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Inside Politics

Trump Heads To Kirk Memorial In Fraught Political Moment; Trump Demands Attorney General Pursue Opponents "Now"; Harris Hits Nerve As Democratic Heavyweights Punch Back. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired September 21, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:55]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(MUSIC)

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN HOST (voice-over): Crossroads.

The president and his team headlined Charlie Kirk's funeral, while Trump pressures his attorney general to go after his opponents.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They're guilty. They're not guilty. We have to act fast.

CHALIAN: And cracks down on criticism.

TRUMP: They'll take a great story and they'll make it bad. I think that's really illegal, personally.

CHALIAN: Who's next?

Plus, snubbed.

STEPHEN A. SMITH, ESPN HOST: This was the last straw.

CHALIAN: Vice President Harris spars with potential 2020 rivals.

GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA: She's going to have to answer to how she was in the room and yet never said anything publicly.

CHALIAN: With competing visions --

(CHANTING)

CHALIAN: -- can Democrats use the 2025 elections to turn their fortunes around?

And bring home the bacon?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Should Trump also tone down his rhetoric?

REP. DON BACON (R-NE): Absolutely.

CHALIAN: Our exclusive with the Republican who stands up to Trump.

BACON: There's a difference between threatening media, so they pull their license. That's not right.

CHALIAN: But are Republican voices like his, about to become extinct?

INSIDE POLITICS, the best reporting from inside the corridors of power, starts now.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHALIAN (on camera): Good morning and welcome to INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. I'm David Chalian, in for Manu Raju.

This morning, the president's promised retribution is now in full reveal. Overnight, he called on his attorney general to aggressively pursue his political foes, James Comey, Adam Schiff, New York Attorney General Letitia James, writing, quote, "They're all guilty as hell. It's a completely unprecedented use of his presidential power."

And it comes as the president's MAGA movement reaches an inflection point, a crackdown on speech, dissent and Trump's adversaries, all as the leaders of the MAGA movement, prepare to gather and mourn Charlie Kirk in Arizona today.

Let's begin with CNN's Kevin Liptak on the ground for us in Arizona -- Kevin.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, David.

This is extraordinary, even for a president who has shattered all norms of political distance from the Justice Department, this really does go a step further, publicly, directly calling on the nation's top law enforcement officer to prosecute those he views as his enemies. The president writing on Truth Social, "Pam, we can't delay any longer. It's killing our reputation and our credibility. They impeached me twice and indicted me five times over nothing. Justice must be served now."

And the president naming those three individuals, James Comey, the former FBI director, Adam Schiff, the Democratic senator who led the impeachment efforts into President Trump. And Letitia James, the attorney general of New York state who brought charges against the president. The president saying they were all guilty as hell, later on the south lawn, saying they have to act fast.

Now, this all seems to stem from the ouster late last week of the U.S. attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia after he decided not to bring charges against James Comey, the president, saying that he would nominate an assistant to the president, Lindsey Halligan, to fill that post. She is someone who served on the president's legal team. She is not someone who has any prosecutorial experience. She served most of her career as an insurance lawyer. Now the president will be heading here to Arizona later today. They're

sending two planes of officials from the White House, which does give you a sense. One of the impact that Charlie Kirk's death had on the Trump administration, but also the scale of the event that is underway here.

The stadium behind me holds 73,000 people. Authorities on the ground here say they expect as many as 100,000 people could come out for this event, really underscoring sort of the watershed moment of the conservative movement that this death and that this assassination has prompted -- David.

CHALIAN: Kevin Liptak, thanks so much for the reporting. Appreciate it.

So, let's begin, guys, with President Trump's demands on Pam Bondi overnight, and that she should bring criminal charges against every political foe.

[08:05:00]

Seung Min, is this not the president delivering on his campaign promise of retribution? Is that what's going on here?

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, that was one major, if not the major, theme of his return to the White House when he was campaigning again for the presidency, that he would take revenge effectively on his political opponents. I mean, it's not just in the aftermath of the tragedy, tragic, tragic killing of Charlie Kirk, where you -- where the administration has then in the days since kind of outlined and sketched out this broad, you know, investigative campaign towards the left and other people that critics say are kind of, you know, they're kind of using the levers of power that they have to go after their political opponents.

