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Inside Politics

Pope Called for End to Wars in Gaza, Ukraine and Sudan in Easter Speech Just Hours Before his Death; Vatican: Pope Passed Away in his Room at his Residence at Santa Marta; Pope Francis Dies at Age 88; Biden on Francis: "He was the People's Pope"; Hegseth Shared Details of Yemen Strike in 2nd Signal Chat. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired April 21, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Hello and welcome to "Inside Politics". I'm Dana Bash. Somber as it is in much of the world, after breaking news that is rippling across the globe that Pope Francis has died. The echo of the bells in St. Peter's Square sounding a final note on a remarkable life, the pope passed away just hours after tending to his flock on Easter.

Francis' death ends a prolonged final month's struggle with his health. Francis was a reformer, a pope who never ran from taboo conversations. Over his 12-year papacy, he tore down walls between dogma and the living world. The first Latin American Pontiff, he made migrants a priority, even when it made opponents of presidents. He also opened church doors to the LGBTQ community.

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LATE. POPE FRANCIS, ROMAN LEADER OF CATHOLIC CHURCH: Dear brothers and sisters, Happy Easter.

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BASH: Even in his final hours, and as you saw there, his final Easter message, the pope implored the world not to turn their back on migrants. His death leaves the world more than a billion Catholics without a spiritual shepherd, and it leaves the church to choose which road it will travel.

The same, more inclusive one walked by a once in a century pontiff, or the road of tradition and conservatism demanded by his rivals. CNN's Ben Wedeman is there in St. Peters Square in Vatican City. Ben, what's the sense at this hour?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think the sense is one of sadness. This is a pope who, in the last 12 years has really grown in the hearts of many people who saw him as a pope of the people, a pope who was concerned by the down trod -- for the downtrodden, the poor, the forgotten, the migrants. His first trip as pontiff back in 2013 was to the Island of Lampedusa, which is the sort of the receiving point for tens of thousands of migrants who have made that dangerous trip across the Mediterranean. He was somebody who spoke not in sort of the arcane language of the Catholic Church, but spoke in the language of ordinary people.

Now, when it was announced this morning that he had died at 07:35 local time. It was met with shock, because, of course, just two weeks ago, he got out of hospital, out of Rome's Gemelli Hospital, where it was thought he had recovered from a case of double pneumonia. The Vatican doctors, or the doctors who were treating him, had told him to rest for two months at least.

But what was obvious, certainly, what we saw yesterday, from what I think was his busiest public day, was a pope who refused to simply stop and rest and stay in bed. He came out in the pope mobile, as he has done so many times before. He went around St. Peter's Square, he did address the crowd, although he wasn't able to read out his message.

Before that, he met with U.S. Vice President, J.D. Vance. This was somebody who clearly wanted to continue to serve as pope. He made it clear that unlike his predecessor, Benedict the 16 he wasn't going to resign. He was insisted. He was insistent upon serving, and it was thought that he would struggle.

He would try his hardest to at least survive this jubilee year, where it was expected that more than 20 million tourists would come to Rome, to the Vatican City to mark that year. But it appears that, that was not the case. He passed away as we heard from the Vatican at 07:35 a.m. local time, Dana.

BASH: Ben, thank you so much for that reporting. Really appreciate it. For now, for more on the life and legacy of Pope Francis. I'm joined by Kim Daniels. She's the Director of the Initiative on Catholic Social Thought and Public Life at Georgetown. He really charted his own course as pope, including rejecting a lot of the grandeur of the role.

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In 2013, he made headlines for carrying his own luggage onto a plane. And when he was asked why he did that, he said, I was carrying it because that's what I've always done when I travel. I carry it. Apparently, he had a few things inside, a razor, a prayer book, an appointment book, a book to read. It just kind of really gives those details give us an insight into the man that he was.

KIM DANIELS, DIRECTOR OF INITIATIVE ON CATHOLIC SOCIAL THOUGHT AND PUBLIC LIFE AT GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Absolutely, he was such a humble man in so many ways. I was there when he was elected pope 12 years ago, and I remember this moment of humility where he came out on the balcony and he asked for the people's blessing. Before he gave us his own, he asked people to pray with the three prayers that all Catholics know, our Father, the Hail Mary, the glory be. And just a simple, direct, really, just a wonderful vision at that time, and we saw what would happen right the 12 years going forward mark by this humility, marked by the idea of a church that is going out to the margins, that is reaching for the poor and vulnerable. Pope. Francis' legacy, I think just so fittingly, you know his pontificate ends yesterday.

Again, speaking from that balcony to the people giving them his Easter blessing, where he would want to be working and with the people.

