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Isa Soares Tonight
A New Report Suggests Russian Camps "Re-educate" Ukrainian Children; Nikki Haley Launches White House Bid; U.S. Intel Assessing if Spy Balloon's Path was Accidental; U.S. Intel Assessing Balloon's Path; U.S. Secret Service Study Analyzes Mass Shooters; Tensions High Along Ukraine's Border With Belarus; Pharrell Williams Joins Louis Vuitton As Men's Creative Director. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired February 15, 2023 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, a disturbing new report into a Russian
war tactic, abducting Ukrainian children into camps that demand total loyalty to the Kremlin. We follow one mother's journey into Russian
territory to bring back her daughter.
Then, former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley launches a presidential bid, and already it's taking swipes at the incumbent. And yet, another twist in the
balloon story. U.S. Intelligence officials are now assessing the possibility that the Chinese spy balloons path over the U.S. was
accidental. Well, much more on those stories in just a moment.
But first, NATO Secretary-General says Russian President Vladimir Putin must realize he cannot win this war in Ukraine. Jens Stoltenberg says NATO
pledges of tanks and military training have given Ukraine, quote, "a critical window of opportunity to tip the balance in its favor". We'll have
much more on the NATO meeting in Brussels just a moment.
I'll be speaking with Poland's deputy defense minister about the military aid that's been agreed, including of course, the pledges of all important
ammunition. But first, we are getting disturbing new insight into one of Russia's most insidious war tactics. According to a new report, Moscow is
running an expansive system of camps in order to, quote, "re-educate and Russify thousands of Ukrainian children".
David McKenzie is on the story, he joins me now live from Kyiv. So, David, just bring us up to date. What are we learning about this disturbing
study and then the Kremlin's thinking and purpose behind these camps here.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, the study is saying -- that's a Yale University study that was -- I must say
backed by the U.S. State Department that there are more than 40 camps like this in Russian-occupied areas of Ukraine. And in the Russian federation
itself, and what they say is happening is in fact very disturbing.
That thousands of children have been taken to those camps. Now, they may not be the kind of camps you think of when you think of a camp for children
during a time of war. But there is a very invidious propaganda attempt ongoing by the Russians, say this report, and also based on our own
We joined a group of mothers who are desperately trying to get their children back.
MCKENZIE (voice-over): Weeks ago, we first met Tetyana Vlaiko in Kyiv in a shelter for displaced families. All of the mothers here separated from
their children by the trauma of war.
TETYANA VLAIKO, UKRAINIAN MOTHER (through translator): Emotions overwhelmed me when Lilia(ph) left. When I realized what was happening, it
terrified me. All I wanted were the best for my child at the time. Her 11- old daughter Lilia(ph) stuck in a Russian camp in occupied Crimea. All the lessons are in Russian.
At first glance, their retreat seemed like any other Summer camp. But the loyalty expected from Ukrainian children is crystal clear. Part of what a
new Yale University study calls systematic re-education efforts. But Tetyana and Lilia's(ph) story begins a year ago. Their hometown of Kherson
fell quickly to advancing Russian troops. Within days, the occupiers began a campaign to Russify the population.
Often coercing thousands of parents like Tetyana to send their kids to the camps. But when Ukrainian forces took back Kherson in November, Tetyana's
daughter was on the wrong side of the frontline.
MYKOLA KULEBA, SAVE UKRAINE: We provide rescue mission for children who were abducted and now in Russian federation and in Crimea.
MCKENZIE: Mykola Kuleba; the founder of Save Ukraine declined to say exactly how they negotiate their entry into enemy territory, just that the
mothers can't do it on their own.
KULEBA: It's impossible to communicate with any Russians because -- and you can ask these mothers, they don't want to give children back.
MCKENZIE: But Tetyana was ready to take the risk.
VLAIKO: I'm worried, of course. You cannot even imagine my emotions inside. It's fear and terror. It's emotional that I could see her soon,
and this is a big deal for me.
MCKENZIE: Eleven mothers and one father, putting on a brave face, but there is a perilous route.
From Ukraine by road to Poland and to Russian-allied Belarus through the Russian federation to occupied Crimea.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We were counting every kilometer on approach. I could feel it with every cell in my body. I was very
emotional when we were closer and closer.
MCKENZIE: Save Ukraine spent many months planning this moment. Reuniting families shattered by war. Returning children who just wanted to go home to
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Once I entered, to me, it was an outburst of emotions. Once we embraced, it was like a great weight lifted.