But this has been a theme of the president's, you know -- you know, second term for some time. And it's just much more out there. You know, we are -- he's not hiding the ball in any way.

CHALIAN: Clever about it, yeah.

KIM: Yeah, exactly. I mean, he wrote basically it was initially confused with his Truth Social post last night with his first post mentioning Pam Bondi was almost like a message, an open letter to her in terms of what he wanted to see.

But yes, he's not hiding what he wants to do. This is a -- you know, a retribution campaign and he wants Pam Bondi and his -- and his officials to move fast.

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: This moment is, though, a sign of the. Intensity of that retribution campaign. Yes. This president came into office and installed loyalists in the Justice Department. Yes. He also had political appointees that ousted some of the career officials in the Justice Department who led investigations into the president as well, right, in a sign of just how he viewed this Justice Department and the sort of undermining of its traditional independence.

After Watergate, there were measures put in place to establish the Justice Department as independent from the executive branch so that it wouldn't be involved in partisan politics. This kind of action, where you are publicly on social media, directing your attorney general to investigate political enemies with -- irregardless of evidence in those cases, it just completely violates those measures, completely undermines those measures put into place post-Watergate.

CHALIAN: And, Bres, is this another example of Republicans are going to be silent on this on Capitol Hill? Are you hearing any concerns about what he's directing Pam Bondi to do?

JOHN BRESNAHAN, PUNCHBOWL NEWS CO-FOUNDER: Not yet. But of course. There, you know, this happened over the weekend. They're gone. They're on recess for Rosh Hashanah. They've left for the week. They've got their own crisis with funding the government which is coming up.

But the other thing is like, look at look at the part of this is that first they force out Erik Siebert, the U.S. attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia, who was prosecuting this case and --

(CROSSTALK)

CHALIAN: -- is appointed by Donald Trump. I just want to make that clear.

BRESNAHAN: Exactly, his own guy, but he wouldn't -- he wouldn't charge Letitia James. And now, they're announcing Lindsey Halligan, who's Trump's, you know, a special assistant to the president.

There's you know, I'm not -- I'm not saying anything bad about her, but she has no prosecutorial experience. As you guys noted, she would never be confirmed to this post. And she would never -- she would never get nominated to this post. Okay?

It's clear what he wants. It's so clear -- he -- it couldn't be clearer what he's saying to the Justice Department, I want -- you know, James is probably the easiest one. I want her charged.

CHALIAN: Right.

BRESNAHAN: And it's going -- and he wants it to happen. And what if what if this person -- Lindsey Halligan doesn't do it? Is he going to fire, her too? I mean, that's -- you know, we are really at a very slippery slope right now.

CHALIAN: Yes. And as you noted, you said, because he didn't bring charges against James, he says he didn't bring charges against James because there wasn't sufficient evidence that he thought he could prove beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury.

And this seems to be a bit of a flip of another story we got yesterday about Tom Homan, the border czar, who apparently, according to "The New York Times", he accepted a bag with $50,000 in cash. I think it was a bag from Cava, it says here. Mr. Homan -- (CROSSTALK)

KIM: Yeah, great restaurant. Yeah.

CHALIAN: Mr. Homan's encounter with the undercover agents recorded on audiotape led him to be investigated for potential bribery and other crimes, after he apparently took the money and agreed to help the agents, who were posing as businessmen, secure future government contracts related to border security, the people said. I just want to explain here.

So, in 2024, he's not in government. He is not the target of this investigation. But he suggests maybe that he can help if he is to return to government or the like and is giving this money for something in exchange. Justice Department looks into this and says, there's not sufficient evidence. The FBI -- Patel put out a statement, said this was looked into and this was closed down because there was not sufficient evidence.

So why, when it is a president's ally -- not sufficient evidence is a is a reasonable thing that the president can accept as true. But when it's his opponent's, he doesn't believe it, when the prosecutor says there's not sufficient?

KIM: Right, and I believe administration officials said of that closed investigation into Mr. Homan, that that initial investigation was politically motivated.

[08:10:06]

And that was one of the reasons why this was not, you know, pursued further. But yes, it does -- I mean, I would be very you know, Bres and I were talking about this before the show. I would be -- with the Homan story. I'd be really interested to see the fallout, if any, on Capitol Hill.

