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Inside Politics

As Shutdown Pain Spreads, Senators Take Aim At Each Other; Trump Dismisses Cost Concerns. Will That Backfire?; Are Republicans Regretting Rush To Redistrict?; Interview with Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY); Top Democrat: No Seat is Off the Table in Battle for Senate; A Look Back at Pelosi's Interactions with the Press. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired November 09, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:27]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(MUSIC)

MANU RAJU, CNN HOST (voice-over): Grounded.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are really hurting out here.

RAJU: As shut down frustration soars and Americans go hungry, when will this finally end?

Plus, warning signs, as Republicans sweeping losses set off alarms. Democrats sense an opening. I go one on one with their Senate campaign chief.

SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D-NY): If candidates understand what voters are going through, that is the secret sauce for success.

RAJU: Will they seize on high prices?

And is President Trump in denial?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are the victors on affordability.

RAJU: And gavel drop. Nancy Pelosi's era is coming to an end. A look back at our spirited exchanges.

Do you think they are?

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): But that's not the -- I'm here to talk about.

RAJU: And we will -- we will get into that, I promise you.

PELOSI: I'm not going to.

INSIDE POLITICS, the best reporting from inside the corridors of power, starts now. (MUSIC)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU (on camera): Good morning and welcome to INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. I'm Manu Raju.

So just when will this finally end? That question on the minds of so many Americans as the government shutdown is now on day 40, the longest ever in history. Thousands of flights canceled or delayed across the country, and it is expected to get much, much worse.

And desperation for so many families who are not getting paychecks because of federal furloughs are not getting critical food assistance. This after the Supreme Court allowed the Trump administration to withhold paying full food stamp benefits through an emergency fund for now.

And even though the Senate is holding a rare weekend session, things seem to be getting only grimmer, as President Trump yesterday took a much harder line and rejected Democrats' demands to extend expiring health care subsidies at the heart of this feud.

And then he injected his own ideas into the mix.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Got to change the fundamental precept of Obamacare which has proven to be anything but affordable.

I want to congratulate President Trump. He has gotten into the game today. He's given us a pathway forward.

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: Republicans are now about to further burden taxpayers by blindly extending a flawed program.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: Republicans are making it clear as day that they are happy to let premiums skyrocket. If Republicans want to talk about long term fixes to ACA affordability, Democrats are ready.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So just what will it take to end this damaging standoff?

To answer that question and many more, I have an excellent group of reporters this morning. Leigh Ann Caldwell of "Puck"; "The Dispatch's" Jonah Goldberg; David Weigel of Semafor; and CNN's Priscilla Alvarez.

Good morning to you all.

Senate was in session this weekend. That means you were working this weekend as well. And they're here this afternoon.

Just want to give a viewers guide of kind of where things are in these negotiations. I get the question all the time. What is going on? When will this end?

Okay. There are two levels of negotiations going on to end the shutdown. Both are related, one of which is to fund several federal agencies through the end of next September. As part of that, it would kick the can down or reopen the government. Really until either before Christmas or into January.

But as part of that, Democrats want to include language to prevent mass firings of federal employees. We'll see if the White House actually goes along with that.

And a separate negotiation is over. Those Obamacare subsidies expiring at years end. Concerned by Democrats they've made since the beginning that it could raise health care premiums, Republicans position all along has been reopen the government first, we'll deal with these subsidies later. There was a sign that perhaps they could get close to resolution on that Obamacare issue last week.

But then the Tuesday elections happened, Democrats dug in and said, we need to tie this to the government funding package, ultimately. And now, we have Trump weighing in now saying, no way on those Obamacare subsidies. He injects his own ideas into the mix. And the bottom line here is that things are getting worse. On day 40.

LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, PUCK CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, that's not the direction that things were supposed to go. And as you alluded to, it was not where things were just a week ago, where last weekend there was so much optimism that it was just going to be a couple of days until -- until things got resolved. But here we are at this standstill.

Donald Trump injecting himself. This is what Democrats had wanted throughout this process. They thought that they wanted to negotiate with the president.

[08:05:00]

But Trump's not inserting himself as a negotiating partner. He's now making demands, which is going to make it a lot more difficult for Republicans in this process moving forward.

