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Two National Guard Members In Critical Condition After Shooting; Trump Calls NYT Female Reporter "Ugly" After Report On His Age; One-On-One With Former New Zealand PM Jacinda Ardern. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired November 27, 2025 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:30:00]

PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: On their prognosis. You know, they both came through surgery. I'm not going to talk about their conditions right now. I know their families are with them.

I'd like to add something about the young woman, she volunteered to be there on Thanksgiving, working today. She volunteered, as did many of those guardsmen and women, so other people could be home with their families.

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AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: I want to bring in CNN's Gabe Cohen now. He's in Martinsburg, West Virginia, outside the National Guard base where one of those members were based. And Gabe, first off, can you talk about what you're learning about these service members and their deployment?

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, first of all, Audie, we have heard from folks about both of them that they were both very proud to serve their country, to serve as part of this mission. We've learned who they were, or who they are, I should say. 24-year-old Staff Sergeant Andrew Wolfe of Martinsburg, as you mentioned, that's the area where we are, as well as 20-year-old U.S. Army Specialist Sarah Beckstrom.

So this is where Andrew Wolfe is based, the 167th Airlift Wing, as we pan you can see the base behind me. We're in this very rural area here in West Virginia but we're only about 80 miles, Audie, from Washington D.C., from the place where this shooting happened.

And we have talked to people in this community who know Andrew Wolfe. We talked to his neighbor, who shares a duplex with him, who described him as jolly, as someone who's been proud to serve in the National Guard, but also somebody who would give the shirt off his back to his friends, to his neighbor. Somebody who just cared about his community around him.

We have also learned a little bit more about Sarah Beckstrom, you heard Jeanine Pirro there say that she volunteered for this mission. In fact, both of them had been part of this operation in D.C. since the very beginning, since August. But this has really hit the community here in West Virginia extremely hard, even though, in many ways, it feels like a mile away, at least here in Martinsburg.

We were at the local diner this morning, where people were saying, you know, through one degree, through two degrees of separation, they all seem to know each other. They know who these people are. Sarah Beckstrom from about four hours down the road in Webster Springs, and yet, people here were saying, she feels like family today, on Thanksgiving, when families are coming together.

So many people here feeling for the two families now, struck with grief, praying for Andrew and Sarah.

CORNISH: OK. Thank you so much, Gabe, from West Virginia there.

All right, next we're going to talk about use of words like insubordinate, or piggy, or ugly inside and out, because those are just some of the terms the President has said to female journalists just in the last few weeks. We're going to talk about that after the break.

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[12:37:23]

CORNISH: It's been kind of a rough patch for female journalists covering the Trump administration. Just yesterday, President Trump called a reporter from the New York Times, quote, "ugly both inside and out" after a story she wrote about his age and stamina.

Now, he said nothing about the male reporter on the byline. And it's at least the third time he's attacked a female journalist who covers him in just this month.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, why wait for Congress to release the Epstein files? Why not just do it now?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, it's not the question that I mind. It's your attitude. I think you are a terrible reporter. It's the way you ask these questions. You start off with a man who's highly respected, asking him a horrible, insubordinate, and just a terrible question.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir --

TRUMP: Yes, Jennifer. Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- if there's nothing incriminating in the files, sir, why not act --

TRUMP: Quiet. Quiet, piggy.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CORNISH: So those moments prompted a new piece in The Atlantic by Sophie Gilbert. It's titled, "President Piggy." This is what consequence-free misogyny looks like.

Sophie joins me now. Happy Thanksgiving. Thanks for being here with us, Sophie.

SOPHIE GILBERT, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Hi, Happy Thanksgiving.

CORNISH: One of the things we heard from the White House, particularly in that statement about calling someone ugly, is they said President Trump has never been politically correct, and this has nothing to do with gender. And I want you to respond to that, because of course you're saying it's straight-out misogyny.

GILBERT: I don't think it's true that it's nothing to do with gender, because this is something that he's been doing for decades. He's called women pigs. He's called them dogs. He famously called Stormy Daniel horseface. He once compared Nancy Pelosi to a bed bug.

These kind of personal attacks tend to come out whenever he feels like someone, but specifically a woman, is challenging him or not being deferential enough. I mean, obviously he has insults for everyone, but there's something particularly about when women seem to be holding him to account or to asking him questions or not being obsequious in quite the way that he wants that does provoke these sort of very personal and intentionally humiliating insults.

CORNISH: I wanted to talk about this because one of the people who has been talking about it in recent days, Bill Maher. He was interviewing Lara Trump. And, you know, Maher is known as Mr., like, Politically Incorrect, right? Like, that's the brand. But here's how he talked about it.

