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Isa Soares Tonight

U.S. President Joe Biden Says A Hostage Deal Is Nearing As Desperate Families Demand Answers From Israeli Leadership About Their Relatives Being Held By Hamas; Neonatal Babies Arrive In Egypt From Gaza; Far-Right Javier Milei Wins Argentina's Presidency; Sources: Negotiators Nearing Deal For Gaza Hostages; Biden: "I Believe" Deal To Release Hostages Is Close; Far- Right Outsider Milei Wins Argentine Presidency. 2-3p ET

Aired November 20, 2023 - 14:00   ET



JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: A very warm welcome to the show everyone, I'm Julia Chatterley in for Isa Soares. Tonight, U.S. President

Joe Biden says a hostage deal is nearing as desperate families demand answers from Israeli leadership about their relatives being held by Hamas.

The very latest on this developing story.

Also ahead, premature babies in Gaza's Al-Shifa Hospital are finally evacuated and arrive in Egypt. I'll speak to one of the aid groups that

made this unbelievable mission happen. And he once wielded a chainsaw at campaign events, but now Javier Milei is Argentina's president. We'll look

at how he's planning to execute bold plans for the economy.

And tonight, U.S. President Joe Biden signals a deal to get the remaining hostages out of Gaza could be close. He was asked repeatedly at an event

today marking the Thanksgiving Holiday later this week.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, is a hostage deal near? Sir, is a hostage deal near? Mr. President, is a hostage deal near?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I believe so. I'm not prepared to talk --




CHATTERLEY: Here are some of those hostages part of the ongoing flash point in Israel's war against Hamas. The Al-Shifa Hospital, this video shows what

the IDF claims is Hamas militants leading hostages into the hospital. Now, just to be clear, CNN cannot independently verify the contents of the

video, but it's part of a wider case the IDF is now making to a global audience after sending troops in to raid the hospital last week.

Israel says that Hamas has long operated a command center from the compound, something Hamas and hospital officials deny. The IDF has been

releasing evidence to support that claim over the past week, including the video of what it says is a newly exposed tunnel shaft at the complex.

Though, even that information doesn't definitively prove the larger accusation that Hamas has been operating from within the hospital grounds.

Meanwhile, more than two dozen premature newborns who were being treated at that same hospital have now crossed the border into Egypt. The hope is that

their lives can now be saved by more stable treatment outside of the war zone. As Eleni Giokos reports.


ELENI GIOKOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Wheeled to safety as they make their way from chaos to calm, finally in Egypt. A race against time to

get them out, but a delicate process to move them. The journey to bring them here, long and arduous. Cries for help from the war's tiniest victims,

their first stop, the Al Hilal Al Emirati Hospital in Rafah.

Twenty eight babies made the grueling journey from Gaza, their condition, doctors say, delicate and difficult.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We're conducting tests on all of those babies, and they were giving fluids, and needed medication according

to their condition. For now, they are in a difficult, stable condition, but this condition might deteriorate.

GIOKOS: Now the W.H.O. says many of them are in critical condition, and all are fighting infections. They have endured life-threatening ordeals trapped

inside Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza city as the war raged around the hospital complex last week. Al-Shifa ran out of oxygen, clean water and fuel. Moved

by hand, and laid on these beds, no incubators and placed next to hot water bottles to stay warm.

Doctors say five of the babies didn't make it, conditions too harsh for such vulnerable patients. But ultimately, it was the war in and around Al-

Shifa that made their evacuation complex and dangerous. The Egyptians waiting for over a week at the border disappointed day after day, knowing

that every minute counted.


But the decision out of their hands to get these babies to safety. For this father, after weeks of living in fear, after being separated with his son,

finally reunited.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Thank God we now feel that our son is safe after not seeing him for more than two weeks. We didn't know

whether he was dead or alive.

GIOKOS: Only four mothers and six nurses accompanied the 28 babies. Lubna Asek(ph) describes her nightmare.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): During the siege, there was no milk. Her condition worsened. She went back to zero, and she relied solely

on artificial oxygen.

GIOKOS: As for the others, it is unknown where their parents and family are, or if they're still alive. Now, in the hands of the Egyptians, their

lives still fragile, their future forever defined by this war. Eleni Giokos, CNN, Cairo.


