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Inside Politics
MAGA Media Slams Sen. Tillis for Opposing U.S. Attorney Pick; Trump Says Ed Martin's Approval as U.S. Attorney is Imperative; Cardinals in Sistine Chapel to Elect a New Pope, Conclave Underway; Trump to Rename Persian Gulf to Gulf of America; Vance's Half-brother Advances to Cincinnati Mayoral Election. Aired 12:30-1p ET
Aired May 07, 2025 - 12:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[12:32:08]
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR OF 'INSIDE POLITICS': Republican Senator Thom Tillis says he has told the White House he will vote against Ed Martin, President Trump's pick to be the U.S. attorney here in Washington.
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SEN. THOM TILLIS, (R-NC): If Mr. Martin were being put forth as a U.S. attorney for any district except the district where January 6th happened, the protest happened, I'd probably support him, but not in this district. But at this point, I've indicated to the White House I wouldn't support his nomination.
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BASH: And with that, the floodgates have opened. A lot of pressure coming from the MAGA Media verse to change his mind on Martin, a devoted Trump supporter who made his name as an organizer of Stop the Steal, and a lawyer and outspoken advocate for January 6th defendants.
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NATALIE WINTERS, CO-HOST, BANNON'S WAR ROOM PODCAST: I'm sorry, Senator Tillis. You want to give illegal aliens more nuance and understanding and compassion and how you handle their cases. Then you'll give American patriots who dared to stand up to a contested election and that's the reason that you can't vote for Ed Martin? Where were you when January 6th-ers, when your constituents were getting thrown in prison? Thom Tillis, you are very much on the wrong side of history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Nia, just to recap here, they're mad because the Senator says that the idea that Ed Martin is in support of the -- many things having to do with the January 6th rioters, including pardoning them and defending them. And that was the sort of the bridge too far for Senator Tillis. That's what MAGA Media is upset about. NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah, I mean, it really goes to the centrality of January 6th or truism (ph), this idea that it was just a peaceful protest and a rightful protest that these folks wanted to essentially overthrow a free and fair election. So that's the kind of rhetoric you hear in, in MAGA verse. And that is what is going to come very strongly at Thom Tillis. I mean, he has stated that he's not going to support this person.
And it also gets at the kind of fear I think that a lot of Senators and folks in the House have in standing up to MAGA because you will get a lot thrown at you. And listen, MAGA has proven to be violent, right, and scary if you look at what happened on January 6th.
BASH: Yeah. And on that note, just to sort of put a cap on Ed Martin and his role vis-a-vis January 6th, he -- because he's acting U.S. attorney now in D.C. He has already dismissed the January 6th Capitol Riot cases, which is one of the things that Senator Tillis is upset about. He was a defense counsel and prosecutor on the January 6th case, fired the prosecutors involved in January 6th investigations. And then what you're seeing on the screen there are some of the other issues. That was just January 6th.
[12:35:00]
These are other issues that Senators are raising their eyebrows about, everything from the fact that he failed to report in his confirmation process. Nearly 200 appearances on far-right media outlets. He claims not to recall numerous past controversial statements under oath. This is another big one. The U.S. Attorney nominee, Ed Martin, he has now repudiated an alleged Nazi sympathizer, which is at odds with his own statements that our own K-File have found.
TAMARA KEITH, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, NPR: Yes, he has a big file. The other, the other thing about Ed Martin, which is both a virtue and a vice depending on where people are coming from, is that he is very aligned with President Trump, has gone on Twitter to sort of take cues from the president and others, suggesting prosecutions. So that sort of separation, which I realize is a little novel or like, behind the times at this point, but the separation between the Justice Department and the White House when it comes to prosecutorial decisions and investigations, that is utterly blurred and especially blurred when it comes to him and his public statements about seeing himself as the president's lawyer.
MARGARET TALEV, MANAGING EDITOR FOR POLITICS, AXIOS: You know, there's a sense on the Hill that Tillis has kind of taken one for the team on this one. That there are many Senate Republicans who don't think that Ed Martin would be a remotely appropriate person to serve in a confirmed position.
BASH: But the question is whether or not he is taken one for the team or whether he's going to provide political cover for other Republicans, so that the president will have to either -- he won't get confirmed or the president will withdraw the nomination.
TALEV: Exactly. BASH: We don't know yet.
