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Sen. Shelley Moore Capito (R-WV), Is Interviewed About Both Sides Dig In As Shutdown Enters 9th Day; Secy. Of State Rubio Speaks After Gaza Ceasefire Deal; Hearings Underway On Natl. Guard Deployments To Chicago, Portland. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired October 09, 2025 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:01]

LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, PUCK: It is absolutely a good day. What's also really amazing is watching the videos of people celebrating not only in Tel Aviv and Israel, but in Gaza too. The pure joy of the people who have been impacted by this war on both sides of this war is really incredible. You know, Phil, you put it out -- put -- said it really well on all the dynamics that led here and all of the obstacles that the president, the administration, the Arab countries, the Israelis had to deal with to get there.

And ultimately they realized that. An end is in sight and they actually a lot of credit to all of those people for actually taking the deal at hand too.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: Yes. All right, everybody, standby. We're going to continue to monitor this cabinet meeting going on right now and we'll bring you updates, of course.

We are also following breaking news as Texas National Guard Troops arrive at an ICE facility in Chicago while a federal judge hears the case fighting the legality of that deployment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:35:45]

BASH: We're now on day nine of the government shutdown with no end in sight. Zero evidence that compromises on the horizon. So how does this end if there's barely even negotiations at all? I think there are no negotiations.

Well, joining me now is GOP, Senator Shelley Moore Capito at West Virginia, the chair of the Senate Republican Policy Committee. Thank you so much for being here, Senator. You heard the President at his cabinet meeting, which is still ongoing, talking about the shutdown.

And in less than a week, soldiers, federal law enforcement, government workers, they're going to start to lose their paychecks. You're a member of the GOP leadership, why not at least start talks with Democrats to try at least to begin to find compromise for their sake? SEN. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO (R-WV): I think the simple thing here is to reopen the government. We've put forward six times now and will be seven, a very simple open the government, no strings attached just until the 21st of November. And then once the government's open, we could begin negotiating on healthcare or whatever appropriations bills we need to move forward.

To me, that's the simplest way and would've been October 1st to not worry about who's going to miss a paycheck. Certainly we are being, I think the other people are getting entangled into this, our troops and others that really threw no fault of their own. So why don't we, you know, our leader, Senator Thune has said, we will begin negotiations on these matters as soon as you reopen the government.

This isn't taking hostages. And so it's just a political exercise. I mean Chuck Schumer said that today, every day gets better for us. Who's us? The Democrat Party? That's not our troops, our border agents and those who depend on services from our country.

BASH: What the Democrats argue back to that argument, which is open the government, which, on its face certainly makes a whole lot of sense, is that they would love to open the government, but they don't trust Republicans to have negotiations or to agree to some of their demands. The most important they say, of which is to extend the subsidies for Obamacare, and your state has almost 70,000 Obamacare enrollees.

This is in West Virginia. Ninety-seven percent of those use these premium tax credits. They're going to expire at the end of the year. What do you say to those constituents?

CAPITO: Well, what I say to them is what I've been saying to the Democrats and many of us have, including Senator Thune, our leader, we will negotiate on this. The President has talked about wanting to find a solution. Dr. Oz has been with -- with me on our policy lunches to talk about trying to find solutions for this.

But we're not going to come in and blanket approve these things, which is what the Democrats want for numerous years because we know that there needs to be some reforms. They -- and that's -- that's the issue that they refuse to actually talk about and -- and consider. So I want to protect my West Virginia small business owners and beauticians and barbers and small mom and pop shops, this is incredibly important to me that they get healthcare.

But we know that this program has gone farfield from what was originally conceived, and so let's open the government and enter negotiations. Many republicans have said, we're open to negotiations on this. We got to open the government first. I don't think that's an unreasonable stand.

BASH: What another thing that Chuck Schumer, the Democratic leader has said is that, they tried to enter negotiations before we got to crunch time with members of the Republican leadership. I know you're the number two Republican on the all-important Senate Appropriations Committee and that Republicans blew -- blew them off. So I think shockingly we have a lot of people in Washington and in the halls where you are talking past each other sadly.

