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Dems Worry About Narrowing NJ Gov. Race As Election Day Nears; Trump Reups Ciattarelli Endorsement In NJ, Calls Him A "Winner"; Trump Nominee's Confirmation In Doubt After Politico Report On Alleged History Of Racist, Antisemitic Texts; Part Of White House Demolished To Make Room For Trump's Ballroom. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired October 21, 2025 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:30:58]

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: Two weeks from today, voters in New Jersey and in Virginia will choose their next governors in the first major elections since President Trump returned to office. With just days left in the campaign, it's a reliably blue state, New Jersey, that Democrats are a bit worried about. The latest polls have Democratic Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill in the lead, but Republican ex-state Assemblyman Jack Ciattarelli within striking distance.

My panel is back now. And again, just a table set here. Shawn, just look at the New Jersey presidential elections. Bill Clinton put it away by 14 points. Joe Biden in 2020 put it away by 16 points. And Kamala Harris won, but by only six percentage points. And this, again, is in a blue state. That is one of the reasons Democrats are a bit worried, or at least they're not taking it for granted, is probably a better way to say it.

SHAWN MCCREESH, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Yes, I think every race is its own unique beast. And a lot of people, I think, feel that she's not the strongest candidate, actually. On the other hand, I think it's fascinating how every single race still seems to be so defined by Donald Trump.

He is the president. But, you know, Jeff, you had a great story this week. And my colleague Shane Goldmacher had a really good one in The Times as well about the Democrats' inability to not make everything about Trump. And I think it is sort of an existential issue for them. They sort of can't give it up.

But on the other hand, if Trump hatred isn't enough to drive out the base, then they have to figure out what they actually stand for. And that's been sort of a trickier thing to figure out.

BASH: Thank you for teeing up Jeff's piece. I'll show the headline to our viewers. Donald Trump is not on the ballot, but he's a major factor in the November elections. I think we even have a QR code so you guys can find it or you can just use the Google machine and find it or go to CNN.com.

Jeff, I do want to play a little bit of the conversations that you had while you were in New Jersey and you contributed to that piece.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So for any suggestion that he may hurt you in this race, you say that's not true.

JACK CIATTARELLI (R), NEW JERSEY GOV. CANDIDATE: I don't see that at all. And as I go around the state of New Jersey, I don't find that at all. People want change here in New Jersey. They know that this race is about New Jersey. It's not about the president.

REP. MIKIE SHERRILL (D), NEW JERSEY GOV. CANDIDATE: What they're telling me now is that all of their costs are going up because of Donald Trump. And this is from Democrats. This is from Independents. This is from Trump voters who said, you know, they like Trump, but they hate what he's doing to the economy.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

ZELENY: Look, I mean, that switch from 2020 to 2024 is very instructive here by -- Trump losing in 2020 by 16 points and then losing only by six points. That was the biggest swing in a blue state. So that sort of sets the table for where everything is here.

But, look, both sides are betting on Trump. The Democrats are betting on Trump to sort of draw some enthusiasm against him. And Ciattarelli is betting on those Trump voters who don't always turn out in races when he isn't on the ballot. But a question here is Ciattarelli, Jack Ciattarelli, very personable. He is also trying to get the endorsement from some Democratic mayors and trying to show that it is time for change in New Jersey.

And one of the most interesting statistics, you probably know this, this is slightly before your time in New Jersey, but you're from there, not since 1961. Obviously, you weren't born then, but not since 1961 --

BASH: Thank you for putting that out, Jeff.

ZELENY: -- have Democrats won three consecutive elections.

BASH: Right.

ZELENY: So that is one of the most interesting things here. Phil Murphy, of course, has been the Democratic governor for the last eight years. So that is one of the challenges, the headwinds that Mikie Sherrill has. But one of the also Trump factors in this, not just his personality, they're focusing on his policies.

And one thing he announced last week, he's going to stop the Gateway Tunnel Project. And what that is, is the nation's biggest infrastructure project, a commuter tunnel rail between New Jersey and New York. About 100,000 jobs are at stake here.

And to punish Chuck Schumer for the shutdown, the President in the Oval Office last week said he's going to terminate this project. Even Jack Ciattarelli is like, no, I support this project. Not helpful.

[12:35:07]

So our Trump's policies to me, the difference between sort of eight years ago, a lot of it was Trump's personality and the democracy arguments. These are actually his policies that are on the line that I find it slightly more interesting.

BASH: Yes. And so you're absolutely right that then your reporting is terrific. Both of you guys were talking about how Democrats are really playing into the Trump factor, but so is Jack Ciattarelli. The President posted something about the fact that Ciattarelli calls him all the time. Mikie Sherrill was very excited to see that, saying, breaking Jack for New Jersey, calls Trump constantly, and he still can't protect the Gateway Tunnel project exactly to the point that Jeff was making.