But ultimately, it still feels like any sort of deal is going to happen outside of Trump, almost outside of Chuck Schumer. If these bipartisan rank and file negotiations can continue to progress a little bit more and, and reach some sort of deal, but it's not looking good, especially, you know, Thanksgiving is just two and a half weeks away. People are going to start traveling really soon. And I think that's going to put a lot of pressure on both parties to get something done.

RAJU: There are people this Thanksgiving travel season is already starting, and just talking about Trump's late demands here. This is what he posted on Truth Social about what he is recommending. Senate Republicans, he said, should add hundreds of billions of dollars that are currently being sent to money sucking insurance companies in order to save bad health care provided by Obamacare. He wants them to be sent directly to the people so that they can purchase their own, much better health care.

Okay, the president, of course, is entitled to have his own ideas, and Democrats have their own ideas on what to do. They're talking about trying to resolve the health care system that has been divided. The two parties for generations. Now, on day 40 of the government shutdown.

JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. Look, I mean, and this is one of the arguments that, at least textually is driving this thing about getting rid of the filibuster, right? Ron Johnson, maybe we can get a better health care system. They've done -- none of the work required.

Like, even directionally, I kind of agree with Trump, private, you know, free market health care principles. All that kind of stuff. The amount of just legwork you need to do on public policy to like, radically change our -- the way we do health care in this country is not something you do when most of Congress isn't doing anything, hasn't done anything.

You've talked to no lobbyists, you've had no hearings. It is all kayfabe. There's no serious to it, to it whatsoever. And the funny thing is Trump has this ability to like, constantly be the dog that catches the car, right? So, like, say they get rid of the filibuster. What -- where's the plan? Like what are you actually going to do in the two weeks before thanksgiving to actually follow through on that?

RAJU: There's no longer term strategy beyond that.

GOLDBERG: News cycle to news cycle.

RAJU: And he has been concerned about the impact on the Republicans are taking the brunt of the blame. The Republicans are taking, according to the polls, this is one of the polls from the "The Washington Post" saying that Trump and Republicans deserve 45 percent, 45 percent of voters view that they deserve responsibility for the shutdown. Just 33 percent compared to Democrats, even though it is Democrats who are making those demands on Obamacare who have rejected the Republican bill to reopen the government 14 times. But still, that's how the public perceives it.

And this is why he's turning his fire on the GOP. Look, I mean, he has been posting relentlessly about getting rid of the filibuster. And remember, if they were to do that, they could pass legislation by a simple majority. But then if they're in the minority, they lose that tool to delay work for the majority, which is why Republicans will not go for this. They are not going to change the filibuster.

There are so many of them that are dead set against it. But because now he's turning this into a GOP versus GOP feud, when the Republican leaders on Capitol Hill wanted to be focused squarely on the Democrats refusal to open the government.

DAVID WEIGEL, SEMAFOR NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: That's right. And it's also, in the long run, Democrats would benefit if they got rid of the filibuster. I talked to several this week who were people like jeff, Jeff Merkley in public, for example, is saying the president should come back to the table. Merkley wanted to get to bring down the filibuster to talk bill filibuster years ago, because Democrats want to create programs, which you can't do with 51 votes for Republicans want to get rid of programs which you can do with reconciliation or with rescissions or with impoundment.

Opening that door to Democrats, they love this fight. They're having a great time after the election. Beyond -- beyond the conversation of changing to health care, which they wanted, the conversation changing to Congress should just do what the president wants. Wonderful tool to have, in effect, if they get back in 2029, because they look at what could they have done?

You'll hear Republicans' list -- what Democrats could have done if they had this tool themselves. What can Republicans do with it? Not just they don't have a plan. There's very little that they need to get rid of this to, except for the president being annoyed that the shutdown is not over. That's a very, very bad trade in the short term for a long term empowerment of Democrats.

RAJU: Meantime, 42 million people are relying on the federal food assistance. SNAP, also known as food stamps. The administration is saying that they can't dip into this emergency fund to help pay for this for at least another few more weeks, even though federal courts have said that they could. The Supreme Court did side with the administration to allow it to continue to withhold funds.

