Return to Transcripts main page
Inside Politics
Smoke from First Conclave Vote at the Vatican; Cardinals in Sistine Chapel to Elect New Pope; India Strikes Pakistan as Nuclear Powers Inch Closer to Wider Conflict; Biden on Trump's Foreign Policy: "What the Hell's Going on Here". Aired 12-12:30p ET
Aired May 07, 2025 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Today on "Inside Politics", a divine decision. Right now, Cardinals from six continents are sequestered inside the Sistine Chapel for one of history's most sacred and secretive rituals, the Conclave. We're waiting for smoke with the first vote set to begin at any moment.
Plus, a new risk of war between nuclear neighbors. India's retaliatory air strikes inside Pakistan are causing worldwide anxiety as President Trump attempts to brush aside the escalating hostilities. And MAGA world is mobilizing against the Republican Senator who says he won't support the president's highly controversial choice to be D.C.'s top prosecutor. Will, Senator Thom Tillis stand his ground under pressure? I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines and "Inside Politics".
In Vatican City, where the Conclave is officially. That was just moments ago the doors of the Sistine Chapel closing. Alone inside the 133 Cardinals who will choose the next Pope. They've taken an individual oath of secrecy, and we won't see the Cardinals again until they've chosen a successor to Pope Francis.
New York Cardinal Timothy Dolan (ph) is one of 10 Americans voting today. He taped a very modern social media message as he embarked on this tightly guarded, centuries old process.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, folks, I won't be able to talk to you until you see the white smoke. I look forward to doing that. Keep us in your prayers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Of course, no one knows how long the Conclave will last, as the Cardinals are instructed to hold as many rounds of voting as necessary to select the next leader of the Catholic Church. CNN's Erin Burnett is in Rome overlooking the Vatican. Erin, walk us through what is happening right now and what we expect next in this conclave?
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Well, you heard the solemn bang of each of the giant wooden doors to the Sistine Chapel. Dana, they are closed, and now the Cardinals are in there. They are selecting. They are going to be selecting randomly, three of them to count the ballots, three of them to double check the count, three of them to oversee in case anyone gets ill.
So, there are nine Cardinals that will be selected at random. There are procedural things that they must do before their first vote. And they will pray, and then they will get to that vote today. So, within the next few hours, there will be the first vote. And in the Sistine Chapel, which is really over my left shoulder here, you can't see it right behind the building, but you can see the chimney from here in St. Peter's Square that first smoke will come out in their first vote.
And at this point, Dana, you need two thirds of the Cardinals to agree on a Pope in order for there to be a Pope. No one anticipates that that will happen today. Last time around with Pope Francis, it happened the day after. So, it happened would be tomorrow would be Thursday.
But of course, as you know, these cardinals, 133 of them, the majority of them, have not known each other or been able to build relationships over these years. So, while they've been learning a lot about each other in recent days and months since the Pope's last illness, we really don't know who the front runners are.
There's talk of some but we just don't know. So, we'll see what the smoke says tonight, but even that will not tell us. Is there a clear front runner? Is there not? Literally in the dark, in a process that is still being carried out the way it has essentially Dana for the past 800 years. But here in the crowd, people have gathered, tourists, people from Rome alike as those doors shut so resoundingly, there was clapping, applause, and people here are now waiting on smoke watch, watching that chimney, Dana.
BASH: And we, of course, all know at this point that white smoke means they have selected a Pope. Black smoke means that they have not yet done that, but you're learning exactly how they make the different colors, black and white. What have you learned?
[12:05:00]
BURNETT: So -- you know, we're talking about -- let's talk about chemistry. I mean, that's what it's really all about, Dana, so black smoke what we anticipate we will see today, it's potassium perchlorate and then anthracene. So basically, a lot of carbon, a lot of coal. That's what's supposed to make it black, along with sulphur.
So that's how they make the black smoke. They cast their votes, they burn them, and then as they send the smoke out, they add in this combination of chemicals. So, it really is chemistry that's how they get to the black smoke. White smoke they add in lactose. Obviously, you can think white there, and pine resin to help make it white.
