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White House Aides Reeling Over Susie Wiles Vanity Fair Interview; Trump Ally On Wiles Interview: "It's In Every Group Chat"; Susie Wiles: Bondi "Whiffed" On Epstein Files; W.H. Chief Of Staff Says Trump Has "Alcoholic's Personality"; FBI Offers $50,000 Reward For Information On Brown Univ Shooter. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired December 16, 2025 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: She is one of the most strategic members of President Trump's inner circle. Why is Susie Wiles spilling the White House tea?

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

First up, quote, it is in every group chat. Everyone is shocked and confused. That's how one Trump ally is describing the impact of the jaw dropping Vanity Fair piece out this morning with White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles as an unfiltered quote machine.

Now, Wiles is an incredibly powerful and very well respected force inside Trump world, and she is known to avoid the public spotlight. Here is what she is saying about this two-part series that was put out this morning in Vanity Fair.

Quote, the article published early this morning is a disingenuously framed hit piece on me and the finest president, White House staff and cabinet in history. Now here are just some of the highlights from the series of 11 interviews that Wiles did with Chris Whipple. He's the reporter here of Vanity Fair.

Over the course of about a year. She said, President Trump, quote, has an alcoholics personality. Vice President Vance, his MAGA conversion, she said was quote, sort of political. Elon Musk is a quote, avowed ketamine user, and he sleeps in a sleeping bag in the executive office building in the daytime. These are just some of the excerpts, and we are just scratching the surface.

I want to start today by bringing in my friend and colleague, David Chalian, and this is one of those days that I want the viewers to have a window into the text exchanges that you and I were having since very early this morning, David, and the conversations we were having about this, because there are sort of earthquakes in politics, and then there are moments like this. And it is because Susie Wiles, as I said, is so restrained, so strategic, so well respected. And what this is, is Susie Wiles' unfiltered on politics, on personality and on real- time policy decisions.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR & WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF: And she's, I would add, so loyal. And I'm not sure that changes here. I don't think that's, you know, everything you just laid out. And I think this is why our phones exploded this morning, not just as you reported at the top of the show, Dana, about inside Trump world, but across this entire city. This electrified everyone because it was so unexpected.

And I don't think -- and I think we have no reporting to indicate that she went into these interviews in any way to try and be anything but strategic and loyal to the president that she serves and has served with such a grip on power and flow of information inside this second Trump term.

What is astounding, as you said, is the unfiltered nature of it. The other thing is that I would note in her push back, Dana, nowhere does Susie Wiles say she didn't say these things. And I think that's really important for the viewer as well. Yes, she claims it was out of context. She claims it's a hit piece. We know that Chris Whipple -- the reporter has these conversations on tape, so it's interesting that Susie Wiles has not said she hasn't said this.

So, to your point, though, what did she say? What are inside these quotation marks? Well, you noted at the top some of the sort of palace intrigue on personality. But then on some of the major policy issues of this administration, whether it is deportations or the retribution agenda or Pam Bondi handling of the Epstein files or the attacks on boats near Venezuela.

Just policy point after policy point, she pulls back the curtain and gives the reader a real sense of what is going on inside the chief of staff's thinking on those things.

BASH: I just want to -- let's just -- let's just go there. You probably saw me looking down while you were talking, because I was getting texts from people inside Trump world who say, no, they're not reeling as our Chiron (Ph) says.

So, here we go. Susie Wiles is unfiltered. We're going to be unfiltered too. And they say that that is not what's happening and that is an exaggeration of what's going on inside. So that's out there and we're going to be transparent about what they're saying right now? What they are doing is circling the wagons in sort of cleaning this up. And in full defense of Susie Wiles.

[12:05:00]

BASH: Yes, which is understandable. Again, we cannot, you know there the sort of theme of Trump one was a lot of finger pointing, and there wasn't a lot of loyalty. And I think you were right to hit on loyalty. I have not met anybody who does not in Trump world, and frankly, even some Democrats who deal with the White House, who does not adore Susie Wiles. They just think she's a straight shooter and she's solid and that she is, you know, the person who needs to be there right now for this president at this time.

So, OK, let's go to one of the things, because this is Inside Politics that that was, I think, maybe one of the most intriguing things that we picked up on, and that is -- and we're going to talk a little bit more later about the things that she revealed about the Epstein saga that has been going on behind the scenes, because, again, she's been giving these interviews real time as things have been playing out inside the administration.

So, she talks about the fact that the people that are in order -- in ordinately interested in Epstein, are the new members of the Trump coalition. The people that I think about all the time, because I want to make sure that they are not Trump voters. They're Republican voters. Wiles said, it's the Joe Rogan listeners. It's the people that are sort of new to our world. It's not the MAGA base.

