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Trump Signals Openness To Raising Taxes On The Rich; America Celebrates Leo XIV As First Pope From U.S.; JFK's Nephew Weighs In On First American-Born Pope; "MOSE" Barrier Makes Rising Water Levels In Venice "Manageable". Aired 12:30-1p ET
Aired May 09, 2025 - 12:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[12:33:31]
DANA BASH, CNN HOST: There's one thing Republicans have been consistent on for decades. It's their strong opposition to tax hikes on anyone at any time. But now the president is signaling he may be ready to change that.
We are told that the president in a phone call with the House Speaker on Wednesday raised the idea of letting the taxes -- tax cuts on the wealthiest Americans expire. That would help pay for some of the spending cuts that they want to get to and other tax cuts as well.
So that is a big question now whether or not they will really consider this in the United States Congress run by Republicans. Traditional Republicans, they don't want to do that. Listen to the Senate Majority Leader John Thune.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R), MAJORITY LEADER: We don't want to raise taxes on anybody. I mean, we're about lowering taxes on Americans. The president's emphasis, a particular emphasis on working Americans is one that most people appreciate.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
BASH: The panel is back. Phil?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: It is a very difficult moment for Republican leadership right now. Not just because of this issue, but because reconciliation bills are really hard. Finding pay for us for reconciliation bills is really hard, particularly when the president's priorities which are red lines for this White House and tax on tips is being kind of the critical.
When we think about the campaign, there's several of them are quite expensive. This is reality based in the sense of they need revenue. This would be something that would raise revenue.
[12:35:00] This is politically I think something that tracks because there is a kind of populist right-wing element not just in the White House, but also pushing on the White House to pursue policies like this. The difficulty is I don't see how you could find Republicans in the House or Senate that would go this direction.
What makes it far more difficult is the fact that when the president posted about it this morning, he was like, well, I mean, I don't hate it. I don't love it. Maybe we'll do it. I don't really know, which is the last thing that Senator John Thune or Speaker Mike Johnson need in this moment, like they need him to say yes or no.
BASH: Yes.
MATTINGLY: And then go forward from there.
BASH: Although it's a trial balloon. I mean, this is --
MATTINGLY: But it's already floated it twice.
BASH: Yes.
MATTINGLY: And then killed it himself and then how did his advisers kill it and then House Republicans killed it. And now it's back and now he's wishy-washy on it. And that's where it gets complicated.
BASH: Yes, I understand. That's a really good point. And you mentioned, Phil, the idea that this is also coming from the newer wing of the Republican Party, which is the more populist part, particularly part of the MAGA base and that is led by Steve Bannon. Listen to what he said on this idea.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
STEVE BANNON, PODCAST HOST & FORMER TRUMP ADVISER: You extend the tax cuts for the working-class and middle-class. You give them the additional tax cuts and millionaires, I think President Trump's concept is the million people making 1 million and above so it's not the whole upper bracket, they increase to 40 percent.
But I think they're -- you know, the carried interest has got to go away, this whole phony thing about putting your stock in these foundations tax-free has to go away. I actually think there should be taxes on financial transactions. I think there's all types of populist economic policies.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: And I guess this is what I'd say based off of what Phil was saying and Bannon, everything else. It's May 9th, the Republicans have been projecting that they would get this bill done by the end of May. I don't think that that is likely at the moment.
This is complicated in all sorts of ways. They don't have a big margin. It's a couple of votes in the House that they can lose. House members are saying they can't trust the Senate. Senate members can say, they can't --
BASH: So it's a day that ends in Y.
DOVERE: It's a mess. Yes.
BASH: Yes.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Also, how are they going to reach the cuts that they want to reach --
BASH: Yes.
BARRON-LOPEZ: -- which is they can't do it unless they start cutting things like Medicaid, which is a whole other thing.
BASH: But that's what they're -- I mean I don't know how much this revenue this would get but that's part of what they're trying to grapple with --
BARRON-LOPEZ: It could --
BASH: -- is to get more money.
BARRON-LOPEZ: But Steve Bannon himself has also said, he's pushing Trump obviously on raising taxes for the wealthy. But he's also saying, you better not cut Medicaid --
BASH: Yes.
BARRON-LOPEZ: -- because that impacts our voters as well.
