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Officials: Person Detained After Two Killed In Brown University Shooting; Eleven Killed In Shooting Targeting Hanukkah Event In Australia; One-on-one With The Most Vulnerable Senate Democrat; Will Health Care Costs Help Democrats Win In Purple States?; Is Trump Losing His Grip Over Republicans? Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired December 14, 2025 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:00:08]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

MANU RAJU, CNN HOST: Good morning. We're in breaking coverage here on "Inside Politics Sunday." I'm Manu Raju.

Two tragic mass shootings, a world apart, but communities grieving much the same. And authorities trying to piece it all together. One of them unfolding right here at home, this time, on a college campus, a Brown University in Rhode Island. After two students were killed and nine injured. Officials now say a person of interest is in custody. The shelter in place order has now been lifted after the campus had been in lockdown overnight.

Then in Australia, a mass shooting in Sydney's Bondi Beach killed 11 people and injured 29 others. Officials have labeled that a terrorist attack. It said gunmen targeted the Jewish community there. It happened during an event to celebrate the first night of Hanukkah.

Let's begin with the shooting of Brown University. CNN's Brian Todd is in Rhode Island. And Coventry, Rhode Island, not too far from the Brown University campus.

So, Brian, the big news this morning, the person of interest is in custody. You're standing right outside the hotel where he was taking into custody. What more can you tell us?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Manu, we were told a short time ago by law enforcement officials here that they were waiting on a search warrant to be executed in this hotel in his hotel room.

And indeed, we believe that at least some search warrant activity has just occurred because I'll -- I'll step out and let our photojournalist Effie Nidam kind of zoom in here. You see this law enforcement activity here. You see these vehicles.

We were here just a moment ago when they brought some materials out of that back entrance to the hotel. And we -- you know, we were asking law -- law enforcement officials earlier here whether a weapon had been confiscated from this room. They were -- were not able to answer that question, but we're going to try to get some information on that in -- in a short -- in short order here.

What we can also tell you is we can confirm that the person that was apprehended here in the early, early morning hours is the same person. That is the person of interest. That is according to a law enforcement official who I spoke with here in Rhode Island.

And again, when I asked that same law enforcement official, if a weapon had been confiscated from the room where law enforcement converged here this morning, that official was not able to answer that question.

So we're waiting on information about -- about the weapon and some of its characteristics. We do know that they have shell casings.

In the meantime, I can tell you, you know, more of what occurred here this morning. CNN did witness them converging on the room. And as a matter of fact, why don't I step aside when I tell you what happened earlier. You can see some of the law enforcement people coming in and out of here as we speak here.

CNN did witness police converging on this room. Law enforcement officials from at least -- at least 20 of them. We saw, U.S. Marshals, FBI agents, and local officers. We did press them at the time that they converged on the room if this was connected to the shooting at Brown University. And one of them said it was connected to the shooting.

A member of our team who was here at the time heard them, you know, come to the door and say, open up. He also heard them say, quote, we have a warrant for your apartment. And then heard them say, we're taking you back to the back to the cruiser. So that is what one member of our team did hear when they converged on this area.

So, Manu, that is the situation here. We do have word that officials here are going to give a briefing at about noon Eastern Time where we will hope to get obviously some more information.

Shortly after they apprehended the person here, the person of interest, the mayor of Providence did tell reporters at a news conference that the community can breathe easier now. So that was, again, you know, angling more toward some confirmation that the person of interest was indeed the person captured, apprehended here this morning. Manu.

RAJU: Yes. Well, here at noon Eastern press conference, as you're mentioning, a lot of questions about that person of interest. We'll see what details they can give us.

[11:05:05]

But, Brian, in the meantime, bring us up to speed on the condition of the victims and how the university community is reacting.

TODD: Right. We were told at that news conference that I believe they said that one person, let's see -- there are seven people in stable condition, one in critical but stable condition, Manu, and one of the injured was discharged. So that accounts for all nine people who were injured in the attack.

And I'll repeat that information that came from the mayor, Brett Smiley. One person in stable condition. Excuse me, one person in critical but stable condition, seven people in stable condition and one of the victims has been discharged.