MCKENZIE: In the end, they gave up the children willingly. But Save Ukraine says that hundreds, perhaps thousands remain. Our two countries are
at war, says Tetyana, but there are good people everywhere.
MCKENZIE: There are untold mothers in this country still trying to get access to their children. Now, the Russian Embassy in Washington said this
is quote, "absurd". They say they are just trying to protect these Ukrainian children, often, they say they are in family groupings and they
are just trying to keep them safe, say the Russians.
But there is certainly a political aspect to this, and many hundreds, if not thousands of families are separated because of it. It's worse though.
There appears to be growing evidence that at least some children are put up for adoption to Russian families. Again, Russia vehemently denies that this
is happening in a way that separates them from their actual parents. Isa?
SOARES: Incredibly worrying, disturbing, but great report from you and the team. Thanks very much, David, appreciate it. Well, NATO defense ministers
are reaffirming their commitment to Ukraine, and to defending its own member countries from Russian aggression. Secretary-General Jens
Stoltenberg says that allied countries have signed contracts to ramp up production of critical ammunition to send to Ukraine and to protect NATO
countries themselves from the greatest security crisis in a generation.
Poland's deputy Foreign Minister Pawel Jablonski joins me now from Warsaw. Minister, thank you very much for taking the time --
PAWEL JABLONSKI, DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER, POLAND: All right, good evening --
SOARES: To speak to us. We're hearing so once again from the NATO chief that time is of the essence. That this is a grinding war of attrition and a
race of logistics. How do allies -- how does Poland and its allies, how do they get ahead of this? What needs to happen right now?
JABLONSKI: Well, the answer to it is consistency. Consequence is remain persistent as we are, because if we consider why are we doing this? Why are
we helping Ukraine? There are obviously many answers. So we are doing it because this is a moral right thing to do, obviously. We are doing it out
But we are also doing this for our own safety, our own security in Europe. We know very well that if we would allow Russia to win this war, there are
next targets, there are next countries that Putin would like to annex, subjugate us, he'd call it denazify, accusing everybody of Nazism. He is
the Nazi today and we must stop him.
SOARES: But Minister, let me ask you this. We heard the NATO chief say today was that, Ukrainian troops are expanding ammunition at many times
higher than the current rate of production for NATO members. So is it possible in your view that NATO countries can ramp up production so quickly
JABLONSKI: It is absolutely doable. It's feasible. Obviously, it is a cost -- it is a cost that we are burying for almost a year. But it's a cost that
we need to bear if we want to avoid much larger costs. A cost of instability. A cost of war all across Europe because Putin will not stop
himself if we won't do it. We have the resources. We are much stronger.
We only need the political will to use these resources. Poland is doing this along with other allies. We are encouraging all the countries to ramp
up to use all their possibilities in our hands. There's no other way. Otherwise, Putin will continue attacks. He will continue to inflict terror.
He will continue to inflict war crimes just as we heard several minutes ago.
It's atrocities against families. These actions are of purely genocidal nature. It's -- these are attempts at erasing Ukrainian identity.
Liquidating this. Destroying it as a separate nation. We cannot allow this. This cannot stand. He must be held accountable and he must be defeated.
SOARES: And you're talking obviously about ramping up production. I know and I believe Poland also has stepped up in terms of defense spending, I
read 4 percent of GDP, but maybe you can correct me. So just talk us through how Poland is stepping up its production to try and meet these
needs that Ukraine clearly needs right now.
JABLONSKI: We are doing everything that we can. The number you have given is correct. We also are stepping up in our own capacities. Just today, it
was announced that we are amplifying our production capacity when it comes to howitzers. We'll be increasing that. And this is not just for the needs
of Ukraine, it is also for our needs because we --
SOARES: Yes --
JABLONSKI: Obviously need to be assured. We also need to have our army -- our army well equipped. Everybody in NATO should do the same. Everybody
should focus on these spending. This is -- this has been for many years neglected, unfortunately in many European countries. Just Poland wasn't one
of them. We were calling in our allies to increase defense spending which we knew that this dark day of Russian aggression might come.
Now is the time to amend these old errors all across Europe because this was inadequate. And now, we need to -- we need to make up for what wasn't
done for many years before us.
SOARES: Minister, let's talk jets. President Biden, you would have seen the comments basically ruling out sending F-16s to Ukraine. Rishi Sunak
here in the U.K. just last week -- I think it was last week, has agreed to train Ukrainians on jets. And -- but he also said that nothing was off the
table. Where does Poland stand on this? Is there a willingness to send jets to Ukraine?
