Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Special Envoy Steve Witkoff Under Consideration to Replace Mike Waltz as Trump's National Security Adviser; Sources: National Security Adviser Waltz to Leave in Coming Days. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired May 01, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Welcome to "Inside Politics". I'm Dana Bash in Washington, and we are following breaking news. National Security Adviser Mike Waltz is expected to leave his post in the Trump Administration as National Security Advisor. It is the first top staff shakeup of President Trump's second term.

Of course, Waltz has been in a precarious position with the president after he accidentally added a reporter to a group chat about upcoming military strikes. We're going to get right to this. Here with me now is CNN's Kaitlan Collins alongside CNN's Jeff Zeleny, Dasha Burns of POLITICO and Mario Parker of Bloomberg. Kaitlin, what are you hearing from your sources?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I mean, this is a surprise to no one at this table who has been covering the White House. Mike Waltz has not had good standing with the White House ever since Signal Gate happened when he inadvertently added a reporter to that group chat, and then later sensitive military information was shared on this group chat.

He's really never had super strong standing inside the White House. I mean, I remember this morning, someone predicted to me, back during the transition, before Trump even took office, that Mike Waltz would likely be the first one to go. And now he is marking the first major staff departure of President Trump's second term.

And really, his job has kind of been in limbo all week. We had heard earlier this week that something was going on with him. Officials insisted to us yesterday that his job was safe. But there was a moment that CNN saw on Tuesday when the president was going to Michigan on his 100 days in office.

And Mike Waltz, we noticed, traveled on Marine One with him, but 10 minutes later, you see it Joint Base Andrews. That's his figure. He does not get on Air Force One. It's only about a 10-minute flight. So, it's extremely odd to take the helicopter flight and then not actually go on the trip.

I was told he was not supposed to go on the trip, and so people raised questions about what this moment met. So, we've been asking White House officials about it, and essentially just got to a point where he didn't have a lot of confidence, not of the president, not of his senior staff.

And he was told, I was told, earlier this week that his time as the national security advisor had come to an end, and it was time for him to leave. And now we are told that he will be departing, and so will his top deputy.

BASH: So, the world got to know him through his very, very unfortunate error of adding Jeffrey Goldberg of the Atlantic to Signal Gate. But just by way of background, this is an important sort of detail, which is that, first of all, Mike Waltz is a very serious person. He is a former green beret. He's a four-time bronze star winner.

That all happened that service, military service, is obviously well before he ran for Congress. As part of his sort of approach to the world, it was much more hawkish historically than anybody around President Trump in the current form. And so, my understanding and I'm curious what you all are hearing is that never mind Signal Gate.

It was that very fundamental mistrust of him and skepticism of him and his perspective about the world that was also problematic from the start.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: It absolutely was, and I think Signal Gate was the reason for his departure, but not really what led up to it. And one of those pictures we just showed so interesting of Susie Wiles, the White House Chief of Staff, despite their Florida roots, many, many Floridians inside the West Wing, including those two.

I'm told that she has not been at odds with him, necessarily, but not impressed by his work. He is a hawk. There's no doubt about it. I mean, there's been a lot of flexibility among some advisors. Marco Rubio also comes to mind. I mean, long before he joined this administration. He too would have been in the hawkish side of the Republican Party, but this is the Trump era, so Waltz definitely did not necessarily fit this.

But he was qualified in many other ways, and a lot of Republicans who I talked to at the transition were actually happy he was in the West Wing because they thought that he would sort of bring stability and things. Yes.

ZELENY: But back to that point that Kaitlin showed that video is so fascinating. What it doesn't show the Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth is on the plane, and he flew to Michigan with the president. And I'm told the president, throughout the day, embraced the defense secretary yesterday at the Cabinet meeting.

It was so clear. He -- so, when you sort of step back to this, why Waltz not Hegseth? Because, as Kaitlin said, he invited Jeffrey Goldberg into the chat, and that was sort of seen as the original sin.