CHATTERLEY: And Dr. Richard Peeperkorn was part of the mission to transfer those children to Egypt. He's representative for the World Health

Organization in the West Bank and Gaza. Dr. Peeperkorn, fantastic to have you on the show with us. What an incredible feat by all of those involved

on both sides of the border. Just tell me what the feeling is, is it relief? There's obviously still a lot of work to be done to save these


RICHARD PEEPERKORN, REPRESENTATIVE, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: Yes, it's an incredible relief, and I just want to say that it was really well planned,

and really proud of my team. It was actually two missions of W.H.O. that together with joint U.N., and yesterday, of course, in great collaboration

with the Palestinian Red Crescent Society.

So, the first mission on Saturday was to make this assessment, and we, the team, the team on the ground met the exhausted health workers and scared

patients, which asked for this evacuation. So plans were immediately made for the 31 babies to be transferred which happened yesterday, again, in

coordination -- collaboration with the Palestinian Red Crescent.

It was of course, sad to see from the 30 -- because there were 33, and two died actually in the night from Saturday, on Sunday. So we were able to get

them to a Al Hilal and Emirati Hospital in the southern Gaza, where they were very well received. And some of those -- many of the babies were in

serious conditions, infections due to lack of medical supplies and in possibility actually to continue infection control measures in Al-Shifa.

Today, I think it's great that 28 of them have been transferred to Egypt, so three remained in Gaza where the families, the families wanted to

attempt to staying in Gaza, but they are well treated as well.

CHATTERLEY: Wow, I mean, as you said, sadly five were lost through this process. Actually incredible, perhaps given the situation that some of them

were in that you didn't lose more. When did you last get an update on the health of the 28 that did manage to get to Egypt? That just -- I'm sure our

viewers will be wondering how they're doing.

PEEPERKORN: Yes, we got the information also from the Egyptian, our Egyptian colleagues and what we understand they're doing well. We -- I want

to stress, of course, we are deeply concerned about the safety and health of these patients and health workers who remained at Al-Shifa including

Indonesian and also the partly functional Al-Ahli Hospital.

So, we are planning now because there remain over 220 patients actually and 20 health workers, which have requested to be evacuated by W.H.O. and its

partners. So, we are planning this. We also have been requested by Al-Ahli Hospital and Indonesian Hospital by the health workers there to -- well, to

get them evacuated and specifically, of course, first, critical patients.

So, currently, we are making the plans and to prioritize patients, and over the next days, we hope to -- and we plan to evacuate them all, the health

workers and patients. Of course, we need -- we need a safe passage for that, and we are discussing that with all parties to the conflict. I want

to make also a point, because you know, I got this question already this morning.

Like -- so W.H.O., why W.H.O. doing this. W.H.O. is normally not in the business of evacuating patients and staff. We do this on the request of

staff and the patients. W.H.O. is in the business of actually strengthening hospitals -- strengthen the hospital staff, making sure supplies are there,

training health workers, et cetera, helping to ensure that, that's -- so it's a very sad day that we are here to do this, but it's absolutely



What is even more needed that we get an orderly medical evacuation into Egypt for all patients in need. So, currently, we are working with the

hospitals, the functional hospitals in the southern part of Gaza. And the few in the north to make sure that we get a list of the most prioritize

patients, and of course, it's patients with multiple traumas, spinal injury, burns, et cetera.

But you also think about before this war actually started, on average between 50 to100 patients were referred --


PEEPERKORN: From Gaza through Jerusalem and the West Bank. Patients with cancer, cancer patients, et cetera. So we need to set up a sustained and

orderly transfer into Egypt.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and we hear everything you say, and to your point as well, the unusual role that you've played in this situation in particular. Just

for balance, I do -- and would if you wouldn't mind, I'd like to mention the babies and the children, the hostages that are also in Gaza, and we

don't know really what condition they're in or where they are.

While the World Health Organization is involved in that too, I just wanted to ask you if you've heard anything about the status of those individuals

too? And I'm sure you'd like to echo calls from around the world for their release as well on behalf of the World Health Organization.

PEEPERKORN: Yes, I definitely want to echo that, and I think the W.H.O. has been very clear the demand for an unconditional release of those hostages.

I mean, and of course we're very concerned, and no, we didn't hear anything about that.

CHATTERLEY: Right, thank you, sir. I just wanted to get your perspective on that --

PEEPERKORN: Maybe -- can I add one more point?

CHATTERLEY: Of course.

PEEPERKORN: Yes, OK, what is -- what we -- what we also just think of, we should think about the future, of course, and we are very concerned about

the health infrastructure, which is now in -- you know, still operational in the southern part of Gaza which needs to remain operational. So, we have

an operational response plan, which are focusing to make sure that health service literally, that this restores the referral pathways, primary and a

secondary level.

