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Trump: "Softer Touch" May Be Needed In Immigration Crackdown; Trump Uses Natl Prayer Breakfast To Brag About Record.; Trump: "I Don't Think We're Good At Public Relations"; Chairman Of Major Law Firm Resigns After Epstein Emails Revealed. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired February 05, 2026 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

DANA BASH, CNN HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: From a political strength to a political liability is President Trump coming to terms with the potential fallout of his immigration policies.

I'm Dana Bash. Let's go behind the headlines at Inside Politics.

When it comes to immigration, the political winds aren't blowing President Trump's way right now. The White House is noticing. For more than a week, his administration has tried to adjust its rhetoric on the crackdown in Minneapolis. Yesterday, border czar Tom Homan announced 700 agents would immediately leave Minneapolis. And then the president addressed a tactical term, certainly a rhetorical term, in an interview with NBC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Speaking of Minneapolis, what did you learn?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I learned that maybe we can use a little bit of a softer touch. I'm not happy with the two incidents. It's not, you know, it's both of them, not one or the other. He was not an angel, and she was not an angel. You know, you look at some tapes from back, but still, I'm not happy with what happened there. It should have not happened. It was very sad to me. It was a very sad incident. Two incidents. I hate it. I hate even talking about it. Two people out of tens of thousands, OK, and you get bad publicity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I'm joined by a terrific group of reporters here at the table. Zolan, what are you hearing from your sources at the White House on this?

ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you do have that that interview there, which match -- which matches some softer rhetoric that we saw from the president after his top officials initially came out after the Pretti shooting and used terms like domestic terrorism and assassin. You saw a little bit of a pivot.

But I also do think this is part of a pattern here that you see from the president, where he almost has this two pronged approach to his messaging, where at times, he's calling for deescalation, and then in the next breath, he's doubling down on the same operation and saying that he was right all along. Even last week, when he started to soften his rhetoric a bit and call for deescalation.

The next night, I think on Thursday night, he reshared a Truth Social post using the term domestic terrorism to also describe Pretti, right? Using -- then he in his own Truth Social post, he said that -- he called, described him as an insurrectionist, right? And now we're back to again this softer rhetoric.

On the ground the administration, what I'm hearing from sources, they're focused on Tom Homan's talks with Minnesota. And they are actually pleased with that progress, because they're getting expanded access to these jails, the local county jails for immigration enforcement at this time.

So, it's almost two different tracks here. You have the president responding to the politics, sometimes in two different ways. And then you have Tom Homan on the ground, and them actually making progress in terms of the immigration enforcement, even if they're -- the headline is the pull back of the immigration agents.

RAMESH PONNURU, EDITOR, NATIONAL REVIEW: One of the things that the president said was that ICE was focused on illegal immigrants who have also committed other criminal offenses. Now that's a long-standing debate in this administration. That has been where Homan has wanted to concentrate. It's not been where Miller or Kristi Noem -- Stephen Miller or Kristi Noem who wanted to concentrate.

And what the president said does not match the reporting of what the administration has actually been doing. All of the reporting suggests that Miller and Noem have had the whip hand here, and that has not been the focus of ICE.

BASH: Yeah. I'm glad that you mentioned that because -- and you were alluding to this as well, Zolan. The question always is, but especially with this issue, the difference between the way that the president sounds on any given day, or at least part of any given sentence, and what is actually happening on the ground?

Yes, 700 law enforcement, ICE agents, border patrol agents, are going to leave Minneapolis. But then what and what happens in other cities? And the president, as he is, want to do, gives a tell in the way that he approaches these things. This is an example. He talked about it in the prism or through the prism of public relations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think we do a phenomenal job, but I don't think we're good at public relations.

[12:05:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does that mean? You've said that a couple times now. What do you mean by that? TRUMP: We don't sell the great job that we're doing. We don't do a good public relations job. That's why I'm doing the interview with you today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We appreciate it.

