Return to Transcripts main page

Isa Soares Tonight

Western Leaders Gather In Munich To Hear Ukraine's Pleas For Speedy Support; Five Former Police Officers Plead Not Guilty In Tyre Nichols' Death; Canadian And U.S. Women's Football Teams Unite In Protest; Death Toll Approaching 44,000 After Eleven Days; U.S. "Deeply Dismayed" By Israel's Settlement Expansion; EPA Chief Vows To Hold rail Company Accountable For Disaster. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired February 17, 2023 - 14:00   ET



CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: Hello, and a very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Christina Macfarlane in for Isa Soares.

Tonight, key western leaders gather in Munich, as Kyiv calls on its allies to rapidly step up their support. Then the five officers charged with the

murder of Tyre Nichols appear in court and plead not guilty on all counts.

Plus, two women football teams stand together for gender equality and equal pay. What their protests means for the game just ahead. Be prepared for a

long war. Ukraine's allies are urging each other to commit for the long haul as Russia shows no sign of shutting down its war machine. Right now,

hundreds of politicians, military officials and diplomats from around the world are gathering at the Munich Security Conference.

Germany and chancellor -- German Chancellor Olaf Scholz congratulated them, saying the West is putting on a show of unity like never before. And he's

asking allies to act quickly to deliver the tanks they've promised to Ukraine. Appearing by video, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy

agreed, telling the conference that time is of the essence.


VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT, UKRAINE: We need to hurry up. We need the speed, speed of our agreements, speed of our delivery to strengthen our

sling speed of decisions, to limit Russian potential. There is no alternative to speed because it is the speed that the life depends on.


MACFARLANE: And our Christiane Amanpour joins me now live from Munich, outside the conference. Christiane, we heard President Zelenskyy there

urging allies to act quickly, saying time is of the essence. But we know that it's the supply of basic weapons, not just tanks and heavy armory, but

ammunition that is a real concern among western allies right now. Did Chancellor Olaf Scholz or other world leaders respond to you about that


CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Absolutely, they did. Volodymyr Zelenskyy portrayed the battle effort in Ukraine as a David

versus Goliath. Ukraine's David fighting for world of morals, principles and the world order, against an illegal invasion by Putin's Goliath. So, in

that regard, he did ask for all the help that he possibly could get in order to fulfill what the western alliance says, which is that Putin cannot

win and Ukraine must win.

So I asked Chancellor Scholz, of course, he is the host of this conference here in Germany about the worries about stockpiles for ammunition. And he

portrayed it in a very interesting way. He said just like the car industry, which is always ready to ramp up its productions and have stockpiles,

that's what we need to do to our arms and ammunition industry. This is what he said.


AMANPOUR: How can you continue to prosecute this war if you're running out of ammunition and the production has not yet ramped up?

OLAF SCHOLZ, CHANCELLOR, GERMANY: First, I discussed very often with Jens and also with Boris, the Defense Minister in Germany, and my Foreign

Minister, Annalena, that we have to change the way of dealing with the industry. So in the last years, more and more we thought that the relation

between the public defense department and the industry is something very similar to a company that is buying a car.

So, there is always a stock of cars, there is a permanent production, there is always what you need for maintenance. The way we did it in the past in

the last 20 years or so, is that we once ordered and we agreed that the production is stopping because we have already bought what we need. So we

have to understand that, for our security, we have to change the way of dealing this fact.

We need a permanent production of the most important weapons we are using, and this is also due to maintenance questions. And this is also due to the

question of ammunition. And so this is what we are learning, but learning it means that we are now taking action in case of our old defense

capabilities, but also doing it in supporting Ukraine.


AMANPOUR: So the basic principles of manufacturing. Also, there seems to be consensus, at least, on day one from all the people I'm talking to, that

Vladimir Putin shows no signs at all yet, be willing to negotiate in good faith.


So this war is going to go on, even while President Zelenskyy said he really needs it to end this year.

MACFARLANE: And Christiane, on the opposite side of the weapons spectrum, I guess, you can call it, Ukraine have been calling for fighter jets. And

those calls have just grown louder and louder. Do you have a sense that this is perhaps going to go the way of the tanks, of the Leopard tanks,

that sooner or later, western allies will agree to this.

AMANPOUR: So I did pose that question, precisely as you suggested. But what also we're hearing from all of the principles is that the planes are

off the table for now. But as you mentioned, it was no, yes for the tanks. We don't know, but it's not the main -- at least, they're telling us that,

it's not the main avenue of interest and urgency right now.

