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Intense Talks To Reopen Government Continue Amid Sticking Points; Johnson Refuses To Promise House Will Match Any Senate Vote; White Nationalist Nick Fuentes Ignites Bitter Feud Within GOP; Jon Karl Takes Readers Inside Trump Second Term. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired November 06, 2025 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:30:28]

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: The government shutdown is about to feel different for federal workers, including flight traffic controllers. A second paycheck for zero dollars. And for travelers, disruptions as the FAA reduces air traffic by 10 percent at 40 major airports, including the ones you see here on the map. That is a lot of airports. At the same time, sources on both sides of the aisle are telling us that negotiations on a potential deal to reopen the government are getting closer.

I'm going to go back to Manu Raju on Capitol Hill. You can feel it in talking to Republicans and talking to Democrats, they are getting there. I know that you've been covering the meetings that they're having, including a lunch going on right now. What's the latest on what you're hearing? How close are they, Manu?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's a lot of movement right now, Dana, behind the scenes to try to reopen the government. It was a historically long government shutdown, 37 days, the longest ever in history, and the consequences piling up by the day for the American people, which means that the pressure really is on at this key moment.

Democrats are weighing a deal that would have reopened the government either until the end of this year or early next year as tied to a larger funding package for several agencies. But one of the key questions remains about whether Democrats will accept a vote to extend expiring Obamacare subsidies. Remember, that was at the heart of this dispute to begin with.

They had said that those expiring subsidies must be dealt with as part of this negotiation, as part of this funding bill, because people will see their premiums increase and it must be dealt with now. But what Republicans are offering is a separate vote not tied to the funding bill.

The question is going to be if enough Democrats say, OK, fine, we had to vote to reopen the government and we'll vote on this later, even though there's no commitment that that separate health care vote could ultimately become law. I put that question to one of the key Democratic negotiators, Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire. I asked her about the Democratic concern from many of her colleagues about putting this to a separate vote and the potential that that could never become law.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: If that can't pass the ACA vote, then what do you say --

SEN. JEANNE SHAHEEN (D), NEW HAMPSHIRE: Well, it's not clear that it can't pass. There are a lot of Republicans who I've been talking to who think we need to we need to address the issue.

RAJU: But the Speaker's not committed to put it on the floor.

SHAHEEN: Well, I can't speak for the Speaker. If he doesn't understand that people can't afford their health insurance rates, then he's got a problem.

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: I'm not promising anybody anything. I'm going to let this process play out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And that last comment, critical that Speaker Mike Johnson making very clear that he would not commit to any separate vote on the House floor on Obamacare subsidies, which is what Democrats have been demanding. So the question ultimately here, Dana, is whether Democrats will say, OK, we still need to reopen the government.

We'll see what happens on health care, even if there's no guarantee that that can become law. And we require eight Democrats in total to advance a bill to become law. Unclear if that will happen, but that's where the discussion is at this key moment here in the Capitol.

BASH: Yes, I mean --

RAJU: Dana?

BASH: -- you're so right. That statement from House Speaker Mike Johnson was very telling, because I know I'm hearing and you're hearing as well that House Republicans are saying we can't deal with this. So, you know, who's going to have to give them cover? The president of the United States. We'll see if that happens in private or in public or both.

Manu, thank you so much. Appreciate that great reporting.

Up next, we have other new reporting about anti-Semitism roiling the right and the Republicans who are pushing back.

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[12:38:32]

BASH: There's deep concern in some corners of the GOP about what they see as a frightening rise in raw anti-Semitism on the hard right. It spilled into the open when Tucker Carlson used his very popular platform to interview Nick Fuentes. Now, Fuentes is a far right Gen Z influencer who said very nice things about Adolf Hitler. He regularly traffics in racist, sexist and anti-Semitic tropes.

Carlson hosted him on his show last week for a really friendly interview, triggering what you could call a significant ripple of condemnations. Not a tidal wave, though. Now, an apology from one of the conservative movement's leading figures, the president of the Heritage Foundation, Kevin Roberts, says he regrets his initial defense of Carlson's interview.

CNN has learned he apologized to Heritage staff members this week, saying, quote, "I made a mistake and I let you down and I let down this institution, and I'm sorry, period, full stop." He also said he has no intention of resigning.

My panel is back now. Josh Dawsey, there was such a huge outcry about anti-Semitism post-October 7th on the far left. We saw everywhere and still do, but at the time on college campuses. And that outcry came from Donald Trump and his allies.

Now, what has been going on on the hard right is spilling out into the public. And we are seeing some pushback by some people who have decided we don't want to, you know, to stay silent. Listen to a couple of examples.

