Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

3 Judges Over 24 Hours Question if Trump White House is Defying Court Orders; Appeals Court: Trump Admin Handling of Case is "Shocking"; MD Senator Meets with Mistakenly Deported Man in El Salvador; Sanders Team Says Oligarchy Tour Drew 200K Attendees; David Hogg: Fixing Democrat's Brand Means Ousting Some Members. Aired 12- 12:30p ET

Aired April 18, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Today on "Inside Politics" deportation duel Democratic Senator meets face-to-face with the man mistakenly deported to a maximum-security prison in El Salvador. But what happens to Kilmar Abrego Garcia now the Trump Administration is sending a clear message. He's not coming back to the U.S.

Plus, a shift and a new warning from the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, says the U.S. may need to quote, move on from Ukrainian peace talks if there's no progress in the coming days, leaving people across the globe wondering if America is about to abandon a key ally.

And fighting the Fourth Estate the Trump Administration is taking on "The Associated Press" in a court case with far reaching consequences for Americans who want the president and his team pressed four answers. Sam Donaldson, who set the standard for tough questions in the White House, is my guest this hour. I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines and "Inside Politics".

First up, the White House versus the courts. We're following multiple cases today focused on President Trump's executive power, as three judges over the course of 24 hours, openly question whether the Trump Administration is blatantly disobeying court orders. CNN's Katelyn Polantz is tracking all of these developments. Katelyn, today really this morning, it's such a critical time on this issue?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Dana, quite a tense moment for the separation of powers. And what is happening in court today we have a number of things that we are watching. There is that situation with Abrego Garcia and the courts there saying, warning, essentially, the administration be careful to ignore court orders at your own peril.

This could spell the end of democracy, and that is not hyperbole for those judges. There's also a situation where the administration is trying to stop criminal contempt proceedings when they did not turn planes around that were carrying migrants to El Salvador, when a judge told them to do so, they've gone to an appeals court in Washington. We're waiting to see what happens there.

And then two hearings this morning, one we heard just wrapped up about the White House press pool that hearing was about the First Amendment protections the press pool has? How much the White House is able to change there? And then another hearing, quite a significant one about the cutbacks that the administration is making to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

They cut about 90 percent of the staff, more than 1000 people notifying them yesterday, and we are just getting word from the court. The two things happened. There were people working 36 hours, being told they needed to work very fast, being yelled at by a DOGE staff member.

And that there were concerns that the cutbacks of the CFPB Dana might not be in line with what the court has said was allowed to happen at that agency. But there is a judge looking at this right now, and our colleagues over at the courthouse, they are saying that this judge is making orders from the bench saying these cutbacks of the CFPB, they cannot happen right now.

This is all about whether the administration is complying following court orders, and the judge is telling them you can't cut back people right now. You cannot shut their computers off. Today is not the last day for all of the employees of the CFPB who yesterday were told they were losing their jobs as of today.

So much happening, it's really a moving story, because it is a bigger question about the Constitution. Is the administration following it, and are they following court orders?

BASH: Sure is. And keep us posted on that CFPB hearing, it sounds very dramatic and like it's still -- it's still moving. Katelyn, thank you so much. Appreciate it. And this morning, the president weighed in on Senator Chris Van Hollen's trip to El Salvador, which we have been reporting on.

He said, Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland looked like a fool yesterday, standing in El Salvador begging for the attention of the fake news media or anyone called him a grand standard. I'm joined by a terrific group of reporters, CNN's Priscilla Alvarez, Mario Parker of "Bloomberg" and Dave Weigel of "Semafor".

I do think that whatever bit of irony is left in the universe for Donald Trump to call somebody a grand standard because they're doing an event with that -- you know maybe was meant to get information, but was also meant to be seen for the media. That is -- you know that speaks for itself, I think.

[12:05:00]

But Priscilla, one of the things that we want to know right now is the what now? Because Van Hollen saw him, he's coming back, and we're still in this stand still.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, there are a couple of unanswered questions, but there is one very important question that has been answered by the El Salvadorian President Nayib Bukele after these images came out yesterday evening, he said very bluntly that Abrego Garcia will remain in Salvadoran custody.

What remains unanswered is what was the substance of the conversation between the Senator and Abrego Garcia? And how did that meeting come about? Because if you recall earlier in the day, yesterday, the Senator had gone to see caught that mega prison in El Salvador. He was denied access. That is where Abrego Garcia along with other migrants who were removed from the United States, were being held.

