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22-Year-Old Man Arrested in Connection With Charlie Kirk Murder; Utah Gov.: "Hey Fascist! Catch!" Was Etched On Bullet Casing; Kirk Shooting Suspect Being Held Without Bail; Trump Allies Threaten To Punish Critics Of Charlie Kirk. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired September 12, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

ZERLINA MAXWELL, HOST, SIRIUSXM'S "MORNINGS WITH ZERLINA": And we point at the other side as if they are enemies, when the fact of the matter is, we are all Americans, and we all have to exist and live here together. People of all backgrounds, people of all faiths, people of all political persuasions. and it's really, really important for us not to get into this back and forth, this yelling match.

Why can't we have a calm and smart and intelligent discussion about policies? And yes, there are times where we will disagree, but I think that it's important to remember that we are all Americans, and we have to get back to that somehow.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR, THE SITUATION ROOM: All right, I think we can all agree on that. Zerlina Maxwell and Jeff Angelo, thank you so much.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN CO-ANCHOR THE SITUATION ROOM: Good discussion indeed. And to our viewers, thanks very much for joining us this morning. We'll be back, of course, here Monday morning, every weekday morning, 10 am Eastern.

BROWN: Inside Politics, with our friend and colleague, Dana Bash starts right now.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Welcome to Inside Politics. I'm Dana Bash, and we are following breaking news. The man police say murdered right-wing activist Charlie Kirk is in custody. You're looking at 22-year-old Tyler Robinson. He's described as a high achieving student from a small Utah suburb with no political party affiliation. He's being held at a county jail in southern Utah on multiple state charges, federal charges may be filed later today.

Our sources tell CNN Robinson's father recognized his son in FBI photos and told him to turn himself in. The father called a youth pastor to assist. The pastor then called U.S. marshals. Utah Governor Spencer Cox detailed how Robinson's family helped end the manhunt.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. SPENCER COX (R-UT): Investigators interviewed a family member of Robinson who stated that Robinson had become more political in recent years. The family member referenced a recent incident in which Robinson came to dinner prior to September 10, and in the conversation with another family member, Robinson mentioned Charlie Kirk was coming to UVU. They talked about why they didn't like him and the viewpoints that he had. The family member also stated Kirk was full of hate and spreading hate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: CNN's Nick Watt is in Orem, Utah. Nick, you were at that press conference. Give us a recap of what they say that they do know about the suspect so far.

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the governor says that he believes the suspect acted alone, and as you say, the suspect is now in a county lockup in Spanish Fork, just a little bit south of here. They talked a lot about, also messages that investigators were able to see on Tyler Robinson's roommate's computer.

Apparently, the two had been exchanging message -- messages over a discord server. And Robinson had been talking about the need to pick a weapon up from a drop that he was going to wrap it in a towel. He was talking about engraving ammunition, which we'll get to again in a second.

And as you mentioned, as we just heard there, there was talk of Tyler Robinson becoming increasingly political over recent years, and just in recent days, talking about Charlie Kirk coming here to Utah. Now, as we have reported, he grew up in Washington County, down in the southwest, about a three-hour drive from here in Orem.

By the way, you can just see over my shoulder that is the tent that Charlie Kirk was sitting in when he was shot. So apparently, we are now hearing that the suspect arrived here in Orem about 8:29 in the morning in his gray dodge vehicle, wearing a different outfit than he wore to actually carry out this assassination.

He changed into this t-shirt with the American flag, with the eagle, this cap with the emblem. He changed into that to carry out the assassination, and then he changed back into the clothes he'd been wearing in the morning to drive back down to Washington County. So, that is what we have heard this morning, in custody, a little bit on the motive and a little bit on how he was apprehended.

Now, during the day yesterday, they were releasing some images early, some grainy images. They then put out $100,000 reward for any information. It was clear that they were needing some help. At 8 pm local time last night, they released the far greater enhanced images, and a couple of hours later, Tyler Robinson was in custody. Dana?

BASH: And give our viewers the details on what you mentioned just a minute ago, which is the messages that law enforcement say were on the suspect's murder weapon.

WATT: Right. So, apparently, when they found that weapon just in the woods, just in this neighborhood behind the campus, in the direction that the suspect fled. They found engravings on the ammunition and the rifle. And I believe we have a sound bite that we can play describing what those engravings were. Take a listen.

