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FBI Director Patel Defends His Handling Of Kirk Shooting Case; Trump Threatens To "Go After" Reporter, Claims Critical Coverage Could Be Hate Speech; Trump Files $15B Defamation Lawsuit Against New York Times; Shapiro: "We Need To Be Clear And Unequivocal In Calling Out All Forms Of Political Violence"; Hollywood Icon Robert Redford Dies At 89. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired September 16, 2025 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: -- in everything in this town, let's be honest about that, but particularly in this and there are things that there is an interest in getting out there and we have to wait and see what exactly the investigators come up with and also in the short term what we see in the filing document when they actually formally charge the alleged shooter which is expected to happen today.

We're going to squeeze in a quick break. On the other side, I do want to get to some of the other fireworks we've seen at the hearing and also at the White House with the President today about this whole idea of whether or not political violence really does happen in all shapes and sizes or as the Republicans are alleging it's just on the extreme left.

Stay with us.

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[12:35:28]

BASH: Welcome back. My smart reporters are still here at the table. I want to return to a discussion about what's happening in this Kash Patel hearing, but another angle that is being debated very hotly, and that is the question of political violence and where it's actually coming from.

Senator Eric Schmitt was very impassioned in his insistence that, just like we've heard from the President and other Republicans, that it is mostly the extreme left. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

SEN. ERIC SCHMITT (R), MISSOURI: There can be no unity between good and evil. Somebody has to win this thing. And as a country, we have to absolutely reject it. And don't tell me it's both sides. We've heard years, years of the left, their loudest voices calling anyone on the right extremists, extremist mega-Republicans, fascists, Nazis, an existential threat to democracy.

Check yourself. Don't give me this both sides --

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BASH: Well, there has been political violence against Democratic members of Congress or of -- I should -- well, actually there was Democratic members of Congress, but also the governor of Pennsylvania, the governor of Michigan, and it goes on. That is actually something that Senator Katie Britt mentioned. We don't hear a lot of Republicans talking about some of the horrible violence, deadly violence in this case of Minnesota. She did.

Speaking of Minnesota, Amy Klobuchar spoke about this notion of the rhetoric from the nation's highest leaders.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D), MINNESOTA: I actually don't want to go tit for tat on this. But what I am asking for is that this rhetoric of blaming one side or the other stop. If you could convey that to the President and that we actually work on things that are solutions. So could you commit to me, Mr. Patel, Director Patel, that you will do that?

(END VIDEOCLIP)

KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR: Absolutely, Senator.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BASH: Jeff?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: And that's quite the exchange there from Senator Klobuchar, who, of course, was a very close friend of former Minnesota House Speaker Melissa Horton, who was assassinated along with her husband in Minnesota. Kash Patel said he will convey that to the President.

Let's be real here, though, for one moment. I mean, President Trump is unlikely to suddenly change his view. He was very outspoken that he said, you know, it's the left that is doing this. This is personal to him. Obviously, he's the subject of two assassination attempts on his own. So perhaps understandable.

But when the Vice President yesterday said this, "It is a statistical fact that most of the lunatics in American politics today are members of the left wing." There are no statistical facts that back that up. I mean, the reality is this is coming from all sides. But that has become, we heard Senator Schmitt there, a Missouri Republican, talking about don't give me the both sides. That's exactly what many Fox News hosts last evening were saying, don't talk about both sides. It is all sides.

Let's talk about -- let's use that language, because it is coming from everywhere. There's no doubt about it. And there are plenty examples to fill both columns here of the violence. MARIANNA SOTOMAYOR, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: You know, their leaders have really tried, at least on Capitol Hill, to try and temper down all of the rhetoric. Sure, a lot of these Republican lawmakers knew Charlie Kirk are angry. But even Johnson today, he did also try to play both sides, saying essentially that members need to tone it down, should not be using the rhetoric in this way.

But at the same time, blaming Democrats and saying, well, you all have called Trump every name in the book, so we can debate that as well. And this is really going to come to a head. There will likely be votes on Republican measures who are targeting Democrat Ilhan Omar, trying to get her off committees for what she said in response to Kirk's death.

Republicans pushing the Speaker to actually launch a subcommittee to investigate these left-wing actors. You know, they're speaking so broadly, it's unclear exactly who they're going to target. And frankly, there are Democrats who worry that, you know, sure, some Republicans are saying, oh, it's the far left, it's the far left.

[12:40:05]

But the public just assumes it's all Democrats. Democrats are getting this even back home from some of their own constituents, saying it's your fault.