TIA MITCHELL, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION: Yes, I thought those back to back Trump posts was really interesting. One was written a little bit more in Trump's voice and one was more of a like a more formalized endorsement post. But to me, it tells us that it's on President Trump's mind.

You know, a lot of times, particularly the Truth Social posts that are in his own voice, really reflects his real-time stream of consciousness a lot of times.

BASH: And this was last night.

MITCHELL: And this was last night.

BASH: So he probably wasn't around his aides --

MITCHELL: Yes.

BASH: -- and he was just doing it, watching something.

MITCHELL: This was him on his phone, maybe saw something on TV. And so I think it shows that this race is on his mind. He does want Ciattarelli to win. He does want to project that, you know, Ciattarelli is someone that is wanting his approval, wanting his input, that he would be a governor in Trump's own image.

Now, how does that play out in New Jersey? We'll see if those posts are helpful or not. Because I think to Shawn's point, we -- yes, more and more elections are becoming nationalized, particularly gubernatorial elections. But it still often reflects kind of, you know, issues to the voters in that state that aren't always easily defined by the national trend.

BASH: And as he has sort of want to do, President Obama is going to go in there.

MCCREESH: Oh, right. That's so interesting. Trump's been obsessed with Jersey for a long time. He threw a huge Wildwood rally during the campaign and claimed that 100,000 people were there. I don't think it was quite that many, but it was really big.

And that guy, Scott Presler, has moved there. This is the sort of long-haired fellow who they claim helped Trump flip Pennsylvania. And he's spending every waking second trying to turn New Jersey red. So I think it's going to become a huge kind of center of the action.

BASH: Well, he also spent -- he, the President, spends most weekends in the summer in New Jersey --

MCCREESH: That too, that too.

BASH: -- at Bedminster, so there's a reason.

MCCREESH: He owns several casinos there.

BASH: Oh, yes. I've heard that.

MCCREESH: Yes.

BASH: All right, everybody stand by.

Coming up, texts reportedly show a Trump nominee admitting he has a, quote, "Nazi streak." But this is a question that maybe shouldn't be asked, but we do have to ask it. Is it a deal breaker for his confirmation? That's next.

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[12:42:38]

BASH: He's not going to pass. That's a quote from Senate Majority Leader John Thune about Paul Ingrassia. Who is Paul Ingrassia, you ask? He's President Trump's nominee to lead the government's whistleblower office. Why is the top Senate Republican so down on him, you ask? Well, Politico reported on a string of disgustingly racist text messages Ingrassia allegedly sent.

In those texts obtained by Politico, Ingrassia says he has a Nazi streak from time to time. He argues Martin Luther King Jr.'s day should be ended and tossed into the seventh circle of hell where it belongs. Ingrassia's attorney questioned the authenticity of the messages and said Jews know that Mr. Ingrassia is the furthest thing from a Nazi.

My panel is back now. Shawn?

MCCREESH: Yes, I mean, I think it almost goes without saying it's nuts that he hasn't been pulled yet and that there hasn't been, you know, more widespread condemnation. I think the piece of this that really interested me in the original Politico article by Daniel Lippman that broke the story, the person who shared the text messages with the reporter who was in the group chat where Paul Ingrassia was saying this, said that he basically went from being a sort of mild-mannered, young conservative law student who rose in MAGA circles and got on these podcasts, and that the quote-unquote "fame" went to his head. I just thought this was such an interesting psychological insight that somebody who dabbles in these sort of right-wing media circles ends up having an ego explosion and it leads to this kind of talk I thought was really dark.

BASH: Yes. Well, that's a really good point. So there is the question that we're waiting for to see if this guy's nomination is going to be pulled. And I should also add that the attorney for him says that it looks like the texts could be manipulated, but we don't know for sure about that.

But the bottom line is, this is not in a vacuum. And we saw last week that there were a slew of texts that came out also in Politico from young Republicans to one another with things like this. "Everyone that votes no is going to be" -- "Everyone that votes no is going to the gas chamber." "Can we fix the showers? Gas chambers don't fit the Hitler aesthetic." "I'm ready to watch people burn now."

[12:45:09]

Now, the Trump administration came into office saying that they were going to fight antisemitism specifically. I mean, this is racism against African Americans and also antisemitism. But specifically on the antisemitism, worked really hard to try to root it out on the far left on college campuses.

This is happening on the far right or maybe even not so far right of --

MITCHELL: Right, its own party leaders.

BASH: -- its own party. And what we heard so far from the Vice President is kind of trying to dismiss it and not condemn it. Listen to the Vice President.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

JD VANCE (R), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Kids do stupid things, especially young boys. They tell edgy, offensive jokes like that's what kids do. And I really don't want us to grow up in a country where a kid telling a stupid joke, telling a very offensive, stupid joke is cause to ruin their lives.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BASH: These aren't kids.

