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North Carolina GOP Set To Approve New Congressional Map Today; Re-Drawn Maps, Not Issues, Cold Decide Who Wins House In 2026; No End In Sight As Government Shutdown Enters Day 21; Trump Hosts GOP Senators At Rose Garden Club As Shutdown Drags On. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired October 21, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Today on Inside Politics, stacking the deck. A new move by Republicans to give the president exactly what he asked for. New congressional maps that could put the GOP on a glide path to keeping the House majority. Well break down the executive pressure campaign that's leading to major changes in North Carolina today.

Plus, on a razor's edge. We have brand new reporting on the Trump administration's deep concerns over the Israel, Hamas ceasefire. Vice President Vance is on the ground right now with key American negotiators. And taking a wrecking ball to the White House. The developer in chief is taking his disrupter status literally as he bulldozes his way to a 200 million ballroom of his dreams.

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

First up, it is a Tar Heel turf war. Today, North Carolina Republicans are poised to approve a new gerrymandered map that will effectively flip one congressional seat from blue to red. Now, just moments ago, the GOP controlled state Senate approved this. The GOP controlled state House will take it up this afternoon.

And the Democratic governor does not have the power to block it. Now, this will be the third Republican dominated state to change its maps under pressure from President Trump, who wants to give his party every possible advantage ahead of the midterm elections next year. We all know it started in Texas, then it went to Missouri, and now what's happening today is again in North Carolina.

Red states across the country are clamoring to go next. Now Democrats are looking to even score in states like -- to even the score, I should say, in states like California and Maryland, but they are at a decided disadvantage. And this redistricting war could ultimately determine who wins control of the House next year.

I'm joined by a terrific group of reporters. And Fredricka, it's nice to have you here. I do want to start with you. You've been doing some excellent reporting on the gerrymandering that's happening right now, and specifically about North Carolina.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: Yeah. North Carolina is happening with amazing speed. They started talking about a map last week. They discussed it publicly yesterday at a Senate hearing.

BASH: Fredricka, hold please, because we're having a little problem with your audio, it's live TV. Don't go anywhere. And as we fix that, I do just want to continue to set the table with what's happening in North Carolina right now. And hopefully, we can put up the maps to kind of explain to our viewers what we're talking about.

We're talking about one seat. OK, so there is the congressional map as it stands right now. The delegation in the House is made up of four Democrats and 10 Republicans. You see that big swath of blue in the upper right of your screen. That is the democratic seat that we're talking about right now.

So, now go to a map that you're going to look at that shows what the Republicans are hoping to do. I believe we have that map. There you go. So, in the upper left -- excuse me, in the left of your corner, the upper right of that map, you see it's kind of a light red, and the reason is because that was pretty close when it came to the 2024 presidential race.

On the right, that is the proposed district that Republicans are hoping will happen -- they're hoping that district will be read once they're done with the redistricting and gerrymandering that is happening as we speak in North Carolina. It's only one seat, Jeff Zeleny, but they're trying to squeeze every seat onto their side of the ledger even before voters go to the polls.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, in one seat certainly matters when you looked at the broader map of the country there, beginning in Texas, as you said, and then Missouri and in other states across the country. North Carolina is a particularly interesting case because it is a swing state. Democrats often win the governor's office there, but very seldom win other statewide offices.

But in this particular moment, North Carolina is going to be fascinating to watch. To Fredricka's point, it played out with dramatic speed. There's a Democratic governor who cannot stop it because of the size of the majorities in the legislature, but we do not know the fallout from this long term, but short term, it gives Republicans one more seat, like you said.

And when you add that up, state by state by state, that helps Republicans ensure their House majority. It doesn't guarantee it necessarily, because in some Democratic led states, they are talking about changing the rules, gerrymandering as well. And you wonder why this is a big deal. It is a big deal because it is 2025 right now. We are five years ahead of where there should have been a census and a redrawing of the lines. This does not happen in the middle of a decade.

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It is happening because President Trump and his advisors are trying to seek advantages and change the rules. And when you look at other states, like Ohio, which actually has to change its districts because of a court ordered ruling, they're still operating under the last ones, which is complicated, but I cannot think of all the midterm races we've covered. This is the biggest deal in the middle of a decade that a president has engineered.