TALEV: Yes. I mean, that is sort of -- that's -- that is what everyone up there I think is feeling. But remember, this is politics. And so, Tillis has, if he wants to be a Senator again, he has to stand for re-election. He is got a difficult or fairly difficult contest next year. And so the question is, if he wants to run again, is the president and his team going to turn all of his political forces against him in a primary? I mean, Trump does have other options by the way. He could just nominate someone else. That could happen.
BASH: Yeah. But Ed Martin is a favorite.
(CROSSTALK)
HENDERSON: Absolutely.
BASH: And then just on the idea that Tom Tillis is up for re- election, this is really one of the things that makes it so fascinating because on the other nominees that have been controversial, Tillis was a yes. This is the one that he's -- and which was an early indicator that Tillis was going to actually run for re-election because we weren't really sure.
This is one where he's pushing back and it's a biggie when it comes to Tillis' own political viability, because it's going to be hard to see him not getting a Republican primary. A real -- I mean, he has some people running against him, but one that has the full support of MAGA world.
MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's going to be hard to see that MAGA world doesn't come in with an incredible amount of money and try to crush him as they go through the primary, as they have said they're going to do. What is worth noting are two things. One, I don't think it matters who is going to be the U.S. attorney. I just don't. I think that Donald Trump is going to put anybody -- whoever he wants in there. Hammer set it (ph) like there's no line between the Justice Department and the White House anymore.
You could put me in there for God sake, or you, or you, or you, or you, and we could all say --
BASH: I'm good.
(LAUGH)
PRESTON: No, but I'm saying that if we didn't do what he wanted us to do, he would fire you and then he would put somebody else in.
BASH:
PRESTON: So regardless who gets into that position, all of the decisions are being made out of the White House.
BASH: Which is not normal.
PRESTON: Or good.
BASH: And we have to repeat.
HENDERSON: Yeah.
BASH: This is not typical. This is very much a departure from what we have seen for decades. All right, everybody, thank you so much. Don't go away because one 2024 election race has been litigated, recounted, challenged for six months. Today, it was decided the outcome of that. We'll talk about next. Plus, that whole question about the smoke from the chimney at the Vatican, we're going to see what the results of the first conclave vote will be. Black smoke? White smoke? We're going to bring it to you live. It could happen any moment. Don't go away.
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[12:43:48]
BASH: Tapping our political radar, it's been 184 days since Election Day 2024, and yet the final race was just decided. North Carolina Republican Judge Jefferson Griffin is effectively conceding the state's Supreme Court race to Democrat Allison Riggs. Now, Riggs won by 734 votes, a margin confirmed by multiple recounts. But Griffin and Republicans spent months trying to get tens of thousands of votes thrown out.
President Trump is expected to announce that the U.S. will now refer to the Persian Gulf as the Arabian Gulf or Gulf of Arabia. That's according to two administration officials. President Trump begins a trip to the Middle East in Saudi Arabia next week, which is one of several nations wanting to change the Gulf's name. Iran, of course, formally known as Persia, is already responding. "It will only bring the wrath of all Iranians."
And Vice President J.D. Vance's brother, Cory Bowman, advanced to the next round of voting for Cincinnati Mayor. Vance officially endorsed his brother in yesterday's primary.
[12:45:00]
While Bowman did receive enough votes to advance, his odds of eventual victory aren't so great. The Democratic incumbent Aftab Pureval won more than 80 percent of the vote. Still ahead, you are looking at that live shot of the chimney, Vatican City. We are going to see smoke as the cardinals are gathered to pick the next Pope. What kind of smoke will it be? And what kind of sway do the American Cardinals have? I'm going to discuss that with an expert from Catholic University after a quick break.
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[12:50:00]
BASH: It's a live look at the chimney atop the Sistine Chapel, where we believe the Cardinals are holding their first vote right now, which means we could see white or black smoke coming from that chimney at any moment. We've never had an American Pope before. It's unlikely that will change this week. But, of the 133 Cardinals voting in the Conclave, 10 are American. And while the church became more progressive in the Francis era, here in the United States, there has been an ascendancy of much more conservative leadership.
Joining me now is Stephen White. He's the Executive Director of The Catholic Project at Catholic University. Nice to see you. Thank you so much for being here. So your organization, The Catholic Project, found that among Catholic American priests, we're just talking priests now, ordained since 2020, 80 percent identify as conservative or orthodox. Why do you think that newer or maybe even younger or maybe more progressive people are not going into the priesthood in America?