And then suddenly, fast forward a few hours, and these images came up. Now we should also talk about the way that these images were distributed. The first time we saw one was actually from the El Salvadoran President, who just on Monday, was meeting with President Donald Trump in the Oval Office.

And in some ways sort of trolling the Senator meeting with Abrego Garcia, saying, for example, look how healthy Abrego Garcia looks after all of the hysteria, he sorts of frames it as over the CECOT prison, which there are many reports of abuses there.

And it's notable too, the way that Abrego Garcia was dressed. He's dressed in casual attire that is not the attire that is worn by prisoners. He's wearing a baseball hat. We know that their heads are shaped when they go into the prison. So, then we saw the Senator post the photo.

So just the distribution of the images and the announcement of the meeting, in and of itself, really capture the moment we're in so much divisiveness and just two completely different echo chambers as to what the story has been about.

BASH: And the fact that Bukele tweeted, among the things he tweeted was, I love chess.

ALVAREZ: Yes.

BASH: That speaks to the sort of the manipulation on both sides, frankly, of the imagery and of what is actually going on down there, and what the real law is going forward, which is still murky, because the administration obviously still says he's not going anywhere. He's not leaving El Salvador. He's not coming back here, I should say. And that is what the El Salvadorian President says as well.

MARIO PARKER, MANAGING EDITOR, U.S. ECONOMY & GOVERNMENT, BLOOMBERG: No, absolutely. We've seen this with the Trump Administration, kind of flouting some of the legal standings or legal verdicts that have come in so far, whether from the Supreme Court, the appellate court, et cetera.

We saw the reaction from White House officials. Dan Scavino, no with the I emoji. Kush Desai with a statement as well saying casting Democrats is the party that protects illegal migrants or non- documented migrants. And then also you got Dan Scavino -- and Stephen Chang as well. Look, the White House may not have been itching for this fight, but it did land at a fortuitous time for it. Any minute that the White House is talking about this --

BASH: Yeah.

PARKER: -- an issue that is stronger for the president politically, that he accounts -- that he attributes to his winning the election in November is a minute that they're not talking about the DOW being down 8 percent this year, the S&P being down as well. If the proposition to voters was that I would give you safety and prosperity. The prosperity right now is drawing mixed reviews.

BASH: Yeah.

PARKER: The safety at least is well, he is standing up for us, even in the face of judge's orders.

BASH: Yeah, and Democrats are well aware of that, which is why every time you talk to a Democrat, they turn the conversation back to the economy. And I just on that note, just on the imagery of it all, this is a tweet that came from the White House on the one side of your screen.

And of the tweet, I believe we have it. You see, there you go. You see President Trump meeting with the mother of somebody who was murdered in -- actually in Maryland, by a fugitive from El Salvador. And then on the -- excuse me from Venezuela. And then on the right, of course, you have the Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen in El Salvador meeting with Abrego Garcia.

DAVID WEIGEL, POLITICS REPORTER, SEMAFOR: Yes, they're happy to make that contrast, although what else are they saying that Garcia is not somebody that they can talk about the long criminal record of or the murder record of, he doesn't have that on his record. He's not -- he's not been accused of the of the crimes that they're happier to talk about.

The administration, as you were saying, they do want to the focus on immigration whenever possible, but they have overreach before. They over reach in the first term. Family separation had some of the same principles behind it, which is, we're going to make it very painful and very obviously painful if you're an illegal immigrant wants to come to America, don't come and there was a political backlash to it.

There are ways to enforce and create these standards for keeping people out of the country. That does cause a backlash. The part I was in Pennsylvania this week, and this was coming up organically, talking to people, and the fact that they defied the Supreme Court's unanimous decision that came up is that --

BASH: Right.

WEIGEL: -- it comes up because that's rare --

BASH: So, it -- (CROSSTALK)

WEIGEL: -- because it should be.

BASH: This is breaking --

WEIGEL: That broke through. But also, Democrats are very aware that the idea of deportation moratorium which Biden did in the beginning of the presidency, or the idea of unwinding everything Trump does, even opposing the wall.

[12:10:00]

They don't talk like that anymore, but cases like this, the administration has, but they both been kind of changing what the best possible narrative is depending on the day. That's an example of it of this. We are much more comfortable talking about a murder case that is about this case.