[12:05:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COX: Investigators noted inscriptions that had been engraved on casings found with the rifle. Inscriptions on a fired casing read, notices, bulges, OWO, what's this? Inscriptions on the three unfired casings read, hey fascist, exclamation point, catch, exclamation point. Up arrow symbol, right arrow and symbol and three down arrow symbols. A second unfired casing read, Oh bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao ciao ciao ciao. A third unfired casing read, if you read this, you are gay LMAO.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATT: So, Oh Bella Ciao, that is the song glorifying the partisans who fought against the fascists and the occupying Nazis in Italy during the second World War. And later, when the governor was asked about a motive, he said, well, maybe you don't need to look any further than those words, hey fascist, catch. Dana?

BASH: I mean, just so chilling all of it. Nick, thank you so much for being there and your terrific reporting. I want to turn now to former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe and Criminologist Casey Jordan. Thank you both for being here.

Andy, let's start with you. Law enforcement clearly has a lot more answers. We heard it this morning, but there are still questions. What are your questions right now?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yeah. So there, we have so much more to work with now as a result of the press conference. Law enforcement will have an infinitely greater amount of details as this day goes on and we roll into tomorrow, because what they're doing right now undoubtedly are executing search warrants at locations relevant to this person, a shooter.

At his home, likely on his vehicle, and then the kind of non-physical search warrants, search warrants on his discord channel, search warrants on any other social media he has, on any electronic devices that they're able to seize from the physical places that they've searched. So, they're going to get a lot more information about really what was in his head, what his thoughts were, what his -- and what his motivation might have been.

One of the biggest questions that I have now, Dana, is from this remarkable exchange that they got when they interacted with investigators, interacted with his roommate last night. And his roommate was able to show those discord chats by showing the investigators his own phone, and they took photographs of those chats from the phone.

And the chats are remarkable to me because the idea that an assassin who has gone to this level of planning, who's traveled over 100 miles from his own home to execute this crime. Who thought through showing up in one set of clothes, changing his clothes to commit the crime, and then changing back to try to escape.

And then a big piece of that escape was dropping the rifle in an area, possibly dismantling it, but also wrapping it in a towel, so he could go back and retrieve it later. Apparently, he shared that part of his plan with his roommate. The chats refer to the location of the rifle, the fact that it's wrapped in a towel, fact that he was basically surveilling the location for a safe time when he could go back in and retrieve it.

So that raises the very considerable question of how much did this roommate know? Why was he included in this part of the plan? Did he understand that there was an assassination involved here? If so, was he of any assistance to that plan? So, even though the governor said that they're not -- they don't currently have a plan to make any other arrests. I think that's a situation that could very well change as time goes on.

BASH: No, that's interesting. I definitely that I perked up when I heard him answer that question about other arrests, clearly -- potentially suggesting the roommate. Casey, let's ask -- let's talk a little bit more about the bit of information that we have now about Tyler Robinson, his behavior, which law enforcement was told that he has become more political in recent years, and specifically, had conversations with his family about Kirk quote, spreading hate. What do the new details tell you about the alleged shooter's motive?

CASEY JORDAN, BEHAVIORAL ANALYST: Well, to be honest, there's so much we don't know that we really do want to know is we repeat what's been going on in his life in the last few years. I wouldn't -- I wouldn't say he's been so much become more political as he's become more politicized, perhaps. And usually, you see this happen in the lives of young people who don't have enough purpose in their lives.

And he did not attend that particular university, based on what I've read. He just had one semester at the state university four years ago, like, did the freshman year semester, and, you know, didn't go back. So, what has been happening in the last four years?

[12:10:00]

Does he have a job? Was he living at home and then got his own place? You know, where does he live with this roommate? Did he have a girlfriend? Did -- was he -- did he have any purpose in his life? When you don't have purpose, kind of like, idle hands are the devil's play shot. And I don't mind he's right for the picking for radicalization or politicization.

And it just looks like he was spending all of his time online, reading things and buying into things that gave him a sense of purpose and power, because really, this was just a power move, probably more personal than political to make himself feel powerful. He really didn't have a good escape or exit plan, so he didn't think beyond the act, and that tells us a lot about his lack of maturity.

BASH: I want to drill down on that point that you just made about the fact that he clearly lived on the internet. And Andy, what law enforcement officials said, and the governor himself said, is that these bullet casings explain the bullet casings and to people who don't live on the internet. Several of the markings were specifically memes or, you know, sort of ideas that are found in internet culture. And we cannot, I think, drill down on this enough how much this is potentially playing into not just this horrible tragedy, but society.

MCCABE: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's -- so updating myself a little bit here, but when I was running the counterterrorism division in the FBI, we were confronted with this awful tidal wave of radicalization, as ISIS kind of came to prominence in Syria and Iraq.