That's ammunition and more long-range artillery and air defense and all the rest of it for the moment, plus getting those tanks there.

MACFARLANE: Yes, absolutely, and of course, the tanks themselves are still a question mark, it's kind of ironic, I guess, that Germany are the ones

who are under pressure for supplying tanks. And now it's the western allies who appear to be behind in supplying theirs. So, do you have a sense of

where we are at with the supply of tanks to Ukraine at this point?

AMANPOUR: Yes, I mean, it is quite ironic that now, Germany, having unleashed its provision for others to sell or rather to transfer their

German-made tanks -- German bought tanks to Ukraine. But Germany having done that as well, now there seems to be some reluctance amongst the third


So what he said was that he's getting his defense minister to gather around a coalition, to try to get a coalition of the tank-willing, so to speak, to

send them for when they're needed. And then the other question, of course, is how much visibility does the West have on what Russia's plan is, and

what its offensive is? Right now, they don't see a huge build-up.

MACFARLANE: Well, Christiane, it's great to have you there asking the important questions for us. Christiane Amanpour there live in Munich

tonight. And Ukraine is urging any civilians who remain in Bakhmut to leave immediately as Russia intensifies efforts to seize the city. Our Sam Kiley

is reporting tonight from eastern Ukraine.

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Christina, they're fighting around Bakhmut and the villages close to it has been increasingly

intense. That were possible after several months of what both sides described with a miserable term the meat grinder. At the same time, Russian

forces are conducting what should be described as shaping operations, probing attacks, artillery, increased levels of artillery, really along the

whole line of this some 800-mile frontline.

And this is all coming at a time when the Ukrainians know that they don't have a lot of time. The Russians have the edge in terms of equipment and in

terms of personnel. But we went out recently on an exclusive trip, a series of trips with the Ukrainian aviators flying helicopters on the frontline.

This is their story.


KILEY (voice-over): The target is Russian troops. A hard bang left, and a dive. And flares to distract heat seeker missiles. A pair of Ukrainian

helicopters on an assault against Russian forces close to Bakhmut.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Russian aircraft waiting around the border, it's on the frontline. We should be careful when we go. We should fly on very low

altitude and very low speed to prevent our recognition.

KILEY: Below, trenches, and east Ukrainian villages smashed by war. Back from the sortie, this forward base is secret, as low profile as possible.

The MIA helicopters are refueled and re-armed. They expect to fly at least three sorties a day.

(on camera): When you took off this morning, were you frightened?


KILEY: Well, because the Russians want to kill you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't have any other choice than to fight the Russians. If you are frightened, you should stay at home.

KILEY (voice-over): That's not an option here.

(on camera): This Soviet-era helicopter is about 30 years old. The threat against it is extreme. And as a result of that, we are having to fly quite

literally below the height of trees, climbing and tipping with every piece of woodland that we pass.


Built as transport aircraft, they're most vulnerable when they climb to shoot their rockets. Diving for cover to 20 feet above the ground is also

perilous. A change in sound indicates a tree strike by the helicopters blades. Back at base, the blades are swapped quickly. Ukraine doesn't have

aircraft to spare nor pilots.

Serhiy's(ph) skipper, the chopper that hit the trees. He tells me, in December, a very close friend of mine died. A lot of people I knew, friends

have already died, unfortunately. It's very painful and I'm very upset and I cannot move on. He went on, "we need new attack helicopters, new jets.

Unfortunately, our equipment is old and its range is very small and it's inaccurate.

A year into fighting Russia's invasion, Ukraine is still asking for more advanced helicopters and jets. So far, the response from her allies has

been, sorry, but no. And so, they fight on here with what they've got.


KILEY: Now, Christina, on the ground, things are even more problematic and more miserable. Ukrainian commanders and indeed people fighting at grant

level all talk about the dire shortage they have of ammunition, particularly for artillery shells and tank shells. They're running very low

on them. Ukraine doesn't have any production capacity of its own.

It's been relying on Soviet-era stockpiles, and those are running almost dry. This coming at a time when Zelenskyy, once again, is out talking to

the international community, this time at the Munich Conference, reiterating his point that he needs jets, he needs helicopters, and he

needs long-range missiles, and above all, the Ukrainian armed forces, Christina, need ammunition.

