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ICE Prepares To Use Influx Of Funds To Ramp Up Deportations; Gallup Poll: Percent Of Americans Who Want To Deport All Immigrants Here Illegally Has Fallen In Past Year; One-On-One With Rahm Emanuel; Biden Defends Autopen Use & Involvement In Final Decisions Of Term. Aired 12:30-1p ET
Aired July 14, 2025 - 12:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[12:30:00]
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: -- most of any law enforcement agency and that's why there's such a big push from the Stephen Millers of the world to get this bill through to convince people to come online because of the enormous amount of resources. So we're really heading into a new phase of this in the weeks ahead.
DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: So that's the -- what they're doing and then the question still is how they're doing it. That is another thing that I talked to the California Senator Alex Padilla about on State of the Union.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
SEN. ALEX PADILLA (D), CALIFORNIA: What if I was outside of Home Depot because I like to do some work around the house not dressed in a suit. Would I be a target of ICE enforcement under Tom Homan? Probably. And it's just wrong. It's not just due process rights that have become the concern but racial profiling when federal agents involved in immigration enforcement are using racial profiling.
They're not enforcing the law. They are breaking it.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right, right. I mean that is certainly the concern that a lot of -- that Democrats and immigration activists are raising about the tactics of the administration. And one of the reasons why the administration has been so aggressive beyond the part that this is, you know, part of the president's agenda is because, you know, earlier this year there were private complaints that ICE in particular were not meeting their daily goals or daily targets in those -- in the people who are being deported.
Which is why, you know, the money that's coming from the -- from Congress will be a major boost in those operations. But I also do think it's interesting and I know we may talk about this in a little bit but just the changing attitudes --
BASH: Yes. KIM: -- of the public on immigration that the public is actually becoming warmer to immigrants, more concerned about the president's actions and his deportation agenda. And I think it's because you hear a lot of these stories about people who are more sympathetic getting caught up in the system because of their tactics and I think that is really helping change the public's minds in a way that nothing else has.
BASH: Yes. And that's another thing that I talked to Tom Homan about is just anecdotally stories about people who are legal --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
BASH: -- in the United States getting caught up and it's because of the way that ICE is going after people and it will be stepped up on that whole question of where the public's view is right now. Gallup does a poll every year on these questions and the one that came out in June, the question is Trump's handling of immigration disapproved 62 percent but if you look at Republicans, people he cares the most about, 85 percent still approve of that.
Then there's a question of who supports deporting all immigrants in the U.S. who are in the U.S. illegally. Last year it was 47 percent, now it is down to 38 percent.
EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: This is a case of people thinking one thing in the abstract and then when the actual work is being done to crack down on immigration, it changes their minds in part because of what Seung Min was saying about people are hearing stories about this stuff, in part because when they see men with masks or the ones who are on horseback with machine guns going through MacArthur Park in Los Angeles last week, that's a different kind of feeling than when you say to people, are there immigrants in America, or are there undocumented immigrants here illegally who -- should they be removed?
And people say yes to that for the most part. It's how it happens and who it is. But we also, when you think about this, I think Manu is exactly right that we are at the outset of this.
BASH: Yes.
DOVERE: We're six months into Trump's term.
BASH: Definitely.
DOVERE: They're laying the legal predicate and the rhetorical predicate for a lot more and obviously we'll have the money to do it. When you've got Donald Trump saying, I mean we can sort of dismiss it over the weekend when he said we should strip Rosie O'Donnell for citizenship but if that mentality is in the president's head at all, that says something about how he could approach this.
BASH: OK. We have to take a quick break.
Coming up, the start of a new series exploring the path forward for Democrats. Our first guest was the White House Chief of Staff, Ambassador, Congressman, Mayor, you know who it is. If you haven't guessed, stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:38:43]
BASH: The questions I get really more than any others when Democrats want to talk to me about politics is, what's going on with the party? Where do Democrats go from here? So I decided to sit down with some veterans of the party, Democratic leaders who are trying to chart a path forward.
So who better to kick off this series than a former Obama White House Chief of Staff who served as U.S. Ambassador to Japan under President Biden, was the mayor of Chicago, who represented Illinois in Congress, and is considering a presidential run himself? I'm describing none other than Rahm Emanuel, now a CNN Analyst. I invited him into my office for a wide ranging, unfiltered conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
RAHM EMANUEL, CNN ANALYST: ?People's belief that the democratic system will work is when they think that they're not -- they got a shot, not the shaft. And they've been getting the shaft. And I -- the -- I mean, not to age ourselves in this interview.
BASH: You're a lot older than --
EMANUEL: OK. Yes. That was be very clear, lot older, OK? And wiser and more experienced there, OK.
BASH: I wouldn't go that far.
EMANUEL: OK. You used to work hard. You could get ahead.
BASH: Yes.
