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Illinois & Chicago Sue Trump Admin. Over Natl. Guard Deployment; Poll: Majority Think Natl. Guard Deployments Have "Gone Too Far"; Congressional Leaders Dig In As Govt. Shutdown Drags Into Second Week; Indirect Israel-Hamas Talks Begin In Egypt. Aired 12- 12:30p ET

Aired October 06, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR, SITUATION ROOM: That's her new song, "The Fate of Ophelia." The music video was released overnight and has already racked up millions of views on YouTube. Swift's 12th album, "The Life of a Showgirl" became Spotify's most streamed Album of the year, just 11 hours after it's released. Wow. And Swift topped the weekend box office. The 90-minute film version of her new album spent three days in theaters and brought in $46 million worldwide.

Well, thank you so much for joining us this morning. Inside Politics with Manu Raju starts right now.

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR, INSIDE POLITICS: Today on Inside Politics, checks, balances and backlash. President Trump is fielding a new lawsuit and judicial ruling over his push to send National Guard troops into American cities. We have new details on the White House plan to fight back and what it could mean for your community.

Plus, House Speaker Mike Johnson says the shutdown ball is in the Senate Democrats court. So will resolve, turn into retreat. I'll speak to a Democratic senator about his party's plans this hour. And supreme consequences. The highest court in the land is back on the bench for a new session. We'll break down why the court's key actions during the summer break may foreshadow this momentous term to come.

I'm Manu Raju in for Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

We start with breaking news and the extraordinary power struggle playing out among the president states and the courts. Illinois just sued the Trump administration to prevent the deployment of Texas National Guard troops to the city of Chicago.

A move Democratic Governor J.B. Pritzker labeled a quote, Trump invasion. And the city's Democratic Mayor Brandon Johnson, just signed an executive order, establishing quote, ICE free zones on city property after a week of ramped up immigration enforcement and tense anti-ICE protests.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MAYOR BRANDON JOHNSON (D) CHICAGO: We need ICE out of our city, so that we can continue to focus on the strategies that have been working to drive violent crime down. ICE lies and people die. We cannot allow this to continue. We must take action more drastic than what we have taken before, because what we are seeing is a more radical attempt to undermine our democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: It means more critical legal battles on the president's crime crackdown After a chaotic 48 hours of emergency rulings in Portland. There a Trump appointed judge twice blocked the White House from deploying troops from Oregon to other states to the city and accused the administration of seeking to circumvent her orders.

I'm joined right now by a terrific group of reporters who cover all of these issues in depth, including Seung Min Kim, who covers the White House for the Associated Press, and also been covering immigration for so many years.

So, Seung Min, take us inside the White House how they're viewing this moment, because Trump is getting put slapped down by the courts, but they're trying to figure out other ways to circumvent what the courts are saying. They're not backing down here.

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST & WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, ASSOCIATED PRESS: They're certainly not backing down. I mean, this is -- I mean, they believe that the president has extreme power to dispatch these troops into these cities that he views as lawless. You know, my question for the White House is, how far does this power actually go? How far do they think they can go, particularly when they are seeing resistance from the courts to get into -- to get a handle into the White House?

Thinking, I was really struck by a stream of social media posts from Stephen Miller, one of the president's top aides who is overseeing Homeland Security. And he says the president has, quote, undisputed authority under the law and the constitution to essentially protect federal property that's coming, he says, under assault by these protesters.

And -- but looking at the reports from the ground, you know, looking at how the A.P. reporters on the ground are describing it. I mean, obviously there have been times when the protests have flared up back in June, but these have been relatively small. You know, these are nightly demonstrations that have been, you know, no more than a few dozen people. And that's also the rationale cited by the Trump appointed judge and her rulings when she ruled against the administration.

RAJU: Yeah, the judge is Karin Immergut. She's a U.S. district judge from the district of Oregon. She was appointed by Trump in 2019. She was actually confirmed by the Senate by a voice vote back then. She's a long-standing. She's worked for Chief Justice Roberts, George W. Bush, and the like you can see there on your screen, some of her background, but Stephen Miller as Seung Min was just referring to. Among the things he was tweeting about this weekend was about this judge, calling it a quote, legal insurrection. That was the words from the president's one of his closest aides.

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TIA MITCHELL, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION: Yeah. And when you talk about the type of language that could be problematic, that could bring unintended consequences to our judges. I think that that's among them because insurrection is a crime. It's a serious crime in America. And so, I think as we continue to talk about political rhetoric and how it could lead to violence, I think there's room to be concerned about exactly the phrasing used when we're talking about judges' orders

But also, even that phrasing is a distraction when you actually look at what the judge said to Seung Min's point, which is that she believes the Trump administration is using false pretext to justify sending the National Guard into cities. And I think that's really what the Trump administration needs to reckon with, is, why are they really sending the National Guard in and is it legal?

