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Isa Soares Tonight
Taiwan's President Meet's House Speaker Kevin McCarthy In California; World Reacts To Israeli Police Storming Al-Aqsa Mosque; Donald Trump Lashes Out After Indictment; Israel-Gaza Confrontation; Trump Rails Against Prosecution; Zelenskyy On First Trip To Poland Since Russian Invasion. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired April 05, 2023 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, Taiwan's president in California,
sitting down with the U.S. Speaker of the house right now, the high level meeting on U.S. soil, sparking reaction from China. Then --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(GUNFIRE)
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SOARES: Violence inside Jerusalem's Al-Aqsa Mosque. The world is reacting to Israeli police storming the holy site. And then later this hour, Donald
Trump lashes out at the justice system and the officials behind his arrest. What the former president and current candidate is saying about the
historic indictment.
But we begin tonight in Poland. Focus of course, on Ukraine. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is visiting Poland, one of his country's
closest allies. In a speech, he thanked Poland's leaders and its people for their full-throated support during Russia's war with Ukraine. Mr. Zelenskyy
saying nothing can divide the allies or deprive Europe of its freedom. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT, UKRAINE (through translator): Speaking with words of gratitude and strength. Gratitude because there are no
moments when we will be apart. Where we would be not united. Ukrainian and Polish hearts, they beat for one freedom for a common independence of our
countries, for our common Europe, common home. And we will win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, meanwhile, Mr. Duda is promising to send more military jets to Ukraine, and says he will work to obtain security guarantees for Ukraine
at the upcoming summit in Lithuania. Mr. Zelenskyy is acknowledging the possibility of a withdrawal from the city of Bakhmut, but says more
military aid from Poland and other allies could make the difference.
Ukrainian military officials say heavy battles are taking place in the city center on the frontlines around the city. The situation seems to have
stagnated, with neither Russia nor Ukrainian forces making significant progress. Our Ben Wedeman takes us inside the trenches.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the trenches, the deeper you dig, the better. The frontlines in the open plains
of eastern Ukraine are a zigzag of earthworks. In this area, positions have been static for a while. Alexei(ph) from the first tank brigade has been
here for six months.
"Sometimes it's quiet", he says. "And sometimes it's loud." Sometimes they, the Russians try to break through. So far, they haven't succeeded.
(on camera): OK, you might want to get down. OK, we are told that Russian lines are just one kilometer from here. We're hearing occasional shelling,
but nothing coming on this position yet.
(voice-over): This soldier also named Oleksi(ph) peeps through binoculars across no man's land, but only briefly to avoid drawing sniper fire. "To be
honest, at first, I was scared", he says. But humans can get used to everything. They're yet to get used to one threat hovering overhead.
(on camera): All right, we've now taken cover because the soldiers say there's a drone flying over in the area, which they tell us occasionally
drop grenades on their trenches. But not this time.
(voice-over): To the Rear Sergeant Oleg(ph) checks that his Soviet-era T- 64 tanks are in good working order. "It's like an old car, easy to repair", Oleg(ph) tells me. "With new cars, you have to take them to the mechanic,
these are like a simple tractor."
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But these tractors may soon be replaced by newer models. He says some of his comrades are in Poland being trained to use German-made Leopard tanks.
Spring has arrived in these parts and with it, growing anticipation of a Ukrainian offensive, new more modern weapons, and these old hulks could
make all the difference.
Back in the trenches, all is quiet, but as we leave, a drone appears above us. Then our ride out arrives.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up in 30 seconds.
(on camera): Thirty seconds, OK? You got the tree-line and artillery, no time to waste. Ben Wedeman, CNN, eastern Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Well, just an hour ago, U S. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy greeted Taiwan's President Tsai Ing-wen in California. The two are meeting in a
show of solidarity despite criticism from mainland China. This stop is part of a 10-day trip to shore up Taipei's overseas relationship while Miss Tsai
--
(CLEARS THROAT)
Excuse me, is Taiwan's first president to meet with U.S. house Speaker on U.S. soil. Secretary of State Antony Blinken emphasized the visit is
nothing new and China should not take it as an excuse to quote, "ratchet up" tensions. Our security correspondent Josh Campbell joins us now live
from Simi Valley, California, with more.
Josh, good to see you. So this is a pretty symbolic moment for Taiwan. What exactly can we expect to come out of this meeting with Speaker Kevin
McCarthy here.
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Isa, symbolic indeed. And that joint meeting as you mentioned with President Tsai Ing-wen of Taiwan
and Speaker McCarthy is going on right now, and it's not just Republicans. This is a bipartisan delegation meeting with President Tsai to go over a
number of issues.