BASH: I want to now bring in Elisabetta Pique, who is a CNN Vatican Analyst and also Author of "Pope Francis: Life and Revolution". Elisabetta, you have known Pope Francis for what, over 20 years he was a friend of yours. Talk about what he was like, up close and personal the way you knew him.

ELISABETTA PIQUE, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, I think one, beside all the things that you are hearing now, you know this humble person, his simple person, his simple way of life, also, I think one thing that one something very important, was his sense of humor, always, you know, always sense of humor and always, even living in difficult times.

This is someone, this is a pope that had a lot of -- he lived a lot of crises in Argentina, being, you know, a young provincial of the Jesuits during the dictatorship in Argentina. He always had a lot of difficult moments, then lot of difficult moments being Archbishop of Buenos Aires.

Also, difficult moments with being adjacent when he had this exile in Cordoba, and were in that moment something very interesting in that period that lasted almost two years, he read the biography of all the popes, like feeling someday, maybe he would become a pope. But this sense of humor, he would always and I can say it, you know, as someone that I had the privilege to be close to him.

He baptized being Archbishop of Buenos Aires, my two children, Juan Pablo and Carolina. He would also always be very close and so also someone, an extraordinary man that being, anyway, now you know, 88 years old. I've always seemed someone so young, so young, so open minded when I knew him more than 20 years ago, you know.

Well, he's a -- you know, I said, this is a real, you know, he's a priest with who I could be friend, because it's not that I was, you know, a profound Catholic person, et cetera. I told him the first time that I met him, I don't understand much about church affairs, and he would be interested also -- maybe also because of that, because he was very interested to listen what other people say about church, what other people criticize about church.

I was, and I'm still, are very critic of some things of the Catholic Church, and he would always be open to listen, to listen the opinions of other people and listen more if these other people would think differently.

BASH: Yeah, that's really, really interesting. Kim, I want to go back to you and talk about his passion and his advocacy for migrants and refugees globally. He made his first papal trip in July of 2013 to the Italian island, where many refugee, boats were arriving for sanctuary after fleeing conflict in the Middle East and also from North Africa. I want to play what he said there.

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FRANCIS: Has any one of us grieved for the death of these brothers and sisters. Has any one of us wept for these persons who were on the boat? For the young mothers carrying their babies, for these men who were looking for a means of supporting their families? We are a society which has forgotten how to weep, how to experience compassion, suffering with others. The globalization of indifference has taken from us the ability to weep.

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BASH: Kim, that phrase, the globalization of indifference, it was kind of a battle against that, that became his papal mission for 12 years.

DANIELS: Absolutely. I mean, I think that really gets to the heart of what Pope Francis wanted to advocate for and what he stood for his vision for the church was keeping the individual faces of people right in front of us. He often said that reality is greater than ideas. It's not about abstract, it's about looking at the person in front of us, migrants and refugees, the poorest of the poor, all the poor and vulnerable, and saying, how can we show mercy?

How can we accompany those people? And he challenged us. He challenged us to not fall prey to that indifference that you talk about.

BASH: Just I know we're going to be able to spend a lot of time in the hours and days to come learning about -- more about who he was and the impact he had around the world, far beyond Catholicism. And I appreciate you, Kim and Elisabetta as well from Vatican City, beginning to share some of the remembrances. Thank you.

And coming up, we are going to talk to a former ambassador to the Vatican who was there representing the Biden Administration. Of course, he was one of only two Catholic presidents in America. And also, from St. Peter Square to Mexico City bells ring out at churches around the world to mark the passing of Pope Francis.

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BASH: Wall Street is bleeding. Right now, the markets are having a free fall day. The DOW is off more than 1000 points. The other two indexes have watched 3 percent of their value get erased. This is all driven by the president's unrelenting attacks on the Fed Chair Jerome Powell, and, of course, the president's trade war and his demand that Powell lower interest rates, and that's relating to the trade war. Now we're going to continue to track the markets and what it means for your money throughout the hour, but now we are going to return to our top story, and that is, of course, the death of Pope Francis. Former President Joe Biden was only the second Catholic President of the United States.

The first, of course, was John F. Kennedy. This morning, Biden reacted to the passing of Pope Francis. He wrote, quote, he was a loving pastor and challenging teacher who reached out to different faiths. He commanded us to fight for peace and protect our planet from a climate crisis. He advocated for the voiceless and powerless.

Above all, he was a pope for everyone. He was the people's pope, a light of faith, hope and love. Joining me now is Joe Donnelly, who was the Ambassador to the Holy See under President Biden and is a Former Democratic Senator from Indiana. Thank you so much for being here, Mr. Ambassador. I want to assure our viewers you are not driving. You promised that you pulled over the car to talk to us for this breaking news.