RAJU: All right. Brian Todd in Rhode Island. Thank you for bringing us the latest and we'll check back in with you as news develops this hour.

All right. Now, we head to talk about the terrorist attack that occurred in the Jewish community in Australia. Eleven people are dead after a shooting at Bondi Beach.

Joining me now is CNN's Nic Robertson. Nic, the videos coming out of this are just startling. What are you hearing about the state of the investigation?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes. The investigation right now. Police had earlier spoken about the possibility of three attackers. There's been no update on the -- on the third, but they have killed one of the attackers, shot dead and another has been taken into custody also injured.

Among those 11 people who were killed, a 12-year-old girl, a rabbi, 29 other people seriously injured, according to police officials taken to local hospitals for treatment.

People have been gathering, perhaps about a thousand people late afternoon, 5:00 P.M. there in Sydney on Bondi Beach in a small park right next to the beach called Archer's Park. People are celebrating the first evening of Hanukkah. And that's when the gunman attacked about quarter to 7:00 local time is the best estimate. We have quarter to 7:00 P.M. in the evening.

And video that's emerging is incredibly dramatic. You look at where the gunman are in some of the -- some of these shots. They clearly have a clear line of view straight onto that open area in the park.

And then something incredibly dramatic happens. You can see a man in a white shirt there next to a vehicle. He's very close to one of the gunmen. The gunman's got a big long weapon and then he goes forward and wrestles it from the gunman, takes it from him, takes control of the situation.

Now, local T.V. networks there, and we're still trying to run down all this information, are identifying that heroic rescuer there, taking the gun as Ahmed Al-Ahmed, a 43-year-old man they say, two young children but bravely going in to wrestle the weapon away from the attacker. The attacker retreating back off, believed to go and get another weapon and shoot later.

The Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu actually praising this heroic action, saying this man was a Muslim who did this. We thank him for it.

The Prime Minister of Australia, Anthony Albanese, very, very clear about what this is. An act of evil, he said.

RAJU: And, Nick, we see -- often see these types of mass shootings happening in the United States very sadly and tragically. This occurs so often here in the United States. But what about in Australia? How common or uncommon are such mass shootings?

ROBERTSON: Relatively uncommon and statistically at an opposite end of the spectrum to the United States. Australia has very tight gun control laws. There's a reason for that about 30 years ago which was the last mass shooting on this scale that -- that was witnessed. The laws were tightened to make it harder for people to get weapons.

So it is much more of a rare occurrence. And when you look at the weapons involved here, these were not sidearms. These were long weapons that were being fired and targeted. That attacker by the -- the -- the hero who takes down the attacker by the way, he is then later targeted and shot by the gunman, shot in the shoulder and shot in the arm according to a relative of his.

RAJU: All right. Nic Robertson with the latest on this tragic events in Australia. Thank you for the details there.

And more of our breaking news coverage right after the break. A panel of experts will join me and talk about the investigations. How authorities are piecing together a possible motives.

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[11:10:49]

RAJU: Staying on top of two breaking news stories this morning, the first in Australia. Investigators say 11 people are dead after what officials are calling a terror attack at a Hanukkah event at Sydney's Bondi Beach.

And in Rhode Island, person of interest is in custody after a shooting at Brown University left two students dead and nine others injured. We're standing by for a potential news conference at the top of the hour.

Joining me now, Homeland Security analyst Donell Harvin and Candice DeLong, a former FBI profiler and host of the Killer Psyche podcast. Good morning to you both.

First to you, Donell. Let's begin with the -- the Brown shooting and this person of interest. They have not called him -- the authorities have not called him a suspect yet. Does it seem like that he is a suspect? And why wouldn't -- don't you think they've gone that far?

DONELL HARVIN, HOMELAND SECURITY ANALYST: Well, they need to establish probable cause. And so what they're doing right now, and you saw they're executing a warrant on the facility that he was staying at the hotel room. They need to determine whether there's physical evidence that they can attach to him, that they can also attach to the crime scene.