Obviously, we've seen this democratic solidarity between Taiwan and U.S. officials, and the president herself has been on this international tour
visiting other democratic allies to include Guatemala and Belize. Now, it's important to note that how this language is being described as we've often
seen as officials couch language between U.S. and Taiwanese diplomatic relations is not an official visit.
It's being described as a transit as President Tsai returns back to Taiwan. But they have a number of issues to go over. And this, of course, comes
amid increased U.S. tension between the U.S. and China on a number of issues, including national security concerns that U.S. officials have over
Chinese technology, particularly, the popular app, TikTok, obviously, as well as Chinese territorial claims in the South China sea and as well as
the war in Ukraine.
We've heard from a number of U.S. officials who have criticized China for being too cozy with Russia as it has invaded its neighbors. So, a lot of
issues to discuss, of course, one thing that we will be watching for, Isa, is what the Chinese response will be.
We know that back in August of last year when then house Speaker Nancy Pelosi visited Taiwan, that was fire up, followed by increased military
exercises with over a 100 Chinese aircraft, nearly a dozen warships moving in and around Taiwan, crossing into Taiwanese territorial waters as they
claim they launched a barrage of ballistic missiles as well, some of them entering the Japanese Economic Zone.
So a lot of people on edge right now, waiting to see what the response will be. It is worth pointing out as our colleague Will Ripley has said that
this visit here by President Tsai to the U.S. actually is occurring simultaneous to a visit to China by the French President Emmanuel Macron.
So the question will be, even if China wants to show some type of force, will they do so while that visit itself is underway.
Finally, it's worth pointing out that we will see Speaker McCarthy as well as President Tsai here in just about an hour's time behind me as they
address the public, but again, very symbolic, a very important visit. It's worth pointing out the White House just came out with a statement a short
time ago, saying that they are urging the Chinese not to overreact by this type of engagement, saying that in their view, this is quite common.
SOARES: Yes, and they also said that there were closely monitoring for a response from China warned against taking steps that will cause tensions in
the region to escalate. I want to speak to Will Ripley in just a moment, who's focusing, of course, on Macron's visit to Beijing. But let's bring it
back to Speaker McCarthy.
He has taken, Josh, a pretty hard-line approach to China. In Congress, he, of course, as our viewers will know, he established a special committee on
the threat he says Beijing poses. Is there a risk here, Josh, that -- or worry that this could -- meeting could lead to a repeat of what not -- just
what you said last Summer, but it could rattle Beijing further, alienate Beijing further.
CAMPBELL: I think it's clear that U.S. officials, to include the speaker, realize that President Tsai Ing-wen being here in the United States
obviously is causing anger in China. We hear the same refrain from U.S. officials, both in Congress as well as in the White House, again urging
them not to overreact.
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But they certainly understand what this means. But that's not stopping this visit from going forward. And you know, people ask well, what is the --
what's the importance here as the speaker, his office, his team have definitely say -- said Taiwan represents a strategic point for the United
States on a number of fronts, including economically.
We know that Taiwan itself is important part of the global supply chain as it relates to technology, particularly computing, particularly
semiconductors. There's also Taiwan's geographic interests that you know, the so-called first island chain there near China, which obviously, China
sees that as inhibiting its ability to further progress into the Pacific.
The U.S. -- you know, officials we talked to here say that they see it at the same strategic location to ensure that China doesn't move too far out.
And then finally, there's the democratic aspect of this which we can't overlook as well. And that is, the speaker of the house here in the United
States, his predecessor for that matter, Nancy Pelosi, have both continually said that Taiwan as a democracy remains a close ally of the
United States.
I mean, you compare that to the communist party in China, which is obviously a different form of government as U.S. officials say, a much more
oppressive form of government, they're trying to do everything that they can to support their Taiwanese ally at this critical juncture in
international affairs as all eyes are on this region, and certainly all eyes on to see what the Chinese response will be to this visit.
SOARES: Indeed, Josh Campbell, I know you'll stay across this meeting that is currently underway. Thanks very much, Josh, great to see you. Well,
let's go to Beijing, really focused on that meeting between French President Emmanuel Macron, who is in China right now on a state visit. He
is trying to convince Chinese President Xi Jinping to help end the war in Ukraine and not grow any closer to Moscow.
But Washington is skeptical. Mr. Macron hasn't had much success in his efforts to solve conflicts on the global stage. He had come under fire, if
you remember, last year, over his many phone calls to Russia's Vladimir Putin, which did not stop the full-scale invasion of Ukraine. I want to
bring in CNN's Will Ripley, who now in Taiwan for us.
Will, before we talk about Macron's visit to China, first of all, I want to get your reaction or Beijing's reaction from what you heard to that visit
by Taiwan's president to the U.S. What are you hearing?
WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, anything major that might happen militarily, we would expect it would be after Tsai
Ing-wen arrives back in Taiwan. It would be a hugely provocative if they were to try to do something when she's in the air, flying back to the
democracy that she was elected by 24 million people to govern, and yet, the communist leaders in Beijing do not see her government as legitimate.
That's why these meetings and I think we have a tweet from Speaker McCarthy showing, you know, even though this is, you know, technically an informal
visit, it looks certainly very formal there at the Reagan Presidential Library, as they sit there and Tsai Ing-wen gets to tell the third in line
to the U.S. presidency, her message about Taiwan, the importance of protecting Taiwan's young, fragile and vibrant democracy from this
authoritarian behemoth 110 miles across the Taiwan Strait.
Not to mention the fact that it produces more than half of the world's highly advanced semiconductors. The microchips that power everything from
smartphones to our automobiles, to our laptops, and if there was some sort of a conflict, the current supply chain would be disrupted, and there could
be multi-year backlogs for technology that people rely on in their everyday lives.
And so -- and so, this is really a very important moment for Tsai Ing-wen, because she's been trying, she and her party, the DPP have been trying to
elevate Taiwan's recognition and legitimacy on a global stage despite decades of diplomatic efforts by China to ice them out completely. They
only actually have 13 formal diplomatic allies remaining, very small countries that are those allies.
But this relationship, this friendship with the United States, Republican and Democratic lawmakers making regular visits to Taiwan and Taiwan
welcoming them to show them around here, and show them why they feel that this system needs to be protected. It's very valuable for China and very
infuriating for Beijing.
But will they go so far as they did, Isa, last August, firing ballistic missiles over Taiwan? Will they provoke and distract from that very
important meeting in Beijing with the French President and the EU Commission President? That is really the open question, and you know,
because China is just so -- lack of transparency would be an understatement when it comes to their government and their military. We can guess, but we
just have to really wait and see.
SOARES: On that meeting, Will, between President Macron-Xi Jinping and also Ursula von der Leyen, what did the EU, what does Macron, what does von
der Leyen want to get out of this? Not just economically, but diplomatically here?
RIPLEY: Well, China is trying to repair its -- you know, frayed relationship with the European Union, and this has a lot to do with his
friendship with Vladimir Putin and, you know -- you know, basically being complicit with the war in Ukraine, refusing to condemn it or even calling
an invasion. And yet, the trade relationships here are hugely important.
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China is the top trading partner for so many countries, not only in Europe, but also around the world, including by the way, the island of Taiwan and
the United States. And so, trying to preserve and those economic ties may be more important to Xi Jinping in the short term, given that his economy
has really been struggling post-COVID, but ideology always trumps business in Xi Jinping's view.
That's why he has an echo chamber of yes men, who very much are in support of his view that Taiwan must be brought back into the fold at any cost. And
a lot of people think Xi wants to do it while he is in power. Now, he just got an unprecedented third term. And now, you know, Europe obviously, they
want to get from China some sort of a commitment that they're not going to assist Russia further than they already do.
They're propping up the Russian economy, yes, they're helping keep Russia stable, to keep Russia as a counter-balance against the U.S. But if China
were to actually start, you know, putting weapons into the hands of Russians, that could be game-changers on the battlefield, and thus, deal a
humiliating defeat to, you know, the United States and the EU and the West that have been pumping billions of dollars into weapons to help Ukraine
protect its democracy.
Certainly, Xi Jinping would like to see the United States suffering embarrassing loss, and it would also give him maybe some momentum for his,
you know, eyes on Taiwan down the road. But in the short-term, it's a relationship that's important to China economically. Will that mean that
there's a smaller response this time around, Isa, again, we just have to wait and see.
SOARES: We will, and I know you'll be monitoring all of it. Thanks very much, Will Ripley with that fantastic analysis. And still to come tonight,
multiple deaths reported as a massive storm system threatens millions of people across central United States. We're live in Illinois next. And
imagine getting these little pieces as a gift. They are at the center of a scandal that is prompting police to question Brazil's former President Jair
Bolsonaro, we'll have more on that ahead.
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SOARES: Now, multiple deaths have been reported as a massive storm system rips through the central United States, and this was the damage really left
from a likely tornado in the state of Missouri. Just look at that destruction.
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Officials there say a search and rescue mission for survivors is currently underway, and get this, more than 85 million people are under some level of
severe weather threat across several states. You can see there, the tornado-watch warning in deep red and pink. At least, 10 tornadoes have
been reported, and there are warnings of more, unfortunately, to come, as well as severe thunderstorms as you're seeing there on your screen.
CNN's Adrienne Broaddus is in Illinois in a hard-hit town. Adrienne, just give us a sense of what you are seeing on the ground this hour.
ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon to you. We are seeing the impact that EF-2 tornado will start at this gas station. Two employees
were here. They took cover inside of the bathroom, which is still standing. Meanwhile, the wall that was once here knocked over, the roof lifted, it
jumped over the power lines onto a neighboring business, which we will show you in a moment.
We are going to walk around the corner here, you also see the shattered glass, you see members of law enforcement, removing barricades and putting
up their barricades to keep people out. This is a popular restaurant. If you take a look inside, you can see where the insulation is on the floor
and on tables, part of the H back system ripped out, a photo that once was hanging on the wall is now on the floor.
And you may or may not be able to see it from here. But the cooler on the other side is tilted, all of the soda bottles inside and water flipped
over. Meanwhile, if you take a look at this video from above, you can see this was the heaviest hit area. And there is the roof from that gas
station, which we told you about a moment ago. It landed on top of this tire shop.
I spoke with the owner just a short time ago. He says this black and gray in our -- this gray and black RV was purchased about six months ago, he and
his wife were planning to live in that RV because 3 weeks ago, their home was destroyed in a fire. And now this, he takes comfort knowing he and his
workers were not here.
His life was spared as well as the lives of others. This could have been extremely bad when you think about what could have happened if people were
inside. I'll send it back to you now.
SOARES: Incredibly scary, Adrienne, and I suspect many people there are not out of the woods yet. The more storms from what we just said are
expected. How are people waiting this out?
BROADDUS: You know, in this area, there were some thunderstorm warnings across part of the Midwest, for example. We're talking about Detroit and
Saginaw, Michigan. There is a tornado watch, people have taken the appropriate steps that we've heard from. But as you did mention, the severe
threat is not over.
SOARES: Thank you very much, Adrienne Broaddus there, do stay safe, appreciate it. I want to take you down to a story out of southern Brazil
that is just really hard to fathom. Anguish today as the bodies of four little children are removed from a daycare center after a man attacks them
with an axe.
The children between five and seven years old. Authorities say the 25-year- old suspect scaled the wall of the center's playground. He allegedly wounded four others, the youngest just three years old. Brazil's president
calling the attack monstrous. The suspect later turned himself into police, who have not commented on any kind of motive.
We'll stay on top of that story for you. Still in Brazil, though, former Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro arrived at a federal police station in
Brasilia just minutes ago to answer questions about some very expensive jewelry. Authorities want to know more about three sets of jewelry given to
Bolsonaro by Saudi Arabia when he was in office.
Now, the gifts include, as you can see there, a diamond-studded Rolex watch and other valuables believed to be worth around more than $3 million. None
of the jury was reported as state gifts as would be required by Brazilian law. I want to bring in CNN Brazil reporter Pedro Nogueira with more on all
of this.
Pedro, the gift as we said is valued in the millions of dollars. Just lay out for us, the case against Bolsonaro and what Bolsonaro is saying here.
PEDRO NOGUEIRA, CNN BRAZIL REPORTER: Good afternoon. What Bolsonaro lawyers are saying is that, there's no wrongdoing here, since those gifts
were personal gifts for himself and for the first lady. So getting back to the beginning here on what's happening today, Bolsonaro right now at the
police station, at the headquarters of the federal police of Brazil for his statement.
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What authorities are trying to determine is how much Bolsonaro knew and how deeply he is involved in this attempt to incorporate the jewels, not to the
state portfolio, but to his personal assets. Today, diplomats, staff members and one aide-de-camp are being heard at the police station also. In
Brazil, any item worth more than a $1,000 will be subject to taxes while being brought into the country.
If the jewels were declared as a gift to the state, they could be documented and then incorporated to the presidential selection. But that's
not what actually happened. In addition to the jewels, the United Arab Emirates also gifted Bolsonaro with two firearms, a pistol and a rifle. His
lawyers returned both the jewels and the weapons to the state in attempt -- in response to a court order. Back to you.
SOARES: And Pedro, I mean this case, and these jewels that we're seeing now on our screen, are raising other -- I think it's fair to say legal
questions and issues over the sale of a refinery by Petrobras at the oil giant to a company in the UAE. What can you tell us about this?
NOGUEIRA: There's a couple of diputados, the name in Portuguese for our congressmen that are attempting to investigate the relationship between
those kinds of jewels. Those jewels mentioned in our report as some kind of bribe for this refinery. There is no evidence, hard evidence of this as of
the moment, and this is not yet part of what the police is now investigating.
But this hypothesis has been raised by some congressmen and congresswoman when this scandal started to arise here in Brazil. So, this is one of the
possibilities that politicians are contemplating right now, but at the moment, that is not the main focus of the investigation of the police
authorities.