JOE DONNELLY, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE HOLY SEE: Yeah.

BASH: And I appreciate it. You are the most recent ambassador to the Holy See. Talk about your meetings and experiences with Pope Francis.

DONNELLY: He was everything you thought he was, and more, he was one of the smartest people you would ever meet, and also one of the most humorous kinds, extraordinarily focused on the poor and on the marginalized that was, that was who he looked out for every single day, and he had a very special relationship with President Biden.

The two of them were great friends. We were together at the G7 in June of last year in Italy, and when President Biden and the pope got together, they spent the first 10 minutes basically catching up like old friends.

BASH: That's really interesting. I don't necessarily think that's typical, but of course, it's not typical for a U.S. President to be a Catholic, and I guess as you're describing, it's not typical for a pope to be as accessible as Pope Francis was.

DONNELLY: Right. They were great friends. I think part of the enjoyment of the day was that the Pope's translator was actually from Scranton, Pennsylvania, which President Biden loved. So, it was a wonderful day, but what the focus was always with Pope Francis was, how can we take care of those who need the most and who have the least?

BASH: You, Mr. Ambassador, were a senator when Pope Francis made a historic trip here to Washington in 2015, he became the first pontiff to address a joint session of Congress.

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I want to play a bit of that speech for you and for our viewers.

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FRANCIS: -- you and others, as you will have them do unto you. This rule points us in a clear direction. Let us treat others with the same passion and compassion with which we want to be treated. Let us seek for others the same possibilities which we seek for ourselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: In that image that we saw with the pope speaking, we, of course, saw John Boehner, who is who is a devout Catholic, over one shoulder, and as we were talking about Joe Biden, who was vice president at the time, over the other, as I said, you were a senator, the significance of that visit and that message was what?

DONNELLY: It was staggering. It was in effect, Dana, coming to the center of power in the United States, maybe in the world, and speaking to everyone, telling them, look, you have to also look out for all among us, for those who don't think they have a chance, for those who are struggling, it's your job, it's your responsibility to step up for them.

And if you remember, he left the capital and his little Fiat 500 with all the big black suburban surrounding him, and he headed to a food pantry so that he could help distribute food to the homeless. And that was the message of Pope Francis, and that was his life.

BASH: You know on that there was another big sort of legacy that he leaves, one of many, I should say, which is that he was a church reformer. There were a lot, I guess is what happens with any reformer who were critical of him because he had more progressive views, allowing priests to bless same sex couples in certain situations.

He spoke out against climate change. He said transgender people could be baptized. What was it like being sort of on the inside, being a Catholic, being a sort of political representative for the United States as you witnessed the criticism that he got for these stances? I think we lost the ambassador's audio.

We will try to get him back, but if we don't, I just want to say thank you to Former Ambassador Joe Donnelly for being here and joining us during this breaking news. Don't go away, because in minutes, the Former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi will be here to remember the pope who welcomed her at the Vatican when bishops here at home, certainly in California, were shunning her because of her stance on abortion.

Plus, how Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is defending questions about new encrypted text chains with his wife and his brother. We're going to tell you more about the new revelations when we come back.

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BASH: This weekend, chaos and Deja vu at the Pentagon. There is now another scandal involving signal, the encrypted messaging app and plans about military strikes. "The New York Times" first reported that Pete Hegseth, the Defense Secretary, revealed sensitive details about strikes on Yemen on the app, which included that text exchange included his wife and his personal lawyer.

Plus, three senior aides to Hegseth who were put on leave last week have now been fired. And perhaps the most damning part of all this is a former aide and close ally took to POLITICO and wrote a piece decrying that it was, quote, a month from hell inside the Pentagon.

Here's what John Ullyot, who is a former spokesman now former of the Pentagon said, from leaks of sensitive operational plans to mask firings, the dysfunction is now a major distraction for the president, who deserves better from his senior leadership. Given that it's hard to see Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth remaining in his role for much longer.

Now, to be clear, the White House is saying that the president is sticking by the embattled Pentagon Chief and Hegseth went on the offense this morning.

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PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: This is what the media does. They take anonymous sources from disgruntled former employees, and then they try to slash and burn people and ruin their reputations. Not going to work with me because we're changing the Defense Department, putting the Pentagon back in the hands of war fighters and anonymous smears from disgruntled former employees on old news, doesn't matter.

This group right here, full of hoisters that peddle anonymous sources from leakers with access to grind.

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BASH: I have some very smart reporters here at the table with me to discuss this, CNN's Stephen Collinson and Natasha Bertrand, who covers the Pentagon for us. Let's just start where Pete Hegseth ended there, which is the people who were fired, and presumably the people he is talking about.

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