STEPHEN WHITE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE CATHOLIC PROJECT, CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY: Well, it's a complicated question. Our survey did show that the youngest priests were the most likely to describe themselves as theologically conservative or orthodox. They were also the most likely cohort to describe themselves as politically moderate. And they're by far the most racially and ethnically diverse of the cohort.
So it's a bit of a -- it cuts against several grains of usual narratives. Why that may be, I don't know. It doesn't seem to me that there's a huge influx of very conservative vocations, so much as there seems to be a collapse both theologically and politically among people who describe themselves as progressive or liberal.
BASH: Well, and do you have any idea why that is?
WHITE: I don't know. I have a couple hunches. One of the things that's interesting about it is that it's a trend that seems to be fairly consistent going back decades. So it's not a new thing. It's sort of showing up more distinctively now.
BASH: In the U.S.?
WHITE: In the United States and just among priests, yes, correct. But the exact causes, I don't know. We're hoping to do some more research to find out some of those answers.
BASH: And America is home to the world's fourth largest Catholic population, which actually is more than I thought. I would think that other countries would be bigger. So given that though, how much influence do the American Cardinals, who are in the Conclave right now, have on the outcome of who the Pope is going to be?
WHITE: I think you're right that it's fairly unlikely that we'll have an American Pope, but that doesn't mean that the American Cardinals in the American church in general aren't influential in the Conclave and in Rome in particular. America has a very large Catholic population, as you noted. It's a very wealthy church. It's also a church that has resisted some of the strains of secularism that you've seen in more of the developed world in recent years. There's sort of more liveliness and kick still in the American church than in other places.
So for a lot of reasons, the church around the world might not be eager to put the Americans in charge of one more thing by electing an American Pope. But I think they're very much interested in what the church in the United States does and where it goes.
BASH: So knowing what you know about the 10 Cardinals, 10 American Cardinals who are there, what kind of influence do you think that they will have? What sort of flavor of influence?
WHITE: Well, it depends. They, they're, they're very different men. And they come -- some are brand new, some -- this isn't their first go round, as it were. I think they'll be looking, if we can assume that none of them are a frontrunner or likely to be elected, I think they'll be looking to build coalitions and trying to help the other cardinals to make the same decision they are, who is the best man for the job. And I think they'll probably have differences among them on who that would be. But we'll probably never know.
BASH: Let's talk about the Catholic population beyond priests, but every day Catholics. 20 percent of U.S. adults identify as Catholic. Only 29 percent of U.S. Catholics report attending mass weekly. How much does who the Pope is, who their Cardinal is, affect how American Catholics pray and how often that they actually go to church?
WHITE: For most Catholics, it doesn't seem to make much of a difference at all. The numbers you cited aren't great. They've been slumping a little bit lately. It's been sort of a long but slow decline. I think what happens at the local level in the parish matters more. And there's of course, a trickledown effect. A long pontificate or change in the pontiff can spur that somewhere. But it's more downstream. Most Catholics interact with the faith in their family, in their homes, in their local communities, and at the local parish level. So that's where it matters the most.
BASH: I'm a Jersey girl. I know that the Cardinal from Newark, even though nobody thinks including you, that it's likely that they'll be an American Pope, why is his name coming up?
WHITE: Who wouldn't want to see a Pope from Jersey?
(LAUGH)
BASH: Good answer. You're now my favorite guest.
(LAUGH)
WHITE: No, I think he's been influential. He's seen as sort of a more of -- the more progressive of the American Cardinals. But he tends to sort of hang back and he's pretty good at building bridges and making friends with people who aren't necessarily ideologically aligned with him or theologically aligned with him. He's got some Roman experience. He was over there for a while before he was appointed in Newark.
[12:55:00]
BASH: How -- is that an important prerequisite?
WHITE: Yeah, the Pope has to manage the Roman curious (ph). So it's important that he knows how Rome works and that he speaks some Italian at least. The trick is to find someone who's enough of an insider that they know how things work and can control things, but enough of an outsider that they're not beholden to the machine. So good luck finding someone like that.
BASH: Yeah. Well, that's their job. So good to see you. Thank you so much for coming in. Appreciate it.
WHITE: Appreciate it. Thank you.
BASH: Thank you. And thank you for joining "Inside Politics" today. "CNN News Central" will start after the break.
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