[12:40:12]

BEN SHAPIRO, HOST, THE BEN SHAPIRO SHOW: If Republicans decide to cower before the likes of neo-Nazis and their propagandizers, they deserve to lose and they will lose. Neo-Nazis and their propagandizers are not Republicans. They're not America first. They're not MAGA. They sure as hell aren't conservative.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: If you sit there with someone who says Adolf Hitler was very, very cool, and that their mission is to combat and defeat global jewelry, and you say nothing, then you are a coward and you are complicit in that evil.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH DAWSEY, POLITICAL INVESTIGATIONS REPORTER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: Yes, I mean, some of us shouldn't be that hard, right? I mean, if you hear someone saying anti-Semitic things like the thing that Senator Ted Cruz just said there, I mean, that traditionally had been something that both parties would have called out. That was not a particularly difficult position. But as you've said, it had grown on the left and some on the right now as well.

And what's questioning on the Republican side of the Trump side to me is a lot of these folks don't want to criticize Tucker Carlson. They don't want to go after folks who have these popular brands. They have these popular following. They have millions and millions of followers. And even if they privately disagree with what figures like that say, sometimes they just don't want a war over something like this. But is, you know, having someone who's made clearly anti-Semitic statements on your program, is that a breaking line for most folks. It's a really telling question. I mean, you saw Ben Shapiro there come out and say that he also has a major following among Republican figures on the right, particularly younger people. And he basically saying, you know, you have to stand up for this. This is not a hard call.

And how many people will follow him? I guess we don't know the answer to that.

BASH: And Jon Karl, let me just read. I'm not going to play it, but I just want to read just a couple of things that were said during that now infamous conversation that Tucker had with Nick Fuentes last week. Fuentes said that it arises from things arise from Jewish leftists mugged by the reality of what they saw during the Yom Kippur War.

Tucker Carlson talked about being seized by a brain virus, talking about Ted Cruz and others, even though they're not Jewish. Nick Fuentes, I would say that the main challenge is a big challenge is organized Jewry in America.

JONATHAN KARL, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, ABC NEWS: Look, Tucker Carlson had Nick Fuentes on the show, not just for a friendly interview, but a two-hour long interview. This is somebody who is clearly anti-Semitic, white supremacist, all of that. And he's welcomed by Tucker Carlson. But let's remember, he was also welcomed at Mar-a-Lago and he had dinner with Donald Trump back in 2022.

There was a huge outcry about it condemned by, you know, by a lot of people, but not by Donald Trump. He never to this day ever, you know, said it was a mistake, apologized or anything like that. And Tucker Carlson is not just a conservative figure and a guy that used to have a show on Fox News and has a big following now. He is somebody incredibly close to Donald Trump.

I mean, Tucker Carlson was in the box at the convention right next to Trump when when he was formally nominated as the Republican choice for president. Tucker Carlson is somebody who regularly visits the White House now. Stays with with JD Vance at the vice presidential residence.

So, you know, there is that -- look, there have been a lot of -- there have been conservative figures who have forthrightly condemned this, condemned Carlson, condemned Fuentes. But you haven't heard it from the White House. And frankly --

BASH: Yes.

KARL: -- it's very difficult for the White House to do it because they're tied in. Trump is tied into this.

BASH: And JD Vance is one of the people we haven't heard from. We did see an exchange he had with a student in Oxford, Mississippi, on October 29th.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm just confused why this idea has come around, considering the fact that not only does their religion not agree with ours, but also openly supports the prosecution of ours.

JD VANCE (R), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STAES: Yes, so, let me -- let's say things -- a few things about this. First of all, when the president of the United States says America first, that means that he pursues the interests of Americans first. So when people say that Israel is somehow manipulating or controlling the president of the United States, they're not controlling this president of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: OK, first of all, it's persecution, not prosecution. And second of all, where is the correction there? Jews are not persecuting Christians.

[12:45:00]

MOLLY BALL, POLITICAL REPORTER & AUTHOR: This has been brewing on the right for a long time now. I mean, Charlie Kirk, before his tragic and untimely death, was at war with Nick Fuentes and his army of so-called gropers and was doing his best to keep them out of the conservative tent, to keep them out of the conservative movement.

But you have a lot of young MAGA acolytes who have -- whose ideology is fundamentally that anything that triggers the left is worthwhile, that anything that makes people mad, that if they're calling you a racist, calling you a sexist, calling you unacceptable, that means you're doing something right. And so if they can transgress this taboo and then you put it against the backdrop of the -- of both parties having elements of the question, the long American alliance with Israel, particularly in light of the Gaza war and Benjamin Netanyahu's conduct.

And it has created this really combustible atmosphere where where there's been this outpouring of anti-Semitism. So, you know, the problem for the right and for the Republican Party is not that Nick Fuentes exists, it's that he's popular. It's that he has a following. And those people see themselves as followers of Donald Trump and as also people who subscribe to this anti-Semitic worldview.

BASH: Well said. Sadly, well said. Thank you so much.

Don't go anywhere. You, thank you all for being here.

Coming up, who did Steve Bannon call a punk? Who did President Trump refer to as a wimp? Jon Karl has the answers in this book -- oh, well, I'm going to try-- there you go, in this book. We'll reveal them after a break.

