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Trump Facing Unprecedented MAGA Blowback Over " Epstein Files"; Trump: "Nobody Cares About" Epstein; MAGA Faithful Disagree; Trump Sending More Weapons To Ukraine, Gives Russia New Deadline; Trump: Putin Talks "Beautiful" Then Will "Bomb People At Night"; ICE Prepares To Use Influx Of Funds To Ramp Up Deportations. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired July 14, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

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DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Today on Inside Politics, MAGA revolt. President Trump says nothing to see here on Jeffrey Epstein, but many in his base, they're not buying it, after he and some top officials spent years telling supporters Epstein's death is at the center of a massive conspiracy.

Plus, we just heard from President Trump, who said, he's losing patience with Russian President Vladimir Putin. And this time, he says he will back up those words with weapons. And after brutal election losses, what is the Democrats path back from the wilderness? My conversation with a man who masterminded multiple democratic comebacks over the past 30 years.

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

President Trump and his top aides are scrambling to calm a MAGA mutiny. Some of his core supporters see a deep state cover up inside his own administration over convicted child predator Jeffrey Epstein, who officials say killed himself in prison in 2019. Attorney General Pam Bondi says there's no conspiracy, no incriminating client list and no evidence that Epstein was murdered. At a right-wing conference of Trump supporters this weekend, the anchor anger boiled over.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE BANNON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: Epstein is a key that picks the lock on so many things, not just individuals, but also institutions, intelligence institutions, foreign governments, and who's work and who is working with him on our intelligence apparatus and in our government. This is why it's a time for choosing now.

JACK POSOBIEC, HOST, HUMAN EVENTS DAILY: And Pam, if you can't do your job, we'll find someone who will.

BRANDON TATUM, CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: How many of you guys think by raising your hand that the government is not telling us the full story about what happened with Epstein? All right, I'm in the right place at the right time. MEGYN KELLY, HOST, THE MEGYN KELLY SHOW: I have nothing against Pam Bondi, but if you want to look for the villain in this story, we have found her.

CHARLIE KIRK, FOUNDER, TURNING POINT USA: Why are we not impaneling a special prosecutor to find every single one of these powerful people that went after these kids?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: President Trump tried to calm the storm with a lengthy statement saying, in part, what's going on with my boys and in some cases, gals. They're all going after Attorney General Pam Bondi, who is doing a fantastic job. We're on one team MAGA, and I don't like what's happening.

Let's not waste time and energy on Jeffrey Epstein, somebody that nobody cares about. But that may have backfired with some prominent MAGA voices and supporters, making their displeasure known right there on his Truth Social post.

And we have new reporting on what's going on with the backlash from CNN's White House and Justice Department teams, FBI Director Dan Bongino, who fanned the flames of this conspiracy theory as a far- right podcast host, could be on his way out. He threatened to quit unless Bondi was fired. Sources tell CNN that the president was infuriated by that, and maybe it has caused irreparable damage and a rift between Bongino and the White House.

I'm joined by a terrific group of reporters, CNN's Manu Raju, Seung Min Kim of the Associated Press, CNN's Isaac Dovere and Alayna Treene, also of CNN. Alayna, what are you hearing from your sources about what is going on right now with this rift? It's really remarkable.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: It is. And the reason I think it's so remarkable, and what I've been hearing in my conversations with sources, is this idea that you really never see the president not have his finger on the pulse of the MAGA movement.

You always see them kind of -- that's one of his, you know, I was chatting about this at the White House with some of our colleagues who worked there with me as well, that, you know, that's one of his superpowers, that he always knows where his base is and they kind of move as one. And you've seen now the president.

You saw it last week in his cabinet meeting, when he said Epstein is old news. You saw in that post that he did over the weekend that you just read, trying to tell everyone to move on from it. The problem is, they're not going to move on from this. This is an issue that is so much bigger, and part of it is because it's one of their own makings.

[12:05:00]

I mean, you have not just his supporters, who have been, you know, having these kind of ideas potentially, you know, who was on the client list. Are there any potential co-conspirators that had been with Epstein? Are there other people who are need to be held accountable through this?

I know, you had the Vice President, J.D. Vance, you had Bongino himself, Kash Patel himself. All argue that they thought that was the case, and now, all of a sudden, people aren't buying the fact that perhaps, OK, we're done. You have a page and a half memo. That's the end of this.