And so there are shell casings at the crime scene they have that they belong -- that belongs to them. But they have someone in custody. They're detaining this individual. And so they can create a case enough to charge him with something.

[11:15:03]

RAJU: Does it seem like -- I mean, it's hard to know, of course, all the details since that -- that information has been limited. But from your expertise, does it seem like that this is the shooter? The suspect at least?

HARVIN: It seems like this is the suspect, but they're being very deliberate. Because once again, there's a lot of kids going back and forth at the campus. There may be a lot of people who fit that description, so they don't want to get the wrong person. And they don't want to let out bad information, especially when you have two victims that are dead.

RAJU: Yes. And Candice, as I mentioned, you're a former FBI profiler. What questions do you have as they try to figure out this person of interest's motivations here?

CANDICE DELONG, FORMER FBI PROFILER: Usually people that do mass shootings like this are motivated. There's a -- there's a few of the top ones. Revenge is one. A lot of times we look at something like this and say, well, this person must be mentally ill. They must be out of their mind. But in fact, that is not usually the case. They are not seriously mentally ill. They're angry, oftentimes, about something.

And -- and it's interesting thing about mass shooters, over 50 percent of them expect to die the day of the event, either by police or by their own hand. They do not expect to survive. They don't care if they do.

RAJU: Wow. That is something. I mean, and, Donell, what do you think about as you look at their investigation here and as they think about the motive? How are they going to try to piece together the motive?

HARVIN: Yes. And unfortunately, we've had a lot of mass shootings this year. I mean, in the year where the word unprecedented has been used unprecedented in the amount of times, you know.

So law enforcement what will do is once they have a person of interest, they can get warrants to seize electronic information. They can get emails, they can get social media. And so they'll look at that.

Inadvertently, most of these individuals will leave what we call breadcrumb trails online. They'll either talk to somebody in a chat room or post something, or maybe talk to someone in person, saying that they have agreements like Candice mentioned. They're angry. They want revenge. And so that's how they start piecing together motive. Sometimes there is absolutely no motive, but that's particularly rare. RAJU: And, Candice, what do you make of the fact that the person of interest here did not leave the Providence area? In fact, was taken into custody at a nearby hotel. What does that say to you about his ties to the area?

DELONG: I -- I actually -- there could be a few reasons. One, I -- I wouldn't be surprised to know if he was watching the news when there was a knock at the door or the door just was open, wanting to see what he would -- what he had done.

He -- it may turn out he actually lives in the area, but did not want to be home if he lived with other people when he was going to execute this deadly plan of his.

But I agree, he probably -- they will find out that online, he engaged in what we call leakage. He has all these thoughts and all these feelings of anger and what he's going to do, and he just has to tell someone.

RAJU: So interesting. And you for -- what about you? What's your takeaway from that, Donnell, the fact that he was found? I mean, a lot of people thought that he perhaps he's going to flee the state, but he stayed at a hotel nearby, this person of interest.

HARVIN: Well, when you have such a massive manhunt in such a small area, I mean, that Providence area is very close-knit. It's very tight. People know who's not supposed to be there, who is supposed to be there. I don't know if he even came from the outside and stayed there.

We -- we used to work with the hotel security managers all the time and say, be on the lookout for funny people doing funny things. So we'll have to see whether he checked in at a hotel after this or had checked in before.

But, you know, once again, the -- the -- the investigation is still unfolding. So I don't want to get too far ahead of the --

RAJU: And we'll see what happens there. Donell, I want to just stay with you right here, because I want you to look at this video from this second shooting that occurred, this shooting that occurred in Australia at this event.

It appeared to be very much targeting Jewish people on the first night of Hanukkah. There's a -- here on your screen, you could see what appear to be an innocent bystander, grabs the gun of the shooter, takes it away from him, points it back at the shooter. It is pretty stunning video. What's your reaction to that?

HARVIN: Yes, it's stunning. This has happened before, though. We just don't have camera footage of it. And we actually teach this in college campuses and businesses all across the U.S., run, hide, or fight. This individual did a combination of both. He hid and then he fought.

