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Cardinals Inside Sistine Chapel Voting for New Pope; White Smoke Signals a New Pope Elected; New Pope to Emerge from the Balcony. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired May 08, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Today on "Inside Politics" waiting for the sacred signal. The anticipation is palpable as the world stares at that faithful chimney, knowing that at any moment now, we could see white smoke. Plus, President Trump is celebrating what he calls a major trade deal with the United Kingdom. But is it as significant as both the White House and Great Britain claim.

And reputation rehab Joe Biden is hoping to reset the narrative of his presidency, especially the end of it. He just wrapped up his first U.S. interview since leaving the White House, and we have all the highlights. I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines and "Inside Politics".

And you are looking at live pictures of that all-important chimney at the Sistine Chapel as we anxiously wait to see if there's a new Pope. The 133 Cardinals sequestered inside are expected to be on their fourth or fifth ballot, which means smoke could start billowing at any moment.

Of course, no one knows if it will be black smoke like earlier today, or white smoke, which means that a new Pope has been elected. The suspense is building because Pope Francis was elected on the fifth ballot back in 2013 Pope Benedict IV in 2005. I want to get straight to CNN's Erin Burnett, live in Rome, right in the center of all of the action. Erin, walk us through what's happening right now.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: All right. So, Dana, first of all, the reason I'm holding this microphone, even though I have this one on, is because if there is white smoke, which there could be at any instant, the sound that will erupt here in St. Peter's Square will be just simply overwhelming.

So, you can see, and we'll show you, but you've got tens of thousands of people here. Last night, they said there were about 45,000 we're getting up to those numbers now, of the number of people who have come into this square, because we are firmly in the windows of when we expect votes.

And as you just said, fourth or fifth ballot we may -- our Christopher Lamb, as you know, our Vatican Correspondent thinks that we're probably into that fifth ballot in the Sistine Chapel, which is right over my left shoulder, behind that building. That's where the chimney is, that's where the Cardinals are right now.

And Dana, the reality of it is, in the Sistine Chapel, there's not debate, there's not dispute. There's not talking, there's just voting. And so that is what is happening right now. So, we believe that possibly, most likely, they're on the fifth ballot, which means there will be smoke, and that smoke will either be black, no Pope, or it will be white. There is a Pope, and truly could come at any moment. And it is a palpable feeling of excitement and anxiety in the square right now.

BASH: I can't even imagine, because you could feel it all the way here in America to be actually there in St. Peter's Square. You talked about what will happen when there is white smoke. And I love that you have the double microphone, because we know how loud things can get.

BURNETT: Yes.

BASH: But as there is that anticipation right now, what does it feel like?

BURNETT: It is -- you know, Dana, I sort of think back to moments being at the Queen's funeral, which, of course, was a funeral, and yet it was a gathering of people that were gathering for celebration and for joy and for something good. And that's what you feel here, although here there's a level of excitement under it as well, because it is going to be the beginning, the commencement of something new.

And you feel that. And you know, this morning, there's two sort of voting windows. So, the first one happened, the black smoke came out. Well, then people left, not everybody, but some people left, and now they have been steadily flowing back in. You clear security. We haven't seen any sort of bag checks or anything like that, but you clear security, and then you come into this area and people gather.

And then -- and then they're stuck in there for excruciatingly long periods of time. Many of them have large, almost life size crosses. When you see small religious groups come in. People are praying the rosary. People, of course, are on their phones. People are taking pictures, but it's sort of -- it's celebratory, it's celebratory and yet also respectful.

If I could combine those words, you know, it's as if you're at a concert, but it's a totally different vibe to say the least. But people are ready. They are ready. And if they are here, they will witness history.

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And Dana, as we're talking, we're watching the Sistine Chapel smoke the chimney, and those seagulls have been part of the story here for the thousands of people waiting because there's something to watch, right? There are big screens up here. You can see the chimney from the square, but you can also they've got big monitors up. And frankly, people are watching the seagulls and the baby seagull, which, of course, has its own sort of, you know, perhaps symbolism in the context here of new birth and a new Pope. For many here who are deeply religious, and others who, of course, are just tourists, who are here to be part of history.

BASH: Those seagulls, I mean, at times it's one seagull, and now, as you said, there's looks like the mother and the baby. They have absolutely become, I'm sure you've seen it there. I mean, you get to see it in person, but online, it has become a whole thing. And yes, I love --

BURNETT: Yes.

BASH: -- I love the symbolism of those seagulls.