Obviously, we know that Democrats have effectively no power at this point. That's why the coming midterm elections are so critical for the Democratic Party. If they're able to -- if they're able to gain at least some sort of power back here in Washington. But it's, again, another -- another example in a long line of ways where they're really deploying the powers that they have, the levers of government power in order to advance their goals, what they believe is right here.

CHALIAN: Yeah. And so that's on the justice side of things. But we also saw this crackdown on speech this week. We saw some pressure, public pressure applied from the FCC chairman, Brendan Carr, to ABC and Disney. Clearly, they took action like immediately afterwards, suspended indefinitely. Jimmy Kimmel after he made some comments about the political response to the horrific assassination of Charlie Kirk and his monologue early last week.

This -- I said to you before, Bres, are you hearing silence from Republicans. Here on this issue, we're starting to hear some Republicans express concern about that kind of public pressure from Brendan Carr. Listen to Ted Cruz, the senator from Texas, on his podcast earlier this week.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Look, look, I like Brendan Carr. But what he said there is dangerous as hell. He says, we can do this the easy way, or we can do this the hard way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.

CRUZ: And I got to say, that's right out of Goodfellas, that's right out of a mafioso coming into a bar going, "Nice bar you have here. It'd be a shame if something happened to it."

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BRESNAHAN: I'm so glad you played that clip, because you can't really appreciate it unless you hear it.

KIM: Yeah, that voice.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

BRESNAHAN: I mean, for Ted Cruz to say this, you know, one of the most outspoken Republicans, one of the most hardcore Republicans, you get to say what Carr did was wrong, inappropriate, is fascinating.

What gets me is that you don't have more Republicans doing it. But I think with Cruz opening that up, I think you'll see this. And I think he's exactly right, though. If you can do this to one side, you can do the Democratic president appoint an FCC chair and they can do it to the other side.

I think what's also you have to see is that like to me is that it plays in this whole thing of Trump is -- he's -- the Trump administration is weighing into corporate issues unlike any other administration we've ever seen, like the Intel issue. They kind of theme these bigger corporations. What's fascinating to me is you think they are immune because they're so big and it's the opposite. They're so big. There's so many pressure points for them because not only did they go after Disney, they went after Nexstar and they went and Sinclair, they went down the chain and used multiple levels, to pressure --

CHALIAN: All of whom have business before this --

BRESNAHAN: Before the government, right.

CHALIAN: Zolan, this is all swirling as the MAGA movement gathers to mourn Charlie Kirk in Arizona today, in sort of an unprecedented level of -- I mean, two planeloads of government officials from Washington going and given what we have seen, Donald Trump has done anything but try to, like, bring everyone together on this. Like, this is a politically charged event, even one surrounded in sorrow and mourning. What do you expect from this? KANNO-YOUNGS: It is a politically charged event. We have seen the

White House since this assassination also lean in into trying to capture this movement that Charlie Kirk did help mobilize for Donald Trump and expanding his base. I mean, we had the vice president from the White House, guest host Carlie Kirk's podcast just a couple of days after the assassination. And you had a string of senior officials come in.

Now you're seeing, yes, the vice president as well as the president go to this memorial trying to basically capture this political movement. He did mobilize -- help mobilize and expand Trump's base. And also, you had officials in the White House that really did develop a relationship with him.

That said, they're going to continue to face questions about this crackdown and their commitment to free speech in the days ahead.

CHALIAN: Yeah. I think we should be watching carefully how much the rhetoric amps up in the aftermath of this memorial today, versus actually starts toning down a little bit.

Coming up, Manu's exclusive interview with one of the rare Republicans who has spoken out against Trump, and he doesn't hold back as Trump cracks down on free speech.

Plus, prominent Democrats are pushing back at Kamala Harris. Why her new book has tongues wagging.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:19:09]

CHALIAN: Kamala Harris's score settling in her new book is raising eyebrows among Democrats, with her potential 2028 rivals punching back at her candid comments. So, has Harris written her own final chapter?

My excellent panel is back.