MACFARLANE: Our thanks to Sam Kiley for that. Now in Munich, the Dutch Prime Minister promised to do everything possible to support Ukraine. One

thing Ukraine is asking for is fighter jets. The Dutch Minister of Defense says it's a complicated request, but not impossible. Dutch Defense Minister

Kajsa Ollongren joins me now live from Munich.

Minister, thank you so much for your time this evening. We know that the issue of fighter jets is not something that many countries are ready to

address. But you have received a formal request from Ukraine for F-16 fighter jets. What are the conditions that need to be met before --


MACFARLANE: You would consider supplying your F-16s?

OLLONGREN: Well, first of all, we've said that we really take every request from Ukraine for weapons very seriously. And we understand this

request. But this is something that needs careful consideration, and it also needs coordination with countries that actually have this capability.

And I think -- and I discussed this also with my Ukrainian colleague, this is not something that will go very quickly, it takes a lot of time.

It takes training time, and it's about more than just the fighter jets, it's also about how to use it. It's about technicians. So what Ukraine

needs now is the weapons that it can get quickly, that was the appeal of President Zelenskyy, and the weapons that can make the difference in the

fights in the coming months in Russian offensive, in the counteroffensive that we're also expecting.

So, we have to work on all of that, but as far as F-16s goes, we are discussing it behind closed doors, and it's something for the longer term.

MACFARLANE: Yes, it is a complex issue, as you say. And one I think we should take time to understand. One of the conditions, as I understand it,

of you -- of sending F-16s is having agreements from the U.S. government. We know that President Biden has publicly said no to the idea of sending

fighter jets to Ukraine.

Do you think the U.S. and western allies will change their opinion on this at some point? Do you think they will change their minds?

OLLONGREN: Well, of course, it's too soon to tell. And as I said, we have to discuss it amongst friends, partners. And of course, you were right, the

United States would have to approve, because it's an American weapon capability. But we're not there yet. So I think we have started the

discussion, and at the same time, we have to keep our focus on urgently getting the Ukrainians the other weapons you mentioned.

The tanks, the ammunition, the air defense, the patriots that we are cooperating with the United States and Germany on.

MACFARLANE: Just a final question on the fighter jets. Would you consider training Ukrainian fighter pilots in the same way that Britain have stepped

up to do, you know, while you wait for any decision to be made?


OLLONGREN: We feel we should have the debate about the whole package first. And once we've had that, then it's time to decide on what you could



OLLONGREN: But I cannot stress enough that the coming months are going to be crucial, and the fighter jets are not going to make the difference in

the coming months. But other things can. And that is what we need to step up and that is what we need to do.

MACFARLANE: So how great a concern is it to you, the lack of ammunition, this lack of stockpiles that we're hearing about as we prepare for what --

you know, Chancellor Olaf Scholz called today, the long haul?

OLLONGREN: Yes, well, I think the coming weeks and months are absolutely crucial. And I think we are -- the countries that are helping Ukraine are

doing a lot of things at the same time. We're working on the training of Ukrainians, also on specific capabilities, but also basic training. We are

working on the spare parts, we're working on the maintenance.

But of course, ammunition is crucial. And there's also a fact that Ukraine is fighting with different systems that need different ammunition. So it is

a bit of a struggle, but I think we're stepping up. And I think industry also has to step up because it's absolutely crucial to get that ammunition

and to get it there in time.

MACFARLANE: Minister, we are a week away now from the anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. And we have been hearing now for weeks, if

not months, about the threat of a Spring offensive. Do you and your defense minister colleagues have any idea of what we can expect, you know, as we

look ahead to that date? Do you have any concept of what Russia are planning?

OLLONGREN: Well, it's difficult to say. But what we are seeing, of course, is that Russia is not giving up. Not at all. They seem to be preparing for

more. They've down the mobilization, and they're prepared to continue and to continue the offensive and to intensify the fight. We are already

seeing, of course, that the fight is intensifying.

But I think what is most important is our response to that. Because our response to that is to continue our support to Ukraine, to step up our

efforts, and also to prepare -- be prepare to be in it for the long haul, if necessary. And that, in the end, we'll have to convince Putin and the

Kremlin that, this is a fight and a war that they cannot win.

Because Ukraine has many friends and allies, powerful ones, that can provide them also for the long run with whatever they need in weaponry. And

that is the message that we are sending. So we'll have to wait and see what Putin decides, but that is what we are going to do.