So, for all of the, you know, sort of titillating things that you said about personality and policy, just on the politics. This is so telling, David, because this is all about where the GOP is right now, and Susie Wiles is already there looking ahead. How do we get from what is the Trump party right now beyond that, and keep those people in the fold for when he is no longer on the ballot?

CHALIAN: Yeah. And that -- and that is somebody who is thinking, as you said, ahead. Like, not -- I'm not suggesting she's somewhat in some covert way, planning for a post Trump Republican Party, or trying to undermine him, not at all, trying to take what is clearly a coalition affiliated with him and a coalition. We see fraying in the electorate.

We saw it in November 5 among Hispanic voters or young males or young men of color. We independent voters, we've seen the fraying of the coalition that got him to where he is in a second term, and that is precisely the folks that Susie Wiles is talking about here -- about the larger Republican project -- about how to keep that coalition together for beyond Donald Trump's tenure.

BASH: David, you're the best. Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. And my panel is here today. I'm in the Big Apple with some terrific reporters here today. Lisa, I want to start with you. You covered the Trump administration in the first go round-Ish. I mean, we all did and I'm going to get to you in one second, Brian.

But let's just kind of zoom in on Epstein, because I talked about the politics. But let's talk about some of the personalities and the policy here. Because this, to me, is like, wow. OK. First, she says about Pam Bondi. I think Pam Bondi completely whiffed on appreciating that that was the very targeted group that cared about this meaning, she's talking about a moment at the very beginning of the second term where they brought in influencers and gave them binders and they were not satisfied with it.

First, she gave them binders, full of nothingness. Then she said that the witness list, or the client list was on her desk. There is no client list, and I'm sure as hell -- and it sure as hell wasn't on her desk. OK. Then fast forward to that moment when Todd Blanche, who was the president's personal attorney and now the deputy attorney general, went to see Ghislaine Maxwell in prison and talked to her, interviewed her, and then released the recordings. She reveals that she and the president didn't know anything about it. Most importantly, the president didn't know about it.

According to Wiles, it was Blanche's suggestion. The president was ticked. The president was mighty unhappy. I don't know why they moved her, neither does the president. And when I said, know about it, know about the fact that they moved her to a cushier situation in prison.

And then on Bill Clinton. There is no evidence Bill Clinton visited Epstein's island, according to Wiles. As for whether there was anything incriminating about Clinton in the files, the president was wrong about that.

LISA LERER, NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, this is a series of disclosures about how the White House, effectively is what she's saying, mishandled this Epstein situation. I think it's something that, you know, those of us who have been following this story, who have been watching how it's been received in MAGA world, it's not particularly surprising, but it's shocking to hear her say it, and to hear the truth.

[12:10:00]

The chief of staff of the White House admit that effectively, they blew the handling of the Epstein files. There's one thing that I wanted to point out where she talks about Ghislaine Maxwell and says the president doesn't know, you know why -- she says the president didn't ask for her to be moved. Doesn't know why she was moved.

There's a really important caveat there, where Vanity Fair went back to her, and asked, you know, updated, because whenever that happened -- that interview happened, it clearly was a while ago. And asked, well, do you know now, we're about to publish, you know now. Why she was moved to the like, the minimum-security prism.

BASH: Yeah.

LERER: And she responded that she -- they printed that she still didn't know, which means, indicates that she knew this piece was coming, that the magazine had gone back to her and asked for follow up, which is a pretty clear tell that she was really given some advance notification that this was coming. We're asking for whether, you know, a follow up on this interview we did a while ago and this is coming. So, she had to know. She had to anticipate this was coming up--

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: And copies were even circulating last night. I read an embargoed copy of this last night. Wiles knew about this at least a couple days in advance. I used to write for Vanity Fair, so I know the fact checking process is very vigorous. Editors, fact checkers, they go over the quotes, they go over the sourcing, they go back to the subjects of a story like this, and that's what happened in this case with Wiles. Apparently, she claimed that she didn't say it. And then the Times -- New York Times is able to listen to the tape from Chris Whipple.

And who is Chris Whipple, right? He is the person who wrote the book about chiefs of staff. He has convened chiefs of staff in the past. Clearly, she was confiding in someone she thought she trusted, right? Someone who wrote a book about chiefs of staff. Maybe she was thinking about her own legacy, but she's telling the truth, right?