SOARES: I know you'll stay on top of this story for us. Pedro Nogueira in Brasilia, Brazil, thanks very much, Pedro. Now, Italy's former Prime
Minister Silvio Berlusconi is in intensive care at a hospital in Milan. A spokesperson for his party, Forza Italia says the situation is under
control. The 86-year-old politician was admitted to hospital with chest pain less than a week after he was released.
And still to come on the show tonight, the future of Donald Trump's 2024 presidential run amid his historic indictment. We'll break it all down for
you next.
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(MUSIC PLAYING)
SOARES: Welcome back to the show, everyone. From Cairo to Amman to Ankara. Outrage is growing today after Israeli police stormed one of Islam's
holiest sites during Ramadan prayers.
You're looking at the Al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem. Israeli police were seen in videos on social media, beating some people with batons after storming
the mosque. They say they were clearing, quote, "rioters" barricaded inside. They held up shields as fireworks and stones were thrown at them
after they entered the mosque.
Hundreds of people were arrested. Images you can see show some had their hands tied behind their backs as they lay face down on the floor. The
Palestinian Red Crescent says it treated at least 25 people for injuries.
The United Nations says secretary general Antonio Guterres is shocked and appalled by the violence and beatings inside a holy site during a time
meant, of course, for peaceful reflection. Hadas Gold is in Jerusalem with the very latest.
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HADAS GOLD, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The holy sites of the Old City of Jerusalem that you can see behind me are often the site of
tensions. And there were expectations that something could happen once again this Ramadan, especially as it once again overlaps with Passover.
But I think the events of overnight and the aggression seen from the Israeli police, that was at a new level, that was a bit unexpected.
GOLD (voice-over): Israeli police stormed the Al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem early Wednesday, where Palestinians worship during the holy month of
Ramadan.
Video put out by the Israeli police shows officers entering the mosque by force as fireworks are launched at them.
Videos on social media appear to show officers striking people with batons. Eyewitnesses telling CNN, police also fired stun grenades and rubber
bullets.
The police said in a statement that they went in because hundreds of what they called rioters and mosque desecraters barricaded themselves inside in
a violent manner and, quote, "threw fireworks, hurled stones and caused damage."
The authorities arrested more than 300 people during the incident. The Palestinian Red Crescent saying at least 2 dozen Palestinians were injured.
Israeli police say two of their officers were also wounded.
GOLD: The holy sites behind me are known as the Al-Aqsa mosque compound or Haram al Sharif, the third holiest site in Islam. You can actually hear the
call to prayer going on right now. But it's also known as Temple Mount to Jews and it's the holiest site in Judaism.
Now there is a status quo that governs these holy sites and the Israeli police entering the Al-Aqsa mosque, which is this building right here with
the black roof behind me. That is considered a violation of the status quo and then not only them entering but then them entering in the way they did,
firing stun grenades and rubber bullets, that brought it to a whole other level.
GOLD (voice-over): Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia have denounced Israel for what happened. The Jordanian foreign minister saying the world must
clearly condemn the attack.
Shortly after the raid, rockets were fired from Gaza into Israel. The militant group Hamas saying Israel's actions in Jerusalem wouldn't go
unanswered. The Israeli military said it had struck Hamas weapons sites in Gaza in response.
GOLD: Now, there are concerns, of course, that things will spiral even more out of control not only here in Jerusalem but of course, across the
occupied West Bank and in Gaza, where we already saw activity last night.
So there's a lot of fears that this could explode once again into something bigger, like what we saw happen in 2021.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: We will show you some pictures now coming into us from inside Al- Aqsa right now. Prayers as you can hear right now are continues. You can see. Of course, we've heard condemnation following what we saw in the last
24 hours.
The U.S., United States, calling for restraint as well as the escalation for the violence in Al-Aqsa mosque. Of course, will stay on top of this
story for you as soon as there any developments. Of course, we will bring it to you.
For the first time in U.S. history a former president has been criminally charged. Donald Trump pleaded not guilty on Tuesday to 34 felonies counts
stemming from alleged hush money payments. Trump had this to say about his historic indictment. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I have a Trump hating judge with a Trump hating wife and family.
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TRUMP: Whose daughter worked for Kamala Harris and now receives money from the Biden-Harris campaign. And a lot of it criminal is the district
attorney because he illegally leaked massive amounts of grand jury information for which he should be prosecuted. Or at a minimum he should
resign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Prosecutors have to make a case that Trump committed felonies and not misdemeanors. Senior legal analyst Elie Honig explained the charges
earlier with CNN's Poppy Harlow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So we saw the two key prosecution documents here: the indictment and the statement of facts. Now the indictment is the
formal charging instrument. It has very little detail but the statement of facts gives us 13 pages of narrative.