BASH: And because you talked about the big picture, which I do want to get to. Let's -- we're showing our viewers right now. The red in Texas that's done. They've already taken and changed the map to take a number of Republican districts. It's unclear if that's actually going to happen because of litigation before the 2026 election.

And we look at Missouri, they've already -- there's a referendum that's underway to perhaps change it back, but they've already changed that. And then the states that are in play are the ones that are light red. California, as I mentioned, and Maryland, those are the only two blue states right now that are trying to sort of play the Republican game and try to take back some of the seats on a national level. I think we have your mic now, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: I mean, it really is striking. And one of the things that, you know, in North Carolina as we discussed, it's the speed with which it happened--

BASH: Fredricka, I'm sorry. We will get this fixed. Again, this is what happens sometimes with live TV. Tia, I know that you were -- wanting to get in because you cover Congress, and I'm wondering what you're hearing from your sources about all this.

TIA MITCHELL, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE ATLANTA JOURNAL- CONSTITUTION: So, you know, there are states that are like Georgia is a swing state, Republicans have big majorities, but Georgia right now is not talking about changing its map, but I know we're going to talk about it separately. Some of the changes to the Voting Rights Act could have an impact on some of those democratic districts in Georgia.

But I think what Jeff brought up is really, really interesting. It's the short-term versus the long-term. We know that a lot of these efforts will help President Trump in the short-term, or at least that's the goal is to help President Trump in the short-term keep a Republican majority, particularly in the U.S. House, where right now, they have a very slim majority.

And given the trends that usually happen in the midterms, it was very likely that had all this redistricting not happened, Democrats were in a good position to retake control of the House. Well, now all of that's up in the air, and that benefits President Trump. But what we can't know, because all of this is so unprecedented, is what are going to be the long-term implications?

What is going to be the risk to Republican incumbents? What is going to be the risk to just voter -- just voter's confidence, voter apathy, voter disenfranchisement, particularly in states where we're now seeing that black voting power is being diluted, again, even without any Supreme Court determinations on the Voting Rights Act.

BASH: Let's go back to where we started, which is the big news that's happening as we speak, which is North Carolina. You have again, the state Senate just passed this, the House is expected to do so later this afternoon. Let's listen to a little of the arguments that we heard on the floor of the North Carolina state House this week.

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SEN. RALPH HISE, MEMBER OF THE NORTH CAROLINA STATE SENATE: If Democrats flip four seats in the upcoming midterm elections, they will take control of the House and torpedo President Trump's agenda. President Trump has called on Republican controlled states across the country to fight fire with fire. This map answers that call.

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SHAWN MCCREESH, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: I think the whole thing is sort of breathtaking, coming from a president who has been whining about rigged elections for the last 10 years. But I do think it's interesting that not every Republican is down with this. Reporters have heard from state officials in places like Indiana, from Republicans who are a little uncomfortable with it.

And what I find interesting is that these sort of state level Republicans have been met with almost, sort of a thuggish response from the White House political operation. I think the whole thing underscores that Trump is sort of a brilliant, ruthless party boss, and he'll do whatever it takes to win time and again. And you know, the fact that he would even try to get people to go along with this speaks to just the level of almost total fealty, he commands from the party.

BASH: Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's no question about it. And if we put up that that map again, just the state of play more broadly. We should note that in like two weeks, California, the people there are going to vote, and that could be very, very interesting to determine how much of an inroad the Republicans can make, if you look at the big picture now.

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And I think this is something you were alluding to, Jeff, even if the Republicans gobble up as many seats as they can ahead of the 2026 election. The Democrats are banking on history still being on their side, which is that a president generally loses pretty big, not always. There are certainly some glaring exceptions, but the president generally loses pretty big in the House in the first midterm of the first term or of their term. This is the second term.

ZELENY: Right. Because it's a referendum on the president's policies, a referendum on his administration, certainly, if passed, is pro-log here with a 2018 for example. That's when Democrats of blue wave retook the House in the first year of the administration. This is one of the many things that President Trump knows how the office works. This time, he's flexed his executive authority, his political muscle, in ways that we didn't see the first term.

