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Sources: FBI Makes Arrest In 2021 D.C. Pipe Bomb Case; Rep. Himes: Video Is "One Of The Most Troubling Things I've Seen"; Trump Says He Stands Behind Hegseth And Bipartisan Criticism; Today: CDC Advisers May Vote To Push Back Hepatitis B Shot. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired December 04, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: A classified briefing rattles Capitol Hill as a top lawmaker calls the double tap strike video, quote, one of the most troubling things he's ever seen in his entire career.

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

We have a lot of breaking news to bring you this hour. You're looking now at live pictures from Woodbridge, Virginia, the home of a man arrested this morning in the D.C. pipe bomber case. I'm talking about a pipe bomb left outside of the DNC and the RNC offices just hours before January 6, 2021, fortunately, they never went off.

Now we're going to get to that investigation in a moment, but we're going to start with breaking news on Capitol Hill. Admiral Frank Bradley and Joint Chiefs Chairman, the General, Dan Caine. They are briefing top senators right now on the disputed boat strike, some are calling a war crime. Killing two survivors of an initial attack that disabled the boat and killed most of the crew in the first strike.

Now Admiral Bradley and General Caine are making the case that those survivors appeared to be radioing for help and could have continued trafficking drugs, which made them legitimate targets. Congressman Jim Himes, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, was in the morning briefing. He came out and said that's not what he saw on the video of the second strike.

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REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): What I saw in that room was one of the most troubling things I've seen in my time in public service. You have two individuals in clear distress without any means of locomotion with a destroyed vessel who are killed by the United States. Any American who sees the video that I saw will see the United States military attacking shipwrecked sailors, bad guys, bad guys, but attacking shipwrecked sailors.

Now there's a whole set of contextual items that the admiral explained. Yes, they were carrying drugs. They were not in the position to continue their mission in any way. The last thing I'm going to say is that the admiral confirmed that there had not been a kill them all order, and that there was not an order to grant no quarter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I'm joined here by a terrific group of reporters. And Phil Mattingly, I'll start with you. And as I do, I want to put up what the Republican chair of the committee, the House Intelligence Committee, said. His name is Rick Crawford, and he said, quote, I feel confident and have no further questions of Hegseth.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: What you heard from Congressman Himes and what you see in that statement don't necessarily say different things, nor do they contradict one another, nor do they diverge from one another in terms of what the underlying issue is and what the underlying briefing showed, told and displayed for lawmakers on Capitol Hill today.

I think it actually kind of is a good window into the ambiguity that exists based on the policy that's been pursued, based on the targeting and taking out of these boats, the lack of information related to the underlying, or underpinning Office of Legal Counsel opinion that guides it. And the limited amounts of information, plus limited -- significantly limited amounts of precedent that we've seen in the past for these types of actions.

Now, to be very clear, past administrations have done similar things in other conflicts or other conflict zones, that in large part made all of this possible, or at least plausible. However, there are just a ton of questions. And I think the biggest one, at least immediately, when you listen to Congressman Himes is, is the video going to come out. Are the American people going to be able to see it?

BASH: And Jamie, as Congressman Himes was leaving, somebody asked, do you want the public to see this video? And his answer, yes.

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. I think we all need to see this video to answer exactly the questions that that Phil was talking about. Look, the other thing that we have heard up until now, and let's see now that, you know, these members have seen the video. We have heard the words bipartisan criticism. That means Republican criticism.

And one of the questions I have is what this means for Secretary of Defense Hegseth going forward. You know, President Trump never admit you're wrong, never back down. But the secretary of defense has become a walking controversy, and you really have to ask, when is enough, too much?

[12:05:00]

BASH: Yeah. And we're going to get into the other controversy that has resurfaced because -- actually, let's do that now, because of an independent -- excuse me, an inspector general report that has come out of the Pentagon. I want to go back to Zach Cohen, who broke the news, as CNN did. First here yesterday on this program about the reporting from the classified report, you know how the unclassified report that was released by the Pentagon? ZACHARY COHEN, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yeah, Dana, that's right. And largely it confirms exactly what we reported yesterday, including details about how and a conclusion that Pete Hegseth risk compromising sensitive military information that could have endangered U.S. troops and jeopardize mission objectives by sending information about that military operation targeting the Houthi rebels in Yemen to other Trump officials via signal.