COLLINS: Can I just say that that was captured by our photographers, who were excellent, Jay McMichael and Christine Lan, who were there and spotted this and noticed that he didn't get on. Obviously, they are just as good as reporters as we are. Mike Waltz has been fighting for his job this week, though ever since then.

He was in the cabinet meeting yesterday. He did "Fox & Friends" this morning -- I mean, he has certainly been doing the things that you would do to try to stay inside the administration.

DASHA BURNS, WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF OF POLITICO: By the way, why Waltz and not Hegseth also to the point that you are making, Dana, he was not seen as one of us in terms of the MAGA movement so often on these issues, especially a foreign policy.

[12:05:00]

It was Waltz and Rubio on one side, and Vance, Witkoff and the others on the other side. And we've been reporting for over a month now, ever since Signal Gate that Waltz was on the chopping block, that it was a ticking time bomb. The reason that he wasn't fired immediately after Signal Gate was simply because Trump and the White House did not want to give the media a scalp.

But this has been a long time coming, and again, Signal Gate was more a byproduct, rather than a reason for his house --

BASH: Do you remember the Laura Loomer list?

BURNS: Yes.

BASH: She came in, you reported on this, and she had a long list of people, not sure where she got it, but a long list of people on the national security front, who were not considered loyalists, but it was obviously much more than that. Mike Waltz was on that list.

MARIO PARKER, NATIONAL POLITICS TEAM LEADER BLOOMBERG: Right, absolutely, and to the point of the other panelists, the fact that he was known as a more traditional Republican, hawkish in nature, which is in direct contrast to the Make America Great America foreign doctrine. But I want to take another step back as well, back to that cabinet meeting yesterday.

One of the things that was striking was how many of the cabinet officials suddenly gave an endorsement to Hegseth right, namely Lee Zeldin yesterday as well, who kind of gave an impassioned defense talking about the greatest defense in national security, head of his recent memory.

What that signal, I think, was that the rest of the West Wing were favoring Hegseth over Waltz. If the president had to make this decision sometime this week, they were putting, they were casting their votes on which one would be to vote.

COLLINS: Can we also talk, I mean, Dana, obviously long time Capitol Hill Reporter, how Speaker, Mike Johnson, is viewing this.

BASH: Yeah. COLLINS: I mean, Trump took several House members to put them in his cabinet. National security advisor is a cabinet level position. None of them are now in it. It was Matt Gaetz, obviously did not go on to be attorney general. Elise Stefanik had her nomination then pulled, and then Mike Waltz, of course, now is the first major departure.

Scaramucci is kind of mocking, you know, just how short his tenure was, saying, I think that he had 9 Scaramuccis, but it speaks to the level of this is something the White House wanted to do for a while, but they all wanted to wait until that 100-day period had hit, because they didn't want anything to happen too soon.

BURNS: And --

BASH: I'm so glad you brought up.

BURNS: Sorry.

BASH: -- please.

BURNS: Speaking of Laura Loomer, just before we came on, I literally got a text from Laura Loomer saying, Loomered.

BASH: Yeah.

ZELENY: A verb?

BASH: I mean.

BURNS: A verb, now a verb.

BASH: Does she's verbing herself?

BURNS: She's verbing herself.

BASH: OK. Let's go back to the political implications of this. Because, I mean, there's so many, but just on Capitol Hill. Because, remember, it was Mike Waltz who had won his seat by like, a million points. I mean, rough, give or take a few.

ZELENY: In deep red, Florida --

BASH: It was very safe, and then the special election was a lot closer than anybody had hoped. Now, to be fair to Mike Waltz, it was, well, I think maybe he could argue it's a good thing, because he shows how popular he is, but also Randy Fine, who then actually did want when a lot of Republicans were very, especially at the White House, were very frustrated about the way that he ran the campaign.

But there was some, I don't know if it was buyer's remorse, not necessarily only about Mike Waltz, but about what you were saying, Kaitlan, that they took him out of the House, and then they had to spend so much money to replace and we keep that secret.

