Return to Transcripts main page
Isa Soares Tonight
Police in Czech Republic Say At Least 15 People Have Been Killed In Prague University Shooting; Hamas Says No Talks On Prisoner Swaps Until Israel Stops Attacks; NASA Space Telescope Captures Christmas Tree Cluster; Prague University Shooting: 15 People Killed; Israel-Hamas War; Nearly Two Thirds Of Palestinians Believe That Hamas's October 7 Attack The "Correct" Way, According To Poll; U.S. Intelligence: Hamas's Influence Growing In Region; Interview With University Of Maryland Anwar Sadat: Professor For Peace And Development And Brookings Institution Senior Fellow Shibley Telhami; 2024 U.S. Presidential Race; Trump Legal Cases Set To Reach U.S. Supreme Court; Landmark Ruling On European Football Super League; Strike Ends, Eurostar Services Will Restart; Economic Changes In Argentina. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired December 21, 2023 - 14:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICHARD QUEST, HOST: Hello, and a warm welcome, I'm Richard Quest in for Isa Soares. Tonight, we are tracking breaking news out of the Czech
Republic where a mass shooting has caused at least 15 people and injured dozens of others.
Authorities say the 24-year-old shooter is dead and this is not an act of terrorism. The attack took place at Prague's historic Charles University
where the gunman was apparently a student. The police say they were tipped off that the gunman may be traveling to Prague to take his own life.
They evacuated the building as a precaution, they then received a call about a shooting at a different location. Now, the pictures are quite
distressing. Students locked themselves in the classrooms if they could end this dramatic image shows clinging to the ledge of a building, trying to
hide from the attacker to save their own lives.
Security forces quickly swarmed the area around the campus as the attack unfolded. Mass readings are common in places like the U.S., however, of
course, this is extremely unusual in somewhere like the Czech Republic, and the president says he is shocked. Melissa Bell is monitoring the breaking
story for us. Melissa, not terrorism in the sense of organized terrorism. What do we believe it is?
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is, as you say, so exceedingly rare in Europe that all our thoughts turned exactly, immediately there,
Richard, to some link to international terrorism, whether by inspiration or by organization. In fact, we've just been hearing from the Czech leader in
a speech to the nation, clearly very shocked about what has happened.
That there was no link to that, giving thoughts, of course, and condolences to the families who had Christmas will find themselves without their loved
ones. It is a tragically high death toll already. At least, 15 dead and many of those wounded critically so. So, that could yet rise.
What we understand happened is that this young man, a 24-year-old Czech man who had been a philosophy student at the Charles University in the
heart of Prague, had been planning to take his own life. That tip-off from the police, as you say, allowed them to clear one building, and it is in
fact, a different one that he struck, not in the building where he was due to have his 2:00 p.m. philosophy lecture.
They also found the body of his father, who he had apparently killed in his village a couple of hours from Prague before heading to Prague University
to carry on with --
QUEST: Right --
BELL: His rampage. We don't know anything about his motives, we do know that he was a firearms owner and had several in his possession, Richard.
QUEST: Melissa, grateful, thank you with the latest details. Now, our senior producer Ivana Kottosova is on the line, she is near Prague and
joins me now. Can you hear me, Ivana?
IVANA KOTTASOVA, CNN PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, I can, hello, hello, Richard --
QUEST: Hi, well, I mean, the shock level must be extraordinary at what's been happening. Give us some thoughts of -- from where you are.
KOTTASOVA: It is absolutely shocking and the nation is stunned, Richard. This is the deadliest incident of this kind ever in peace time history of
this country. We've never seen anything like this. Which also means that there are no protocols in universities and schools. This is not like in the
United States where every student would know what to do when something like this is happening.
And we are hearing from the students in the building that the initial information, no one could quite believe what was happening. Such unusual
situation with this. So there is a huge shock, all of the top officials in the country had canceled their programs, they're coming straight to Prague.
The prime minister had already addressed the nation, and I think this shock will last many days to come.