It also points to his use of his personal cell phone, as well as the presence in that group chat that signal group chat of reporter Jeffrey Goldberg as a major problem and is highly critical of excess, broader use of signal and his personal devices. And it goes on to say that he determined that he violated multiple DoD policies in doing so.

I mean, on the first point, the IG writes, quote, the secretary's actions created a risk to operational security that could have resulted in failed U.S. mission objectives and potential harm to U.S. pilots that aligns very closely with what we understand was in the classified version of this report as well.

The IG also writes something about that -- the information that Hegseth has sent via signal was traced back to a document that was marked classified at the time that Hegseth Senate. It says, based on our review we concluded that some information the secretary sent from his personal cell phone on signal on March 15, 2025, matched the operational information U.S. CENTCOM sent and classified as secret, no foreign.

That means intelligence that can't be shared with any sort of foreign allies, and obviously, classified as secret. So, while, you know, the IG was not ever intended, and it wasn't within the scope of their investigation to weigh in on the legality of Hegseth's actions. And in fact, it does acknowledge that as secretary of defense, he has broad authority when it comes to declassification.

At the same time, it's very clear that the IG found multiple violations of the DoD policy and multiple problems institutionally at the Pentagon with the use of non-government unsecure platforms, as far as a way to share sensitive military information.

And so, it's going to remains to be seen how this, the release of this report might impact HEG sets standing within the administration Republicans, including

Senate Majority Leader, John Thune, not exactly offering a full- throated endorsement of Hegseth, really saying that it's up to Donald Trump whether or not Hegseth remains defense secretary or if he's ultimately replaced with somebody else.

BASH: Right. It's really interesting and important information, as you said, it's even the unclassified version of this is confirming what you reported yesterday, which you just got into. Thank you, Zach. I really appreciate that.

Back here at the table. Here's what Secretary Hegseth posted on social media last night. No classified information, total exoneration. Case closed. And in a nod to the president, thank you for your attention to this IG report. I mean, I'm not so sure that's the way it's landing on Capitol Hill, even among Republicans.

ASMA KHALID, CO-HOST, THE GLOBAL STORY PODCAST, BBC: But what we've seen, I mean, to that point, is thus far, at least the press secretary issued a statement yesterday saying that the president stands by Secretary Hegseth. So thus far, we're not seeing any sort of cracks internally, at least from my vantage point at the White House. I mean, I think the thing that's very interesting in this moment, though, is that Pete Hegseth is certainly under pressure.

We see from some members on Capitol Hill, but this whole policy, to go back for a moment to what we saw with blowing up boats in the Caribbean, is increasingly raising eyebrows and concerns internationally. There's just a report this week that the man of a Colombian family was killed, has filed an official complaint. And in that complaint with the International -- Inter-American Commission on Human Rights accuses the U.S. of an extra judicial killing and specifically cites Pete Hegseth by name.

And so, I do think that, you know, these issues around Pete Hegseth don't just reside in the halls of Capitol Hill, but you know, there are questions and concerns about his role at a real international level, beyond just the borders of the United States.

BASH: What are you hearing from your sources about Hegseth and how his standing is?

TYLER PAGER, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: I mean, I think the truism that we've seen throughout the president's second term is that he does not really want to fire people. He saw that happen in the first term, or he didn't see it. He did that in first term, where he fired scores of senior officials and cabinet secretaries, and it contributed to the narrative of chaos that he and his allies and aides felt was damaging to his own political brand and his ability to function in the White House.

[12:10:00]

And the other big difference this term versus the first term is that he has put people in place that are inherently loyal to him and want to do whatever he says. I mean, we've seen it time and time again in these cabinet meetings that are live stream for the whole public, where the secretaries go around basically just praising the president. And so, the president is chiefly focused on himself, and with the cabinet secretaries following his orders, there's not much dissatisfaction from the president.