ALVAREZ: Well, and Abrego Garica is so much more than just the one case. The reason, for example, Joe Rogan talked about these flights to El Salvador in the context of everyone else, and all the other anecdotes that were coming out of people who were sent to a maximum- security prison in El Salvador who we have learned over time didn't really have a basis for being there. And so, it's like this is part of the unraveling of that.

BASH: I want to get to -- yes, and I want to get to an appellate court order that we saw yesterday from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit. And this is written, by the way, by Judge Harvey Wilkinson, who was a Republican appointee. He was appointed by Ronald Reagan.

The government is asserting a right to stash away residents of this country in foreign prisons without the semblance of due process that is the foundation of our constitutional order. Further, it claims, in essence, that because it has rid itself of custody, that there is nothing that can be done. This should be shocking, not only to judges, but to the intuitive sense of liberty that Americans far removed from court houses still hold dear.

PARKER: And yeah, you're saying that Kaitlan Collins, last night, spoke to Tom Homan, and he kind of -- kind of dodged the question as well whether or not he had the authority to bring Abrego Garcia -- Abrego back to the United States Senate. Well, he is a El Salvadorian citizen.

So, what you're saying from the administration, again, this has been a through line with several cases right now is kind of like a winking to the court in some ways this, oh, we don't -- we don't have custody. We can't return him back. Oh, we -- you know we're allowing this to happen, or we -- this is out of our hands.

And so, you're saying this administration refused to take like, a loss or admit something, and that's the political risk involved as well, whether or not voters and Americans can stomach all of this. BASH: Right. And the question that it's boiling down to that this appellate court was trying to make is it's not about necessarily who this person is or what this person did. It's about the process by which he was sent back to El Salvador. Coming up, the AOC Bernie Sanders cross country road show is packing up for now. They drew enormous crowds across the West Coast. Is the resistance coming back to life? We'll discuss next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Donald Trump has taken us into an unprecedented moment in modern American history, and we have got to respond in an unprecedented way.

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): Oligarchy or democracy. And we are here today because we choose democracy, we choose freedom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: That was Senator Bernie Sanders and Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez rallying before a packed arena in Missoula, Montana. The latest in for now, last stop on a cross-country tour, drawing eye popping crowds, electrifying Democrats in the first 100 days of Trump's presidency.

My panel is back now. Dave Weigel, you were on that tour for a little bit. You did at least one story out of it. You were in Colorado, and I just want to put up the crowd sizes. This is according to the Sanders campaign -- Sanders camp --

WEIGEL: Yeah.

BASH: -- Los Angeles, 36,000 Denver, 34,000. I mean, really big crowds. Even Missoula, Montana I was just talking about that 9000 people. These are -- I mean, California is obviously not a red state, but Colorado is purple, and the rest are red.

WEIGEL: Yes, and there are blue dots in them, but these are all bigger crowds. And the campaigns always like to say this, I guess operations is not running for anything. Like to say the crowd is bigger than expected, but they really were, and they also were finding that half or more of the people showing up at these events had never shown up to a Bernie Sanders event before.

So, you're starting -- these are largely complimentary to what Democrats are doing. You're starting to see more of an ask from Sanders. Just in the past week, he endorsed -- he's been saying at these rallies, who wants more progressives to run for office as Democrats or Independents.

This week, he endorsed a candidate in Michigan, Abdullah Sayed, who is to the left of the field, to the left of what Chuck Schumer want to run in Michigan. So, he's trying to transition this crowd energy, which Democrats are generally happy with, with progressive energy, which they're a little bit worried about.

BASH: Yeah. Well, who's worried about?

WEIGEL: I would mention Chuck Schumer.

BASH: Yeah.

WEIGEL: He is --

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: That's --

WEIGEL: -- Chuck Schumer's model candidate --

BASH: Yeah.

WEIGEL: -- wins them to stay in a room and raise money and not necessarily say, for example, as Syed does, as -- Sayed does, that we need Medicare for all right now, or that Israel's committing a genocide in Gaza. He wants a different kind of candidate. But Chuck Schumer is not getting crowds of 20,000 people, and Bernie Sanders is.

BASH: Yeah, I mean, that's really the key. And you kind of alluded to this Faiz Shakir, who is a long time Sanders advisor. He's released the following because, like any good operation, they register people who come in. 67 percent of the people who went new to the Bernie list, 32 percent not registered Democrats. 7 percent registered Republicans.

[12:20:00]

42 percent no college degree, which is really, really key, because those voters have been fleeing the Democratic Party and voted big time for Donald Trump.