But why is the Trump administration really just digging in on this issue when courts have said you should pay out this money?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the litigation is still continuing on all of those fronts and ultimately, to your point, Manu, it means that millions of Americans are struggling to eat.

[08:10:05]

I mean, that is like the overarching issue here. And oftentimes, when it's talked about in the -- in in the dialogue, it's talked about as like the Democratic constituencies who are struggling, but the realities have shown in the data shows that it's -- Democrats and Republicans that are going to struggle on this front. And on top of that, its going to affect the economy.

And ultimately, that's what speaks, right? The president has talked about this week the fact that Republicans were to blame for the shutdown. The economy is what speaks to the administration. Although we can have a conversation about affordability and his comments on that. But certainly --

RAJU: We will have that conversation.

ALVAREZ: We will have that -- right. But ultimately, this is a long term -- the long term effects of that, as you were talking about with the filibuster, the, the food, the snap benefits and, what this effect will show on the economy is the other part of this, when were in this unprecedented territory of the longest running shutdown. RAJU: And, you know, on the politics of the health care front,

Democrats feel like they can't give in now, especially after what happened on Tuesday. There was a discussion about having just a separate vote to extend the Obamacare subsidies. But that is probably not going to pass. The House, maybe not even pass the Senate probably couldn't get signed into law by President Trump.

So, a number of Democrats say our voters want us to dig in and fight right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: There will be a letdown to your voters.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): I think voters would rightly see it as a surrender.

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): They want us to stand up for what we believe in, and they want us to use our power to try to keep costs down.

RAJU: But what about the issue of health care and health care costs? So that problem for the GOP.

SEN. THOM TILLIS (D-NC): I actually believe, Manu, that if we don't work on a smart glide path for the Obamacare subsidies, that that too will be something that will produce headwinds for Republicans in the midterms.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So there's unease among Republicans about health care and the impacts on the politics. And then on the left, they're saying fight, are they?

My question is, are Democrats overreading what voters said on Tuesday?

CALDWELL: That -- that's always the risk, right? Becoming overconfident and overreading what happened.

You know, there's a -- there's a philosophy and a train of thought among Democrats as well that having the fight is enough, right? So, Republicans reject extending Obamacare. Democrats can blame Republicans for it. Had that into 2026 midterm elections.

Health care has always been a good issue for Republicans, but Democrats aren't there yet.

RAJU: Yeah.

And as we go to break, I just want to point out that the Senate is in this weekend. The house has not been in since September 19th. Look at the calendar on your screen. This is a strategic decision by the speaker of the House to keep the House out of session, pressured Democrats in the Senate to vote for the Republican plan to reopen the government. They have not done that. So as a result, the House has not been in session. Those days in

white, those are the days the House has not been in session all of August. That was the summer break last week of July. All of October. And now were getting into the second week of November and they are not going to be in session just 22 days. The house has been in session since July. That is beginning of July.

That is remarkable. I've never seen anything quite like that. And undercuts, of course, the agenda they're trying to push ahead here.

All right. We're going to discuss that and much, much more.

Coming up, why is President Trump downplaying the biggest message voters sent him last Tuesday?

And Gavin Newsom takes a victory lap.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D), CALIFORNIA: That's Donald Trump. And he had a very bad night on Tuesday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:17:58]

RAJU: The biggest takeaway for Democrats after their sweep in Tuesday's elections was that the issue of affordability is resonating the most with voters, so that must mean President Trump also heard that message loud and clear -- not so much.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If you look at affordability which they campaigned on, they lied because they talked about all prices are up. No, no prices are down under the Trump administration. And they're down substantially. Inflation is way down the big.

The biggest thing is inflation. The second biggest thing is energy. Energy is way down. And what's also down, gasoline. Affordability, they call it, was a con job by the -- by the Democrats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: All right. My panel is back.

Look, Trump can say what he wants. The question is how do Americans feel the top issue for voters in according to CNN exit poll in these key states that had the elections last week was the economy. Perhaps not surprisingly, but in California, New Jersey, New York City, Virginia all ranked as a top issue.