Zolan, I want you to hear what Stephen A. Smith, also sometimes rumored to be a potential 2028 presidential candidate -- as bizarre a sentence as that is. What he said when he was on CNN with my colleague Laura Coates on Friday night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN A. SMITH, ESPN HOST: I believe her political career is over. The minute people buy this book and read it with the stuff that she could have said and the stuff that she could have done but refrained from doing, which obviously contributed to her losing the election. It's too little too late.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHALIAN: Do you agree?

KANNO-YOUNGS: First of all, man, Stephen, always, always. (LAUGHTER)

[08:20:03]

KANNO-YOUNGS: This moment is interesting here, right? I mean, we -- the immediate reaction from fellow Democrats as well to criticize -- some prominent Democrats, some other contenders as well, to criticize the vice president here, it is interesting. And, you know, when you look at options for her moving forward, you know, there was a lot of talk about governor of California, that's obviously out. So, the question is what do you do next here?

But if I had to step back and say, sort of what makes this excerpt and what's come out already extraordinary. I covered the vice president a lot in those four years. This is somebody who at times was cautious to a fault, and her own aides thought that stuck to the script in the campaign.

In hindsight, one thing that some of her aides say she probably should have done is not be as dictated by the loyalty she had to the West Wing. And now you have her coming out and revealing a scene like Joe Biden calling her just before she's going to go out on the debate stage and saying that he had heard she had been badmouthing her as well just before she's going to go on the debate stage.

I mean, something like this, if you were covering her while she was still in office, would have been unheard of to hear about. So that's what makes it so fascinating. Equally as fascinating is also the reaction from Democrats.

CHALIAN: I want to play some of that reaction from the potential 2028 rivals after they sort of saw what was in the book, or at least also the notion of whether she kept too quiet during her time in office. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE BUTTIGIEG, FORMER TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: I was surprised when I read that. I just believe in giving Americans more credit than that. You know, my experience in politics has been that the way that you earn trust with voters is based mostly on what they think you're going to do for their lives, not on categories.

GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA: She's going to have to answer to how she was in the room. And yet never said anything publicly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHALIAN: Seung Min, what do you make of how Shapiro and Buttigieg are sort of posting up in this moment against Harris?

KIM: Well, the Shapiro-Harris sort of -- if you do this, if you will, it was really -- it has been the most fascinating one to watch, because we had heard kind of murmurs of potentially why she didn't go for the Shapiro option during the, during the veepstakes, if you will, because it seemed like such a slam dunk choice at the time, particularly because of its popularity in the state of Pennsylvania.

But I just -- her candor in this book, especially about her potential 2028 fellow candidates. I know it did make me think maybe she isn't, you know, running again. It's just so -- it's just so different from what she had been. And this is the -- this is the Kamala Harris where people close to her said, this is this is what she's like behind the scenes. She is, you know, funny, blunt, profane. And we just never saw that.

KANNO-YOUNGS: And why, why, why not show that?

KIM: Exactly, exactly. Yeah. It just made me wonder what she's going to do.

BRESNAHAN: So much and dealing with her as a senator. Like she was very sharp. I mean, I remember dealing with stories when she ran for the Senate. I worked on her story and she called me and yelled at me.

So, you know, I -- and then we sit and we would talk in the hallway. I do think this is exactly what she wants. She wants to -- she needs to put this the careful Kamala behind her.

KIM: Right.

BRESNAHAN: And I think this is why she needs to pick a fight because she doesn't have right now -- there's no buzz on her.

KIM: Right.

BRESNAHAN: You know? And there was all these guys -- all -- everyone was watching. Is she going to run for governor? And if she doesn't run, that means she's running for president. That's how they intended to be --

CHALIAN: I think the question is, is this rebrand because of trying to position for a potential presidential run, or is this rebrand to shed that image and just move on with some other aspect of her life? Obviously, we don't know the answer to that.

Before we run, I want to get from you, Bres, because you also roam the halls and run into AOC. There was reporting from "Axios" this week that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, having her staff size up a potential Senate run or a potential presidential run.

What is the -- what is the thinking among her Democratic colleagues about her future, since she clearly has such a strong bond with the grassroots of the party?

BRESNAHAN: Oh, yeah, she's -- I mean, she raises more money than anybody. She raised more money than a lot of leaders, party leaders. I think she's seen definitely. Everyone's wondering what's Schumer going to do in 2028 because he's up. You know you know we interviewed him this week. He didn't want to talk about 2028.