And what I'm hearing from inside the White House is they really do believe that if they continue to just say, let's move on from it, people will move on. But everyone in the MAGA movement that we've spoken with are saying that's just not going to happen this time.

BASH: It's so interesting. Is it that he doesn't have his finger on the pulse of the MAGA movement, or is it that the MAGA movement is not listening to him? I know they might be a distinction without a difference, but generally speaking, the president has been able to listen but also control.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. I mean, we saw that he's got agenda through on Capitol Hill. When it was those folks on the right, for the most part, who did not like what he was doing, they ultimately caved, even his most MAGA aligned supporters because Trump essentially forced them to cave. This is different, because this is a louder group of folks who have a gigantic media following, gigantic following on social media, and they're making clear they don't like what Trump is saying.

The question that I have is that, you know, how much is this? Is this very small faction of people who have big megaphones? Is it much broader than that within the GOP? But I think what's clear, though, is that what Trump is saying is not going to be enough. He has to address this much further. He can't just simply put out one Truth Social post and think that's the end of it.

And part of the reason why is that, you know, Pam Bondi said a few months ago, this is on my desk. I'm going to review this right now. What did she mean by that? So, she has to answer those questions too, to least alleviate some of those concerns.

BASH: Yeah. I mean, she said last week that what she meant wasn't that she had the client list on her desk, is that she had the file. But definitely that is true. Let's just look at a little bit more of what we're hearing from some of these people with very loud megaphones.

Charlie Kirk spoke to who hosted that summit that we just played. Spoke to the Washington Post. He said their trust in government is zero, speaking of the -- lot of the supporters of the president. The only reason they were able to succumb themselves to engaging was because of Trump.

And that's talking about new people, new voters that Donald Trump and some of his other Republicans who were on the ballot were able to engage in politics in the first place because they ginned up conspiracies and got them very interested in politics because of things like this, and now Kirk and others are saying, they'll be disheartened. SEUNG MIN KIM, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, AP: Right. I mean, in their eyes, President Trump and his administration are becoming part of that government that they don't trust, which is why this is so problematic. For the White House, I do think the jury is still out on, you know, whether the president is ultimately able or not able to kind of quell these concerns and bring them on the board at the end of the day.

But, you know, Alayna referred to this for a little bit, but it does really show the problem with, you know -- you know, giving oxygen to these conspiracy theories. So, this really is a -- for lack of a better term, a cautionary tale for the White House and for the president.

And I was really struck by what former Governor Chris Christie said over the weekend. When he says, what Donald Trump is learning is that when you start the fire, sometimes you can't put it out. So, I don't know if I'll actually internalize that lesson from this episode, but we'll see it.

EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: It's also the Epstein conspiracy, ultimately, is about people who think that there are some rich elite group of people who had their own club, did their own thing, live by their own rules, and got away with it. And Donald Trump, part of his appeal is that he's like one of those guys, but who then was going to break open the system for everybody.

There are pictures of Donald Trump with Jeffrey Epstein. It's not like there's no links between them. In this case, though, you have him coming into power after years of himself and his allies stoking all of this. And then, all of a sudden, in a moment, saying, actually, there's nothing here to see here.

And without any explanation, without this explanation that Bondi has given for what she said --what she meant, when Kash Patel said that the files are sitting in the director's office of the FBI. Now he is the FBI director sitting in that office. They have no rationale that they have been able to lay out for what this is. And therefore, it then plugs right back in comfortably to what this conspiracy was.

BASH: Which is?

[12:10:00]

DOVERE: Which is -- which is, that it's just powerful people protecting each other. Whenever they are under threat, they will hide it. And that Trump again, was that his whole political essence for a lot of people is he was the guy who was going to break it open and show people what was really going on and be the truth teller.

BASH: And so that's one of the many unanswered questions here, is whether or not, these supporters are going to really blame Donald Trump. Or they are going to sort of train their fire on those who are now in those powerful positions, who had podcasts, who used those podcasts like Kash Patel, like Dan Bongino to talk about this over and over again. Kash Patel said in a tweet over the weekend that conspiracy theories just aren't true. Now we think those conspiracy theories he's referring to are that he would quit or be fired, but we'll see. It's an honor to serve the president of the United States, and I'll continue to do so for as long as he calls on me perfect.