I think not only trauma, but think emergency obstetrics care, primary health care, mental health, non communicable diseases. We get -- we need to

get a medevac going, we need to get emergency medical team in to -- you link to those referrals at home to make sure that we can extend that

capacity, which is now as low as 1,400.

And we need -- we need 300,000 to start with. And then we also need to extend with a few strategically-located field hospitals, because it needs a

sustained supply of goods, essential medical supplies, and we're very concerned about the possible of outbreaks, and we need to -- on outbreak

response and --

CHATTERLEY: Absolutely -- no, you're absolutely right, so it's not just about the period during the war, it's also conversations that need to be

had about what happens next too. Your points heard and vital. Sir, thank you for now, Dr. Peeperkorn there in the World Health Organization. OK, now

to a report by Oren Liebermann who entered Gaza with the Israeli military to see what the IDF say is a tunnel shaft near the Al-Shifa Hospital within

the compound -- just to be clear.

He reported from Gaza under IDF escort at all times, and it's a condition for journalists to join this embed. Media outlets had to submit what was

filmed to the Israeli military for review. CNN retained editorial control over the final report.


OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We go in under cover of darkness, and as we cross the border fence, it's lights out across

the Gaza Strip. Escorted by a tank, we switch into an armored personnel carrier for the final stretch. Even through a night vision screen, you can

see the magnitude of the destruction on the streets of Gaza city.

We off-load at the Al-Shifa Hospital, pick our way along even synastry, or what's left of it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pete(ph), watch your feet, let's go.

LIEBERMANN: We had to keep our lights off most of the time or risk exposing our position. CNN reported from Gaza under Israel Defense Forces escort at

all times. As the condition for journalists to join this embed with the IDF, media outlets must submit footage filmed in Gaza to the Israeli

military censors for review. Now with the hospital compound, we wait inside a structure to make sure the area is secure before moving the short

distance to the exposed tunnel shaft.

(on camera): And here is the entrance, you can see what looks like a ladder access into it, and as I step over here, it's very difficult to see how far

down it goes. But it looks like there's almost a central shaft for a staircase, and then the shaft of it disappears then down into the darkness.


(voice-over): We move around the opening for a better look at the shaft itself. What's clear from here is, this is meant to go deep underground.

(on camera): Which direction does the tunnel go?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We assume that the tunnel goes out, and it has another corridor to this way.

LIEBERMANN: Towards the hospital?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Towards the hospital. Meaning, it connects the hospital to outside. Which implies with the way that Hamas is working, Hamas is

going out somewhere, shooting at our forces, and going back inside to a safe place.

LIEBERMANN (voice-over): We weren't allowed to enter the shaft, but the Israeli military sent special gear down to see where this leads. Inside,

the video shows a spiral staircase, and as the camera orients itself, it moves forward into a tunnel. The tunnel makes a sharp left turn, and at the

end of another path with concrete walls and an arch concrete top, a metal door they say they have not yet opened because they fear it's booby


IDF spokesman Admiral Daniel Hagari says some of the Israeli hostages taken on October 7th were also brought through the hospital. He says the body of

Noa Marciano was discovered 50 meters from the compound.

DANIEL HAGARI, SPOKESMAN, IDF: We have evidence that they were holding hostages in Rantisi, but also we have evidence that they were bringing them

to Shifa Hospital. We're still looking for the places they might have held them.

LIEBERMANN: This is not proof of a Hamas command center or headquarters underneath the hospital, but Israel continues trying to build its case that

Hamas uses the sanctuary at the hospital for cover, which Hamas and hospital officials have denied.


The IDF's ability to continue its operation in Gaza and the credibility of Israel are at stake here as the number killed in the fighting surpasses

12,000, according to the Hamas-run Ministry of Health. The IDF says one of its mission is to destroy Hamas, but with international criticism mounting,

Israel has to show the terror organization is using Gaza civilians and infrastructure as cover to justify an ongoing war. Oren Liebermann, CNN, in



CHATTERLEY: And just to be clear, hospital and Hamas officials deny Israel's claim about Al-Shifa. Let's get to Jeremy Diamond now who joins us

from Sderot, Israel. Jeremy, good to have you with us. It's more evidence, it seems, and it's difficult for CNN, of course, to independently verify

much of what we're seeing, including video evidence of what appeared to be two hostages in the Al-Shifa Hospital that the IDF released on Sunday this


We're still waiting definitive proof and that's the key of some kind of command center. But as we heard in that report, progress is slow as they go

through these tunnels because they're afraid of booby traps and the like.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, and we've been told that it could take days or even weeks perhaps, for the Israeli

military to actually be able to prove out the full extent of its claims, that Hamas operates a large command and control center below the Al-Shifa

medical complex.