She -- I think -- you know, there was talk about her running for mayor or talking about running for governor. I do think she's seen as a senatorial candidate. I'm not sure in the Hills, she's seen as presidential material yet, but I think that's just a function of she's young and she's been there for a while, but she's still pretty young and she's come so far, and she's done such a good job in making herself a national figure.

But I do think they definitely see her as a senatorial candidate in 2018.

CHALIAN: The money is astounding. I mean, she has more small dollar donors than the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee has in the first six months of this year. It is indeed remarkable.

Okay. Up next, Trump's not on the ballot, but he might as well be. We are just weeks away from voters first big chances to weigh in on his second term in office.

[08:25:08]

What to expect, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHALIAN: We're just about six weeks away from the most consequential elections of the year. Voters' first chance to weigh in, not just on local issues, but also on President Trump and the direction of the country.

Let's begin with the race for New York City mayor. Here's our most recent CNN Poll of Polls. As you can see, Democratic Socialist Zohran Mamdani is leading the race by 20 points on average. Of course, the big question about whether some big names drop out of this race still lingering over the race.

Then there's the race for Virginia governor. A new poll out this week shows Democrat Abigail Spanberger, leading Republican Lieutenant Governor Winsome Sears by 12 percentage points.

And in the Garden State, New Jersey, Democrat Mikie Sherrill is besting her opponent at the moment, Republican Jack Ciattarelli, at least in this Quinnipiac poll, by eight percentage points, 49 percent to 41 percent.

I want to bring back in the panel.

And Seung Min if the races on election day actually end up the way these polls look right now, there's going to be a pretty interesting conversation inside the Democratic Party because the candidate profile across those three races is not the same --

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.

CHALIAN: -- and sort of which direction points the path forward for.

KIM: Well, I think, a lot of Democratic leadership would hope that the candidate profiles -- the candidate profiles that they focus on will be of the Spanbergers and the Mikie Sherrills. I mean, that's like the Chuck Schumer dream candidate, if you will if you're talking about a Democratic -- Democratic politician.

But yes, it's going to spur a lot of really interesting conversation about where, you know, what is the successful model for Democrats here.

I'm actually really focused on what Trump's going to do. I was really taken by his remarks on Friday. He was asked about this. What if he's going to kind of get involved, particularly in the Virginia race and his you know -- in Washington, D.C.'s backyard.

And he and he said, you know, I got to look into that. He called it a semi-local election, which I guess is technically true.

But as we know, as we political junkies know, these off-year races, particularly Virginia, which I know has been blue, but still it has been a swing -- it has been a swing state. You know, Glenn Youngkin is currently the governor.

It says so much about our politics in this moment. And I find it so interesting Trump downplaying that a lot.

CHALIAN: Yes, no doubt about it. It was also interesting. It was Sean Spicer who asked --

(CROSSTALKING)

KIM: Yes. It was Spicer who asked that question. Yes.

CHALIAN: Let's take a look here at some recent presidential election results from my home state, New Jersey. And you sort of see even a blue state like Jersey getting a little, you know, more narrow for the Democrats.

Clinton in 2016 wins the state by 14 points. In 2020, Biden wins it by 16 points. Kamala Harris you know, Trump pulled within six points of her in New Jersey in 2024.

If you look at the last gubernatorial election also, Phil Murphy, if you remember, had a surprisingly close race against Jack Ciattarelli, the Republican nominee now. He only won his reelection race four years ago by three percentage points.

What do you make of that? And is New Jersey, do you think, trending a little purple or some of the advantages that Trump and the Republicans made last year?

Is that going to continue this year for him, or it's a different political dynamic and environment?

JOHN BRESNAHAN, PUNCHBOWL NEWS CO-FOUNDER: We definitely have to see, because it was -- Trump was so strong last year and he ran in a lot of blue areas very well. Picked up the Midwest, you know, ran up big numbers in red states.

So I mean, we have to see. But I was thinking the same thing, and I did not think Sherrill's lead was that big. If you look at where Spanberger is, I was like -- I saw that poll. I was like, that's a little closer than I thought it would be. I, I honestly thought it would be double digits.

