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Isa Soares Tonight

New Mission To OceanGate Sub Debris Site Underway; Analysts Cite Ukraine's Counteroffensive Has Been Slow; Starbucks Accused Of Restricting Pride Decorations; "Catastrophic Implosion" Kills All Five Men Aboard; Spain; Canary Islands; Pakistan's Interior Minister Says 350 Pakistani Nationals Were On Vessel That Sank Off Southern Greece Last Week; Right- Wing America Hits Back At Corporate LGBTQ Policies. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired June 23, 2023 - 14:00   ET



CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, HOST: Hello, and welcome to the show everyone, I'm Christina Macfarlane in for Isa Soares. Tonight, questions over the safety

standards of the sub that officials say imploded, as the ROV company confirms to CNN, a new mission is underway to the debris site. And a close

look at the Ukrainian counteroffensive, where we stand, and why some say it's slow-going.

Plus, Starbucks scrutinized. Employees accusing the mega brand of hypocrisy for restricting Pride decorations in some locations. How companies can

manage messaging in these highly polarized times. How authorities are now piecing together the Titan's final moments to understand what happened.

U.S. Coast Guard says the tour sub likely suffered a catastrophic implosion en route to the Titanic almost 4 kilometers below sea level in the North


In other words, the tremendous amount of pressure near the shipwreck likely caused a sudden inward collapse of the vessel. Investigators are now

searching for answers on the ocean floor. At least, five major pieces of debris have been found. But experts say it is unlikely the bodies of the

five men on board will ever be recovered.

The U.S. Navy now revealing that it detected a sound underwater consistent with an implosion on Sunday. That's the day the sub went missing, but at

the time, it was not definitive. Well, Paula Newton is standing by in Halifax, Nova Scotia, on Canada's Atlantic Coast. So, as I was saying

there, Paula, we know that the ROV has located five major pieces of debris.

Any indication how much longer this search is going to go on? And what hope there is that more parts may be recovered?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is highly significant. They're saying that they will likely be on the scene for about another week, and

that is consistent with the difficult task ahead. Now, they want to obviously be able to get that debris and lift it to the surface. But what

they are doing first is they are sending those remote-operated vehicles to the sea bed and mapping exactly what they believe exists in terms of debris

from the Titan.

Then, at that point, they will figure out how to move it to the surface. The company operating this says they just do not have the lift capacity on

those robots to be able to lift those pieces of debris to the surface. And that would involve yet another salvage operation. What's interesting here

is that they're already saying they've been told to stay on the scene for a week.

At issue, though, and I have to tell you, I've reached out to Canadian officials, they've been completely unresponsive, both the transport

ministry here and the Transportation Safety Board which runs independently of the government, have not responded to requests about whether or not they

have launched an investigation, and if they are the ones for this.

And it -- probably, Christina, reflects a bit of sensitivity about who would carry out this investigation, importantly, who would pay for it, and

exactly what is really an issue is the parameters of the investigation. Again, this was an unregulated submersible that happened to launch off the

coast of Canada, but also came from the United States.

Several different countries involved in now that it has moved from a search and rescue operation to a recovery and investigation. That is where

jurisdiction and of course, who is paying for all this will become an issue. Christina?

MACFARLANE: Yes, extremely complex, I imagine. And since the announcement, Paula, you were saying of the catastrophic event, we were saying that the

U.S. Navy have basically come out and said that they detected an implosion or an explosion soon after calms dropped on the Sunday after this

submersible went missing. I mean, that was a surprise to some. What more if anything that we've been learning on that?

NEWTON: You know, this is a secret program. And of course, in any way, shape or form, that they were able to actually hear this explosion, they

would obviously not disclose. That does not mean that they weren't able to disclose that to certain people in order to indicate we heard something

consistent with the timing from when the Titan lost communication with that mother ship.

At issue here though is that, how definitive could possibly have been? And for that reason, they needed to launch the robots as I say, international

mission to search -- for search and rescue.


I think what many people are asking themselves though is whether or not, the U.S. Navy could have been more transparent about, saying look, we heard

this explosion. We can't tell you how or why we heard it. But you need to keep that in mind even as we continue this search and rescue operation.

Many people asking those questions, and of course, first and foremost, Christina, are the families who you have to imagine were just in agonizing


And then lost hope that their loved ones were alive because for at least, two days, we heard consistently from those people who were putting the

sonar into the surface of the sea and were listening to banging noises, giving us and the families more importantly, a sliver of hope that their

loved ones might be alive.

