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Inside Politics

Trump's Lightning-Fast Approach Hits Major Speed Bumps; New CNN Poll Shows Dems' Challenges As Govs Call For Action. Interview with Rep. Josh Gottheimer (D-NJ); Republicans Brace for More Backlash Over Trump's Megabill; RFK Jr. Under Scrutiny As He Upends COVID Shot Recommendations. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired June 01, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(MUSIC)

[08:00:34]

MANU RAJU, CNN HOST (voice-over): Reality check.

President Trump pops --

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Would you rather have a 40 percent or a 50 percent?

RAJU: -- as he fends off checks on his power.

TRUMP: Radical left, crazy judges.

RAJU: And as Republicans get an earful. Are more cuts coming?

SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): Well, we all are going to die.

RAJU: And digging out as Democrats look to 2028, a brand new CNN poll this hour on the challenges ahead.

GOV. WES MOORE (D), MARYLAND: We must be the party of action.

RAJU: And as a blue state shifts towards Trump, what is the winning path for Democrats?

We're live with Congressman Josh Gottheimer, who's running for governor.

Plus, whiplash. Are RFK Jr.'s personal views impacting your access to health care?

INSIDE POLITICS, the best reporting from inside the corridors of power, starts now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU (on camera): Good morning. Welcome to INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. I'm Manu Raju.

President Trump has spent his second term moving at lightning speed to expand his own power, with little concern for legal constraints. But now, he's facing new consequences as his move fast and break things strategy faces its toughest test yet and threatens to paralyze his agenda. A looming court decision over his unprecedented tariff policy still not stopping Trump from adding new levies this weekend, and his powerful ally Elon Musk leaving Washington without accomplishing what he set out to do.

We saw more proof that the second term president values loyalty above all else. All this as we have a brand-new CNN poll that you will see first here this hour on Americans surprising views on both parties.

There is a lot to unpack this morning with my excellent panel. "The Washington Post's" Dan Balz, Amy Walter from "The Cook Political Report", and CNN political director David Chalian.

Good morning. Great to see you guys. There is so much to discuss about this past week. There's so much to discuss almost every single Sunday morning.

But Trump, just to give an overview of the blowback that Trump has faced in the courts, just from this past week, the mass firings on hold in several agencies, his tariff policies. Yes, they can move ahead for now, but there have been blocked by two courts. And we'll see what ultimately happens here.

Then there's this fight with Harvard and his effort to try to ban foreign students from going to Harvard. A judge stepped in there and said, can't do that. The Trump administration's bid to deport Columbia student activists likely unconstitutional, according to one judge.

And the trying to go after these elite law firms, Democratic aligned law firms, and the court said no.

When you look at this, Dan Balz, big picture, what is the impact on the Trump agenda? Is there a real risk here that he's going to be stymied in trying to accomplish his objectives?

DAN BALZ, WASHINGTON POST CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think he is being stymied. I don't think there's any question about that. But at the same time, as you said in the opener, he's moving at such speed that that he is getting things done. He is changing in many ways, the face of government and to some extent the face of the country. How much he will be pushed back on that? We don't know. I mean, the courts give him some victories, but they hold him up in a lot of ways.

But there's a long way to go on the adjudication. And in the meantime, while that adjudication is underway, he is able to continue to push forward. Accumulate more power around the presidency and do the things he wants to do. So, I think the jury is still out on what the effect is going to be.

There's no question that he's fallen significantly short of the big, bold promises that they've laid out. But he is making progress on changing the country.

RAJU: And it's this PR battle they're trying to wage now, going against the courts. Even Trump-aligned judges are being attacked by Donald Trump and his administration. This is just some of the Trump judges who have blocked his efforts over the last couple of months since he became president. Again, just these are people that he appointed in the first term. What do you make of this attack? The strategy to go after these judges?

AMY WALTER, PUBLISHER & EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, THE COOK POLITICAL REPORT WITH AMY WALTER: So, this is -- right, this is the Trump strategy, as always, which is when he gets frustrated, he lashes out. But it's also an attempt to intimidate those who would dare to push back on him and to send a message to others that if you do cross me, there will be a price to pay.