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BILL MAHER, WRITER AND COMEDIAN: Here I I'm --

LARA TRUMP, DAUGHTER OF DONALD TRUMP: What they have to do with these people?

MAHER: -- working on this editorial for Friday, all about how it's mostly liberals --

L. TRUMP: And then --

MAHER: -- who have to, like, get over yourselves --

L. TRUMP: Yes.

MAHER: -- eat with your family, even the ones who are Trump voters, OK?

L. TRUMP: Even the Trump voters.

MAHER: Even the Trump voters. L. TRUMP: Yes.

MAHER: It just makes my job more difficult when during this week he says to a woman, piggy. I mean, even you must admit, this is just not cool, not necessary.

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[12:40:17]

CORNISH: She didn't have to admit that and she did not. But I wanted to play it for you because in a way, is that a good sign, right? Instead of someone saying, oh, why are they talking about this? You had even someone like Bill Maher that's like, look, why play to type? Why play to this idea of what people think Trump is?

GILBERT: Yes, I think the response has actually been really interesting because if -- it sometimes feels at this point that there's not much that Trump can do that's still shocking. We're sort of immune to so much. But this insult really resonated. And I think it resonated firstly among women because every woman alive, I bet, has had some experience of being humiliated with an insult like this.

We remember what it feels like. And that's something that you never forget. You feel it to your core. But especially, I mean, what might be affecting people like Bill Maher is this is something that our children would get in trouble for if our bosses spoke to us this way, they would get fired. And so to see the most powerful man in the world acting like this, it seems to say something specific about how far we've fallen.

CORNISH: Democrats have been trying to embrace a more sort of punchier vision of themselves. And the way that looks is you had Governor Newsom using quiet, piggy, right, as a joke, trolling other social media personalities and, of course, trolling the President himself with various posts about that. I bring it up because I think when you pull it out of the partisan thing, it feels like it just opens the door for everyone to use this language everywhere.

GILBERT: It does. And also, I think it's about distraction. Like when we're talking about the awful things that he said to reporters over the last few days or the last few weeks, we're not talking about the stories that those women reporting, which, you know, one story by Katie Rogers was about how Trump keeps falling asleep in public and how he's, you know, limited his work hours from 12 to 5.

And the question that provoked him so much on Air Force One was about whether there was anything in the Epstein files that was incriminating towards him personally. And so this is or it does all feel like it's distracting us from other things that we should be talking about. But at the same time, I understand why this is -- this feels like such a grievous insult that people can't quite let it go.

CORNISH: No, that's a great point, because immediately people started sort of Googling to be like, oh, well, let me look at this person and see if that's a fitting description, which is like kind of missing the point.

GILBERT: Right. Right. It just perpetuates it.

CORNISH: Any good news in this otherwise very gloomy situation, frankly, which isn't just about women reporters, right?

GILBERT: I mean, I think the outrage has been really positive. Like I said, we sort of beyond being provoked or being shocked even by anything that Trump can say or do. But the way that this insult has landed in the way that so many people, even Bill Maher to his credit, have rejected it.

It sort of draws a line that I think is quite useful in this moment when there is so much more cultural normalization of misogyny online and so much really unabashed abusive women. It's helpful to have these lines drawn about what is still acceptable in mainstream discourse at least.

CORNISH: OK. Sophie Gilbert, you can catch her writing in The Atlantic. Sophie, thanks so much.

GILBERT: Thank you so much.

CORNISH: Next, former New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern was the world's youngest female prime minister, and I spoke to her about authenticity in politics and how motherhood changed her career.

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JACINDA ARDERN, FORMER NEW ZEALAND PRIME MINISTER: She's two weeks old today. In the back of my mind, I'm thinking, how am I going to juggle all of these things while still serving at work?

I remember how hard it felt. But I also just wish that I could have told myself that actually it's -- it'll be easier from here.

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[12:48:22]

CORNISH: The former New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern led her country through some of its greatest crises. The Christchurch mass shooting, a deadly volcano eruption, and a global pandemic. And through it all, her own personal life became part of the story. And that story is now captured in the CNN film called "Prime Minister."

Now, I got a chance to interview her. She's at Oxford University. And I wanted to talk about how she put parenting in the spotlight. What comes next for her politically. And what she's teaching a new generation of young politicians. One of those things is how to be vulnerable.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ARDERN: We might have just put up too much of a wall and lost our sense that you can actually still be a human being in these jobs. In fact, we need you to be a human being in these jobs. And voters will be a little more accepting of that than I think we give them credit for.

CORNISH: I think a lot of politicians in the U.S. like they're now frequently being more called on it. Called out. You're not very authentic. You're not fun to be around. You're not this. It's like people are more willing to say that this is a requirement also of being a politician. Is coming across like a person.

