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Trump Marks America's 250th Birthday During Heat Wave, Storms; Far Left Candidates Knock Off Incumbents In New York, Colorado. An Inside Look at America's Newest Presidential Library; America's 250th Anniversary Evokes Different Emotions Than Others. Aired 8-9a ET

Aired July 05, 2026 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:23]

JEFF ZELENY, CNN HOST: Good morning. And welcome to INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. I'm Jeff Zeleny, in today for Manu Raju.

President Donald Trump started promising a huge America 250 celebration the minute he returned to the White House. And despite the brutal heat, the storms and the lightning, he pretty much got his wish this weekend.

Last night, celebration here in Washington encountered a series of weather delays, but Trump stuck it out and delivered a 40-minute address ending just before midnight, where he praised America.

But the speech also, of course, drew sharply partisan with Trump slamming communism and also pushing the Save Act.

Let's break all of this down this morning with our excellent panel, "Politico's" Dasha Burns, "Semafor's" David Weigel and Tia Mitchell of "The Atlanta Journal Constitution".

Good morning and happy 5th of July --

DASHA BURNS, POLITICO WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF: Good morning.

ZELENY: -- everyone.

So the speech went very late. Obviously, it was hot and stormy, but he pulled it off once again. This was a speech the president clearly wanted to give last night.

BURNS: He did. And in classic Trump form, it was the pageantry. It was the presidency. And it was Trumpism and the MAGA worldview all wrapped in one. What he got was a made for television event that really wrapped up sort of classic American iconography, the crowds, the patriotism, the military celebrations, and the Trump worldview.

ZELENY: I mean, he clearly was talking about this. I mean, we can recall ever since he came into office, he said, you know, how serendipitous it was that the 250 was happening during his second term in office. The World Cup is happening. But he did not really use this as a moment to unify the country. David, you were watching this. Do you think that was a squandered opportunity or was that by design, to use this in a Trumpian way?

DAVID WEIGEL, SEMAFOR NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: Well, by design and by belief, you also saw counter-programming, which you don't usually see on the 4th of July from a number of Democrats, including the mayor of New York, governor of Maryland, and Democrats realizing that the president for the next two and a half years has. This pulpit can define the issues, not just the Republican Party runs on, but the issues that all politics are based on.

And what you saw in Wes Moore's response or argument against nationalism, you saw in response a very pro-immigrant, literally surrounded by new citizens argument about what America stands for. And they did not have the backdrop that you're talking about. They did not have the biggest fireworks show of all time.

No, he knows that he can he can define the news cycle and what Americans are talking about. And he did so. That's -- that's more important than the Republican Party right now than unifying people.

ZELENY: And we clearly are seeing a theme emerge. I was with the president at Mount Rushmore on Friday night. We heard it last night. Communism repeated again and again.

He said this, "America will never be a communist country. We can only lose the midterms if we allow ourselves to lose the midterms. If we are foolish, stupid and unwise."

Tia, we're hearing a lot of communism talk. What is this all about?

TIA MITCHELL, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION: So I think it's interesting. Of course, we know that the trying to paint the left as too progressive, too woke communism is all part of kind of not just Trump, but Republicans in general. A lot of their midterm messaging. I think the problem is the Democrats that he's targeting these new Democratic socialists that are starting to win primaries and quite frankly, causing some hand-wringing even among their most -- their actual party, they're not saying they're communists. They don't use the word communism. They use the word socialism.

But apparently, some internal polling Trump is seeing shows that socialism doesn't have the same bite as communism, I feel like. So that's why he's calling them communists. And so I think that's what it reflects.

But again, I don't know if it has the same bite because the Democrats he's targeting themselves say, well, we're not communists.

BURNS: Well, and they want the attacks from Trump. I mean, there's nothing better for a Democratic candidate right now than to have the ire of the president.

ZELENY: I mean, it is clear that we are seeing this midterm election strategy, and the midterms are four months or four months from Friday. We're seeing it unfold right before our eyes.

But, David, as you were saying, that Democrats did respond and a couple of the speeches caught our eye. Wes Moore, the governor of Maryland, he said this today, "The very premise of patriotism is under attack." He said its meaning is being narrowed. Its purpose is being distorted. We cannot let that happen.

Why is so important for Governor Moore and others to weigh in yesterday? And what did you make of his remarks?

WEIGEL: Yes. Governor Moore, who says he's not running for president, but does want to be part of this national conversation whenever he -- whenever he can.