JABLONSKI: We certainly believe that nothing should be off the table. We are in a situation where Ukraine is under attack. Ukraine is defending
itself and nothing should be considered -- nothing should be considered illegitimate. Because it is Ukraine that was attacked, it has every right
to defend itself with all resources it has or it can receive.
So, we are encouraging our allies to step up, not just with quantity, but also with various other types of weapons. We hope that these diplomatic
efforts will lead to success, and this is what all I can tell at this point.
SOARES: Can I ask whether Ukraine has asked Poland for jets? Because I know they're still --
JABLONSKI: We are talking --
SOARES: Reservation rules --
JABLONSKI: Constantly -- we are talking constantly about all options Ukraine has been very vocal about its needs. It's been very vocal about its
needs to Poland, to other countries, and we are talking to our allies to look for options. Next week, we have a very important visit with President
Biden to Poland, and I think this will also be discussed during this visit.
SOARES: Let me go back to the supply chain and the logistical concerns of trying to get the weaponry, the ammunition on the ground to Ukraine. Given
these kind of logistical concerns that we were just discussing, Minister. Do you suspect that Russia will start the offensive sooner, do you suspect
that Russia will see this as a way to get in before that equipment, of course, that critical equipment gets on the ground?
JABLONSKI: No, they certainly are willing to do it. They are certainly planning to attack as soon and as forceful as possible, there is no
question about it because it's not our action to support Ukraine that provokes Russia. The only thing that Russia has provoked by is weakness, it
inability to defend itself. So if we are not acting timely, then this is actually a provocation for Russia to attack.
So we need to increase it. There are the technologies. We understand it, we know very well when Poland is the logistic hub, I would say, through our
territory, most of these shipments are flowing. Understanding these challenges should lead us to finding solutions, and not to declaring that
this or that can be done. It can be done if we find political will to do it.
SOARES: And very briefly, Minister, what is your assessment and Poland's assessment of Russia's resources and manpower? Do they have significant --
can they make significant gains in the east of the country with what they've got?
JABLONSKI: They have obviously very vast resources especially in terms of potentially recruiting another hundreds of thousands of civilians. They
have a lot of weapons, mostly of all the types, but obviously the sheer number can be significant. But at the same time, if we will provide Ukraine
with efficient -- and obviously, we'll do it quickly, weaponry, Ukraine can use it for good and you can put it to good success.
The proof of that last September and August, successful counteroffensive in Kharkiv region, then in --
SOARES: Yes --
JABLONSKI: Around Kherson. This was done with the weaponry that they received from us. If we will continue, there will be more successes on
SOARES: Deputy Foreign Minister, really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us. Thank you sir.
JABLONSKI: Thank you very much.
SOARES: Now, former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley formerly kicked off her presidential campaign just hours ago, and she did it in the state's
largest city, Charleston. Haley served as Washington's ambassador to the U.N. during the Trump administration. Now, she's challenging her former
boss for the Republican Party's nomination.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIKKI HALEY, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: We're ready. Ready to move past the stale ideas and faded names of the past. And we are more than
ready for a new generation to lead us into the future.
When America is distracted, the world is less safe. And today, our enemies think that the American era has passed. They're wrong. America is not past
our prime, it's just that our politicians are past theirs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Let's get more on this. Kylie Atwood is there in Charleston, South Carolina. Kylie, good to see you. So this was really her moment, wasn't it?
To introduce herself to the American people. From what you heard, from what we heard, how did you -- how did you think she wants to be perceived? What
was her message?
KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, she clearly wants to be perceived as a strong female. Talking a lot about what she's been
through, her leadership, experiences as U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, standing up against authoritarians around the world, but also, her
experience as the former two-time governor of this state, South Carolina.
Which is her home state. And so she talked about who she is, her leadership experience, the fact that she grew up in the state to Indian immigrants,
calling herself proud to be the daughter of those two Indian immigrants. And talking about the fact that, you know, she was the only Indian family
in the small town of Bamberg, South Carolina where she grew up.
And there were challenges that came with that, but her parents reminded her every day of just how blessed she was to have the opportunities to live in
the United States. She was also critical of the Republican Party in the past, saying that they have lost a popular vote, seven out of the eight
last presidential races.
And she said the reason for that is because they haven't been able to attract the majority of voters. She is positioning herself as someone who
is the candidate who can attract the majority of Republican voters. And she made her pitch very clearly. There was a lot in there for everyone. She
said America should be strong and not woke and weak.