All these quotes are accurate. People have speculated about Elon Musk drug use for years. Have concerns about Musk drug use for years. Trump has an alcoholics personality. What do we say every time he goes on a tyrant on Truth Social. We say, he sounds like the drunk at the end of the bar.

BASH: Yeah. I just want to say one thing.

STELTER: I know he doesn't drink.

BASH: Wait, right? And not only does he not drink, he has a brother who passed away because of addiction, and that is why he is an avowed sober man.

STELTER: Yes. And yet, every time he goes on a tyrant on Truth Social. People say he sounds like an alcoholic. He says -- what else did she say? Bondi working on the Epstein files. We've all been saying that all year long. She says the president is wrong about Clinton. That's true. That's accurate. So, it's really notable here that she's simply telling the truth, and that's what the scandal is.

BASH: We actually have, I should say, in addition to the, you know, text that I was just saying as we went on the air, that I was getting and others are as well. We are seeing not only Susie Wiles come out and say what she said I read at the top. Karoline Leavitt is supporting her. Russ Vought, who Susie Wiles called a right-wing zealot, is coming -- come out on social media and said that he fully supports her.

J.D. Vance, the Vice President, just spoke about this. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unfortunately, I have to ask a bit of an off topic question from affordability, because news events do intervene, and that is the interviews that White House Chief of Staff, Susie Wiles gave to Vanity Fair, in which she's quoted as referring to you as, excuse me -- and again, not my words, sir, but a conspiracy theorist of a decade, and described your transformation from someone who once opposed President Trump to now his vice president as an act of political expediency. And I'd like to give you the chance to respond to that, sir.

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT: Well, first of all, if Susie, like -- I'll trust, I'll trust what you said. I haven't looked at the article. I of course have heard about it, but conspiracy theorist. Sometimes I am a conspiracy theorist, but I only believe in the conspiracy theories that are true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: OK. He also said that he is -- he's never seen anything other than loyalty from Susie Wiles. And Abby, I just want to also add that, in addition to Susie Wiles saying that he is a conspiracy in this article. She also said that Vance, because he was very vocally against Donald Trump in the first go round, that he kind of came around to Trump for political reasons. But she also said, If Vance runs for president, he will be the nominee, and I will be one of the first people to support him.

ABBY LIVINGSTON, CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT, PUCK: I mean, this is just an astonishing story, and this isn't just an interview where she said a few things here and there. This is a full Washington burn book that she's done and she's covered all of her bases. And -- but what is fascinating about it is that she is much closer to the storm than most people in Washington. But a lot of the things she's saying are being said by Republicans with ties Capitol Hill. These are the things they're saying privately and she's saying the quiet part out loud.

[12:15:00]

BASH: Yeah. I mean, in a big way. OK. Let's talk about a couple of other -- there's so much in here, so there's part one and part two. So, there's a lot to go through. Let's just do a little policy on Maduro and what's going on with the drug boats and in Venezuela in particular. She did say that this is a war against drugs, but then she also said, quote, he meaning the president wants to keep on blowing boats up until Maduro cries uncle and people way smarter than me on that say he will, AKA regime change.

LERER: Right. And certainly, that been -- has been the focus of speculation around what the White House is doing here. But it's not what the White House is saying, and it would have, you know, foreign policy implications for them to say that out loud. So again, this is another example of her sort of saying the quiet part out loud, sort of confirming what was the widespread speculation about the White House's moves, and it is -- it's really -- it's quite shocking to read it.

BASH: And there -- the other policy issue that she talked about. Well, lots of policy issues. She talked about the fact that the president is not a warmonger, she said, but she does want him to switch back to kitchen table issues, and she expects him to do that. She talked about the deportation process in March, after sending 238 immigrants to Salvadoran prison.

She said, I will concede that we've got to look harder at our process for deportation, Wiles told me at the time. Then, for context, I supported a mother being treated for stage four cancer. Wiles couldn't explain it. It could be an overzealous Border Patrol agent. I don't know. I can't understand how you make that mistake, but somebody did.

And then Brian, there's the issue of score settling, which is a term that she used. She said back in March -- or Chris Whipple said, back in March, I asked Wiles. Did you ever go into Trump and say, look, this is not supposed to be a retribution tour. And she said, yes, I do. We have a loose agreement that there -- I'm not sure if we have this. We have a loose agreement that -- there we go, that the score settling will end before the first 90 days or are over.

STELTER: 90 days?

BASH: Well, first of all, that didn't happen, right? And before you come in, I just want to add one other thing while we're on this topic. What about accusing Letitia James of mortgage fraud? She was asked by Chris Whipple. And then she responded, well, that might be the one retribution.