MACFARLANE: Well, we really appreciate you stepping out to give us your time and to reiterate that message to us this evening. Defense Minister,

thank you very much there, live from Munich.

OLLONGREN: Thank you.

MACFARLANE: On Friday, Russia's Vladimir Putin hosted his Belarusian counterpart, Alexander Lukashenko. Mr. Putin says the two leaders would

discuss military cooperation between their countries. Belarus, as you know, supported Russia's military actions in Ukraine, and military drills between

the two countries have led many to believe that Belarusian troops could soon join Moscow's forces in Ukraine.

Mr. Lukashenko has repeatedly dismissed these concerns. A night-time military raid inside Syria has killed a senior ISIS leader, but left four

U.S. soldiers wounded. U.S. Central Command said the service members and a working dog were injured in what it called an explosion on target. The

helicopter raid involving U.S. and Syrian democratic forces happened Thursday night in northeastern Syria.

An official tells CNN, three service members and a dog are now getting medical treatment in Iraq and are in stable condition. The fourth service

member has already returned to duty. All right, still to come tonight, the fired Memphis police officers accused of beating Tyre Nichols to death

appear in court.

How they pleaded to murder charges and what Nichols mother said about them afterwards. And later, mounting health concerns for residents of an Ohio

village after a derailed train spilled toxic chemicals in their backyard.



MACFARLANE: Security forces have regained control of the police headquarters in Karachi, Pakistan, hours after it came under attack by

militants with guns and grenades.




MACFARLANE: This was the first video into CNN from Karachi. You can hear almost constant gunfire in the background. The Pakistan Taliban have

already claimed responsibility. But an official tells CNN that all the attackers were killed. Tense scenes are emerging of armed police crouching

behind vehicles as the attack stretched late into the night.

We know that at least, four people other than the attackers are dead, and at least 14 people were injured. Now, the five former Memphis police

officers who were caught on video brutally beating Tyre Nichols face multiple charges today in a Tennessee courtroom. All five entered not

guilty pleas to charges including murder, assault and kidnapping in Nichols' death.

They were all wearing matching black face masks. Nichols' family members were also in court, although, they did not speak. Later, Nichols' mother

said the officers lacked the courage to look at me in my face. Well, CNN's Nick Valencia joins us now with more. Nick, this was an emotional day for

Tyre's family, for his mother, RowVaughn Wells and the community as a whole.

All five police officers pleaded not guilty. And now, of course, the judicial process is underway. Did we learn anything more about how this

case is going to go today?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, according to the judge, it's going to take a while to play out, Christina. And it certainly was an emotional

day to underscore that. The first time that we see these officers since the brutal beating of Tyre Nichols, the video was made public. And the judge

emphasizing that this case is going to take a while.

And perhaps, probably the biggest challenge for the district attorney's office in prosecuting this case is their burden to prove that the officers

knew that their actions would lead to the death of Tyre Nichols. And it was after the arraignment was over that we got a glimpse into the defense of

some of these attorneys for the charged officers.

Of course, they're facing second-degree murder charge, assault and kidnapping. And it was one of the attorneys for one of the officers charged

who tried to make the argument that his client, Tadarrius Bean was actually seen on camera trying to help Nichols by propping him up, and was never

seen at any point in the videos that we've seen so far beating on Nichols.

And then we heard from a separate attorney who appear to allege that his client's raise would play a factor and was relevant to his due process.

Take a listen.


BLAKE BALLIN, LAWYER FOR FORMER POLICE OFFICER DESMOND MILLS JR.: Let's not forget that my client is a black man in a courtroom in America. This is

a country where black people are incarcerated at five times the rate of white people. Much has been said about the way the system has failed Mr.



I will work tirelessly to make sure the system does not fail Mr. Mills, and that a fair outcome is achieved.


VALENCIA: Arguing for his client's due process in the face of raw emotions. Ballin went on to say that justice for Mr. Nichols will not be

achieved at the expense of justice for his client. The district attorney's office continues to investigate this, saying that they're looking at

everyone who was on the scene that day.

And there's a possibility for more charges. Already 13 officers have either been disciplined or will face discipline for their involvement. And they

are also, Christina, looking into pending and past cases involving these five or six terminated officers, and that amounts to about a 100 cases that

they're looking into. So they certainly have their work cut out for them.

Meanwhile, just very quickly here. We are waiting for the release of additional video. About 20 hours of additional video that could be released

by the Shelby County -- or by the city, rather, in the coming weeks. Christina?