We started looking, trying to -- trying to identify those key radicalizers that had an impact on people who we had arrested and convicted for terrorism offenses or offenses related to terrorism. And we had a laundry list of all kinds of environmental and historical biological factors. And there was only one that was absolutely consistent among all of our convicted terrorists or terrorist associates and that was the consumption of online propaganda.

And this is, of course, you know, earlier days, and online propaganda started with AQAP, with expire magazine, and then ultimately ISIS elevated the game. They were producing, like videos of beheadings and things.

And what we realized from that was this, the consumption of that propaganda, which we know on social media is actually targeted to you based on its outrageous content because the people who put social media and the internet, they understand that people react more strongly with content that they find to be objectionable or outrageous or what have you.

So, whether this point today, whether you are -- you mean politically, right or left, you are drawn to by the way the social media is set up, content that is more likely to push you in a radical direction. And I think this is not just internet culture now. It is our culture. The internet is ubiquitous, particularly young people are on it. It is their means of communication. It's their means of community and interacting with their friends. So, I mean, we should be prepared to see a lot more of this.

BASH: And real quick, Casey, we're pretty much out of time. But I do want to pick up on that, because this suspect is 22-year-old male. And if you look at so many of the people who are convicted of crimes or even accused of committing crimes that are of this ilk. They are young men who perhaps are also among many other things, part of the epidemic of loneliness.

JORDAN: Right. And we do see that as a common thread. They are rudderless, they feel isolated, they feel disenchanted. They feel like they were sold a bill of goods that if they were bright and studied and, you know, tried to get a job, that the world would be handed to them. And then they find out that it's just not true.

They look for someone to blame, someone to scapegoat. And in this particular case, I think this young man was radicalized and picked a scapegoat named Charlie Kirk. I just think he's -- we'll learn more, but I don't think he's even seeking fame and fortune. He just wanted a moment of power over somebody's destiny.

BASH: Just so -- just so tragic. Just no other way to say it. Thanks to you both for your expertise. Coming up. Is the United States on the verge, or maybe in the middle of a historic reckoning. The political message from Utah's governor that you want to see. Don't go anywhere.

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[12:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: Charlie Kirk's assassination is shaking Americans to our core. Is this really who we are? A nation where political violence is becoming routine? Well, Utah Governor Spencer Cox took the time to address that. This is just part of his message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COX: This is certainly about the tragic death, assassination, political assassination of Charlie Kirk. But it is also much bigger than an attack on an individual. It is an attack on all of us. It is an attack on the American experiment. It is an attack on our ideals. This cuts to the very foundation of who we are, of who we have been and who we could be in better times.

[12:20:00]

Political violence is different than any other type of violence for lots of different reasons. One, because in the very act that Charlie championed of expression, that freedom of expression that is enshrined in our founding documents, in having his life taken in that very act, makes it more difficult for people to feel like they can share their ideas, that they can speak freely.

We will never be able to solve all the other problems, including the violence problems that people are worried about, if we can't have a clash of ideas safely and securely, even especially, especially those ideas with which you disagree.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I'm joined here by a terrific group of reporters on this Friday, CNN's David Chalian, Marianna Sotomayor of The Washington Post, and CNN's Kristen Holmes. David, you and I were texting listening to Spencer Cox about just how drug jaw droppingly normal, he sounded, as a political leader trying to calm emotions.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't say just normal. I would say, inspiring. I mean, he, you know, I know a lot of people, probably in our audiences are just learning who Spencer Cox is. He's the governor of Utah. Is not necessarily a household name.

But this is actually authentically him, because part of his mission through his public life has been about bringing down the temperature, finding ways to speak without inflaming. This is part of his entire political biography. And I, you know, to hear him say, we can always point the finger at the other side. At some point, we have to find an off ramp, or it's going to get much worse.

I don't know how more clear he could be. And I -- and you know, that is not what everybody is choosing to do right now. There is a lot of finger pointing going on when you look not just even in the online political debate, but on television and elsewhere. Obviously, the president himself did some finger pointing in his remarks when he posted that video from the Oval Office the other night. Spencer Cox is choosing a different path here.

BASH: But I think, and I'm going to get to the president in a second. The reason why it was remarkable is that's the kind of thing that we were used to like when we started covering politics.

CHALIAN: Yeah.

BASH: And it -- we don't see it that much in current times for lots of reasons. He was asked whether this is a watershed moment, and he said yes, but he was clear that what he was talking about, he hopes is going to happen, might not happen, and we could be headed down a path that is, God forbid, more dangerous.