So yes, well definitely have to see it. I do think if Spanberger wins, I mean, I think she immediately becomes a VP nominee or potential VP nominee for any Democrat.

I was thinking, do we say the same thing for Sherrill? I'm not sure.

But it does interest me that these are former members. They're cautious, they're smart. They're running very contained campaigns. They're running -- they're trying to say, you know, look at -- look at Spanberger's campaign. Look at the ad she's running about.

She's been endorsed by a couple of Republican -- former Republican members. I think Sherrill is trying to run the same way.

So even in a blue state like New Jersey, she's running a careful campaign saying she can do things with Republicans. She's bashing them, but not, you know, just not vitriol we normally see.

CHALIAN: Yes. Right. And I know every White House hates to attach themselves to elections where the president is not the one on the ballot. They love to say, oh, this isn't a referendum on us and what have you.

But obviously the president does dictate a lot of the national political environment. And there is a Trump factor in these races.

I want you to take a look on a couple of ads running from the candidates in New Jersey as it relates to the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ciattarelli wants to be the Trump of Trenton.

Jack Ciattarelli, 100 percent MAGA, 100 percent wrong for New Jersey.

JACK CIATTARELLI, REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE, NEW JERSEY: We all know it. New Jersey is a mess. And all Mikie Sherrill wants to talk about is President Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHALIAN: So she clearly is trying to hang Trump around him in some ways, even though she's also talking about affordability. And Ciattarelli is not afraid, I guess, to call her out on that as part of the response. What do you make of that?

[08:34:50]

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I mean, this is a test of the political momentum that's behind the MAGA brand, particularly on down ballot races.

It's not the first time we've seen Democratic candidates try to attach their opponent to somebody -- to the president, to the person sitting in the White House, particularly when polling also indicates that his domestic policy package is still unpopular amongst many Americans. Particularly when there's polling that still shows frustration with the economy as well.

You know, on the other end, too, as we've all been getting at Democratic candidates also face a choice here as they look back on the last presidential election of where they're going to be in that pendulum between more centrist, focusing on those kitchen table issues and adopting the progressive platform of their party as well.

CHALIAN: Yes. And Bres, on the mayor's race in New York, you know, the two Democratic leaders you chase around on Capitol Hill, Schumer and Jeffries, still not endorsing the Democratic nominee for mayor in their home city, where they're going to be -- they're going to vote in this election. What is that about?

BRESNAHAN: I think -- well, he's a Democratic Socialist and, you know -- and Hakeem Jeffries and -- Hakeem Jeffries, is especially a careful person.

I think this is a bigger problem for him than Schumer. I mean, Schumer, you know, is so closely identified with support of Israel and Mamdani has made some comments on Israel and Palestine in the past. So that's a problem.

But Jeffries, he's got a bunch of his members that have already endorsed him. And he's coming -- he's coming under fire for doing this. And he is grouchy about it, too.

When you ask him, he's like, when we asked him this weekend, everybody's like, I'll tell -- when I have something, I'll tell you.

But it's shocking to me that he hasn't one way or the other, he hasn't said watch this space, everybody.

(CROSSTALKING)

CHALIAN: Coming up, an exclusive interview with one of the last Republicans willing to challenge President Trump. He says President Trump is wrong to point a finger just at the left.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Should Trump also tone down his rhetoric?

REP. DON BACON (R-NE): Yes, absolutely. Like I've mentioned before, he's a populist. He centers on anger and opposition.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:36:51]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CHALIAN: Nebraska Congressman Don Bacon is among the few remaining Republicans willing to stand up to President Trump. But he's also a dying breed in Congress, one of just three Republicans who prevailed in a district that Kamala Harris won in 2024.

So as Bacon prepares to step away after nearly a decade in Congress, Manu Raju sat down with him this week for an exclusive interview where Bacon did not mince his words about President Trump's rhetoric, relationship with Vladimir Putin, and much more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU: The FCC chairman threatening to pull ABC's broadcast license after this joke that Kimmel made about Charlie Kirk and MAGA and the like.

But then we saw Trump has sued "The New York Times", sued "The Wall Street Journal", told the Associated Press that it can't cover him, at least they tried to at least.

And then we've seen them now talking about going after what they consider hate speech.

There's obviously a First Amendment in this country. Are you concerned about what the message that this sends to the country?