Now as you said, this crime is based on the payment of hush money. However, paying hush money itself is not a crime. The crime under New York state law
is falsifying business records.
The theory is they falsely categorized these payments as legal fees. There are 34 counts in the indictment based on that payment. If you're wondering,
how did they get to 34 --
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: The checks and the --
HONIG: Each individual check, each individual invoice, each individual ledger entry is charged as its own separate count.
Now to your question about what the crimes would be. If prosecutors can prove falsification of business records, that's a misdemeanor, which is not
much, as your expression is showing. Nobody goes to prison for a misdemeanor.
HARLOW: Never.
HONIG: It is the -- ever. It is the lower-level of crime.
However -- and here's the big catch -- if prosecutors can prove the plus factor, that they falsified business records in order to commit or conceal
another crime, then we're in the realm of a felony, it's called a Class E felony, which is the lowest level felony but way more serious than a
misdemeanor.
HARLOW: And could carry prison time. But isn't it right that prosecutors don't even have to prove the completion of that crime, just the intent to
commit that underlying crime?
HONIG: They have to prove that there was some plan in place, yes, to commit a second crime. And to that question, the indictment doesn't tell
us.
HARLOW: I don't understand that, Elie.
HONIG: Nor do I.
HARLOW: Why would you not?
You're talking about the former president and it's never happened in American history. Why on earth would you not lay everything out?
HONIG: I completely agree with you, especially knowing the kind of spotlight. But all the indictment tells us is some other crime.
However, if we sort of go through the statement of facts and look at what the D.A., Alvin Bragg, again, a former colleague of mine, said, they
identify three possible theories here. But all of them have problems.
First of all, federal campaign finance crimes, they said. But this is New York state court, so they're going to have a legal problem. Cy Vance, the
former DA, said it's never been charged this way. He said that on our air last night.
Alvin Bragg also said maybe it's a New York state campaign finance crime. But this is a presidential election. That's a federal election.
And then very quickly in passing, they mentioned possible tax crimes. But the Trump Org never claimed any of this as a deduction. So they've got some
real issues here. And look for the defense lawyers to go after that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Elie Honig, breaking it all down for us.
I want to bring in Kara Scannell, who has been following the hearing from New York.
So after the arraignment, we saw a little clip there. We saw president Trump pretty much go on the attack and he had quite a few targets.
What did he say?
And what has been the reaction to those comments?
KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, when the former president Trump left this arraignment yesterday, where he pleaded not guilty, he went
directly to the airport and back to Mar-a-Lago, his home in West Palm Beach.
And there, he gave a speech, where he was again attacking the district attorney Alvin Bragg as he played, saying that he was a criminal for making
-- for allegedly leaking some details about this indictment before it was unsealed.
They also went after the judge and the judge's family, saying that his daughter has worked for Kamala Harris, the vice president. Now this
followed the arraignment, where the judge was explicitly addressing these threats. Prosecutors had raised the commentary. Trump's social media posts.
They actually walked up pieces of paper printouts of the social media posts to the judge so he could see them. And saying that this was something they
were concerned about.
And the judge said he was going to issue -- he was issuing, then a warning to both the prosecution and to Trump's lawyers, telling the prosecutors,
contain your witnesses, like Trump's former fixer, Michael Cohen is a key witness in this case, who he is often on TV making comments.
Told the prosecution try to control those people. They also told Trump's lawyers to try to tamp down on any of this rhetoric that could be viewed as
inciting violence or projecting harm onto someone else.
Now we haven't heard anything from the DA's office since those comments last night One of Trump's attorneys was on TV this morning, downplaying. It
said that Trump was just laying out facts and that he wasn't attacking the judge or his family.
But I think we're not seeing the end of this yet because the district attorney's office was flagging this in court and suggesting that the judge
might have to take steps in the future.
The judge said he was not asked to do anything. Then he was not considering a gag order. And he said that considering that Trump is a candidate for
president that he had very strong First Amendment rights of free speech.
But we do -- I do anticipate that this could become an issue going forward. In this case, Isa.
SOARES: And, of course, I said, president, I meant former U.S. president. Thank you very much for correcting me there, Kara.
But just what do we expect to come next?
In this case?
Just lay it out for us.
SCANNELL: Yes, so now we're in the legal nuts and bolts of this case. And over the next two months, the prosecution will turn over what's known as
discovery. That will be the witness testimony of the witnesses that went before the grand jury.
It will be any documents that they accumulated in the course of their investigation. That's so Trump's team can prepare their defense.
[14:40:00]
SCANNELL: Now the judge has set some deadlines, he told Trump's team that they have until August 8th to submit motions and Trump's team has already
teed up that they do intend to file a number of motions, among them a motion to dismiss.