And then you ask nationally how people feel about Trump's policies. Not good for him. And, of course, Democrats, 95 percent of Democrats say not good. But the independent number is the concerning one if you're a Republican, 67 percent of independents say Trump's policies have made the economy worse.

So, he can say what he wants, but voters feel differently.

WEIGEL: Yes. And in New Jersey and Virginia, both Democrats ran on that from the beginning. In their first ads in the primary, then in the summer, or I should say, the summer Spanberger won without a primary were about affordability, were about job loss -- job losses. And Mikie Sherrill had a plan to freeze electricity rates.

Think of who they were, too. These are both House Democrats who voted for every significant Biden bill. So, you would watch in both states, Republicans come back and say, oh, Abigail Spanberger voted for inflation. Mikie Sherrill voted for the -- this boondoggle that Biden -- Biden pushed forward.

And it didn't matter. It hurt -- they're discovering that because prices did not go down, because they went up significantly. People do not care who was president a year ago. People don't blame Biden anymore.

They've forgotten he exists to an extent. And Democrats, because they turned every issue back to affordability, were convincing.

[08:20:02]

Republicans tried to change conversation multiple times with much more kind of hot button stories. It did not work because every -- every question you asked Sherrill or Spanberger was back to energy costs. Cost of food, effective tariffs.

RAJU: Yeah. And obviously, Trump does not see that as the issue. But are there warning signs for Republicans after Tuesday?

This is what the CNN exit polls showed about New Jersey. New Jersey exit polls here. Mikie Sherrill -- and these are among voters who did not vote for Kamala Harris in 2020 for Sherrill picked up the Democrat 13 percent of all non-Harris voters. That includes 22 percent of male voters under 30. Of course, Harris struggled with that group.

Latino voters, 27 percent of voters who did not -- again, they did not. These are the voters who did not vote for Harris, who are Latino. They -- Sherrill picked up 27 percent of the voters and all voters under 30. So, she made inroads with younger voters as well.

This is one state.

ALVAREZ: Yeah.

RAJU: But should Republicans be more concerned broadly?

ALVAREZ: Well, and if you look at the down ballot races, two Democrats also had some wins. So taken together, that is why they had their victory lap last week. Look, the Latino voters is interesting. Having covered the campaign,

the Harris campaign, because they desperately wanted to peel off those Latino voters, which have been moving more to the right. And they did have some gain with that on Tuesday's elections. But -- and the big but is that those moves aren't permanent, and that is going to be what they're going to have to continue to do.

And oftentimes it is the criticism among Democratic Latinos, which is that they are -- they are looked at as a given. And that was certainly a part of the problem when it came to the Harris campaign, and particularly when they're only looked through the vacuum of immigration policies and these economic numbers matter to them, too, sometimes more than whatever is happening on the in the immigration space.

So I think the Latino voter is a place to watch, especially with how Democrats keep coming after them and how the Republicans keep coming after them because they have been leaning more Republican. The question is, can more of them peel off for Democrats come the midterms?

RAJU: No question about that. And speaking of the midterms, the issue of redistricting, of course, came up last Tuesday. California, one that Democrats won that big ballot initiative they have now the potential of picking up five more seats after they gerrymandered districts to help their party in next November.

And if you look at the overall picture in this district by state, by state, fight over redistricting, remember, this is really unprecedented. It's an arms race of sorts to gerrymander states to help the parties. Typically, that happens at the beginning of a decade now happening mid-decade.

But overall here, Republicans still have an edge. If everything goes their way, about a 12 seat pickup here. But Democrats are chipping away if things go well, we'll see -- there's some questions about Maryland and Illinois if they'll get what they want here.

But potentially they have up to 11 seats here. So how are Democrats feeling about this right now? Because there were huge fears about what happened in Texas when Trump pushed them to get five Republican seats. But now they're kind of whittling away district by district, state by state.

CALDWELL: Well, redistricting is not a given of a party winning a seat. So, Democrats are feeling much better, not only after California, but also after Tuesday's election results, too, because it is showing that that these seats that Republicans are making more red are not necessarily a guarantee, especially in a place like Texas. So, Democrats feel like they are able to fight in a lot of these seats that have been redistricted.