COLLINS: Yeah. I mean, incredibly frustrating, obviously, for Speaker Mike Johnson, for people like Elise Stefanik, who would like to be in New York, serving at the United Nations, but is not, so you just see all the implications that this has. The president had been warned against picking too many House members, but he likes these people.

They were his allies. Mike Waltz was one of his biggest defenders during the campaign, he would go on TV and defend the president when very few others would during certain news cycles, and when the president was under fire for comments that he had made about the military, Mike Waltz went out and defended that.

And obviously he is a former green beret, and so certainly, he was a powerful voice for his on the campaign trail and came into the administration, but just never really had that strong of standing. Not a huge surprise, Trump had a million national security advisors to speak to your numbers a second ago his first time in office, this is a position that is more easily changed, because it's not a Senate confirm.

BASH: I'm glad you brought that up, in 2017 at the beginning of President Trump's first term, he had a National Security Adviser named Mike Flynn, and he lasted 22 days. And of course, now Mike Waltz National Security Adviser almost former so far, he has been there 102 days. And that's just that position.

ZELENY: Right.

BASH: So, I think we should also remember, and this is kind of the point that you were making, I think Dasha is that this is another example of how, at 102 days and Trump won, I don't know how many people we had already seen de part. I mean, it was totally different.

ZELENY: It's sort of lost track, because there were a lot.

BASH: Yeah.

[12:10:00]

ZELENY: But look, I mean to Kaitlan's last point, that's also one of the reasons that national security advisers are easier to get rid of, because there's no senate confirmation. The president expended a lot of political capital getting Pete Hegseth effort confirmed by one vote. There may be some buyer remorse among some senators, but we will see they've been quiet about this.

But the reality is, it's easier to replace that person, but even separately of that, the president views Pete Hegseth as one of his own. He's part of the movement. He's not been lumbered. That's not possible, because he sort of comes with that. But that's why it was easy to get rid of Mike Waltz.

BURNS: Right and now the people like Pete Hegseth and others who may have been in a little bit of hot water, I think, are breathing a sigh of relief for this very reason, if they just have these headlines of Mike Waltz right now, it's going to be a while before they let another head roll.

COLLINS: Can I also just say, though, that, you know, this is obviously about the culture inside the West Wing. What does it mean? Who's going to replace him? This is a super critical position.

BASH: Yeah.

COLLINS: And there is a real moment -- right now. It's not clear who's going to replace him. Our colleague, Kevin Liptak, says Steve Witkoff, a huge ally and of the -- president --

BASH: -- job.

COLLINS: Maybe Elise Stefanik --

BURNS: -- people don't want to touch it, though, for this very reason that he's replaced those advisers.

BASH: Yeah.

COLLINS: They're in the moment of where they have real crises on their hand. I mean, they are trying to get a ceasefire in Russia, and between Russia and Ukraine, what's happening in Gaza still, obviously, between India and Pakistan. This is not a job that comes without its challenges, and it's quite needed in this moment. So, we'll see how quickly the president moves.

BASH: I'm so happy that you are here. Thanks for jumping on with the news. All of you, what a great discussion. I think, really, think our viewers got a sense of not just the what, but the why. Coming up, we have more on the why. A top Democrat. In fact, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Congressman Jim Himes will weigh in on the expected exit of the President's National Security Adviser, don't go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:00]

BASH: We're looking at live pictures of President Trump speaking in the White House Rose Garden for a National Day prayer event. He's praised a number of top administration officials. It does appear that his National Security Adviser, Mike Waltz is notably absent. On that we're going to go more to our breaking news about sources telling CNN that the national security adviser is leaving the Trump Administration.