BASH: Tamara, I want to look at what happened at the White House just a couple of hours ago with our friend Jon Karl, who was asking a completely legitimate and I think very good question of the President. And I want you to listen to the President's response.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

JONATHAN KARL, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, ABC NEWS: And what do you make of Pam Bondi saying she's going to go after hate speech? Is that -- I mean, a lot of people -- a lot of your allies say hate speech is free speech.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You probably go after people like you because you treat me so unfairly. It's hate. You have a lot of hate in your heart. Maybe they'll come after ABC.

Well, ABC paid me $16 million recently for a form of hate speech, right? Your company paid me $16 million for a form of hate speech. So maybe they'll have to go after you.

Look, we want everything to be fair. It hasn't been fair. And the radical left has done tremendous damage to the country.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BASH: Jon Karl's question was about the President's definition of something that has to do with the First Amendment of the Constitution. And Tamara, the President said maybe she'll go after you. In this climate -- TAMARA KEITH, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, NPR: Yes.

BASH: -- for the President of the United States to say that to a high- profile journalist.

KEITH: It is absolutely chilling. And I think that is the intent. President Trump has sued numerous news organizations, including ABC, but also including the New York Times just last night. That was announced.

He has a definition of free speech that is different than the definition of free speech that is in the Constitution. President Trump -- there is certain speech that President Trump doesn't like. If it is critical of him, he doesn't like it. And he says it is bad. He says it should be illegal. And he is going after journalists.

BASH: There's the Constitution. And then there is how our highest court in the land has interpreted the court --

KEITH: Yes.

BASH: -- the Constitution over the last few years. Conservative darling Antonin Scalia wrote for the majority in 1992 about a case having to do with free speech and whether free speech and hate speech, how you sort of find the line. And he wrote that the city government of St. Paul, who was involved in Minnesota, could not write laws criminalizing speech based on viewpoint, even when the law only applied to fighting words.

And there is an exception to the First Amendment. And there are a couple of other examples of what the Supreme Court has said.

I have seen just online some very prominent conservatives warning the President, whom they like very much, saying, take it easy on this. We have to preserve the right to say things. Even if they are things that people don't like, it obviously crosses the line. And it's a gray line when it comes to inciting violence.

ZELENY: There's no doubt. And when the President just a few weeks ago signed an executive order to ban flag burning and instructed his attorney general to basically find a case that could be tested with the Supreme Court, many conservatives came out, prominent conservative voices came out and said, no, no, we do not want to go there.

Scalia also, obviously, a leading voice in that case from the 90s. But, look, the bottom line here is President Trump relishes when he has an enemy. He relishes when he has an opponent. Talking about Joe Biden has kind of grown tired. So he is looking for new opponents. And he's been pretty successful, actually, with these media lawsuits.

But just a bit of context with the President and Jon Karl there. That was also -- it was chilling, but it was also very performative.

BASH: Of course.

ZELENY: Because their -- Jon Karl has covered President Trump a very long time, and there are few reporters that the President will pick up the phone for faster than Jon Karl. That was also performative. Like, the President hates The New York Times, but he --

BASH: Yes.

ZELENY: -- loves The New York Times.

BASH: But I think performative and chilling --

ZELENY: It's both.

BASH: -- are --

KEITH: Are the same.

BASH: Are the same.

ZELENY: It is both. It is both.

BASH: Because he's trying to get people not to --

ZELENY: And just because the President thinks that his underlings and others --

BASH: Yes.

ZELENY: -- his followers do not have that history --

BASH: Yes.

ZELENY: -- and context. That's, to me, one of the reasons it's so chilling.

BASH: I'm glad you brought that up because, as we've said, Jonathan Karl, I mean, I was his producer when he worked at CNN. I've known him for a long time.

ZELENY: Former colleague, longtime friend of all of ours.

BASH: Yes, he's a terrific reporter. And that bit of context that the President does pick up the phone when Jon Karl calls. There is a defamation suit that the President, just on the sort of chilling question, that Brian Stelter was reporting on. I'll read the following from the CNN right.

The lawsuit -- this is the Trump administration against, or the President, I should say, against The New York Times. $15 billion defamation suit. "The lawsuit is the latest example of what First Amendment experts have described as a presidential strategy to silence critical news coverage and curb free speech by filing legally dubious lawsuits. It's an 85-page suit that reads at times like a pro-Trump op-ed, with page after page of gushing praise for the President."

[12:45:09]

So, I mean, we'll see. We'll see what court this goes through and whether it's dismissed or whether it continues. But as we have seen with other lawsuits, when you file a suit, then there's discovery and there's all kinds of things that maybe is intended by filing the lawsuit to be made public or settle.