BACON: Well, there have been some wrong statements made, to say the least. When the attorney general said that they were going to go after hate speech, she backed -- she backed off of that. But it was wrong.

And I think the president issuing threats against media is also wrong. We don't threaten the media. I think it's all right to say that was wrong. That information was false. I think there's grounds for that.

But to threaten media and say you'll pull their license, that's not what America is about.

And we do have freedom of speech, freedom of the press. And we should -- we should defend that.

By the way, he hated the fact that he was being censored, you know, prior to this election. And there was evidence of, you know, a lot of his stuff being taken off of Twitter.

RAJU: Yes. Because there was discussion in the right about cancel culture. So is that -- is this now cancel culture on the right?

BACON: It is a little bit. But there's a difference between threatening media and say you'll pull their license. That's not right.

It's wrong to say you're going to prosecute like Pam Bondi was saying. She backed off that, just to do due diligence there.

That's different than saying, hey, what you said was wrong. People are very sensitive right now who you're blaming. I think the blame game is being done too much. I think maybe there should be some assessment where we're seeing a lot

of these shooters from. We have to acknowledge Republicans and Democrats have been murdered in the last year.

And someone tried to burn the house down of the governor of Pennsylvania. It wasn't a guy from the right, it was an anti-Semitic guy going after Governor Shapiro because he's Jewish.

But the point being is Democrats, Republicans alike, office holders are suffering under this threat.

RAJU: Well, from the White House we're hearing this is just a liberal problem, a problem on the left.

BACON: That's not very unifying. I don't think its accurate for one. And it's not unifying.

He had the opportunity here to say -- to acknowledge a couple of Democrats were murdered in Minneapolis, right, by a guy who called himself pro-life. We don't really know his motive, but still, he surely was more on the conservative side, it seems from what we know.

But -- and Governor Shapiro, there was an attempted murder, and now we have Charlie Kirk, a Republican. We've seen some of the -- we've seen some church shootings recently. The fitness -- you know, radicalized people that are angry.

I do think we, as office holders, though, should -- there should be a line we draw. If you're a Democrat, I shouldn't be calling you a Nazi -- or if you're a Republican I would never catch you calling me Nazi or fascist.

[08:44:50]

BACON: Or if you're a Democrat, I shouldn't be calling you a communist or a, you know, an ungodly, immoral.

But whatever our guys do, my point is, we've overdone it. And I think you and I, if I hear somebody being called a Nazi, we just let it go in one ear and out the other ear.

But there's a small element of our population that, you know, they take it serious and they -- and they're radicalized. So I think we owe ourselves better at how we treat each other.

RAJU: Should Trump also toned down his rhetoric?

BACON: Yes, absolutely. Like I've mentioned before, he's a populist. He centers on anger and opposition. That's what he does.

But he had a chance to be more Ronald Reagan to try to unify both sides on this. It would be one thing if it was only Republicans being murdered. But it's not.

RAJU: Brendan Carr, do you think that he should continue as chairman of the FCC? BACON: Well, I'm not prepared -- this is the first time I actually

even hear of his name. I think he made a mistake weighing in on the ABC thing. He is -- his position has to keep him above that.

And we have to protect freedom of speech, freedom of the press. And I don't think Kimmel was fired because of him, but it surely didn't look good.

RAJU: Yes.

BACON: And it was a dumb mistake.

RAJU: Just more broadly, I mean, you were elected in 2016, of course. But you grew up very much in the Ronald Reagan era of conservatism. How do you think that Donald Trump has remade the Republican Party?

BACON: Well, I see some significant changes, and I'm hoping it's not a permanent remaking. I hope it's -- I hope we're going to have a struggle over what we actually believe in.

And I believe in what Ronald Reagan believed in. Peace through strength, strong alliances. I mean, he was a big believer in NATO and standing up to Russia or Soviet Union at the time, of course.

Also believed in federalism. He believed in free trade. So I think there's some key ones there that President Trump is totally different.

RAJU: Do you think he's overreaching on tariffs?

BACON: Well, I think he is by far. Article One of the Constitution clearly gives us the Congress. Granted, we passed three laws in the last century, nothing recently, but the last century that gives the president emergency powers.

But most people will tell you this is not emergency powers what he's doing.