Still, a lot of questions. I'm not sure how much of that will even come out in any investigation, especially as we are not getting answers as to who is

launching that investigation and why?

MACFARLANE: And as you say, though, Paula, this investigation now set to continue or at least, the recovery, for another week. Paula Newton there

live for us, thank you very much. Now, as he closes out his state visit to the U.S., Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and President Biden have been

meeting with top business executives.

Modi is seeking to position India as a manufacturing and diplomatic power house. And the two countries have announced new defense and technology

deals. Now, this is only the third state visit hosted by Mr. Biden as president. Both leaders are looking to counter China's growing influence.

Let's bring in Kevin Liptak who is standing by for us in Washington D.C.

And Kevin, yesterday, I think the big headline we heard from President Biden was him touting this as the defining relationship of the 21st

century, while at the same time taking criticism over hosting Modi at the White House due to his human rights record. So talk us through what

substance has come out of this meeting, and how it's been received in Washington.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: You know, this certainly did come out yesterday with a high number of agreements between the two countries

including in telecom. The U.S. says it's going to help bolster India's semiconductor industry. There were some major defense sales agreements,

including on drones to India.

But I think sort of taken as a whole, the takeaway from this visit is that President Biden really does want to cultivate India as a partner. And

certainly, Modi wants to become closer to the United States. And as you mentioned, this hasn't been an uncontroversial visit. Certainly plenty of

members of President Biden's own Democratic Party were very critical that he was rolling out the red carpet for a leader who has demonstrated some

autocratic tendencies and what has become backsliding of democracy in India.

There were certainly plenty of Democrats who boycotted Prime Minister Modi's speech to Congress yesterday. But I think in President Biden's mind,

there really is no major challenge confronting the world, whether it's China, whether it's A.I. which he was discussing today, or whether it's

Russia, that he cannot solve without India's buying.

Of course, it's the world's largest country. It is the most populous democracy. And in the end, President Biden's sort of autocracy versus

democracy structure can't necessarily always be applied. You know, he is realizing he will have to cultivate some of these countries that don't

necessarily share every single value with the United States.

And particularly, when it comes to China and when it comes to Russia, India has sort of positioned itself in the middle. It's sort of been aligned when

it comes to conflicts with those countries. And what President Biden, I think is doing is trying to pull India into the fold with the recognition

that he won't be able to achieve all of his objectives on the foreign stage, only working with countries who share all of his democratic values.

And so, I think as Prime Minister Modi departs Washington later today, you do see this very historic state visit concluding, and you see this

partnership between the two men really on full display. And it was so striking. I don't remember a previous state visit that has had, you know,

three full days of engagements between the leaders. So certainly, President Biden really looking to underscore the importance of this partnership going

forward. Christina.

MACFARLANE: Yes, a lot of engagements. A lot of pomp and ceremony as well. Kevin Liptak, thank you very much. Ukraine is pushing back on western

analysis that its long-awaited counteroffensive against Russia is not meeting expectations so far. A Ukrainian official tells CNN the operation

has not even begun in earnest, saying it's still way too early to assess whether it will succeed. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has more.


NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, how is Ukraine's counteroffensive going, well or badly? It depends really who

you talk to. But don't forget, we are in the opening weeks here of something that could take months. But be in no doubt where the focus of all

of this is.


And it's the south, Zaporizhzhia region, essentially, everyone agrees, whatever they think about the timing of this, that Ukraine wants to cut off

the Crimean Peninsula occupied by Russia since 2014 from the Donbas, a key part of Russia's goals here, and the Russian mainland, closer to it. To do

that, they have to push through this area here.

Now, it's been clear that the Ukrainians are making some progress towards Mariupol minor, and certainly it seems that some losses and cost here

through Russian defenses that are pretty extensive have been prepared for quite some time. And similarly, we're also hearing some Ukrainian progress,

roughly beneath the zet here, around a town called Orikhiv, trying to push south.

Now, we don't know the full picture, there are some Russian bloggers suggesting Ukraine might be seeing more or less success. But certainly, it

is slow. But at the same time too, we are also seeing to the east, Ukraine keeping up pressure around Bakhmut, deeply symbolic for Russia. They've --

many say wasted many lives trying to take it, holding the city center.

But Ukraine pushing around it, and also clashes to the north here too. So really, four separate places around Ukraine. Where we are, in fact, seeing

Ukraine pushing into Russian areas where we'll see the most success, we don't know at this stage. But it has been clear that Ukraine is keeping up

its targeted strikes on an ammo dump here on Sunday, and earlier on this week, the Chongar Bridge, down towards Crimea hit, it seems by a longer-

range missile.

