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Sources: DOJ To Ask Grand Jury To Indict John Bolton Today; WSJ: Admin. Plans IRS Overhaul To Pursue Left-Wing Groups; Now: Trump, Putin Speaking On The Phone Ahead Of White House Meeting With Zelenskyy Tomorrow; Fed Judge Demands Answer From Trump On Following Order To Avoid Violence With Chicago Protesters. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired October 16, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: The two have a combined 39 seasons of NFL experience. More than 102,000 yards passing, a super bowl ring each, and it's an incredible nod to human potential. I retired like 15 years ago and I played against both of these guys in my final year. So, just incredible stuff, what they're out there, still doing.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR, THE SITUATION ROOM: I love that. Over 40, still going strong. Gives us -- gives us hope.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN CO-ANCHOR, THE SITUATION ROOM: Some of us believe 40 years old, not that old.

BROWN: Well, I'll take it. I'll take it as a 41-year-old. All right, Coy, thank you so much, and thank you all for joining us this morning. We'll see you back here tomorrow morning at 10 am eastern. Inside Politics with our friend and colleague, Dana Bash, starts right now.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Welcome to Inside Politics. I'm Dana Bash in Washington, and we're following breaking news on two major fronts. Right now, President Trump says, he is on the phone with Russian President Vladimir Putin, holding what President Trump calls a quote, lengthy conversation.

The U.S. president told the world he was prepared to give Vladimir Putin an ultimatum, hold serious peace talks, or the U.S. will give Ukraine Tomahawk long range missiles with the capability to attack Moscow.

There is also crucial domestic news. Multiple sources are telling CNN the Justice Department will ask a federal grand jury today to indict President Trump's former national security advisor John Bolton. This would be the third indictment of the president's self-described political enemies in just three weeks.

I'm joined here at the table with a terrific group of reporters, including Katelyn Polantz, who is bringing us this reporting. Katelyn, what do we know?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Dana, we know now from various sources that the grand jury in Maryland in federal court is expected to be hearing evidence about John Bolton. This afternoon, the Justice Department is expected to go in there and ask for an indictment of the former national security advisor to Donald Trump, and somebody who is not just well known from the Trump era, but a long-time government official.

This is a case where it's been in the works for years. It's been worked on because Bolton at one point was discovered, having an AOL email account, according to the sources I've talked to, where he was writing notes to himself about his time in the Trump White House, and that could include classified documents.

We also know from a recent search just two months ago that there were many documents, including ones labeled as about weapons of mass destruction, about allied strikes, things that had markings on them that said classified secret. There were phones, computers, drives all of that seized from his house.

His lawyer has said, this could all be very old material from the George W. Bush administration, and nothing inappropriate was being kept by Bolton. But there is still a important possibility here that this is a very serious national security case. And that the Justice Department does continue wanting to enforce cases like these. It might not be all of a political decision.

BASH: So, Katelyn, and that's really important. It's something that you emphasized yesterday when you brought us your new great reporting then, which is we have been talking about the president's enemies list, people who he has been discussing, who he wants prosecutor to -- prosecutor, two of whom were people who went after him through the legal system, James Comey and also Letitia James.

John Bolton is dip, by the way, what you're seeing on the screen. Those are just the two indicted, the two people I talked about. The others are invest -- under investigation or are people who the president has publicly called for investigations of.

But just staying on the John Bolton situation, which is, according to your reporting, really imminent. It is -- it does seem to be quite different than the others. It's similar in that Bolton has been very critical of the president, and the president doesn't like him. But the substance of this case.

POLANTZ: That's right. And one thing too to watch for is how the Justice Department comports themselves, including in the court. The thing that we saw with the Comey case, with the Letitia James case, there was internal dissension. There were prosecutors fired, resigning, walking out. There was somebody who sent Lindsey Halligan to be the U.S. attorney, to brought those cases through by herself. Super unusual as far as situations go.

And clearly, something the president wants politically. This is out of the District of Maryland, which, you know, it's just - it's not far from the Eastern District of Virginia, but the US attorney there is someone who has been a career prosecutor for a very long time--

BASH: Who is the one bringing this case? POLANTZ: Theoretically, I mean, we'll have to see exactly who ends up being on the documents. But this would be under the administration of the District of Maryland's U.S. attorney, who's been confirmed in that -- into that position, not by the Senate, but by judges. Her name is Kelly Hayes.