[08:05:06]

For many of these judges, though, especially those who have lifetime appointments, they have a little more ability to hold on that others would not. But look, I think the whole strategy of the Trump 2.0 is this, which is you just swing at every pitch, sometimes you're going to strike out, sometimes maybe you'll only get a single, but you may get a couple of home runs in there.

And the whole point is to just keep swinging and swinging and swinging. And at the end of the day, I think what a lot of voters are feeling, to Dan's point, is they're not really on top of what actual changes are happening, but what they do see is action. And what you hear so much, especially when I'm listening to focus groups, is this idea that at least he's trying something. At least he's moving forward as opposed to getting caught up as legislators do in the minutia of actually trying to pass legislation.

The reality is, Donald Trump could get a lot of things done through legislative activity, but that is not what he would like to do, because that takes time. And he's not going to get exactly what he wants.

RAJU : And to continue the baseball analogy, its if he's a 300 hitter, he's in the hall of fame. That means he's missing. He's getting out seven out of ten times.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I think the political challenge or potential problem for him is when -- if the action ends up looking to voters like chaos and if the action produces things that they feel sort of negatively in their lives impacts them. So, like with this big, beautiful bill, if indeed he gets this big legislative accomplishment. But cuts are impacting people's lives in a way his own voters to I'm talking about, that could be a potential political problem for him.

So, I agree, there's no doubt he is -- the Trump project is underway. He is changing the country. Theres no doubt about that. I think that we still don't yet know if voters at the end of the day are going to see all of that as, yes, its action and he's doing something, therefore it's good or no, it's action and chaos and potentially bad.

BALZ: And don't you think that much of that's going to hinge on what the tariffs ultimately without do the economic issue still looms so large. This off again/on again tariff policy is driving everybody quite crazy.

WALTER: The anxiety. So much of what we're seeing in terms of the data, especially on economic concerns, is anxiety that something bad is going to happen. They're not necessarily feeling it yet, but they have an anxiety that something is going to happen. So when does anxiety turn to either anger or it goes, oh, well, maybe that wasn't so bad.

RAJU: Yeah, I mean, look, and sometimes maybe hell be successful in, in ultimately in the Supreme Court. I mean, he's had some potential. He's already had some early victories. He's won everything that's gone to the Supreme Court.

But there's just a handful of things, even in the past week, allowing the suspension of deportation of migrants from Cuba, Haiti, Nicaragua and Venezuela. I mean, this is the play, right? Just fight it out, win some of these in the lower courts. If you lose but the conservative Supreme Court, maybe the end of the day saves you.

CHALIAN: Which is why all of our eyes are going to be on Chief Justice Roberts and Amy Coney Barrett for the entire month of June, as all these opinions come out, and in seasons forward as well. And that's why, to your point about him lashing out or, you know, going after the conservative Federalist Society leader Leonard Leo and the judges that he appointed, it is a little bit a shot across the bow also, for some of the Supreme Court justices of what he's looking for in return. I have no doubt that that's part of the mission of his public posture on this issue.

RAJU: So while this all happened this past week, we saw the end, at least at the moment of Elon Musk's tenure in Washington. The Trump and Musk, they try to put a good spin on all of this. They're on the same page. They had that appearance in the Oval Office even after Elon Musk criticized the so-called Big, Beautiful Bill. Didn't think it was nearly went far enough.

Also indicated he was not going to spend nearly as much money in the campaign as he did to elect Donald Trump this time around. But last night, there was an interesting development. Trump actually decided to withdraw his pick to be the next NASA administrator, who was a Musk ally in all of this.

In fact, Elon Musk had tweeted about Jared Isaacman, who was the nominee. It is rare to find someone so competent and good-hearted. Trump withdrew this nomination last night. There's some just some speculation here that this is a signal of Trump and Elon. Either a risk with a rift with Musk or the sign of the new chapter post-Elon Musk, you have some new piece out this morning about Elon Musk's impact on Washington as well.

BALZ: Yeah, and the impact was far less than he had projected when he came in. He said he was going to cut $1 trillion out of the budget, and then he scaled that back to a trillion. And, you know, according to the DOGE website, it's 175 billion. There's some question about whether that's real.

