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Inside Politics

Italian PM Arrives at White House to Talk Tariffs; Trump: Fed Chair Jerome Powell's "Termination Cannot Come Fast Enough"; Trump Blasts Fed Chair after he Warns of Tariff-Fueled Inflation; 75 Percent of Harvard Medical School Research is Federally Funded; IRS Moving Forward with Plan to Punish Harvard. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired April 17, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Today on "Inside Politics", Chianti Cars and Co-Tour, Italy's Prime Minister is about to arrive at the White House on a mission to scale back the Trump tariffs on European products Americans love, but can she persuade the president to reach a trade truce with the EU.

Plus, Democrats are back in their districts for spring break, testing messages they hope can win them back the House next year. The man who wants to be Speaker House Democratic Leader, Hakeem Jeffries, will be here live. And the hits on Harvard keep coming. We'll break down how President Trump's war on the elite university is impacting life-saving research on cancer and infectious diseases. I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines and "Inside Politics".

And just moments ago, the Italian Leader walked into the White House with President Trump. We are talking about the Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni arriving here for crucial trade talks with President Trump. It is the president's first face-to-face meeting with a European Leader since he announced new tariffs on the EU, with more potentially to come.

Now, Meloni is a kindred spirit, a fellow right-wing populist leader who the White House hopes can act as a bridge with other EU Leaders. I'm going to go right now to Jeff Zeleny, who is at the White House with those familiar flags behind him. Jeff, what is the White House hoping for and expecting with this crucial meeting?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well Dana, this is a meeting that the president is very much anticipating and eagerly awaiting. In fact, they are going to have lunch before they move to their formal meeting. But as you said, Giorgia Meloni, the Leader of Italy, is coming here on behalf of the 27-member United Nations.

Of course, the president has been much less friendly in his descriptions of the EU. He often says the EU was formed to rip off the United States. But the Italian Prime Minister is someone who was at the president's inauguration. It's someone who views immigration and other matters through a similar lens of the Trump of followers, if you will.

So that is why she is here representing the European Union. One a Trump official just a short time ago described her as a valuable interlocutor. So that's how they sort of view her as representing the EU. I mean, the other members of the EU, of course, hope that she is able to make that a 90 day pause on tariffs to the EU, something that's more permanent.

Of course, that was a 20 percent tariff that was put on hold a couple weeks ago, along with a variety of other so called reciprocal tariffs that the president imposed, but there has been a back and forth from autos to other things, a tit-for-tat. That's what the European Union wants to get out of to try and more normalize trading relations. But once again, that personal relationship that the president has with so many leaders that's front and center here today, Dana.

BASH: Yeah, no question. It's going to be really fascinating to see how that plays out. I do want to turn to another really important news event that happened this morning, which is Donald Trump lashing out again at the Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell. He is essentially telling Americans, I mean, the truth about his tariffs when he's lashing out at Powell?

ZELENY: There's no doubt. I mean, Jerome Powell, of course, who is appointed to his position to lead the Federal Reserve by this president during his first term in office. And he has one more year left in his term. He was giving a speech yesterday in Chicago to the Chicago Fed, and effectively warning about the fallout of the sweeping tariff of policies that this president has put in place.

Well, that of course, it outraged the president. He was lashing out on social media, as you can see there this morning, he said specifically that termination cannot come fast enough. As we all know, we've said many times the Chair of the Federal Reserve works independently. They are not an employee of the White House.

But of course, we've seen the president try and push others out. So again, he has about a little over a year left in his term. We'll see if anything changes on that respect. But the bottom line is, the president seems angry at Jerome Powell once again for telling the truth about the fallout of the tariff policies, Dana.

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BASH: Jeff, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Now I want to turn to our guest, the House Minority Leader, Democratic Congressman Hakeem Jeffries of New York. Thank you so much for being here, sir. I do want to start on the meeting that the president is having today shortly, in fact, they're beginning to talk to each other as we speak, and that is about tariffs.

My question for you is whether or not you see any situation where tariffs are a useful tool. President Biden, of course, kept many of President Trump's first term tariffs in effect.

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Dana, great to be with you. As many of us have said on the Democratic side, tariffs when appropriately utilized to promote American competitiveness, American jobs, as well as American businesses, can be one of several tools that the U.S. government can use in ways that are designed to help elevate economic prosperity.

That's not this in terms of what is taking place. Donald Trump is clearly crashing the economy in real time, and he is driving us toward a recession. The manner in which these tariffs have been unleashed on the American people will result in the largest tax increase on everyday Americans since at least 1968 and it's going to cost everyday Americans over $4,000 per year if these tariffs are fully implemented. And that clearly is a problem. That's not what the American people signed up for.