MACFARLANE: So much more to come, Nick, as you say, a long-running case ahead of us. We'll obviously be following it every step of the way. Nick

Valencia there, thank you.

VALENCIA: You bet.

MACFARLANE: All right, still to come tonight, we'll meet an earthquake survivor in Turkey who says his four-year-old daughter willed him to stay

alive in the rubble. Plus, an American town in fear of health risks after a derailed train spilled a torrent of toxic chemicals. What health experts

are saying.


MACFARLANE: All right, welcome back. Now, many international rescue teams have now left the quake zone in Turkey and Syria, as hopes of finding any

more survivors dim by the hour. Yet, 11 days after the quake, a handful of people are defying the odds. A 12-year-old boy was pulled alive from the

rubble in Turkey, one of them, the few survivors found.

Turkey's vice president says search and rescue operations have dwindled to less than 200 in the quake region. Nearly 44,000 people are now confirmed

dead. Millions of others need lifesaving aid after their homes were destroyed. More of that aid is now reaching northwest Syria. U.N. says 143

relief trucks have entered rebel-held territory through two-border crossings with Turkey. And we've been hearing expressions of deep gratitude

from those who've made it out of the rubble. But many have then been confronted with terrible loss. CNN's Sara Sidner spoke to one bereaved

survivor who says he still has a reason to hope.


SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): "Ahmet Ayyan is grieving the loss of his wife and son, while clinging to the one person who willed him

to stay alive. My daughter was telling me, 'papa, don't cry, relax. They're coming to rescue us,'" he says. This is Ahmet four days after he was buried

neck-deep in rubble with his wife and two children. Only he and his 4-year old daughter, Gada (ph), made it out alive. "We stayed under the rubble

about four days. When the building fell down, my daughter was on my leg. Thank God there wasn't any rocks or something on her." She was rescued

first. A half hour later, he was and the two got separated. He was taken to a hospital. She was eventually taken to social services with barely a

scratch on her. For days, he had no idea where his little angel was.


SIDNER: Did you worry that you'd never seen her again?


SIDNER: "No, never," he says.


SIDNER: You knew you'd see her again.


SIDNER: And he was right. This is the day they will reunite. They scream and cry, elated to hold each other once more. "On the fourth day, my

daughter told me, 'Look, Papa, there is light.' I didn't understand the light at the time," he says. "Then I heard some voices." Those were the

voices of rescuers, and a family member later found her in social services and made the connection.

Can Gursoy is hoping beyond hope he, too, will be reunited with his parents. I have one request for you. Please help me find my mother, Shukran

Erdan (ph)," he tells us. He and his family were trapped inside this collapsed building for 24 hours. He and his sister made it out. His mother

has not been seen since. "I remember the collapsing of the building. I remember passing out after a piece of the house hit me in the eye," he



SIDNEY: Can you describe what it was like in this tight space physically for you?


SIDNEY: "It was so difficult to breathe there. On the other hand, there was something crushing my leg, making me suffer," he says. Ultimately, it was

his decision to pull on a bit of the curtains that were visible to the outside that alerted someone he was alive. While he continues searching for

his mother, Ahmet is nursing his foot injury, while thanking God he has at least one child left to love. "That's my daughter," he says, "And she's my

little hero. My hero." Sara Sidner, CNN, Adana, Turkey.


MACFARLANE: Just some remarkable stories of rescue these last few days. All right. The U.S. says it's deeply dismayed over Israel's major announcement

to expand settlements, but in just a few days, we'll know whether it's just made enough to take action. The U.N. Security Council is expected to

consider a resolution Monday that demands an immediate end to Israeli settlement activity, which is illegal under international law. Israel

retroactively legalized nine outposts in the occupied West Bank and said it will build almost 10,000 new homes in existing settlements. The U.S. joined

international condemnation, but it also called the draft resolution unhelpful to achieving peace suggesting it may use its veto power to block


All right. Still to come tonight, residents of a small American town say they're getting sick from chemicals this derailed train has spilled. What

the U.S. government is now doing. Plus enough is enough is the message from the Canadian Women's Football team. We'll have why next.



MACFARLANE: The U.S. has deployed a team of medical experts to the state of Ohio where a train carrying hazardous materials derailed and burned two

weeks ago. It sparked a massive day's long fire evacuations and the controlled release of toxic chemicals. Since then, local residents have

been living in fear not knowing if their water is safe to drink or the air safe to breathe. Many say that chemicals are making them sick. CNN's Brian

Todd reports.


BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anxiety and frustration continue to mount in East Palestine, Ohio.


KRISTINA FERGUSON, EAST PALESTINE, OHIO RESIDENT: People were getting sick. We should not have been let back into town until all of this was done.


TODD: Officials are pumping oxygen into local waterways, hoping that will break down chemicals. They've removed contaminated soil from the area near

a train derailment that unleashed a torrent of toxic chemicals. But about two weeks since that accident, and despite an assurance from the governor

that the town's water is now safe to drink.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you feel confident in that?

Ferguson: Honestly, no, I don't.


TODD: Some residents report symptoms like dizziness, headaches, rashes. They're also complaining about a lack of transparency. Resident Jami Cozza

tells CNN the only reason she knows her house isn't safe to live in is because she demanded that the soil and water be tested. And Norfolk

Southern Railroad sent a toxicologist.


JAMI COZZA, EAST PALESTINE, OHIO RESIDENT: And it's only because I run my mouth that I got this testing done.


TODD: EPA Administrator Michael Regan was on the ground there on Thursday, assuring residents they'll get all the resources they need for the cleanup.

And --


MICHAEL REGAN, EPA ADMINISTRATOR: We are absolutely going to hold Norfolk Southern accountable. And I can promise you that.


TODD: But the railroad is being accused by some residents of ducking accountability after railroad officials bailed on attending a town hall

meeting Wednesday nights citing, "The growing physical threat to our employees," a meeting where residents vented more of their anger.


TRENT CONAWAY, EAST PALESTINE, OHIO MAYOR: They screwed up our town. They're going to fix it. If they don't, I'll be the first one calling all

you back to do this all over again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why are people getting sick if there's nothing in the air or the water?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody that came here expects a hell of a lot more than what we are getting right now."


TODD: Investigators say they haven't found significant traces of the dangerous chemical that escaped from the train, vinyl chloride, in the

local waterways.


But health monitors warn.


WENONAH HAUTER, FOOD AND WATER WATCH: Vinyl chloride causes cancer. If the soil is used in gardens, children play in it, it could be very dangerous,

and the chemical will leach into groundwater.


TOOD: Compounding all the anxiety and uncertainty the community is dealing with are worries about practical living arrangements. East Palestine

resident Jami Cozza told CNN some residents feel they're forced to go back to the town because they don't have the money to move elsewhere. Brian

Todd, CNN, Washington.


MACFARLANE: And our Bill Weir joins me now live from New York with more on what the residents are facing and where the investigation into the cause of

the disaster stands. Good to see you, Bill. I mean, just listening to the residents there, you can hear the alarm in their voices. And it's

understandable because people in that town, we heard, are complaining of headaches, rashes, vomiting. There's even reports, I think, of local

wildlife dying, and yet those residents have been told by authorities it was safe for them to return home. So, what is happening? What are the

government doing on the ground? What more are we learning about the effects of this hazardous material?

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Our heart goes out to, Christina, who was talking there, and all the residents there, they have

been through hell for the last couple of weeks, and those who breathe that air for days or went back maybe too soon have every right to call that out.

It seems like what the state government is trying to do, because the Governor, Mike DeWine, came out today and says we have tested dozens and

dozens of times, trust me, you can drink the water.

But then literally moments later, a Republican state senator went on Fox News and says I don't believe him because I get a sore throat every time I

go back home. And so you can't blame folks in this region for mistrust. They actually live in a spot with a legacy of sort of coal runoff, and

pollution, and very little political power.

But as for the water itself, that is, you know, the Ohio River, the EPA has been watching that closely for years. It was used -- in my -- when I was a

boy, it used to ignite on fire. It was so polluted, it's not clean enough, you could swim in it. And they drink from it in many cities after treating

it, that initial fish kill that happened when those chemicals were released, that hasn't continued. So there's no continuing source of these

toxins right there. It's just a matter of how much got into the ground.

MACFARLANE: And, Bill, the lack of corporate responsibility here is also really concerning. Very little effort, it seems, by Norfolk Southern to

help rehouse residents, or even show up to a town meeting on Wednesday night. Is it because, you know, this really was an accident waiting to


WEIR: Well, you can certainly make that argument and there will be eight class action lawsuits so far that have been filed that will make the --

will point out that sparks were coming off of that rear axle on a town 45 minutes away from the final crash site. Norfolk Southern is among all the

railroads, which in recent years, has decided you can make a lot more profits by building longer trains with fewer people, that, you know, is

borne out the safety hazards of making that -- this business decision is what we're living through right now.