And of course, that is also a claim backed up by the United States and its intelligence services as well. What this evidence, this video evidence does

show is at least -- and CNN hasn't been able to confirm that this tunnel is indeed within the medical complex as you saw Oren at the site.

We've been able to geolocate the video of what appears to be a drone going into that tunnel before it reaches that longer -- going into the shaft

rather before it reaches the tunnel. And when you see the video from inside the tunnel, what you see is very typical of a Hamas tunnel. That kind of

curved shape of the ceiling inside the tunnel, and then you reach a door, which Israeli officials say they have yet to open, because it may be booby


So, this is certainly the most extensive evidence that the Israelis have provided so far to backup their claim that there is some kind of a tunnel -

- Hamas tunnel infrastructure below Al-Shifa Hospital, but it is not yet proof of the farthest extent of the claims made by the Israeli military.

CHATTERLEY: Jeremy Diamond for now. Thank you. OK, still to come tonight, the U.S. Defense Secretary makes a surprise visit to Kyiv amid questions

about additional American aid to Ukraine. Plus, drama in Silicon Valley as OpenAI employees threaten to quit after the company's CEO is ousted. The

latest, next.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back. The United States has announced a new $100 million security assistance package for Ukraine. U.S. Defense Secretary

Lloyd Austin made the announcement during a surprise visit to Kyiv to meet with the Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. He told the president,

"the United States of America is with you", quote, and the world is impressed with the grip, quote, "shown by the Ukrainian people."

The trip comes as an additional U.S. aid for Ukraine stalls in Congress. Anna Coren is in Kyiv for us now. Anna, an important show of support at a

moment when President Zelenskyy himself is acknowledging international fatigue not only how tired Ukrainians and some of themselves are of war.

ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Julia, this is incredibly important. The timing of this visit by Lloyd Austin -- you know, Ukrainians

have been feeling incredibly neglected. Obviously, the world has been focused on the Middle East, and this story has fallen from the headlines,

but the war continues, the fighting has not stopped.

If anything, it's far more difficult now. We're entering, you know, into the 21st month of this war which has become a war of attrition,

essentially, a stalemate. And that's what General Zaluzhnyi, Ukraine's commander-in-chief told the economists some weeks ago that they need

advanced weaponry to make those in-roads.

This counteroffensive that has been going on for the past four months just has not yielded the results or that beautiful breakthrough that they had

hoped for. So Lloyd Austin, coming today, it reaffirms America's support. And as you say, he said the U.S. is with you and we will remain for the

long haul, and that what happens here matters to the world.

You mentioned that assistance package of $100 million, really, it's a drop in the ocean when you consider what Ukraine needs. A long laundry list of

weapons, ammunition, you know, air defense systems, drones, and obviously that was a conversation that was had today. But that is all tied up with

that U.S. funding bill that President Biden is trying to push through Congress.

There are heavy -- very strong headwinds, as we know. The GOP heavily- divided on their support, continuing their support for Ukraine. But the reality is, Julia, Ukraine needs it. It's as simple as that. And without

it, they cannot stay in this fight.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, U.S. Congress tired of the billions, but this is at least something in the interim. Anna Coren, thank you. Now, it's been a dramatic

day at the artificial intelligence leader, OpenAI following a dramatic weekend. Quite frankly, this is the makers of course of ChatGPT. Now, more

than 500 employees are calling for the resignation of the board, and they're threatening to quit themselves.

This after CEO and Cofounder Sam Altman was fired on Friday, only to be taken on by its biggest financial backer, Microsoft, on Monday.


OpenAI's board said they lost confidence in Altman, but offered few details as to why, and now OpenAI staffers are demanding that Altman get hired

back, and that the board members themselves are ousted. Their letter to the board says in part, quote, "your actions have made it obvious that you are

incapable of overseeing OpenAI, and we are unable to work for or with people that lack competence, judgment, and care for our mission and


Anna Stewart joins us now for more on the drama in Silicon Valley. Never mind the artificial intelligence, this is real stupidity that I can see

taking place before our eyes. And now we've got mutiny, just talk us through it, and what do you make of it?

ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I prefer to really as an omni-shambles at this stage --


STEWART: The series of miscalculations and blunders. And I think the letter that we saw from 500-plus employees really says it all. There is a mutiny

underway, and you have to wonder what's going to happen at the end of all this? So Friday, they fired Sam Altman, this is the board. They fired Sam

Altman, he was the co-founder and really the biggest voice in A.I., not just in OpenAI, but actually really in the sector.