ZELENY: No one's running for president in '26, until they are in '27?

WEIGEL: No, absolutely. I think it's a. So the goal of every party in power is make the. Make the midterm a choice between two visions. And Democrats are actually somewhat engaged on that.

But you're right. The left is actually defining a lot of what they stand for. And you have Democrats like Moore who are center left, but not -- would not -- never call themselves socialists trying to find a path through this.

That acknowledging -- and he did this in his speech at -- Chris Murphy does in his book, acknowledging that Americans feel like everything is harder than it used to be. Things are more expensive. It used to be they look at their kids, they worry that their kids are not going to have all the luck that they had in their lives, and the answer cannot be Trump. It cannot be collectivization like Zohran Mamdani has talked about in the past.

So, has any Democrat broken through and defined what the party stands for, the way that Mamdani has? They have not. But they're trying.

MITCHELL: I think they're also -- Democrats are trying hard to redefine patriotism, or at least come up with a sense of patriotism that feels authentic to Democrats --

WEIGEL: Yes.

MITCHELL: -- and doesn't allow Republicans alone to be the party of patriotism. And so I think that's something we also saw in Governor Moore's speech.

ZELENY: And that was a through line through every Democratic address, trying to sort of reclaim or also talk about patriotism.

We noticed this from Governor Gavin Newsom in California. He said this, "A corrupt and unstable president is forcing us to ask a once unimaginable question. Do we still have a government that belongs to the people? He doesn't care about you. He doesn't care about America. He hardly cares about his own political party."

"This is one man," Newsom says, "trying to do our American self- government. What no king and no foreign power has ever managed to do so." Obviously, a slightly sharper point there than Governor Moore. But are we seeing the Democratic primary also play out in real time at this moment?

BURNS: Yeah. No, absolutely. And I think this anniversary of America is a prime moment for Democrats to exactly do this, to try to figure out how to reclaim patriotism, how to reclaim the American flag, because so much of this patriotic iconography has really been gotten this -- these undertones of Republicanism, of the right of conservatism.

And for folks like Gavin Newsom, for anyone that wants to sit in the Oval Office, eventually, potent -- soon, they -- they need to figure that out.

ZELENY: And all of this is coming as some interesting numbers are coming in about what people are feeling to be an American, proud to be an American or not.

Let's take a look at this Gallup poll that was out asking people if they are extremely proud to be an American. Only 55 percent of U.S. adults say they're extremely proud to be an American in a 2001, but now, it is 33 percent.

Dave, what do you make of that? Is the partisanship just seeping into the question of patriotism here?

WEIGEL: It has, and Trump has -- has a way of polarizing issues and the entirety of American discourse around himself. That's a lot of what this is a response to. Democrats have talked about these celebrations as a scandal, the creation of Freedom 250 as an alternative that can make a lot of untraceable money to the America 250 the Congress set up, I would not be surprised to see Democrats, if they take the House and the Senate investigate that in the next year.

There might be recriminations about the way America celebrate, but this is a change for the party. It was the last time they had an open primary in 2019, 2020. They were -- that was the inauguration of land acknowledgments that was taking Jefferson and Jackson's name off of party dinners actually happened a couple of years before. That was the real founding of America 1619.

That is not how they talk anymore. But some of that is in how the base, the Democratic Party thinks that Trump won because the country is fundamentally flawed. There are Democrats who want to win who were saying that cannot be the argument. That could be an argument maybe in Ann Arbor, in Berkeley, it cannot be our party's argument.

MITCHELL: Well, I would argue, though, there are Black people who have been arguing these types of things way before the age of Donald Trump. The difference is, can you make that argument and still be proud of your country, still be proud of the progress, still be proud that things are possible, and that you can criticize your government in hopes that things get better.

And I think that's the part of the American dream that many Black and Brown people have, that they feel is being stymied by the Trump administration, which makes it more difficult for them to say, "I love this country".

ZELENY: And one thing that was also so notable this week was what President Trump was flying around on that brand new Air Force One from the Qatari royal family. It really happening at the same time that we're learning a lot more about the wealth that he has acquired over the last year.

If you look at these numbers, it is pretty shocking. The cryptocurrency, the resort related income, the Trump watches, the bible, et cetera. But cryptocurrency, $1.1 billion.

Dasha, does this matter in the midterm elections? And if not, why not?