BASH: And I know that you and other Democratic Leaders believe that the best way back to the majority in the House, which is your number one political goal, is to focus on bread-and-butter issues, the economy even sort of an extension of that. Potential cuts to Medicaid is a big part of what you're talking about during this recess, and you will continue to do that, because in 2018 focusing on health care got Democrats the majority back. Is that where you are convinced the Democratic energy is right now?

JEFFRIES: This is not about the 2026, midterm elections. That is going to be important and the political calendar will take care of itself. I've been in the district over the last few days. We had a town hall meeting that was incredibly well attended on Tuesday, and the issues that were brought up to me by the people that I'm to represent include the attacks on Social Security, the attacks on health care, the failures of this administration related to the economy.

And the fact that everyday Americans, in so many cases, are struggling to live pay check to pay check. This is what is on the minds of the American people. Earlier today, as part of the House Democratic Medicaid Matters Day of Action, I met with constituents at a community health center in Bedford Stuyvesant, who -- some of whom were in tears because of the concern that their health care could be ripped away, which would impact their ability to receive the treatment and the medication and the interventions that they need to survive.

This is a life-or-death matter for many of the people that I represent, and folks all across the country, and so that's why, as Democrats, we're focused on these issues.

BASH: Earlier this morning, I was just speaking about this with Jeff Zeleny, the president lashed out at the Fed Chair Jerome Powell. He posted quote Powell's termination cannot come fast enough, and that Powell should lower interest rates. Now, a lot of economists are warning that we are heading for a recession.

I just heard you mention that. You blame the president, but given those warnings, regardless, is the president right that the Fed should lower interest rates?

JEFFRIES: We have monetary policy in this country, and then we have fiscal policy. And the Federal Reserve has been set up to manage monetary policy in a manner that meets the needs of the American people and meets the moment. And Chairman Powell, who is a Republican, is someone who should be left to do independently what the Federal Reserve has been set up to do.

The problem that we confront in this country is that Donald Trump, this is someone who promised to lower costs on day one, not my words, his words. That he was going to deal with the high cost of living in the United States of America. And yet we haven't seen from these Republicans, a single bill, a single executive action or a single administrative order designed to actually lower costs.

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And in fact, we know that costs aren't going down, they're going up. Inflationary pressure is going up. Consumer confidence is going down. The retirement savings is going down, and the economy is going down as well because of the reckless fiscal policies of Donald Trump and House Republicans.

BASH: So, and I totally hear what you're saying about the Fed being independent, but it has not stopped politicians, not just Donald Trump, but politicians on both sides of the aisle for having an opinion on where interest rates should be. You want to weigh in on that?

JEFFRIES: We all want to lower interest rates in terms of the impact that that has on everyday Americans. But that ultimately, of course, is going to be a decision that the Federal Reserve will need to make. It certainly is something that should always be a consideration, but we have a broader issue that we need to confront in America, which is the high cost of living.

That, of course, impacts housing costs, its grocery costs, its child care costs, its insurance costs and its utility costs, and the Republicans haven't done a damn thing to address it, despite all of their talk, all of their promises made to the American people last year. We are ready, as Democrats try to do something in this area, but we have no Republican partners.

BASH: I want to turn to the administration and the judicial branch of the United States government. The Trump Administration is finding ways to defy the courts on a few fronts right now. One is refusing to bring back Kilmar Abrego Garcia. Another example is continuing to block "The Associated Press" from covering the president, despite a judge ordering the White House to treat the AP like other news organizations.

Sir, I know that you have said that the president defying court orders would create a constitutional crisis. Are we there?

JEFFRIES: What we need right now is certainly we're in a crisis across the board, right? I mean, that is obvious for everyone to see. This is not normal. The president is assaulting the economy, assaulting social security, assaulting health care, assaulting the American way of life, and assaulting our democracy. None of this is normal. It is all a crisis now with respect to what we need to deal with in

terms of the situation with the courts. The Supreme Court needs to aggressively enforce its judicial orders. The White House is seeking a confrontation with the courts, then the courts need to lean into that. We will have the back of the courts, and it needs to use all of the tools available to it...

BASH: -- like, for example...

JEFFRIES: -- like contempt in terms of the people within the administration who are failing to adhere to these judicial orders or who are actively continuing to propagate unlawful or unconstitutional actions at Donald Trump's direction.

