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Smithsonian Leader Retires After Months Of Trump Pressure; Gov. Spencer Cox (R-UT), Is Interviewed About Republicans' Chances To Keep House, Senate; Sanders: There's "Division" In The Party, Progressives Are Winning. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired September 08, 2026 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And Lonnie Bunch has really tried extremely hard to keep this institution independent. And really, when you look at the larger picture, you know, President Trump has put forth this White House report examining all of the Smithsonian's exhibits. Much of the Smithsonian has really remained intact, despite the President's threats. And that, in part, due is to Lonnie Bunch and his ability to try to navigate all the political headwinds with preserving history and what he says is America's truth.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: All right, Rene, thank you so much for giving us this news.

And back here with the panel, the -- I mean, we've heard time and time again the President complain about the Smithsonian. In March of last year, 2025, he did it officially in an executive order, saying the Smithsonian in recent years come under the influence of a divisive, race-centered ideology. The shift has promoted narratives that portray American and Western values as inherently harmful and oppressive.

TIA MITCHELL, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE ATLANTA JOURNAL- CONSTITUTION: Yes, I think it's interesting, because, of course, the shift in the Smithsonian and other museums was to more properly contextualize American history and be more truthful and honest about some of the maybe uglier, more uncomfortable parts about American history. But we know when Trump returned to the White House, he wanted to roll back some of that and kind of put it under the umbrella of reversing diversity, equity and inclusion efforts across America in so many aspects.

And so, I hear what Rene said, that this could be just a scheduled retirement that isn't, you know, from a pressure campaign. But it still, I think, is going to lead a lot of people to be disappointed and concerned, because now you have to wonder who will be the next person to lead the Smithsonian Institution.

BASH: And, you know, I was talking to Rene in the break that Lonnie Bunch was appointed in 2019. So that was during Trump one.

TAMARA KEITH, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, NPR: Yes. BASH: Trump two sees things differently.

KEITH: Well, and also, President Trump also appointed the Fed chairman, who he wanted out.

BASH: That's right.

KEITH: So it's not like the president appointing someone in the first term means that he's going to continue to be happy with them forever. I do think that there is a real fight here happening where the Trump administration wants a different version of history, wants a, you know, like the airbrushed version of history, the one that maybe President Trump learned in school when he went to school all those many years ago. And it's different from the way history is taught and how history has been displayed in the Smithsonian Institution.

BASH: Yes. And all across the federal government. And I was with Governor Shapiro in Pennsylvania around 250. And there was a court battle to take down some images and explanations of the fact that George Washington had slaves and brought them to Pennsylvania. Fact. It's just it is a fact.

[12:32:59]

All right. We've all heard the call to just get along, to disagree without being disagreeable. But what if a Republican governor actually told you how to do it? Well, Utah Governor Spencer Cox will join me. He says he has a prescription. We'll hear it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: In a winner-takes-all political world, it can feel a bit utopian to ask, why can't we all just get along? But the Republican governor of Utah is imagining a world where that happens and wants you to as well. In his brand-new book, "Off Ramp: How to Be a Peacemaker in an Age of Contempt," Governor Spencer Cox asks Americans to put down their partisanship and pick up their conversation tools. Governor Cox joins me now.

Thank you so much for being here. I want to talk about the book in one moment, but it is, what, 56 days until the midterms. You are not on the ballot, but the environment for your fellow Republicans is not great. The President's approval rating is hovering around 35 percent. The average price of gasoline is $4.15 a gallon. Mortgage rates are surging. Why do you think voters should re-elect your fellow Republicans in Congress and beyond?

GOV. SPENCER COX (R-UT): Well, I think they should elect Republicans. And, by the way, it's great to see you again, Dana, because we bring actual solutions to the table, and we still have a lot of work to do, I understand that. I will say that a couple months ago, Democrats that I talked to were pretty excited about the midterms, feeling really great about their opportunity to have a big swing, something that used to be pretty normal in kind of midterms where the other party, the party out of power, would gain, you know, lots of seats and felt like this was going to be a layup. And then the DSA came along, and suddenly they're panicking a little bit, the socialist kind of wing of the party, which is helping Republicans. And, look, I admit that, you know, gas prices being high, isn't great. It's something we all wish were different. We're hoping that we can put an end to the Iranian war as soon as possible. Those are all things we want to happen. But it's -- Democrats aren't that popular either.