BURNS: If -- it can matter if Democrats know how to message it and are relentless about it, which is what Jon Ossoff in Georgia has been doing this nonstop. He has been relentless, bringing it all back to what calls the grift of the Trump administration.

ZELENY: Running for Senate in Georgia.

BURNS: Running for Senate in Georgia, and making his case about affordability and juxtaposing that with exactly what you just put up on the screen there.

ZELENY: I mean, it is pretty extraordinary when you think about the first term. There was so much discussion about how much money is the Trump family making at the Trump hotel? I mean, that is peanuts compared to what we're talking about right now.

As you travel around the country, do you hear people talking about this or is it just so much it's hard to sort of process it all?

WEIGEL: Well, Trump has taken advantage of a -- I think you saw it in that poll, too -- cynicism about the way the country works that Democrats feel, I think they're not wrong, is out of proportion to how corrupt our politics actually is. They'll often hear rebuttal, well, you saying Trump is making all this money for himself, but what about Nancy Pelosi's stock trading? And they will kind of have steam coming out of their ears as they explain the difference.

But there is a discourse in Democratic politics. Can we run -- what kind of reforms can we run on credibly with, with accusations of hypocrisy that that accentuate how much different what Trump is doing is that what we're doing? There are still there are federal investigations of politicians who accept very small gifts, tickets to -- I remember Andrew Gillum going down in Florida because of tickets of lobbyists got him for a Hamilton concert.

They're just -- they have an argument to make. But how can they be so pure that people believe them when they make it?

ZELENY: It almost seems quaint now, some of those things, anyway, right here. Well, coming up, as the country celebrates its 250th anniversary, a

new strand of socialism is gaining ground inside the Democratic Party. But how well will it play outside the big blue cities? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:16:10]

ZELENY: So, far left Democratic candidates are on a roll, winning primary races across the country and feeling bullish about their campaign promises, but now they're starting to win outside of big cities like New York and Los Angeles. However, the true test is just weeks away as progressive candidates try to win over moderates in battleground states like Michigan and Wisconsin.

Our great panel is back this morning.

Dave, you were in Michigan recently. We'll talk about that Senate race, which is going to have all of our attention in the next month, any minute. But when you look at the list of progressive far left candidates who are winning their primaries, it really is becoming quite significant there.

Look on the screen -- I mean, from New York to Maine, obviously Montana, New Jersey, Colorado, Maine, Ohio, Los Angeles, there's obviously an important governor's or a mayor's race there. What's your takeaway from this moment of the primary? Is this the sort of liberal version of the Tea Party movement from '09 and '10? Or what do you make of this moment?

WEIGEL: There's definitely one commonality of that, which is the Tea Party grew up after Republicans got slaughtered in 2008.

ZELENY: Right.

WEIGEL: And it was impossible for the leadership of the party to say, "Trust us, we know how to come back." And the big opening for progressive cancer in the country is this frustration by the Democratic primary base that their leadership lost to Donald Trump again. They thought it was impossible. They thought he was gone, that everything runs through that.

So they've had a series of campaigns and a lot -- a lot of non-left wing candidates have won primaries too, by talking about being fighters. Cait Conley in New York of -- buried in some of the headlines when she won last month.

But one of those candidates, there is a way of saying, "I'm a fighter. I'm going to take on Trump." It's not as credible to a lot of Democratic voters because they lost.

You saw this in Denver with Diana DeGette. Her campaign emphasized. She emphasized she was a Trump impeachment manager, did not matter at all. The Democratic voters said, yeah, but you -- you lost to him. Like what, usually when you don't get a conviction, that's called losing. And so, the base is angry in a way that's benefiting left wing

candidates.

ZELENY: And Dan Goldman in New York, who was a prosecutor.

BURNS: Right, right. And with those losses, I mean, there has been a vacuum in the Democratic Party, a vacuum of message, a vacuum of messengers, a vacuum of ideas. And in that vacuum, we are now seeing the left flank of the party fill that void and give voters what they've been yearning for, which is some ideological clarity, even if it's not necessarily aligned with everything that that Democratic primary voters believe.

I mean, there's a reason that AOC endorsed Abdul el-Sayed in Michigan. She said, we have differences, but this is somebody that has fight and that can win.

ZELENY: I mean, clearly a four months before the midterms, we will see if Democrats win control of the House. But, Tia, if they do, it is going to be an entirely different Democratic Caucus here.

What do you hear from your sources and members in the CBC, the CHC and others about just what type of a Democratic Caucus is waiting for, and what does it mean for Hakeem Jeffries?