Plus, they're also looking to their own maps to gain additional seats. You know, this is part of the reason that some Republicans, especially House Republicans, didn't want this redistricting to move forward, not only because -- because it's no guarantee. They're worried that in a, you know, midterm election that could be bad for Republicans, that this could actually backfire.

GOLDBERG: Well, just one other part of the point of doing these redistricting things is when you gerrymander, let's say you take a plus ten Republicans, district, part of doing this stuff makes it not like maybe a plus five. You're giving up some of your, you know, safe voters to make the other place more competitive.

When we saw those numbers about where independents are, right. Also, and I think you're exactly right about Hispanics, Hispanics, as a broad generalization, were voting to restore the economy of 2019. That's what they were nostalgic for. That's what they associated Trump with.

If all of a sudden, all those people are in play and you've made Republican districts less Republican in order to make some Democratic districts now competitive, if you get the right kind of tide, it could end up not only not winning those seats that you've made, you think you've made Republicans. You could lose some seats that you thought were once safe Republicans, too.

RAJU: Yeah. And that's why members hate redistricting fights, because it takes away their territory and their perch, and they could actually lose their seats as a result of it.

[08:25:05]

Gavin Newsom is making victory, taking a victory lap here. He was down in Texas yesterday rallying Democrats down there. What does this do? It's very likely going to run in 2020. What does the victory in California mean for him potentially come at 2028 run.

WEIGEL: He made a big bet and it paid off. And he already had a lot of credibility with Democratic voters. That maybe is not matched by D.C. Democrats who look at Newsom and see a California to have to defend every single policy in that state. Do you want to run on California gas taxes in Ohio? Probably not.

But he -- all year, he spent the first couple months of the year doing this podcast, figuring out how right wingers beat him. Basically, he came back much more aggressively and won. That's what it means. Just if you are looking at 2028, there's one Democrat who had a great election that was entirely about his personal decision to remake the state, it paid off.

RAJU: All right. We'll see. He'll face a crowded field if he runs. And I'm sure we can all expect that.

And for more on Newsom, Jake Tapper spoke one on one with him during his visit to Texas yesterday. Catch that interview on "STATE OF THE UNION" in the next hour.

Next, will 2026 look anything like 2025? Well, suddenly, Democrats see a path to the Senate majority. I spoke exclusively with the woman steering the party through a slew of very messy primaries.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [08:30:54]

RAJU: Senate Democrats started this election cycle in the doldrums with a daunting map to overcome in their quest for the Senate majority.

That path is still very narrow, but Democrats now see an opening bolstered in no small part by Tuesday's election victories. This after they already landed big recruits in key races. Although messy primaries could derail their ambitions.

And new this morning, I spoke exclusively with the chief of the Democrats' Senate campaign arm, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand. She tells me control of the chamber, in her view, is definitely in play.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU: So Tuesday's election results, what do you think that means for your party's ability to take back the Senate?

SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D-NY): I think Tuesday election results were a huge repudiation of Trump's policies. His policies that have cut health care for millions of people; policies that have raised costs on groceries, housing, affordability across the board.

And our candidates spoke about a very different approach about how to get those costs down. And voters were supportive. It shows a growing backlash against Republicans and Trump's policies. And I think it's a wave that is growing for Democratic candidates.

RAJU: Yes. Obviously you have a very difficult map. Do you -- what is the likelihood of getting back in the majority?

GILLIBRAND: I think there's no seat that's off the table right now. I think this growing backlash is fueling a lot of really formidable candidates to take on incumbents and open seats across the country.

RAJU: What about -- you know, you also have several messy primaries. Maine, one of them, you also have Michigan. Texas is emerging as one. Does that concern you as you look at the majority?

GILLIBRAND: No. The most important thing is to have a strong candidate who understands their state, who understands the difficulties people are facing because they can't afford health care and they can't afford food and they can't afford housing.

And the candidates that can speak to those conditions and understand their states, they're going to win. They're the ones who will deliver these seats.

And that's what we saw on Tuesday. You saw it in the governors' races. You saw it in small elections across the country. The people that were able to talk about affordability and talk about it authentically are the candidates that voters supported.