My colleagues are hearing that Special Envoy Steve Witkoff is under consideration as his replacement. CNN's Alex Marquardt joins me now. First just broadly about the departure of Mike Waltz, which has not yet officially happened yet. What impact is that going to have on foreign policy, which is so sort of on a razor's edge on so many hot spots around the world?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dana, I think it's fair to say that Mike Waltz has not held the traditional position of a national security adviser who is the point person on all things foreign policy, say Jake Sullivan under the Biden Administration. Waltz has had to share this portfolio with the vice president, the Secretary of State, Steve Witkoff, who has this ever- expanding portfolio.

So, I think we need to look at the foreign policy issues where Waltz really has been a strong participant and had an impact. Ukraine, first of all, we had these minerals deal that was just signed the Trump Administration pushing towards a peace deal. Waltz has been at the table with both the Russians and Ukrainians.

I would say that he has receded in recent weeks. And if he were to be replaced by someone who is less of a hawk against the Russians like he is, someone who is a bit more MAGA than that person could go more towards the Russian position. And then on Iran again, he is a hawk, and this is someone who has advocated for the complete dismantlement of the Iranian nuclear program.

That is not where we think Trump and Steve Witkoff was leading these Iranian negotiations are. And so, with Waltz being removed again, that could be moving closer towards the Iranian position. And then in terms of the foreign reaction, Dana, a lot of foreign officials, much of the world, seeing people like Mike Waltz, like Marco Rubio, as essentially the ballast versus the more MAGA forces in the administration.

I've been speaking with a number of foreign officials who have expressed regret at the fact that Waltz' leaving, calling him a good man and a friend, but everyone I've spoken to on the foreign side saying it's too soon to tell what the impact is going to be. We have to see who is going to replace him.

One senior Western official I spoke with took a much harsher approach, telling me that, of all the people in the Trump Administration on the foreign policy side, we never thought that he would be the first to be fired, but this official saying we know that he will be the first of many, Dana.

BASH: Alex, thank you so much for that reporting. And joining me now is the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Congressman Jim Himes of Connecticut. Thank you so much for being here, first your reaction to the news.

REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): Well, Dana, I was really concerned when I heard the news. And, you know, I know Mike took a lot of hits, as he should have, for setting up that famous Houthi PC group, Signal chat, a terrible lapse in judgment on his part. But, you know, I know Mike very well. We serve together on the Intelligence Committee.

I certainly wouldn't agree with him on a lot of issues, but he is one of the proverbial adults in the room. He has extensive military experience. He had lots of national security experience here in the capital. And when you hold him side by side with Pete Hegseth, who is obviously not a serious person, who really was doing the dangerous things on those Signal chats by talking about particular weapons platforms and timing and targets and that sort of thing.

[12:20:00]

You know, Mike is absolutely an adult in the room, and it really worries me for two reasons. Number one, the context. I mean, what the world sees, and it's a dangerous world out there, is they see chaos right now, and they see a guy agree or disagree with him, who is experienced, who was a military veteran of some renowned being the first out the door.

Meanwhile, Pete Hegseth is, you know, hanging tough, and this is a dangerous world, and we need more adults in the room, not fewer.

BASH: Yeah. I mean, no question, renown. He's mentioned earlier, not only a green beret, but a four-time bronze star winner. Definitely has incredible, incredible experience serving in the United States military. On that note, I mean, Pete Hegseth did serve as well, and the president is speaking right now in the Rose Garden, and he did just phrase Pete Hegseth, once again, that was clearly not an accident.

What does it tell you? I know you're not happy that Hegseth is there, but what does it tell you? And I guess maybe, what more broadly, will it tell the world that Pete Hegseth clearly has the back of the president and Mike Waltz' out?

HIMES: Yeah. Well, one of my worries, and we're all sort of speculating on why Mike Waltz appears to have been fired, but one of my worries is that, you know, Mike had his own head, right? He had his own views, and they were informed by a lot of experience, and I'm not sure that that was welcome inside the White House, whereas Pete Hegseth, look, we've watched him long enough to know that whatever the president wants to hear, that's what Pete Hegseth is going to say.