He's probably the most vocal spokesperson for the sector in terms of regulation and everything else. Now, why they fired him is up for debate,

really, because we don't have much detail from the board themselves. But the weekend involved really just so much controversy, particularly from

investors like Microsoft who didn't like the idea that this was not communicated with them.

They want to see Sam Altman leading OpenAI, but by the end of the weekend, that didn't seem to be happening. So, this morning, we found out that Sam

Altman and his cofounder Greg Brockman, who resigned on Friday in all of this, had both been hired by Microsoft, the biggest backer of OpenAI.

And we sort of thought that maybe that would draw a line under it. A new CEO, the third CEO in three days was appointed today as well, Emmett Shear

from Twitch. And yet, that is not the end of it, because according to this letter, 500-plus employees of a company that only has around 700 to 800,

could be resigning if Sam Altman doesn't go back.

CHATTERLEY: It's a coup, really, in a way for Microsoft. Because clearly, they don't want him going to the competition, so they have no choice, let's

be clear. They have to bring them inside because they don't want Sam Altman and crew going somewhere else. But I mean, what -- Facebook bought

Instagram for $1 billion, Google bought YouTube for $1.7 billion, Microsoft could eventually acquire OpenAI for absolutely nothing, but their

paychecks, which I'm sure Sam Altman -- one assume quite big.

But let's just talk about this very clearly, because I do think it's about something far bigger than OpenAI. It's about the future of artificial

intelligence, the speed of progression in how this is researched and given out to the general public. And it doesn't look like there's some kind of

ideological battle going on between the board and perhaps the leadership of OpenAI as well.

Where do we think this ends? Because it's going to be far more scrutiny of OpenAI and Microsoft than there were when it was a private company. And

this is important.

STEWART: This is a really interesting point, and I think a lot of the speculation is that, at the heart of this ouster of the CEO is frankly the

debate that has been raging on about A.I. How do you monetize and commercialize it, and if you do that and develop it too quickly, do you

then pose huge risks in terms of safety?

Does regulation need to catch up with AI before it is pushed out to the world and monetize, and perhaps, this was the reason Sam Altman was pushed

out, because he's very much trying to find ways to monetize all of the products, including of course, getting billions of dollars from Microsoft

in all sorts of multi-year partnerships.

So that's at the heart of this debate, and what happens next, I think will be really interesting. We're seeing a splintering at the top. A handful of

A.I. companies control this space, control the debate, and are at the forefront, really, of all sorts of regulatory talks with politicians, with

regulators around the world. And now we're seeing a splintering.

So do we see OpenAI slightly being consumed by Microsoft? An acquisition that might never be allowed to be -- take place. No IP for sure, but the

talent going in there, and what does that mean? I suspect there would be more regulation on Microsoft, but we'll have to wait and see.

CHATTERLEY: Yes, and Microsoft is trading at record highs now, what's the probability that we end up reversing a week, and everything just goes back

to as it was? We'll see, one -- to both of course. All right, we have to leave it there, I could keep talking about this for an hour. Thank you.

OK, still to come, crossing his fingers, yes, President Joe Biden says he believes a deal is near to release some of the hostages in Gaza. Details

from the White House ahead. Plus, far-right political outsider Javier Milei will be Argentina's next president. We'll have all the reaction to his

shock victory, next.



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back. Sources tell CNN that a possible deal to secure the release of some of the hostages being held by Hamas may just be days

away. They say a recent draft of a possible deal proposes a four to five- day pause in fighting in exchange for the initial release of some 50 hostages in Gaza. It's believed that more than 200 people captured during

the October 7th attack on Israel is still being held.

U.S. President Joe Biden just spoke about the hostages during a Thanksgiving related event at the White House. He crossed his fingers and

said he "believes" a deal is close. Arlette Saenz is at the White House with more.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Julia, the White House has expressed cautious optimism that they could be getting closer to securing

the release of some hostages from Hamas. The Principal Deputy National Security Adviser Jon Finer said that the negotiators are closer than ever

in reaching a deal.

Though officials do caution that there have been many fits and starts in these negotiations and that there are still a number of details that need

to be hammered out before any release occurs. Now according to a draft proposal that's been circulated, there could be a four to five-day pause in

fighting in exchange for the release of about 50 hostages. That is according to sources familiar with the talks. Nothing has been agreed to

until everything's agreed to, is what the White House has said.

But there are still a number of details that need to be fine-tuned when it comes to the number of hostages released and also the implementation of

this deal. Now Israel publicly has called for the release of all hostages, but one source says Israel has provided a list of about a hundred hostages

that they would like to see freed. Hamas, on the other hand, has indicated that they would be closer to releasing 50 hostages in exchange for that

multi-day pause.