QUEST: It's the sheer number. I mean, 15 before anybody was able to do anything about it. But no links to organized terrorism, at least, at the
KOTTASOVA: No link to organized terrorism. Indeed, the police chief told people that they believe this was indeed a lone shooter that did not have
any connection to any kind of terror group.
He is believed to have killed his father before traveling to Prague, and then acted on his own. So, at this point, the police is advising people
that there is no immediate risk, that he did not have any other people involved with him in this shooting, and it really does seem like he was
just a lone shooter.
QUEST: Tell me about the university, what do we know about this university other than the fact that it is one of the leading education institutions?
KOTTASOVA: So, this is a very old university, was founded in 1348. The building itself is at the very heart of Prague. So, if you are ever on
holiday in Prague, this is a place that you would visit as a tourist. So --
QUEST: Right --
KOTTASOVA: That also means that there were crowds of people around, the place is very crowded, especially now before Christmas. Prague is a very
popular destination among tourists before Christmas. So, at the moment, there is just a shock. It is very unusual to see the city center deserted
as it is right now. And yes, everybody is just stunned.
QUEST: Ivana, we'll talk more as more information becomes clear. But I'm grateful to have you near the scene, thank you. Today is the 21st of
December, four days for many in the world, of course, celebrate Christmas. And yet, absolutely no sign of any political solution to the deadly war
between Israel and Hamas.
Hostage negotiations are simply deadlocked. Israel says it wants to broker another deal to release more hostages from Gaza. Hamas are saying, no
negotiations will go ahead without -- in their words, full cessation of aggression. And the fighting grinds on. Civilians continue to pay the heavy
price. Israel's military operations in Gaza is now said to have killed approximately 20,000 people.
That's according to the Palestinian Health Ministry, and most of those people, women and children. And when it comes to hopes of a truce or indeed
a diplomatic solution, it's a standstill. The U.N. Security Council vote on a resolution in Gaza has been delayed several times. Negotiations are
Jerusalem correspondent Jeremy Diamond is with me from Tel Aviv. It feels - - I mean, the way we've written it tonight, you know, everywhere I am going, from New York through here to London and onwards, everywhere is
slowly starting to shut down and get ready for Christmas, and shops closing, festive atmosphere.
But from what I'm hearing, there's absolutely no shift in positions in Israel and Hamas that would suggest some sort of Christmas truce.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there actually was some movement in recent days, Richard. But we did not actually get -- you know, there was
some movement in terms of the CIA director, the head of the Mossad, all meetings with the Qatari Foreign -- Prime Minister in recent days.
And there was a sense that perhaps things would be moving in the right direction. But unfortunately, today, Hamas putting out a statement saying
that they would effectively stick with their position that they have had for several weeks now, which is to say that they will not engage in
negotiations until there is a ceasefire by Israel.
Effectively saying that they will not negotiate while fighting is still happening in Gaza. That is, of course, antithetical to the position of
Israel, which has said that it is willing to offer a week-long pause in the fighting, but only if there is an exchange of hostages, only if there is a
And so, that puts the two parties in a very different position. There -- effectively, there was a lot of hope in recent days, especially in the wake
of the killing of those three hostages. But there was a lot of pressure on the Israeli government. And the Israeli government does seem to have moved.
The issue now, apparently, is that Hamas is not moving. And so, for now, this is at a deadlock --
QUEST: Right --
DIAMOND: And the results, of course, Richard, as you know, is that civilians in Gaza are continuing to suffer as a result, and those hundred-
plus hostages who are being held in Gaza at this moment have no hope of getting out.
QUEST: Jeremy, I was much taken this morning in my morning reading, to read the transcript of one of -- the mother of one of the hostages who was
killed last week by Israeli fire. And it's very telling what she says, perhaps, I'll leave it to you to tell the story.