MITCHELL: Yeah, I mean, of course, the CBC wanting to see the first Black House speaker in Hakeem Jeffries has a lot of interest. And of course, CBC has been backing more establishment, moderate candidates. I think there is concern that Hakeem Jeffries could have, you know, a wing of members that will be harder for him to control, harder for him to align, especially if those more progressive members take the attitude of what we see on the House side, which is "My way, or I shut it down."

Now, Nancy Pelosi was really good. Remember the Squad, and there was all that hand-wringing about how the squad was going to come in and wreck shop. And now, AOC seems mainstream by some standards when you think about it. That doesn't mean the Squad has lost their way policy wise, but they realize very quickly that they had to understand how to work the process and that Nancy Pelosi ruled with an iron fist. That's going to be the test for Hakeem Jeffries.

ZELENY: And Speaker Pelosi, obviously, is a singular figure, and things have changed. So we will see what lessons he can draw from them.

But, Dave, back to Michigan, I mean, it is one of the most important Senate races. I mean, Democrats need, obviously, to win that and hold that seat of retiring Senator Gary Peters. What is your take on the race right now? It's a three way primary.

You were in conversation with one of those candidates. What's the state of the race?

WEIGEL: The state of the race is that Abdul El-Sayed, who ran for governor against Gretchen Whitmer 2018, got a lot of attention, got the Bernie and AOC endorsements, and has been kind of waiting for something else to run for, for most of the decade that he is ahead in polls. He's ahead in super PAC polls, public polls. He has taken command of the attention in the race, which is also important here.

Another thing that the progressive candidates, left wing candidates are doing, they're getting the first mover advantage by being the first, not just to oppose Trump, but to oppose, for example, data center construction or say there should be some moratorium on tax on it.

There are other progressives. Will Lawrence in Michigan, in Slotkin's old district, who's doing better than Democrats in D.C., might want him to, because he came out very quickly and said, I'm not bought by anyone. I don't have any super PAC money or corporate PAC money, I should say. And I'm against these data centers.

Voters say, "Well, that's different. You're opposing people in a way that these Democrats talking about democracy and togetherness are not inspiring to me."

ZELENY: And as you talk, let's bring up just a look at the three candidates and who's endorsing them. It really is a test of where everyone in the party is. Mallory McMorrow obviously has the endorsement from Senator Elizabeth Warren, Peter Welch, Chris Murphy, if we have this Haley Stevens, obviously, she's a member of Congress. She has the endorsement of Chris Coons, et cetera.

When you sort of step back and look at this, is it a smart idea for Democrats to have a three-person primary at this point? Or, Tia, do you believe that there will be pressure on one of the three, perhaps Mallory McMorrow, to get out?

MITCHELL: I mean, I think for the people who are concerned that Democratic socialists are winning too much, what whether El-Sayed only have one moderate to be running against. That being said, I think a lot of the base is saying let it play out, because what we're seeing from a lot of Democratic voters is the message they're getting from Democratic socialists isn't as scary as I think some elected Democrats think it is.

ZELENY: So it almost seems the race is on to define what Democratic socialism is. We've seen President Trump define it as communism. Do you expect that to be kind of the fresh fight for a July here, just defining what the DSA is?

BURNS: I know, I think that's absolutely right and defining how successful it can be. I mean, showing whether this -- this is a flash in the pan or actually a lasting movement within the Democratic Party. I mean, people thought Trumpism was a flash in the pan. That is not what we saw play out. And in these primaries, I mean, you're seeing the same thing in the Republican Party, where there's hand-wringing in Washington over who is winning these Republican primaries.

But the base is thrilled. Now we'll see the tests, the sort of farther, right, more conservative, more Trumpy Republican candidates versus potentially in some of these races, the Democratic socialists, far left candidates and see -- see where that lands.

I mean, ultimately, winning is the key for Democrats. And so whether they're worried about Democratic socialism or not, if it's successful, I think we could see the tide turn.

ZELENY: And it will certainly be interesting to see in the coming weeks if Republican candidates begin repeating the communist message. I mean, are they -- the president seemed to be kind of leading the charge at Mount Rushmore on Friday, certainly last evening here to frame the party. We've not heard it from Republicans as much.

Final thought here. What's the primary, aside from Michigan, that you most have your eye on over the next couple of months heading into the summer?