Although I will say Dana -- you know as we all remember watching last time around, it often looks rather grey. And you actually have to wait the 20 or 30 seconds until the smoke comes out, because if it is white and it's -- and you're not 100 percent sure, the bells will ring when there is a Pope. And 20 to 30 seconds after the smoke, you will hear those bells, and we will know there is a Pope, able to tell from the smoke itself.
BASH: Yeah, I do remember there's, I mean, the fact that we've had the same process. We've seen the same process for so long. It really is remarkable and amazing that you get to be there to witness this historic event. Erin, good to see you. And CNN's Ben Wedeman, rather, is inside the crowd around the Vatican. What's it like where you are, Ben?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dana, we were here this morning, and really the journalists outnumbered the people who are coming here just to see what's going on. But now that has changed. I mean, behind me is St. Peter's Square, and in front of me, this is Via Della Conciliazione, the boulevard that leads to St. Peter's Square.
And it is crammed with people coming forward. This is just one of the approaches to St. Peter's Square. So, it does appear that, certainly there are a lot of people, tourists, who are flocking here to see that first smoke coming out. Now the expectation Dana is it's going to be black smoke.
Because usually the first vote is where the Cardinals get that first idea of who seems to be the front runner? Who's possibly the one who might be the main rival? But certainly, it's important for many people just to be here at the moment when the smoke comes out, whether it's black or whether it's white, Dana.
BASH: Ben, thank you so much for that. And now I want to turn to CNN Vatican Correspondent Christopher Lamb and Analyst Elisabetta Pique, thank you so much for being here. Elisabetta, I should tell our viewers you are the Author of the book "Pope Francis: Life and revolution". You can see you are both in Rome, in Vatican City.
Christopher, I want to start with you. Obviously, the Conclave has unparalleled secrecy, but we do have a sense of what the process is inside the Sistine Chapel that's going on as we speak. Is there sort of, what level of transparency is there among the Cardinals as they vet the candidates?
CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well really, the vetting process is a kind of informal one the Cardinals, as they have gathered in Rome in recent days, have been able to meet with each other, to talk to each other. They've heard speeches. They've been able to be talked to one another about potential candidates.
It's an informal process. And of course, inside the Sistine Chapel, we don't know what is going on in terms of the numbers of votes that people are going to get? It's all locked behind closed doors. I would say, though that I think the first vote is going to be very important, because it's going to say where support lies for different candidates.
How many votes will the purported front runners get? Will there be a candidate who surprises them with a number of votes? We don't have the exact tallies, but we can have a sense and an educated guess, given the way that previous conclaves have been documented in the years that have gone by. So, the first vote tonight will be absolutely crucial, Dana.
BASH: And Elisabetta, 133 Cardinals from 71 countries. They are the ones deciding the next Pope. Most of the electors come from Italy and the U.S. and Brazil. Are there regional alliances that tend to emerge throughout the voting?
ELISABETTA PIQUE, VATICAN CORRESPONDENT, LA NACION: Well, we will have to see this is -- this is the first really multi polar and global conclave that we have seen. We have never seen so many voters, 133. In the last Conclave, there were 115.
[12:10:00]
And never so many countries, so more -- 70 countries from all over the world. And this makes the thing as well everybody who might talk in these days this difficulty because they don't know each other and for that reason, also, some say that maybe this election, the secret election, would be maybe longer than the two elections that we have in 2005 and 2013 that they lasted two days.
Maybe it could be they need more time and it will be essential, after this first vote that everybody thinks that we will have a black smoke because it's impossible. Nobody has the 89 votes necessary to be elected Pope. And so, it will be very important to see what happens when they go back to Santa Marta and they will have dinner.
Tomorrow morning, they have breakfast -- you know, and during the night, they will be -- in the corridors of Santa Marta. So, it's very important also to have this kind of -- again meetings, for sure, informal. They will have the chance to know each other more, and we will see how the dynamics will evolve in the next hours.
BASH: And Elisabetta just real quick. We did hear a homily this morning from Giovanni Ray, who is the Dean of the College of Cardinals. He did appear to urge the Cardinals to follow Pope Francis' path. Is that any indicator of where things could go? I know it's really hard to answer this question, but there also is a big open question of whether there could be a pivot to more conservative leadership.