BASH: Yes. And as we go to break, I just want to put a reminder up, Grover Norquist who has been getting Republicans to pledge no tax increases for years, he got 191 House members and 44 senators to make that pledge. So they would literally have to go against that pledge to go with this idea.
Coming up, I will speak to a member of America's most prominent Catholic family about the decision that Church goers around the globe are still stunned about.
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[12:42:29]
BASH: On a watershed day for American Catholics, I bumped into the country's most well-known member of the Catholic Church. Now, Joe Biden and in classic Joe Biden fashion, we talked where else on Amtrak.
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BASH: What do you think about an American Pope?
JOE BIDEN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's great. And I think he's a good friend of Francis. And, you know, I think he's going to keep moving the church in the direction of being more ecumenical and reaching out. And I think that's all good.
BASH: I mean you're the only -- you're the second Catholic American president and now we have the first American Pope. Did you ever think you were going to see that?
BIDEN: Well, it doesn't surprise me, but it seems to be a great deal.
BASH: Thank you, sir.
BIDEN: Thank you.
BASH: I know this is your stop.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
BASH: It was quite literally his stop. The former president exited at the Joseph R. Biden Jr. Railroad station in Wilmington, Delaware.
Joining me now is Mark Shriver, he's a member of the most prominent American Catholic family in U.S. history, maybe until yesterday. And he's also the author of the book, "Pilgrimage: My Search for the Real Pope Francis."
I really want to talk about that in a minute, but I do want to play a soundbite from your uncle --
MARK SHRIVER, NEPHEW OF JOHN F. KENNEDY: OK.
BASH: -- President Kennedy and this is him talking in September of 1960 about how his political faith and his religious faith intersected or didn't.
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JOHN F. KENNEDY, 3TH U.S. PRESIDENT: Contrary to common newspaper usage. I am not the Catholic candidate for president. I am the Democratic Party's candidate for president who happens also to be a Catholic. I do not speak for my church on public matters and the church does not speak for me.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
BASH: So that was a very famous speech that he gave. He broke a massive barrier as the first Catholic president as I mentioned. Joe Biden, 60 years later, became the second.
SHRIVER: Yes.
BASH: What does it say to you knowing the importance of the sort of Catholic faith to so many Americans, prominent or not, that there is an American Pope?
SHRIVER: It's incredibly exciting. I mean, if you were going to bet in Vegas on an American Pope, you would have gotten a lot of money yesterday and you would have made a lot of money. So it's super exciting. But this guy I think is unique. Clearly born and raised in Chicago, went into the seminary in ninth grade. But he moves to Peru and he spends two decades in Peru.
[12:45:04]
So he maybe is the first international Pope. I mean, obviously, Francis was from Argentina. But this guy is born and raised in America, moves to Peru, then gets moved to Italy. So he has an incredible experience all across the world. And I think it's a bridge and he's talked a lot about bridge building and talked about unity yesterday when he became Pope.
So I think it's a -- he's definitely an American, White Sox fan. But he's more than that. And I think he's a great choice for the future of the Catholic Church.
BASH: What is his rise mean to your family who are very -- for the most part, very devout Catholics?
SHRIVER: Well, thank you. You know, I think the answer is, this Pope and Pope Francis, they don't fit into a box. I think, you know, in American politics, we want to make him Republican or Democrat, Progressive, Conservative. But what I found writing the book on Pope Francis is that they are devout followers of Jesus.
And Jesus was pretty radical and this Pope talks about love. His first thing is peace be with you. His second statement is, God loves you unconditionally. Loves everyone unconditionally. So as a Catholic that is a huge challenge. You have to love your enemies. You have to love your neighbor.
And there, you know, a couple years ago when Arthur Brooks gave the talk up on Capitol Hill at the prayer session, he talked about loving your enemy and then President Trump said he didn't agree with it. So he's a -- this Pope's going to challenge everyone whether you're a Republican or Democrat, whether you're from America or anywhere in the world because he's follower Jesus.
BASH: You mentioned that you wrote a book about Pope Francis, which is so interesting. You really spent a long time talking not just about his doctrine as Pope but how he got there.
SHRIVER: Yes.
BASH: You sort of traced his life. Knowing that and knowing that he was close with now Pope Leo, what is -- what window does that give you into the kind of Pope we're going to see going forward?