BURNETT: And you don't see baby seagulls very often. I mean, you know, you just -- you just don't. And now you've got tens of thousands of people just watching these seagulls live their lives on top of the Sistine Chapel. It's -- you know think about what's right underneath them. It's pretty -- it's pretty incredible.

BASH: Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, seems to be a message or 2 or 10 in watching them. Erin, thank you so much. We'll talk soon. Joining me now is Katie Prejean McGrady, CNN Vatican Analyst and the Host of "The Katie McGrady Show" on Sirius XM, the Catholic Channel. And Erin mentioned that we of course have CNN Vatican Correspondent, Christopher Lamb who was there as well.

Katie, I'm going to start with you, because the first thing that we will learn about the new Pope is the name, the name that he will choose. What will that tell you about the personality and the impact that that new Pope intends and hopes to have?

KATIE PREJEAN MCGRADY, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: I think it's the first signal the new Holy Father gives to the world of the kind of Pope he wants to be. Francis, famously, was told by an older Cardinal, don't forget the poor, and he chose the name Francis. John Paul II when he was elected in 1978 after the tragic sudden death of John Paul I said he wanted to continue in the stead of JP1 who had taken those two names for John XXIII and Paul VI.

Benedict XVI, a lot of people were a little surprised, because we hadn't had a Benedict for quite some time. And Benedict XV, of course, had been many, many years before, but was a stabilizing Pope and Benedict was very much a continuation of a John Paul legacy. So, all this to say, the name signals to us.

This is the guy, and this is kind of what he's maybe got on his mind. It can also be an indication of maybe a personal devotion that he has, maybe a particular virtue that he wants to signal to the world. But it's the first introduction to the man before we can go Google all the things about him or find the videos or the tweets or learn about his career and his CV, and I think we see it. Sorry --

BASH: Here we go. That certainly, looks like smoke and white smoke it. MCGRADY: Is it white smoke?

BASH: It is. We're going to -- we're going to watch it. I'm going to go to Erin. And Erin, as I toss to you, obviously the crowd there thinks that that is the white smoke, but I know we're going to wait for the bells.

BURNETT: It looks as if it is Dana. It is clearly white. And we have seen the black smoke, which was clearly black, so I think we can say this is white smoke. And they have selected a Pope.

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: To me, and that means the Cardinals have chosen a Pope, the 267th successor of St. Peter. And shortly we will find out the name of who the Cardinal has -- Cardinals have elected, and who, which name the new Pope will be taking.

BURNETT: Yes, and we are watching and everyone to breathe it in the white smoke here over the Sistine Chapel, here at the Vatican and the crowd, you see some of the celebrations, the emotion you can't not feel, the emotion being here to see something like this. I feel a little shaky, to be honest, to witness such a thing, and the joy of so many people white smoke, as they will soon say Christopher -- we have a Pope.

LAMB: Yeah. Incredible excitement. It was the crowd that really saw the white smoke first, electric atmosphere as the smoke came out, and it was clearly white as it filled out form the Sistine Chapel chimney, a real sense of joy and excitement here an amazing moment.

BURNETT: Joy and excitement. And as that smoke comes out now there is that means there is a Cardinal who is now a Pope, who has accepted the mantle of St. Peter Christopher and will be going to the room of tears.

LAMB: That's right. Well, he will be asked by the Cardinals, do you accept?

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And he has to say yes or no. And then they ask him, what name will you take? And he has to say which name he will take. And then the Cardinals all come up and make an oath of allegiance to the new Pope, and then the Pope will go into the room of tears, which is, it's called that because it's a room where, traditionally, Popes, you've been just, have just been elected, are overwhelmed by emotion. And then you'll be fitted into the white pass that they have three sizes small, medium and large.

BURNETT: And these are the bells we are now hearing. And you can see this right over St. Peter's Basilica. Over our shoulder, we will show you. You can actually see the giant bell ringing, and that is the formal announcement and confirmation that there is a new Pope here as the Head of the Catholic Church in Rome.

And now what happens is we wait with this joy, right? But now there is the anticipation of who, no one knows, who the new Pope is, who has just been selected and elected, until we see that man walk out on the balcony with the red curtains behind us here on St. Peter's Church, we can all see.

So now, in these next minutes, as we await that Christopher, I would imagine the tens of thousands of people who are already here. Now, these bells are ringing out over Rome. People will come. More and more people will come to perhaps be among the very first to see the Pope, who won't know who it is until we see his face.

LAMB: He will be introduced to everyone at the same time.

BURNETT: Yes.

LAMB: And it will be the Cardinal Deacon, the Proto-Deacon, Dominic Mombatti, who will announce it. Of course, if it's not him announcing it, then he could be an exit. But we are expecting Cardinal Dominic Mombatti, the Proto-Deacon, to make the announcement. He will then give the name of the Cardinal that has been elected Pope and the name that the new Pope has decided to take.