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[12:51:01] BASH: Jonathan Karl is back to talk about his fantastic new book, "Retribution: Donald Trump and the Campaign that Changed America." Thanks for sticking around.

I want to talk about the book, but I just want to start while I have you. Have you heard anything from your sources inside the Trump administration about whether, despite the sort of public bravado, there really is a quiet reckoning happening, or at least a discussion about changing tactics after the election?

KARL: The only thing is communications, which we, how many times have we heard this?

BASH: But he's the chief of communications.

KARL: But he's saying that, I mean, that their view is that Republicans haven't done a good enough job telling the world what a great job Donald Trump has done as president. That is -- so no. So the answer -- I really don't see any course correction coming. Perhaps fighting harder, more aggressive, more confrontational.

This is not like, kumbaya, we're going to come together now. We realize that --

BASH: Yes. What did Obama say? I got a dropping. I mean, it was a different --

KARL: Shellacking.

BASH: Shellacking. Thank you.

KARL: Yes.

BASH: OK, so let's talk about this terrific book. One of the things you write about is a phone call between the President and Steve Bannon. This is -- we're talking about this second term.

KARL: Yes.

BASH: The President put him on speaker in the Oval Office in front of Scott Bessent, Marco Rubio, Steve Witkoff, Mike Waltz, Pete Hegseth and JD Vance and asked Bannon what he thought of the deal that they had negotiated with Ukraine. This is just before Zelenskyy was coming into the Oval Office for that infamous meeting.

You write, "'If that punk comes here, he's going to want to -- want a security guarantee,' Bannon said. You can't trust him. You can't trust any of the Europeans. You can't trust Putin either, but these guys are really slippery." And then you went on to write, "There's little doubt that the tone of Bannon's advice to the president -- calling Zelenskyy that punk and the substance of what he said set the tone for the coming confrontation."

KARL: Yes, that amazing meeting in the Oval Office where Vance and Trump berate Zelenskyy. Absolutely. So this was a few days earlier. They had just had a meeting with Macron, the president of France. And Trump actually asks his National Security Adviser, Mike Waltz, to get Steve Bannon on the phone, largely because he knows what Bannon thinks of Zelenskyy.

And Bannon is on his show. You know, he's on the war room. It's on like four hours a day. So he's on his show. So he sends it to voicemail and just with a message, I'll call you back. Then Trump himself picks up his own phone and calls Bannon. And Bannon now has to take the call, goes to a commercial break.

And from that little speaker phone in Donald Trump's iPhone, he lectures the whole national security team about that. Just what you said, that punk, you can't trust him. He was arguing against what they were proposing to Trump, which was this deal where they would share some of Ukraine's natural resources.

But an extraordinary thing. It went on for about a half an hour and absolutely did set the tone for that mail (ph).

BASH: Yes. And until this book, we didn't know about that phone call.

KARL: No, no, no.

BASH: Really great reporting. Let's look at the other side of the aisle and the drama going on behind the scenes. We were talking about Pelosi, of course --

KARL: Yes.

BASH: -- and all of the the things that she has done and the impact that she has made. One of them, of course, was being really instrumental in getting Joe Biden to drop out of the race in 2024. You write about a conversation she had with President Obama about this. And here's what you write.

Obama -- "A source close to Obama, insists the former" -- Sorry. And the question was whether or not there would be a primary --

KARL: Or some kind of process --

BASH: But some kind of process --

KARL: -- to choose the replacement --

BASH: -- instead of just giving it to Kamala Harris. You wrote, "A source close to Obama insists the president wasn't angry at Pelosi for abandoning that agreement, rather giving her a good-natured ribbing." And then Obama -- you write, "The Obamas were not happy. Pelosi confidant told me the person summed up Obama's message to Pelosi as essentially, 'What the F' did you just do?'" Because Pelosi endorsed Kamala right away.

[12:55:04]

KARL: Yes. And I talked to somebody who overheard this entire conversation and absolutely fascinating. The precursor to this is Obama and Pelosi were quietly working behind the scenes. We kind of sensed this, but didn't know exactly what was happening. But they had been talking regularly sent after the debate, after that disastrous CNN debate, you know, for Biden.

And their agreement was to try to gently get him out of the race and to -- that neither one of them would endorse Kamala or anybody else. But there had to be some kind of a process. And what happened is really Pelosi had no choice. Everybody within hours of Biden dropping out who would have run against Kamala Harris endorsed her -- Pritzker, Whitmer, Gavin Newsom.

But -- so Pelosi made that endorsement, and Obama clearly was not happy with it.

BASH: So fascinating. You have so much in this book, "Retribution: Donald Trump and the Campaign that Changed America." Go buy it.

Thank you so much. If you didn't hear, I used to be his producer.

KARL: The best ever. Thank you.

BASH: Right here at CNN.

Thanks for joining Inside Politics. CNN News Central starts after the break.

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