And then on top of that, the District of Maryland is one of those offices that has this really intense culture of wanting to buck the politics of the country, mainly because the person who indicted Spiro Agnew when he was the vice president. That was the, the U.S. attorney in the District of Maryland, and that tradition is so strong there. You can't talk to Marylanders who've come from that office without hearing about George Beall, that prosecutor. You remember that

[12:05:00]

BASH: You remember that Spiro Agnew case?

HANS NICHOLS, POLITICAL REPORTER, AXIOS: Yeah. I'm going to yield all my time because the Spiro Agnew referenced this early, I just -- I'm not qualified to be this panel. So, please keep going. I'm here for it.

BASH: All right. So, let's talk about something you are qualified to discuss, which is what the president said in the Oval Office yesterday about other people he is not happy with who is -- he has publicly said, the DOJ should go after. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Deranged Jack Smith, in my opinion is a criminal. And I noticed that his interviewer was, I think that was Weissman and I hope they're going to look into Weisman too. Weisman is a bad guy, and he had somebody in Lisa, who was his puppet, worked in the office, really as the top person.

And I think that she should be looked at very strongly. I hope they're looking at shifty Schiff. I hope they're looking at all these people. And I'm allowed to find out. I'm allowed, you know, I'm -- in theory, the chief law enforcement officer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NICHOLS: So, this is the Trump theory of the case is. What he's saying and doing is maybe different, maybe breaking norms, but not illegal. And that is the path that they want to stay on. The broader challenge getting to sort of the comportment question is that when the president United States makes these announcements under -- that appear to be under political guise, going after people that have attacked him or that he doesn't particularly care for.

And then when the indictments, if they do come, and they are through the normal process, there's always a question on it. Now, you've obviously done a great job explaining the case with John Bolton in Maryland. And how this one, it seems as though that a lot of the career prosecutors are bringing this. But there's always this question about it and I don't know a way around that.

POLANTZ: But also note, Trump is not saying Bolton. Every time he mentions his list, even that recent social media post, Pam, seek justice against these people.

BASH: He wasn't in there.

POLANTZ: Bolton wasn't in there. Comey shift James.

BASH: I don't want this to kind of just hang in the ether. I do want to go back to the last part of the president's statement. In theory, I'm the chief law enforcement officer. No, he's not.

SEUNG MIN KIM, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, AP & CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: He's not.

BASH: As you were saying, Hans, there's no law or statute that says he's not. But in terms of the norms of what we have seen like, certainly since Nixon and even before Nixon, it's not supposed to be that way.

KIM: Right. I mean, he's not the chief law enforcement officer, but he's right in that. In theory, he has effectively become that because there is little to no resistance from his top law enforcement officials, including Attorney General Pam Bondi and FBI Director Kash Patel, who were both in the room with him, when he said those words yesterday.

And obviously, no visible pushback, no sort of acknowledgement that what -- that they were uncomfortable with what he was saying. And so -- and that's kind of the whole story. When it comes to this of the second administration, he makes it clear, very clearly, whether it's through accidental DMS, through social media platforms, or through public comments like this, that he wants his law enforcement officials to go after certain people. And the only complaints he has about what his officials have done on that phase is that they're not going fast enough.

BASH: I do want to just bring up one other issue that I'm sure is going to get a lot of attention, where you spend most of your time, which is on Capitol Hill. Wall Street Journal headline about the president's team planning to use the IRS overhaul the IRS to help them pursue left leaning groups.

I mean, I don't know if you were covering the Hill when all of those IRS hearings were happening, when conservatives were going crazy because they allege that the IRS was being used to go after conservative groups. It's hard to imagine that there is something as contradictory as this. If they go through with it.

MARIANNA SOTOMAYOR, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: You're absolutely right. But here's the thing, there is a MAGA branch of Republicans now who say, well, it's retribution. It's payback. There is some of that sentiment on Capitol Hill that, why shouldn't they go after these left leaning groups? Of course, this is something that Democrats are legitimately afraid of, because where is that going to stop? There are many lawmakers who are cautiously watching this. But like you said, it's pretty hypocritical. And we're -- I don't expect because there's been so many examples where Republicans on Capitol have not spoken up against this administration that they will in this case too.

BASH: All right, everybody standby, because we do have breaking news out of the White House. As we speak, President Trump, at least, he says, he is on the phone with the Russian President Vladimir Putin. What do we know about that call and why the timing is so significant? We'll explain after a quick break.