She also talked about securing America's borders. The need for increased policing. The need for politicians to not be able -- unable to close
schools. Of course, we saw Republican frustrations when that happened during COVID. So she really had something in there for everyone. And it's
important to note that she did mention former President Trump, but really, only in passing to say that she was selected as his ambassador to the
She didn't go after him in this speech, but of course, it's going to get hot, it's going to get contested between those two. They're currently the
only two Republicans in the race, but of course, that will change very quickly over the course of the next few months.
SOARES: Yes, I think we are expecting a rather crowded GOP field. Thank you very much, Kylie Atwood there, appreciate it, thank you. Now, we have
big political news here in the U.K. Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon says that it is time, and that she's stepping down. A fierce advocate of
Scottish independence, she said the decision wasn't driven by her recent political difficulties. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICOLA STURGEON, FIRST MINISTER, SCOTLAND: From a deeper and longer term assessment, I know it might seem sudden, but I have been wrestling with it,
albeit with oscillating levels of intensity for some weeks. Essentially, I've been trying to answer two questions. Is carrying on right for me?
And more importantly, is me carrying on right for the country, for my party and for the independence cause I have devoted my life to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Bianca Nobilo is with me now. Bianca, great to have you on the show. So she said that she's not stepping down because of political short-
term pressures. So why is she stepping down? Because it took many people by surprise, I think it's fair to say.
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: It did. The suddenness of this announcement did take people by surprise. Journalists were caught off
guard, scrambling to be there in time for the announcement this morning at 11:00 a.m. She said her reasons were personal and political. Politically
because she believes that she's now become such a polarizing and divisive figure in herself.
Someone whose character(ph), she says, the reasonable political debate and progress can't be made on issues that matter to her. She also feels now is
the right time to step aside so that the next person can come in and decide what the best way to approach Scottish independence is. But personally, she
said she wanted to focus on Nicola Sturgeon, the person, time with friends and family and the politics have become more brutal in recent years. And
that it was time for her to step aside.
SOARES: Echoes really what we heard -- with New Zealand prime minister --
NOBILO: Yes --
SOARES: But you know, in terms of the Scottish independence push, I mean, this is something that you care deeply about.
NOBILO: Yes --
SOARES: Where does that leave that push? Is there still appetite for independence?
NOBILO: Right now is sort of a cross section. A few things could happen because Nicola Sturgeon's departure could be read as possibly deflating the
cause for independence because she's just been such an ardent champion of it.
You know, along with William Wallace in "Brave Heart", probably the popular machinations. She's up there with those --
SOARES: Yes --
NOBILO: Who champion Scottish independence. But recently because she had intertwined her party, the Scottish National Party, with the cause of
independence so deeply, that also meant that if her party became unpopular because of how it dealt with crime or issues in the health service. To some
extent, it can be reflected in people's support for Scottish independence.
So, for a long time, people have suggested maybe this needs to be taken outside of party politics, and needs to be across party, unified approach
to Scottish independence, and not one that is just owned by the Scottish National Party. So, it'd be interesting to see if there's a push for that
now. And also what her successor decides to do.
Because polls have not been as favorable for the Scottish National Party and independents lately. And they've reached these obstacles with the U.K.
Supreme Court saying that they will need the government in Westminster's permission to hold another referendum, and the government have been very
clear that they feel like that's a once in a generation question and it's already been done in 2014.
SOARES: We shall see who her successor will be. And of course, whether that's still going to be something they'll push for. B., really appreciate
it, thanks so much. And still to come tonight --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: We're now walking with the chief of staff at the hospital to the helipad, he tells me that they've had
some 5,000 patients that have come here over the last seven days. The orthopedic surgeons, the neurosurgeons have been operating for seven days
straight basically. This is the largest trauma hospital in the quake zone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta reports on the urgent effort to treat wounded earthquake survivors in Turkey. That story is next. You are
SOARES: Well, take a look at that image. The earthquake that has caused so much death and destruction across Turkey and Syria was strong enough to
clearly mark the countryside. You see the fault line in this satellite image, starting in the green fields and going straight through that
Well, a full nine days after that quake erased entire towns off the map, a few miraculous rescues are still giving families really a glimmer of hope
about missing loved ones. A woman and her two children were among the survivors pulled out today in Turkey.
The first thing the mother wanted to know is what day is it? Then she asked for water. And these rare moments are keeping rescuers going really in the
face of just overwhelming tragedy. More than 41,000 people are confirmed dead in Turkey and Syria. Well, many survivors need medical care after
suffering injuries in the crush of concrete metal as well as broken glass.
CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta is in Turkey and visited the largest trauma hospital in the quake zone.
