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Inside Politics

As Trump Hits Six-Month Mark, Epstein Saga Sparks MAGA Crisis; New CNN Poll Shows Warning Signs As Trump Marks Six Months. As Trump Pushes Texas Takeover, Democrats Plot Counterpunch; Interview with Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY); One Year After Biden Dropped Out, How Much Have Dems Moved On. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired July 20, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(MUSIC)

[08:00:25]

MANU RAJU, CNN HOST (voice-over): MAGA revolt. President Trump faces the fallout over Epstein.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They're wasting their time. They're stupid people.

RAJU: Will his latest moves satisfy his base?

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: There's no daylight between the president and House Republicans on transparency.

RAJU: Or are they digging in for a fight?

Plus, six months in.

TRUMP: We're going to have a lot of good six months left. We're going to have a six and another six and another six.

RAJU: Trump is taking action on his campaign promises.

So why are Americans souring on his approach?

We have brand new polling ahead.

And Texas hold up, as Democrats accuse Texas Republicans of stealing seats to hold the House. I go one-on-one with House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries.

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: It is completely and totally unprecedented. They're trying to cheat to win.

RAJU: New reporting on Democrats' plans to counterattack.

INSIDE POLITICS, the best reporting from inside the corridors of power, starts now. (END VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU (on camera): Good morning. Welcome to INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. I'm Manu Raju.

Today is the six-month mark of President Trump's second term, milestone though overshadowed by the Jeffrey Epstein saga that has roiled his base and become a major distraction for his presidency.

The president, who stoked the Epstein story as a candidate, had been trying to bury it, but was forced to do more amid intensifying pressure from his MAGA base. And that "Wall Street Journal" report about his ties to Epstein.

Now, as he sues "The Wall Street Journal" and Rupert Murdoch now defers to the courts and releasing more info in the Epstein sex trafficking case. Has he quieted the storm, or will it make matters worse for him?

All is a president's frustration is palpable. Writing on truth social just yesterday quote nothing will be good enough for the troublemakers and radical left lunatics making the request. It will always be more, more, more.

So, there's a lot to break down this Sunday morning with my terrific panel of reporters,

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez, John Bresnahan of "Punchbowl News", Seung Min Kim with the "Associated Press", and Margaret Talev with "Axios".

Good morning to you all.

All right. So, Trump -- there's a lot on Trump's mind as there usually is. And this story very much is.

Seung Min, you cover the White House for the "AP", how bad does the White House see it. This story. How bad has it been for Trump, and how lasting will how much of a lasting impact will this have on the president?

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I mean, it's been pretty bad for the president, for the White House for these last several days. A couple of weeks now, because this is a -- this is a conspiracy that he himself and his top officials stoked during the campaign, as you said. And it's one of those issues. It's one of the rare issues where the base really hasn't been aligning with the president himself. You think that --

RAJU: So, his most loyal supporters.

KIM: Well, his most loyal supporters. But I feel like the White House, at least for now, seems like they have turned a corner with the president's announcement, particularly, you know, in late last week that they've asked the grand jury testimony and asked for the grand jury testimony to be released. Now, we have to be clear. The grand jury testimony is not the so-

called Epstein files that a lot of his supporters are seeking to release. But I think they've kind of at least punted their attention to that for now.

I found Charlie Kirk's reaction probably the most illuminating if we're looking at kind of the MAGA faithful and how they're feeling. He had been very critical up until now, but now he's telling his listeners and his supporters to really, you know, praise president Trump for asking for these grand jury testimonies to be released, even though, like we said, they're not exactly what the base has been looking for.

RAJU: And he, Kirk, himself has faced pressure from the president to move on, as well as other MAGA influencers have. And you mentioned the grand jury testimony, but who knows what will actually come out. The judge has to decide what to release. It could be part of it. It could be nothing at all. That's one thing. And then it's his response to the "Wall Street Journal story from last week.

The story, of course, about an apparent letter that the president wrote in 2003 to Jeffrey Epstein and included an outline of a naked woman that the president apparently wrote back in 2003 with the with the letter in his hand, typewritten text said, "Happy birthday, may every day be another wonderful secret."