CHALIAN: But he said, we as Americans have the agency to make that determination.

BASH: Yes. So important, such an important message from the governor. The president was on Fox this morning for a very, very lengthy discussion, like an hour, long discussion. And they asked him how do we fix this country? How do we get back together? Here's part of that discussion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do we fix this country? How do we come back together?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, I'll tell you something that's going to get me in trouble, but I couldn't care less. The radicals on the right oftentimes they're radical because they don't want to see crime. They don't want to see crime.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Worried about the border.

TRUMP: They're saying, we don't want these people coming in. We don't want you burning our shopping centers. We don't want you shooting our people in the middle of the street. The radicals on the left are the problem, and they're vicious and they're horrible and they're politically savvy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I just want to reiterate, this is on Fox. And he is being asked, on Fox, how do we come back together? And his answer, Kristen, was the -- throwing a rhetorical grenade on there. And I just -- because facts are important here. He is not wrong that there has been radicalization on the left.

And anybody you talk to who is on the right, either an elected office or somebody like Charlie Kirk, they see it on their social media feeds. They hear it. But it is also true for people on the left. They're getting it from those on the right, and it has resulted in some pretty unfortunate violence.

Just one example, Nancy Pelosi, his husband Paul Pelosi. When a person went into their house, hit him on the head with a hammer after being there for a long time. He was later convicted. He told the jury he believed the media was lying about former President Trump.

We've heard that come from, you know, a very high places in the Republican Party. He posted links on his Facebook page to multiple videos produced by the MyPillow CEO, falsely alleging that the 2020 election was stolen. These things have consequences on both sides of the aisle, not just the political --

[12:25:00]

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You know, of course, a consequence of both sides aisle. I think, look, this is all the larger conversation that you guys are just having, which is, how do you tone it down? As we heard from the Utah governor and Donald Trump's rhetoric this morning, talking about left radicals and that they're a problem, is not the answer to toning it down in terms of, you know, what we just heard again from the Utah governor.

I do think the, you know, big question is, what actually happens from here. And it was a jarring moment for so many people in this White House, in this administration, different than President Trump having an assassination attempt. Because I think in the back of everyone's mind when you are on a campaign, when you're with a person and that kind of power, you always think that could happen.

For so many of these people, these Republicans that were close to Charlie Kirk, it really wasn't in the back of their mind that he could be sitting there, talking and be executed in front of thousands of people and I think that had a chilling effect.

And I think the question now, and I can't answer it, is, how do others try to move forward in a less explosive way? And we saw the reaction, and I don't know that you can count the reaction from people that were close to Charlie Kirk yesterday. It was angry. The day before was sad. It turned to anger. But that is part of a grieving process. The big question is, where do we go in the weeks and months ahead, and how and who is going to be the person who helps tone down that rhetoric?

BASH: And the other really important question is, what happens inside the White House? What do they do? What do they do with that understandable sorrow and anger? And I'll just show something that Stephen Miller said online.

He said this, there is an ideology that has steadily been growing in this country, which hates everything that is good, righteous and beautiful, and celebrates everything that is warped, twisted and depraved. It is an ideology at war with family and nature. The fate of millions depends upon the defeat of this wicked ideology. The fate of our children, society or civilization hinges on it.

Now this could be Stephen Miller, again, understandably hurt and angry. This is also a person who has a lot of power, and the question is, whether or not they're going to listen to Spencer Cox or they're going to be seeking retribution.

MARIANNA SOTOMAYOR, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Absolutely, it's a decision-making moment. And listen, even this morning, it's been what maybe 24 hours since lawmakers went back home for the weekend. I've already heard from some House Democrats, particularly those who try to work in a bipartisan way, have actually pleaded to work with the president on some policy issues.

They went back home and immediately constituents, who know their record, pointing fingers at them, saying, it is your fault. It is your party's fault, Democrats' fault for this. So, it is absolutely being felt. And I think, you know, that I would say Speaker Mike Johnson has really tried to tone down the temperature. Because man, were his colleagues so angry. House Republicans were pointing fingers immediately at the press and Democrats. And he --

BASH: They were doing that publicly.

SOTOMAYOR: Yes, doing it very publicly. And he has more to do to try and quell down that temperature. But the tensions are there, and the worry about even coming back to Capitol Hill next week is very much at the fore front.

BASH: We're going to talk about that in a minute, about the fear that Marianna is talking about in the halls of Congress. Lawmakers are searching for ways to feel safe, maybe new security measures. We'll talk about that and more after a quick break.

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