GUPTA (on camera): I made my way to an airstrip here, a Turkish military airstrip where so many of the donations from all over the world, this is
where they arrive, and then helicopters and planes and other vehicles come and take these supplies and try and get them to places where people really
need them. You know, we talk about more than 41,000 people have tragically died.
But there are also -- who are survivors who have been injured and are in need of some of these supplies. In fact, we went to the largest trauma
center in this area. A trauma center that was not damaged by the quake. And they've been taking care of patients, thousands of patients, 5,000 over the
last several days.
I want to give you a look at what it takes to run a trauma center in the middle of an earthquake zone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Operating room.
GUPTA (voice-over): Time is the great equalizer in hospitals all across Turkey, and there isn't enough of it here in Adana city, at the teaching
and research hospital.
SULEYMAN CETINKUNAR, CHIEF OF STAFF, ADANA CITY TEACHING & RESEARCH HOSPITAL: The patients come in with fractures --
GUPTA (on camera): With what sort of injuries?
CETINKUNAR: Patients are -- consists of limp loss, tissue crushes, tissue lost and brain trauma. Helicopter --
GUPTA (voice-over): Dr. Suleyman Cetinkunar is chief of staff here. Within minutes, his trauma team is paged again. Another helicopter is arriving.
(on camera): We're now walking with the chief of staff at the hospital to the helipad. He tells me that they've had some 5,000 patients that have
come here over the last seven days. The orthopedic surgeons, the neurosurgeons have been operating for a seven-day straight basically. This
is the largest trauma hospital in the quake zone.
(voice-over): The doctor's move fast. The goal, to care for this 26-year- old woman. Her kidneys are failing from something known as crushed syndrome. Too many toxins were released into her blood after her limb was
finally freed. She will need emergent kidney dialysis. Over and over again, patients from the quake zone finally, thankfully making it here for help.
And one with the most remarkable story I have heard. This beautiful family of five felt the earth shake, and then watched the unthinkable happen.
NILAY FANSA, MOTHER OF MISSING BABY (through translator): A block of flats is seven stories high.
GUPTA: They could do nothing but watch as eight-month old baby Berjar(ph) was somehow hurdled from the window five stories to the ground, and then
look what happened to their building, just flattened. Somehow, Nilay survived after being trapped herself for almost 14 hours.
And she began to dig and scrape through the rubble for any sign, any sign at all that her baby girl was still alive.
FANSA: And at that point, the fifth day, we thought we would be seeing her lifeless body.
GUPTA: But then, something astonishing happened, someone showed them this post on Twitter, at first, they weren't sure, but this baby girl looked
very much like her daughter.
FANSA: You see, we had no idea she had been saved.
GUPTA: In the chaos, a good Samaritan had rescued the girl and she was flown here, broken and battered, left leg shattered, skull fractured, a
small collection of blood on her brain, but yes, very much alive.
(on camera): Just such a miraculous story. You think about that eight- month old girl, I mean, she was thrown out the window, but had she not been thrown out the window, she would have likely been crushed. You saw just how
that building was so pancaked. People don't like to use the word miracle very often, but that was pretty miraculous.
I think you'd have to agree. This is an area, Turkish airstrip where so many of the donations that are coming in from all over the world, this is
where they arrive. Then there is planes and helicopters and other vehicles that take these supplies and get them to the people who need them the most.
And keep in mind, there are a lot of people that are still out there.
They've survived, but they may be injured and they're in tremendous need. And that's what these supplies are going to help serve.
SOARES: That's Dr. Sanjay Gupta there in Adana, Turkey, with that incredible story.
And still to come tonight. What we're learning about the gunman in Monday's mass shooting at Michigan State University. We'll also hear from a student
there who's now survived two such attacks.
And U.S. intelligence officials are assessing the possibility that the suspected Chinese spy balloon's path was accidental after all. So a lot of
questions. We head to Washington, D.C., to try to answer some. That's next.
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone.
This just in to CNN. Sources tell us the U.S. intelligence officials are now assessing the possibility that a suspected Chinese spy balloon that
flew over the U.S., if you remember, was not deliberately maneuvered there by China.
Sources tell CNN that strong winds may have inadvertently blown the balloon over U.S. territory. That China then took advantage of its position. Let's
get more on all this. U.S. correspondent Natasha Bertrand is in Washington for us.
Natasha, officials saying balloon diverted by strong winds but did they know where it was originally heading before it was blown over by wind?
NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Isa, it's a great question. Essentially, what we are told is that, when this took off from
China, the U.S. was monitoring it at that very moment.
Based on the flight path of the balloon kind of settled into, it was predicted that it would go over Guam, it would take a pretty
straightforward eastward path.