And so it's rare to see this type of activity that individual is clearly brave. Unfortunately, he was shot, but hopefully doing better. But this is the world we live in where individuals need to think quickly on their toes to help, you know, prevent more deaths and injuries.

RAJU: Candice, what is your take about Australia, this happening in Australia, just the fact that this, you know, we have seen this mass shooting happening in Australia. The United States, of course, sadly, this has become an epidemic. It happens so often. It is so rare that we've seen something like this happen in Australia, but they're now, of course, suffering something that we have experienced all too often here in the United States.

[11:20:19]

DELONG: Right. This is purely a hate-motivated crime. I mean, to do something like this, to a group of Jewish people celebrating the first day of Hanukkah, that would be like someone going into St. Peter's Cathedral and shooting a bunch of Christians on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. It's just pure hate.

RAJU: Yes. It really, really is just awful, awful turn of events.

Well, I appreciate you both coming on, sharing your expertise and talking to us about this despite the tragedy. It's nice to see you both here. Thank you so much for your time.

Still ahead, millions of Americans are facing a financial cliff. In my exclusive interview with the Senate's most vulnerable Democrat, John Ossoff. He's not holding back against Trump and has a dire warning on healthcare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JON OSSOFF (D-GA): The vote that members cast, whether to extend these tax credits, means people will live or people will die.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[11:25:42]

RAJU: Time is now running out for millions of Americans who are days away from suffering a painful increase in their healthcare premiums because of gridlock on Capitol Hill and subsidies under Obamacare that are set to expire at years end.

So, what will this mean for you and for the 2026 midterms where the issue of healthcare will be front and center?

I sat down with the only Democratic Senator who was running for re- election in the state that Donald Trump won in 2024. And that Senator John Ossoff of Georgia. He talked to me about what the fall of this issue means in the year ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RAJU: Thanks for talking to me.

OSSOFF: Sure.

RAJU: Appreciate it. So we're about to hit the end of the year and there's really no sense that there's going to be a deal that can be signed into law to extend these subsidies under the Affordable Care Act. It's going to hurt so many Americans if and when these do expire. Won't they just blame both parties for this gridlock?

OSSOFF: More important than the politics is the human impact. And look, we still have a few hours as we're taping this until this vote. I hope that my Republican colleagues are hearing from their constituents like I'm hearing from mine from a constituent who's in the middle of chemotherapy who may lose health insurance in the middle of a cancer battle.

Another constituent who's diabetic whose insurance has gone up hundreds of dollars who's afraid that she might die, if Republicans allow these ACA benefits to expire.

This is not controversial among the public. It's only controversial in Washington. And we should put the politics aside, do the right thing and prevent these catastrophic increases in health insurance.

RAJU: Should you guys, as Democrats move closer to the Republican position? Because you've been pushing for this extension of subsidies. They control Congress. They say, we're not going to do this. The leadership says that. Should you move closer to their position?

OSSOFF: I am always willing and eager to try to bring Republicans and Democrats to give it a serve my constituents. It is candidly not clear what the Republican plan to lower premiums is.

And it's not like this is a surprise. I offered an amendment to their budget bill that cut Medicaid over the summer to extend these tax credits because we knew that they needed to be renewed.

So, look, I'm -- I'm eager to work across the aisle to solve this problem, but the clock is ticking. Open enrollment ends in just a few days. People's premiums are going to start hitting in just a couple of weeks. So we need to act swiftly.

RAJU: So there is going to be a political impact. What do you think that's going to be if these are not extended?

OSSOFF: Look, I think it is a political disaster for the GOP, but that is much, much less significant than the fact it's a disaster for people's health and people's finances.

Half a million Georgians, it's projected will lose their insurance altogether. More than a million Georgians will see their premiums double or worse. It's tens of millions of Americans across the country.

So the politics are clear, but that's not the most important part of this. We really are talking about life and death. Maybe that gets lost sometimes in the drama inside the beltway, the vote that members cast whether to extend these tax credits means people will live or people will die. It means people will flourish or people will face financial ruin. That's the power and responsibility that we have as senators. We should put the politics aside and do the right thing.