But just on -- on this law I wanted -- I just remind maybe you were referring to this remind you that there are some Republicans who are saying that they think this should be an active negotiation. Marjorie Taylor Greene broke with your party on the issue of enhanced healthcare subsidies. She sat down with my colleague, Pamela Brown and Wolf Blitzer, both of them. And here's what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[12:40:08]

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I'm actually put -- putting the blame on the Speaker and Leader Thune and the Senate. This -- this should not be happening. And I don't think, look, as a member of Congress, we already have a low enough job approval rating. The shutdown is just going to drive everybody's approval rating that much lower.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: But, so you're putting the blame on the leadership of your party.

GREENE: Absolutely. We control the House, we control the Senate. We have the White House. I - I've been vocal saying, you know, you can use a nuclear option in the Senate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So first, just on blaming her party leadership of which you are a part, your reaction?

CAPITO: Well, I'm going to be honest with you, that clip was going in and out. I think I know the essence of what she was saying. But, you know, everybody's entitled to their opinion here. This is a very simple fix. The House passed a simple fix, no strings attached to this at all to -- to open the government for seven weeks.

Chuck Schumer is on record, is saying every day gets better for us. Who's he talking about? He's talking about his political future and his political party. This isn't -- shouldn't be a party thing. I voted during the Biden administration consistently on this very same bill, as did they to open government.

And so I -- I understand the frustrations, but I think it's totally unfair to say that Republicans have not entered in negotiations and Republicans are not having conversations. Every day on the floor of the House, I've had a conversation with a Democrat talking about how are we going to get out of this and let's talk about the premium support in healthcare.

BASH: OK.

CAPITO: They create -- so, you know --

BASH: That's good to hear. CAPITO: -- I think it's just -- it's just gamesmanship here and political gamesmanship. But -- but the thing is, it's gamesmanship for their party because we are offering a simple solution of which three of their Democrat members agree with us.

BASH: Senator, I know you have to go vote just real quick.

CAPITO: Yes.

BASH: The -- when you heard her refer to the nuclear option, that is referring to the idea of Senate Republicans getting rid of the filibuster and just passing a bill to open the government. Are you for that?

CAPITO: I'm not going to -- I'm not going to do that. And I don't think there are the votes there to do that, to break the filibuster. Many of us signed a letter under President Trump's first administration saying we would not break the filibuster. Remember the Democrats did that too. And then you want to talk about lack of trust. Then they turned around and voted to break the filibuster. So I'm not going to vote to break the filibuster, and I don't believe the votes are there to do that.

It's -- it -- it sounds like an easy fix, but we're talking about setting generations of -- of policy and good policy and minority rights aside, and I'm not going to be a party to that.

BASH: Senator Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia, thank you so much for being here. Appreciate it.

CAPITO: Thanks for having me on. All right.

BASH: And the cabinet meeting is going on. Just moments ago, the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, spoke. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Go ahead.

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: Yes, Mr. President. I, you know, I don't know if the one day, perhaps the entire story will be told about the events of yesterday, but I suffice it to say it's not an exaggeration that none of it would've been possible without the President of the United States being involved.

It really began with your trip to the Middle East where these relationships were forged with partners in the region, personal relationships, close relationships that created the foundation where all this was possible. Where I think this really took a turn, remember a month ago, never thought this was possible, where it really took a turn about a month ago less than a couple weeks ago is when we were at the United Nations and you convened a historic meeting, not simply of Arab countries, but of Muslim majority countries from around the world, including Indonesia was there, Pakistan was there, and created this coalition behind this plan. You -- then, on that following Monday, you met with the Prime Minister of Israel here, and that plan was presented and then of course our great negotiating team followed up on it in the interim. Again, perhaps the stories will be told. Perhaps they will never be told. The President had some extraordinary phone calls and meetings.

TRUMP: That's true.

RUBIO: That required a high degree of intensity and commitment and made this happen. And I think what's important to understand is that yesterday what happened was really a human story. There's a geopolitical aspect to it. There's no doubt about it. It creates the conditions for Gaza to one day be a normal place again, and people to have a better life and Israelis to be safe. But yesterday was a human story.

And because of the work you put in. And honestly, there is no, not only is there no other leader in the world that could have put this together, Mr. President, but frankly, I don't know of any American president in the modern era that could have made this possible because of the actions you have taken unrelated to this and because of who you are and what you've done and how you're viewed.

