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CDC In Crisis After Chief Fired, Top Leaders Resign; Vance: Why Should "Bureaucrats" Get To Set Interest Rates?; FDA Narrows Covid Vaccine Approval Ahead Of Virus Season; ICE Has Deported Nearly 200K People Since Trump's Return To Office. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired August 29, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Today on Inside Politics, termination and retaliation. Top leaders at key federal agencies are fighting back after President Trump sent his signature reality show message, you're fired. But now, it is real life with real consequences for your wallet and your health.

Plus, we have exclusive new reporting on the Trump administration's push to send hundreds of children in government custody back home to Guatemala. Multiple sources call the move unprecedented.

And protection polled. CNN was the first to report that President Trump is removing Kamala Harris' Secret Service detail. It is all about settling scores with a rival. We have the letter he personally signed.

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

Right now, a federal judge here in Washington, D.C. is hearing arguments over whether President Trump can unilaterally remove Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook from her post. The White House says she was fired for cause. They cite an unproven allegation of mortgage fraud.

Cook's attorney just accused Trump of firing her, so he can control the board in charge of interest rates. But this court battle will determine much more than Cook's future. It's about the independence of the world's most important central bank, and it comes the same week the Trump administration axed CDC Director Susan Monarez after she clashed with Robert Kennedy Jr. over vaccines. Multiple other top CDC officials resigned in solidarity.

Dozens of supporters and colleagues gathered to salute them as they left the agency's Atlanta headquarters for the last time yesterday. Three of those, now former health leaders, spoke to CNN last night about the clash between science and the Trump administration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DANIEL JERNIGAN, FMR. CDC DIR. OF NATIONAL CENTER FOR EMERGING AND ZOONOTIC INFECTIOUS DISEASES: I've been through multiple different administrations. We've been able to work with a lot of different folks, different ideologies, but we always focused on the science. Right now, I'm not sure.

DR. DEB HOURY, FMR. CDC CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER: If it's coming from CDC scientists, you can trust it. If it's coming from the administration and hasn't been cleared by CDC scientists or reviewed by it? Then I would have concerns.

DR. DEMETRE DASKALAKIS, FMR. CDC CHIEF OF VACCINE AND RESPIRATORY DISEASES: I think that the disregard for experts, the clear statement that experts should not be trusted, really makes it seem unlikely that his mission for CDC is to be a bastion of scientific expertise. The direction that the country's public health is going is not one that is evidence-based or science-based, which is why our resignations are really -- together are trying to raise a red flag for everyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I'm joined by a terrific group of reporters, on this Friday, CNN's Phil Mattingly, Vivian Salama of the Atlantic, and CNN's Priscilla Alvarez. Hello, everyone. I want to get to CDC in a minute, but let's just start with this hearing that's going on about whether Lisa Cook, the Fed board member, can be fired.

Vivian, I want to start with you. You, I know, have had a chance to -- had exchanges with the president about this as part of the press pool. Can you just give our viewers an understanding of this dynamic that's happening in the courtroom right now?

VIVIAN SALAMA, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: I mean, literally, the president has had beef with Jay Powell, the chairman of the Federal Reserve since his first -- since his first term in office. Mind you, he was actually nominated by President Trump. The Federal Reserve chairman, you know, serves a purpose in that, they span administrations, so that they maintain their independence. But Trump increasingly has been frustrated over the fact that he wouldn't cut interest rates.

This is because, the -- again, the independence of the Federal Reserve, they maintain that that will to do that. And so, he has grown increasingly frustrated. And last year during the campaign, I specifically asked President Trump, would he try to assert his power more if Jay Powell would not listen to his advice? And he bluntly said he would at the time.

BASH: And here we are.

SALAMA: And here we are. I mean, he really kind of let people know that he was on a path to do this. The question is whether or not he goes after Jay Powell or not. So far, we hadn't seen that, largely because his advisors told him, if he does that, it could really disrupt markets.

BASH: But he's getting in through another door. SALAMA: But now he's found another door, and this is what's alarming a lot of people. Lisa Cook, one of the governors of the Federal Reserve, going after her, he says, with cause. And Lisa Cook's lawyers say, there is no cause.

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BASH: Let's get to one of the points that you made, which is, the independence of the Federal Reserve. And I want you to weigh in on this, Phil, to explain to our viewers why it's important. Before you do, let's listen to what J.D. Vance told USA Today about that.

