Return to Transcripts main page

Inside Politics

Hegseth Fires Navy Secretary in Middle of Naval Blockade of Iran; RFK Jr. Testifies to Congress 7 Times in Marathon Week; New Thriller Dives Into Tech, Politics, Media, & Battle For Truth; Kalshi Suspends 3 Candidates For Betting on Their Own Races. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired April 23, 2026 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEWS CENTRAL ANCHOR: -- if that might start to have an impact there on voter perceptions and whether or not they'll start to, you know, sort of question the efficiency of the whole operation.

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: Well, on that note, this is not a dismissal in a vacuum. Maybe these are different reasons. I mean, each dismissal has a -- has its own set of reasons, but it's not in a vacuum in that you have seen a lot of turnover and turmoil in the Pentagon, even and especially since this war began.

We're going to put up on the screen the ousters of top military leaders. This is before the war, but when President Trump came back into office, he started with getting rid of the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and then it went down from there.

ABBY LIVINGSTON, CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT, PUCK: You know, I think back to President Obama's firing of Stanley McChrystal and how it was this very dignified walk, and these are very brutal firings. And there's a really smart piece of political wisdom from Chris Matthews. People don't mind being used, they mind being discarded.

And this can have unintended political consequences, but also this is the Real Housewives-ification of the Pentagon in the middle of a war. And my question is, first the voters will start to push back, but when do the hawks on the hill who've devoted their careers to the military readiness start showing signs of losing patience?

BASH: Yes, it's a good question. And I do want to just differentiate just a little bit because, you know, when I talked about C.Q. Brown and other members of the military who have been ousted, most of them are members of the military who served or are currently serving. In the case of Phelan, who was just let go yesterday, he is a businessman.

BERMAN: Yes.

BASH: No prior military service. He is somebody who gave a lot of money, too. EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, REPORTER, NOTUS: Well, yes, but also this is all part of, you know, Hegseth, when he came in, promised a big reform inside the Pentagon.

BASH: Yes.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: We're seeing a totally different Defense Department put back on a step it had not been in a long time. And the results, like John is mentioning, the results of this have to sort of start to show themselves. We've seen a lot of firings. We saw some members of Congress be upset this week when they banned the -- or they got rid of the requirement for the flu vaccine.

But we have not seen folks really like sort of rallying to this military, especially looking at the way that, you know, that this war has gone. So I think that's a big problem for them to sort of turn these reforms into something tangible they can go and sell to the American people.

BASH: Speaking of vaccines, thank you for that segue.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: You're welcome.

BASH: Coming up, we're going to take stock of Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s multiple congressional hearings this week and the state of the MAHA coalition heading into the midterms.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:37:06]

BASH: Seven hearings in seven days. That's how many times Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. faced lawmakers on Capitol Hill this past week. He was pressed on recent nominations like a pro-vaccine director of the CDC. He was asked to explain his social media hype videos like the one where he was exercising with Kid Rock that was not AI. And he defended his guidance on vaccines.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RUIZ (D), CALIFORNIA: Mr. Secretary, if Dr. Schwartz is confirmed, will you commit on the record today to implement whatever vaccine guidance she issues without interference?

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: I'm not going to make that kind of commitment.

RUIZ: Because you --

SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN (D), NEW HAMPSHIRE: Does the President know about this self-promotion campaign that you're carrying out with the official HHS resources?

KENNEDY: I didn't know about a number of those videos.

SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R), WYOMING: So I'll ask you again, are you taking steps now to ensure vaccine guidance is clear, evidence-based and trustworthy? And what those steps would be?

KENNEDY: Absolutely, that's what we're doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: My panel is back. John Berman?

BERMAN: I am regularly trying to figure out where the Robert F. Kennedy Jr. coalition is and where it's going. By that, I mean, how long? You know, Donald Trump, the President, has already gone through three cabinet secretaries. Where will he rank in terms of churn?

And what does the President get in hanging on to him for a longer period of time? What group is he appealing to? I could see why he reached out to him in the campaign, why the alliance was made. But as time goes on, you're beginning to see some discomfort, I think, in the White House with some of the statements that the secretary is making about vaccines.

I do wonder in the way that these hearings are pulled off there. You know, the President's big on performances. Is he happy with the way that these hearings have gone the last week and how the secretary has performed, the answers he's given? And when -- I just genuinely don't know what the draw is.

BASH: Well, you know, what's really interesting is that the MAHA movement, of which Kennedy kind of became a de facto leader, excuse me, is complicated and it is not one that is completely in line, especially on the issue of vaccines. And you mentioned kind of trying to distance on vaccines with everybody in the White House knew RFK Jr.'s position on it.

Our team, Adam Cancryn and Sarah Owermohle, have a great story about the pick this week of Erica Schwartz to be CDC director. And inside the White House, we just need -- this is what they were talking about, "We just need someone who's not crazy." Erica Schwartz is somebody who supports vaccines, which sounds like duh, but it's not a duh in this environment with this HHS Secretary.

LIVINGSTON: So much of the midterms are going to be about independent voters, not about getting the face out on the Republican side. And independent voters tend to support vaccines.