PIQUE: Well, for me, was very interesting this morning. This -- he gave this homily in the Pro Eligendo, Pro Eligendo, Pontifex. That was, for me, very surprising, because he never mentioned Francis. He mentioned Paul VI. He mentioned John Paul II, but he never mentioned Francis. So, this was really weird.
And I went back to the Pro Eligendo masses of 2005 and 2013. And in 2005 of course, it was mentioned the legacy John Paul II had died April 2, 2005. It was mentioned his legacy. And in 2013 Benedict, as we all know he stepped down so -- but of course, it was mentioned Benedict, so it was maybe a signal.
And some, you know, supporters of the legacy of Pope Francis told me somewhat - want -- they want to do. They want to erase the legacy of Francine, not mentioning, and we know that Ray is a diplomat. He was very close. He worked very closely with John Paul II. And of course, he supported parillin (ph) in this -- that is a diplomat in this campaign that we have seen very, very strong in the also in the Italian media.
But when there is a strong campaign in the Italian media, this doesn't mean, as happened in 2013 that at the end, that will be the result. So, it's -- I think it's very, very open. And there is not a standing out personality like it was -- you know in 2005 Joseph Ratzinger, Benedict, so we will have to see, wait and see.
BASH: Yeah. Well, we are all waiting for sure to see what that smoke looks like. Thank you to you both. I know that you'll be joining us throughout the day and evening and throughout the week. Appreciate it. Coming up on "Inside Politics", a deadly escalation pushes two nuclear powers closer to the edge. How the Trump Administration is responding to this growing conflict? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:15:00]
BASH: A major escalation in the conflict between India and Pakistan has brought the two nuclear powers to the brink of a wider conflict. Last night, Indian air strikes hit deep inside Pakistan and in the Pakistani controlled part of Kashmir. Pakistan says it, excuse me, says at least 26 civilians were killed.
And Pakistan is vowing to respond to the strikes which followed a deadly terrorist attack that India accused the Pakistani government of involvement in. CNN's Kristen Holmes is at the White House. So, Kristen, we've heard a little bit from the president, but what are you hearing from your sources behind the scenes on how they're trying to tamp this down?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the administration officials I've spoken to view this as a major escalation. This is something that they were watching very closely after that terror attack that you mentioned. In fact, J.D. Vance said on Fox News last week that he hoped India's response wouldn't be something that escalated this into a regional conflict. Obviously, this is what we are seeing play out here. Now Donald Trump was asked about this yesterday. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Now, it's a shame we just heard about it just as we were walking in the doors of the Oval. Just heard about it. I guess people knew something was going to happen based on a little bit of the past they've been fighting for a long time.
[12:20:00]
You know? They've been fighting for many, many decades and centuries, actually, if you really think about it, no, I just hope it ends very quickly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: So far, the White House has not answered questions on whether or not Donald Trump has been in touch with India's Leader Modi, but we do expect this to come up at the briefing in just a few minutes.
BASH: Kristen, thank you so much. Let us know if we got -- if we get any updates during that briefing. Appreciate it. And tensions between India and Pakistan add to a long list of dangerous global conflicts where the U.S. is a major player. Just look at some of the headlines in the past week.
Russia and Ukraine trading strikes, still. Israel preparing for a massive new offensive in Gaza. And it's already wrapping up, excuse me, increasing attacks on the Houthis in Yemen. I have a great group of reporters here to break all of this down, the politics of all of this. CNN's Mark Preston, CNN and Bloomberg's Nia-Malika Henderson, NPR's Tamara, Keith and Margaret Talev of AXIOS.
Hello, everybody. Look presidents deal with the world around them, not the world that they want to exist. Having said that, this is a president who we can talk a little bit more about this in a second, but his whole emo is, I'm the guy who's going to end wars. People aren't going to attack each other, never mind involve us when I'm in the White House, and things are really hot all over the globe.
MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: They are hot all over the globe. But that means you would -- I've come to learn you do not interpret what Donald Trump says to you. You have to -- you have to look at it and say, well, you know what he says now necessarily doesn't mean it's going to come to fruition down the road. And that's what's happening here with Donald Trump just kind of backing off of this.