Now, the president has denied this furiously. Now he's going to court, suing "The Wall Street Journal" and Rupert Murdoch for $20 billion. But that itself is a major risk. What if this goes to court and he gets deposed?

[08:05:02]

There could be more information that comes out against over Trump's relationship with Epstein.

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, for now, this is sort of a battle of public relations. And there's two messaging fronts and one is the base and one is the public at large. And I think one of the challenges for President Trump, at least in terms of the public at large, is going to be that he had a longtime friendship with Jeffrey Epstein before all of the criminal, you know, problems caught up to Epstein.

But nonetheless, there are photographs of them. There's a long history of, you know, Trump at one point being interviewed saying what a great guy he thinks he is. They were hanging out in Palm Beach together. They went to parties and had events together. And so as long as the story continues in the mainstream, you're going to see those pictures, you're going to see the details. "The New York Times" did a big sort of like piece exploring the relationship.

And so for the kind of the center of American voters that's problematic. For the base, it seems to be a different question, which is they were very invested in in the conspiracy and Trump himself fanning the flames back in previous campaigns, trying to say, you know, the Clintons should be looked at vis-a-vis Epstein, and now he's saying there's nothing to see here.

So, I think the lawsuit has in the short term, proved actually quite effective, because when Trump is able to turn this into a the media is trying to get me, it really seems to help him with the base.

RAJU: With the base at the moment.

TALEV: With the base.

RAJU: Yeah. And then speaking of which, this is how he has responded to that "Wall Street Journal" story. In part, he said -- in Truth Social, he said, these are not my words, not the way I talk. I -- also, I don't draw pictures.

Okay, well, fact check about that. This is what our --

TALEV: Refutable.

RAJU: Very easily refutable. Our colleague Aaron Blake wrote this for CNN just yesterday. He said, "But while Trump maintains he doesn't draw pictures, his drawings have surfaced before signed Trump's sketch of the Manhattan skyline, sold at auction in 2017 for more than $29,000. Another 1990s sketch of the Empire State Building he auctioned off that same year, and Trump in 2008, in his book, recalled donating an autographed doodle every year to charity," Aaron goes on to write.

So this doesn't prove anything, but Trump is undercutting his own credibility. He says, why lie about doodling, especially since it's so easily disprovable?

John, you've covered many scandals and controversies here.

(LAUGHTER)

RAJU: This is not 101 damage control. This is not damage control 101.

JOHN BRESNAHAN, CO-FOUNDER, PUNCHBOWL NEWS: No. And I -- you know, it's interesting reading through "The New York Times" story yesterday, I was reminded Alex Acosta, the person who cut the deal with Epstein in 2008, was Trump's labor secretary when he was forced to resign over the whole thing. I mean, this Trump has in the middle of this.

And you have a whole generation of Republican of MAGA -- MAGA -- that were raised on the Epstein case. This is not like this has been going on. This is -- he was charged 17 years ago, and then he was charged again in 2019 before he committed suicide, Epstein.

I mean, there's a whole generation. It's just not going to turn. You can't just turn us off. Plus, Bondi has Attorney General Bondi stoked this herself? I mean, I went back yesterday and watched everything she said publicly about, we're going to release all the files. I have them here on my desk. They played this up and now they say nothing is there.

This is the disaster of their own making, and I don't -- I mean, I'm not sure how much long term damage there will be. And like we were talking about before, you know, they're just dying to get to the August break, so everybody forgets about it. But, you know, this is not going away tomorrow. And, you know.

RAJU: He just simply hopes that another news story will take over the news cycle.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And to your point about Attorney General Bondi, one of the first things they did in those first weeks in office is come out with the binders and make a whole show of going and finding these Epstein files.

I think ultimately at the core of this is that it called into question among the MAGA base if President Trump is an outsider. He has always been the outsider. He has come into government as the outsider. And this was brought up the question of "who are you protecting?"

And he had fanned the flames of this conspiracy theory. But now the question is, when you come into federal government, you have to contend with what the files actually are or if they're there, et cetera. And so, this really hit at the core of who he is and how he waffles is going to be interesting to watch, because the media and "The Wall Street Journal" article sort of played again into the media is coming after me.