RAJU: Bernie Sanders said that he believes that what happened on Tuesday was really an emboldening of the left flank of the party. Do you see that the people that he's endorsing, like a Graham Platner, other people who are in that mold, that they're the ones who may be more formidable come next November?

GILLIBRAND: I think what the election results show us is that the candidates that focused on the issues that voters care about -- access to health care, affordability of costs, whether it's health care costs or food and housing -- those candidates broke through. And those candidates are all across the spectrum.

You look at the win in Virginia. You look at the win in New Jersey. Those candidates ran more moderate campaigns, but they ran it on affordability.

And so I think, again, if candidates understand what voters are going through, that is the secret sauce for success.

RAJU: Are you worried about the new mayor of your state, of your city -- Zohran Mamdani?

(CROSSTALKING)

GILLIBRAND: Not at all. I called him to congratulate him. He ran his campaign on affordability, which again, is the issue of the moment. And it's a backlash against Trump. Trump's policies are rising prices for everybody.

RAJU: The Republicans are going to try to tie Mamdani to Democrats. That's not an issue for you?

GILLIBRAND: I don't think so, because at the end of the day, he's talking about affordability. And that's what all our candidates across the country have talked about in this last election.

The through line is an understanding of what voters are going through and being able to articulate that effectively.

And that's why we had wins across the board. We won everywhere -- red, purple, blue across the board.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU: All right. My panel is back to break down the reality of taking back the Senate for the Democrats.

Just take a look at the map here. Remember, Democrats had to pick up four seats. That may sound easy. It is not easy.

[08:34:43]

RAJU: And they have difficult races ahead. They have to beat Susan Collins of Maine, not an easy situation there. North Carolina, a difficult state for Democrats. And then they have to win in red states like perhaps in an Ohio, perhaps in Texas.

And then you have to defend a state like Georgia. Not to mention Michigan and New Hampshire.

It is a difficult road. But what she is saying there, she believes the anti-Trump backlash will be enough in some of these -- even these red states.

LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, PUCK CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well we'll see. It's a year away. A lot could happen. But one thing in Georgia -- another thing that people -- Democrats are really excited about is when you look at Georgia, two Democrats flipped statewide seats there and for a public service commission --

(CROSSTALKING)

RAJU: This Tuesday.

CALDWELL: -- this last Tuesday. And so that is one of the things that Democrats are most excited about. And especially in Georgia, where there's a messy Republican primary there for the Senate seat.

So there's a lot of good things for Democrats. But a year is years in eternity.

RAJU: And you've been on the ground in some of these states where there are messy Democratic primaries. And this is just some of the ones that Democrats have to deal with -- in Maine, in Michigan and in Texas and some of the states.

You've seen the Bernie Sanders type candidates in Maine and Michigan getting behind some of those candidates. The party leaders are in a different spot, especially when it comes to a state like Maine.

Joe Biden (ph) discounted the fact that there's any sort of ideological divide within the party. But what we learned on Tuesday that there very much is and that could play out in the midterms and be a problem in the general election for Democrats.

DAVID WEIGEL, SEMAFOR NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: There definitely is. But once they're the nominees, it matters what kind of fight they had in the primary. Is it -- if you look at Michigan, which is a very messy primary and every poll shows it's a three-way tie, the disagreements are basically over who does or doesn't take corporate PAC money, who doesn't take -- whether you support Medicare for all or not, a couple of important differences.

But in the Republican primaries, it is a rush to support Donald Trump and a theme that I heard from talking to the campaign pollsters for Spanberger and Sherrill is that Republicans are not making themselves robust enough for an electorate that doesn't like Trump.

So every Republican, with the exception of Maine with Susan Collins, the winner in Georgia is going to win by being the most pro-Trump candidate getting his endorsement. The winner in Texas is going for Trump's endorsement.

They go to the general election defending the entire Trump record. And the theme is actually -- it's a bit of an inversion, I'm not trying to be too pat about this, of the most effective 2024 ad. That ad was Trump's -- sorry -- Kamala's for they/them Trump's for you.

And the message in these states was my Republican opponent is for him, is for Trump. I'm for you. He's going to defend him. He's never going to stand up for your job. He's never going to stand for infrastructure.