You know, we've seen him talking about how he was going to lower taxes, right? You know, on day one, like, our taxes are going to drop. And on day one, you know, it's going to be $0.56 for a gallon of gas. Kidding. But, look, but that's what he said. If people want to hear that, and they'll just grasp onto it.
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah, and that's exactly what happened. He ran as a guy who could bend the world to his will. He suggested that Biden was too weak, and that was why there was all of these conflicts all over the world. Those conflicts are remaining, and they're spreading at this point.
And you see some of this -- you know, in talking to folks and listening to even MAGA folks who are kind of like Donald Trump promised to wrap up these conflicts. Donald Trump promised a number of things, and so far, nothing is coming to fruition. And in many ways, things are getting worse.
BASH: Let's hear some of what the now president said during the campaign, and even since he's been back in the Oval Office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I had no wars. I'm the only president in 72 years. I didn't have any wars. I could stop wars with a telephone call. I'm the only candidate who can make this promise to you; I will prevent World War III. Look at what's going on in the Middle East. This would have never happened. They said he will start a war. I'm not going to start war. I'm going to stop wars. Stop wars. I've stopped many wars. My people will tell you I stopped wars that nobody ever heard about. I stopped wars before they ever started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAMARA KEITH, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is almost like a tick. He says it so often that he would have prevented it. This war wouldn't have happened. This never would have happened. This conflict, open conflict between two nuclear armed nations is happening right now at a really inconvenient time for the president.
The U.S. has been negotiating trade deals. Has been trying to secure a trade deal with India. It was thought that India would be one of the first ones announced. Now this is happening. You also have the president preparing to leave on a trip to the Middle East. Just early next week, he will be leaving on that trip, and you have the situation in Gaza really flaring up.
It's all very inconvenient for the president. You know, on some level, it seems that he really wanted to come into office and just have this be easy, like there would be an easy button to get out of these really intractable conflicts. And the fact is, as you said, there is no easy button. The president doesn't really get to choose his crises.
MARGARET TALEV, SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR, AXIOS: I do think there's no easy button for India, Pakistan or for Israel and the Palestinians, for sure. I do think, like, if you have been watching President Trump for the last year or so, from the campaign to the beginning of this administration, there's been a shift in trying to understand what his foreign policy is.
Is it isolationist? No, it turns out it's not really isolationist, but it's sort of tactical. It's more about what's in it for the U.S. and I think one of the challenges we're seeing play out here, but also in the Middle East and also between Russia and Ukraine is that not all conflicts are centrally about the United States.
[12:25:00]
The U.S.'s role is like a little bit more tertiary. So what do you do when the two sides who are fighting with each other really aren't fighting about America and America's role or non-role, depending on how you want to play it, is just to try to get everybody to calm down and find some way to move on that won't engulf an entire region or the world or the global economy, and we don't really know what his answer is to that yet.
BASH: I mean, listen, that's a really important point. The challenge is that, with regard to Ukraine and Russia, the U.S. isn't involved except for supplying -- you know a lot of support, military support to Ukraine, which is not nothing Israel Gaza saying when it comes to Israel.
But he did say that he wants to end it. I mean, he's the guy who said that. I also want to point out that his predecessor, who President Trump criticizes all the time is weak, and that's why you saw all of these hot spots explode around the world. President Biden is starting to poke his head up in public. He talked to the BBC. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you make of those scenes in the Oval Office President Trump and President Zelenskyy?
JOE BIDEN, 46TH U.S. PRESIDENT: I found it sort of beneath America, the way that took place, and the way we talk about now that, well, since the Gulf of America, maybe we're going to have to take back Panama. Maybe we need to acquire Greenland. Maybe Canada should be what the hell is going on here?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERSTON: That may be the exclamation point that we have to put on the idea that we are no longer living in a political world that we were 2, 3, 4, 5, years ago. You would never see a former president go overseas, let alone do it here in the United States and be critical of the foreign policy efforts of the person who succeeded.
BASH: Yeah, that is such a good point. It is a whole new world. Ahead on "Inside Politics" one Republican lawmaker is now facing the wrath of MAGA for going against President Trump's pick for DC's top federal prosecutor. We'll discuss after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:30:00]