SHRIVER: I think, you know, we -- you talked a little bit earlier on the show. He's named himself after Pope Leo the XIII, who really is the leader of Catholic social teaching, who talked about the importance of unions, talked about the importance of jobs and jobs that paid good salaries for people all across the world.
Pope Leo XIV got up there yesterday. He talked about love. He talked about peace be with you. And he is talking about unity on an ongoing basis, building bridges. So I think we're going to see, I believe, a lot of the stuff that Francis talked about, the importance in the environment about going to the margins.
Peru is not Chicago and he -- Pope Francis picked this guy from Peru. He's a Peruvian as well as an American. Clearly speaks Portuguese, Italian, English. He's talented, but he's a International Pope as well as an American. So it's super exciting and he's going to be super challenging just like Pope Francis was.
BASH: Thank you so much for being here, Mark Shriver.
SHRIVER: Thanks for having me.
BASH: Appreciate it. Nice to see you.
SHRIVER: Nice to see you.
BASH: And coming up, Venice is sinking. But is the fact that it's flooded with tourists and even bigger threat than rising waters? We're going to take you to the city of canals after a break..
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[12:52:43]
BASH: Save Venice, it's a popular refrain often repeated by tourists who see rising seas and waterlogged streets as a threat to that floating City. But for those who actually live in Venice, the water is no longer the greatest threat to their city and there's one main reason why?
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ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: So many people feel they have to come to Venice before it sinks or it floods.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I think people will still have a lot of time until Venice really sinks. So people should really stay calm.
HILL: You don't have to rush.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, yes, you don't have to rush.
HILL: It's not going under water.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not yet.
HILL (voice-over): Not yet, thanks to this engineering marvel, the MOSE. A first-of-its-kind barrier system hidden on the seafloor. When the water is forecast to reach a certain level, the 78 floodgates are raised, closing off the lagoon and the city from the sea.
Since coming online in 2020, the MOSE has dramatically shifted the impact of an aqua alta on Venice.
HILL: The MOSE, the barriers came up today. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
HILL: What does that change for San Marco?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So it changes a lot, especially the shops are not underwater anymore.
HILL: Right. So this is manageable now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's manageable.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
BASH: And Erica is here now to talk about this episode of The Whole Story coming up on Sunday. Boy, this must have been really tough to go in Venice and you know --
HILL (on-camera): It was a tough assignment. Maybe my best pitch ever.
BASH: Yes, well done. Well done. But it actually was interesting to hear him say and he didn't say don't come but he was effectively saying, we're good. You don't need to come right away.
HILL (on-camera): Yes. And he was saying you don't have to rush because there's this sense I think for a lot of tourists. This is sort of like Machu Picchu, right? I have to get there before it gets closed again. I have to get to Venice before it sinks.
So the reality is the water issue right now is, is basically manageable because of those MOSE barriers, right, and some other measures that have been put in place. The larger threat right now, and what we really mean when we're say -- when we talk about saving Venice what we heard from the locals is the larger threat is to the city itself, to the Venetians, to this community because of over tourism.
[12:55:03]
So many people are coming, that it's overrunning the city and it's also leading to less available resources for the locals who want to stay and want to make their life there.
BASH: And yet I'm sure it's a very delicate balance because the locals want to maintain their life, but they also need tourism to maintain that --
HILL (on-camera): Yes.
BASH: -- life particularly when it comes to the economics.
HILL (on-camera): You're absolutely right. And this is a city that really leaned in in the 70s in the 80s. They leaned in. And so tourism is the main economic driver for Venice. So when you talk about saving Venice, it's a question of, how do you save their most important industry while also saving the soul of this city so that it doesn't become, as a number of locals told me, their fear as it turns into some sort of an amusement park? BASH: Yes.
HILL (on-camera): It's no longer livable. It's just there for show.
BASH: Yes. Well, let's hope that never happens. Erica, I cannot wait to watch this. Thank you so much for bringing us a sneak preview.
Join Erica Hill for Saving Venice, an all-new episode of The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper. One whole hour, one whole story this Sunday at 8:00 p.m. Eastern only on CNN.
And thanks for joining Inside Politics. CNN New Central starts after the break.
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