I mean, it's kind of a metaphor for everything we've been talking about, about the first months of the Trump administration. The interesting thing about the NASA, the decision early on in, in the presidency, in this second term, there was this question of, well, is Musk like co-president or is he really running things? And this is just another signal of, you know, President Trump indicating who is truly in charge of Washington and the administration. And it is not Elon Musk.

RAJU: And we'll see how Elon Musk ultimately responds to this. That was a very intriguing development late last night. Saturday night news from Donald Trump.

All right. Coming up next, a brand-new CNN poll out this hour. Which party is actually connecting with the middle class and much more?

Plus, how can Democrats win back Trump voters? I'll ask one who's trying to pull it off, ahead.

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[08:15:25]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOORE: If he can do so much bad in such a small amount of time, why can't we do such good? Let's not just talk about an alternative. Let's not study an alternative. Let's deliver the alternative.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And that was Maryland Governor Wes Moore, a potential 2028 contender, in South Carolina this weekend in trying to offer his party a path forward. And this morning, we have a brand-new CNN poll that shows what voters are thinking about both parties.

David Chalian joins me here at the magic wall to take us through this poll.

So, David, what are the key takeaways?

CHALIAN: Yeah, this is where we left off on election night 2024. But we wanted to get a sense of where Americans are right now. And one key trend we're looking at here, Manu, is should the government do more or is the government trying to do too much? Fifty-eight percent in our new poll of Americans now say the government should do more. That is a 30-year high --

RAJU: Wow.

CHALIAN: -- that we have seen. So, what's driving that? Why are so many fewer Americans saying that

the government is trying to do too much? Well, as you might imagine, we're seeing that movement among Republicans who are in charge of all aspects of government right now.

Look at this huge drop from August of '23, 73 percent of Republicans said the government was doing too much. That was when Joe Biden was president. Now, it's down to 57 percent.

But we also see this decrease in those saying government is doing too much among independents as well. We also wanted to test where the country stood with the parties on various issues. Okay?

Crime and policing is by far and away the Republicans best advantage. R plus 13 now, R plus 14 a couple years ago.

But look at the economy and immigration. Two key Trump issues. You see, it's still a Republican advantage. But you see that advantage is narrowing on both of those key issues. This gets to what Amy was saying, I think about some of the anxiety people have about the economy over the tariffs that we were talking about, a dead tie on world affairs and where the Democrats have the edge, education, abortion and climate change.

We also took a look at some key attributes. This is how Americans sort of see the parties. Which party is better described as the party with strong leaders? Look at this.

RAJU: Wow.

CHALIAN: Sixteen percent of Americans say Democrats, 40 percent say that of the Republican Party. Now, overall, no party is doing great. Lots of Americans say neither of these qualities apply to either party.

But look at how much worse off the Democrats are. A party that gets things done. Only 19 percent of Americans say that about the Democrats, 36 percent say it about the Republicans.

In fact, the only place that the Democrats are numerically ahead. Party of the middle class. This is basically a tie, though.

RAJU: Yeah.

CHALIAN: Thirty-four percent say that of Democrats, 32 percent say that of Republicans. But this, I think, is the most fascinating. How do partisans talk about their own party? So, among Democrats and Democratic, leaners, 32 percent say Democrats are the party with strong leaders of their own kind, right?

RAJU: Right.

CHALIAN: Eighty-two percent of Republican and Republican leaders say that about the GOP.

Only 41 percent of Democrats say that they're the party that gets things done of their own kind. And I will just say 51 percent, Manu, a majority of Democratic and Democratic leaders say neither party gets the party that gets things done attribute.

Imagine that is the whole -- that's the project that Democrats are working on.

RAJU: Yeah.

CHALIAN: And beyond the issues here, there's some structural problems with the Democrats as well.

RAJU: There are.

CHALIAN: And again, this is where we ended up on election night in 2024. This is by county. Obviously, these were the results.

But what I want to show you on this next map is we have this amazing opportunity. Donald Trump, a candidate three times in a row to look at those three successive elections and take a look here among the shifts that we saw across the country, everywhere you see, red, here is a place that Donald Trump improved his performance from 16 to 20 to 24.