They're hoping to win this case before the judge, before it ever gets to the jury. But the district attorney's office has until September 19th to
respond to those motions and they're all back in court on December 4th, where the judge said he will rule on these motions and then likely also set
the trial date.
SOARES: Kara Scannell for us in New York. Thanks very much, Kara.
Well let's talk some more about this and what it really could mean heading into the 2024 presidential race. Joining us now is Republican strategist
Doug Heye, a former communications director for the Republican National Committee. A well known face on the show.
Doug, great to see you. So this indictment. I think it's fair to say from what I have seen. The comments has been vigorously opposed by Republicans.
Is this whole affair, though, playing into Trump's hands?
How does it -- how does his team spin this in your view, Doug?
DOUG HEYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well you have a short term and long term problem here for Trump. Or short term, it's good news for Trump. What
we've seen since the indictment has come, he's raised a lot of money. He's drawn more support in the Republican primary, in polling, than he
previously had.
Short term, good news for Donald Trump. But as we saw yesterday, we saw basically Donald Trump in his comfort zone, with the speech last night kind
of a recitation of the Donald Trump greatest hits. We've all become used to.
And then out of his comfort zone in the courtroom. And that says what the long term problem is for Donald Trump. As Carol (ph) was saying earlier,
you know, with this specific case, forget about other indictments, which is not insignificant.
We're going to be talking about this at least until September or December. And then potentially further there on as well. And so for Trump, if you
become the nominee, you have a problem that this does not help you with any independent voters. Any voters who voted for Donald Trump in 2016 but then
didn't vote for him for 2020.
This is not helping them come back to Donald Trump. And he has the other challenge of, will there be other indictments as well, which really could
serve to spur some Republicans, too, as they have supported him initially in this, to say, even though we think what happened to Donald Trump is
unfair, there's too much drama.
There's too much chaos surrounding him. We have to move forward.
SOARES: So do you -- do you think then, Doug, that he is in a better position politically, politically speaking today than he was on Monday. And
you're talking short time, a long term.
But right now, do you think is in a better position politically?
HEYE: For the immediate purposes today, you know, as of Wednesday, yes. But as we move not just in days but in weeks ahead, as we see machinations
from various Republicans and, significantly, various attorneys general, various district attorneys in Georgia, in Washington, D.C., that sort of
solid ground gets very shaky very quickly for him.
SOARES: And the next?
Of course in person hearing. We heard that from Kara Scannell, said, scheduled for December 4 for trial, perhaps may not happen until what
January or even spring 2024.
What would this mean for the primary and the other candidates?
HEYE: Well, it gives Republicans potentially, especially if there are other indictments that come in Georgia or in Washington, to say Donald
Trump just has too much chaos around him.
And it's sort of the argument that Rick -- that Ron DeSantis has tried to slyly make over the past few weeks without really going after Trump but to
say, hey, there's no chaos around me. We're moving forward on policies. We are doing the right thing here in Florida.
We don't -- and I don't know anything about paying off porn stars or all those other things that DeSantis has said. But we also get into -- as all
of this is unprecedented. If Donald Trump is at trial during the primaries, it's very hard to predict exactly what happens with Republican voters at
that point.
You know what struck me?
The fact that Republicans don't seem to be capitalizing on this, at least other Republican candidates. I mean, just yet.
Why not?
HEYE: One, I think there's a broad sense within the party and even with some Trump skeptics or people who have just flat out opposed Trump that
this is not really the indictment that would -- that would work against Trump.
And part of that is we've also seen -- when I started working in the House of Representatives, there was a president who had a sex scandal named Bill
Clinton. And his argument was even presidents have private lives. And all of this is sort of around the details around that.
Regardless of the bluster and the language and the venom that Donald Trump uses, that's a lot of that same argument. It was persuasive for Bill
Clinton. It's why he wasn't convicted by the United States Senate and removed from office.
This with this specific indictment may have that same thing, where regurgitating a lot of those things that we already know about Donald
Trump, even if they're not positive things themselves.
SOARES: Doug, always great to get your expertise and analysis. Thank you very much, Doug. Thank you.
And still to come tonight, Ukraine's president says there is no strength in the world that can split apart --
[14:45:00]
SOARES: -- his country's friendship with Poland. We will have more on our top story, his visit to Poland just ahead.
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SOARES: Welcome back, everyone.
As we mentioned the top of this hour, Volodymyr Zelenskyy is on his first official trip to Poland since Russia invaded Ukraine. Poland, Ukraine's
close ally as well as neighbor, has also become one of Ukraine's biggest champions in NATO, pushing the alliance to move faster, to offer military
support tanks as well as jets on this trip.