BURNETT: Yes. And that tradition of taking a new name started with the first Pope, of course, St. Peter, a name no one has taken since in his honor, but he was born Simon. And of course, we have here at St. Peter's Basilica the very first Pope. Father Edward Beck, Passionist Priest, is joining us now.

So, Father Beck, here we are. This we presume fifth round, fourth or fifth. It's unclear exactly which round it was of voting a new Pope on the same day that we found out the last two Popes had become a Pope. So, what does this mean in terms of who the man is? Who is going to walk out on that balcony within the next half an hour?

FATHER EDWARD BECK, CNN RELIGION CONTRIBUTOR: So exciting to be here to witness this. And I think it means either of two things, either it was one of the front runners whom we've been considering with the names, or I do think there are rumors. These are rumors Italian rumors that it's possibly an Italian who has been elected and that it is not someone we've necessarily been talking about, could be a surprise.

So, I'll be very interested to see who walks out on that balcony. And also, it will be interesting to see what they wear. We know that they wear the traditional white cassock of the Pope, but if you'll remember Pope Benedict, he -- it didn't fit him exactly, so he wore a white alb, but he wore a Red Velvet Mossetto with Ermine. So, it was a very regal, very traditional kind of ensemble that he walked out on the balcony with.

Pope Francis dispensed with all of that, he came out in simply the white Sutton, the white cassock, and he said, when a -- you know, very informal, and he greeted the people and asked them to pray for him. So, the tone of what we see and the dress of what we see, I think, will be very important, but we can be prepared for a surprise of someone we haven't been talking about, I think. But again, it could be one of the front runners. Nobody knows. These are old rumors.

BURNETT: Nobody knows, and we may not know for a long time, if ever. Christopher looking back at Pope Francis and some books that were written about how it happened for him, it also happened at this time, either this vote or the one we're not exactly sure whether this was the fourth or fifth round?

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But you see how you start with a few front runners you could have four or five, and how the votes moved.

LAMB: Yes.

BURNETT: For it to have happened, I understand the past two times it did happen this quickly, but for it to happen this quickly, it does mean groups of people need to move behind candidates very quickly.

LAMB: Yes, and I think that's how the Conclave is set up. The first vote kind of sets out where support lies, and then it very quickly becomes a two-horse race, because Cardinals shift their support to the leading candidates. And that's why you do get a result swiftly when it comes to a secret ballot.

BURNETT: Yes, a secret ballot. And watching these bells and this beautiful sound ring, the feeling of a pure sort of a celebration. Ben Wedeman is here, also in St. Peter's Square, surrounded by people, and Ben, at that instant when they saw the smoke, what happened?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There was a great cheer, a cheer of joy, because so many people here have been waiting since yesterday to see the white smoke we saw the black smoke at midday, and anticipation is growing as the day goes on.

So, what we heard was this great cheer of relief and joy as we saw that great plume of white smoke emerging from the chimney on top of the Sistine Chapel. Now, of course, I think you already mentioned, we don't know if this was the fourth or the fifth round of voting since yesterday evening, we have yet to see.

We don't know, of course, who the new Pope is, but we knew. We do know habemus papam we have a pope, as they say in Latin. So, we'll have to wait and see. All eyes will be on the Basilica of St. Peter behind me to hear the name of the new Pope, Erin.

BURNETT: And thank you, Ben. And Christopher part of the reason that we don't see the new Pope immediately is, I'm sure, part of the pomp and the circumstance and the tradition, but also a certain level of practicality. The Pope is going into the as you said, to see which vestments fit, there must be a moment of reflection and then putting those on.

And I can imagine, in a sense, the silence in that room into what they know will be the cacophony of this square --

LAMB: Yes.

BURNETT: -- and the preparation. And also, does everyone who would be Pope and certainly, if it's a front runner, I presume the answer to this is yes, because they knew they might have to be, but the name selection.

LAMB: Yes. Well, I think as the votes show that a candidate is getting closer to election, then the candidate starts to think, well, what name would I choose? Some partners, perhaps, think about that name a bit. I think as it becomes clearer that that person could be elected, they start to think, well, what name could I choose?

And Pope Francis, he chose the name St. Francis of Assisi, because the Cardinal next to him, when it was clear that Pope Francis will Cardinal Begoli will be elected, said to him, don't forget the Pope. And that made him think, well, I'll choose St. Francis of Assisi, who was the Saint of poverty and humility, and that's why he chose that name.