Now, he lost some of these counties. He didn't win all of them. But you see how much more red there is than blue places where you know, Clinton did better than Obama, Biden did better than Clinton, and Harris improved on that. Far fewer places in America than when Donald Trump increased his vote share over those three successive presidential elections, Manu.

RAJU: Yeah, there's a lot to chew on there. David Chalian and joined in. My panel is back here as well.

Amy, what do you make of that? I mean, for the Democrats, we've seen bad poll after bad poll, yet another bad poll, and some of this is this is apathy among their own voters who just don't think their party's getting it done.

WALTER: Yeah. Now, listen, some of this is a hangover from the frustrations of the last two elections. And the frustration about Biden, right, that he really was not present for the last year or so in their minds as a president.

[08:20:09]

So the last person they remember is Joe Biden. They didn't feel like he was a strong leader, and now they're not seeing anybody fill that gap.

The second is when you're the out party, you're always frustrated because we don't have a -- we don't live in a country where we have opposition leaders. Theres one person who's tagged as being the voice of the party. You don't get a leader of your party until a presidential election when you get a nominee, and that's the face of your party.

So, everybody now, he showed what was going on in South Carolina. Everybody's trying to, on the Democratic side, be that voice. But I think it speaks to a bigger challenge for Democrats. They have spent the last eight years being the party that is the anti-Trump party. They haven't been the party that is the pro fill in the blank party.

So they've been very much defined by Donald Trump, not defined by what they want to be.

RAJU: I mean, Dan, in your time covering politics, you've seen Democrats in the minority before. Have they ever been this much in the abyss?

BALZ: Well, you could go back to the late '80s --

WALTER: Yeah.

BALZ: -- when they -- when they lost three consecutive elections by huge electoral margins. And they went through a long period. It took a number of years for the party to regroup. And Bill Clinton ultimately brought them out of that.

What we are not yet seeing right now is the same kind of kind of intellectual self-reflection about what are the problems of the party, what do we do about those? How do we negate or minimize the things that people don't like about Democrats? And how do we maximize the things that people may like about Democrats?

That process has barely begun, if at all. Theres so much talk about who is the leader, but in a sense, before you can say who is the leader, it has to be what are we about, as Amy was saying, and right now, the Democrats are not they're not -- they don't have any consensus of what that's going to be.

CHALIAN: and there is this internal conversation to the point that you're making. You hear Democrats say all the time, the anti- Trump thing can be sufficient here, but that is what presents this challenge, that they haven't -- they are not tackling that in the way -- absent Trump, I think they would be forced to tackle that in a way. But because of the anti-Trump energy that they tapped into 2018, that prevented 2022 perhaps being as bad as they thought it was going to be, there are some Democrats that are just very focused on harnessing that anti-Trump energy as the way to the promised land without doing that important work.

BALZ: Well, and there and there are a lot of rank and file Democrats who want that to be the focus.

CHALIAN: Right.

BALZ: They want -- they want the leadership to the extent there is leadership to focus on Trump. But the other piece has to go along with.

CHALIAN: Without a doubt.

RAJU: And we heard Wes Moore, the Maryland governor, here at the top of the segment, talking about his message as he was in South Carolina this weekend.

This is the Minnesota Governor Tim Walz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TIM WALZ (D), MINNESOTA: We didn't just lose the working class. We lost the working class to a billionaire who gives tax cuts to other billionaires. This last election, you could hear the primal scream of folks. Working class folks were in pain. They were yelling from the top of their lungs -- do something. Do something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: I mean, is that the message that these Democratic voters want to hear?

WALTER: To do something?

Yes. And what that something is, as these guys pointed out, is the big question mark. I think the more progressive or maybe it's fair to say, the more online folks in the Democratic Party just want it to be the party of opposition, to be the party of resistance versus stop focusing so much on that. Tell us what you're going to do for me.

And I think that's where Democrats really sort of lost their way. Now, you can argue that if you're the Biden administration, we did a lot of things for the working class. Look at what we did on infrastructure, look at what we did on bringing jobs back, on bringing manufacturing back.