RAJU: Yeah. And that this -- those are all key questions. Also, the key question is, how do Democrats respond? We saw this lawsuit that has now just been filed by Illinois. Of course, Democrats run Illinois J.B. Pritzker, the Democratic governor there has been out front on this. Gavin Newsom too, pushing back after they got involved over the weekend as Trump tried to send the National Guard there into Oregon as well. Trump got pushed. The administration got rejected by the courts.

At the moment on that, Gavin Newsom tweeted. This is a breathtaking abuse of the law and power by the president United States. America is on the brink of martial law. Do not be silent. That's what he said on Sunday night.

What do you make of the Democrats handling of this issue? Because, of course, crime, immigration have been issues that have tripped them up year cycle after cycle, but this moment is a little bit different.

HANS NICHOLS, POLITICAL REPORTER, AXIOS: They seem to be racing to challenge Trump, and that seems to be the bigger imperative to sort of show strength in confronting Trump, as opposed to addressing some of these issues that at the margins they talk about. There's -- I believe the mayor in Memphis has talked about sort of a little bit more of a law-and-order approach, of course, he's also out there.

So, questioning whether or not the authorities and -- are there for the National Guard deployment there? So, it seems like every time we have this conversation. You toss to Gavin Newsom. We have a Gavin Newsom soundbite or tweet, and a J.B. Pritzker soundbite or tweet, which tells me they want to talk about it.

And I think that tells us something going forward in this entire confrontation with Trump and the courts, Trump and the Democrats, Trump and Congress, which I think we'll get to in another block. But there are certain Democrats that have figured out how to harness this energy, and they seem to be relishing the conflict, if not the overall contours of the fight.

MITCHELL: I just, you know, I know this show is Inside Politics, and of course, we're talking about the politics of it all. But particularly in a city like Chicago, if you're really talking about the crime in the city and the root causes of crime in the city of Chicago, which even its leaders know there is a problem they've been working to address it.

It's not related to ICE and immigration enforcement, not directly. We're talking about young black men, often in black neighborhoods that are the victims and the perpetrators of most of the crime that, the murders, the homicide race that gets a lot of the attention.

And so, I really hope and would wish that the Trump administration listen to and center the people that are actually on the ground, boots on the ground trying to address this because they're not saying send National Guard to ICE facilities. They're saying, give us the resources in the programming and the funding to really get to what we know are the root causes of crime in our city.

RAJU: And one of the real issues is that if there may not be coordination between what's happening on the ground with these, you know, especially with Brandon Johnson, the Democratic mayor, essentially saying that, not to cooperate with the federal law enforcement. That has significant ramifications about when these troops are on the ground, how they're going to respond to what they're seeing?

KIM: How they're going to respond? What kind of information they're getting from federal officials? We know the Oregon governor has been on the phone with the White House. But yes, there is -- there's this just really tense clash, particularly between blue cities and blue states and this administration.

And I want to go back to what you were talking about with Hans and talking about the president's relative strength when it comes to crime and immigration and the Democrats' relative weaknesses on those issues. That is true--

RAJU: But before you continue, I just want to show viewers the poll on that issue. 48, 47 Trump approval, disapproval on the issue of crime, better than most issues right now. But in the question about sending the National Guard to big cities. That's a different question, because lot of voters, a majority of voters, according to this poll, believe he's gone too far. 53 percent say, he's gone too far.

KIM: Right. That was the point I was going to make. If you look at the actual tactics and what non-partisan polling says, Americans do oppose these tactics. Now, does public sentiment deter the administration? I'm not quite sure, because, as we've discussed, this has been a long time coming, particularly from -- particularly from those who are among his closest aides now.

NICHOLS: Now those polls are blowouts either, those are both very close. And when the White House sees close polls like that, they think it's an issue they can win, especially when they revert to what they always do, which is Trump's gut.

[12:10:00]

KIM: Right.

NICHOLS: And the president is convinced that this is an issue that favors him, and I suspect, therefore we'll keep seeing it in the news and him being aggressive on it. But what struck me about those polls is just how close they are?

RAJU: Yeah.

MITCHELL: The gone too far, though. Number was 52 percent, and that number is just increasing as the skirmishes between the blue cities and states and the White House continues. You know, it's not like he's gaining support as he continues to push to send the National Guard into cities where they do not want him to do so.