They think whatever their primaries are like, they're going to end up in a stronger position making that argument to the electorate than Republicans are.

RAJU: Yes, but you know, you've seen this happen in other election cycles on the GOP side, most recently when it was a Tea Party-inspired candidate beating an establishment-backed candidate and then becoming problems for the GOP in the general. Could this happen now on the Democratic side next year?

JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think the short answer is we don't know, right. This is one of the problems with the elections this week was all the Democrats -- everyone, you know, so you can't say, well, you know, if Jay Jones, the embattled guy who texted about how he wants to see some Republicans' kids murdered, he wins outdoing Kamala Harris' performance in Virginia.

The social, you know, the Democratic socialist wins. The normies soccer mom candidates -- they all won. So no one has a narrative about other than affordability and not liking Donald Trump.

And it may turn out that in 2026, the need for a more refined, nuanced message than just those broad platitudinous things is required. And we can't get it from the tea leaves.

RAJU: And running on the anti-Trump backlash, we'll see if it works. Look at the polls of Donald Trump a year out from the midterms historically. I mean, look, he's at the bottom, 37 percent right now for Trump, only better than Trump from 2017, worse than Biden in 2021.

It's going to be a challenge for Republicans, too, because Trump demands loyalty at all costs. But some of these candidates in these swing states and districts are going to have to show some distance from him.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, and in Georgia, it was energy costs that were a big part of that election, too. And affordability is something that we saw can get quite complicated at the White House and how the president talks about it.

And we also saw in New York, Stefanik launched her campaign video, and she did not mention Trump. She talks about affordability.

(CROSSTALKING)

RAJU: Even though she's MAGA as it comes.

ALVAREZ: Exactly. So yes, a long time to go between now and then. But how they start to separate and how Democrats start to refine the messaging, that will be -- those will be the questions. RAJU: Yes, no question about it. A lot to discuss and a lot to digest

in a hugely significant election ahead, right.

Up next, Tucker Carlson hosts a white supremacist on his podcast. And now the conservative movement is at war with itself. That after a quick break.

[08:39:45]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RAJU: The fallout in the days since Tucker Carlson held a friendly interview with an outspoken white nationalist is revealing a deeper split within the MAGA movement.

Many conservatives were quick to denounce Carlson's decision to platform 27-year-old Nick Fuentes, who has a history of spewing bigoted and anti-Semitic rhetoric. Yet others defended him or stayed silent.

So what does that tell us about the direction of the MAGA movement?

[08:44:49]

RAJU: My panel is back.

Jonah, your publication, "The Dispatch" had a piece about this just on Friday. I want to read a piece of that.

It says "Conservatives are at the moment in a prolonged fight about the political right's post-Donald Trump future, centered around this specific question. Will traditional conservatism merely evolve into a more populist movement? Or will it be supplanted by something much darker and illiberal, a blood and soil nationalism in which even neo- Nazis are welcome as fellow travelers?

GOLDBERG: Yes.

Look, the piece by John McCormick and Mike Warren was a great piece. We're going to have more on all of this coming.

In the intro you introduced, you identified Fuentes as a white nationalist, which he is. But I think part of the problem is people are so appalled by what he says that we kind of euphemize it.

He has literally said he's on Team Hitler, right. So that cuts through a lot of like the, you know, what -- how do we label them kind of thing.

And I think ultimately this is more about Tucker Carlson than it is about Nick Fuentes. And it's more about JD Vance and the future of the Republican Party than it is about Tucker.

The Heritage Foundation has decided to no longer be at management level -- there are a lot of good people there, but the Heritage Foundation, this storied Washington think tank, has decided to embrace this kind of nationalist, populist, very online Tucker Carlson adjacent kind of thing -- kind of approach.

And Tucker Carlson helped pick JD Vance as vice president. And so a lot of this is a proxy war over what kind of party it's going to be, and whether or not JD Vance is the future of the party.

That's not all of it. It's also just like, are our institutions going to draw a line and say, you know, people on Team Hitler can't be part of it? And it's amazing how difficult that question is to answer for some people.

RAJU: Yes. And Vance and Trump have said very little about this.