There's also questions about how to funnel the aid into Gaza.


Debate over how many trucks of aid to go in, how to inspect these trucks, as well as how to ensure that this aid is going to civilians and not to the

Hamas fighters. But the White House is stressing that they are working around the clock including with the cutters who have the really stressing

that they are working around the clock, including with the Qataris who have really been the main mediator between Israel and Hamas and trying to secure

the release of these hostages.

But over the weekend, the White House has been saying that they believe they are inching closer and closer to that deal, while cautioning that

there are still a number of details that need to be ironed out, Julia.

CHATTERLEY: Thanks to you, Arlette Saenz there. And coming up on the show, we're going to talk to an unofficial hostage negotiator just to get a sense

of where we perhaps are and what else might need to be negotiated and whether the cautious optimism that we're hearing is justified.

For now, Japan is condemning the hijacking of a ship in the Red Sea and is seeking outside help to secure the release of the vessel and 25 crew

members. It happened on Sunday while the ship was headed south of Yemen. This video shot by Houthi rebels from Yemen shows the moments they stormed

the ship named the Galaxy Leader. It's a cargo ship operated by the Japanese company, NYK Line.

Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary said the country is working with Israel and has requested help from Saudi Arabia, Oman and Iran to intervene with the

rebels. Israeli media outlets say that an Israeli businessman is part owner of the British company that owns the ship.

And still to come tonight, Argentina's new president-elect is making some bold and big promises. But can he save the country's battered economy?

We'll explore his plans next.


CHATTERLEY: Welcome back. And let's get straight to Jerusalem and to Gershon Baskin who is an unofficial Israeli negotiator that helped secure

the 2011 release of an Israeli soldier who'd been kidnapped by Hamas.

Gershon, welcome to the show. Can I start by asking if you could share the cautious optimism that we're hearing from the United States and the Qataris

at this moment? One has to assume it's a very different prospect negotiating with Qataris -- sorry, with Hamas, individuals that are sitting

in Qatar versus those that are holding hostages in Gaza.

GERSHON BASKIN, UNOFFICIAL ISRAELI NEGOTIATOR: I want to be really cautious about being optimistic because the families of the hostages are on a

rollercoaster of emotions. It's been six weeks now and every day, they hear of a possible new agreement.


And in the end, it turns out to be just noise in the background and I think that's really have to -- we have to relate to everything that we're hearing

about the negotiations. When there's a deal, there'll be a deal. It will be brought to the Israeli government. There will be a discussion in the

government and a vote. And we will all know for sure if there's a deal or not.

In the meantime, everything that's said, I think does not help any of us to understand the real situation. The people negotiating in Qatar are very

detached from the reality underground in Gaza. The people who will make the decision ultimately on the release of hostages, or the Hamas leadership and

military command in Gaza, underneath the communication between them in Doha is very difficult, very problematic, if existing at all. And I fear that

the Hamas leaders in Doha sitting in luxury suites have the luxury to speak on behalf of people that they have no control over.

CHATTERLEY: Gershon, this is such an important point, because every time we talk about communication blackouts in Gaza, one has to presume that a

similar challenge is happening for negotiators outside of Gaza to those Hamas individuals inside. So I do think that's a vital point. Why leak

possible good news before you have it? Why then, to your point, about how painful this is, for the hostage families do we keep hearing even the U.S.

president himself when asked weighing in on this and raising expectations and hope?

BASKIN: Well, I think that everyone has their own interest and own reason why they're leaking. Yesterday, we heard from the Qatari Prime Minister,

who's the head of the negotiations on behalf of Qatar release, the information about the negotiations. It could be that he wanted to put

pressure on the Israeli government. It could be that he wanted to deflect pressure from the United States. When President Biden releases information,

I think he's just trying to assure the Israeli public and the people who are pro-Israel in the United States that the United States is doing

everything in his power to secure a release of the hostages.

I'm not sure how much influence the United States actually has over Qatar or Hamas, when the United States is not willing to call out Qatar as a

state that supports terrorism, which it is, but U.S. has interest in Qatar, like a huge army base there. So, it's very difficult.

And all these third players have their own set of interest in their own ways of working. I think we need to look a lot closer at the Egyptian

track. The Egyptian intelligence has a much more direct line to Gaza, they sit next to Gaza. They communicate with Hamas, they communicate with the

Islamic Jihad, as well. They're involved in these negotiations. A lot of attention is on Qatar, but there's more than just Qatar going on here.