[12:40:04]

And so my question was, the most interesting soundbite you just played was from Senator Barrasso who's not just a doctor, but he's in leadership. And so, does him being something of an outlier, is that a place where Hill Republicans can create a foil within the White House if they need to make -- create distance?

BASH: Then there's the whole issue of the measles --

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BASH: -- which is related to vaccines. Listen to an exchange that RFK Jr. had with Lisa Blunt Rochester of Delaware.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER (D), DELAWARE: Does the President know there is a historic measles surge occurring nationwide?

KENNEDY: You want me to answer with people --

ROCHESTER: The question -- it's just a very simple question. Yes --

KENNEDY: You just want a grandstand.

ROCHESTER: You're going to get your opportunity.

KENNEDY: You want a grandstand?

ROCHESTER: Can you answer the question?

KENNEDY: I can answer that question.

ROCHESTER: Yes or no --

KENNEDY: I didn't cause the measles epidemic.

ROCHESTER: -- does the --

KENNEDY: It started before I came in.

ROCHESTER: Sir, does the President know there is a historic measles surge occurring nationwide?

KENNEDY: I'm sure he does.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So let's look at the facts and the data. This is according to the CDC. So far in 2026, U.S. measles cases are 1,748, and we're only four months into the year. 2025, it was 2,288. The year before that, 2024, it was only 285. Omar?

JIMENEZ: Yes. And, you know, we were talking about the perspective of members of Congress who are also doctors. Senator Bill Cassidy also comes --

BASH: Yes.

JIMENEZ: -- to mind of Louisiana, and obviously he was critical because he voted to confirm RFK Jr. when the confirmation process was going. But among the many hearings that we saw, I actually wrote down on the topic of measles, he said that, "Anytime children are dying from vaccine-preventable diseases or we have an increased incidence of reports, whatever the disease is, there should be focus."

And so I just wonder in the minds of, again, these medical doctor senators, medical doctor Congress folks as well, as you get closer to the midterms and you start to have to draw some hard lines against some real numbers, measles among them, where does that line actually arrive? Another thing that came to mind, you talked about Dr. Erica Schwartz and the CDC.

BASH: Yes.

JIMENEZ: You know, the CDC came out with or didn't come out with the study saying that visits to emergency rooms are halved when administered by the COVID-19 vaccine.

BASH: Yes.

JIMENEZ: And even if it was shelved for technical reasons in some way or another, the perception alone is damaging, I think, to the CDC.

BASH: Just one bit of Inside Politics reporting --

JIMENEZ: Yes.

BASH: -- which is -- it's -- this is fun/interesting, I think. So have you all seen this viral picture of AOC and RFK Jr.? And this was taken by a health reporter for The Wall Street Journal, Liz Essley Whyte. I wanted to know what they were talking about. Everybody did.

I sent AOC a text, and here's what she said. She said, "I was really drilling down on the additional $13 billion in public dollars he is giving to the UnitedHealthcare and others while UHC is under criminal investigation for Medicare fraud. He just admitted this." He's talking about -- she's talking about what happened in the hearing prior. "He admitted publicly that they gave it to them because they threatened to cut services. I was letting him know I'm not letting it go."

So maybe it's not, you know, the sexiest conversation in terms of, you know, the politics. But it's --

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: How old (INAUDIBLE)?

BASH: -- but it is --

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Yes.

BASH: -- because it's very substantive, and it is one of the issues that people care the most about, which don't always make headlines, which is the cost of their health care and also the insurance companies.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: This whole election is an affordability election.

BASH: Exactly.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: I should have said --

BASH: Exactly.

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: -- that's great reporting. That's like a great --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. MCMORRIS-SANTORO: -- mystery solved because it was like a really good, like, really getting into it. But, I mean, this is, you know, there's a bunch of different politics rolling around here because you talk about some of those numbers with the diseases and things.

There is a swath of Americans who are vaccine skeptical that has grown. And you've seen this White House -- this administration be challenged with what to do with that. You have RFK in there, who is obviously, you know, a leader among groups like that.

But then they have had these vaccine, these pro-vaccine people come in, the CDC, you know, the last CDC chair, you know, Susan Monarez, she left over this argument over vaccines as well. So you're watching this White House also trying to figure out how to navigate these politics. And it's a very complicated thing all over the country, really.

BASH: Because then you're making people in the MAHA movement who are very anti-vaccine mad.

All right, everybody, stand by. Thank you.

Coming up, we have a sneak peek of a new thriller that feels very much ripped from the headlines. It dives headfirst into politics, media and the struggle to define what's true.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:49:02]

BASH: A rising political star watches his reputation implode on social media and cable news. In this case, it's fiction. But the new thriller "PH-1" feels all too real in 2026. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK KASSEN, ACTOR & PRODUCER, PH-1: Hello?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, Senator. I'm afraid you're going to have to put a stop to work for the next 90 minutes.

KASSEN: OK. What are we doing for the next 90 minutes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm giving you the chance to cleanse the blood from your hands.