TRUMP: I'm going to help my people. You know, PR, public relations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEIGH ANN CALDWELL, CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, PUCK: Yeah. The president definitely thinks he is the best messenger for everything. I mean, he said something similar previously. He said, look, we are doing a lot of great things, as far as locking up the criminals, deporting the criminals. But his administration, he argues, is not highlighting that part of it, that the bad things that have happened, like the murder of two people, the death of two people, two U.S. citizens are the ones that things that are getting all of the attention.

But the reality is, is that there's a lot of unease from Republicans who have to face voters in November. They're going to be the ones who are responsible and are going to be held accountable for the president's and Stephen Miller's policies, not the president. He's not on the ballot.

And so, Republicans I talked to on the Hill are really leaning into Tom Homan. They think that he is going to be kind of the savior of this immigration policy that has run off the rails. And they are betting all of their cards that he's going to be able to rein it in, in some respect, to be able to at least present itself as a more respectable organization.

BASH: Let me just back up what you're hearing from your sources with some new data, which is clearly what your Republican sources are also seeing probably internally as well. This is from a new Ipsos poll. The question about the use of force in Alex Pretti shooting and this is just among independents. Excessive 54 percent ,necessary 14, not sure 32, 54 being the key there. Then same question when it comes to Renee Good about the same, excessive 53 percent.

And then there's something that we haven't talked about in a long time, but I do think it's interesting, is in a different poll, Quinnipiac poll, which is a question about whether or not undocumented immigrants should get a pathway to legal status. 61 percent, so six in 10 people say yes, which is so antithetical to the approach that the president has.

KANNO-YOUNGS: Yeah. I mean, I think what we're all getting at is like, the president says, this is a public relations' problem. But it seems the problem is there's a break between what they say and the reality on the ground, right? And Americans are starting to notice based off of these numbers. It's one thing to talk about mass deportations, and cracking down on illegal crossings during the campaign, when it's a campaign slogan. This is now what has come with that, right? These are the tactics that have come with that. And now Americans are starting -- are really faced with a choice of yes, this is what you supported in large numbers during the campaign. But do you like the reality that has now come with this? I think the numbers on the legal pathway are really interesting to --

BASH: Let's put those back up.

KANNO-YOUNGS: -- the numbers on the legal pathway are really interesting. When we were in an interview with the president in the Oval Office, we actually asked him if he would be open to working with Congress on some kind of comprehensive immigration reform. And he said that he was interested in that.

Now, of course, we have seen no evidence of actual movement by this White House to work with Congress on something like that. Once again, it's kind of the contradictions of this president when it comes to immigration.

PONNURU: Yeah. I'm not sure that the president can bring his entire administration together on comprehensive immigration reform, let alone Congress. But I think what we've seen here, stepping back for a moment, is two successive administrations that have overread one moment in public opinion.

Trump one sees a public move left on immigration, more tolerance of immigration, more tolerance of even illegal immigration, and the Biden administration reacts to that by basically opening the borders. And then there's a reaction to that where the public swings far to the right and Trump comes back into office thinking, well, the wind is at my back. I can do anything. And it turns out that the public is not permanently in that corner either.

BASH: Just before we go to break, I want to show some examples of the president this morning. He was at a National Prayer Breakfast, and he spoke, and he talked a little bit about prayer and about faith, but he talked a lot about other things as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: This moron, no matter what it is. This guy named Thomas Massie. There's something wrong with him. One of my favorite people, President Bukele of El Salvador. They do a very humane job, but they're very strong prisons. I'm not a dictator, but they were like dictators. They were like the Gestapo. They were arresting people for going to church. We have the troops and they are central casting.