STELTER: This is what I mean. The scandal is always just saying the truth out loud, just admitting what everyone else knows is going on, what Republicans say in private, and she just happens to have been saying it in front of a tape recorder. And she was saying this over the course of a year, right?

So different interviews, different times that create some context for this. And now she's going to claim, and she is claiming on X that she was taken out of context, that a lot of context was discarded, disregarded. Maybe Whipple will now come out with the tapes, but it does seem like to me a situation where she was in a very candid situation, maybe she was talking, not that she thought she was not on the record because she know the whole time.

Chris Whipple is an author who writes for Vanity Fair, so there's no excuse, but maybe it's one of the situations where you're talking for hours, you're talking in a really casual way, maybe you forget the tape recorder is rolling. I'm wondering if that's the best way to explain some of this material because it is so honest and all on the record.

LERER: But she is a deeply savvy operator.

BASH: Very savvy.

LERER: This is someone who has been around politics for a really long time, and you would think that she's someone that knows at one point in the article, they reference her doing her laundry while she's talking about the divides of the MAGA movement or whatever. And you would think even in that context, she would understand, and particularly, given the administration's -- this administration's approach to the media.

BASH: All right, everybody standby. We are going to go to one of the developing stories that is going on a very, very important one in Providence. A killer is still on the loose. And we have new details on the door-to-door manhunt to catch the suspect behind the Brown University shooting.

Plus, we are standing by for potential charges against the son of legendary Hollywood director Rob Reiner and his wife, Michele. Police say he is responsible for their heinous murders. New Year's Eve live with Anderson and Andy starts today on CNN, and watch on the CNN app.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BASH: Investigators are pursuing a new lead in the Brown University shooting that killed two people and injured nine four days ago. Local police released new video of a person of interest near the scene of the shooting hours before the attack. The FBI says the suspect is around five foot eight with a stocky build.

CNN's chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller joins me now. Nice to see you in person. First, what does the video say to you?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So, the video means a lot. First, you can learn from the video before the shooting, you see he's pacing. After the shooting, you can see he's walking away briskly but not running. Looking not to attract attention.

In the before videos, he's got two black gloves on. In the after video, he's got one glove on, but one bare hand, which is mostly in his pocket, which suggests he may have the weapon in his pocket, and he may be looking to fend off anybody who tries to stop him.

But more importantly, what the videos give us is a head-to-toe picture of the individual from the front and from the side that someone who knows him might recognize. It gives us a picture of his walk, his gait. He's got a slight, you know, limp. You can see as he walks across the street. Those are all things that somebody who is familiar with him and also may have observed odd behavior could cause them to pick up a phone.

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BASH: So, four days in, you know, it seems like a lifetime, particularly for the people of Providence, but in the course of a case like this, it's not necessarily.

MILLER: It's not. And, I mean, it's an art, but it's also a science. But look at Luigi Mangione, right? That was a period of days, but not many days. Look at the Charlie Kirk case, right? That was a period of just short days. Look at both of those cases where the people who called in about people who were wearing masks and you could barely see their face, ended up being people who were very close to them, and said, I think, I know who this is. So that's what they're hoping for in a case like this.

The real question that they're struggling with is the targeting piece, which is, why there? Why then? Why that classroom? Why those kids? And because there's no one identified or in custody, and I know they are looking at a couple of people, but that's also normal as these leads come in. Is this person going to strike at another target?

BASH: You know, I've been thinking a lot about this, because, sadly, school shootings are something that we cover regularly. Almost always there is an attack, and either the person is quickly apprehended, or the person is eliminated, or eliminates himself, because it's almost always a man, a boy, usually a boy in their 20s, because they want to make a point and they have a message, and that's not what we're seeing here. That's surprise you.

MILLER: No. And that makes it -- that makes it very unusual. Usually the person themselves is, you know, the story behind the why. I was bullied, I was fired, I was whatever. In this case, if you do the act to strike out, where is the why? Is there some message that we haven't found yet? Is there something else? But the idea that he did it deliberately, and then quite deliberately, indicating that some planning went into this part, wanted to get away, and wanted to keep getting away.

BASH: And that's -- that gives an important clue to the investigators?

MILLER: Right. But it does beg the why question, which is, you know, if you're doing it to make a statement, what is the point of that without the statement? And that's adding some confusion to this.

BASH: Yeah. John Miller, thank you. Really good to see you.

MILLER: You too.

BASH: Thanks for everything.

MILLER: Thanks, Dana.

BASH: And coming up. We are learning new details about what happened in the hours before Hollywood legend Rob Reiner and his wife Michele were brutally murdered. That's next.

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