RAJU: You took up very hard line during the 43-day government shutdown, voting against those Republican efforts to reopen the government, including the last one in which several of your colleagues voted to reopen the government. When you look back at it, was that a mistake to reopen the government?

OSSOFF: I voted repeatedly to both fund the government and extend these Affordable Care Acts tax credits. And that's the right policy for the American people. Americans don't want their health insurance premiums to go up by hundreds of dollars a month. They don't want federal government shutdowns.

And right now the question is whether or not we can do the right thing in the Senate and extend these Affordable Care Act benefits so that my constituents don't face preventable health crisis, don't face death from treatable illness and don't face financial ruin.

At a time when the cost of living is out of control, when the tariff chaos is driving up prices and hammering small businesses when Medicaid cuts are already resulting in the closure of hospital services in my state, all while the president's adorning the White House and gold trim and building some new luxury ballroom, the priorities in this town are not right.

[11:30:10]

RAJU: You mentioned it'd be a political disaster for the GOP in this three-way GOP primary against you. They're trying to paint you as a progressive out-of-state with your -- with your -- out-of-step with your state. How big of a problem is that going to be for you?

OSSOFF: I've run some very tough races. And all that nonsense will be coming. That's politics as usual. The question for Georgians next year is going to be a judgment on this economy. It's going to be a judgment on what's happening to their health insurance plans. It's going to be a judgment on this administration's record and whether an out-of-control president who's engaged in brazen and overt corruption and the abuse of power needs to be constrained. We need to restore checks and balances urgently.

RAJU: Trump plans to come to campaign all across the country, probably in Georgia. What kind of impact would Trump being stumping across Georgia state that he just won last year? What would that have on your race?

OSSOFF: The president is deeply unpopular in Georgia. And it's not a surprise why. There's no part of Georgia where defunding hospitals and nursing homes to cut taxes for the rich is popular.

There's no part of Georgia where people are just clamoring for their health insurance premiums to go up by hundreds of dollars. There's no part of Georgia where people like seeing the first family raking in hundreds of millions or billions of dollars in deals across the globe. So, the president's unpopular in Georgia. And I expect that to be a factor in next year's election.

RAJU: Will it be a referendum on him? And have these past Georgia races been a referendum on Trump?

OSSOFF: Look, when I look at all the issues that confront the American people right now and my constituents right now, I can't think of anything more fundamental than whether people can afford health insurance. It is life or death. It is about the basic economic security of families in my state. And that's why I think this vote that we're taking today is one of the most consequential votes that senators will take in our careers.

RAJU: And as we wrap here, who do we dread to face here in your general election? You're facing three Republican opponents. Which one?

OSSOFF: I have no preference. Come one, come all. They're all trying to curry favor with the president. And we'll see who comes out of the primary.

RAJU: OK. All right. Thanks for taking the time.

OSSOFF: Thank you, Manu. Good to see you.

RAJU: All right. Joining me now, Carl Hulse from the New York Times and Tia Mitchell with the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Good to see you both.

Tia, you cover all things Georgia. You know, oftentimes you see this election year pivot, especially with people who are running for reelection in a swing state, a purple state. They may tout their work with the president. Here he is talking about corruption of a president, a deeply unpopular president, an out-of-control president. Not an election year pivot.

TIA MITCHELL, ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF: No, but I think it's a reflection of exactly what he said, that Trump is pretty unpopular. There are even Republicans, as we're seeing in the polling, that are starting to question some of Trump's decision- making. You know, the Marjorie Taylor Greene. When you lose Marjorie Taylor Greene, you know, that says a lot about, you know, the president's struggles on some of these populist topics that are top of mind for voters. And Ossoff is very much aware of that.

RAJU: How do you see it?

CARL HULSE, NEW YORK TIMES CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: I mean, this is the most active on an issue I've seen, Senator Ossoff. That shows you the power of the issue in --

RAJU: On health care.

HULSE: You're right, in this state. And I am struck by how strong he was against Trump. He's made his decision on how he's going to run. You know, the Democrats engineered this shutdown, and it was a big risk. But I think they came out of it now feeling pretty good that they've got --

RAJU: And he voted against reopening the government.