EMANUEL: That was a least -- if it wasn't true, you believed it to be true. Today, you work hard and you run in place and you're not going anywhere. You're just on a treadmill sweating and that to me is there is a -- there's this breakdown and democracy doesn't get restored just by access or rules or process points.
[12:40:09]
People believe in the system when they believe in their economic livelihood. And the moment mama bear thinks the cubs are going to get endangered, and not just mama bear, dad too, they get really upset and they have every right to be. And that's what's happened.
So, I believe, and I think it's very -- it's both bared out in history, you want to restore confidence in democracy, restore confidence in the American dream. The party for our ticket out of where we are is making the American dream and the middle class our north star. We didn't get in here in three years or four years, we're not going to get out of here, but we're going to work like dogs in service of that dream and make it more accessible.
It can't be called the American dream if only 10 percent of the children and young people can get access to it. Can't be. So therefore, we got to make it the American dream, meaning everybody has a shot at it. That's number one, and it's -- that's a core.
Just to give you a sense of how bad we are, Democratic Party is less popular than Elon Musk right now. That should be like a wake-up call, how bad. And the Republican Party's stabbed you in the back. The Democratic Party, we disappoint you.
And I think if you look at these numbers, the Democrats are harder on the Democratic Party than others, and the reason is because they got disappointed, and they have every right to be disappointed in the leadership. But what is interesting to me, at least going into the midterm and 2025 off year, is if you look at every special election and you look at every primary, turnout among Democrats is off the charts.
BASH: So how do you square those? People are out there voting, but they're disappointed in their leaders.
EMANUEL: Because the good news for Democrats is the voters are into winning. The leadership is in a different place. And not that they don't want to win, but they, you know, as you can -- not to take a look, I mean, look at the DNC. They spent seven months post-election, firing squad in the circle, MIA, missing from action, when this is an existential, if you believe in it, which I do.
Donald Trump is a real challenge to not only our politics, but our policy, where we are in the country, where we are in the economy. And there's no Democratic Party. But that doesn't stop Democratic voters from being energized. We got to capture that energy, focus 2026 as a referendum on Republicans and the rubber-stamped Congress.
BASH: OK, so let's --
(END VIDEOCLIP)
BASH: I also spoke with the former ambassador about foreign policy, and he offered an assessment of the so-called Trump doctrine that I hadn't heard before.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
EMANUEL: You know this, Dana. Even paranoid people have enemies. China is trying to screw us, OK? They are trying to beat us, OK. They -- here's the thing. When they say they're trying to bury us, for this moment, let's believe them.
And what would you do? It's not a theoretical discussion.
BASH: Right.
EMANUEL: They're in the middle of trying to bury us. Yes. And so I don't think -- and it's not just universities, it's the next healthcare cure for cancer. It's the next illness you have, or it's the next great innovation that will create the next Apple, the next Microsoft and --
BASH: And Russia plays into that, how? Just because it's an alliance that has been forming and is formed for --
EMANUEL: Well, Russia plays into it because, one, they said they, too, want to bury you. And second is they, on both an economic and political part, want to ensure that the United States and its allies are buried, and the system that we put up to benefit us is replaced. And we're either going to not protect but defend the system that we succeed at, or they're going to have another system.
And Russia is very clear and very overt. One side note I would take here, well, they have a conscious decision to take Europe out of being an ally and partner to the United States and making that their -- part of their geostrategic sphere of influence, which is a direct threat to us.
BASH: Is it working?
EMANUEL: I don't think it's working because you have pointed different factors, but you have to see the war in Ukraine as a direct challenge. This is what's weird to me, if I could, and we started on Iraq. We spent well north of trillion dollars.
But beyond the money and beyond the fact that it was built on a lie, thousands of men and women lost their lives. Thousands, thousands are maimed for life. And we wrote off trillion-dollar check plus.
[12:45:01]
Here, not a single American's life is at risk, not a single American will be maimed for life. And this actually is not built on a lie, it is built on a direct existential threat. And if we don't stop it here, it's going to get much more costly. And Ukraine is not asking us to fight their fight.
I don't mean to be this crass, compared to Iraq, this is a much better bargain. And we're not doing what we need to do, because if you don't do it here, Georgia leads to Moldova, Moldova leads to Ukraine, Ukraine leads to Latvia, Lithuania, and then you're going to have a challenge to the system.
BASH: But this is part of the hangover of Iraq, totally different situations. But the whole Trump doctrine, if you want to call it that, and now he's -- who knows where he is, is -- was we don't want to be in wars. And that's why a lot of people said they voted for him.
EMANUEL: I'm going to get one side note, and we'll come back at this.
BASH: Yes.
EMANUEL: Have you noticed something -- there's a couple of articles recently about the Trump doctrine -- BASH: Yes.