WEIGEL: Wisconsin governor, which we brought up. But that's something even progressives in Wisconsin are surprised that Francesca Hong, whose state rep for Madison, the most left wing district in the in the state, again, by talking about data centers, grab people's attention very early on and has changed the race. It's also when Bernie Sanders endorses. Bernie, when Republicans are trying to define the party, this is the second time Democrats have lost a national election. Bernie Sanders rushed into the gap and said, I'm going to redefine the party where he where he endorses.

I watch those races because it has more clout, even because of those losses. We talked about more clout than it did even eight years ago when he started barnstorming around the country, getting these rallies. Other Democrats can endorse. They can't draw a crowd of 5,000 people every time they snap their fingers.

ZELENY: It almost feels like that race of 2016 and 2020 with Bernie Sanders is still going, because he certainly is still out there fighting that fight. Thank you guys very much.

Coming up, there is a new way that Americans can talk to a deceased former president.

[08:25:02]

That's A.I. I'll show you how as I travel to the badlands of North Dakota and the newly opened Teddy Roosevelt presidential library. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZELENY: It's Teddy Roosevelt like you've never seen him before. A brand new presidential library honoring America's 26th president officially opened on Saturday in North Dakota. You not only learn about his life and legacy, you can actually talk to him.

I traveled to beautiful North Dakota this week for a sneak peek.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY: The bison and the badlands both drew Teddy Roosevelt to North Dakota nearly a century and a half ago, and now a new presidential library paying tribute to his legacy rises in the distance, a $450 million project that somehow seems to blend in to the sweeping vistas until you step inside and begin to see the enormity of it all.

One of the first things you see is dirt. These walls are incredible and they are actual forms of dirt that look like the badlands.

And when the light comes in from the top, it is really striking how layer upon layer upon layer forms the entry to the country's newest presidential library.

You're taken back to his childhood in New York City, literally looking into the windows of where he grew up on 20th Street in Manhattan.

For the first time, Roosevelt's personal diary is on public display with an X marking the day his life would forever change.

February 14th, 1884. "The light has gone out of my life." Young Theodore Roosevelt wrote those words when his mother and his wife died on the very same day, in the very same house.

ED O'KEEFE, CEO, THEODORE ROOSEVELT PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY: He really, truly thought that his life, for the better part, was lived and over. He was 25 years old.

ZELENY: Ed O'Keefe is CEO of the library.

O'KEEFE: He recovered. He healed in nature. He later said, I never would have been president except for my experiences here in North Dakota. Nature, the outdoors literally saved his life.

ZELENY: From a replica cabin of his Elkhorn Ranch to his legendary service in the Spanish-American war. Roosevelt's life unfolds like a storybook and builds toward the presidency.

This room really brings to life Teddy Roosevelt's style on the campaign trail and his oratory as well, including this whistle-stop simulation train tour where you stand here and visitors really get a sense of what it was like to look out into the crowd and see so many people listening and hanging on every word.

O'KEEFE: Well, when we set out, we said we want to digitize the archive of an analog president. The advent of A.I. during our project gave us the opportunity to make Theodore Roosevelt the first president available in A.I. You can actually talk with TR.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on up.

ZELENY: Why was conservation so important to you as president?

He thinks for a moment and answers. If you ask a modern-day question, he punts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll leave today's politics to the living.

O'KEEFE: We are building this museum in the 2020s, not the 1920s. We are here to humanize, not lionize TR.

History is not pretty. There are rough spots. There are opinions and statements by even our most treasured leaders that we wish they had never said. But we don't hide them here.

ZELENY: And of course, one of the most famous speeches from Roosevelt is in the arena where he talks about people cannot be on the sidelines.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.

ZELENY: The library formally opened here Saturday on the edge of the Theodore Roosevelt National Park outside Medora, a tiny western town with a new landmark.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY: And I wasn't the only one who got an early look. President Trump also toured the library on Wednesday speaking to that A.I. Teddy Roosevelt, and he said he found some inspiration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's an honor to be with you today. and we are making a little bit of a tour. Some of the fantastic things you've done.

We're going to build our museum in Miami. They got me a lot of ideas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So clearly, President Trump thinking about his own library. We've seen him really think about his legacy as we've watched all the renovations across Washington.

Obviously the Trump library is going to be like something we have never seen before. We do have a rendering of what Eric Trump showed it will look like in Miami.

Dasha, what do you -- after covering Trump for so many years, what do you think he is thinking about his library and approaching it?