[12:44:54]

And this weekend because of that, at some point very soon, we are going to see 20 living human beings emerge from the darkness into the light for the first time in two years. And that is because not only were you used the credibility and the power and the prestige of this office and the relationships you created and you committed yourself to making it happen, I think it will go down as a historic moment in the history of our country and something our country should be very proud of, that we have a president that's committed to the, not just peace but to the human aspect of reuniting these families.

My last point on this is just a couple days ago, Secretary Lutnick hosted us all, many of us, at the Kennedy Center. And we have these families, we've interacted with them for so many years for some -- for two years now. And the stories are heartbreaking, both whose families are alive and those who were deceased as well, who want their relatives back so that they can complete the process of grieving.

And it was -- we had all hoped that perhaps that was the day that we would have an announcement for them on the anniversary of the 7th, but I know you were able to speak to some of those families last night. And -- and I just hope the whole nation understands what -- how incredibly proud they should be of their president and of their country for the role that they played.

And I don't want to let this moment pass Mr. President with also noting the incredible work of Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner. They're an incredible team working together, facing some substantial impediments to even being there this weekend and doing it suffice, let me just leave it at that. And they've done a great job on -- on -- on your behalf, Mr. President, and they deserve a tremendous amount of credit. But thank you for what you've done for the world, for the world.

TRUMP: Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

BASH: All right. That was Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, where we heard him for the first time standing with the -- sitting with the President since he got a message to the President interrupting him yesterday in a very historic moment, telling him that they had closed in on the deal.

All right, everybody standby. We are following that breaking news in Chicago. A federal judge is listening to attorneys to determine if National Guard troops can legally be deployed in that city, in that state over the objections of the governor and the mayor. The details after a quick break.

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[12:51:45]

BASH: Right now, two critical hearings on President Trump's military deployments in two American cities are underway. It's a bit confusing, so stick with me here. First troops in Portland, Oregon, a three-judge panel is hearing the administration's appeal of a lower court ruling that blocked President Trump from sending National Guard troops to Portland to protect an ICE facility. So that's Portland.

Chicago, a lower court judge is right now hearing arguments on whether President Trump can send the National Guard there. And just this morning, hundreds of members of the Texas National Guard arrived at the ICE facility, that's been the center of protests in Chicago in recent weeks.

Chicago is where our colleague, CNN's Omar Jimenez is outside that ICE facility. Omar, what's happening with that hearing?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so right now we're no cameras in the courtroom, but we're monitoring updates from our producer inside, Bill Korkos (ph). And what the real meaning or -- or goal for this hearing was to try to get, I mean, the oral arguments between the state of Illinois and the City of Chicago versus the Trump administration over this deployment of National Guard.

And one of the questions we knew the judge wanted answered coming in is, what will the scope of this National Guard deployment actually look like? And Judge Perry here asked the DOJ if the location of the Guardsmen would just be limited to certain locations like this one, federal locations.

And the DOJ attorney said that it is possible that they could be in other neighborhoods, potentially around schools, if that means protecting federal agents or property. So that is at least a little bit of indication as to where they believe they could go. And then the other dynamic that seems to be happening in court right now is the -- is the judge is trying to parse through what has been said on social media by the President and other folks in the administration versus what legally are they fighting for here? And so one of the things that Judge Perry continued to ask the DOJ on in court is that is one saying that there's been a large disconnect between those two dynamics. But she asks, will they be solving crime in Chicago? Because I think the implication is that they would come in here and help lower violent crime.

And the DOJ attorney responded saying the mission again is a federal protective one. So that seems to be in court what the Department of Justice is arguing. Even if the rhetoric on social media is that deploying the guard here is to again, push into to gun violence or anything like that.

BASH: Yes. Really, really interesting. Omar, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Back here at the table and joining us is our legal analyst, Carrie Cordero. Let's just pick up where Omar left off because they're not arguing crime is bad, as you hear the President talk about all the time. What they're arguing it seems is the definition of rebellion and also the President's point that he makes that this is, these are war zones. Why is that important in these court hearings?

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: OK. So it's important because both in the Portland case and in this Chicago case, both states are challenging the administration's use of a particular provision of law that's under Title X, which is generally the section of law that governs military matters and enables a president to federalize the National Guard and use it in a federal capacity.