But if they were afraid of getting beaten up by the victims of their own train wreck, the people from Norfolk Southern could have joined via Zoom.

Everybody knows how to do that in 2023, and, yes, the response, the, you know, the paltry amount of money, given the size of their operating

revenues, they really have a lot of trust to build up, you know. They say - - the CEO says we will be judged by our actions. Well, everybody's waiting for you to, like you say, step up with housing, and even just a

compassionate ear for folks who've been through a lot.

MACFARLANE: And what's also crazy, Bill, is there was another derailment by Northern southern in Detroit, just in the last 24 hours. Speaking to the

history of this company and the government's interaction with this company, what changes need to happen here?

WEIR: Well, there was, during the Obama administration, efforts to make modern brakes basically mandatory on those hazardous chemical cars. Right

now, the trains are running on brake systems from the Civil War era, from the 1860's, that brake from the front to the back. This would stop all the

cars at once. Pete Buttigieg seem to indicate that his hands are tied, that he couldn't force that sort of safety feature on the railroads. Some would

argue you absolutely could. What's other interesting is, in the Supreme Court right now, there's a case Norfolk Southern is being sued by a former

employee who got sick from toxins, is suing because they didn't protect him. He sued in Pennsylvania even though he'd never worked there.

And now, the White House is actually on the side of the railroad and most of corporate America at the Supreme Court to shoot this down. It's part of

sort of a venue shopping for plaintiffs that they're trying to limit. But the timing of this right now that Norfolk Southern.


And this White House are on the same side in front of the Supreme Court on a case that could limit the damages and, you know, the ability of those

victims of this crash to sue. It's really interesting.

MACFARLANE: Yes, it is interesting. The eyes of the world certainly on this case as things stand. Bill, it's great to have your insight. Thank you so


WEIR: And the U.S. says it's starting to take the long view into its military supplies in Ukraine. Officials say it's time to look beyond what

Ukraine needs now such as Abrams tanks, which the U.S. has promised to deliver, and to look into what Ukraine will need in the long run to deter

any possible future aggression by Moscow. Meantime, the ongoing war is already draining NATO's ammunition stockpiles. And as Oren Liebermann

reports, U.S. Defense factories are preparing to ramp up production.


OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In the steel furnaces of Scranton, Pennsylvania, the weapons of war are in high demand. One ton metal rods

heated and forged into about 11,000 high explosive artillery shells among them. CNN got a rare look inside the Scranton Army Ammunition Plant, one of

only a few in the country that make this crucial round. Here, specially made steel is heated to 2,000 degrees and slowly shaped step by scorching

step into its final product.


LIEBERMANN: To this point, it's only taken a few hours to heat the steel and then to turn it into what looks like an artillery shell to press it

into that familiar shape. But it's still days of testing and inspections to make sure that this can be turned into a 155mm artillery shell that can be

fired on the battlefield.


LIEBERMANN: The process doesn't end here. The empty shells are shipped to another plane for explosives and fuses. 5,000 miles from the frontlines and

Mother Russia, the enemy here is Father Time. Ukraine can burn through the plant's monthly production in half a week, locked in a grinding war of

attrition with Putin's army and Russian mercenaries.


JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: The current rate of Ukraine's ammunition expenditure is many times higher than our current rate of



LIEBERMANN: One year in, the war has turned into a vicious math problem, how to make enough ammo for Ukraine, United States and allies. The Pentagon

is already planning on new ammo plants in Texas and Canada, part of a race to increase the capacity of the defense industrial base. Doug Bush is the

Army's Head of Acquisitions.


DOUG BUSH, U.S. ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE ARMY OF ACQUISITION: Right now, we're meeting demand. I of course I would want it to be faster, everyone

does. But there's a time factor, a year to eighteen months is often what you're looking at.


LIEBERMANN: Bush says this is the greatest ramp-up in military production possibly going back to the Korean War.


BUSH: Early on, we realized we had to really put our foot all the way to the floor.