CHATTERLEY: Another vital point. So, when you start to hear the Egyptians, perhaps making more positive noises then, there's a reason to pay

attention. Is there something positive though that the hostage families can glean from this and that how valuable these hostages remain and that these

negotiations wouldn't be taking place? One has to presume if the Israeli officials didn't believe that they were still alive that Hamas didn't

believe that they had something to negotiate over, particularly giving the fact in this role and understood.

BASKIN: Yes. It's very difficult to figure out what it is, yes, it is similar, the leader of Hamas in Gaza really wants. He has to know that at

the end of this war, he will probably not be alive. So, one would ask why is he negotiating? Sinwar has promised since the day that he was released

from prison in the fleet exchange in 2011 that he would vacate the Israeli prisons from Palestinian prisoners. He would bring them all home. This is

his holy mission in his life as long as he lives to secure the release of those prisoners. And that's why it's important to him.

The Israelis have all kinds of working assumptions of what Sinwar wants. Some people think he just wants to survive. That's not what I think. But

it's all guesswork. We don't really know.

CHATTERLEY: Gershon, if this were you negotiating in that room, and as you've said, there's lots of parties to negotiate with, and ones that we

don't hear from, what angle, what position would you be taking that you believe actually would be most pivotal given your experience of actually

having success in negotiating with Hamas, particularly at this moment in the midst of a war?

BASKIN: Right. I think the most important thing, from the Israeli point of view, is to get as many people home as quickly as possible. Every day that

they're in captivity in Gaza, risk their lives both with the bombs falling on Gaza, and the erratic behavior of Hamas. They could simply execute

people. We think they have already done that with some of the hostages. So, I think it's really not important to hold a strong negotiation with Hamas

if they want three days, four days or five days of ceasefire, if they want to increase the number of humanitarian aid going into Gaza or even fuel if

they want to release prisoners.

The war will continue after the hostage deal is done.


Israel is not going to end the war and Israel is committed to making sure that Hamas never rules Gaza again and threatens Israel. So, I think that

the most important thing, the most urgent thing is to get the women and children, the elderly, the sick and the wounded out as soon as possible, as

much of them as possible and given to Hamas' demands because it doesn't really matter the day after the hostages are out. The war continues and

Israel would complete its mission.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. Time is of the essence, I think is your conclusion.

BASKIN: For sure.

CHATTERLEY: Yes. Gershon, great to get you on the show and get you with me. Thank you. Gershon Baskin there, unofficial Israeli negotiator. Thank you.

Now, Argentines have made their choice for president and it's clear they're hoping for drastic change. Really almost all the votes counted, far-right

Libertarian, Javier Milei, has become the country's new president-elect. It will now remain to be seen whether the eccentric political outsider with

make good on his radical campaign promises among some of the most controversial, eliminating the Central Bank and scrapping the country's

currency in favor of the U.S. dollar.

Milei argues these measures will help tackle inflation which is at a staggering 142 percent. It's probably a lot higher, one of the certainly in

the world. His campaign has drawn comparisons to that to former U.S. President Donald Trump, who's already congratulated Milei on his victory.

I want to bring in Stefano Pozzebon who's following all this from Bogota. Stefano, given what the people are going through, the poverty, the triple

digit inflation, it's understandable why they'd want radical change. But dollarization, which we have seen from smaller countries in the region,

let's be clear, is an option to introduce some degree of stabilization because you effectively use U.S. policy. So, when their rates go up,

effectively, Argentina's rates will go up and down and vice versa. But it doesn't automatically mean growth, and it doesn't automatically control

government spending either. This is the key surely.

STEFANO POZZEBON, JOURNALIST: Yes, Julia. And it's interesting that in the last few weeks leading up to these run-off yesterday between Javier Milei

and Sergio Massa, in the last few weeks, there were different economic think-tanks and publications taking stand. For example, both The Financial

Times and The Economist taking -- writing in op eds that they are -- that they were suggesting against dollarizing Argentina, while in the United

States, the Cato Institute of the free market, suggesting that dollarization will indeed help Argentina and that is right now the only

chance for Argentina to try to defeat these eternal scourge that this country is always dealing with, which is hyperinflation.

It's not the first time we are in this place in Argentina. It's however, the most serious economic crisis the country is facing in the last 20

years. It's interesting, I was saying, how all of that theoretical debates will now be pretty much be put into practice because even today, Javier

Milei, in the first declaration to Argentinean media, he spoke with two radios in Buenos Aires early on Monday. He said that he intends to follow

through with his plans of privatizations, cuts to the public sector.