Accusations this was supplied by the United Kingdom, suggesting it might be a Storm Shadow. A small-ish hole, yes, that's definitely going to disrupt

some traffic, and they've had to divert them elsewhere we're hearing. But it's part of a broader plan, it seems, of Ukraine hitting infrastructure

that's vital to Russian resupply across this area. Eventually, that will have a significant impact.

We just don't know when? But the timing of the recent blast out on Chongar suggests Ukraine might have an idea when they should best apply pressure.

So, bear in mind, this could take weeks or months. And essentially, Ukraine is pushing supply lines like it did in Kherson and Kharkiv last year, to

try and see Russia get under pressure, collapse, run out of ammunition or food or basic supplies for its troops, and we might see some kind of


It could take weeks. It could take months more. But that's essentially Ukraine's plan. They have many options around the country in multiple

different directions. Russia has only one option though, and that is to hope it can hold on, hold -- keep the Ukrainians back, and hope that Winter

perhaps comes in, allowing them to cement the positions they've managed to hang on to.


MACFARLANE: Nick Paton Walsh there. Well, Ukraine says it's undertaking the largest ever repair campaign to shore up its power system amid repeated

Russian attacks on infrastructure. We spoke earlier to the CEO of Ukraine's biggest private energy company, which has been contracted to rebuild the

energy network around Kyiv.


MAKSYM TIMCHENKO, CEO, OTEX: Our response to destructions and damage to all of Russia is creating, building new. So for us, being a major renewable

company in Ukraine, we make important decisions to start building new wind farms during the war. So this decision was taken in August, and we call it

a green energy counteroffensive.

So, we managed just in seven months time, to build 114 megawatts wind park, investing more in 200 million euro. And we're proud, we call it symbol of

resilience and symbol of our future. Future of Ukrainian energy sector, future of our country. So -- and this is what we've done as a first phase,

and here, a U.N. conference, we presented this project, we call the second phase.

Where we can build three times more capacity in very short period of time. Because all of the structure is ready. We demonstrated that we can do

during the war, and what we need is capital. And it's a 450 million project, and we hope that the result of discussions here in London, we can

start realization of the second stage --

MACFARLANE: And this project is, I believe you're saying, not just to the benefit of Ukraine, but to Europe as well because it's something you plan -

- energy you plan to provide beyond Ukraine?

TIMCHENKO: I think one of the important events happened last year is connection -- connecting Ukrainian power grid with European. So, today, we

-- basically, physically part of a European energy grid. So, and it opens a lot of -- a lot of opportunities for us to build more renewables with the

purpose of export of clean energy back to Europe.

MACFARLANE: Yes, what protections can you provide businesses or security guarantees can you give them, whilst asking for this investment, given the

war is still in action?


TIMCHENKO: I think that it's difficult to ask for investors and companies to come to Ukraine immediately. With the capital of equipment of the

construction. But it's time to do all preparation so that this project can be ready to build when the moment when -- for security reasons we can -- we

can do actually construction. So, land registration, wind measurement and all other preparation, it's time to do it now.

MACFARLANE: We saw earlier this month the devastating destruction of the Kakhovka Dam. It's something I believe detect, rely on for water supply to

some of your thermal power plants. How much has that impacted you?

TIMCHENKO: I think it's another red line crossed by Russians. So I would say that, it's humanitarian catastrophe. Talking about energy security and

our production, we operate Zaporizhzhia(ph) Thermal Power Station, which is located just next to Zaporizhzhia(ph) Nuclear Power Station. They both work

together and get water from the same reservoir.

And of course, we are affected by these catastrophe since both of these power stations are under occupation and not operational at the moment. It's

difficult to access all consequences at this moment. But we have to find a solution. So when it was occupied and bringing back, so that we bring these

two power stations back to operation.

MACFARLANE: How do you see this war progressing? Do you think that this is going to carry on in perpetuity? That, you know, Russia are not going to be

retreating anytime soon? That we could be in for a very long haul here. What is your feeling, your sense for more?

TIMCHENKO: You know, my feeling is confidence. That this war will be over with our victory. And this confidence is not just our dream. This is what

we do every day. And this war will be over when all these victories, which we have every day by doing counteroffensive, by restoring power supply.

Every fact, what we have during this time.

So, the critical mass of all these small and big victories which will come to end of this war.