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J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What people who are saying the president has no authority here. What they're effectively saying is that seven economists and lawyers should be able to make an incredibly critical decision for the American people with no democratic input. I don't think that we allow bureaucrats to sit from on high and make decisions about monetary policy and interest rates without any input from the people that were elected to serve the American people.

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BASH: Isn't that actually what they're supposed to do be independent?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: It is kind of the cornerstone of the U.S. central bank. And why the U.S. central bank is the cornerstone of the entire global economy. And why the U.S. is not Turkey, which, if you want to understand what happens when an official, I was going to say elected official, probably wouldn't necessarily describe everyone like that.

But decides to take it upon themselves to do something to the central bank, which is the ability to be independent, the ability for people to trust their judgments, their ability to use interest rates in a way that the market perceives and understands and believes is in the best interest of the general economy, not an administration or political end is absolutely critical. We've seen it over history. Turkey will be the most recent example.

What Vance said last night was actually striking to me, because that is not the argument they're making in court. They are actually steering as far away from that argument as possible.

BASH: The top administration?

MATTINGLY: The administration, they have made very clear. This is a for cause decision, a for cause termination. This is not about the president's frustration and anger and disdain from the interest rate policy. And the fact that they would say that, yes, we've all seen what the president has said for weeks and months and years, going back to 2018, as it relates to Jay Powell.

There's a reason market being one of them, legal authority being the other, why they have never gone after, taken that step with Jay Powell. And that's why their ability to lock into this -- these allegations, and say, that could be cause. We could move on this. If you watch their or listen to their arguments, as our team is conveying them, it's in the courtroom right now.

They are very clear that they have thought through this. And while for cause doesn't have a lot of precedent in this, actually, none in the history of the Federal Reserve. They're not, in this case, with the belief that they're going to lose. I think people need to understand there's a very, very real possibility they win here.

BASH: The Trump administration.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

BASH: Well, the hearing just ended. The judge did not make a decision yet. So, we'll definitely wait to see what that decision is. I want to turn to the CDC. And again, just a reminder of the departures that we saw this week. The head of the CDC and then five others resigned in protest because the CDC Director, Susan Monarez, who, by the way, is new since the Trump administration has been there. She was appointed by him, confirmed by the Republican led Senate, but left in protest because of what she said was RFK interfering on vaccine policy.

I want to get to kind of a similar point that we heard from J.D. Vance on the Fed, but this is about health policy, and this is from the press secretary.

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KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: President Trump, who was overwhelmingly reelected on November 5. This woman has never received a vote in her life. And so, if people are not aligned with the president's vision and the secretary's vision to make our country healthy again, then we will gladly show them the door.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: She did get a vote. She got -- she got lots of votes in the United States Senate. And that's the way Priscilla it's supposed to work, that the president nominates somebody who's in the Senate confirmed position. And then the United States Senate who were elected by people on November 5 or the Novembers that they were on the ballot, and then the person is confirmed or not. It's part of what makes the United States government what it is, which is the separation of powers/checks and balances.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Part of the process, part of the institutions. What I think is really remarkable about what we're seeing this week is that it does hearken back to the first Trump administration. Remember when the president came in, all of his senior aides said that this was going to be a different administration. And what are we watching unfold, firings left and right because people are not getting in line.

And so, you have these departures at the CDC, at the senior level, CDC director. You have what's happening at the Fed. And I think taken together, it does look a bit like disarray. The way they're framing this is that it's because they're bureaucrats, that they're part of some deep state, that it is those who get the votes that should be the ones calling the shots.

But at the same time, and the CDC director is a great example of this. This was someone they chose, and now is, is leave -- well, is being fired. The CDC, however, which is sort of like an interesting, unique angle, had reports to RFK, and he has his own base.

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And so, you have two men here with their bases. That's part of the reason that Trump absorbed him. And I think how that plays out at the Health and Human Services Department is going to be interesting to watch because of the MAHA base. But at the end of the day, this week really did have a lot of good reminders of the way things played out at the first go around.