[12:10:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: And we're back with the breaking news out of the White House. President Trump says he is talking to Russian President Vladimir Putin right now. We know this because he posted it on Truth Social. He said the conversation is ongoing, a lengthy one, and I will report the contents and its conclusion. Now, the conversation comes one day before President Trump's Oval Office sit down with Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

[12:15:00]

Alayna Treene is live at the White House. Alayna, these phone calls tend to go on for a very long time. What are you learning so far?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right. And even longer when you consider the fact that they have translators. So, it often takes even longer when there's a phone call between the U.S. president and the Russian president. But look, I don't think it's any surprise that they are on the phone just a day before Zelenskyy is slated to meet with the president at the White House.

Normally, this is typical. He tries to get a sense of, you know, what Putin wants before Zelenskyy comes. He had similar calls with Zelenskyy around that Alaska summit with Putin. But the reason that today is so important is because one, of course, we know this call comes as the president has grown increasingly frustrated with Putin.

It's actually made him embrace Ukraine in a way we haven't seen in recent weeks and months. But also because of what we've heard the president say publicly, and what we know he is considering behind closed doors, which is that he is considering potentially providing Ukraine with long range missiles, what they call Tomahawk missiles.

Now this is something that we also know Putin is very much warning against because, something with Tomahawks. This is something that the United States has not provided to Ukraine yet throughout this entire war, is that it would let them reach deep in to Russia. But the other part of it is that the way that they are operated, it would require, likely, some Americans, or at least contractors to help operate this. This is something, we've heard the Russian president acknowledge, and he has said that if the president were to move forward with this, it would be a major escalation in this war, unlike we've seen before, given the level of American involvement that would likely be needed. And so that's likely going to be a major topic of this discussion today.

I can tell you, Dana, from my conversations with people at the White House on this, they have said that the president said this publicly. Many of them think it might have just been a threat, but we'll see what actually happens. The president said that he's expected to share some of the details of the call once this wraps.

All right, thanks, Alayna. Raise your hand if that happens anytime soon. Appreciate it. And Seung Min, I just was watching when Alayna was talking and we were rolling that video, the now infamous red carpet video of President Trump and President Putin, and the date on it was August 15. That's two months ago yesterday. That's a long time, considering the fact that he thought he suddenly had momentum after that meeting to have a deal. And here we are.

KIM: And yeah. And he kept saying, two weeks, two weeks, or gave some sort of a timeframe here. But that's why what he says after this meeting is going to be so important, because we know his posture going into not only this phone call, but to the meeting with President Zelenskyy tomorrow at the White House. It is that of frustration towards Moscow, that the war and that the violence is not letting up, and that there seemed to be no real progress towards peace talks, a peace agreement between Russia and Ukraine.

And while we all hear the president's public frustration with Putin and with Russia's actions, I actually have some reporting behind the scenes of other ways that the White House is showing more interest in punishing Moscow. We all know. We all know about the Graham and Blumenthal sanctions legislation.

In the Senate that has 85 co-sponsors. We've been talking about it for months. Lindsey Graham has kept saying over and over, it'll get a vote, you know, get a vote soon. But the White House had -- really hasn't been interested in that until very recently.

Until the last few weeks, they've been asking for technical changes. They've been offering line edits. They're going through the legislation basically line by line. It's being seen on Capitol Hill as a sign that they're really getting serious about doing some sort of punishment towards Russia.

BASH: And Hans, I do want to play what the president said yesterday about where he thinks things stand in this overall quest to get a deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think that Putin -- President Putin, I think, is going to -- I think he wants to get it done. We'll see. There's a great animosity between him and Zelenskyy. You probably have noticed, and it's -- I think it's hurting the process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: You can almost feel that he's on a well-deserved sugar high about, you know, what he has done in the Middle East, and he's like, I'm not going to take my foot off the gas. This has been quite difficult, understandably so.

NICHOLS: Yeah. But the president is nothing and not confident in his own abilities to kind of broker these deals. Here the stakes are substantially higher. This is -- I would just remind you. I don't want to scare anyone, but this is a nuclear armed country that the president is sort of openly threatened with, sending Tomahawks to an adversary of theirs. That's not a small--

BASH: And as you're talking, I just want to put up for our viewers to see graphic of what we mean when we talk about the Tomahawks. So, you see that red line. That's sort of the radius that the Tomahawks can go, if it's launched from Kyiv, so it's well into Russia. Continue?