MACFARLANE: Maksym Timchenko, thank you very much. All right, still to come tonight, as Beijing hits record-breaking highs for June, we'll look at

what the weather has ahead for China. And some Starbucks employees go on strike as the company finds itself caught in a coffee culture war.



MACFARLANE: Welcome back. Beijing has just had one of its hottest days ever, as parts of China bake under record heat wave. The capital hit 41

degrees on Thursday which is about 106 Fahrenheit. This comes after a year of record-breaking highs in many cities. Last Summer brought the worst heat

wave and drought in decades.

It is caused power shortages and disrupted food and supply chains. Well, joining me now to look at the situation in Beijing is CNN meteorologist

Chad Myers. And Chad, China is melting right now.


MACFARLANE: How much worse is this going to get?

MYERS: You know, I don't think we go higher than 41, but we're not going to get away from 40 for the next -- it seems like, I guess a couple of

weeks really. It will be up and down, 38, 39, 40, 41 back and forth. But that 41.1 on June 22nd was an all-time record, not just for the day. A lot

of times you'll see on TV all of the high today, the record for today.

This is any day of June for any year that they've been keeping track. And 50 other stations did the same thing. Some broke all-time records even for

July and August as well. So this is what we're expecting, 5 to 10 degrees above average for the next week or so. Yes, up and down a little, but it's

still going to be very hot. And when we start to get this front in here, that's when we're going to start to cool down.

The warm moist air gets all the way to the north and sets up here, we start to see some clouds. The clouds will stop some of the sun, but that's not

going to happen until July. I mean, it's almost like a Monsoon for India, right? It's the same kind of idea. But the cold air kind of gets trapped up

there, and then it starts baking through the Summer time.

And then finally, this rain that's going to be down here right now where it's supposed to be, won't get up towards Beijing for a long time.

Shanghai, very heavy rainfall coming, probably 250 millimeters of rainfall. Look at this, this is some state here in India. This is what they're

dealing with too. The Monsoon did make it here, and that's quite obvious.

Monsoon predictions right through here, and that's where the green line is, that's where the Monsoon right now, the wind is. It should be much farther

inland, that's going to keep New Delhi very hot, because we're not going to see the showers that we expect. Ninety percent of the annual rain comes

from Monsoon. So they expect this. They do expect flooding as well.

And a lot of the agriculture is all Monsoon related. But you don't want to flood the fields because then all of a sudden, you don't have crops. You

don't have anything to grow or to feed your livestock. And it has been a very wet couple of days there. Finally, cooling down, finally slowing down

some of the rainfall, but it is going to be still a very warm day.

On average, we're 1.2 degrees sea above normal, that's 7 percent more humidity, relative humidity in the air. And that 41 probably felt warmer

than that with the humidity there in Beijing. Christina?

MACFARLANE: And another couple of weeks at least as you say --

MYERS: Yes --

MACFARLANE: To come there. It's not a great picture. Chad, thank you.

MYERS: You're welcome.

MACFARLANE: All right, still to come tonight, what can we learn from this tragedy involving the Titan submersible. It was able to take on tourists

even though it wasn't certified. We will discuss that next. Plus, a CNN investigation takes a closer look at what might have caused the migrant

boat disaster off Greece last week. Those findings coming up.



MACFARLANE: Welcome. As the probe into what caused the Titan submersible disaster goes on, Titanic Director and deep sea explorer James Cameron is

giving his insights. He spoke to CNN's Anderson Cooper about one of the subs glaring flaws.


JAMES CAMERON, FILMMAKER & DEEP SEA EXPLORER: It's completely inappropriate for a vessel that sees external pressure. You know, carbon

fiber composites are used very successfully for internal pressure, pressure vessels like let's say a scuba tank, and you can get two or three times

multiple of what you can get out of steel or aluminum for that type of pressure bottle.

But for something that's seeing external pressure, all of the advantages of composite materials go away, and all the disadvantages come into play.


MACFARLANE: Well, the editor-in-chief of "Travel Weekly" whose own OceanGate Expedition was also canceled, expressed concerns about the

material used to build the Titan's sub.


ARNIE WEISSMANN, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, TRAVEL WEEKLY: And where he got the carbon fiber from Boeing, and he said this was material that had originally

been planned for aircraft-use for building airplanes. But that, it had passed a date that it could be used for that. And so, his implication was

they had stuff they wanted to get rid of, but it was past itself by date.