RAJU: And is it hurting your constituents?

BACON: Yes. Right. We heard just yesterday we have a company that makes combines. They're moving all of their manufacturing that makes combines for Canada to Europe.

Because of the tariffs from going to U.S. to Canada are too high, they can't compete. So they're going to move all the manufacturing for Canadian combines to Europe. That's hundreds of jobs right there.

Iowa and Nebraska are really struggling right now with our farm economy. We're not growing markets for corn and soybeans. The president's making trade deals, but not a single country that I can see has bought more corn or soybeans.

RAJU: Yes.

BACON: And that's what we really need right now.

RAJU: How do you think that Reagan would view how Trump is dealing with Putin?

BACON: I think it would be bad. Reagan stood up to Gorbachev. I don't -- I don't see the moral clarity right now out of the White House. Ronald Reagan had moral clarity.

Now, he also was willing to negotiate and try to lower the tensions. But he knew that communism was evil, and he and he -- it was clear that he was stood steadfast with our NATO allies.

And the president sends out such mixed messages on NATO and totally morally-ambiguous messages about Ukraine and Russia. I don't -- it really -- it's probably the thing that bothers me the most.

RAJU: When you say he lacked moral clarity, what about moral character? Do you think the president exhibits the kind of moral character you want to see in the leader of this country?

BACON: Well, I'd rather focus on the moral clarity with Ukraine. He does -- he has said multiple times --

RAJU: Personal character, I mean that's an important issue.

BACON: Yes. It is. Well, if you want to be a leader, people got to trust you and you got to know your word's your bond.

RAJU: Does he have the character that you want to see?

BACON: I'll think I'll skirt -- I'll skirt around that. I would rather -- it's hard to -- I got to be careful about judging someone's what's inside here. I just think we got to be careful about that.

So I'm very reluctant to be judgmental publicly. Maybe I get my private thoughts, but we do need some moral clarity on Ukraine and Russia.

RAJU: But do you Worry that there are not enough Republicans showing independence from your party at this time?

BACON: A little bit, and I sort of understand right now they want to give the president a chance. He's been in office now eight months. Let's give him a chance.

RAJU: Eight months and four years, yes.

BACON: Yes, before that.

I'm of the opinion that I should speak up and hopefully try to bring a point that tariffs aren't working, at least with coffee.

I mean, I went to buy coffee when I came back here for my apartment and it was up $4, the bag that I buy. Right.

People -- that's not -- that's not success right there. So I feel like if we have an opportunity to speak up, other people think they'd rather try to give them more time.

But I think a lot of people share my view on tariffs. They share my view on --

RAJU: A lot of people are scared of it.

BACON: They are.

RAJU: They're terrified about getting --

(CROSSTALKING)

BACON: Yes. I've been -- I've been baptized in fire already. A lot of people don't want to go through that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHALIAN: Coming up, is Speaker Johnson's job getting even harder? Why Democrats could pick up a seat this week.

Stay tuned.

[08:49:48]

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CHALIAN: Topping our political radar, three stories that we're watching this week.

First, the Republican majority in the House could get even smaller after a special election in Arizona this Tuesday. If Democrat Adelita Grijalva prevails in the state's solidly blue seventh district, Speaker Johnson can only lose two Republicans in any party line vote. And it's even more difficult if anyone's absent.

[08:54:51]

CHALIAN: Also this week, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he will meet with President Trump at the U.N. General Assembly meeting in New York. It comes as Russia continues its aerial assault on Ukraine and after NATO intercepted Russian fighter jets that violated Estonia's airspace Friday.

And finally, President Trump says his administration will hold a news conference this week on what he described as an announcement on, quote, "why autism rates have increased". His Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has repeatedly espoused debunked claims about vaccines. Research has shown no link between vaccines and autism.

That's it for INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. You can follow me on X @DavidChalian and follow the show @INSIDEPOLITICS.

And if you ever miss an episode, you can catch up wherever you get your podcasts. Search for INSIDE POLITICS.

Up next, "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JAKE TAPPER AND DANA BASH". Dana's guests include Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, Senator Markwayne Mullin, Senator John Fetterman, and Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett.

Thanks again for sharing your Sunday morning with us. We'll see you next time.

[08:55:57]

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