All of those things were focused exactly on the working class --

RAJU: Yes.

WALTER: -- but we were bad at communicating, right?

RAJU: You hear that a lot. They say that a lot.

But look --

WALTER: I mean stuff, but we can't communicate.

RAJU: To that point. I mean, the party of the middle class in this poll, it is basically a dead heat between Democrats and Republicans. How they are viewed on that issue and on the economy and immigration. Yes, the margin is narrowing Republicans -- the Republican advantage, but the Republicans still have the advantage on the economy. That has to be a real warning sign heading into the midterms.

BALZ: It's definitely a warning sign. And the Democrats, you know, the Democrats are struggling to put an alternative plan together. They're going to obviously oppose everything in this, you know, basically everything in the Big, Beautiful Bill.

But I don't think that's sufficient. I mean, again, it is a broader message about economic well-being. [08:25:03]

But they also have to deal with the cultural side of our politics. And that -- and that has been a big roadblock for them. Winning back a lot of white working-class voters, which are now Latinos and some Blacks.

CHALIAN: Yeah. And young -- and young voters.

But which is why that last map that I was showing where you see the Democrats improving upon their performance, this is in higher income, higher educated areas in the country. The large swath of not college- educated, more working class. Thats where Trump's improving his performance over and over each cycle.

I mean, you can see why certain states just looking at that map have been taken off the battleground map and have become really in the Trump era Republican states.

RAJU: Fascinating discussion. Great.

Interesting poll numbers, please dive in. More of that you can see on CNN.com.

And coming up for us, he's a Democrat trying to win in a blue state that has shifted towards Trump. Congressman Josh Gottheimer joins me on his bid for governor. And that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:30:34]

MANU RAJU, CNN HOST: In 2024, New Jersey swung more to the right than almost every other state in the nation. And now they're holding one of the most important races in this off-cycle year, the battle to be the next governor, an early referendum on President Trump and the state of the Democratic Party.

Primary day is next Tuesday. And a crowded field of 11 candidates had spent an eyepopping $77.5 million so far in ads.

Joining me now is one of the Democrats battling for his Party's nomination, New Jersey Congressman Josh Gottheimer. Mr. Gottheimer, thank you so much for being here on this very busy morning for you.

REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ): Good to see you.

RAJU: Absolutely. We have a new poll out this morning that really shows the depths of the problems facing your own party right now. Just 16 percent of Americans say Democrats are the party of strong leaders, and only 19 percent say the party can get things done. That is far worse than where the GOP stands.

So six months after the last election, why are Democrats still unable to connect with the American public?

GOTTHEIMER: Well Manu, first of all, thanks again for having me. I think, you know, I've been in -- I go around diners all across

Jersey because its Jersey and we do everything good starts in a diner. And what I hear from people is a huge focus on economic issues, right? People are struggling, whether between utility bills and their taxes and food prices and what Trumps doing with this chaos to sending prices even higher and messing with their retirement savings.

So people are under a huge amount of stress. And you know what I'm hearing here in Jersey, all I can talk about is people see what's going on with Trump and the chaos. And they want actually an alternative.

And the key for Democrats and this is what my whole race is focused on, is actually showing them that Democrats are focused on making their lives more affordable, getting costs down, getting taxes down and showing them a pathway forward where they don't have to have this anxiety, which I think was why the election last time was so, you know, so close here in Jersey and obviously why the ultimate poll didn't go well for Democrats.

RAJU: But as you have been going around these diners, how damaged is the Democratic brand right now?

GOTTHEIMER: Well, I think what they want to hear is that what's our vision, not just, of course, that we're taking on Trump, which we are and I am. We got to fight him everywhere and any time he messes with a family here in Jersey. We're standing up to him.

But they also want to know where we're going, right. What our direction is. And I think that's the key there is all about the economy and showing them that that's our number one focus.

Can you afford to feed your kids, put clothes on their back, pay your bills, you know. With housing prices and rents where they are, people are really struggling. And I think our challenge is and this is, you know, really what I -- that's why I've been so focused on this is actually explaining where we're going, how I'm going to lead Jersey to make people's lives more affordable here, get their costs and taxes down.