BASH: But we did see one example of the threat of contempt yesterday, a federal judge did that with regard to those flights that left after he signed an order saying that they shouldn't go. But you think that that threat should go all the way up to the Supreme Court, the highest court in the land?

JEFFRIES: Well, in the case of Mr. Abrego Garcia, there was a Supreme Court decision that was issued. And so, when you have a Supreme Court decision that was issued instructing the administration to facilitate Mr. Abrego Garcia's return, and it seems to me that ultimately the court is going to need to aggressively enforce its decision. When you've got lower courts who have issued orders, then, of course, the jurisdiction will fall with them.

BASH: I just want to make sure I am understanding you right. Are you saying that the Supreme Court should hold President Trump in contempt? Should hold his cabinet members who were involved in this in contempt?

JEFFRIES: Supreme Court needs to take a close look at enforcing its orders, and that is generally going to involve not the president, of course, at this moment in time, but is going to involve cabinet secretaries and other administration officials who are responsible for the actual execution of these orders, or the non-compliance.

BASH: How is that not a constitutional court is...

JEFFRIES: -- going to have to be -- I said that we are in a crisis across the board. We are in a crisis across the board in every way possible, including the assault on the Democratic way of life. Now the courts are going to have to aggressively enforce its -- we are in a crisis.

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We've apparently been in a crisis, I think, since January 20th across the board, we're in an economic crisis. We're in a democracy crisis. We're in a crisis as it relates to the assault on health care, the assault on social security. None of this is normal.

BASH: I just really want to get this in with you, and so forgive me. I just want to take about 30 seconds to play something for you, and that is Patty Morin. She spoke at the White House yesterday about her daughter Rachel. Rachel was killed in Maryland in 2023 by a fugitive from El Salvador. Take a listen, if

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PATTY MORIN, DAUGHTER WAS KILLED BY A FUGITIVE FROM EL SALVADOR: If you're a mother here in the room can you imagine standing there alive, you're alive, and someone comes and puts the hands into your chest and rips out your heart.

That's what it feels like to have a Senator from Maryland who didn't even acknowledge, or barely acknowledge my daughter and the brutal death that she endured, leaving her five children without a mother and now a grand baby without a grandmother, so that he can use my taxpayer money to fly to El Salvador to bring back someone that's not even an American citizen.

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BASH: She, of course, is talking about Senator Chris Van Hollen, who has gone to El Salvador to try to see a different man who has been living in his state. What's your reaction to what you just heard from her?

JEFFRIES: Well, certainly, we deeply sympathize with any American, any individual who has experienced a loss of life of a loved one, certainly those who have lost a child. No parent should ever be in a situation where they have to bury their children. But I think it's also important to zoom out and be very clear, at least from my perspective, that violent felons here unlawfully should be deported.

We need to secure the border. We do have a broken immigration system. It does need to be fixed in a comprehensive and bipartisan way. At the same period of time, we are going to defend dreamers and farm workers and law-abiding immigrant families. That is part of who we are as Americans, both a nation anchored in the rule of law and a nation of immigrants from the very beginning, "E pluribus unum" out of many one.

BASH: Hakeem Jeffries, Democratic Leader of the House of Representatives thank, you so much for being here.

JEFFRIES: Thank you.

BASH: And coming up, President Trump's battle against Harvard could have devastating consequences for Americans with incurable diseases. We'll explain after a quick break.

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BASH: The IRS is threatening Harvard's tax exemption, the Department of Homeland Security says it may block the university from enrolling foreign students and today, researchers, scientists and professors all across Harvard University are seeing their work grind to a halt. But what does that mean outside of the ivory tower? Well, here's the answer from one Harvard researcher.

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PROF. DAVID WALT, HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL PROFESSOR OF BIOLOGICALLY INSPIRED ENGINEERING: My lab specifically works on neuro degenerative diseases, cancer, infectious diseases that have the potential to enable early detection. They can help discover new drugs, and they could potentially lead to cures for these devastating diseases. And so, if we can even solve one of these problems, it will benefit many, many patients.

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BASH: I'm joined by a terrific group of reporters here, Laura Barron- Lopez of "PBS NewsHour", Jasmine Wright of "NTOUS", and Leigh Ann Caldwell of "PUCK". This is so fascinating, just when you look at because, as I like to remind people, this is called "Inside Politics". And the substance of it is, it's really important.

But the way that Harvard, the strategy that they are using to push back and to remind people of what is actually being affected with what the administration is doing. Just for example, this is on their website. We see treatments used by hundreds of thousands of cancer patients, 200,000 pace makers implanted per year, novel treatments for dementia GLP-1 discovery led to weight loss drugs by 12 percent of U.S. adults. It goes on and on and on.

LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, PUCK: So, it's the 101, of politics is to show people how this will impact them. That's why people should care. And this is exactly what they're doing. Harvard has made a decision to stand up to the administration.

They have probably seen in other instances, how the administration continues to side step and to push move the goal post on other deals that they have made with institutions and with law firms.

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And Harvard has one of the biggest endowments. They have money to do this and to fight back. And the administration is not backing down. And so, this is only going to progress and going to get worse.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: There's questions about the latest escalation by the president in terms of directing the IRS to look into whether or not they can revoke the tax-exempt status. Some of the lawyers that I talk to say that it's questionable how effective or how much they have a lot of legal standing in the courts, that they could run into a big challenge there in the court of law.

The administration could as well, attempting to do that. I mean, but we're seeing that President Trump is essentially saying when someone stands up to him, he is going to escalate or accelerate this pressure campaign. Now how effective it will be is a big question, because it seems like Harvard is not backing down. And if anything, Harvard appears to be emboldening, potentially, other institutions and individuals to come out as well.

JASMINE WRIGHT, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, NOTUS: And one thing I've been just interested over the course of the two days, as this has played out, is the domino effect, right? Let's say that the Trump Administration is successful, that they are able to pull Harvard's tax-exempt status, that they are able to basically bar them from allowing foreign students to enrol in Harvard.

What stops a Democrat from doing that if they are elected in four years? Obviously, Trump can't run again. And so, I asked the White House. I said, are you guys not concerned about the domino effect that this could happen if you know the party change or the control of Congress and the White House changes sides, and one person told me we're doing the right and proper thing.

If a Democrat wants to do the opposite of the right thing, then they'll have to answer for that. So very clearly, the White House is kind of shrugging off the domino effect. Basically, it's kind of Trump's world. It's what Trump cares about now, and they really don't care about what happens later on.

BASH: And let's look specifically at Harvard and where the federal funding goes. It does make up 68 percent of outside revenue, even though they do have a big endowment. 75 percent of Harvard Medical School Research is federally funded. The School of Public Health and School of Engineering are also top recipients of federal dollars.

And on that note, there was a -- there's a story that CNN has right now online about Harvard researchers saying that they might have to lay off workers and euthanize research animals due to this funding freeze, which that the IRS revoking tax exempt status. That's a threat. The funding freeze is happening.

CALDWELL: Yeah. So, they had -- they have all this money, because this research that they are doing, is expansive and expensive. And in order for the state-of-the-art research to happen, not as a Harvard but at many universities around the country, they need federal dollars to help do this because the private institution alone does not have the resources.

And so, this is not only a chilling effect, but it also is a has a major -- you know, kind of like iceberg effect, I guess, on science -- on science and scientific research moving forward.

WRIGHT: Can we just talk about the PR? I mean, there are very few things that get people as enraged as euthanizing animals. Harvard is not pulling its punches when it's trying to tell the American people that it is not just us, the elites, who are going to suffer for this. It is everybody. It is your parents who go to Boston to go get cancer research.

BASH: Yeah.

WRIGHT: So, they're really trying to show the American public that it is all of us.

BASH: And we have just on that exact point, Jasmine, we have kind of a show -- this is a scroll through what you see if you click on the Harvard website about just what you were saying. Leigh Ann about this is kind of politics 101.

They understand that this is how -- this is the sort of face that you need to put forward, particularly because part of the reason why this is happening is that Harvard and other institutions, Ivy League Institutions, in particular, they got slammed for not just these protests that were happening, but even well before October 7th for being elitist and out of touch and indoctrinating students with quote, unquote leftist ideology.

BARRON-LOPEZ: Well, this is also part of the president and Republicans larger efforts to essentially create an ideological litmus test and to create cultural litmus tests for institutions across the board, be it Harvard and other universities, be it big law, be it the media -- you know that whether or not institutions in America are repeating the president's ideological beliefs, and if they aren't, then he is going to go after them.

And that's what you're seeing, and that's a connective tissue as well as the attack on science, which both of you talked about, because you're seeing that not just Harvard, research is being impacted. NIH, HHS, CDC, all of the research across the board that leads to break throughs and all of the whether it's cancer or obesity drugs, it starts at these institutions.

BASH: Yeah, it really does. Everybody stand-by when we come back President Trump threatens the Fed Chair, as we were talking about with quote termination for not cutting interest rates.