So that gave me pause because I was at that point still -- I was on the Polar Prince. I was still hoping to dive. This was in May. And so, when I

asked him about it, I said, isn't that a concern? He said listen, you know, we have partnered with NASA. We've partnered with Boeing on this. We've

pressured -- we put it in a pressure tank, we've done deep dives.

And he said, initially, when it was in the pressure tank, there were all sorts of noises that were sort of just pinged in and made noises. But that

those noises stopped after a couple of times in the testing. You know, and it did give me pause.


MACFARLANE: Well, the sub was operating in international waters which are unregulated for the most part. Sal Mercogliano is an Associate Professor of

History at Campbell University and adjunct professor at the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy. Sal joins me now. And Sal, I don't know if you were

listening to those accounts there. But they are alarming given the evidence that have unfolded.

And obviously, there's understandable focus now on the safety aspects. What do you think about the numerous concerns that we've now heard about safety,

and the claims that OceanGate had taken a fairly experimental approach to this submersible?


industry has been a very safe industry. I mean, you go back to the '60s and there has never been a failure of a submersible, which has resulted in

death in its history. And obviously, the new technology and the revolutionary design of this submersible.

Remember, most submersibles are large spherical objects built out of one material, steel or titanium. In this case, it was actually two separate

materials, it was titanium caps and then carbon fiber kind of a center tube. And as you noted, this submersible operated in international waters,

which are largely outside of national regulations. And therefore, he was able to operate this submersible without an outside classification society.

MACFARLANE: So what aspects of this submersible would have been required had it been signed off by a regulatory body? What was it missing?

MERCOGLIANO: Well, this is the problem that they had is that the CEO refused to have it inspected by a regulatory body, by a classification

society, because it would have taken time. He basically made the argument that his technology was so far advanced from where they were, it would take

years for them to study, to test, for him to be able to put this into service, and argued that his safety was much higher than that of the

regulatory body.

MACFARLANE: We have learned that OceanGate positioned, I think, safety sensors in the hole of the craft, and that the passengers may have had a

warning that something had gone wrong. I wanted to ask you about those sensors, I mean, is that a genuine safety device? What would have been the

purpose of putting them there?

MERCOGLIANO: Being part of a classification society would have required this submersible to undergo a rigorous inspection schedule, including

measuring the depth of the hole, the width, any sort of abnormalities that's could have happened to the hall, going down repeatedly to the

bottom, the massive pressure changes, and mashes -- massive temperature changes.

Everyone in the submersible industry is very leery of just basically determining the safety and integrity of a submersible by internal sensors,

you have to do external measurements. And most importantly, you want a separate set of eyes to see something that maybe you're missing.

MACFARLANE: So we know there's obviously a lot of heat now on Ocean ate, and we have had a response from the co-founder in the last couple of hours,

he's been responding to some of this criticism. I just want to play our viewers this clip, have a listen.


GUILLERMO SOHNLEIN, CO-FOUNDER, OCEANGATE: Safety was always number one priority for us. And for Stockton in particular, he was a very strong risk

manager. And I believe that he believed that every innovation that he created, whether technologically or within the dive operations, was to both

expand the capability of humanity, exploring the oceans while also improving the safety of those doing it. And I kind of wish we would hold

off judgment and just see exactly what the data comes back with.


MACFARLANE: And we will hopefully see what the data comes back with. We know that these passengers were asked to sign a waiver form. And to your

point about the lack of regulation, so how much do you think OceanGate are going to be liable here? Is it very dependent on what is found as the

recovery effort goes on for these parts?

MERCOGLIANO: Well, I think OceanGate is going to be really exposed to this because one of the reasons you classify vessels, particularly international

vessels, vessels that sail on the high seas, is for insurance purposes. Insurance wants to have that second set of eyes. So, I have questions

regarding who ensured OceanGate for this expedition, because it seems as if that they have a huge liability.

I would also argue that Horizon Maritime, the operator of the parent ship from which they launched and recovered from, would also have liability from

this. And I think one of the things you're going to see very quickly, is Canada enacting some rules and regulations regarding the launch and

recovery of submersibles from their ships and from their ports.

MACFARLANE: So many questions still obviously unanswered, and we await to see what will come out of this recovery mission, which we know is

continuing now for a week to try and find debris. But, Sal, we really appreciate your thoughts. Thank you for coming on, giving us your time.


MACFARLANE: Now dozens of people are feared drowned after a migrant boat sank near Spain's Canary Islands on Wednesday. Authorities have recovered

two bodies so far, including that of a 5-year-old girl. The boat departed from Morocco.