The country's leaders are focusing not just on the war, they are celebrating their unity and looking ahead to rebuilding Ukraine. I want to
talk more about the significance of this strip with Lukasz Jasina. He is a spokesperson for Poland's ministry of affairs, a well known face on the
show.
Lukasz, great to see you once again. Let's talk about this.
(CROSSTALK)
SOARES: Say that again. I didn't catch it.
LUKASZ JASINA, SPOKESPERSON, POLISH MINISTRY OF AFFAIRS: Great to see you again and nice for having me here.
SOARES: Very pleasure, a real pleasure. Look, I believe my team told me that you were involved in the preparations here. Talk to us, then, about
the symbolism of President Zelenskyy's visit here.
JASINA: Firstly, it wasn't very difficult to prepare this visit because we had some experience aboard. Zelenskyy was crossing Poland two times,
traveling to D.C., traveling to London, Paris, Brussels. And we've got a lot of experience with our Ukrainian friends because every Ukraine minister
was traveling somewhere through Poland.
But it wasn't easy and again we are very successful in hiding this information like we did with President Biden a few weeks ago. But we don't
feel so afraid of Russians anymore and we decided to communicate this two days before, to give Polish people possibility to travel toward when
participating two leaders speech.
It wasn't easy because Warsaw today was blocked much more than during Biden's, Obama's or Trump visits. But it was worth of it because there was
a symbolism. The first official visit of president Zelenskyy after start of the war.
And of course, first bilateral visit, which is very important to reopening of the Polish-Ukrainian relationship, which was sometimes very difficult
but now is on its eve (ph).
And we saw of course Poland heap military honors on president Zelenskyy with tributes and the praise, which really speaks to what your -- the point
you're making, a closer relationship between both countries. But let's talk about deliverables here. Talk to us about this new defense package that was
signed.
What does that involve exactly?
JASINA: It's 150 russomarks -- that Polish little tank (ph), which is a very good and too preferable by Ukrainian soldiers. That's rock (ph) which
is easy, light weapon. That's 100 of purons, the tenders (ph). That's the gun where you can shoot with your both hands and shooting Russian planes.
[14:50:00]
JASINA: That's what we are sending to Ukrainians now. And, of course, we are ready to fulfill our obligations to send them MiGs. Our president
declared a few weeks ago that will send them 14 MiGs; we already sent eight and we are ready to send another six. That's for now. And of course, more
talks to follow.
SOARES: And we heard President Duda say he's going to work. And these are his words here to obtain security guarantees for Ukraine. This at the
upcoming summit in Lithuania.
What are those security guarantees?
JASINA: Of course, it depends what will be the results of our president talks with President Biden and other leaders. But it will be, of course,
probably some defense of the Ukrainian sky. Some help in other instruments of war. We will see.
But we need more guarantees for the Ukrainian army and Ukrainian state from our Western leaders, who are sometimes forgetting that this war is still
going on.
SOARES: Are you, is Poland satisfied, satisfied with the alliance's delivery of weapons and ammunition?
Is it coming?
Quick enough?
Fast enough?
What is -- what is your take here?
JASINA: Nothing is coming fast enough and quick enough. But of course, I won't use the word unsatisfied. Everything could be quicker, could be more
guns for the Ukrainians. All those declarations given by our Western partners are not fulfilled fully, especially the Germans.
One but we are supporting them and we are doing what is our obligation that we're supporting them to send as soon as possible something to Ukraine
because we are never sure that Russia will not use this weakness of the Ukraine, this lack of gun against us.
SOARES: Yes, great to have you on the show. Thanks very much. Appreciate it.
And we'll be back after this short break.
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SOARES: A new photograph of Britain's King Charles and Camilla has been released alongside the official invitation for the upcoming coronation. It
refers to her as Queen Camilla for the first time, marking really a change from the queen consort title that she has been using.
The coronation service will take place at Westminster Abbey in London on May the 6th in front of 2,000 guests. Buckingham Palace also announced that
eight pages of honor have been chosen to attend the coronation, including King Charles' grandson and heir to the throne, Prince George.
[14:55:00]
SOARES: Now a new teaser trailer for the Barbie movie. If you haven't seen, it shows us that life in plastic really can be fantastic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES (voice-over): The new footage reveals glimpses into Barbie land right from the opening shots. You can see there, you saw Barbie's feet,
slipping out of her shoes but retaining their signature high arches. Remember that.
Well as Luxx Noir London, a former "RuPaul's Drag Race" contestant says, her taking her foot out of a heel only for it to still be in the Barbie
foot shape, that is cinema. Barbie is set to open in theaters in July. The movie will be released by Warner Brothers, which shares a parent company
with CNN.
And that does it for us for this hour. Thank you very much for your company. Do stay right here. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" with Richard Quest is
next. I shall see you tomorrow. Bye-bye.
END