They took trend de Arabia, and honestly, I don't want to say this, but they beat the crap out of them. Then they say, Donald Trump is using the Justice Department to get even. And I don't, but wouldn't I have a right to?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[12:10:00]

BASH: A couple of things, Leigh Ann. First of all, Gestapo, he was alluding to COVID restrictions. He was president when COVID hit. And Thomas Massie, who he hit during this National Prayer Breakfast, responded by saying that he called him a moron at the National Prayer Breakfast this morning, because I'm fighting for what he promised the American people.

CALDWELL: Yeah. I mean, obviously this is a pattern of the president. We know that he goes, he says what he wants, even in a prayerful setting. But the reality is, is that he's spending a lot of attention on his perceived enemies, even the ones inside the Republican Party, like Thomas Massie, who he is determined to make sure loses his reelection in the primary process. So, you know, the president is still on his grievance campaign, which I don't expect it to go away anytime soon, but that is where we are right now.

BASH: All right. Up next. President Trump is deploying federal agents in the hunt for Savannah Guthrie's mom, Nancy. We're going to break down new details from the White House and also from law enforcement. Plus, Kamala Harris relaunches her old campaign social media account, seemingly with a gen alpha joke -- that we think went away in 2025.

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[12:15:00]

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BASH: The heartbreaking disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, mother of TODAY show anchor, Savannah Guthrie, is gripping the nation, including the White House. President Trump posted on Truth Social last night, quote. I spoke with Savannah Guthrie and let her know that I'm directing all federal law enforcement to be at the families and local law enforcement's complete disposal immediately.

CNN's Kristen Holmes is at the White House. Kristen, what are you hearing from your sources there about this?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Dana. They are saying that the administration has already started sending federal law enforcement, that this is an interagency response that that means that there are law enforcement agents from several different agencies that are going to be on the ground. They are there to assist either Guthrie and her family or the local law enforcement as they try to figure out where Savannah Guthrie's mother is.

Now this is not the first time that President Trump has inserted himself into a high-profile investigation. We, of course, remember his role in the murder of Charlie Kirk. He was talking about the investigation. He was posting about it. To one point, he was actually giving details on where the investigation stood.

He also commented after that shooting at Brown University, saying, incorrectly at the time that the suspect had been caught, but then quickly correcting it, saying that he was speaking off of an old brief. And then we do all remember when President Trump did weigh in on the murder of Rob Reiner, on his -- and his wife, although that was not to give any kind of update on investigation. It was instead to insult Reiner, who had been a Trump critic.

But one thing we'll be watching for is how involved the president himself gets in this. Does he start posting any information that he is getting from the investigation? He knows it's high profile and this kind of situation, he likes to be in front of that.

BASH: Kristen, thank you so much. Really appreciate that. Now to that anguish plea from Savannah Guthrie and her siblings. Here's part of the video they released on social media in the hopes of reaching potential abductors and their mother, Nancy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, ANCHOR, "TODAY": We live in a world where voices and images are easily manipulated. We need to know without a doubt that she is alive and that you have her. We want to hear from you, and we are ready to listen. Please reach out to us. Everyone is looking for you, mommy, everywhere. We will not rest. Your children will not rest until we are together again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Absolutely gutting. Let's now turn to chief -- CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller. What does that video tell you, John, about the potential credibility of these ransom notes sent to media outlets?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, it tells us that the authorities and the family believe that the notes contained enough information that appeared to be credible, knowledgeable about the abduction that they are responding by trying to make what has been a one-way conversation. A ransom demand sent out to three different media organizations into a two-way conversation. You heard Savannah Guthrie say, we need to talk to you. They are reaching out to implore the kidnappers to make contact with them.

BASH: And Savannah hinted at the role of AI deep fakes in her message. How do investigators determine if an image or video or an email to media outlets is real or not?

MILLER: Well, I think by pre-staging that in her statement, what she's really saying is, we need to make contact with you, then we want to talk to her. We want to talk to our mom. We want to talk to Nancy Guthrie. So that we know that A, you actually have her, and B, that she's OK. Those are kind of the proof of life standards where someone is demanding a ransom. You want to know that they're actually the right people to be talking to?