SALAMA: Dana, I mean, a lot of this has a similar theme in that, we're -- you know, experts look at this as seeing erosion of trust in the institutions, whether it's the Federal Reserve or the CDC, you know, the Health and Human Services agency for the Fed, you know, to be able to know that there are people who are qualified, making decisions that guide our economy through. You know, a lot of people depend on everything from the inflation rate and mortgage rates, everything. They look to the Fed to guide that. Same with CDC, on health guidance.

BASH: Yeah. And these are huge, huge issues that affect every person in this country in very different ways. Obviously, the Fed people don't wake up in the morning, thinking about the Fed, but they have so much power over things that matter in their everyday lives. Obviously, the president is very obsessed with one of the things, which is interest rates on health policy.

Our brilliant colleague, Ben Tinker, just went through this morning with those of us who work here. Some of the really important things that we should know about the changes that are going to be made because of RFK, and what he wants to do. This is just with the covid shot.

For healthy children or adults under 65, you have to get a prescription from a doctor for off-label use. Insurance may not cover it, doctors' offices may not stock it, pharmacists may not provide it, healthy children under five may have no access to it all.

And just to give some again, another real world example. Until now, most people who wanted a covid vaccine could go on CVS's website, get an appointment, go in and do it, boom. Now CVS is saying that it is not offering vaccines in 16 states because of the -- what they say is the current regulatory environment. Now this is not, you know, an argument for or against the covid vaccine. This is about accessibility for people to get it if they want to get it.

MATTINGLY: First, shout out to Ben Tinker. Our like encyclopedic North Star and on all of these things for many years, including throughout covid. The administration feels like there is no downside to this. They feel like their base certainly is in this place. RFK, we know where RFK is on this. And to be very clear, there's not a high percentage of people of Americans that are still getting covid shots on a regular basis, so they're not concerned about a significant backlash here.

I do think that this kind of threads in with the entirety of this week that Priscilla and Vivian were getting at right now, which is, they not only say they're going to do things. They proceed to then do them, and do them through ways that people would say, well, that's not how it's supposed to work. That's not how the CDC is supposed to be operated. That's not how vaccination guidance is supposed to come through because it never has been before. It's a norm, or it's an understanding, or it's like this is just how this works.

In the course of this week, between the Fed, the CDC chair on the Article 2 verse -- Article 1 versus Article 2 on spending. There was a new rescissions package sent up this morning that's going to cause a huge, huge blow up. It is, every single day the administration finding mechanisms, tools and opportunities they believe will actually withhold and stand up in the legal process to do the things they want to do, that maybe they wanted to do in the first term, or weren't totally sure how. Now they do them, and say, all right, come at me. Let's see what happens.

BASH: And they're doing so much at the same time intentionally overwhelming.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

BASH: All right. Up next, a CNN exclusive. The administration is gearing up to send hundreds of Guatemalan children who arrived in the U.S. alone back to their home country. Priscilla here broke the story, and she's going to bring us the details after a quick break.

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BASH: And now with CNN exclusive. CNN has learned that the Trump administration is moving to send hundreds of Guatemalan children back to their home country. These are children who arrived in the United States unaccompanied. It's just the latest in a series of Trump moves since he returned to office to focus on unaccompanied migrant children.

Our Priscilla Alvarez broke the story, and she was back along with Vivian and Phil. Priscilla explain who these children are, how they came here, and what the significance is of them going back without getting their full hearing in the process?

ALVAREZ: So, these are children who arrived to the U.S. southern border unaccompanied, which means, they didn't have a parent or legal guardian with them. They may have arrived as part of a group of migrants who turned themselves in at the border, but they are put in the custody of Health and Human Services.

They are the ones who are charged with their care. While they are in government custody, officials look for quote, sponsors in the United States. That means a relative. They often have someone here, maybe a parent, who is here to place them there while they seek protections in immigration court.

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So, is there a reason that they should remain in the United States being asylum claim? Sometimes trafficking concerns arise, a multitude of protections that can come up in these proceedings. What the administration is talking about here is plucking children from Guatemala who are in custody, more than 600 of them, who do not have a parent in the United States, even if they have a sister, aunt, somebody else, and sending them back to Guatemala.

The reason that this is both unprecedented is because of the scope, even though some children have decided, in custody, I actually want to go back to my home country. There's an entire process for that because they can be quite young. They don't know exactly what they're signing up for.