TREENE: Yeah. I mean, I think the other really interesting dynamic about this entire story is a lot of the anxiety around this and the frustration with how it was handled is not just on the outside, it's on the inside of the White House as well. I mean, as soon as that memo went out, I talked with a ton of people at the White House who said they were very frustrated with specifically Attorney General Pam Bondi on this.

And now you're hearing, of course, we're getting a look at how Dan Bongino is one of the people who is also not happy with this and kind of making it known. And we have new reporting now, and Kristen Holmes is behind some of this as well. Is that the vice president has been calling up Bondi, Patel, Bongino, to really try and get them all on the same page here because they don't want an internal crisis as well as an external one.

DOVERE: Isn't that -- we have seen over and over again that Donald Trump sees the justice department and his attorney general as his personal lawyer, does what he says. For him to say this is -- or for anyone say this is Pam Bondi and not Donald Trump, goes against all of that.

BASH: Which is why so many people aren't buying it in his orbit. All right, don't go anywhere. Up next. We did hear some breaking news from the White House last hour, and that is President Trump saying, again, even maybe more emphatically that he has lost patience with Vladimir Putin, but he is giving him 50 more days to end the war. Stay with us.

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[12:15:00]

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BASH: Breaking news from the White House. In the last hour, President Trump announced the U.S. will send new weapons to Ukraine. At an Oval Office meeting with the NATO chief, Trump said that will include a Patriot missile defense system, which will be paid for by NATO but manufactured in the United States. President Trump said, he's lost patience with Russian President Vladimir Putin but he's still giving him more time before facing new sanctions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I'm disappointed in President Putin because I thought we would have had a deal two months ago, but it doesn't seem to get there. So based on that, we're going to be doing secondary tariffs. If we don't have a deal in 50 days, it's very simple and they'll be at 100 percent. And that's the way it is. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: CNN chief international security correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is joining us from London, and CNN senior White House correspondent Kristen Holmes is at the White House. Nick, I want to start with you. You were just in Ukraine a few weeks ago. Talk about the importance of this weapons deal. How much they need it? And also, what does this 50- day deadline really mean in reality for Putin?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. I mean, these are the things that Ukraine urgently needs. Only U.S. made patriots can stop Russian ballistic missiles, and only the U.S. can authorize them getting to Ukraine. So that is urgently what is needed. And clearly, they found a way for the non-American NATO members to pay America for these weapons.

And Trump talked about them being delivered in a matter of days, not just the interceptors, but also the batteries that fire them. That's key. He even suggested there was a country that had 17 Patriot systems that weren't being used, that might be handed over. That's way in excess of what Ukraine's even asked for.

So clearly, there -- these weapons and potentially other types too. Mark Rutte talked about missiles are now going to be paid for by essentially Europe, to be given to Ukraine. That's kind of a win for the U.S. and for Ukraine as well and fills an urgent hole. The sanctions more complex. Ultimately, the 50-day deadline that Trump has given -- gives Putin until September, most of the summer to pursue any military offensive he has in mind before they might even kick in.

We've heard Trump change his mind in the past, but secondary sanctions, sanctions against Russia really forget about it. There's not enough trade between Russia and the United States for sanctions to be impactful. It's the secondary ones that might hit, let's face it, China or India the major purchases of Russian hydrocarbons. But there's still nearly two months till they might kick in. It might pressure Beijing to get Putin to the negotiating table, but it might also just give Putin space to militarily do what he wants. Dana?

BASH: Yeah. I mean, 50 days is a long time when you're determined to keep bombing a country, as he has shown to be particularly and especially under pressure from President Trump recently. And on that note, Kristen, it has really been remarkable to watch President Trump, even from the beginning of this term, come in and try to kill Vladimir Putin with kindness, turning to I'm done with this. I've talked to him four times, and every time I talked to him, or I've gotten -- almost gotten close to a deal he said four times, and every time he pulls the rug out from under me.

[12:20:00]

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Dana, it's been quite fascinating to watch, and it's something that we know that other presidents and other world leaders and other politicians, including Republicans that are close to Trump, had warned Trump about for years. But you're really hearing it coming out when President Trump is speaking now.