RAJU: And I suspect as we get closer to the midterms, the more of those skirmishes that we shall see and we'll see how the voters respond, and those polls respond as well. All right. Moments ago, an ultimatum from House Speaker Mike Johnson. The House, he says, won't come back until senators turn the lights back on. So how will Democrats respond? Well, I get to ask a Democratic senator that question next.

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[12:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RAJU: There is no end in sight as the U.S. enters day six of the federal government shutdown. Senators are back at the Capitol, but there are no negotiations among congressional leaders. Democrats want to extend expiring Obamacare subsidies as a condition for their votes, while Republicans say, reopen the government before taking on that issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): There's nothing for us to negotiate or to debate right now, because the House already did that. The House did its job. We passed our bill. We did the job to keep the government open and now it's on the Senate Democrats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: All right. Here with me now in studio, one of those Senate Democrats, Andy Kim of New Jersey. Senator Kim, thank you so much for being here.

SEN. ANDY KIM (D-NJ): Thanks for having me on.

RAJU: Absolutely. So, you heard the speaker right there. He said they're not bringing the House back. And there's one bill that passed to reopen the government that you guys have blocked now four times. Why not let that pass? Approve this bill now. And then negotiate all these issues that you want to deal with, including the Obama secure subsidies while the government is open for the next seven weeks or so.

KIM: Yeah. Well, look, the speaker is coming at this from a place of weakness. He knows that he's on the wrong side of this issue. Nearly 80 percent of Americans know and want to support including ACA subsidies in terms of what we move forward on, because they know that a lot of Americans are really struggling right now.

And Speaker Johnson, you know, I mean, first of all, shame on him for not bringing the House of Representatives back. He continuing to give them a paid vacation, while every other single public servant, including our military troops are not getting paid. That is a dereliction of duty. It's one of the most reckless actions I've ever seen from a speaker of the House.

And the reason why Manu, that he's doing this is because he knows that his caucus would actually vote for this. If we had a vote on the floor of the House of Representatives to whether or not to support the ACA subsidy extension or not, it would pass the House of Representatives.

RAJU: But again -- but why not just deal with that while the government is open? The government could be open for the next six weeks or so--

KIM: We've been raising this all year, and they haven't done a single thing. We've been raising this issue about ACA subsidies all year long.

RAJU: But isn't this position? I know you guys are concerned about premiums increasing and the like, but isn't this going to make the crisis worse? I mean, people are going to get laid off. People can get furloughed. Government services are not going to be available. This could make the crisis work. It could be pouring gasoline on the fire now.

KIM: Well, look, this is exactly why it is. We need to step up right now and push back against this lawlessness that we see right now. With this administration and with Speaker Johnson and congressional leaders, they have refused to negotiate. We've been asking for negotiations for months now, since the summer.

It was Donald Trump himself that said, don't deal with the Democrats. What did he do? He waited until the last day before the shutdown would come into effect to actually sit down and talk. And Speaker Johnson refusing to get congressional Republicans back. And again, the reason why is because there are 10 members of the Republican House caucus that this month have said that they support extending the ACA subsidies, that is more than enough to pass it through the House of Representative.

RAJU: But if they control the agenda, they control the floor schedule.

KIM: I'm glad you point that out. They control it all. RAJU: And the speaker says, he's not going to bring the House back. You have one choice. So, if you guys vote no, how long is this going to go on for?

KIM: Well, look, you know, the American people see this for what it is. You know, Speaker Johnson can make all the excuses he can, but what Americans see are their leaders on the Republican side not doing their job, not even showing up to work, and that is something that they're not going to stand for.

Right now, the American people are talking about healthcare all over this country. You know, this messaging is working because we are on the right side of it, and the American people want the healthcare. And even Speaker Johnson felt forced today, that say, hey, look, I support fixing healthcare.

The problem with Speaker Johnson is that his problem with healthcare is he thinks that too many Americans have healthcare and that's what he's trying to fix. He's trying to shrink the number of Americans that have healthcare, while we are trying to fight for more and more to be able to afford their healthcare.

RAJU: So, I mean, they're clear. They want this straight extension of government funding. They said, this is the only bill. You guys are digging in on your position. So, the question that so many voters have is, how long is this going to go on for? Are you guys going to back off your position?

KIM: Well, look, what the, you know, when I went and talked with some people in New Jersey about what they want. They want adults in the room. That's what they said. They want adults in the room that are going to show up, first of all, do their job, which we're not seeing from the House Republicans. And they want us to go and understand we're not going to get 100 percent of what we want to go in.

[12:20:00]

You know, look, we're asking for something very specific here. It's not the totality of what Democrats right now are wanting we get that we're trying to engage on what we think is gettable, something that is going to help millions of Americans. What have the Republicans given on?