ARDERN: If we want good people to run for public office, I think we have to show that you can be human.

CORNISH: Yes.

ARDERN: Because otherwise people will think I'll make mistakes, I won't get everything right, and there's no space for that in politics.

CORNISH: And you get picked apart.

I feel like the one thing you can't be in public office, or even in public, is vulnerable, admitting to failings. Like apologies are even sort of rare now.

[12:50:05]

ARDERN: Yes, I understand that, you know, we have a perspective now certainly as politicians where we think that there's some areas that are no-goes. That if you change, for instance, a policy decision. That will be framed.

If you go out and say, look, we made this decision initially, we've seen the impact it's had or we've heard the public on it, we are reversing that decision. Now, I think two things happen with that. It will be framed as a flip-flop, a reversal, a back down, but it's also listening.

It's humility. It's contrition. It's -- in some ways you could call it democracy.

CORNISH: I don't want to be the person who asks you about your family, OK? And having a baby in office. However --

ARDERN: Oh, you know what? I was only the second woman in the world. You know, I feel, no, I have no grudge over the fact that I talk about these things. I think it comes naturally with there being so few. I'm the only living leader to have had a baby in office.

CORNISH: Looking back, I sort of forgot how it all played out, you know, even just announcing the pregnancy in front of your home.

ARDERN: Oh look. Well, this is normal.

Welcome, everyone, for a somewhat unusual announcement. Clarke and I are really excited to share. In June, we're looking forward to welcoming our first child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you considered getting married?

ARDERN: Clarke?

CORNISH: Yes, steps in front of your home. I was like, you need a fence. Why is the press so close to your front door?

ARDERN: Well, there's in fact. We had a fence. But a very small front yard.

CORNISH: Yes, very clear.

ARDERN: And so they were all really wedged in there. So that is fair.

CORNISH: And right away, it was like, are you getting married?

ARDERN: Yes.

CORNISH: Are you -- it was like being at Thanksgiving with an -- a nosy aunt.

ARDERN: Yes, yes.

CORNISH: Only the nosy aunts were like the national media --

ARDERN: Yes, yes.

CORNISH: -- asking these questions that felt very personal. And how was it for you and your partner? Like you turned back in the house and was it awkward or were you still sort of joyful?

ARDERN: Yes, I mean, I remember feeling joyful, but I also remember holding our breath slightly. Because, you know, I write about this. I lost my instincts through that period. I just did not know what the response would be. And it's not like I could canvas around and ask people because it was a secret.

So I just had to literally wait and see. And we were overwhelmed in the end by the warmth and the positivity. Yes.

CORNISH: Once you give birth, now you're doing the job and also doing the part of newborn and baby.

He's two weeks old today. In the back of my mind, I'm thinking just how am I going to juggle all of these things while still serving at work.

I remember how it felt. I remember how hard it felt. But I also just wish that I could have told myself actually it's it -- it'll be easier from here. You know, it'll be OK.

And this is not your first test as a mother and you haven't failed it. There'll be a lot -- there's a lot more tests to come.

What are you aware to resign? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which is going to come as a shock to just about everyone.

ARDERN: I don't know. I suppose so. There was no single moment. There was just -- this overwhelming feeling that that if something else happened, something else, it was big or difficult that I wouldn't have enough in the tank to do a good job.

CORNISH: When you first resigned, what was the feeling that you had?

ARDERN: Certainly not that something was over. You know, I --

CORNISH: But was it relief? Was it freedom? Was it --

ARDERN: Yes, I mean, I -- firstly --

CORNISH: -- exhaustion?

ARDERN: Firstly, I frame myself as being more mid-career rather than (INAUDIBLE). But, yes, I mean, to a certain extent, there was -- you know, there's no question that when you carry the responsibility of leadership and all of the unknowns that come with it, that at any given day, you could wake up and a new crisis could arrive.

At the moment, you don't have that mantle of responsibility. That is very freeing. And you do feel that automatically lift. But I think if you're someone that just wants to be useful in the world and, you know, I'm pretty earnest, so I guess, you know, I'm one of those people, then that since that you have to keep going and find the next thing that doesn't leave you.

[12:55:04]

And so, yes, I closed a chapter. But I'm certainly, you know, certainly constantly looking for the next one.

CORNISH: Yes.

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CORNISH: OK. You can actually watch a full film, it's the CNN film documentary, it's called "Prime Minister." That's on CNN's All Access streaming.

And we had a full conversation. We could also hear online. One of the many on my podcast. It's called, "The Assignment with Audie Cornish." Get it where you get your podcast.

And I want to thank you for joining Inside Politics today. I hope you're having a wonderful Thanksgiving.

CNN News Central starts after this break.

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