Well, this latest migrant boat tragedy comes as we're learning new details about the disaster of Greece last week where hundreds of people were

thought to have drowned. Pakistan now says at least 350 of its nationals were on board. The official death toll from Greek authorities still stands

at just 82.

Jomana Karadsheh has been investigating what might have happened in the hours ahead of this tragedy. She joins me now. Jomana, still very serious

questions to be asked of the role the Greek authorities played in all of this, and I know that's something you've been looking into. What have you


JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Christina, I mean, we know that the Mediterranean is one of the deadliest or the deadliest route for

migrants and refugees in the world. And it feels that every year, we're reporting on yet another tragedy at sea. But from the early hours, it

appeared that there was more to this incident than just another deadly shipwreck. And over the past week, we have been looking into this.


We have been speaking with survivors we've, collected testimony as well from families of survivors and victims, as well as activists and we've

combined that with open source and marine traffic data and it all raises very serious questions about what happened and cast doubts on the official

Greek version of events.


KARADSHEH (voice-over): The desperate, exhausting week for the promise of a new life in Europe, these Pakistanis crammed into a small room by smugglers

in Libya, some of them believed to be among the hundreds presumed dead, these last images before they embarked on their ill-fated journey. About

750 refugees and migrants were packed into this fishing vessel bound for Italy before it capsized off the coast of Greece. Only 104 survived, and

with them, the harrowing accounts of what they'd been through.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I can still hear the voice of a woman calling out for help. You would swim and move the floating bodies out

of your way.

KARADSHEH (voice-over): The Syrian survivor spoke to us from Greece. He asked for his identity to be concealed for security reasons. His another

accounts obtained by CNN not only contradict the official Greek version of events, but point to fault on the part of the Greek Coast Guard.

KARADSHEH: Greek authorities who watched and were communication with the boat for an entire day insist that it was not in distress and refused

assistance. Our investigation tells a very different story.

KARADSHEH (voice-over): Just before 1:00 p.m. on June 13th, the boat was first spotted by the E.U.'s Border Patrol agency Frontex, which says it

notified Greek authorities of a "heavily overcrowded fishing vessel." Those on board were in distress, lost at sea with no food or water for days,

according to survivors and activists in touch with the boat throughout the day. At about 7:00 p.m., an activist in Italy recorded one of the calls

capturing the horror on board.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (text): Can I notify the coast guard that six people died?

KARADSHEH (voice-over): As activists repeatedly relayed calls for rescue to authorities, two merchant vessels approached the boat instructed by the

Greek Coast Guard to provide the boat with food and water. But as darkness fell at 10:40 p.m., a Greek Coast Guard vessel moves in, now the only ship

on the scene. Three hours later, the haunting last words from the boat to the activist group alarm phone, "Hello, my friend, the ship you send is --

" and the line cuts out. What happened next is likely to raise more questions as the investigations continue. Survivors tell us it was a

botched attempt by the Greek Coast Guard to tow their boat that caused it to capsize.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They decided to throw us a rope. So, the guys at the front tied it. They towed us. The boat tilted to the

right and everyone was screaming. People began falling into the sea and the boat capsized. People couldn't get out from under the boat.

KARADSHEH (voice-over): The Greek Coast Guard have declined our request for an interview, but in previous comments, they've denied towing the troller

saying, "When the boat capsized, we were not even next to it. How could we be towing it?" Instead, they blamed a "shift in weight, probably caused by


For years, Greek authorities have been accused of systematically and violently pushing back migrants and refugees. A video like this one

released by the Turkish Government captured the now well-documented practice Greece denies. This deadly incident is not just about what they

may have done, it's also about what they didn't do.

VINCENT COCHETEL, UNHCR SPECIAL ENVOY FOR THE CENTRAL MEDITERRANEAN: It was clear it wasn't sea-worthy, it was clear that it is part of a trafficking

movement from Libya to Europe. So, the authorities have the responsibility to intervene to save life.

KARADSHEH (voice-over): As Fortress Europe hardens its immigration policies to deter some of the world's most vulnerable, this disaster will almost

certainly not be the last.


KARADSHEH (on camera): And Christina over the past few years, we have been reporting on these pushbacks that are taking place by European countries,

more and more countries becoming less welcoming of refugees and migrants. But these tactics, these pushbacks have done very little to deter these

people who are so desperate to begin a new life in Europe. And what is really worrying right now, according to a top U.N. official and NGOs that

we've spoken to is this -- these new patterns that are emerging.