For example, he mentioned the public broadcaster as a public entity that could be spun-off and sent to private investors. And of course, he's

evaluating whether, indeed, to follow up with a -- follow through with his promises to shut down the central bank and completely dollarize the


He has, however, stopped short of naming his preferred choice for the place -- of the posting of finance minister. Milei himself is an economist by

trade. He advised one of the Argentinean's richest corporations and private corporations before entering a career as a TV pundit and then entering

politics only two years ago. But just as you said, exactly, we're in for a bumpy ride down in Buenos Aires if -- anything of his style as a candidate

will translate in his style as a precedent.

Just before you let me go, one note about how he intends to rule on the international geopolitical stage, in particular, today, Milei has announced

that he intends to travel to the United States, ahead of his inauguration, meet with the organization of the American states and may be meeting with

representatives of the IMF in Washington, DC, but he also intends to travel to Israel just before getting inaugurated on December 10. Milei, in his

career, in his political career, has always professed himself as a close ally of Israel and a close ally of the government of Benjamin Netanyahu.

One of his campaign pledges were -- was to transfer the embassy from Argentina from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.


So, you can clearly already see a decisive swing towards conservativism towards the right wing, in -- where Argentina now stand on the world stage,


CHATTERLEY: Yes. I mean, Argentina is such a beautiful country to visit and the IMF should know because I believe they've been there 22 times since

1958. Fingers crossed that he gets this under control and yes, they not do there again for now. Stefano, thank you.

POZZEBON: Yes. And just before we --

CHATTERLEY: No, we -- I have to stop you. I'm so naughty. Yes, I'm taking too much time. We'll reconvene. Thank you.

OK. Still to come tonight, new urgency in one town in Iceland as residents prepare for a volcanic eruption. We'll have the latest on those



CHATTERLEY: Welcome back to new urgency in Iceland as residents in one town prepare for a potential volcanic eruption. Officials are worried about the

structural toll an eruption could cause along with what could happen to a nearby power plant. Here's Frederik Pleitgen with the details.


FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Nature's brute force punching through the ground, cracking roads and houses here in Grindavik,

Southern Iceland ahead of what could be a massive volcanic eruption threatening the entire town. Residents are on the run, like Paul Petersson

who evacuated his wife and three small children.

PLEITGEN: You had to leave quickly or -- yes.


PLEITGEN: What was that like?

PETERSSON: Yes, I don't know. It was horrible.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Iceland is in what's called a hotspot where magma often breaks through the Earth's crust which can result in massive

eruptions. And what happens here can affect large parts of the globe.

In 2010, ash spewed into the atmosphere by a volcano here brought transatlantic air travel to a virtual standstill for weeks. Iceland's

government says this time around, the effects could also be devastating with both Grindavik and a geothermal power plant nearby which provides

energy to Iceland's main international airport in the possible path of lava.

PLEITGEN: The authorities here are highly concerned about the town of Grindavik and, of course, have been evacuated a few days ago, but also

about the geothermal power plant here in this area and they are working 24/7 to try and dig a trench to redirect the lava if it comes to the


PLEITGEN (voice-over): Government experts here acknowledge they are not certain the trench would prevent lava from damaging the power plant.


The main problem isn't even the size of the possible eruption. But the fact that it's so close to urban areas, geophysicist Magnus Tumi Gudmundsson

from the University of Iceland tells me.

MAGNUS TUMI GUDMUNDSSON, GEOPHYSICIST, UNIVERSITY OF ICELAND: it's so close to the town of Grindavik and the power plant. And that is the main concern

that it could damage one or both of these facilities.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Because the eruption could happen any time, Grindavik residents can only return for a few minutes on some days to

retrieve personal items from their homes.

PLEITGEN: Are you hopeful about the situation that maybe the town will be spared if the big eruption happens?

ELIZABETH OLAFSDOTTIR, GRINDAVIK RESIDENT: Regarding our house, no, not really. Because the lava tunnel is laying very close to our house. So I --

we are expecting to lose everything if it will erupt.


CHATTERLEY: Now red wine has been around for thousands of years and we still can't explain why it's so common to get a headache even after one

glass. Some say it's because of sulfites or histamines, but researchers in the United States have a new theory, an oxidant called quercetin. It's a

compound red grapes produce when they're exposed to sunshine, like for example, in California's Napa Valley.

Now the researchers argue that expensive wines could be worse for people who tend to have headaches, since they have much more of it. But still, the

team still needs to test this out. So, don't go to get rid of your good bottles just yet. I'm already slurring my words. Who needs researchers for

this? Cheap wine or red. We'll see. Stay with CNN. More to come.