[12:55:10]

And the administration's theory of using that particular statute that they're invoking relies on a finding that there is either a quote, invasion or quote rebellion. And the way that I think that ties together is the administration's arguments that immigration is constituting and their enforcement against immigration and illegal immigration is constituting some sort of, "invasion." That's how I think they get to this particular provision of law that they're trying to invoke.

So as Omar's reporting on the judge's question about whether or not the judge is thinking about perhaps tailoring this to only be about protecting, for example, ICE facilities or other federal facilities, that might be a more narrow interpretation that this judge could apply as opposed to authorizing the federalization for broad law enforcement purposes, which another provision of law, the Posse Comitatus Act prohibits.

BASH: Right. And that is pretty much, I mean, lawyers across the political spectrum have said that on that the law is pretty clear.

CORDERO: The law is clear.

BASH: If the governor doesn't invite the federal troops in they can't go. CORDERO: Right. If the President is federalizing the National Guard, which in this case, in these cases he is, then that actually prevents, as a matter of law, the National Guard from engaging in law enforcement.

BASH: And Phil, we hear from the President a lot about, you know, it's a Biden judge. It's a Democrat judge. Well, the -- just on the Portland aspect of this, the three judge panel, the Court of Appeals, the Ninth Circuit, you have one Clinton appointee and two Trump appointees. In Chicago, you do have a Biden appointee in the district.

But just back to Portland, the original or the Saturday decision by a district judge about Portland, Judge Karin Immergut is the following, and keep in mind as I read this, she is a Trump appointee, OK? The President is certainly entitled a great level of deference in his determination, and he is unable with regular force -- that he is unable with regular forces to execute the laws of the United States. But A great level of deference is not equivalent to ignoring the facts on the ground.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: I think it's a good window into, there is a shorthand which in many cases has proven worthy. This judge was nominated by X. That means that Y is going to be the immediate response of things. In some of these cases, particularly as they deal with executive authority, the assumption that because this appointee is a Biden appointee or a Clinton appointee or a Bush appointee, or a Trump appointee is automatically going to lend themselves to an opinion that tracks down a very specific line, I think misses the reality of the lack of precedent to some of the things that are being pursued right now.

And I think what was so interesting about that opinion specifically was you've had Democrats and Republicans who've read through it and said. Yes, it's pretty comprehensive fulsome and -- and makes a lot of sense and has a really good chance of surviving any circuit court efforts or further appeals to overturn it.

How this actually goes moving forward though, I think if anything that we've seen over the course of the last 10 months is in areas where this administration and the Justice Department have made arguments related to executive authority. At some point they end up either winning or getting district court rulings in injunctions put on hold for a period of time until the Supreme Court has time to -- to rule it. And I don't know if that's how this is going to end up, but certainly that's been a predictable path in the past.

CALDWELL: So I'm not a lawyer, I'm not going to talk about the legal components yet, but or here, but from the political standpoint, you know, I spent yesterday and the day before talking to Republicans about what they think about this, about Trump floating the Insurrection Act, about how far the president is going in some of these, you know, the point of my story was Steven Miller, who's kind of the architect of a lot of this.

But generally speaking, a lot of Republicans I spoke to privately on background tell me that they're worried that some of this is going too far. They worried about the legal implications, but they also more so worry about the politics of it. These are untested policies and there's a midterm where they're going to be on the ballot.

Ultimately, white House sources tell me that yes, that has been debated inside the White House, but they have, they think that the ultimate decider on this is not polling, but what voters say in November.

JASMINE WRIGHT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, NOTUS: Yes. And I think to the politics of it there is risks, right, that if the National Guard is allowed to deploy in cities like Chicago or Portland, that people could view what they're doing on the ground, even though they're not actually allowed to do these localized crime deterrent things as an overreach, right?

[13:00:10]

And that is a political risk for the White House. But they say that they are going to continue these efforts across America because they believe that they legally have the leg to stand on, and that people want to see their communities with less crime. And so that is where they're making their argument.

BASH: We're going to have to leave it there. I'm sorry Carrie. Thank you all for a rock and roll show. Thank you for joining Inside Politics. CNN News Central starts right now.