[12:20:00]

BASH: Yeah. I want to play another part of the video from Savannah and her siblings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTHRIE: Our mom is a kind, faithful, loyal, fiercely loving woman of goodness and light. She is funny, spunky and clever. She has grandchildren that adore her and crowd around her and cover her with kisses. She loves fun and adventure. She is a devoted friend. She is full of kindness and knowledge. Talk to her, and you'll see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: John, I know that part of the video stands out to you. Explain why?

MILLER: Well, I mean, the message there is, you've got our mom, and you're a kidnapper, and this is kidnap for ransom, if you are, in fact, if this message is real. But she's not -- she's more than a commodity. She's not a product. She's not just a person you might have locked in a room in the basement with a price tag on her. She is a person who loves, who is loved in return. She's funny, she's a good person.

And the urging of go talk to her. We all know, no matter what our differences are, it's hard to hate up close. And if they have objectified her as just a pathway to money, talking to her may make that -- may make that relationship shift or change. It's a logical thing to ask.

BASH: Yeah, it sure is. John, thank you so much for being here and helping us work through it based on your very deep knowledge and your law enforcement experience.

MILLER: Thanks, Dana.

BASH: And if you have any information about Nancy Guthrie's disappearance. Please call the Pima County sheriff's tip line at 520- 351-4900 or 1-800-CALL-FBI. Up next. The Epstein files and the fallout that is growing from them. The latest resignation and the world leader fighting for his political life. Here's a hint. It's not here in the U.S.

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[12:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: An abrupt resignation overnight, directly tied to the Epstein files. Brad Karp, the chairman of top law firm, Paul Weiss, abruptly resigned as chairman last night. Karp's 2015 email profusely thanking Jeffrey Epstein for "an evening I'll never forget" was among the documents released.

Karp wrote, quote, "Recent reporting has created a distraction and has placed a focus on me that is not in the best interest of the firm." Now, this week, that firm stated that Karp had attended two group dinners but never witnessed or participated in any misconduct. Karp was the face of a major deal with the White House last year.

Paul Weiss was the first major law firm to pledge pro bono work to the Trump administration to the tune of $40 million. It was all to avoid punishment for lawyers who had investigated Trump before reelection.

Our smart reporters are here. I mean, that is pretty wild, Leigh Ann?

CALDWELL: Yeah. Especially given the events of the last year, and the way that he, you know, he gave in to the administration, and then now this is what is happening to him. This might be the first of many dominoes to fall, or one of the first of many dominoes to fall with the Epstein papers. But there is a lot out there that we haven't -- that is still being unveiled, that people are still combing through. And the fact that there is also a lot of people who have escaped any sort of accountability as well with the Epstein files is a whole other issue too.

But, I mean, I can have gone in so many directions as far as Karp is concerned, because, you know, I just moderated a panel earlier this week with the Justice Department official who resigned, refusing to drop the case against Eric Adams. And just saying how hard it is for so many lawyers these days who have any even tangential ties to Democrats or the Bidens or the previous Justice Department to get jobs, because everyone is so fearful of the Trump administration still.

BASH: So, let's go across the pond and look at what's happening in Great Britain. We're just going to put up some of the headlines right now, and they are about the now former British ambassador to the U.S., Peter Mandelson, who was pulled when there was just a little bit of news about him being part of the Epstein files.

And the reason why this is now kind of the fallout is bleeding over to the prime minister himself, Keir Starmer, Ramesh, is because Starmer appointed Mandelson, and the two of them have, you know, a close political relationship.

PONNURU: Starmer appointed him, even though Mandelson had a long history of being linked or at least rumored to be involved in various corruption scandals. So, it's not as though Starmer didn't know anything. And in fact, Starmer has now said that he knew about the ties to Epstein, but that Mandelson had lied about the extent and nature of those ties.

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