Now, I think one of the questions when it comes to Hegseth is the concern within Capitol Hill. One of the pressure points on the president could be Republicans on Capitol Hill. We haven't seen that term brief grow loud enough for that to be a significant threat to Hegseth job security yet, but I think that's the point to keep watching on.

But until then, there doesn't seem to be any interest from the president in terms of dismissing Hegseth, and from sources I've talked to, even privately, the president has said, we're standing by him. BASH: We've got to get a quick break in. But I do quickly want to play to that point. Manu trying to get an answer from Roger Wicker, the Chairman of the Armed Services Committee, who's a critical player here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you have concerns about the secretary's leadership right now, with all these controversies this the Caribbean boat strikes, Ukraine, do you have concerns about his leadership?

SEN. ROGER WICKER (R-MS): Well, we're continuing to get the facts, but based on this particular allegation, which is now several months old. I think the secretary is in a pretty good position on that, but I'd rather the statement stand--

RAJU: Would you say you have to give confidence in him? Would you say that?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: And see. We're going to sneak in a break. We've got more breaking news. You're looking at live pictures from Virginia, where investigators are searching the home of a man, they say plays pipe bombs outside the RNC and DNC just hours before January 6, 2021. Stay with us.

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[12:15:00]

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BASH: Breaking news. You're now looking at live pictures from Woodbridge, Virginia, where it looks like investigators are not just searching the home, but the car of the man that they say planted pipe bombs outside of the DNC and RNC headquarters, the night before the January 6 insurrection. Now, sources tell CNN the suspect was arrested today. It is, of course, almost five years later.

I want to now bring in CNN's Evan Perez, who is at the Justice Department, where we expect the FBI director and the attorney general to give an update later this afternoon. Also joining us, former Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis. Evan, I want to start with you. What are you hearing from your sources about how this went down?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this arrest was made earlier today, and Dana, this is a case, obviously that has really bedeviled the FBI. They have spent the last few years doing a lot of interviews, hundreds of interviews. They have gone through tens of thousands of video clips, a lot of it.

The problem with this investigation has been the grainy video, the surveillance video that you have shown there on our air. These are the clips the FBI has released trying to get people to call in tips, and really nothing -- nothing worked until they brought in a new team earlier this year. And that's what led them to the arrest this morning of Brian Cole Jr. He's 30 years old in Woodbridge, Virginia, and the arrest happened again at the end of a long, tedious process, but this new team looked at some of the evidence that had been gathered over the years and developed some new some new leads, essentially led them to this point. Dana?

BASH: A real quick. Evan, staying with you. Was it just fresh eyes from this new team? Was it AI, or do we not know yet?

PEREZ: Well, we know that it is. It has to do with this new team that were brought in from elsewhere in the FBI. I'm told that there was an agent from the ATF that joined them as well. And really it was just more new fresh eyes. Because again, the teams that have been looking at this over the last few years had really been sort of a dead end. It was almost like they were looking at a cold case, which is extraordinary, if you think about this, right? This is a thing that happened just a couple blocks away from the Capitol.

When it happened, if you remember, Dana, it drew police away from the Capitol complex, which is why there's been so many conspiracies about whether or not the two things were linked and whether that was an intentional word we're going to heard. We're going to hear a lot more about the suspect and about the charges that we anticipate in the next couple of hours from the Justice Department.

BASH: It's so fascinating, Commissioner Davis, it certainly seemed like a cold case, but it turns out they were working really, really hard for all these years.

ED DAVIS, FORMER BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: That's true, Dana. If you look at the definition of a cold case. It's over one to three years old and it is reinvigorated after all the leads have been run down. So, I don't know if this technically defines a cold case, but it certainly is a case that the FBI has spent a lot of time on and a lot of dedication. And I cannot underestimate the importance of putting fresh eyes on a case like this.

This is what led to the apprehension of Whitey Bulger here in Boston, many years ago. Rick Deloria from the FBI redirected the case, had new people look at it, and all of a sudden, he was in custody. On this one, you know, the video evidence is important, and it's usually the first place that you look, but also cell phone tower dumps are extremely important and there can be thousands of pieces of data that need to be gone through from different locations in the city in the comparison of those things.