Smugglers and traffickers are trying to get around these pushback tactics, trying to get around these restrictions and policies that have been put in

place by European countries. So you've got new routes. Deadlier, more dangerous, longer journeys going -- leaving from eastern Libya. A 600

percent increase in boats leaving eastern Libya so far this year.

And you've also got accusations against Greece and other coastal countries that not only are they pushing these boats back towards Libya and into

international waters, that they are also facilitating the movement of these boats towards Italy, providing them with food, water and fuel and putting

that burden on Italy alone. And the concern right now, of course, is that we are going to be seeing more and more of these tragic and catastrophic


MACFARLANE: Yes, the lack of care and policy as well around migrants giving the sheer numbers, as you're saying, is particularly worrying, isn't it?

That' great reporting, Jomana. Thank you.

Well, former U.S. President Barack Obama noted that more attention is being paid to the Titanic submersible than the migrant boat tragedy. He spoke

exclusively with CNN's Christiane Amanpour while in Greece.


BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: But right now, we have 24-hour coverage. And I understand it of this submarine, the submersible that

tragically is, right now, lost at the bottom of the sea. At the same time, right here in -- just off the coast of Greece, we had 700 people dead, 700

migrants who were apparently being smuggled into here, and, yes, we -- it's made news, but it's not dominating in the same way. And in some ways, it's

indicative of the degree to which people's life chances have grown so disparately. It's very hard to sustain a democracy when you have such

massive concentrations of wealth.


MACFARLANE: Well, now to something totally different, thousands of Starbucks workers in the U.S. are on strike today. They are angry because

they say the company is allowing some stores to restrict declarations that celebrate the LGBTQ community during Pride Month. The strikes come from

about 150 Starbucks stores that are unionized. But Starbucks says it doesn't know of any stores that have taken down Pride decorations and

points out that it has always been a strong supporter of LGBTQ rights. Starbucks says it leaves decorating decisions up to local managers.

Well, the Starbucks strike is the latest development in a difficult tap dance many U.S. companies are facing. On the one hand, they want to support

the LGBTQ community. But on the other, they face a backlash from some conservatives who say Pride displays are offensive.

Well, let's bring in CNN's Richard Quest to talk a little bit more about this because Richard, it does feel that companies can't win here. Are we

reaching the point where some American companies are going to cater to liberals and other are for conservatives only?

RICHARD QUEST, BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: It's a really good point and you put it elegantly. What does one do? You want to remain true to your values

and that is what the experts will tell you you need to do. But at the same time, you risk offending. The problem is it's become polarized. So whilst

in -- for example in the Bud Light example, where Bud Light was with -- sponsored a transgender person to do various Instagram posts, and then

there was the most massive backlash from conservatives in America that really cost Bud Light quite dear in the market.

And then you've got the Disney Don't -- opposition to the Don't Say Gay law in Florida. Now, what do you do? In the old days, of course, it was all a

bit of tolerance, and everybody sort of met in the middle. However, that's now gone out the window. With such extremism, arguably on both sides,

you're now getting to the point that if you are not with me, you are against me, and if you are against me, therefore every battle, commercial,

every bit of blockade, the boycott you can use is valid.

MACFARLANE: Yes, and you mentioned that Bud Light advertisement. I mean, we know a couple of months ago, they partnered with a trans influencer. And

just yesterday, they came out with a completely different advert to try and counter that damage that you mentioned. Let's just show our viewers a clip

from that.

I mean, I don't know about you, Richard, but this -- watching this just feels very fickle to me. I mean, how much are companies risking

reputational damage with this sort of thing?

QUEST: No, no, no. No, no, no. Hang on a second, you say it's fickle, but the company is trying to do the impossible. It's trying to please everyone

at the same time in an environment. Look, if you do a nice wholesome American family advert.


Everybody around the kitchen table, then the left are going to say, well, that's not today's American family, today's American families, same sex

couples, adopted children, et cetera, et cetera. If you then do a same sex advert, you see, in the old days, or in the more recent past, what you did

is you targeted your adverts. So, it's Gay Pride, or LGBT Pride weekend here in New York, this weekend, by the way, you're most welcome, the entire

city is going to be a mass of rainbow flags of different descriptions for the various LGBTQ community. Now, they'll get away with it. But when you

start to move it into elsewhere, then you start to get into the culture walls.