So, you're sort of seeing this insider outsider come to come to public display again.

RAJU: And how about the public? How does the public feel about this as well? There was new CNN polling out just a couple of days ago about this. The feelings on this is how Republicans, independents and Democrats breakdown. They're all dissatisfied.

Look at that, 52 percent of independents, of course, that key number, just 4 percent of Republicans are satisfied. Then you go break down even further. Very conservative voters are even less satisfied.

KIM: Yeah, I find that really interesting, and I find that as evidence that perhaps this isn't going to go away anytime soon.

[08:10:04]

And one of things -- one of the Republican lawmakers who seem to be poised to sign on to this discharge petition, that that will circulate shortly in the House. Eric Bburlison, he told reporters that this is the number one thing that my constituents are calling my office about. As we know, lawmakers really do pay attention to the contents of those phone calls because these are their constituents that are taking the effort to call their members and say, we are concerned about this.

So, a lot of these or several of these house Republicans who are otherwise very loyal to Trump, have to be loyal to their constituents, too. And, you know, whether this dies down, it's hard to see that happening at least over the next couple of days. We'll see over the August recess how much it dies down. RAJU: Yeah. And speaking of Republicans, it's been a question that

I've put to many of them over the past week about what Trump has been saying. He's called it a hoax. He said that he's attacked the Republicans who want this out. Calling them weaklings and going after them suggested some of them are stupid. And following that and all the rest, is that enough to quiet them down? What do they think about that?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: The president says that this Jeffrey Epstein matters, a hoax, a Democratic hoax? Do you agree with him?

SEN. ERIC SCHMITT (R-MO): I think we want to have as much transparency as possible.

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): Why don't we just release it and deal with it?

REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): Ultimately, I don't answer to the president or the voters. I'm going to answer to my maker.

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): I'm a big believer in transparency. And I think also -- just for us as a country, it's an important way to get closure. This is a bad guy. And what he did was bad. And it was also pretty extensive and involved a lot of people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: What are you hearing from Republicans?

BRESNAHAN: The same thing. I mean, this is I mean, this is a whole generation of Republicans were raised on this. This was a core issue of how the elites, there's this elites can do whatever they want. They can take anything they want, they can do anything, anybody, and get away with it. Epstein was like the perfect example of that.

And, you know, and then they thought, you know, Bill Clinton was going to the island and all this stuff. And Trump had tried to blame Clinton for a lot of this. He tried to blame Obama. He tried to blame Biden. I mean, which is all ridiculous. It's not the Democrats.

So, I mean, look there we saw some space between Mike Johnson and Trump we hadn't seen before. I mean, that was.

RAJU: Quickly tried to.

BRESNAHAN: It was like the next day he came out. It was like, because, you know, the White House complained, you know, Trump complained.

So, I mean, yeah, I think this I think it dings him. I don't know how long. And it is the Trump era. Something will happen tomorrow. I mean, something crazy will happen tomorrow. Like, oh my god, what's this?

You know, but I do think it undermines their faith. It shakes their faith in them. Is it a long term? How -- how long? I don't know, I just -- it's hard to tell.

RAJU: It is very hard to tell the story that's continuing. We'll see how long it continues.

All right. Next, we have brand new CNN polling that suggests Americans are turning on Trump on a big issue that sent him to the White House.

Plus, my one-on-one interview with House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. As Democrats plot their battle plan against a power play by Donald Trump.

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[08:17:24]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We achieved more in six months than almost any administration could accomplish in eight years, and we're going to have a lot of good six months left. We're going to have a six and another six and another six, and we'll keep going.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: In six months. President Trump has succeeded in getting institutions to bend to his will, whether it's congress, the courts, law firms, universities and media companies, often with threats that force obedience among even some of his sharpest critics. But what does the American public think about the president's unprecedented use of his executive power?

Well, brand new CNN polling out for the first time right now offers a new warning sign for Trump on his bedrock issue immigration. Just 42 percent of Americans now approve of how he's handling immigration, with only 40 percent approving of his policy on deportations, specifically, when it comes to deportations, 55 percent think Trump has gone too far. And that's up sharply by ten points since February.