EMANUEL: -- that's one and done, et cetera. The only, you know, a missile hit Soleimani or a missile hit in the Trump doctrine, the only place in the world that Donald Trump has put boots on the ground and deployed troops is in America. He has never deployed troops in six years of a presidency anywhere in the world, except for Los Angeles.
BASH: It's really interesting.
EMANUEL: If you think of what a doctrine is, and the deployment of your national defense and security apparatus in exercise (ph) --
BASH: Which is in the air, but not on the ground. Yes.
EMANUEL: Yes. Soleimani, he's killed in Iraq. Iran, he bombs the nuclear facilities. And in LA, they get troops on the ground. That's the Trump doctrine. The only place he's actually put boots on the ground is in an American city.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
BASH: You can watch my entire interview with Rahm Emanuel on CNN's YouTube channel. Just scan the QR code at the bottom of your screen there.
Up next, former President Biden gives a new defense of using the auto pen. And President Trump is excited to talk about this story. We'll explain next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:51:40]
BASH: What makes a signature a signature? The hand that holds the pen? If a hand holds the pen? Well, former President Biden is defending his use of what's known as an auto pen. It's a machine that replicates the signature, and he used it on many of the nearly 1,500 commutations and pardons issued at the end of his term.
In a new interview with the New York Times, former President Biden said, quote, "I made every decision. I pulled the team in to say this is how I want to get it done generically and then specifically." And he was deliberate on the decision to not sign them by hand. He said, quote, "There were a lot of them." President Trump responded in the last hour.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I guarantee you he knew nothing about what he was signing. I guarantee it.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
BASH: And our panel is back here. Alayna, this is -- especially when things bubble up that he doesn't want to talk about, this is one of the things that he and those in conservative media have been stoking as, you know, the controversy of our times that Joe Biden used the auto pen a lot. I'm sure they are very happy with the fact that Biden talked to the Times.
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Oh, absolutely. I mean, this is something that the president has been fixated on, not just because of what it represents. And he loves to talk about it and try to show that, you know, or perhaps it shows that Biden, you know, cognitively wasn't there. I mean, that's the whole point of this, right?
But he even in private is obsessed with this idea of his use of the auto pen. And so he loves the idea that Biden did an interview and now is putting it back out there and allowing him to talk about it again. I mean, that was I mean, Isaac, we're talking about this earlier in between the break, you know, questioning why did they decide to talk about this and do this interview --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
TREENE: -- and put it back into the ether.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
TREENE: Because clearly, I mean, it doesn't matter what he said. The president is going to seize it and try to use it to make him look bad. And that's exactly what he's doing.
RAJU: And he's going to fuel these investigations that the Republicans are doing --
TREENE: Exactly.
RAJU: -- on Capitol Hill. But, look, the use of the auto pen was deemed legal by --
BASH: Yes.
RAJU: -- George W. Bush's --
BASH: Can I just interrupt you for one second --
RAJU: -- Justice Department.
BASH: -- because I want to show that -- I want to show the OLC, Office of Legal Counsel in 2005. "The president need not personally perform the physical act of affixing his signature to a bill he approves and decides to sign an order for the bill to become law." So that's, I think, why what we're hearing from Donald Trump and his allies over and over isn't just that he used the auto pen is that he didn't know he was doing.
RAJU: Yes, and how do you prove that. That's going to be the really difficult thing in these investigations. Bush used the auto pen, Obama did, Biden did, Trump did. So if they're actually going to challenge the legality of it, then a lot of things could fall by the wayside if they are successful here or -- BASH: And isn't this in large part trying to negate the pardon so that
they can go after the people who Biden pardoned, who are now immune from that?
DOVERE: I mean, that seems like some of it, the allegations of cognitive decline, another part of it, just muddying the waters. But like we were talking at the beginning of the hour about the Jeffrey Epstein conspiracy theory, right, and how it has come back to bite Trump in all the ways now.
As Manu just pointed out, Donald Trump used the auto pen. There are things, and I bet --
BASH: Well, he said it was for -- he says it's for correspondence with --
DOVERE: He used it for a bunch of things.
BASH: -- people, right.
DOVERE: There's a decent chance over the next three and a half years, he will use it for other things. Are all those going to be negated in the same way? I mean, we'll see.
BASH: Seung Min, Rand Paul -- were you just going to say this?
[12:55:09]
KIM: Yes, I was actually just --
BASH: OK.
KIM: -- pulling up the Rand Paul tweet. I mean, to that point, he said today, "I will reissue my criminal referral of Anthony Fauci," the former health official to Trump DOJ. So you see the pieces coming together.
BASH: Exactly. Yes, because --
KING: That way.
BASH: -- for people who might have forgotten, Anthony Fauci was given a preemptive pardon by Joe Biden for this very reason.
All right, everybody, thank you so much. A lot of news for this summer Monday. Thank you so much for joining Inside Politics. CNN News Central starts after the break.
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