Instead, what happened was it unexpectedly pivoted north toward Alaska then went over Canada and then pivoted again south down to the continental U.S.
Now officials are examining the possibility that kind of all of those unexpected movements were pretty much just a result of weather patterns and
strong winds. This is important because it could go a pretty long way in easing tensions between the U.S. and China over the sensitive.
BERTRAND: Because China has said from the beginning that this was not an intentional violation of American airspace. The U.S. insisting that it
doesn't really matter, because the ultimate reality is that this was a spy balloon. And it's important to note that once it was over Montana, it did
loiter over sensitive military sites there.
The U.S. does believe it had some capability to maneuver. If it wanted to, it could've exited U.S. airspace a little bit quicker than it did. So it's
kind of a combination of both situations here.
The reality now that we're hearing is that this is a very real possibility. CNN actually did model the weather patterns of kind of in the Pacific at
the time the balloon took off.
It is a very plausible possibility that the wind currents and the weather patterns of the time just kind of made the balloon drift off course and go
northward in enter U.S. airspace, Isa.
SOARES: Does it change anything?
Like you said, it was intentionally to going toward Guam, where there are military sites. The intention was still being used for surveillance.
Does this change at all?
Does this possibly ease tensions with Beijing?
Like you said, Secretary Blinken had postponed a trip because of this.
BERTRAND: We'll have to see. Secretary Blinken going to the Munich security conference. He may be meeting with his Chinese counterpart there.
So if they do that could signal some easing of tensions.
The U.S. has been very clear that the main issue with this was the fact that it is part of a large surveillance program and part of a large fleet
of balloons that has been doing this across dozens and dozens of countries for the last several years.
The issue remains that it was gathering intelligence over sensitive sites; whether it was in Guam or the continental U.S., of course, it could go some
way in kind of redeeming the Chinese explanation that this was just blown off course.
SOARES: Natasha Bertrand appreciate. It thank you very much.
As Michigan State University mourns the loss of three of its students in Monday's mass shooting, the impact of students caught up in the attack is
becoming more clear.
As we are learning, it's been particularly traumatizing for some students, who have now survived a second school shooting after living through a
deadly attack at Oxford High School in 2021.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AVA FERGUSON, MULTIPLE MASS SHOOTING SURVIVOR: After Oxford, they said that this wasn't going to happen again, that we were going to be safe going
back to school. And that's just not the case. The other night, I was in shock. I did not think it was real, honestly.
There should have been laws made years ago when Sandy Hook happened. And it never did. And I feel like now is the time, people need to start realizing
there is people dying every day because of gun violence. And something needs to be done about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: We are also learning more about the gunman who police say carried out the attack at Michigan State. The father of 43 year old Anthony Dwayne
McRae says his son was very attached to his mother, who died two years ago.
But he became isolated and quote, "evil angry" following her death. We've also learned that he previously pleaded guilty to a firearms charge back in
Security correspondent Josh Campbell has been following the story closely, joins me now from Los Angeles, with details on a recent U.S. Secret Service
study focusing on mass shooters.
Josh, let me ask you about this study and how the Michigan State shooter fits into the findings.
How much does the profile of a mass shooter evolve here?
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Good to be with you, Isa. When our viewers think about the U.S. Secret Service, they tend to think about
security agents around the President of the United States and protect him or her.
There is actually an entire team within the Secret Service. Their job is to study mass shootings. They obviously want to prevent future attacks. They
just did a study looking at 180 mass shooters in the United States.
While there's no typical profile of a single mass shooter, it's interesting when you look at this Michigan State shooter because he appears to be
somewhat of an outlier. Most mass shooters in the United States, according to Secret Service, are young, white males. This suspect, obviously, an
African American male, 43 years of age.
His age is also interesting because that age range only makes up about 20 percent of the mass shooters that have been seen in the United States. But
when you look at what the Secret Service found about key attributes of shooters in the U.S., I'll show you some of those, you really start to see
a lot of commonalities with the shooter.
They found that many mass shooters exhibited behavior that concerned family -- or members or friends prior to the attack. Many of the shooters also had
firearms that were possessed illegally.
They also experienced stressful events across various life domains, including in their family relationships, in their personal relationships,
It's interesting because CNN heard from the father of the shooter, who said that his son was in this downward spiral over the last two years since the
death of his mother. That tends to track very closely with what the Secret Service found.
CAMPBELL: A lot of these shooters showed, Isa, concerning behavior just prior to the attack.
SOARES: What should people be looking out for?
What are the warning signs here?