My panel is back.

So just to dig a little deeper into these immigration numbers that are now just coming out, the view, if you break down by issue, by issue on immigration is how -- well, about how the American public feels. How do they feel about increasing the ice budget by billions of dollars? Just 31 percent support that idea. And it's really -- that's the number. That's the high point. We look at ending birthright citizenship, building new detention centers, detaining undocumented immigrants with no criminal record, under 30 percent in all those categories.

Then, what about his immigration policies at large? Are they making the United States safer? Fifty-three percent of the country says, no, no they're not. And then the last point here is the federal government carefully following the law on deportations. The answer, overwhelmingly, is no, 58 percent say no. And that is about a little bit higher than it was in April. Priscilla, you cover immigration. What's your reaction to this?

ALVAREZ: So, a couple of things. When the president came into office, there was deep frustration among Republicans and Democrats over the way that immigration had been handled under the Biden administration. So there was a desire for the president, frankly, to move quickly on immigration. And his team had been preparing for that for the last four years.

But the question was always, how does he do it? And how does that resonate with the American public? So, I actually think the most telling of all of those numbers is the one that's broken down between February, April and now, because there are key things that happen in the intervening months.

[08:20:02]

So in March, for example, he had invoked that sweeping wartime authority that led to Venezuelan migrants being sent to the prison in El Salvador, including Abrego Garcia, Salvadoran national. He was part of that mix.

That -- there was intense public backlash when he did that, including from some of his own supporters like Joe Rogan on his podcast, because there were anecdotes of who exactly made up that group of people, which in the end, was not all with criminal records.

Then after that, in April, you see the third country deportation. So, in May, there was that whole litigation about sending people to South Sudan and to other far-flung countries.

So, all of this to say that when you're looking at those numbers of how the disapprovals start to increase, that you should look at the moments that happened in between those months where people started to ask questions as to what exactly is going on here, and are these actually criminals that they are deporting?

And what our reporting has come to show is that a small fraction are those with criminal convictions. The majority are often those with not -- with no convictions or with pending charges, and sometimes those are traffic violations or immigration violations. And so, the big question going into the next six months, as the president put it himself, is who exactly is -- are they targeting? And then how exactly are they doing it?

And with now a lot of money on the table, it's going to happen much more quickly. This is going to supercharge their operations. I've talked to the White House border czar, Tom Homan about this, and that can get messy if they don't do it right. And what these numbers show us is that the public is paying attention.

RAJU: And perhaps it could slip even further.

TALEV: But, you know, it's interesting. Yes, these numbers are moving in the wrong direction for the president. It's clear that the average American thinks that his immigration policies are going too far. He's underwater now.

The main points of controversy are around these tough enforcement actions around otherwise law-abiding residents and so on and so forth.

But -- and I don't know if you have the cross tabs handy, these top line numbers are different than the splits among Democrats, independents and Republicans. And you still have a majority of Republicans who really support his immigration actions. Even among those Republicans, there are a lot of Republicans who have -- and we hear this again and again in focus groups. A lot of people who voted for President Trump and are Republican are like, I don't know about deporting, you know, like farmworkers, the landscaper down the street.

But having said that, at the top of the segment, you were talking about how he's wielded so much power. And this goes to the issue of gerrymandering, of the way house districts are built and of the power of the base.

If President Trump were running for reelection for a third term, this would be really problematic, those numbers. But if he is trying to control Congress and block Congress from blocking him, as long as the majority of Republican voters are standing by his immigration policies, even if the rest of the country is up in arms about it, he has leverage over his party in Congress, and they're in the majority right now.

RAJU: And then in the six-month mark, it's not just immigration where he's underwater. Maybe he campaigned on immigration. That was one of the strongest issues. The economy was as well.

And then you look at how he's doing on the economy. At least the American public sees how he's doing. Not good. This is 40 percent of Americans in this CNN poll say that he is -- they approve of his handling of the economy, and he's under 50 percent and pretty much every issue.