HULSE: Right, right.

RAJU: Unlike seven of his Democratic colleagues voted for it.

HULSE: Right. And so, I think they feel like they've got Republicans on the defensive on this issue. You know, the House is scrambling this week to come up with something, anything to vote on. You know, it's not anything that's going to become law, and it's nothing that right now extends these subsidies.

RAJU: Yeah, that's right. That bill coming to the floor this week would not extend those subsidies as much narrower health care plan. We'll see if they can even pass it. They may give an amendment vote to some of those moderate Republicans who want to extend those subsidies.

But look at the president's handling on the issue of health care right now. Among all U.S. adults, 29 percent -- just 29 percent, but not an independent number. Not good, 21 percent approve of Trump's handling of health care according to this "AP" poll, which explains to you very much why --

MITCHELL: Yeah.

RAJU: -- you're hearing that from Senator Jon Ossoff.

MITCHELL: And again, what he's been saying, you know, even as we were going into the shutdown, is that it was worth the fight because health care is such a salient issue for his constituents. We know nationwide, we're looking at the numbers. People are really concerned.

And he mentioned, you know, open enrollment ends on Monday. So, people right now are having to make decisions based on the subsidies ending and seeing these numbers for themselves as they shop for insurance on the exchanges. So, you know, Democrats don't really find much incentive to want to go back on this issue.

[11:35:09]

RAJU: I did ask one of his potential opponents, Buddy Carter, about what Ossoff said. He said the Unaffordable Care Act ruined Obamacare. So, he says it's not ruined health care in America. He says, so it's not a liability for Republicans. It's a liability for Democrats calling it an unaffordable program. Is it a liability for Democrats?

HULSE: No. And, you know, it's proven to be kryptonite for Republicans. They've been trying to get rid of Obamacare forever. It keeps boomeranging on them now. The president probably could have gotten these subsidies extended if he'd really intervened. But he -- he edged up to it, got pushed back by the Republican leadership in the House. RAJU: Yeah.

HULSE: And this is where we are.

RAJU: We'll see how two of his opponents serve in the House. They may have to get a vote on extending those subsidies this week. How will they vote? That's going to be an interesting thing to watch.

All right. Still ahead, we're standing by for a news conference on the Brown University shooting. We'll bring that to you live when it happens.

Plus, is President Trump losing his grip on the GOP? We'll discuss that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:40:45]

RAJU: For the first time, there are clear signs of significant pushback against President Trump from within his own party. On multiple fronts, Republicans are breaking with the president on issues big and small. Indiana Republicans rejected his new House map despite his relentless pressure campaign, while some GOP lawmakers broke with him on issues like health care, labor rights, and on those boat strikes.

All of this as the president's poll numbers continue to drop, and after Congress rolled him by demanding release of the Epstein files, with his Justice Department facing a deadline this week to comply with the law enacted over Trump's objections. So, how problematic is all of this for Trump? And is he losing his grip over the GOP?

My excellent reporters are here. So, should the White House be concerned about this? Because Carl, let me just put on the screen all the areas. This is just the past week of where Republicans broke with Trump. I mentioned Indiana. We talk about this labor vote on the floor. There was also Hegseth over the video. They put language in the annual defense bill to try to force the release of that video. There's an ACA vote that's building. Trump lost his candidate in the Miami mayoral race. How concerned should the White House be?

HULSE: Pretty concerned. I mean, the famous line, elections have consequences. That was a bad election for the Republicans last month now, and I think it caught everybody's attention.

I've been following this very closely. I think Republicans say, hey, there's going to be life after Trump, and we want to be a participant in it.

RAJU: You tend to see this almost every midterm cycle.

HULSE: Right. But it's actually faster, I think, this time. And one thing you didn't mention is blue slips. I know it's arcane, but there's a real issue in the Senate where the leadership is resisting big demands from President Trump to get rid of this blue slip and allow him to put his prosecutors in place.

So, you know, it's happening. But he still is a super powerful figure.

RAJU: Yes.

HULSE: And, you know, he's going to be able to get his way, but it's just not quite as easy.