When you talk to voters, when you look at the polling, the Democratic brand isn't real strong right now, and there's certainly some candidates out there that are helping Republicans. So well -- it's going to be very interesting to see how that turns out.

BASH: Just real quick, when you say Republicans get things done, do you think that your constituents in Utah think Republicans who run Washington are getting things done?

[12:40:01]

COX: Well, I will say that I don't think most Americans think Congress has gotten anything done for a decade-plus, no matter who's in charge. I make, in the book, I make the passionate case that Congress was supposed to be the most powerful branch of government. That was intended on purpose. There's real reasons for that, and that hasn't been the case for a long, long time. And we need Congress to actually get stuff done again. No matter who's in charge, I wish we could actually work to accomplish some things.

BASH: OK, so let's talk about your book. And you write about the need for Americans to choose to reengage with each other. Unfortunately, Governor, this weekend, an armed man allegedly pushed through a crowd toward Ohio Democratic gubernatorial nominee Amy Acton. Multiple people were injured. This happened at a fair, the type of community event that you believe Americans need more of. First, what was your reaction to hearing about that? And especially as you are talking about this book, where you're saying, please, engage with one another in person, and a state fair is exactly the kind of place to do it.

COX: Well, I was horrified to hear that report. I'm grateful to see the candidates both responding. Vivek Ramaswamy, her opponent, I think responded appropriately as well. And that is to condemn this type of violence, this type of attempted violence. It's why I wrote the book. It's, of course, we had, you know, the highest-profile political assassination in 50 years in Utah, almost a year ago when Charlie Kirk was assassinated, which was one of the things that compelled me to finish the work I had started several years before.

And I'm really concerned about our country because we are resorting to political violence. Threats against members of Congress have increased tenfold over the past decade. Not 10 percent, 10 times the number of threats. That's what we're dealing with in politics right now. And, look, we're celebrating 250 years of this incredible nation. We can't keep going this direction. We have to try something different. And I truly believe that means that we don't have to compromise on our values. We don't have to compromise on the issues. But we do have to disagree respectfully and try to find ways to work together to solve the biggest problems facing Americans.

BASH: You mentioned the horrible murder of Charlie Kirk, which happened in your state, and the anniversary is in just two days. At that press conference, the first one you had after his murder, you asked Americans to, "Look in the mirror and to see if you can find a better angel in there somewhere." Has that happened?

COX: Well, I do think it is happening. Look, the polling is pretty powerful right now. Seventy percent of Americans hate what's happening in our country with politics right now. They're desperate for something different, for something better. And I truly believe that the answer to these issues aren't just going to come from me or, you know, from a President, from Congress, but from all of us expecting more of each other and of ourselves.

Look, I mean, the -- all of the incentives are aligned against this type of effort towards peacemaking. The algorithms on social media reward the extreme voices, reward the, you know, loudest people in the room. But that's not where most Americans are. And so I am hopeful that more and more people -- I can't tell you the feedback I've gotten over the past year, the number of people who've said, you're right, I'm logging off of social media, I'm going to stop posting, you know, the hate that I've been posting. Like, we can do better.

BASH: I'm glad to hear that. I do want to ask about something else you write about in the book and the opportunity you had to ride with then- President Biden in his motorcade with him in 2023. And during that car ride, you said this to the President, "Mr. President, I know this might sound crazy, but I think you should pardon Donald Trump." And then you write, the president said to you, "You know, I've actually considered this for a while. In fact, just this week as we were lying in bed, Jill and I had a long conversation about it. I just think that too many people in our country are demanding justice. I just don't think I can do it, but I will consider it."

Now, Governor, you know that you know President Trump ran his first presidential campaign saying lock up his political opponent. He obviously went on to pardon supporters of his who beat police officers on January 6th saying that they wanted to hang his then-Vice President. Why did you want Joe Biden to pardon him?

COX: Well, my hope was that that could be a real example to the nation. Again, it was an incredibly divisive time. Certainly understanding what was at stake in that forthcoming election. And I think it could have been a really pivotal turning point in our nation's history having someone do something like that in a very magnanimous way. He ultimately decided not to do that. And, you know, history will decide, I guess, if he was right or if I was right. But I like to think that maybe things would be a little different today if he had actually made that decision.

[12:45:21]

BASH: Governor Cox, thank you so much. I appreciate it. The book is "Off Ramp" and it is out today. Thanks for being here.

COX: Thanks Dana.

BASH: Coming up, Bernie Sanders, kingmaker. His hand-picked candidates have dominated the Democratic primaries, but can all those primary wins translate into general election victories? We'll talk about his impact today on his birthday after a break.

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[12:50:09]

BASH: Senator Bernie Sanders is celebrating his 85th birthday today. And he's probably also celebrating his movement massive inroads in the Democratic Party. He's the most popular Democratic leader in America and he's not even technically a Democrat. In an interview with "Politico," Sanders explained why he thinks his wing of the party is winning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): It is no great secret. Look, that there is a division within the Democratic Party between those of us who are fighting for progressive ideas that take on the oligarchy that stand with the working class and another part of the party that looks at the world a little bit differently.

People want change and they do not want status quo politics or status quo policies. We've got to talk about the real solutions to the very serious problems we have. Progressives by and large are doing that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: "Politico" says Sanders has spoken at 63 rallies this year to more than 300,000 people. OK. I'm definitely somebody who's been covering Washington longer than every one of you here. And I can remember when Bernie Sanders was a lone wolf and he was such an outsider. Forget about, you know, he's obviously an independent, forget about each party, but just in the ideas that he was pushing. And he has gone from that to leading a movement that is very much disrupting the Democratic Party.

PATRICK SVITEK, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Yes. And he was very out front. I think in leading the resistance to Trump's second term in particular, we forget about it now, but in those early months of Trump's second term, the Democratic Party was a little divided after Trump's somewhat upset, resounding victory in the 2024 election about how much to embrace his ideas, how much to work with Republicans.

But early on in 2025, you saw Bernie Sanders go out and hold these fighting oligarchy rallies at a time when there weren't a lot of Democratic leaders stepping forward, at least to rally people on a large scale like that. And so, I mean, he has had a long and storied career, but I do think in the past two years, he's really, he was pretty perceptive in seeing just how much of a grassroots revolt there would be against this Trump second term and going out and kind of tapping into that before other democratic leaders did.

BASH: Yes, absolutely. But the grassroots revolt is, and he made this very clear in a more diplomatic way when Joe Biden was president was against the Democratic Party too, and is still against the Democratic Party in a big way. Obviously he became very well known to people in 2016 when he ran for the Democratic presidential nomination, the first time against Hillary Clinton. Let's listen to his 2016 message and it will sound familiar to you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: This country is not going to move forward in a significant way for working people, unless we overturn this disastrous citizens united Supreme Court decision, unless we have real campaign reform so that billionaires and Super PACs cannot buy elections. And a rigged economy where the rich get richer and everybody else get poorer and create an economy that works for all of us, not just the 1 percent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Exact same lines that he uses now a decade later. And by the way, he used a decade plus before that.

KEITH: Yes, he has been incredibly consistent. I interviewed him in Burlington, Vermont in 2015. And he said many of these same things. He also didn't really want to talk about himself. He wanted to talk about the millionaires and the billionaires. I covered him in Iowa in the early days when he was just in a distant speck in the rear view mirror of Hillary Clinton. He obviously caught up.

And he would work so hard on his speech that he was going to give and write it in longhand on a yellow notepad. And essentially it was the same speech every time. His message has been extremely consistent. And in some ways like the DSA in part inspired by him and part of inspired by a lot of other things has caught up, like politics has caught up with where Bernie has been.

BASH: And not all politics, which was, which was no, but I mean, it is absolutely true that a lot of people, he just kind of stayed the same and people found him or maybe were inspired by him. Matt Bennett with The Third Way, who, which is a moderate Democratic group, said in this "Politico" article, what Bernie's people do very, very effectively is turn blue places bluer. They have won nothing, nothing in places where we're trying to turn red to blue. These DSA candidates are being used against Democrats and swings districts. It was inevitable that this would happen.

[12:55:03]

MITCHELL: So that's what I was thinking when we were talking about Bernie. You know, there's a lot of concern among establishment mainstream Democrats that these progressive candidates can't win. Just like, you know, Bernie Sanders ultimately fell short in the Democratic primary. They think that there's a ceiling on the level of support they can get even among left leaning voters. Now, 2026, this year is going to be a big test of that. And I think we'll have a lot more data after the November elections about how much voters are willing to stomach in this current climate. That's the other thing, you know, Bernie Sanders, the political context of his 2016 presidential run is very different than the political context a decade later.

BASH: That's right. Thank you all. Appreciate it. Thank you for joining Inside Politics. CNN News Central starts after a quick break.

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