MITCHELL: Right.

BASH: These are young Republicans, not college Republicans. And the age goes up to, what, 30 or 40/

MITCHELL: And I think it's really important to make that clear, that these are not kids. It included someone who was serving in their state legislature. Again, if we're going to say that the people in these group chats are so immature that we can't take what they say seriously, then we have to ask, should they be in leadership roles in the party? Should they be someone nominated to be Senate confirmed for a leadership role in our federal government? You can't have both things --

BASH: Yes.

MITCHELL: -- at one time. But I also think the Republican Party runs the risk of being labeled as being performative in some of their rhetoric and actions around saying they want to root out antisemitism. Because if you're making that part of your brand central to your brand, you're going after colleges, you're going after protests, even labeling the "No Kings" protests last weekend as antisemitic.

We saw that, even though there was no evidence of that. But in these group chats, which again, are party activists, you're not willing to even -- not even get to punishment or accountability, but to say this is not right. Then to me, that questions what you -- what really is your aim when you say you're trying to root out antisemitism.

BASH: Yes, I think what you said about the culture is definitely something that needs to be explored.

Don't go anywhere because up next, we are going to have extreme makeover White House edition and show you how the President's plans to shake up the executive are playing out figuratively and with very heavy machinery.

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[12:52:23]

BASH: There's a teardown team at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Now, Democrats are arguing it is a classic political metaphor. You can see it for yourself. Demolition is continuing on parts of the East Wing to make way for the ballroom the President has dreamt about -- has dreamt about, rather.

Here, he talked about it moments ago while in the Rose Garden with Republican senators.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I said, if I do this again, I'm going to get a ballroom built and we're putting up our own money with the government just paying for nothing. You probably hear the beautiful sound of construction to the back. You hear that sound?

Oh, that's music to my ears. I love that sound. Other people don't like it. I love it, Josh. I think when I hear that sound, it reminds me of money. In this case, it reminds me of lack of money because I'm paying for it.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BASH: As the President mentioned, the White House claims that $200 million, 90,000 square foot ballroom will be paid for by private donors and also the President himself.

My panel is back now. Jeff, really is, I mean, whether or not it's a metaphor for just politics or just for the fact that he is a major disruptor and that is precisely what he is doing in Washington, regardless of what you think about the edifice of the White House.

ZELENY: Look, it's been nearly a century since there have been this major of changes made to the White House. The East Wing has been adapted over the years. They added the Truman Balcony, but this is bigger than any other change that's been made in modern time. But it was interesting how it was disclosed.

A picture from the Treasury Department, presumably snapped by a non- furloughed government worker, was sent to the Washington Post. You know, just looking at those images, it's very striking. Now today, the Treasury Department sent out a notice to employees to not take any more pictures because it is sort of hard to see unless you are on the grounds of the White House complex.

But, look, this shouldn't be necessarily a surprise because the President said he was effectively going to remove the East Wing of the White House to construct this, but it's jarring all the same. A, it's in a government shutdown, but, B, this is one of the few buildings where if you look at it, it's, you know, the subject of movies, TV, history. You know exactly what's happening.

And people don't necessarily have all the context here, but it just is jarring when you look at that, as is any construction project.

BASH: And these are the --

ZELENY: But --

BASH: Sorry.

ZELENY: -- the -- it is something the President wants to leave his legacy to, and this building will certainly be it.

[12:55:03]

BASH: Yes, I mean, he -- legacy and Donald Trump equals construction. Isn't the East Wing where, I mean, the East Wing is for First Lady's office is. Where she going to go?

MCCREESH: It is. I was talking to some people on her staff last month, and they were like, yes, we're boxing everything up and moving it into the White House residence. They knew that they were going to get displaced.

I will say I was asked to write a short article about this yesterday for the Times, and the reader response has been overwhelming. I mean, people are emailing me every five minutes. There's something about these images that have really upset people.

I think people found this just extremely provocative and difficult to look at, at least for one part of the country. And so metaphors can be powerful, and this one certainly has had an effect on a lot of people. And I think the other thing that's fascinating is that it's not just the White House complex that he's altering, you know, the Oval Office, the flagpoles, the ballroom, the cabinet room, but he's also renovating the Kennedy Center.

Now he wants an arch across from Lincoln Memorial on the other side of the river. And --

BASH: Arch to Trump?

MCCREESH: Yes, yes. I mean, he's really changing the whole look of the town

BASH: We're going to have to leave it there. I should also say that Hillary Clinton said it's not his house, it's your house, and he's destroying it.

All right. Thank you for joining Inside Politics today. CNN News Central is starting after a quick break.