KASSEN: Freddy? Freddy? Freddy?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not without sympathy. The social media, online news outlets, they're not healthy. That thing that became a post has now turned into a fact. Facts are really hard to run from, Senator.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: I just have anxiety again watching that.

[12:50:00]

Joining me now is Mark Kassen, actor, writer, producer of this new terrific film, "PH-1." Thank you for being here.

KASSEN: Thank you for having me.

BASH: I'm trying to figure out how do I ask you questions without giving a lot away, so --

KASSEN: Yes, that's a trick.

BASH: I know. So, there are lots of similarities between what we just saw and what this fictitious movie is and what's happening in real life with political storms, with media storms. What were you trying to accomplish in the message?

KASSEN: Well, you know, I've always been a big fan of thrillers, thrillers especially of the 70s. You know, there's a reason that art tends to mimic itself every handful of decades. We're in a time right now where we're a little cynical about our government messaging and media.

Today, media is technology as well and how we're being fed information. And I thought that's a great character in the film. Like, one of the characters is really the media. And I wanted to find a way to do something super entertaining that would comment on that in a little bit of a way that might make people think about their own behavior.

BASH: Yes. And, again, technology here, which we all use in a way to get -- especially politicians, to get information out, to shape narratives --

KASSEN: Yes.

BASH: -- he quite literally became a prisoner of that technology.

KASSEN: I mean, we all are, right? I mean, whether we like it or not. You know, back in the day, you know, I've said this before, people would criticize you based on how you got your information, if you chose to watch Fox, if you chose to watch MSNBC or whomever, not to put a blight on any of those places, but you made a choice.

Today it chooses you. And it's choosing you not necessarily based on just what kind of information it thinks you want, but what will make you stay on your device. So it's designed to keep you more engaged with the thing. So we're kind of all prisoners, right? It's on us now then to take a step away, to do something about it outside of what's being fed to us.

BASH: You say that we've all made a Faustian bargain with the world of media and technology.

KASSEN: We have, right? I mean, look, I got here through looking at an app to tell me the best way to get here, you know what I mean? I've said this before, I'm a lazy listener because I listen to Spotify and it feeds me the same mixes and I've got a record collection that's gathering dust. It's my fault, you know, not the device's fault.

BASH: But it's one thing for music, it's another thing for information and politics.

KASSEN: 100 percent. I mean, look, your statement -- your previous segment, you just said something about a moment that went viral that you checked up on, right? So now something as silly as a tweet, and I said it in the movie, becomes a fact.

So this medium that was kind of best suited for cat videos and love memes is now also how we get our news. And real news happens from that. You know, I don't know your business really inside and out by any means, but a lot of the digging into stories in the development seems to come from people combing through Reddit and message boards.

I mean, I've felt it as an actor, as a person in the media, how people then find a little nivet (ph), you know, and then they pull on that string --

BASH: Right.

KASSEN: -- and then it becomes an article.

BASH: Well, you do play a politician, a senator, an independent senator, which is a whole other conversation. But you do have offscreen experience in the political world. You started A Starting Point. It's a nonpartisan civic engagement platform and you founded it with your fellow actor, Chris Evans. Did that experience shape the writing and the production of this film?

KASSEN: Massively. I mean, you know, watching -- and, you know, again, if anything, it's more of a comment on the media than the politicians. But watching the dance between the politicians and the media and watching these elected officials as they get elected, some of them for the first time, who start more times than not with very earnest beginnings.

And then watching how they work to become known and then sort of play into the character of how they're known and what that does to kind of change themselves. And how it's easier and easier to skip over small steps along the way just to keep their jobs. And sort of that dance. And then the media requests that of them.

And the media needs it as well, right, because you've got a show. People might change the channel, please don't. But, you know, and you need to do something to keep them engaged.

BASH: Yes.

KASSEN: And so that cyclical Faustian bargain between the elected official and the media, I watched for six years of doing A Starting Point. It was wild to sort of have that inform the entire story.

BASH: Well, A Starting Point is a very important organization.

KASSEN: Thank you. BASH: I'm glad that you did start it and so glad that you made this movie. It's really terrific.

KASSEN: Thank you, Dana. I really appreciate it.

BASH: A sneak peek. And "PH-1" is currently in limited theaters but is available to stream everywhere starting on May 8th. You really want to watch this.

Mark Kassen, thank you.

Up next, three political candidates penalized for betting on their own campaigns. Why? One of them says, well, it was just a stunt.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:59:15]

BASH: Topping our political radar prediction betting market, Kalshi is suspending three political candidates for betting on their own races. A Democrat running for an open Minnesota House seat called a $50 bet a, quote, "mistake," claiming he was curious how it worked.

An Independent Virginia Senate candidate bet that he would announce a political run. Then he did. He told CNN it was a stunt to draw attention to illegal gambling. And a Texas Republican bet on his own House primary. He lost in March.

Kalshi says the trades were all less than $100, but count as political insider trading and equal five-year suspensions. And we should note CNN has a partnership with Kalshi and uses its data to cover events.

Thank you so much for joining Inside Politics. CNN News Central starts right now.