SOTOMAYOR: Right. I mean, it's just another example of Trump also trying to intimidate the press. And we've seen, you know, him go after ABC, also go after CBS. And it seems like this is just the late --

BASH: And they settled.

SOTOMAYOR: And they settled, right. We'll see what The New York Times does here. But it is just a continuation of intimidation. And, I mean, how other news organizations respond, I mean, we're all watching. But how we respond even to this, our allies, right? And the press is going to be notable.

ZELENY: And perhaps to change the subject from the defamation lawsuit against Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal, which isn't looking so good right now because of the Epstein thing, so.

BASH: I want to turn to something else that happened this morning, which is a call for calm. And this came from a governor whose house was burned in an arson attack over a Jewish holiday. And luckily, he and his family were not hurt. He had a big speech this morning talking, of course, about Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania in Pittsburgh. Let's listen to some of his message.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA: During moments like this, I believe we have a responsibility to be clear and unequivocal in calling out all forms of political violence and making clear it is all wrong. That shouldn't be hard to do. Unfortunately, some, from the dark corners of the Internet all the way to the Oval Office, want to cherry pick which instances of political violence they want to condemn.

Listen, doing that only further divides us, and it makes it harder to heal.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BASH: Tamara?

KEITH: Yes. And Governor Shapiro is one of many people trying to give voice to the idea that what is needed in a time of political upset is a measure of calm from all. And, you know, you talk to political scientists who will say that political violence is contagious and the only way to combat it, or one of the ways to combat it, is to have people in areas of influence to urge -- to say that it's wrong, to make it clear to people that this is not a way to solve problems.

BASH: Yes. I mean, the problem, though, with our society and our culture right now is that --

KEITH: Yes. BASH: -- people who have big jobs, they have megaphones, but it's not the same as the idea of reading things in your own social media ecosystem and on your feed that is encouraging a person to either hate somebody they don't agree with or, God forbid, engage in that kind of violence.

ZELENY: Right. And it's entirely possible that someone who is so driven by the algorithms and things, if they only see that the violence is coming from one side or the other, that is totally possible. If you just got your information off of what has fed you without looking to other sources and things, that is possible.

But I think that is why, to Governor Shapiro's point about the cherry- picking of facts, it does happen by both sides as well. But this is not a both-side problem. It's an all-sides American problem.

SOTOMAYOR: Yes, no, I agree. Like, this is -- I've been talking to a number of Democrats in particular about this because Republicans have had such a good advantage, good being, you know, for political reasons, on social media. Democrats have been trying to penetrate that as best as they can.

But really, they have all these different channels with podcasters and so many influential voices online where that bleeds a lot faster. Their perspective does travel a lot faster. And Democrats, I mean, they're out there. They're trying, right? They are speaking, as we just heard the governor, trying to temper this political speech. But there is this concern from them that they can't break through and that what they're hearing more from Republicans is actually affecting people.

BASH: Well, they are breaking through, but the only people who are really hearing it are the people who already support them, which is part of what's happening on the Republican side, too.

Thank you all. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

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[12:54:30]

BASH: Today we remember one of the great movie stars, directors, and activists of all time. Robert Redford died today. Whether he was making us consider our political system as the candidate.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

ROBERT REDFORD, HOLLYWOOD ICON: I wonder if anybody understood what I was trying to do.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BASH: Opening our eyes to political corruption is Bob Woodward in "All the President's Men."

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP) REDFORD: Yours is better.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it's hard to eat (ph).

REDFORD: If you're going to do it, do it right. Here are my notes. If you're going to hype it, hype it with the facts. I don't mind what you did. I mind the way you did.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

[12:55:16]

BASH: Or in my personal favorite scene in any movie ever, reminding us the way we were as Hubbell Gardiner.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your girl is lovely, Hubbell. Why don't you bring her for a drink when you come?

HUBBELL GARDINER, PLAYED BY REDFORD: I can't.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BASH: Robert Redford was an icon, but his acting career is only part of what made him a sensation. Redford was also an Academy Award winning director and the creator of the Sundance Institute, an annual film festival named, of course, after his breakout blockbuster film the "Sundance Kid."

Offscreen, Redford was a dedicated environmentalist.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

REDFORD: We're going to be looking to you to assume the leading role in combating climate change. And I, for one, hope you will embrace that role with courage and conviction.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BASH: He was a natural, to be sure. Robert Redford was 89 years old. May his memory be a blessing.

Thanks for joining Inside Politics today. CNN News Central starts after a quick break.

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