RAJU: Yeah. You see that. And also the Senate, they want to get rid of the filibuster rule. Trump did. That's not happening as well.

I put the question to Mike Johnson about, does this mean, particularly in the aftermath of Indiana. Remember, this is a massive pressure campaign by the president trying to force them to pick up, to change the maps, to get two additional Republican seats in next year's midterms. The Republicans in that state said no. So, did that mean that Trump is a lame duck?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Are you worried about Trump's grip on power after Indiana. Do you think it shows he's a lame duck?

REP. MIKE JOHNSON, (R-LA) SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Not at all.

(CROSSTALK)

JOHNSON: No, he is not a lame duck. He's the most powerful president of this generation and many others. We have a lot more work to do together. The outcome in Indiana is inconsequential to that.

RAJU: He put a major pressure campaign --

JOHNSON: No, he didn't. No. He did not put a major pressure campaign for it. He let his opinion be known as he does on everything, all the time, all day long.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: He let his opinion be known.

MITCHELL: No. Sorry, Speaker Johnson. Incorrect. It was a major pressure campaign. And quite frankly, he used the might of, you know, those MAGA Republicans to further pressure those lawmakers in ways that may have backfired because they talked about receiving death threats and swatting and all that type of things.

I do think, however, Speaker Johnson is correct that Donald Trump still does have a pretty firm grip on Republicans, particularly Republicans in Congress. They're going to try to give him what he wants.

However, what we're seeing is there are limitations, especially on those things like in Indiana, where the lawmakers just said, you know, he's pushing us in ways we just don't think are going to be healthy for us long-term. You know, these maps, we don't think it's smart to do what he wants us to do.

So, that's some pushback on Epstein, it was Republicans for years have said we've been consistent on this, we're not going to switch up just because Trump wants us to switch up. And then I think the third part is where Trump is pushing them to do things that they know are very unpopular. That's where we're at on the health care issue, on economic issues, on the labor relations, for example. I think there are members of Congress who are realizing that some of the positions Trump wants them to take are going to be really damaging come election time. That's where they're seeing some pushback.

HULSE: I mean, I think there was incredible backlash to that pressure campaign in Indiana. That kind of politics did not work there. Speaking of losing their grip, how about Speaker Johnson, right? I mean, his Republican troops are finding all sorts of ways to go around him. He is really struggling to keep a hold on things.

[11:45:12]

RAJU: Yeah, and the dissension is seen here publicly. Really -- people used to say these things, but don't have on background, say these things anonymously. Now, they're going on the record and saying it in front of the camera, criticizing the leadership.

Now, what does this all mean for the midterms? That's a question that I put to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the progressive Democrat from New York.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): If you want to gerrymander these seats that way, that also means that you have to water down a lot of Republican seats and a lot of those Republican margins. And if they want to do that during a blue wave, what is looking to be a strong cycle for Democrats, you know, in 2018, we won seats that Democrats won seats that were that, you know, we're looking that there could be a cycle where our plus 10 seats flip to Democrats. And so, if Republicans want to draw a map that makes them more vulnerable to that, that's -- that's their decision to do that.

RAJU: You think that'll be a wave, a blue wave?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I think so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Blue wave.

MITCHELL: Yeah. I mean, that's what the signs are telling us. I -- we can say --

RAJU: Still early, still very early.

MITCHELL: Absolutely. But in these off-year elections, we've seen Democrats win over and over again. We've seen them, you know, you talked about the Miami mayoral race. There was a state house seat in Georgia that just flipped that was gerrymandered, you know, designed to be Trump leaning, Republican leaning, and Democrats won that seat in Athens, Georgia.

So, the point is, I think Democrats feel that the signs and the polling are showing they are in a good position. But of course, there's a lot of time to go between now and then.

RAJU: You've covered a lot of ways.

HULSE: There's a ton of time left. But I do think the number you showed in the poll earlier on independence, independents decide congressional elections, right? They're the difference makers. The Republicans are cratering with independents who wanted more from Trump. They wanted something different from Trump than they're getting, right?