And even his big bill that passed Congress, just 39 percent of Americans support his massive domestic policy bill. Do you think Trump is obviously very confident of where he what he's done so far?

He's gotten these institutions to do what he wants. He's accomplished a lot in the first six months, there's no doubt about it. But there's a feeling clearly among the American public that he's overreaching.

KIM: Right. Right. I'm going to be really closely watching that number with the economy and tariffs. We know that a lot of trade negotiations are still on the table right now, whether with the E.U. or with other countries around the world.

And the president has said, look, you know, we could reach a deal or we could not reach a deal. I'll just impose big tariffs on these countries. But we know tariffs can be very destabilizing. We know it's effectively an import tax on U.S. consumers. We know a lot of Republicans don't like generally like tariffs.

So, if he does go -- if these negotiations don't really pan out, if he does go through and impose punishing tariffs on countries that he doesn't reach a deal with, how that economy number moves will be really interesting to watch.

RAJU: Yeah. And then you look at his numbers historically compared to other presidents at this time in their presidency. President Trump now 42 percent. That is below every other president other than Donald Trump in 2017.

BRESNAHAN: Yeah, he's really popular compared to 2017.

(LAUGHTER)

[08:25:02]

BRESNAHAN: You know, I listen, we did a story the other day, "Punchbowl News" did a story. They're going to try and bring up immigration bills to vote on in Congress. The House Republicans are. It's not going to pass Congress.

But this goes back to Margaret's point. They -- still, the base feels good about it. I do think that this is a huge issue, because if Americans are feeling like we're in my economic, I'm not doing better financially than I was, and I see mass guys, you know, downtown pulling people off the street. How is this helping me?

And we're spending tens of billions of dollars on this. And I think that's a huge issue here for them. You know, we're seeing just the other day there was a federal judge blocked 50,000 Haitians from being sent out of the country in Florida. And this is huge. These are huge numbers we're talking about. So, you know, it's all up in the air.

RAJU: Yeah, and as always, whenever a new single party comes in, oftentimes that single party overreaches. And then there's blowback. Oftentimes the midterms, which we're going to talk about next midterms, how Trump is using his power in Texas to give his party a major advantage next year.

I have new reporting on Democrats plans for trench warfare, in response. I'll go one on one with House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries and ask, is it worth the risk?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:30:49]

MANU RAJU, CNN HOST: There's a potential to reshape the midterms. President Trump's Texas power play with a limited number of competitive House seats, Trump is trying to expand the map, but rather than waiting for the beginning of a decade to redraw House district lines, he wants it done in Texas now to give the GOP a chance at picking up five new seats and to help cement a GOP majority for the rest of his second term.

So what will Democrats do? My colleague Sarah Ferris and I have new reporting out this morning on how Democrats are plotting, eyeing five blue states to redraw maps of their own and flip GOP seats. And so this week, I spoke with House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries

about the trench warfare.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: House Republicans have been a complete and total failure for the American people. They have no credible track record of success. That's why House Republicans are afraid of the voters in 2026, in the midterm elections and they're trying to cheat to win.

RAJU: Cheat to win. I mean, but this is what majorities do. They redraw lines.

JEFFRIES: It is completely and totally unprecedented to engage in mid- decade redistricting. That is only being done because House Republicans in Texas and beyond know they have no track record of success.

The lines for Texas have already been drawn, and in fact, they are already heavily gerrymandered. They have been ordered by Donald Trump, who is their political puppet master, to try to do everything possible to avoid a free and fair election.

That's what this is all about in Texas. But we believe it may actually backfire and that they may draw lines that endanger their Republican incumbents.

RAJU: So it sounds like you think you can get back in the majority, even if they succeed in Texas.

JEFFRIES: We are going to be successful regardless of what they do in Texas. But the principle of free and fair elections is one that we should fight for. And these Republicans are trying to disenfranchise millions of voters in Texas as part of a scheme to rig the midterm elections.

RAJU: Now, we know that there's talk now among Democrats of responding in kind, including in California, up to five seats, we are hearing about this.

Are you supportive of this effort in California, changing the lines in California to respond to what's going on in Texas?

JEFFRIES: I'm going to let the governor of California speak for himself and the people of California, as well as the leaders of the California delegation.

But in my view, all options are on the table in terms of making sure that there are fair maps throughout the country.

The people of Texas are at risk of not having fair maps. We have a responsibility of making sure that we look at every single state of the union and do what we can to ensure that we maximize fairness in those jurisdictions. RAJU: Wouldn't that be a risk, though, in California, because you have

to go through a ballot initiative to change the law? Is that a risk if Democrats go down that route?

JEFFRIES: That's an open question, and it's my understanding that some of the best and brightest lawyers in the country are looking at every single aspect of what's possible in these states, throughout America.

RAJU: In New York, I've talked to some members of your delegation, Democrats who want New York to change the maps to try to add seats, Democratic seats in New York. Would you support that effort in your state?

JEFFRIES: Let me just simply say the maps in New York are not as fair as they could be.

RAJU: That sounds to me like you're open to changing it.

JEFFRIES: I look forward to having a conversation with the governor about how do we ensure that New York maps are as fair as possible in an environment where you've got extreme MAGA Republicans and Donald Trump doing everything they can to undermine the will of the voters and undermine the principle of free and fair elections across the country.

RAJU: Have you talked to the governor yet about changing the maps before the midterms?

[08:34:46]

JEFFRIES: I speak to the governor regularly, and at some point I look forward to sitting down with her sooner rather than later once we hit the August district work period.

RAJU: You just accused Republicans of rigging the election by changing the lines in the middle of the decade. Wouldn't Democrats be doing the same thing?

JEFFRIES: It's important to understand that in Texas, there's already ongoing litigation that the map that currently exists violates the Voting Rights Act of 1965. That's litigation that we think we're on the verge of winning.

What we're committed to doing as Democrats in New York, in California, in New Jersey, across the country, is make sure that the congressional maps are as fair as possible.

RAJU: Is New Jersey another option that you're looking at, too.

JEFFRIES: I think that if you have a situation where Republicans are unleashing every malignant scheme possible to try to undermine the principle of free and fair elections and to disenfranchise millions of people in Texas and beyond that it's incumbent upon all of us to take a close look at how do we ensure that the congressional map writ large is as fair as possible in advance of the midterm elections.

RAJU: But you don't think this is the same thing as what the Republicans are doing?

JEFFRIES: Of course it's not.

RAJU: Because of why?

JEFFRIES: Because we believe in the principle of fair maps. Understand something, Manu, that Republicans wouldn't even be in the majority right now if it wasn't for Republicans in the North Carolina legislature last year stealing three congressional seats from the people of North Carolina.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU: All right. My panel is back.

So some news there. He plans to talk to the governor of New York over the August work period to recess to try to figure out if they can change the lines to help Democrats. New Jersey is clearly on their minds. We're hearing about other states as well -- Minnesota, Washington state, all these states.

This is a huge risk, though, for the Democrats, because the same problem could exist for the Republicans in Texas. They change the lines. It makes their seats more vulnerable in the general election.

Maybe if they go down, the Democrats do, they could put their seats at risk.

JOHN BRESNAHAN, CO-FOUNDER, PUNCHBOWL NEWS: But if you feel it's going to be a good 2026 for you, it's less of a risk for Democrats if Trump's in the White House. I do think there's a huge -- we're a long way from this, California to get passed Proposition 20, which they passed in 2010. It's going to be very difficult. It's going to be --

RAJU: Costly.

BRESNAHAN: Costly. A lot of money.

I think they could do this. The bare knuckle, like what it says to me is like Republicans are completely worried about losing the House. Trump is worried about it personally. He's worried about impeachment. He's worried about investigations and that he will go to any step to try and do this.

Because I covered the 2004 Texas thing when these guys fled the state to try to get -- the bare knuckle, the raw politics of this is brutal.

RAJU: It really -- it really is brutal. And I asked the speaker about -- Mike, about Hakeem Jeffries' comment. This is what Mike Johnson said about them rigging the election.

He said it's ridiculous. Hakeem Jeffries is also playing political games. He went on to say he's struggling right now to decide whether or not he's going to support the Marxist for mayor in New York City. So he's looking for distraction.

MARGARET TALEV, AXIOS SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR: Very subtle segue.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. It's something that he does not want to talk about.

(CROSSTALKING)

TALEV: Gentle pivot or something else. It was really interesting. Your interview with Jeffries was so interesting because there's quite a bit of political jujitsu around the relativism of the ethics about if Republicans do it or Democrats do it.

But I heard a couple of like this also wasn't subtle. I heard a couple of words over and over again. One was fairness -- the idea of fairness.

But the other is like one thing he said, that just is indisputable is you try to do a mid-census redistricting. The Republican Party does, like that is a really big deal.

RAJU: It's a Pandora's box.

ALVAREZ: Right, exactly.

TALEV: And the -- it bakes in the assumption that it will be litigated and that the Supreme Court will be on your side. It bakes in the assumption that you do whatever you have to do to get over the finish line in the midterms, like for people who are democracy watchers, who care about sort of the long-term health of U.S. democracy, these kind of you know, extraordinary moves are troubling long term whichever party pursues them.

BRESNAHAN: In New York, though, Jeffries was part of it in New York last cycle. So, you know, they're both -- they both do it, you know.

RAJU: Yes.

All right. We're going to have more to discuss on that.

And also coming up, what's a red state Democratic governor with a White House ambitions telling his party about the way out of the wilderness.

[08:39:21]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RAJU: Six months into President Trump's term, Democrats are still trying to figure out their next chapter. The polls tell a story of a party in continued turmoil, with just a 28 percent favorability rating in our new CNN poll. And that's down a whopping 21 points in just four years.

But the leadership vacuum is now giving an opening to some potential 2028 candidates.

My panel is back. So as they try to look at what's next for their party, there's an

audit going on. The audit, according to "The New York Times", yes, according to "The New York Times", says the audit is expected to avoid questions about whether former president Joe Biden should have run for reelection in the first place, whether he should have exited the race earlier than he did. and whether former vice president, Kamala Harris, was the right choice to replace him, according to people briefed on the process.

[08:44:54]

RAJU: Tomorrow is the one-year anniversary when Biden dropped out, interestingly enough. But what does it say to you? I mean, look, this party is in continued turmoil and they still haven't figured out what has led them to this position. They're not even looking at Biden as a reason why.

ALVAREZ: And they're still dogged by 2024. And President Donald Trump continues to fan that, too, with the autopen. There are questions that those who run are going to have to answer still about former president Joe Biden.

But certainly, I mean, this -- this is something that actually former President Barack Obama got into in a Democratic fundraiser where he basically told Democrats, just toughen up, stop with the navel gazing. And for the last six months, the navel gazing has still happened.

As someone who covers immigration day in and day out, you see that with Democrats, too. There were a lot of things happening where they just kept hush-hush as they watched. And that was also a remnant of the last administration.

But all of this to say that there is Democratic leadership that's saying we got to do more here, folks. And yet the messaging still seems completely scattered.

Meanwhile, Governor Gavin Newsom is trying to turn the page and try to start to signal some of that tough messaging. But whether that resonates is still sort of to be determined.

RAJU: Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear talk about -- he's, of course, a red state Democrat, someone who's got 2028 ambitions, no doubt about it.

He was in South Carolina just a couple of days ago, talking about how Democrats should respond.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDY BESHEAR (D-KY): The Democratic Party definitely has a job to do to re-earn the faith of the American people. We can't be running after every outrage of the day. The most important thing we can do is be laser-focused on people's jobs, their next doctor's appointment, the roads and bridges they drive, the school they drop their kids off at, and whether they feel safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: I mean, he's saying it. What the polls say. The Democratic Party has a job to do to re-earn the faith of the American public -- re- earn. They've lost the faith of the American people.

SEUNG MIN KIM, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Exactly. A lot of the reasons why they lost that faith was because of what we were just talking about with all the, you know, all the machinations around President Biden's decision to run again.

I think what Beshear is saying is really interesting in that he is really encouraging Democrats to be laser-focused on issues. And I think a big test of that will be in the August recess.

The polling has shown that more -- the more Americans learn about the different pieces of the Republican Party's big tax and border bill, which obviously takes a big cut to Medicaid and SNAP programs, the less they like the bill.

So can Democrats stay really laser-focused on explaining the Medicaid provisions, explaining the SNAP provisions, explaining how that affects their community? You know, can they really do that over the next several weeks?

I think that's what Hakeem Jeffries certainly wants his members to be focused on. Obviously, there are a lot of things that pop up where, you know, and lead Democrats elsewhere. But that's going to be the plan for Democrats for the next month -- and for the next month and beyond.

RAJU: And they're hitting Republicans on Epstein or Trump on Epstein the way that they have not in the past on sometimes they, you know, they don't know, quite know how to respond.

And the Jeffrey Epstein situation, they've been pretty aggressive about it.

TALEV: Yes. And their handling of it has been strategic. But they're in such low standing with voters that I'm not sure they've been able to capitalize on it the way they would want to.

Like those Democrats -- the Democratic Party numbers are so bad that they make Donald Trump's not good numbers -- really not good numbers look not that bad, if you follow what I'm saying.

So -- but I do think the reason why you're seeing Beshear, you know, all these guys like going to South Carolina doing all this stuff is because of that perceived leadership vacuum, the 2028 race -- sorry, I said it is -- it's kind of seems wide open.

You've got I think Echelon did a survey and found that the top names in the Democratic Party now are like, it's Newsom, it's Pete Buttigieg, its AOC, and it's somebody else. Oh, it's Cory Booker.

RAJU: Well, it's everyone. I mean --

TALEV: It's everyone --

(CROSSTALKING)

RAJU: -- if you're Democrat, you're probably thinking about running for president.

TALEV: Yes.

BRESNAHAN: Well, they're waiting also for Kamala Harris to see what she does, whether she runs for governor of California or not.

I do think -- like I do think they have not found a message so they've got to find one and they're working hard on it. But they've got a long way to go.

RAJU: And I asked Jeffries about that, the Democratic leader, he said that they -- he pointed to the polls showing there's more Democratic enthusiasm among their voters versus Republican voters, according to that CNN poll. We'll see how that translates in the midterms and beyond.

All right. Still ahead, a crucial moment in Trump's battle with Harvard. And why is the president heading to Scotland this week?

Plus, a disgraced former lawmaker -- well, he's headed to prison.

Three big stories to watch this week. That's next.

[08:49:31]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RAJU: Topping our political radar this Sunday morning:

A pivotal court hearing between the Trump administration and Harvard University set for tomorrow in Boston. At stake, billions in federal funding that the administration froze to punish the nation's oldest institution over accusations of civil rights violations and anti- Semitism.

The Ivy League institution has rejected the allegations and asked for an expedited final decision in a fight that could have major implications on academic independence.

Next up, President Trump is headed to Scotland. The White House says he'll depart for a multi-day visit and that while there, he'll meet with British Prime Minister Keir Starmer to, quote, "refine a trade agreement".

[08:54:50]

RAJU: But blurring the lines between business and politics, the president is also expected to attend the opening of a new Trump golf course in Aberdeen, Scotland and visit Turnberry, home to another Trump course. Also this Friday, former Congressman George Santos is scheduled to head to prison. The New York Republican, who in 2023 became just the sixth House member ever expelled, was sentenced in April to more than seven years behind bars.

This after he pleaded guilty to identity theft and fraud charges connected to his 2022 midterm campaign. Santos has been counting down the days to his prison sentence on X, writing just yesterday, "T minus six days. Good morning world. God bless you all."

That's it for INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. You can follow me on X @mkraju and follow the show @INSIDE POLITICS and follow me on Instagram @Manu_Raju.

If you ever miss an episode, just catch up wherever you get your podcasts and search for INSIDE POLITICS.

Up next, "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JAKE TAPPER AND DANA BASH". Jake's guests include Senator Amy Klobuchar, Tennessee Congressman Tim Burchett, U.S. special envoy Adam Boehler, and Texas Democrat Beto O'Rourke.

Thanks again for sharing your Sunday morning with us. We'll see you next time.

[08:56:03]

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