And I don't think they're getting that message nationally. It's like as your panel was just saying, I think there's some tension on actually what our message is going forward.

So I could just speak to what I'm talking to people in Jersey about. And I know it's working because they that's actually what they engage in. They want to know what are you going to do to make sure that I can feed my kids, right.

(CROSSTALKING)

GOTTHEIMER: That we're going to actually fight Trump when he messes with Social Security or Medicaid or Medicare? And whether we're going to make sure that I can afford to live here and retire here.

RAJU: Do you, though, do you blame Biden for the problems your party is facing right now?

GOTTHEIMER: Well, I think there's -- I don't know if I blame any one person. I think the key is making sure that as Democrats, that all of us could finally -- listen, it's harder when you're not in the majority.

But the key is, and I think Hakeem Jeffries has done a phenomenal job on this is where are you leaning forward and what is it about for us?

And I think when we get that together and start speaking about how where we're going to take the country and making it very clear, I think you're going to see a lot of Americans grab on to that, because what Trump is offering, right, which is just mass chaos, confusion.

Whether you're talking about what's going on at Newark Airport or what's happening to Medicaid or their retirement savings, they're panicked about what he's presenting.

The key is for us to actually show our path. That's what we're doing in Jersey and why I think this election is so important in nine days from now, showing what we're about.

RAJU: I want to talk about one of the campaign ads that you have run. New Jersey voters are now seeing across the airwaves made with A.I. showing you boxing the president. Watch.

[08:34:47]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Congress, Gottheimer got the impossible done passing infrastructure and gun safety laws and fighting for Jersey to stop Donald Trump's tariffs and chaos.

Now he's ready for the big one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So you're trying to position yourself as the person fighting but -- fighting Trump. But this is a state, as you mentioned before, it's trended to the right. In fact, a ten-point shift to Trump last year.

So if you do win the nomination next week, do you think that message is what swing voters want to hear that you're fighting Trump?

GOTTHEIMER: I think two things, Manu. You heard the first part that you played, which is that we actually get stuff done, which this president has failed to do, right. You know, I helped negotiate and pass the infrastructure bill and a bipartisan gun safety bill and expand child tax credit to help pay for child care.

Those are the things people in Jersey care about. But yes, they want to know that their governor is going to fight when someone comes in and messes with them. By the way, no matter who it is and Trump so far has come in and messed with our state. When you when you gut Medicaid, when you go after education, the

Department of Education. When you go after things we care about and that we value as a state and as a people.

Yes, they want to know that we're going to stand up and fight. But obviously, as I've got a long record of doing, when you want to work with us, we'll sit down and talk to you, right, and get things done and solve problems.

But let me be clear. You mess with us, we're going to mess with you back. And they want to know that someone's not afraid to fight and stand up for us.

RAJU: So one of your competitors, Jersey City Mayor Steve Fulop, told the "New Jersey Monitor" this week that Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill, who is also running in this race, is, quote, "A creature of the political establishment. She has the same machine infrastructure and the same playbook as was run in the last 25 years."

Do you agree with that criticism, Congressman, that Mikie Sherrill is a creature of the political establishment?

GOTTHEIMER: I agree that, you know, this is a competitive race. And Steve Fulop, who's actually a product of the Jersey City machine, where, by the way, rents are the second highest in the country and people are really struggling in Jersey City and around the state to try to get costs down.

You know, that's my focus on the issues. And, you know, listen, they're going to -- my opponents are going to keep battling each other, which I think is a mistake. I'm focused on fighting for the people in Jersey and what I'm going to do for them.

And I think that's what we all should be talking about. How we're going to get costs down, get taxes down, whether that's child care costs. And I'm the only one who's actually put out plans to lower taxes and lower costs, which is, I think, again, what people want to know, we're focused on as Democrats, both in Jersey and nationally.

I think, Manu, that's got to be our message. And that's how we win this race both in June and November.

RAJU: And if you don't want to criticize them, but are you worried at all that if one of them wins, one of your opponents wins, whether it's Mikie Sherrill or mayor Newark Mayor Ras Baraka that Trump's endorsed candidate Jack Ciattarelli could win. He lost by only three points in 2021.