CAMPBELL: This is so important. There's often this stigma, when people think about picking up the phone and calling police, calling authorities
when they see concerning signs.
But security experts say that it's time to get past that stigma. In the United States, there is a gun violence epidemic. So what law enforcement
and security researchers are asking is for the public simply to be aware, to look for people who are becoming more and more detached from society.
People who have maybe articulated want to harm themselves and those two attributes coupled with someone wanting to obtain firearms, that should be
a red flag. That should be a warning sign.
Interesting, researchers actually look at three different areas, where shooters have exhibited signs. It's in their family relationships. It's at
work. It's at school. So people that are immediately around people who might be exhibiting these behaviors need to pick up the phone and call
To give you an example as well, Isa, people say, why aren't the police picking up on these science?
In the Secret Service study, only about 2 percent of the time that law enforcement even know about these suspects prior to the attack. Whereas
there was about 90 percent incidents where people in the shooter's orbit knew something was wrong.
I want you to take a listen to a very senior FBI official that we spoke with, who said that, look, it's past time that we get past the stigma. Have
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHERINE SCHWEIT, RETIRED SENIOR FBI AGENT: If it's a schoolmate, 90-some percent of the time, it's one of their classmates; 70 percent to 80 percent
of the time, it's one of the teachers or faculty members.
If it's an individual who's not in school, then we're looking for somebody who is their partner, their spouse, their workmate. It's really hard
sometimes to get people over the hump of "I don't want to get involved."
But I would say think about this. You are not only potentially saving somebody who you know, because you're around them, from committing suicide
and killing other people but you may be saving your own life or the lives of your own family members.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMPBELL: And that is such a key point. We often seen in these mass shootings, there's also domestic violence component as well. If you have
someone in your family, a friend of yours, who you see is on this road, spiraling downward, police say that you need to call authorities. Get them
help, get them intervention.
They cannot only go out and kill other people -- because we've seen domestic violence so closely associated with these attacks -- your own life
could be in jeopardy as well, Isa.
SOARES: If you see something that doesn't look right or you feel something is not right, call and really put an -- put an end to this. Thanks very
much, Josh Campbell, appreciate it.
CAMPBELL: You bet.
SOARES: Well, the gunman who killed 10 people in a racist attack at a supermarket in Buffalo, New York, last May has just been sentenced. Payton
Gendron was given 10 concurrent life sentences in prison without parole, one for each person he killed.
During his statement, he said that he, quote, "did a terrible thing" that day. And he admitted he, quote, "shot and killed people because they were
Emotions at the sentencing ran high as you can imagine. At one point, a man rushed the 19-year-old killer, with police having to intervene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE). We love our kids. We never go in those neighborhoods and take people out.
SOARES (voice-over): Authorities say the man will not be charged.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: We are back after this short break.
SOARES: We will take you back now to NATO's appeal for more military support for Ukraine, as it tries to fight off a Russian offensive.
Jens Stoltenberg says there is a window of opportunity to help Ukraine tip the balance, he says. At a meeting in Brussels, the NATO chief said other
countries are at risk as well, including Bosnia Herzegovina, Georgia as well as Moldova.
Belarus has played a key role in the war on Ukraine, something that Alexander Lukashenko's regime can get even more involved. CNN's Fred
Pleitgen paid a visit to the border region inside Belarus accomplished by government officials.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's a pretty tense atmosphere here at the border between Belarus and Ukraine. I'm
actually standing pretty much right at the border. This is still on the Belarusian side. You can see the Belarusians have put up a little bit of
But the Ukrainians have absolutely fortified their side of the border. Of course, they say that they fear that there could be another invasion by
Russian forces onto their territory, coming from the territory of Belarus.
Now as you can see on the Ukrainian side, there's several layers of barbed wire there; there is also those earth mounds that have absolutely fortified
and barricaded that border crossing over there.
The Belarusians are saying that, on their side, technically, this crossing is still working. But the Ukrainians have shut down that side of the
border. And they certainly aren't letting anyone through.
There's also a little bit of international trolling going on here, as well. If you look back in the distance, you can see, on the other side flies the
Ukrainian flag. But next to the Ukrainian flag, there is a white, red, white flag and that is the flag of the Belarusian opposition.
Certainly, that Belarusian authorities are happy about that at all. The border guards that we're with here have called this a provocation on the
part of the Ukrainians. But the Ukrainians, of course, say they believe that Belarus is complicit in Russia's invasion of Ukraine. And they fear
that there could be more to come.