We know the two of them spoke on the phone two weeks ago. It was under an hour, and President Trump bristled when asked about it, saying he made absolutely no progress at all when it came to Ukraine from the Kremlin side of that. We heard that President Trump had asked for a swift resolution in Ukraine, and essentially, Putin had said no. Now here's what President Trump said about kind of coming to this realization about Putin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't want to say he's an assassin, but he's a tough guy. It's been proven over the years. He's fooled a lot of people. He fooled Bush. He fooled a lot of people. He fooled Clinton, Bush, Obama, Biden. He didn't fool me. But what I do say is that at a certain point, you know, ultimately talk doesn't talk. It's got to be action. It's got to be results.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Yeah. And at one point, he also said that all Putin does is talk. All he says is flattery, and then the next thing I know, he's bombing various cities in Ukraine. So, he's coming to the realization, again, that many before him have also come to. And just one quick point to Nick's point about these missile systems, these weapons coming over. He really has to walk a fine line here because this 180 is not just about Putin. It's also about his involvement in Ukraine and the conflict with Russia.

We've seen President Trump saying he didn't want to be involved. He didn't want to give them any more money, much more of an America First agenda when he was talking about this on the campaign. Now you see him giving these weapons to Ukraine, which is why they've come up with this solution in which he gets to say, we're not actually paying them. We're not giving them more money.

But what you heard the secretary general of the U.N. say there that was really important. Is he said that President Trump had come to the decision, or the conclusion that the Ukrainians needed to be able to defend themselves. That was him saying that.

Now, of course, that's not the narrative necessarily that Trump is going to continue saying, because he's going to say, look, we're getting money for this. But at the same time, it does give him a little bit of wiggle room when it comes to his America First agenda, and the fact that he said he wouldn't give any more money or weapons to Ukraine.

BASH: Yeah. I mean, it's so interesting. Our whole first segment was about his base being mad at him about not following through on a conspiracy theory. And there is also a swath of people who voted for him because he said he would stay out of wars and conflicts abroad. And so, these first two segments are about issues that really fly in the face of that with a lot of people who voted for him.

Thank you both for that reporting. Appreciate it. Coming up is ICE rounding up and arresting people, suspected to be here in the United States illegally based on their physical appearance alone. I talked to the White House border czar Tom Homan about that and more. Stay with us.

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[12:25:00]

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BASH: After a federal judge in California threw a wrench in ICE immigration raids around Los Angeles, the Trump administration is vowing to take it all the way to the Supreme Court. That judge ruled Friday that ICE agents need to stop detaining people based solely on race, spoken language, location or occupation. President Trump's top border official, the border czar, Tom Homan, quickly pushed back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM HOMAN, WHITE HOUSE BORDER CZAR: ICE officers and border patrol, they don't need probable cause to walk up to somebody briefly detained and question them. They just need a totality of the circumstances, right? They just got through the observation, you know, get articulable facts based on the location, the occupation, their physical appearance, their actions, like a uniform border patrol agent walks up to them at, for instance, a Home Depot.

And they got all these articulable facts, plus a person walks away or runs away. You know, agents are trained. What they need to detain somebody temporarily and question them. It's not probable cause, it's reasonable suspicion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: That list included three of the four things that the judge said, could not be the basis of reasonable suspicion. I pressed Homan on that on State of the Union,

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOMAN: Physical description can't be the sole factor to give you reasonable suspicion. As I said in an interview, it's articulable facts with an S. So, appearance can be just one. For instance, if someone has MS-13 tattoo on their face, that may be one factor to add to other factors to raise reason suspicion. I want to be clear about that again, because my words are taken out of context, physical description cannot be the sole reason to detain and question somebody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: My smart reporters are back here. Manu, what are you hearing from people on the Hill and elsewhere about how these raids, specifically in California that have gotten so much attention are playing out --

RAJU: I mean, I think this is the first phase of what we're going to see, a significant ramp up of this in Trump's term. We've already seen the backlash that he's gotten from communities in Los Angeles and other big cities and the like. But now we're going to see a huge amount of federal dollars being poured in this the Trump's new law.

The big bill had $170 billion going to the Department of Homeland Security and other aspects for immigration enforcement. ICE alone, their budget will go from $8 billion to $28 billion. It gives me that most of any law enforcement agency, and that's why there's such a big push from the Stephen Millers of the world to get this bill through, to convince people to come online because of the enormous amount of resources, so we're really heading into a new phase of this in the weeks ahead.

BASH: So, that's the -- what they're doing. And then the question still is how they're doing it.