Are you worried that one of your Democratic opponents, if they win the primary, could lose to a Republican?

GOTTHEIMER: Listen, I'm not -- I think this is going to be a very tough November for whichever Democrat wins. That's why I'm best suited for it. I'm the only Democrat who's ever beat a sitting Republican incumbent. I won my seat -- first Democrat in 84 years to hold my seat. And I

just won the last election by 12 points in my district. And Harris only won it by one point.

This is going to be a tough November, and I think we've got to be prepared for that. And that's why New Jersey is going to be so important. Not just, of course, in nine days, but in November.

That's why I'm the best one suited to not just win the primary, but to beat Ciattarelli very clearly.

RAJU: All right. Congressman Josh Gottheimer, thank you --

GOTTHEIMER: We'll knock them, Manu. It'll be a knockout punch, man. Knockout punch.

RAJU: All right. Thanks. I appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective. Thanks so much for your time this morning.

And still ahead, she defended Medicaid cuts by saying, quote, "We all are -- we all are going to die. And now that same Republican senator is doubling down with this sarcastic response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): I'm really, really glad that I did not have to bring up the subject of the tooth fairy as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:38:51]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RAJU: President Trump's massive agenda is on the line when the Senate returns this week. He posted on Truth Social overnight, calling on the Senate to pass this so-called Big, Beautiful Bill.

But GOP senators are at sharp odds on how to proceed, with some calling for deeper spending cuts and others fearful about the impact on the social safety net.

While many Republicans avoided town halls during last week's recess, the ones who did hold them got an earful.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERNEST: People are not -- well, we all are going to die.

REP. ASHLEY HINSON (R-IA): I received overwhelmingly positive feedback about the work that DOGE is doing.

(CROSSTALKING)

REP. MIKE FLOOD (R-NE): I voted for that bill. I voted for that bill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: All right. So Joni Ernst, the Iowa senator who said we all are going to die, was responding to concerns over some of the Medicaid cuts and the cuts to the food stamp program that were included as part of the house bill, there's a look on your screen, how significant of a pullback it would be if that bill were to become law.

And then her Democratic opponent, who was in the crowd when he heard her remarks, called her comment a, quote, "jaw-dropping moment". That was from Nathan Sage to "The New York Times".

And then amid all of this, Joni Ernst taped this video from a cemetery.

[08:44:48]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERNST: I made an incorrect assumption that everyone in the auditorium understood that, yes, we are all going to perish from this earth. So I apologize. And I'm really, really glad that I did not have to bring up the subject of the tooth fairy as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMY WALTER, PUBLISHER/EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, COOK POLITICAL REPORT: It is fascinating, I think, in this era of Trump, the idea now is never apologize, never back down. If you do apologize, you're going to lose the support of your base because they want you to be a fighter.

And look, the people who dislike you, the people who were in that audience, were never going to vote for you anyway. And then just hope that it sort of blows over at the end of the day.

But that -- it's interesting, those of us who remember the 2014 race when she was first elected we'll recall --

RAJU: With the pig and the pork.

WALTER: It was the pig and the pork. But remember her opponent really got himself in trouble because -- her Democratic opponent, by mocking then Senator Grassley as saying, you know what, he's just a farmer. He's not a lawyer. What does he know?

And she used that to great benefit by saying, who does this guy think he is that he calls people who don't have a law degree lesser? And so it is -- it sort of feels like a full circle moment, right, which is mocking this idea while also hoping that in this new era that works.

RAJU: Successful, successful tactic?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I don't know. It felt a little tortured to me. Like I'm not sure. And by the way, if you watch the full clip in the town hall, she does -- she understands the importance of Medicaid in Iowa. And she goes on to say, like, I'm just talking about people who shouldn't be eligible not getting this, but those that are eligible, Medicaid is really important to Iowans.

So she has that in. And yet that's nowhere in her response, her explanation. So just being sarcastic, the fact that Democrats seized on this line of hers without actually getting to the broader defense, I think is also a mistake on her part.

RAJU: I mean, meantime, there's -- the Senate comes back this week. They're going to try to put together this bill. There's a lot of debate and division over the house passed bill over whether it was too much spending cuts, whether it was not enough in spending cuts, whether the fact that the Congressional Budget Office says it could blow up the federal deficit.