But in California, for example, that is a test without a doubt. Gavin Newsom, of course, the governor is leading the charge to have the citizens of California, basically temporarily change the rules, to redraw the map as a response to Texas. Most of the political operatives in both parties I'm speaking with believe that that will pass, but that is not a certainty. But if it does, it gives Democrats a little bit of mathematical help. But that is one of the reasons that we're seeing North Carolina, Missouri, Indiana, other places to kind of offset that.

So again, it's an extraordinary redrawing of the map. And the bottom line, it makes the maps and gerrymandering even worse, and that is one of the core issues that drives the partisanship in this country.

BASH: OK, let's try it one more time. Third time's a charm.

WHITFIELD: Yeah. We will see how it works. I mean, in Texas, for instance, as you noted, there is some resistance from lawmakers who are sitting right now to redrawing the maps. By doing it in mid- decade, you don't know what the pattern is. In Texas, remember, Trump was on the map, and he did better. They're counting on that happening in a midterm election in which he is not on the ballot, so we'll see what happens. It is -- it is not risk free for Republicans.

BASH: It was worth the wait. That was such an important point, and you've been doing such tremendous reporting on this. It's not over. We'll be covering this a lot. Please come back with a fresh microphone. Thanks. Don't go anywhere.

Up next. Congress is barreling toward setting a record, a record nobody wants, the longest government shutdown. So, who has the power to end it? Well, you're looking at a picture of the building where that man lives. Stay with us.

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BASH: As we speak at the White House, you see there, Republican senators are eating lunch with President Trump in the Rose Garden, or what was the Rose Garden? You see Senator Lindsey Graham, at least you saw him moments ago. Now this is happening on day 21 of the shutdown that's tied. It's the second longest shutdown in history, only the second to President Trump's first term. That was a 35-day shutdown.

The Democrats are increasingly pointing to the president as the one person who can move the needle, amid failed votes and a stalemate in debate and also behind the scenes negotiations. In fact, Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said, he's willing to pick up the phone and call the president, but everything is hindering -- hinging on what he calls the right moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): I believe that the America -- that the American people, as days go on and we get closer and closer to October 31, we'll make it so clear that they want this, that Trump, there's a -- I think there's a good, strong likelihood that Trump goes to Johnson and said, let's solve this problem. I think he will, as at the right moment, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, you're waiting for the right moment to have that conversation?

SCHUMER: Well, yes. I think we have to -- we have to have the right moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: And my panel is back. You know, there's spin, and then there is spin that has a lot of truth in the underlying facts. This is both, and it is true that every single person I talk to on Capitol Hill, no matter what party they're in, will say that there is one human being in Washington and probably in the world, who can fix this, and that is the president of the United States. Mostly because in order to get this open, he has to give Mike Johnson the speaker cover.

And even that could be politically dicey for the House speaker, but only Donald Trump can do that. The other thing that he said in that sound by Chuck Schumer was October 31, because what is November 1? November 1 is a key day for these health insurance premiums. Insurance companies are going to start to set their goals and get information out to their clients and their customers. That's still what 10 days away. I mean, let's hope that doesn't last that long.

ZELENY: For sure. I mean, it's the day after Halloween, that's when open enrollment starts for most companies' insurance plans. So that is kind of one of the indicators. But you're right about the one man, and yes, it's to give speaker Johnson cover about -- I mean, President Trump is first and foremost, as we've seen with previous speakers, most concerned with President Trump.

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And he is someone who is very mindful of the political sort of weight that the whole healthcare debate can have. I mean, he sort of learned those lessons in the first administration, trying to repeal and replace Obamacare, which failed, obviously, but now this is taking something away from him. So, the Republicans I speak to say they wouldn't be surprised if Trump would suddenly make a deal to move on with this.

But as of now, the pressure points that normally sort of drive a shutdown to a conclusion aren't there because they are paying the military. They're paying some federal law enforcement officers. People they're not paying our air traffic controllers, that is still one of the things that is nothing can really get the nation's attention and drive things to a halt, like a closed airport, airport and delays and things.