NICHOLS: No, that just shows you the scope on how serious because this will give the Ukrainians, with as the U.S. help, the ability to project power much further and project violence much further into Russian territory. And that's always been the question with Putin is, when will he break? When will we answer, to these, sort of threats or this increased pressure?

[12:20:00]

I mean on the economic front, right? I mean, this is both sides. We're talking about an economic sanctions, especially with the House and Senate backing it. Thune made some comments here recently, saying that he's for, which is very clear on the projection of power. This is going up the escalation ladder.

Now, Trump apparently has a lot of confidence. He's saying, I have this conversation, we'll get a readout. But you know, this feels like shuttle diplomacy with only one partner really close by, and Trump is trying to broker the deal, but, you know, give him -- let's give him credit. He's had some success, and he feels confident.

BASH: All right. We're going to sneak in a quick break. Up next. A federal judge -- judge says, she thinks the Trump administration may be ignoring her order on what ICE agents can and cannot do in Chicago. We have new video that shows, she may be right.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: A federal judge in Illinois scrambled to convene a last-minute hearing this morning to say, she is quote, startled. By videos she is seeing of ISIS tactics on the streets of Chicago. Now, she says, she has, quote, serious concerns that the federal law enforcement agents she is seeing are not following her orders in the Windy City. Her statement comes as CNN obtains new video that shows hackling and pinning a 19-year-old outside of a Walgreens store in Chicago.

(PLAYING VIDEO)

BASH: Just want to emphasize, she was saying, he's a citizen, that's what she was screaming. And the incident started when agents crashed their vehicle in to an SUV. The people inside that car fled on foot. Agents chased them into a Walgreens. Witnesses tell CNN, they went into the Walgreens to record what was happening, but they were forced to leave and confronted the agent, pinning the 19-year-old to the ground outside the store.

CNN's Whitney Wild is in Chicago. Whitney, that video in recent days in Chicago. And we don't know particular video, but she did references images and videos that she's been watching.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: And there are a lot of them. The reality here is that whenever there are these confrontations between the public and federal there is a lot of video captured by people on the ground. This has been a huge story in Chicago media outlets, everyone, you know, every one of the broadcast networks, all of the newspapers, all of the blogs here are covering this story very, very carefully, Dana.

And so, what this judge said was, after she had seen these news reports, she wanted, you know, to bring everybody back into court to explain themselves. Let me just give you a little bit of context for the court case. So, over the last several weeks, we've seen these flare ups between protesters, you know, members of the press who are covering the protests, and federal agents at the broad view ICE facility, that's about 30 miles west of Chicago -- 30 minutes west of Chicago.

And you know, it was there that we were starting to see federal agents using chemical munitions against peaceful protesters, against members of the press. This really blew up when a WBBM, that's the CBS affiliate here, a WBBM reporter, says that she was pepper ball by federal agents in her vehicle. And she'd get out she couldn't burr her.

After that happened, the union that represents journalists went to federal court to ask a judge to put more controls on how federal agents are using force on the ground. Last week, a judge issued a temporary restraining order, basically saying that federal agents are not to use chemical munitions against peaceful protesters, against members of the press, they needed to be much more cautious about their use of force.

Then Tuesday happened. That is when that crash you referenced happened. The public saw that. It all played out on a city street in broad daylight. And when the public learned what happened, you know, through witnesses, through basically word of mouth and from social media videos, a crowd gathered, and that's what you're looking at right here. As you see, the Chicago Police Department went to that scene to try to help with crowd control. As federal agents were leaving, they detonated again at these chemical munitions, exposing the public, exposing either reporters who were on the ground, but also members of the Chicago Police Department who did not know they were about to be tear gassed.

So, 13 of those officers were exposed. The judge referenced those incidents in aggregate, and so she brought everybody back into court today to explain themselves and reiterated the importance of following her temporary restraining order and put more conditions on it. Dana, adding that she wants every one of these federal agents who is working on this operation Midway Blitz to wear a body camera. She says it must be recording.

And then again, I think the most important moment from the hearing was when she said this. I'm a little startled, frankly, that since Thursday, when I entered that temporary restraining order last week, I'm getting images and seeing images on the news, in the paper, reading reports where, at least from what I'm seeing, I'm having serious concerns that my order is being followed.

And then later she said, I'm really not happy. Again, she put more conditions on her temporary restraining order, and then she says she wants to see the ICE field director in court on Monday to explain himself, Dana.

[12:30:00]