And you know, Dana, there not a lot of moments where the national security world looks like a Hollywood movie, but there are those moments, right? And people need to remember that we are talking about people who when the North Koreans are fueling a nuclear tipped missile, or when there is a terrorist group moving what we fear may be, you know, bio active stuff across the northern Sahel.

The president calls these people in and says, tell me what is happening and tell me what to do. And if you have people like Pete Hegseth or, you know, I don't know Mr. Witkoff all that well. He seems like a serious person, but he's a real estate attorney. If the folks that are advising you in those sorts of apocalyptic moments aren't deeply experienced with incredible judgment, it can very much put the United States and its people at risk.

BASH: Well, but on that note, what the national security adviser traditionally does is kind of the conductor, right of all of the national security agencies within the cabinets all around the administration. It is supposed to come through that person who is supposed to have the ear and confidence of the president.

Yes, it is true that Mike Waltz has a ton of experience and is very serious person, but at the end of the day, if he doesn't have the confidence of the president. Do you understand why the president would want to get rid of him?

HIMES: I understand that in the context of Donald Trump, Donald Trump wants to be surrounded by people who, look, we've watched two cabinet meetings now, who have a dear leader inclination. In other words, you will spend your first 40 percent of your time with me, praising me and telling me how I'm the best president ever.

The problem is, Dana, and this is why I tell the stories about stuff that happens in national security, terrorist movements. You know, the Russians are doing something very strange at an air base or whatever. These are deeply, deeply serious things. And what a leader needs, whether it's a CEO or a president or a senator, a leader needs somebody who says, no sir, who is comfortable saying no, sir, you need to think of these other things.

And right now, with the loss of Mike Waltz, I don't see a lot of people in the national security firmament who are going to speak truth to the president, because they know that it may be their head on the block if they do so. Look, talk to Mark Milley. Talk to, you know, any of the national security people in the first term, who I think, were trying to do their best on behalf of national security.

And what happened? They got fired for it. That's a very, very dangerous dynamic in the Oval Office.

BASH: Let's look ahead to who could be the next national security adviser. My colleagues here reporting that Steve Witkoff is under consideration. I know you just said that you don't know him very well, but you certainly know about him. Would you be comfortable with that?

HIMES: Well, again, the perfect national security adviser is somebody who has spent decades inside the Pentagon, inside CIA, who understands what the capabilities and authorities are of these many and unbelievably complicated agencies on which we spend a trillion dollars a year more or less, right?

It's really, really complicated stuff. And look there, you know, being a real estate attorney is a serious job, and so I have no doubt that, you know, Mr. Witkoff has the mental capability of doing this, but there's just no substitution for the judgment, because at the end of the day, that job is all about judgment.

Because the president looks at you in moments where there is a threat of nuclear attack, in moments where there is threat of a deliberately started pandemic, and says, what do you think, you just can't replace the judgment that comes from decades of working in and around the national security apparatus in this in Washington.

[12:25:00]

BASH: Is there anyone in his orbit you would be comfortable with right now?

HIMES: You know, look, I think there are good people. I focus mainly on the intelligence community, and I think there are good people in the intelligence community. There are people out there. But again, this is not a solvable problem, right? In a world where we know Donald Trump wants to use most of the time with his people to be praised.

In a world where and this was not, this is what two weeks ago, in which you know General Tim Haugh, the -- you know, the Commander of Cyber Command, and the Head of the NSA, was apparently fired because Laura Loomer, right wing podcaster, didn't like him. This is not a problem that you can necessarily solve by having a list of people without experience. There are some fundamental problems here.

BASH: Yeah. Well, she just texted our panelist here, Dasha Burns, who said that Mike Waltz got loomered. So maybe there's a connection there. Congressman, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it.

HIMES: Thank you, Dana.

BASH: Up next, President Trump is finally admitting that his massive tariffs will hurt the American consumer. Plus, Elon Musk is shifting away from his government DOGE duties, but insists the work will continue, saying, quote, DOGE is a way of life like Buddhism, end quote.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:30:00]