WEIGEL: Very little, that's right. And I think a defining moment this first year was "Wall Street Journal" exposing a DOGE member's racist, anti-Indian posts and Vance saying hiring (ph) back the media is not allowed to cancel people anymore.

I think that's the principle running through administration. And you get it because they don't want to return to a 2019 status quo where somebody says something and it offends liberal tastemakers and they lose their job, you get where its coming from.

Can they have gotten over their skis with that and started to embrace people and ideas that would be outside the bounds of the party any other time in its history? That is the risk.

And Democrats looking at this, they do have their challenges with Mamdani and the Israel critics in their movement. They don't have people in the movement saying Jewish liberals are destroying society from within. This is a different thing that Jonah's talking about.

RAJU: Yes. And you've heard some folks on the right denounce that, including Senator Ted Cruz of Texas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Listen, we've seen, in the last year Tucker Carlson in particular, spread a poison that is profoundly dangerous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: I mean, Cruz has his own history with Tucker Carlson, but those are pretty strong comments.

CALDWELL: Yes, he does, but this is also getting back to 2028. Ted Cruz is positioning himself as kind of the anti-JD Vance, the anti- populist, the "stand for Israel" wing of the party.

And so, you know, there's much bigger political implications. And where the party moves is embedded and intertwined in all of this as Jonah was saying.

RAJU: Yes. And there's a lot of personal animosity between Cruz and Carlson. I was in the Capitol on Thursday, and he was holding court, attacking that decision to platform Nick Fuentes. All right. Coming up, gavel drop. Former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is

retiring after almost four decades in Congress. I take a look back at my interactions with the trailblazing leader. That's next.

[08:48:35]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RAJU: Nancy Pelosi, the first and only female speaker of the House, leaves behind a legacy on Capitol Hill like few others before her. Leading two impeachment of a sitting president, ushering through sweeping legislation like Obamacare, and keeping her caucus in line in no small part by instilling fear among her rank and file.

So what was it like questioning Pelosi when she was at the pinnacle of her power? Well, let's just say she was never afraid to shut down a question she didn't like as I experienced many times firsthand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Speaker Pelosi, but you have long said that there's no point in moving forward with an impeachment inquiry because Republicans control the Senate. It's going to die in the Senate. Is that no longer your chief concern?

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER EMERITA: I have not said that. I have never long said that. If we have a case for impeachment, that's the place we will have to go.

RAJU: Did you actually say that the president -- you would rather see him in prison.

PELOSI: Than when we have conversations in our caucus, they stay in our caucus.

RAJU: Do you think they are?

PELOSI: But that's not the -- I'm here to talk about --

(CROSSTALKING)

RAJU: And we will -- we will get into that. I promise we will get --

(CROSSTALKING)

PELOSI: I'm not going to that place of what happens within our caucus.

Yes.

(INAUDIBLE)

RAJU: -- months ago. Because I was not going to accept half of a loaf.

(CROSSTALKING)

RAJU: But now -- PELOSI: Don't characterize what we did before as a mistake, as a

preface to your question if you want an answer.

Thank you all very much.

RAJU: Why is it better than the Mnuchin proposal? He proposed $1.8 trillion.

How are things?

PELOSI: Terrible. Couldn't be worse.

RAJU: I'm sorry to hear that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:54:48]

RAJU: Pelosi still has 14 months left in office. And perhaps time for more moments like the one behind me.

That's it for INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. You can follow me on X @mkraju. Follow the show @INSIDEPOLITICS. You can also follow me on TikTok and on Instagram.

And remember, in the United States, you can now stream INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY live or catch up later on the CNN app and just visit CNN.com/watch for more.

Up next "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JAKE TAPPER AND DANA BASH". Jake's guests include California Governor Gavin Newsom and Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy.

And coming up next week, a new "CNN FILM: "PRIME MINISTER", will take an intimate look into the extraordinary political career and life of New Zealand's former prime minister, Jacinda Ardern. That will premiere next Sunday at 9:00 on CNN and the next day on the CNN app.

Thanks again for sharing your Sunday morning with us. We'll see you next time.

[08:55:41]

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