These are the members who are currently opposed, at the moment, there are at least four of them who have said they oppose the House bill. Others, many are raising different levels of concern. We just have six on the screen, but there are far more than that.

How do you see Trump dealing with this at this moment, and what do you think, you've seen these big legislative packages and these big fights happen in other congresses. How complicated is this going to be to get this across the finish line?

DAN BALZ, WASHINGTON POST CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, it's going to be hugely complicated, but I think, you know, I think push forward to the end of the day. It will be shocking if they don't pass this. They have to pass this.

You know, the Speaker has said failure is not an option.

WALTER: Yes.

BALZ: So one way or another they're going to put together in the Senate a version of it. It will go back to the House. Everybody is going to have to take a deep breath, hold hands and walk off the ledge together. But they will -- they will do it.

But then they are going to be vulnerable to what's in the bill.

RAJU: Yes.

BALZ: And it's the -- it's all of the things that they're talking about in the Senate. Not enough cuts for people who think that there ought to be more cuts, too many cuts for people who say the safety net is going to be shredded.

And what about that deficit issue that the Republicans used to care about? So there's -- all of that's going to be what they come out with.

So it's going to be a tortured process. You're going to, you know, you're going to keep us up to date minute by minute. But you have to assume that in the end, Trump will push hard to make sure they get --

(CROSSTALKING)

RAJU: But they'll have a sales job.

Yes, they'll have a sales job. And they're trying to make something that is too big to fail for the GOP. We'll see what ultimately happens.

All right. Coming up, are Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s views on vaccines influencing your access to health care? That and other questions about his moves next.

[08:48:58]

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RAJU: Secretary Robert f. Kennedy Jr., a noted vaccine skeptic, announced this week the COVID vaccine will no longer be recommended for pregnant women and healthy children. But the CDC has some other ideas. And it wasn't his only recent move that drew intense scrutiny.

CNN's Meg Tirrell joins us now. So, Meg, how much are RFK Jr.'s personal views impacting public health policy?

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Manu. I mean RFK Jr. of course, has made no secret that he is against the COVID vaccine in comments he made before he became Health Secretary.

But one of the issues that a lot of public health experts had with this particular move about the CDC's recommendations is that we didn't have transparency into how they made this decision. The new recommendations were announced by RFK Jr. In a one-minute video posted to social media, and didn't go through the usual protocols of involving outside panels of experts in public meetings. So we didn't actually get to see their work.

And then, of course, when the CDC actually updated its vaccine schedules, it wasn't exactly what we expected. They basically just sort of softened the recommendation around healthy children, saying that they may still get the shot. It's not as strong a recommendation, but in consultation with their doctors, if that makes sense, they may still do it.

[08:54:49]

TIRRELL: But for pregnant women, the recommendation was removed. And so there's still confusion there. And doctors point out that the COVID vaccine is beneficial for pregnant women, both to protect them and their newborns.

And then in other vaccine news this week, HHS canceled a big funding award to Moderna for $600 million to develop a bird flu vaccine. "The New York Times" reported that HHS canceled a program to develop an HIV vaccine. And then, separately, this big Make America Wealthy Again Commission report was found to have big flaws in its citations that suggested, according to "Washington Post" reporting, signatures of artificial intelligence involved.

So a lot of questions around what is coming out of HHS this week, both on vaccines and the science that it's citing more broadly, Manu.

RAJU: Yes, a lot of questions about whether it's his own personal views or actually the science that's driving these changes in policy.

Meg Tirrell, thank you so much for breaking it down for us, really appreciate it.

And that's it for INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. You can follow me on X @mkraju. You can follow the show @INSIDEPOLITICS and follow me on Instagram @manu_raju.

If you ever miss an episode, you can catch up wherever you get your podcasts. Just search for INSIDE POLITICS.

Up next, "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JAKE TAPPER AND DANA BASH". Dana's guests include House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries, White House budget director Russ Vought and Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy.

Thanks again for sharing your Sunday morning with us. We'll see you next time.

[08:56:06]

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