They believe there could be a spring offensive in the making and there could be elements coming from Belarus as well, not necessarily ground
forces like in the initial invasion but certainly some air assets.
And that is a big fear on the part of Ukrainians. The Belarusians are saying that all things they are doing on their side of the border are all
defensive in nature. But right now, as you can see here, an extremely tense situation between these two countries -- Fred Pleitgen, CNN, on the
SOARES: And still to come tonight, music meets fashion as star Pharrell Williams joins Louis Vuitton. That is next.
SOARES: It's not every day that a song perfectly captures your mood. But for hitmaker and style icon, Pharrell Williams, it might just have
(VIDEO CLIP, "HAPPY")
SOARES: Now I shall be singing that for the rest of the day. He's best known as the Grammy Award winning producer, singer and songwriter. But now
he has a new gig as creative director of Louis Vuitton's menswear. For more on what this move means for Williams and Louis Vuitton, we want to bring in
Segun Oduolowu, host of "The List."
It's great to have you on the show, my friend. Look, I think it's fair to say we are all fans of Pharrell Williams.
But is he the right person for this job here?
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, HOST, "THE LIST": Absolutely. Because Pharrell has the massive shoulders to take on the responsibility that Virgil Abloh, the
previous creative director, left for him.
And if you look at Pharrell's career, those glasses everyone is looking at are a collaboration that he did with Tiffany's. Those are diamond encrusted
Tiffany glasses that he's been wearing throughout awards season.
And Tiffany's is owned by LVMH, which also owns Louis Vuitton. So this is just staying in the family. Pharrell has been a fashion icon for years. I
actually host the American Image Awards for the fashion industry. And part of that is the AAFA and the CFDA, the Council of Fashion Designers of
America, that awarded Pharrell fashion icon back in 2015.
Fashion is not a hobby for this man; it's a way of life. He is intertwined with different brands. He was the first male ambassador for Chanel. So it's
only logical that someone who is as talented as he is in music has fashion right along with it. Although I don't know if he'll be able to pull off
that hat that we just saw him wearing. Only few can do that.
SOARES: I'm sure you would. But let me play devil's advocate here. He has style; we know that he has collaborated with many fashion houses and big
But wouldn't this have been a great opportunity for younger talent to come in instead of calling in a big name here.
ODUOLOWU: Well, Isa, the answer to all of our questions is always money.
Who is going to move the needle?
And a young designer, regardless of talent, to carry a brand that is almost 200 years old like Louis Vuitton, is not an easy thing. Pharrell can reach
areas that a younger designer couldn't and wouldn't be able to do.
So it's not a knock that they've elevated Pharrell to this at the time when it was Virgil Abloh. It took Louis Vuitton to new heights. And I think
Pharrell, who has always been in design, I don't think that a younger designer really can hold a candle to what Pharrell has been able to
And when you are the creative director, your job is to influence style, influence fashion and Pharrell has been doing this for decades with music
as well as fashion. I mean, he is a triple threat.
SOARES: This, perhaps, suggests -- you are saying that big luxury brands, companies, are looking to turn their brands into global pop culture
movements. I'm thinking back to Louis Vuitton's men's show.
Rosalia, the Spanish superstar, she put on quite a performance. And I think that had more to do with creating a social media moment.
Is this what they're trying to create?
ODUOLOWU: Yes, it's always about moments. We live in a culture now, where it is the moments that matter. If it didn't happen on Instagram or if we
didn't see it on social media, it didn't exist.
ODUOLOWU: And these things are talked about. They are buzzed about. Naming Pharrell as creative director is going to generate buzz. We are talking
about it now. But I don't want people to think that this is just a publicity stunt because Pharrell has the bona fides in fashion, as well as,
as I said, the triple threat.
Not only is he music, not only is he fashion but he's Black. And in America, the median age of Black people at 32, 47 million individuals, have
$1.6 trillion of buying power. It is not a stretch to see how you get to Pharrell and his influence, not only in America but globally.
His music transcends, his fashion transcends. His art form and his color transcends now. There is a hip-hop movement in every country and LVMH would
love to tap into all of those markets.
SOARES: I have no doubt, given the pressures they are facing in markets such as Russia and China, with COVID-19, this is very much a huge welcome
and an important decision. Segun, always great to get your insight, my friend. You could rock that hat, that suit, as well as those glasses any
day. Thanks very much, good to see you.
ODUOLOWU: Thank you, Isa. Yes, with this shirt and that hat, I'd look like a lumberjack.
SOARES: We'll discuss this after the show. Segun, appreciate it.
And thank you for staying with us. Do stay right here. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next. We'll see you tomorrow.