PARKER: Yeah, and remember, if we go back to 2016 a lot of the discourse was about Donald Trump and the overlap between the Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders voters. If Democrats look at the election results from November in which he swept all of the swing states, won a popular vote, et cetera.

They know that they have to go back and figure out a way to get those voters. Is it a progressive message? We don't know. Is it -- is it the message that Gavin Newsom and Gretchen Whitmer are trying to sell as well, the more traditional attack a little bit toward, a little bit closer toward the center that's to be seen as well.

And today's point, I mean, just the fact that Democrats are starting to stir some type of excitement. This is the first positive sign that we've seen in the last six or seven months.

BASH: Right. And it's -- I mean, we say progressive, they are obviously very proud progressives, but they're populists. And so, this is the horseshoe, right? This is the -- these are the people who are excited about fighting the oligarchy and some of the other positions that they have for the working people. They just don't like the other parts of the populist agenda that on the right side of the aisle that Donald Trump is for.

ALVAREZ: And the message that they have been delivering in these events is actually quite simple. It's the point about the oligarchy. It's the point that the system is broken, that it's about the wealthy being enriched. I remember when I was covering the Harris Campaign, something that came up so much in my conversation with campaign officials is we have to peel off these voters in these rural areas and that lean red because we think that they're getting tired of Donald Trump.

Now, of course, the election results didn't bear out what their working theory was over the course of those months, but some part of it is still alive, clearly, because of the places you mentioned, where they're having these events, where they are trying to, as you note, pull back some of these voters who may not like what they're seeing with Donald Trump so far, and with the economy where it is, can they get in there early?

BASH: One of the sorts of dynamics you kind of hit on this talking about the kind of Democrat that Chuck Schumer would like to run and so forth. David Hogg, who is the Vice Chair of the Democratic Party, separately in his -- through his own organization, separate from the party, he is suggesting that people who are Democrats, who are elected officials who don't support the things that, like gun control and things like that, that they should be challenged in primaries. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID HOGG, VICE CHAIR, DNC: Here's the deal. You can have a great script, but if you have actors that are awful at their jobs, it doesn't matter how good that script is. People say, well, David, is this just out with the old and in with the new? I would say, no, this is out with the ineffective and in with the effective.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WEIGEL: Yeah, effective. And you hear this from grass roots Democrats too effective to them in the last few weeks has been are you convincing me that you're fighting Donald Trump? Are you making an argument that breaks through the noise, which is not the same skill set as somebody who's in the House for 20 years, rises to committee status?

And the Gerry Connolly situation, Gerry Connolly becoming Oversight Chair, and not AOC. The fight in the party about that. And I can guess which side Hogg took was, who can get attention in this job? Who is convincing? Who is compelling? And right now, the oligarchy message is not what we are talking about in Washington this week.

Congress is out. They're going to come back and fight over this budget a few weeks. But that's part of it. Who can be there and be credible and not look like they're struggling to say what the Democratic message is. That's what David Hogg was talking about.

BASH: He is, but he's also talking about Democrat --

WEIGEL: Yeah.

BASH: -- Democrats taking on Democrats, and people like James Carville saying -- you know --

WEIGEL: Yes.

BASH: -- spending $20 million for a Democrat to take on another Democrat. How about fighting Republicans?

PARKER: No, absolutely. And this continues to be a continuation of the argument that we saw with the problem the Democrats were struggling with when Joe Biden dropped out of the race a little over a year ago. This passing of the torch within the party in a way that Democrats struggle with that in a way that Republicans just simply don't.

And so, the Democrat-on-Democrat attacks, if you will. I mean, there is a question as to whether or not this taps out some of what we just spoke about a few minutes ago, some of this energy. You don't want to confuse the voters. You don't want to confuse the base as well. And you also want to do some type of outreach. Democrat-on-Democrat campaign still signals to the public that this is a party in disarray.

BASH: Yeah. Although we've certainly seen a lot of Republican primaries over the past. I don't know what 15 years or so now. OK, don't go anywhere. Up next, he is a rookie diplomat leading talks to end wars in Ukraine and Gaza, negotiating a nuclear deal with Iran. Who is Steve Witkoff? And how did he a mask so much power so quickly we have brand new reporting next?

[12:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: Shortly after meeting in Paris with European and Ukrainian officials, Secretary of State Marco Rubio warned if Ukraine and Russia don't agree to end the war in the coming days, the United States needs to move on.