BURNETT: And Elise the first time anyone had ever chosen the name of Francis as a Pope. When Pope Benedict Joseph Ratzinger picked his name, he picked someone more of a Pope he had admired in the past, one of the founders of the monastic life. So, it fit with who he was and what he wanted. There is so much in a name, which, as we are all sitting here waiting all of this is playing out just behind us right now, behind closed doors, but about to emerge.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, all the tens of thousands of people here, as you can see, are waiting to see who this man is going to be? And what his name is going to be? Because, as you said, so much is in a name, Francis in choosing the name Francis of Assisi, often called the poor man of Assisi was emblematic of everything that Francis wanted to embrace and promote in his papacy.

You know, this promotion and embracing of the poor and the marginalized. And so, we're going to see what the next Pope chooses as his name and what kind of road map that might be to the future of this pontificate.

BURNETT: And Katie McGrady is with us. Obviously, our Vatican Analyst, you have been with us so much over these past few days. But as we are -- don't know whether this was vote four or vote five, but here we are. What is happening right now? What do you think is happening right now as the man who is going to be the Pope is about to be introduced to all of us here and to the whole world watching?

MCGRADY: And the whole world is watching. I actually just got a text message from my daughter's second grade teacher. Of all the kids in class watching the live stream because they're excited to meet the next Pope. As they're tallying the votes they would be keeping count inside the room, and as soon as whoever it was crossed that 89 threshold. They obviously keep counting, but that man begins to feel the weight of this.

[12:20:00]

And then he's asked, do you accept what is your name? And then he's given a moment to collect himself and go to what's known as the room of tears. It's kind of this little side room I know Christopher and Elise have been in that room off the Sistine Chapel, where he'll choose the size the shoes, what does he wear? And he gives himself, hopefully, a minute to collect himself, to think about, what am I going to say?

How am I going to greet the faithful? To feel the weight of this moment, and it's called the room of tears, because it'd be completely reasonable to believe he probably cries. If we think about it, a Pope is a Bishop of Rome of course, this figure on the world stage. But whoever walks out on that loggia was ordained a priest, served in a parish, rose the ranks. I mean, here's a guy. He's feeling all of that right now.

BURNETT: He is. And I think anyone out here, regardless of your religious persuasion, you would have to admit, you felt a lump in your throat. I mean, it is -- it is you feel it. It is -- it's a beautiful thing to see so many people who are so happy. Ben is with people who are celebrating right now in the Square. Ben and now awaiting to find out who the Pope will be.

WEDEMAN: Yes, I'm with Brother Renault from Toulouse in France. And what is happy?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am happy. We have the Pope. We have the Pope habemus papam say in Latin. And now -- and now, we ask -- we are. We are so, so happy to be here at Rome today. And so, what -- and so what? I am -- I wait -- I wait for the -- foresee the face of the Pope of the new Pope.

WEDEMAN: Brother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no, no, no.

BURNETT: I trust you guys -- stay here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sorry for my English.

WEDEMAN: Is there somebody who want to be Pope?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am French, so if the Pope will be French.

WEDEMAN: He's saying it would be if the Pope is French, it would be a good thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God -- God has chosen a Pope for us. The Pope will be the Pope.

WEDEMAN: I can't disagree with you on that front. Thank you, brother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're welcome.

WEDEMAN: So, there we have a very happy brother of the Dominican Order from Toulouse, who is very happy Erin to have a new Pope, even though he does not know who that new Pope is Erin.

BURNETT: Three simple words that capture the moment. I am so happier. Four simple words, as he said. So Christopher, we watch. We wait. More and more people are flooding into the square. We can see they have certain walk paths, and we can see people flooding in because now they want to know who the Pope is. So, this is going to happen for the next 15 or 20 minutes, and then on

that balcony behind us, and wow, we have a view of that.

LAMB: Yeah.

BURNETTT: On that balcony, as you said, they will say the formal words, habemus papam we have a Pope. And then what happens?

LAMB: Well, so the Cardinal will come out, and he will make this announcement in Latin. He will say, I have -- we have news of great joy, habemus papam, we have a Pope. And then he will do the formal title of the Cardinal who gives the first name surname, and then say in Latin, who has chosen the name, whatever that is.

BURNETT: We hear his baptismal name first?

LAMB: Yes.

BURNETT: And then we hear the name that he has chosen to be his name as Pope.

LAMB: His baptismal first name and surname, and then the name as he is his Pope.

BURNETT: And then he steps aside and out walks --

LAMB: -- out walks the new Pope.

BURNETT: The new Pope to a field of joy and with a weight, with a new weight on his shoulders.