LIEBERMANN: The goal within two years is to produce five times more artillery rounds each month up to 70,000, twice as many Javelin anti-tank

missiles up to 4,000 a month, 30 percent more rounds for the HIMARS rocket launchers, about 850 a month. Precision weapon Ukraine has used to target

Russian command posts and ammo depots, and 60 Stinger anti aircraft missiles each month. The U.S. isn't at war with Russia. But that matters

little to weapons manufacturers whose products are part of the fight.


SETH JONES, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY PROGRAM DIRECTOR, CSIS: Our defense industrial base is still largely geared towards a peacetime environment and

not towards a wartime or at least a quasi wartime environment that we're now in.


LIEBERMANN: To get a sense of just how much the army is investing in this, within the last couple of weeks, the army has announced 1 1/2 billion

dollars in procurement of new 155mm artillery rounds. They're trying to produce this crucial ammunition faster and then trying to produce more of

it. Oren Lieberman, CNN, at the Pentagon.


MACFARLANE: All right. Still to come tonight, they shouted the message "Enough is enough." We will tell you why the Canadian Women's Football team

is protesting next.



MACFARLANE: Women from Canada and the United States football teams are uniting for gender equality. Canada's players are protesting over pay

inequality and funding cuts. Notice the message on the women's shirts, "Enough is enough." The teams gathered in a circle before kickoff to show

solidarity. It's all ahead of their opening match of the She Believes Cup in Florida, which Canada is participating in under protest.

Well, regarded as one of the greatest female football athletes of all time, former U.S. national soccer team player Michelle Akers joins me now. It's

an honor and a privilege to have you on the show. Thank you for your time.


MACFARLANE: Yes, so we heard U.S.'s Women's National Team Player, Megan Rapinoe, say that these two teams are bitter rivals on the pitch, but

bigger allies off it. And of course, as we know, the U.S. women have been here before, winning their fight for equal pay last year. So how important

was this moment of solidarity?

AKERS: Well, I was at the game last night and to know what was going on with Sinclair speaking out, and, you know, obviously aware that the U.S.

the great strides we have made towards gaining more equality, especially with the U.S. Women's National Team. So when they all got together in a

circle, it was emotional. It was emotional, because to see the off-the- field issues, you know, unify two countries that are bitter rivals on the field was really powerful. And it just reminded me that, you know, in order

to get this -- the equal opportunity, equal pay, equal everything across the board in these gender issues, we have to do this together. And so

again, the U.S. women's national team is leading the way in showing us how to do that.

MACFARLANE: I'm sure it was emotional for you in particular, you know. You've fought for equality your entire career. We know that the Canadian

women are now playing under protests prevented from even striking last weekend. I know that you yourself went on strike to demand better

conditions in the lead-up to the '96 Olympic Games. How important is it for Canada's women to hold their nerve in demanding better now, even though

that, you know, may invariably impact their campaign for this year's World Cup?

AKERS: Ye, it's gutsy and it's scary. We had to -- we did the same thing. We went on strike right before the '96 Olympic Games for not even equal

pay, just a raise, and better conditions and to allow us to compete without going into debt. And it was a lot of conversations. It was scary to make

that decision as a team and risk playing in the Olympics and knowing that other players were coming in, they could easily take your place and that

would be the end of your career, or end -- or a large missed opportunity playing at that, you know, in the Olympics or World Cup even.

So It's scary, and I was -- I totally understood the agony they were going through.


I was really disappointed that they decided not to continue to strike. But, again, it's such a hard decision. I -- and I'm not aware of all the

circumstances or situation of what they are facing and what the conversations are with Canada soccer. So, I just encourage them to keep

fighting because taking those risks, and staying together, is how we create change.

MACFARLANE: Yes, it is a good message for them to hear, especially from the likes of yourself, you know, 23 years on from when you hung up your boots,

you were called the warrior in your time.

AKERS: Thank you.

MACFARLANE: And we appreciate your comments this evening. Thank you so much for joining us.

AKERS: Thank you.

MACFARLANE: Now the United Kingdom's "Dinosaur Coast" has unearthed a colossal find a record-breaking Megalosaurus footprint. Measuring nearly a

meter long, it's the largest of its kind. The three-toed footprint is one of only six to ever be found in the area. Local archaeologist Marie Woods

made the discovery and is now the co-author of a study about the footprint.

Once you had to do a double take at the footprint conceded these words, "I can no longer say that archaeologists don't do dinosaurs." Traditionally,

geologists and paleontologists focus on dinosaur fragments for those who are wondering.

OK. Thank you so much for watching tonight. Stay with CNN, we have "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" coming up next.