This affordability, not a hoax. People know what's going on at the grocery store. And these redistricting fights, every time you do this, you produce an unintended consequence. And I think the Republicans got a little over their skis, didn't think the Democrats were going to fight back to the extent they have fought back in California and some of these other states. And now -- now maybe they're not going to have the pickup of seats that they wanted.

RAJU: Before we go to break, this is the week where they could potentially release the Epstein files. The deadline under the law that Trump was essentially forced to enact is Friday.

MITCHELL: Yeah.

RAJU: Do you think they'll comply with the law?

MITCHELL: I mean, how do they not? But, you know, we're talking about the Trump White House.

RAJU: There are ways that he can get away with it.

MITCHELL: Yeah.

RAJU: Not release it if they cite justification.

MITCHELL: But again, I mean, if they cite justification, I think that's not going to go over well with a lot of Americans who -- especially Republicans.

RAJU: Yeah, Republicans are the ones who forced this as well. All right, guys. Thank great discussion. We have much more breaking news. We're following that out of Australia and at Brown University. And we're standing by for a press conference from officials in Rhode Island. And that is minutes away. We'll bring that to you live. Stay tuned.

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[11:52:44] RAJU: Any minute now we're expecting a news conference in Rhode Island where authorities are expected to give new details about the deadly Brown University shooting and a person of interest who was taken into custody this morning. Two students were killed. Nine others were injured.

Joining me now is Jennifer Mascia who writes about gun violence for "The Trace." Jennifer, thank you so much for being with me this morning. We're about to hear from those authorities in Rhode Island. What are your main questions at this point of the investigation?

JENNIFER MASCIA, SENIOR NEWS WRITER, THE TRACE: I want to know how the gunman got the gun. Rhode Island has some of the strictest gun laws in the country. You know, you need certification to buy a handgun. You need universal background checks, red flag laws. Where are there points of intervention where somebody could have raised an alarm and separated this person from guns? That's primarily what I'm looking at.

And also, you know, where -- if the shooter got the gun in another state, you know, the states with the strongest gun laws are only as strong as the states with the weakest gun laws. You know, we have open borders 450 million civilian guns in this country. So, I'm really curious where he got the gun and what kind of vetting was applied.

RAJU: As you mentioned, Rhode Island has some of the strictest gun laws in the country. And these mass shootings in that part of the country are pretty rare. What other changes would -- could be made? I know it's still early. We're still learning a lot about this and what happened in this tragic episode. What other changes could potentially be made to prevent another episode like this?

MASCIA: When I heard it happened in Providence, I was shocked. It doesn't happen here. It kept ringing over and over in my head. New England in general has the strongest gun laws in the country and some of the lowest rates of gun ownership and gun violence. Mostly, it's a lot of hunting weapons. There are weapons for self-defense, but you need licensing.

Honestly, what would help is a federal licensing system, but politically, we are very far from that. We can look at what works in other countries. European-style gun control means a lot more checking in with authorities, a lot more monitoring of gun owners.

You know, our mental state is not the same throughout our lives. There are times when we could be a harm to ourselves, and maybe it would be safer to not be around guns. There's a lot more of that oversight in other countries. But again, you know, no other country has had to regulate guns with $450 million in circulation.

[11:55:08]

So, even if, you know, we had European-style gun control tomorrow, which is not going to happen, we would still have mass shootings. Look no further than Australia. You know, there were 25 mass shootings between Port Arthur and Bondi Beach. They were smaller in scale, but they still happened. Of course, in that time, America had thousands of mass shootings.

RAJU: Yes --

MASCIA: We can reduce the casualties.

RAJU: Yeah. It's so, so tragic. On the 13th anniversary today of the Sandy Hook massacre, a terrible anniversary indeed.

Jennifer Mascia with "The Trace," thank you so much for joining me this morning.

And that's it for "Inside Politics Sunday." Up next, "State of the Union" with Jake Tapper and Dana Bash.

Officials are planning a news conference on the Brown University shooting at the top of the hour. That's just minutes away. We'll bring that to you live when that happens.

Thanks again for sharing your Sunday morning with us. We'll see you next time.

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