You know, what are -- what have they compromised on? And they're asking for our vote. You know, so if they want to do it on their own, go be it. But if they need our votes, then they need to come to us with something that's going to help the American people.

RAJU: So, you're not going to back off here on your position.

KIM: Well, look, I want to stand strong here, because the American people, I mean, I talked with for --

RAJU: This could go on for weeks or this could go for more than a month. KIM: Look, I was a career civil servant in the federal government before. I worked through two shutdowns before. This is the last thing that I want. I didn't -- I showed up to work every day. The state department, the Pentagon without getting paid. I don't like that.

But what I tell you, as I hear federal workers talking about this, when they're getting threatened for mass layoffs, when we're seeing this lawlessness out there, when we're seeing Trump saying, he's going to gut Gateway project, Hudson tunnel project, funding to New York and New Jersey as a political retribution, nobody stands for. That's mafia tactics.

RAJU: I mean, you could get a hit really, really hard here. Is it worth -- is it worth seeing projects from New Jersey go away. Russ Vought has targeted New Jersey, his one of those states. Is it worth it?

KIM: Yeah. Look, America is getting hit right now. It's not just my state. You know, we are going through so much turmoil because we have such a vindictive president and an administration that is trying to push so hard to make our lives harder and to make it that we're struggling more and more.

So yes, I'm going to stand strong here. I want to fight back against this lawlessness and this action that we saw again. It's more like mafia tactics. People in New Jersey don't stand for that, and they're going to really show that during the governor's race election.

RAJU: I want to ask you about what Chuck Schumer has said in the past. He is, of course, your Democratic leader. This is back in 2019 during the government shutdown that did last 35 days, and he had this message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Shutting down government over a policy difference is self-defeating. It accomplishes nothing but pain and suffering for the country and the American people. That's a lesson we all must bear in mind when this next continuing resolution expires and that will make its success more likely. We can never hold American workers hostage again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: I mean, he says shutting down the government over a policy difference is self-defeating. That's what's happening right now. You guys have a policy difference with Republicans. Are you not -- what changed?

KIM: Well look, back then in 2019, do we have a president that was pushing rescissions left and right, overruling what congress is capturing into law, but we didn't see the actions fully. What we're seeing now. Did we see Black Hawk helicopters over American cities? Did we see the blatant lawlessness of circumventing Congress to be able to enact tariffs globally, declaring national emergencies left and right in ways that are clearly an abuse of power. And what we are seeing now is different. You know this. You worked on the Hill for a long time. This is not normal, and it's important that we stand up here and say, look, we need to actually govern. Governing isn't one branch of government, telling all the other branches of government what to do.

It's about coming together and actually talking to one another and coming up with agreement. And that is the furthest thing that I've ever seen this president try to do since he came into office. So, I want to govern. I want to sit down. I'm here in D.C. I'm here at the Capitol. I'm ready to talk today.

RAJU: And you have confidence in the way Schumer is dealing with this right now?

KIM: I have confidence in my colleagues standing up right now. We are the bulwark right now, standing up against this lawlessness that we're seeing. So, I'll just say, Speaker Johnson, show up to work, get your House colleagues back to D.C., back to the Capitol. Let's talk.

RAJU: OK. Well, we're going to have to leave it there. Senator Andy Kim, thank you so much for coming in and joining. I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your views.

KIM: Thanks for having me.

RAJU: All right, coming up. What's next for Gaza? And will it make or break? Ceasefire talks. They are set to begin in just a few hours. CNN is live in the Middle East with new details.

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[12:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RAJU: The cost of two years of war in Gaza, playing out in this haunting video. On the left, Gaza before the war, and on the right, its current state. Tonight, key ceasefire negotiations are underway almost two years to the day since the Hamas terrorist attack on Israel, killed more than 1200 people, into 251-hostage.

Ahead of the talks, President Trump issued a warning to both Israel and Hamas. Telling Israel to stop its bombing of Gaza immediately. And an exclusive text exchange with CNN's Jake Tapper. President Trump responded, quote, complete obliteration. When asked, what happens if Hamas insists on staying in power in Gaza.

CNN's Nic Robertson is in Egypt where these talks are taking place. So Nic, there are a lot of unanswered questions leading into this, including just how close are they to an actual deal.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It's not clear how close. There's a lot of expectation, a lot of hope, that this really is the moment that it's going to happen. But I think there's a couple of caveats that give the impression that this is going to take a little time.

Number one, President Trump has said that it could take several days. We've heard from the German foreign minister who is talking about that he hopes that the deal is done, that the hostages are released by sometime next week.