DASHA BURNS, WHITE HOUSE BUREAU CHIEF, POLITICO: Well, I would not be surprised if he did get some ideas from Teddy Roosevelt because interestingly, the two presidents, while not similar in substance, were actually pretty similar in style.

[08:34:50]

BURNS: I mean, the outsize nature of Teddy Roosevelt is something that that Trump is seeking to emulate the impact, leaving that kind of mark and really using the presidency as a bully pulpit, as an active way to change the country, which is really kind of the modern activist state came from Teddy Roosevelt. And President Trump wants to see himself in that same image. And certainly the physical symbolism, the pageantry, as we talked

about with the 250th anniversary, we are going to see that reflected in whatever this library ends up becoming.

ZELENY: It was clear all day Wednesday watching President Trump. He was trying to draw parallels with the Roosevelt. He, of course, has said, you have to respect the president.

That is not necessarily what President Roosevelt said as he was talking about President Wilson. This quote obviously stuck out to us that he had delivered on May 7th, 1918. He said this "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but it's morally treasonable to the American public."

Donald Trump -- President Trump requires much more order and discipline from his party.

DAVID WEIGEL, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, SEMAFOR: He does. I think that Teddy Roosevelt's probably won that argument with most people in terms of how Americans see their ability to criticize the president.

Even saw that yesterday. You saw in more liberal places people celebrating the Fourth of July and pretending Trump wasn't president or making fun of it in some -- in some way.

But when you're talking about Teddy Roosevelt, I'm thinking of when Barack Obama declared for reelection one of his set piece speeches. We went to Kansas. He was invoking Teddy Roosevelt.

I think there is more interest by Democrats in reclaiming some of their history. And when Trump is gone, he's not on the ballot anymore, reframing how they talk about the goals of the presidency.

You were saying it with Roosevelt, there was a little bit of guilt from Democrats when they were using executive powers, a little bit of apologizing for how aggressive they were if they couldn't get Congress to act.

I do wonder if, if a permanent change, or at least for the next president from Trump, is a little more brio and confidence in saying, I don't need Congress to act, I'm going to just do what I think is right, make the case that people are allowed to disagree with me.

ZELENY: And Tia, this caught our attention this week as the -- as President Trump had some commentary on some other former presidents when he sat down with Second Lady Usha Vance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: John Kennedy was a great guy. He was handsome. He was the second most good-looking president they say.

Barack Hussein Obama as a basketball player, I don't know if he's a good basketball player. I tend to doubt it. And then others like President William Taft, throw out the first pitch

of baseball. He was a large man, very large, and he loved baseball. He'd go to baseball games, loved the hot dogs at the baseball games.

He was our heaviest president. And I have to be careful because I don't want to supersede his record.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So some story time there with President Trump. Tia, how does President Trump see his place among those other leaders in history? He seems to be thinking about it a lot.

TIA MITCHELL, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION: Yes, but thinking about it in ways that I think would surprise people if you're -- if you haven't been studying Trump maybe as closely.

Because he's talking about their physical attributes, what they look like, the kind of how they present themselves to the world from a physical standpoint, as opposed to their policy and their impact on American democracy or the economy or foreign policy or the kinds of things of substance that we should be thinking about when we think about a president's legacy.

But it goes to Trumps core. For Trump, it's all about the pageantry. It's all about kind of made for TV. And for him, so it is about looks and strength, physical strength, not so much about, you know, the strength of leadership.

And I think that is going to weigh a lot on President Trump's legacy. It is going to define President Trump's legacy.

ZELENY: Central casting is always top of mind for this president. Guys, thank you very much.

So America celebrated like it was 1776 last night. But our next guest says every one of America's milestone birthdays has come at a time of upheaval in the country.

Presidential historian Tim Naftali will be here after the break.

[08:39:11]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZELENY: America loves a party and celebrating its big milestones, including the bicentennial in 1976, when the country was still grappling with fallout from the Vietnam War and Watergate. But during that year, the country came together to celebrate. For this year's semi-quincentennial, a different atmosphere.

To talk about the historic significance of this milestone, historian Tim Naftali is here with us.

Tim, good morning to you. How different has this celebration been from what we saw in 1976? TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: In 1976, President Ford did not make the celebration about himself. President Ford, in fact, the bicentennial commission, there was only one commission. There weren't -- there weren't rival commissions, Freedom Commission and the official commission as there was, unfortunately this time around.