LAMB: Absolutely and I think you know, you mentioned earlier that there's sometimes a moment that's taken between the election and coming out onto the balcony. I'm sure the new Pope may want to take a bit of time in prayer and reflection, able to think about what he's going to say to -- expect him to address the crowd, say a few words. So, of course, there's some time that will be taken from election to --

BURNETT: Yes.

LAMB: -- appearance for the first time.

BURNETT: Of course, this is a human and a mortal man stepping into this moment. Father Beck we are -- we are seeing images here of people celebrating people's emotion. You heard that priest from Toulouse with simple words, I am so happy.

BECK: And you know what's interesting, the Dominican that Ben was talking to, if you'll notice what he was wearing. It looked very much like what the Pope wears.

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And indeed, it was a Dominican Pope who was elected, Pope Pius V, who decided that he wanted to wear his Dominican habit. So, he came out in the Dominican habit. And it's believed that that's where the tradition in the 1500s began of the Pope wearing that exact thing that we will see him wear today.

So, it's so maybe prescient anyway, that Ben is just talking to a Dominican, because the actual dress comes from that tradition. And of course, again, what we see when the Pope comes out, I think we have to look at all of the optics, what he's wearing? What his demeanor is? What he says? Of course, who he is?

Because we've heard a lot about these candidates. But then we were surprised by Pope Francis, because his reputation before he was elected was a little different from the man we saw. He was known as stern, very authoritarian. He wasn't popular with his Jesuit brothers.

I know Jesuits when he stepped out on that balcony, they said, oh, I can't say the word on air no, because they couldn't believe that this was who was elected. They were really afraid of it. And then we saw what happened with Pope Francis. So, the Pope can surprise us, and it can be someone exactly whom we expect. You just don't know yet.

BURNETT: No, we don't know. And the name that he chose, though, of course, became synonymous with who he was as a Pope. And Elise that is why this name choice is so significant. It's in the case of Joseph -- right? It did project what he believed a Pope should be and what he wanted to be. And we may that's really maybe one of the only clues that we get of how this person perceives their new role.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, yeah, it shows who is their point of inspiration. You know, who, which Saint in their life is inspiring to this Pope? What does he aspire to be? What kind of qualities does he want to embody? What does he want his ministry to look like?

We have to look to the life of that Saint in some of their writings, perhaps some of the things they're most known for to see what might be inspiring to this new Pope. And of course, you know how that might shape his own ministry going forward, because that really is a big indicator.

BURNETT: As we see the crowd celebrating, let's go back to Ben, you are somewhere near us. Ben, amidst this crowd. I don't know, obviously, if we can see you, but I know you are surrounded by this jubilation.

WEDEMAN: Yes, indeed. Now, Erin, we are joined by Connie (ph) from Southern California, who has been here in Rome for a week and was here last night waiting for the white smoke. Now you saw the white smoke. How do you feel Connie?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So happy. So exciting. Big moment. Amazing it feels like the Holy Spirit here and all the people waiting for this big moment. And I'm so excited. I'm hoping so the Pope has the same line like helping the poor, facing the world, and helping the immigrants also, so supporting them.

WEDEMAN: That sounds like you're looking for somebody like the late Pope Francis? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely yes, because he was very humility and looking for the poor and for the needy.

WEDEMAN: So, do you among the most Papa Billy, the Pope able candidates? Do you have a favorite?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think the Philippines. I don't know.

WEDEMAN: Louis Dugley,

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, yes, that's what I think, and I'm hoping. But wherever they choose, I 100 percent that is got to choose him. So, we're going to support him and go with it.

WEDEMAN: And you're from Southern California, you've come all the way across the United States, the Atlantic Ocean, to be here for this special moment?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For this special moment, yes. And I'm like, so happy, very happy today. Yes.

WEDEMAN: Okay. Thank you very much, Connie, and enjoy the rest of your stay here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you very much. I'm so excited, so happy. Yes, we have a Pope yeah. Thank you.

WEDEMAN: Thank you, Connie. So, Erin, I don't think you're going to find anybody in this crowd who's not thrilled that there is a Pope. I don't know what all of this commotion is behind me, but obviously another happy crowd, happy that we've seen white smoke, happy this, that habemus papam, Erin.

BURNETT: Yeah, habemus papam as they say, and yet, and another person that you're speaking to with just those four simple words, I am so happy. Perhaps the simplicity of it, the joy of it, does capture the moment, for so many. David Culver, also among the crowd. David just heard that commotion. Everyone for, I think, an instant thought perhaps the Pope is early coming to the balcony.

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