Well, here we're talking from zero to 17. So, we're talking the whole gamut. So, a young child, and I've heard anecdotes of this aside from this reporting could be a four-year-old who says, I want to go home. Does a four-year-old really know what that means? So, there's an immigration judge they have to go and talk to, to see, do you understand the severity of your welcome situation at home, of what you're asking for?

In any case, these kids, from my reporting, don't appear to have the chance to do that. They would just be sent back home. And in some cases, it may be that they want to be reunited with their family, and they will be reunited with their family. In other cases, we don't know if the situation they were fleeing was bad to begin with and we're sending them back.

BASH: And that's -- and that's really a key question, which is, if you look at this kind of big picture, just even as a parent, I would think like, OK, what are the reasons an unaccompanied minor would come from a country without their parents or without the closest relative?

And one question is, did the parent, as you were saying, want them to have a better life and send them with somebody? Or were they abducted? Were they taken from by a smuggler? And so those are all possibilities. But what you're saying is that the process to answer those questions, which usually happens here in the U.S. is being short circuit?

ALVAREZ: It's not clear how the administration wants to approach those exactly what process or legal mechanism they're going to use, because this hasn't been done before. But plucking any child out of an immigration proceeding where those questions would have been answered, that is sort of the alarm bell. And in child advocates who work with these kids day in and day out, that can be the case, Dana, which is that parents can't protect their kid back at home.

They were fleeing their parents' situation at home, so we can really run the gamut. This is being done in partnership with Guatemala. So, it's not as though the U.S. just sending them back and leaving it to Guatemala to figure out. What I am being told is that they are working in coordination with one another. But this hasn't been done before, and we do know that the administration is fixated on migrant children and sending them back.

BASH: Yeah, definitely. And has -- they have been for some time. Let's just look at the numbers. So far, we are almost in September. So, the president has almost been in office for, well, I would say, eight and a half months. And the number of people deported since he returned to office, 200,000 just by ICE, and in total, about 350,000 because that includes a lot of people self-deported.

ALVAREZ: And U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

BASH: Yes, exactly. And so, just to give you context for people out there, the last time the agency recorded this many deportations was actually under President Obama. That was 316,000 and that was in all of 2014.

MATTINGLY: I think the way to look at those numbers is that this -- they view this as just a starting point still. Priscilla may correct me on this. But I think that what Priscilla and our teams have done such a great job reporting on is just how significant the pressure is to keep getting numbers up, to keep getting numbers up, to keep getting numbers up.

And when you start looking together, things like what Priscilla is reporting here with the children, but also just what you're seeing in Washington, D.C. right now. The federal takeover of the kind of law enforcement capacity is as much an immigration issue as it is a beautifying the city as it is a crime in D.C. And that is very obvious, whoever focuses on that or not, like, if you go around where people are being stopped is by ICE officials.

BASH: Yeah, yeah. No, it's definitely an ICE way to get into sanctuary city with ICE. Real quick. CNN is reporting that border patrol arrests included two firefighters, and they were fighting the biggest wildfire going on in Washington State. They were in the country, allegedly illegally.

Patty Murray said, you know, when after the president for this Trump undercut, our wildland firefighting abilities in more ways than one, decimating the forest service and pushing out thousands of critical support staff, now apparently detaining firefighters.

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SALAMA: They obviously are making a sweeping action that it goes way beyond what President Trump initially said, which was, we're going to go after criminals. We're going to go after people, not only people here illegally, but especially, we're going to prioritize criminals. And this is what is alarming people. A, just the vast scope of this, but also B, the fact that due process and just the right to seek asylum for so many people has been denied because they're being -- they're being sent back.

ALVAREZ: And on the firefighters, we don't have all the details about who these two individuals were, but what it is indicative of is the widening of the aperture for immigration enforcement. And places where before, because I've covered this a long time, agents may take a step back and decide to apprehend that person somewhere else, given the situation that they were in where they were fighting this blaze.

And it also ultimately speaks to what Phil was saying, which is numbers, immigration has, frankly, always been a numbers game. We usually talk about it along the U.S. southern border. That's quiet right now. Now it's about interior arrest. And the more that that pressure builds, because they want to get to a million deportations a day, the more you start to see actions like the one on the West Coast.

BASH: All right, everybody. Up next. President Trump just pulled the plug on his former rival Secret Service protection. We'll give you details ahead.

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