So, look for things to happen on that front. But there's not an infinite amount of money to keep, like funding the troops payment and money to a food assistance and things with the existing money. So that is also coming up to sort of an end here. But as of now, the president is not paying attention to it. He's trying to not draw attention to the shutdown. When that changes, the shutdown may near the end (ph). BASH: And let's look at some of the headlines of the pressure points. From Axios, the interior department plans to cut more than 2000 jobs. From USA Today, this is something that we're all keeping our eye on flight delays, hitting major U.S. airports because of FAA staffing woes. And then from CNN, millions of Americans are at risk of losing food stamps next month because of the shutdown.

MITCHELL: Yeah. And I do find it interesting that so far, President Trump has not really engaged actively, and quite frankly, the House, the Senate, the leadership, they're not really talking right now. It's like we're in a shutdown. And, you know, the House is not even in session doing other things. It's very much at a standstill.

But because they found ways in large part to make it as less painful, we'll say. I think there also isn't the public pressure from voters that we've seen in last shutdowns, where the shutdown itself was really, really unpopular. People thought, you know, this is dumb. Why are you doing this there?

You know, we know there are a lot of constituents, and not just Democrats. I know that we've heard from Speaker Jonathan, say it's the far-left bullying Chuck Schumer into the shutdown. We know that's not really the case. It's way more populous. It's way more universal. It crosses party lines in that there are voters saying, shut it down because we want you to address the health care issues.

BASH: OK. So, I'm glad you brought that up, because let's look at that. This is the one thing, and you alluded to this, Jeff, this is one of the things that President Trump is very focused on. We are told, which is what the Democrats have made now their top talking point, and their top pressure point on this shutdown, which is the premiums that for Obamacare, that the government helps people who are in need with.

And if you look at the map which you have up there, you can see that this is a big, big deal for a lot of people in Trump one states, his own constituents, many of them very much rely on these government subsidies for their healthcare.

MCCREESH: I feel like this is an issue Trump has never really been able to figure out, and it frequently dogs him, even in his first term. But for now, it looks like the White House is looking at the polling. They don't feel that the public is blaming them for the shutdown. They can keep it going. 10 days is sort of an eternity. Who knows if he'll change his mind. But in terms of what we're seeing today, I think the Rose Garden lunch that he's holding as we speak is really interesting case study of again, Trump the party boss.

When he wants to keep his troops in line, he can be such an interesting mix of vinegar and honey. And you know, he can either strike them down with thunderbolts on Twitter, or he can invite them into the members only club that he's built in the backyard of the White House. And they get to take their selfies with the president, and he gives them merch. And everybody has a nice day, and then they're much more likely to just sort of do, as he says, and I think he actually enjoys the act of keeping them in line BASH: Which is important, because if you kind of just look at the numbers, we did a lot of that in the first segment. But just look at the numbers of the Senate right now, they need -- the Democrats would need, and even John Thune would need. Most importantly, let's just say they pass a one-year extension for these healthcare subsidies. John Thune would need six or seven Republicans to go along with it.

And I talked to somebody this morning who said that's not even a sure thing. Again, that's where Donald Trump comes into place because if he had them all down to the Rose Garden and gave them all honey and vinegar, maybe the vinegar, if he made this decision, would be, you got to vote for this.

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ZELENY: What a nice salad that would be. Look, I mean, you're right. We -- the only person who can swiftly on this is the president. He's not bidding. Engaged next week, he goes to Asia for an entire week. The question is, will he become engaged before that, it is something that, as of now, the White House thinks they're basically winning or not losing. I think, dramatically, but that could change.

I mean, it could not take much for that to change. Every day, increasingly, federal workers now are coming up on their second paycheck that they are not going to get at the end of this week. So that has a ramification on small town grocery stores, obviously, food banks, other things. So, I'm not sure we know that exactly how this end or when this ends, but we know how this ends, and that has to be the president's involvement.

BASH: Not winning but not losing. That is the modern-day description of excellence in Washington these days. Up next. With two weeks until election day. Two weeks Republicans are trying for an upset in the Garden State. Will opposition to President Trump be enough to keep Jersey blue, though? Well, Jeff, just got back from the Garden State. He's here, as you've seen. He will open up his reporter's notebook and share what he learned.

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