[12:20:00]

And the other thing I'd like to say is that a lot of times these cases are cracked because someone says something, you know, an estranged spouse or someone who was advised by the suspect that they were involved in it comes around years later and sometimes just shaking the tree helps.

BASH: Yeah. And for our viewers who don't remember, you were leading the Boston Police Department during the tragic marathon bombing, and that manhunt lasted just five days. This again, is nearly five years. Totally different situations, totally different everything, but it kind of gives a little context or perspective into what we're seeing now.

DAVIS: Right. And it's all dependent on the quality of the evidence. We had very high-quality photos that were easy to identify. That's not the case in this particular situation. And I know that they've looked at the shoe evidence, what types of footwear the suspect was wearing, how he or she walked, all sorts of -- sort of peripheral things that in a desperate attempt, really to try to put the case together.

So, it wasn't for lack of trying that it's five years out and five days is not a comment on the quality of the investigation. It's the quality of the evidence that we're able to get our hands on quickly.

BASH: OK, makes sense, totally understood. Evan, thank you for your amazing reporting always. Ed Davis, thank you for your experience and your insight. Appreciate you both being here.

DAVIS: Thank you, Dana.

BASH: Coming up, big changes could soon be coming to the childhood vaccine schedule. And RFK Jr.'s handpicked advisors are making the call. Stay with us.

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BASH: Right now, vaccine advisors who were handpicked by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. are meeting to weigh a major change to the childhood vaccine schedule, including a possible vote to delay a dose of the hepatitis B vaccine, which prevents an incurable liver virus. The hepatitis B vaccine has been recommended for all infants since 1991 and is credited with drastically cutting the number of infections in the U.S.

My Smart panel is back with me. Jamie, take it away.

GANGEL: Should we just do facts first? Of all these vaccines -- this is to quote, Ben Tinker, our colleague on the morning call this morning. These vaccines have been proven safe and effective for decades. There are profound and dangerous, I believe, were the words he used risk to not giving them. There is no cure for the hepatitis virus yet. No new studies have shown any new danger. I just would ask, when did effective medicine and science become the enemy? Why do we want people to suffer and die? It is just inconceivable to me what they're doing.

KHALID: This is one of the things that I find so strikingly different from President Trump's first term. Some months ago, I spoke with the former Surgeon General, Jerome Adams, who served during President Trump's first term. He's been an outspoken critic of some of these changes. When the Trump administration -- when the CDC panel was changed over right, that vaccine panel was dismissed, dismantled in the summer.

He told me that he was really concerned about this eroding the public's trust and medical science, you know, he was a part of the Trump administration. In that first term, there was a very different approach towards science, towards vaccines in that term, and that to me, has been the remarkable difference this time around.

PAGER: Just to say, the groundwork for some of that was laid by President Trump in his first term. When we think about the coronavirus and those briefings that the president did from the White House briefing room, talking about treatments that were not scientifically proven to try to treat the virus, and him downplaying that his refusal to wear the mask.

So, there's definitely a difference in terms of the personnel and the agencies. But I think it's important to remember that this started in part with Trump and the way in which he denigrated institutions like the CDC and other public health organizations.

MATTINGLY: I was just going say, 100 percent true. And I think that actually both those things are important elements that connect to something that underpins this. I think it's really important to think through which is the people from his first term that are around him now. They came out of that first term with views related to NIH, CDC, medical professionals in general, because of COVID and because of the amount of interactions they had with them during COVID that were so starkly and definitively de legitimizing toward those organizations, based on their experiences as they saw it.

And spent a lot of time in the four years in the wilderness, thinking through how they were going to ensure those organizations were not independent, were not able to do their own things and just be scientists with no political influence, and ensuring that they could control them in any way they wanted to. The wild card has been RFK, Jr. And the people who were chuckled when Trump said, I'm just going to basically let him run wild over health. It's like, yeah, well--

BASH: Where the only reason -- he was, and the only reason RFK Jr. is HHS Secretary

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