MACFARLANE: Yes, but not every city is the same. We know this throughout the United States that -- and this goes back to the point of Starbucks,

they're being accused here of hypocrisy, because they act one way in one part of the country and a different way in a more conservative part of the

country. So really, as much --

QUEST: So, what's your right answer there? What is the right answer there?

MACFARLANE: There is no right answer.

QUEST: Exactly.


QUEST: Well, the answer is a bit of give and take on both sides, which is exactly what's not happening in the United States at the moment. Everybody

wants to go to the wall, over the cliff, push it to the nth degree. And the Starbucks is a good example. Because here you have a company that thought

it was playing well, we'll let people in the south do what they think is right for their community, and they get into trouble.

I think it is a really good example, the Starbucks one, of just how difficult this is because Starbucks by far, you know, when you start

criticizing Starbucks, then you really are in a sort of difficult area. Because if you're criticizing what Starbucks does on these issues, then

you've got hell to pay with all the others.

MACFARLANE: Yes. And I'm just glad we are not advising Starbucks CEO on what to do on this matter. It does seem impossible. Richard --

QUEST: Oh, no. I'm pleased that you're wearing a suitably lavender pink color for Pride weekend in New York.

MACFARLANE: Of course. I always represent, Richard, you know. I love the LGBTQ community. Look, thank you, Richard. It's been great to have this


All right. Still to come tonight, a big win for the Biden administration in a Supreme Court ruling. We'll have details from Washington DC next.


MACFARLANE: Now just days after hundreds of hours Israeli settlers went on a rampage in the West Bank attacking Palestinian towns, Israel's national

security minister visited a new illegal outpost, encouraging the expansion of settlements and telling settlers we have your backs. Run to the hills.

Itamar Ben-Gvir said Israel should launch a wide-scale military operation in the West Bank, saying hundreds, or even thousands of "terrorists must be

killed." And one Palestinian was killed in this week's rampage. Dozens of homes and cars were burned.

An Israeli army spokesperson said the IDF failed to prevent the violence in the hours after Palestinian gunmen killed four Israeli settlers.


He said the incident pushes a population not involved in terror towards extremism.

Now a win for the Biden administration today in the Supreme Court in an 8-1 ruling. The court rejected a challenge to the administration's guidelines

on deportation. It's a major victory for President Biden and the White House who argued the need to prioritize who they detain or deport.

Well, CNN's Supreme Court Reporter Ariane de Vogue joins me now live from Washington, DC. So Ariane, just walk us through what this really means for

the guidelines on deportation and how much the Biden administration needed this win.

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN U.S. SUPREME COURT REPORTER: You're absolutely right, this was a big win for the Biden administration. They revived these

guidelines and the guidelines prioritize who the Biden administration, which citizens it wants to report, and what happened -- or deport, and what

happened with this case is the Attorney Generals for two conservative Republican states, Louisiana and Texas, they said that the guidelines that

President Biden had put forward, which were frozen by the courts, they basically violated federal law.

These states, of course, wanted Biden administration to deport more people. And what the Supreme Court said today, it dismissed these challenges on

this basis, it said that these states didn't have the legal right, and we call it standing to bring this in the first place. They said when it comes

to enforcement priorities, really the federal government here has discretion, and that there's no role for the courts to play and to get

involved with a matter like this.

Justice Samuel Alito, he was the only one to dissent from this ruling, and Justice Brett Kavanaugh, he wrote for the majority and he basically said

five administrations have always had these kinds of priorities. And the reason they have them, of course, is there are just not the funds to deport

all the millions of people who are here in the country illegally. Reminder, in 2021, this is what the guidelines said, it said that they were going to

prioritize those people who were a threat to national security, to public safety and to border security. It's just the latest salvo in this fight

between the Biden administration and Republican-led states. And today, at the Supreme Court, it's the Biden administration in this dispute that


MACFARLANE: Ariane de Vogue breaking it down for us. Ariane, thank you very much. Stay with us. We'll be right back after this quick break.


MACFARLANE: A famous dress worn by Carrie Fisher in Star Wars: A New Hope is hitting the auction block. The iconic gown can be seen at the end of the

Sci-Fi classic here when Princess Leia gives Han and Luke metals but snubs Chewbacca. It was thought the dress had been lost. But after a decade's

long search, it was found in a London attic. Prop House Auction says the dress has been meticulously restored. The Auction House initially thought

dress would get $1 million, but the estimates are now up to $2.5 million and that was in a London attic. Can you believe?

All right. Thanks so much for watching tonight. Stay with CNN. We've got Quest coming up again after the break with "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS."