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Minneapolis Mourns After Two Children Killed In School Shooting; Source: Shooter Intended To Carry Out Attack From Inside The Church; Source: Shooter Visited The Church In Recent Weeks; CDC Director Fired After Vaccine Disagreements With RFK Jr.; Multiple High-Level CDC Officials Quit After Director Fired; Fired CDC Director: RFK Jr. Is "Weaponizing Public Health". Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired August 28, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR, THE SITUATION ROOM: And also, that the shooter, as we know, barricaded the doors, wanted to trap those children inside. It's just horrific.

LAURA COATES, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: It is. And of course, also the planning that went into this, to try to be able to maximize the carnage. It is unreal to think about such a maniacal, sinister human being existing. And to inflict that, that level of injury on children in a community is unbelievable. But law enforcement is continuing to respond and investigate and this community, trying to get through.

BROWN: Thank you so much, Laura. I know this is very close to your heart, as you're from that area. Thanks for all of your heartfelt reporting. And thank you all for joining us this morning. We're going to see you back here tomorrow at 10 am Eastern. Inside Politics with Dana Bash starts right now.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Welcome to Inside Politics. I'm Dana Bash, and we start in Minneapolis, another American city in mourning after another school shooting. This time, innocent children were gunned down as they sat praying in a church pew on the first week of school.

An eight and 10-year-old murdered, more than a dozen others injured, while hundreds of children are left traumatized from witnessing a massacre in a place that was literally supposed to be a sanctuary. And now we have breaking news on the investigation and how much worse the shooting could have been.

CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, John Miller, has been talking to his sources. John, starting with you, what are you learning?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: What we're learning is that investigators are leaning to the theory that the shooter had intended to carry out this attack from the inside of the church, but when he arrived, because mass had started, he was confronted with locked doors. So alternatively, he improvised by shooting blindly through the stained-glass windows and creating the terrible carnage we saw yesterday.

We have to bear in mind had what they believe his intended plan unfolded inside the church. He would have -- the shooter would have had an open field of fire with a large number of children trapped in that space.

One of the things that they say buttresses that theory is what they found at the emergency exit doors outside, which goes with what the shooter had posted on a video released at the time of the shooting through YouTube, was that wooden two-by-fours had been placed through the exit doors on the outside.

Had he been inside and people fled to those emergency exits, these two-by-fours that had smoke bombs attached to them would have blocked the children's attempt to flee, the teachers' attempts to get them to go out through the regular emergency exits, which would have been locked and covered with smoke.

So, what we see is from all day yesterday, asking what could have been worse. What could have been worse was the plan that the shooter had actually -- investigators believe crafted to do this from the inside.

And we know that he visited that church, according to a church employee and interviewed by investigators weeks ago, perhaps more than a month ago, where the individual was encountered by the employee and said, can I help you? And the individual said, well, I'm here trying to reconnect with the church, trying to reconnect with my faith, and I just wanted to look around.

They believe that trip was a pretext that resulted in that very detailed hand drawn diagram of the interior of the church, which mapped out the pews, the number of rows, the configuration, as well as the entrances, exits and emergency exits. They believe that was all part of his plan, which was to do this attack from the inside, which, Dana, as you can imagine, would have had far worse results, given that he was armed with multiple weapons and unlimited ammunition.

BASH: Yeah. I mean, it's just every bit of new information you learn about how premeditated it is, and in the case of your new reporting, how much worse it could have been. It just -- it's unbelievable. Just real quick, just to follow up. The reason that the shooter didn't carry out what you're told was the original plan shooting from the inside is because the doors were locked.

MILLER: Well, that's right. And according to Chief Brian O'Hara, the chief of police of Minneapolis, because the mass had already started, part of the regular security protocols of the church is to lock down the exterior doors. And they believe that when the shooter arrived, he placed his boards through the emergency exit door handles with the smoke bombs attached, popped the smoke and then opened fire through the windows because he couldn't seem to get access to the interior.

[12:05:00]

BASH: Yeah. I mean, I'm just thinking about all of the security protocols that we know just as people in the world, particularly at places of worship and those locked doors are fundamental. So, as you're describing it, you think, well, that's at least one small security protocol that seems to have certainly didn't save the trauma, didn't save the lives of those two kids or the injuries of so many others, but perhaps could have saved many, many people.

All right, John, thank you for that. Don't go anywhere. I do want to also bring in CNN law enforcement analyst, Jonathan Wackrow. Jonathan, when it comes to the evidence so far about just how premeditated this was, any other warning signs that we should be thinking about, and you as a law enforcement expert, are looking at that, I'm sure the people who are investigating are as well.

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yeah. Good afternoon, Dana. You know, I would characterize this event as this toxic mix of extremist hate, personal despair and violent planning. And when you take that context and then overlay it with what law enforcement refers to as the pathway to violence. It's a progressive set of steps that leads somebody from initially having a grievance all the way to the furthest end of the continuum, which is launching the attack.

I would assess that this shooter in this incident almost is a textbook example of every single element of the pathway of violence. And when we look at the meticulous planning, the premeditation, the thought, John Miller's reporting where pre-attack surveillance and rehearsals were probably, you know, conducted, all of this actually formulates into this neat package of the pathway to violence, starting with grievance, ideations of violence, preparation and planning, rehearsal, and then the attack.

Again, in my 10 years with this, this network, in assessing these active shooter and mass shooting situations, I have never seen such a clearcut case of the pathway of violence. It's almost textbook.

BASH: Yeah. Not to -- I mean, you said ideation of violence, not to mention, apparently, just latent racism and pure hate for lots of different -- lots of different people. Jonathan, John Miller, thank you so much to both of you. I really appreciate it. Particularly, John Miller, coming to us with your new information, along with the crime scene in Minneapolis is a makeshift memorial.

One message in particular underscores the depravity of the uniquely American phenomenon that we're talking about here. The Minneapolis community has experienced something that, unfortunately, other communities know, including Uvalde. That message you see there, it says, we get it with love, Uvalde.

And now there is new video from just moments after the shooting. It's from a parent who rushed to the school to search for his daughters. We want to warn our audience. It's very disturbing.

(PLAYING VIDEO)

BASH: I mean, the terror is just palpable. You see there. Whitney Wild is now joining us outside the Annunciation Catholic School in Minneapolis. What are you hearing from the community there, Whitney? WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Dana, it is such a gut-wrenching moment here. Let me walk you over to this memorial that's growing here. There are multiple spots here where people have come all morning to lay flowers, to lay -- see here a football. There are toys here. This is just a small way to say goodbye to these angels who left yesterday morning.

Dana, let me -- I'll just kind of walk you over here. This, look at these two crosses here. These are covered with messages, presumably from other children who had to think, Dana, about what they would write to their dead student, to a student they knew who has now passed away. It is an unfathomable act of horror.

[12:10:00]

And yet here, here we are again. We are learning much more about the emergency medical response. People were transported here within 10 minutes of this first call. Here's more from the head of the emergency management response here in Hennepin County.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN SCHEERER, SR. DIRECTOR OF EMS/EMS CHIEF AT HENNEPIN EMS: I think there's a lot of maybe unrecognized heroes in this event, along with the children that were protecting other children, which is really amazing to hear about. I might be saying too much, but we had one kid that covered up another kid and took a shotgun blast to his back and things like that, and they were helping each other out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILD: Dana, it's that story that shows that there are heroes who, you know, emerge in moments like this, a child having that act of heroism. And what the emergency management here said was that there are -- is a long list of heroes, we don't even know about right now. We will learn more about their stories in coming days.

Right now, what we know is that some of these children who have been released from the hospital. There are others who remain in the hospital. So far, at least at one hospital, there are nine children, one of them is in critical condition. Dana, it is so hard to put into words the gravity of the situation, but the community is rallying together.

We've seen people streaming in. You know, many wearing annunciation t- shirts, many with tears in their eyes, trying to figure out how a community moves forward. At this point, it is not clear when classes will resume. So, you know, again, they're trying to figure out how to move forward after this tragedy here in Minneapolis, Dana?

BASH: Whitney, those two crosses for the eight and 10-year-old children who were -- who were murdered. And the messages on there from their fellow children who were their friends and likely witnessed a lot of what happened. It's just -- it just tears your heart out.

Thank you so much for being there. I know it's not easy for you as a mom of young children, either. We'll be right back.

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[12:15:00]

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BASH: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is tightening his grip over public health policy. Last night, he pushed out the brand new director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Dr. Susan Monarez was in the job for only 27 days. The source tells CNN, she clashed with Kennedy on vaccines. This morning, Secretary Kennedy said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HHS SECRETARY: The CDC has problems. You know, we saw the misinformation coming out of covid. They got the testing wrong. They got the social distancing, the masks, the school closures that did so much harm to the American people. The agency is in trouble, and we need to fix it, and we are fixing it, and it may be that some people or should not be working there anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: To be clear, the CDC published guidance during the pandemic based on what it made clear was its evolving understanding of a brand new virus, and the CDC doesn't make policy that's up to elected officials.

My excellent panel joins me now, CNN's Mark Preston, Nia-Malika Henderson of Bloomberg and CNN, and Leigh Ann Caldwell of Puck. Hello. Let's look at this in a holistic way before we start talking about RFK Jr. and the actions that he has taken so far. He hasn't been in the job that long related to vaccines, which was the biggest flashpoint that almost kept him from getting confirmed.

The most recent, obviously, is firing the CDC director, which we'll talk more about, limited FDA authorization of the covid vaccine that was this week, removed CDC recommendation of covid vaccine for healthy children and pregnant women, canceled research funding for mRNA vaccines and fired 17-member vaccine advisory panel. Mark?

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, public health as we know, it is a little bit different this morning than it was, say, last year. Listen, what has been most surprising to me is not that Robert F. Kennedy is doing these things and that he's making all these dismissals occur and laying off all these folks, you know, down at the CDC, but it's a Donald Trump is still fully behind him at this point.

At some point, you know, Donald Trump is known for kicking people out there causing problems, which leads me to believe that Donald Trump actually believes what Robert F. Kennedy is saying when it comes to vaccines and other things.

BASH: Or he's just like he knows that RFK Jr. and some of his MAHA following helped bring him to the dance and he's supportive of him, and he likes him for lots and lots of reasons. I just also want to show our viewers, as we said, it was Susan Monarez, the CDC Director, who was fired.

But then -- because of that, other top officials at the CDC resigned in protest. Debra Houry, Demetre Daskalakis, Dan Jernigan and Jennifer Layden, these are all again, senior people who said, we're out of here.

[12:20:00]

And I'll just read a couple of examples of the resignation letters. This is from Debra Houry, who was, until yesterday, the CDC chief medical officer. For the good of the nation and the world, the science at CDC should never be censored or subject to political pauses and interpretation. And this from Demetre Daskalakis. I am not sure who the secretary is listening to, but it is quite certainly not to us. He should not be considered a source of accurate information.

Now, if you are part of the MAHA movement, or if you are Robert Kennedy Jr., they're saying, don't let the door hit you on the way out, because these people, from their point of view believe in science, but that's not the science that they want to actually govern America.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, BLOOMBERG POLITICAL & POLICY COLUMNIST: Right. I mean, they want to govern through conspiracy theories in so many ways. I mean, that's who Robert F. Kennedy is. He has this crazy belief that vaccines are linked to autism, despite all of the data in science that says otherwise. All the people who left that you showed on the screen there, they're scientists. They are doctors. He is not, but he has amassed a real following, and it is why Donald Trump.

It was a pivotal moment in Donald Trump's campaign when he brought on Robert F. Kennedy Jr., because so many folks in the MAGA sphere and in sort of the chattering classes, the manosphere, in so many ways, believed Robert F. Kennedy.

And a lot of his beliefs, I really think, took off. Really got rocket fueled during the covid era. And you heard him talk about that, and there is so much vaccine skepticism that was injected into the political system during that time.

And so, that's why you see him where he is in this position, and it's not a surprise that he's doing any of this. It might be a surprise to Bill Cassidy, who got sort of a deal. He thought it was a deal, which was nothing more than Robert F. Kennedy trying to get confirmed.

BASH: Well, because you brought up Bill Cassidy, I mean, you've spent so much time on Capitol Hill through the years, particularly on issues like this. Here's what Bill Cassidy. He's the senator who was also a medical doctor, who was the last holdout, and his getting to yes got Kennedy through the confirmation process. He just said in a post. These high-profile departures will require oversight by the HELP Committee.

And you can put more meat on this, Leigh Ann, but in his lengthy speech that he, Senator Kennedy -- Senator Cassidy, excuse me, gave when he was on the floor, explaining that he was going to vote yes. He said that Kennedy promised that he would check-in before these kinds of major changes, it seems to me that that did not happen.

LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, PUCK: Yeah, no, absolutely, it did not seem to happen. And when Senator Kennedy -- Cassidy, you know, sorry, when Senator Cassidy says that this needs to be oversight from the HELP Committee. Senator Cassidy is also head of that committee too. And so, it was a huge signal when he decided to vote for RFK Jr. to be out -- to get in this position. But there's a lot of politics involved here.

Senator Cassidy is trying to run for reelection. He and Donald Trump do not have a close relationship. Senator Cassidy voted to impeach Donald Trump in 2021 after the January 6 attack on the Capitol. And Senator Cassidy is trying to not stir that relationship so that -- because Senator Cassidy needs and wants Donald Trump in his reelection.

And so, he is walking a very, very fine line here, and it's going to be really interesting to watch -- to see what Senator Cassidy does and what sort of oversight there is, or how much he pushes back on this because his own personal self-interest political future is on the line as well.

BASH: You know, yes, you're exactly right. And you mentioned, Nia, the idea that the anti-vax movement really took off and expanded during covid. But of course, RFK Jr. has been anti-vax for years and years and years and saying many things that are just not proven by scientific fact.

But with regard to covid, the politics of covid are still so complicated for Donald Trump. This is just two days ago, at a cabinet meeting on Tuesday, where the president was reminding people how well he did getting the vaccine into people's arms.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Operation Warp Speed, people say is one of the greatest achievements ever in politics or in the military because it was almost a military procedure. But everybody, including Putin, said that Operation Warp Speed, what you did with that, nobody can believe it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:25:00]

BASH: Operation Warp Speed was fantastic and phenomenal. It really was the fact that they got this mRNA and other vaccines done out the door, and by all accounts, pretty safely, is amazing. And you don't hear the president saying that very much because of all the anti-vaxxers or even vaccine skeptics who helped get him reelected.

PRESTON: Hey, here's my cake, and I'm going to eat it. I mean -- but again, like, I'm not surprised by this anymore. This is how Donald Trump has operated throughout his whole presidency, through his campaign. I just think, again, what I think is most surprising to me is one that Donald Trump continues to stand by RFK, but at some point, you know, that may change.

Although, I would say J.D. Vance seems even more aligned with RFK then Trump is and Vance seems to be the front runner for the Republican nomination. But also, why is anyone surprised? Why are we surprised that that Donald Trump is saying that he saved the world. At the same time, he's saying, hey, go fire everybody that is supportive of these vaccines, and we're instrumental, probably, in helping these vaccines come to market.

BASH: All right, everybody standby. Up next, the Federal Reserve governor refusing to surrender to President Trump. Setting the stage for a legal battle that could have serious implications for the global economy. Stay with us.

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