[08:44:46]

NAFTALI: President Ford and the commission made it about us. It was about our communities. People might, you know, people of a certain age might recall how important their local community celebration of the bicentennial was.

And this time around, our bicentennial was wrapped up with a national debate about what role the president should play in our society and the extent to which a single individual defines America.

ZELENY: I mean, I do remember those celebrations, actually. I was three years old, and I remember marching in a small-town parade back in Nebraska, not really aware of the wider context of it all.

But you mentioned that President Ford did not put himself in the middle of this. Let's listen to a passage from a speech he delivered on July 4th back in Philadelphia in 1976.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GERALD FORD, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The American adventure is a continuing process. As one milestone is passed, another is cited. As we achieve one goal -- a longer lifespan, a literate population, a leadership in world -- we raise our sights. As we begin our third century, there is still so much to be done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So last night's speech struck a far different tone it seemed, Tim.

NAFTALI: Yes. First of all, Gerald Ford was a different -- a different man, had a different -- he was an institutionalist. He was -- he was not elected to the presidency, nor was he elected to the vice presidency. He comes to power because of the resignation of Richard Nixon and the corruption of Vice President Agnew.

So he was mindful of the fact that he -- the American people had not elected him. But he -- but he was also that kind of man. He was a great public servant and wasn't the type of person to make the birthday all about himself.

And so what he did was he connected with the great themes of our history. He talked about how we were guided by the star of freedom. That was him. That was Gerald Ford.

We were very fortunate to have someone like him in the Oval Office to move us through that period of healing in 1976.

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ZELENY: So this anniversary obviously comes at a time of deep partisan divisions, sweeping changes in technology, a fair degree of turmoil.

But you've looked at other big milestones for the country, not just 1976 but also 1926 and 1876. And those were also transformative moments.

NAFTALI: Well, I would go back to 1826. We had two -- a few of the founders were still alive, and they already saw -- this is Thomas Jefferson and John Adams -- that slavery was dividing the country already in in 1826.

1826 was just two years after a very contentious election won by John Quincy Adams against a man named Andrew Jackson. Andrew Jackson refused to believe that he had actually been defeated and spent four years making sure that he was president of the United States in 1828.

It was also a time when suffrage, the right to vote, was expanding. The country was changing in 1826.

The country was also changing in 1876, a very, very contentious election in 1876, and a national debate over reconstruction. The Civil War was only a decade -- it ended only a decade earlier. And there were -- there was a lot of unfinished business.

So our country's anniversaries happen not because of events, great events and tumultuous events. But the accident of these birthdays often coincides with moments of great contestation and debate.

We are a debating country. We disagree with each other. There's nothing unhealthy about that. But -- so when we look at this moment, we shouldn't think, oh my goodness, this is the most partisan, most difficult anniversary year in our history. It isn't.

ZELENY: Tim, such good perspective as we end our semi-quincentennial year and move ahead to 251. Thank you very much for joining us.

And still ahead, some final thoughts on America 250 and what we can all take away from it.

[08:49:16]

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ZELENY: As America turns the page to a new year, we'd like to leave you with one last look at Independence Day. A spectacular moment from Mount Rushmore, bathed in red, white and blue majesty.

And as Washington, Jefferson, Roosevelt and Lincoln looked on the sky came alive in a brilliant, patriotic tableau. A moment frozen in time as the nation moves into its next chapter.

As I stood and watched this remarkable scene unfold, set to music and even recorded passages from Presidents Kennedy and Clinton, Bush and Obama, Biden and Trump, I found myself wondering what's ahead for this great American experiment of ours.

What will the next 50 years bring? The next 100? That, of course, is up to us -- all of us.

[08:54:49]

ZELENY: I had the pleasure of traveling across the Dakotas all week long, learning more about Teddy Roosevelt from that magnificent new library that pays tribute to the nation's 26th president, one of the men etched into Mount Rushmore.

Perhaps his words still offer a guidepost for all of those who are inside politics. His famous In The Arena speech reminds us this there is no effort without error or shortcoming. And if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.

And that's all for INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY. You can follow me on X and Instagram @jeffzeleny and follow the show @INSIDE POLITICS.

Up next, "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JAKE TAPPER AND DANA BASH". Dana's guests include Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro and Interior Secretary Doug Burgum.

Thanks again for sharing your Sunday morning with us. Happy Independence Day.

We'll see you again next time.

[08:55:50]

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