DIAMOND: Yes, and it comes, Richard, as we are learning more about not only the deaths of these three hostages, but also the circumstances that
led up to it. Apparently, there was a fire-fight between Israeli soldiers and Hamas fighters who were holding these hostages captive days before they
were actually shot and killed by Israeli soldiers, indicating that they were, you know, free from their Hamas captors inside Gaza for about five
days before they were actually shot and killed.
And this video that was captured by a go-pro mounted on a military canine dog was only uncovered two days ago. And on it, you can actually hear the
voices of the hostages. And amid this revelation, the mother of one of those hostages is actually recording a voice-note to the soldiers in the
unit that was involved in the shooting. She effectively said to them not to blame themselves. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IRIS HAIM, MOTHER OF SLAIN HOSTAGE YOTAM HAIM (through translator): I know that everything that happened is completely not your fault, it's nobody's
fault except the Hamas. May their name and memory be wiped off the face of the earth. We all need you to be safe and sound, don't hesitate for a
If you see a terrorist, don't think that you've deliberately killed a hostage. You need to protect yourselves because it's the only way you'll be
able to protect us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DIAMOND: And that was her message, but the message from the father of another one of the hostages is very different. He is Avi(ph) Shamriz; he is
the father of Alon Shamriz, and he said the shooter should not have opened fire. He has also accused the Israeli government of murdering his son, and
he also delivered a very poignant message directly to the Israeli prime minister, who did not visit or call him, effectively accusing him of
QUEST: Jeremy Diamond in Tel Aviv tonight. Jeremy, thank you. In Gaza itself, residents are now facing what's described as a toxic mix of
disease, hunger and lack of hygiene. Those are the words from the head of the World Health Organization describing what is, of course, a catastrophic
On a recent mission to northern Gaza, teams of the W.H.O. detailed unbearable conditions. Look at the pictures of this church, which has
turned into a makeshift hospital. Now, apparently, there are no longer any functioning hospitals left in northern Gaza.
Medecins Sans Frontieres known as Doctors Without Borders continues the work inside. Meinie Nicolai is MSF's general director with me now. I'm
grateful for your time. The situation goes from bad to worse, catastrophic to unbelievable. But it's not going to get better, is it? Until the
MEINIE NICOLAI, GENERAL DIRECTOR, MEDECINS SANS FRONTIERES: Really, you say it. The fighting has to stop before we can really address the needs in
Gaza, and that the people are no longer killed. If we look -- since the end of the truce, and our team -- our international team is working in a
hospital in the middle area, so that means it's southern Gaza city and north of Khan Yunis.
So, since the end of the truce, they have had more than 1,600 patients coming, of whom about 45 percent are dead on arrival. So that gives you an
idea on the severity of the injuries, and then we're not talking about these people that are not even discovered between the rubble.
QUEST: You see, I don't know whether you're able to hear my earlier discussion, but Israel says, well, release hostages and you're going to
have a truce. Hamas now says, no, complete cessation of firing or there's no negotiations. And that's the impasse that we're facing tonight. And it's
not easy. I realize, you know, what you want out of this is an end of fighting. But it's not immediately clear how we get there.
NICOLAI: Yes, well, there -- it's a good question, but that's not a question for us to answer. We are doctors and nurses trying to help the
people that live in Gaza. And we are facing a catastrophic situation, 1.9 million people are displaced. No longer functioning hospital as you said in
In the south, the hospital capacity and the healthcare capacity has severely been reduced. The numbers of patients are immense. We have been
ordered out of -- for instance, a healthcare clinic where we were working that we have to evacuate because the ground troops came in.
There were a thousand consultations per day. So they stopped from one day to the other. What we were seeing in those consultations were hypovolemic
shock, dehydration, severe mental health disorders, diarrhea, you name it. It's -- so -- and then now, we're working in a hospital where we stay
inside for a moment, we can work there, but we have to adapt according to the conflict. And indeed --
QUEST: Right --
NICOLAI: We need a ceasefire and a siege needs to end.
QUEST: So I hear what you say. But where do you think the most pressure can now be put?
I accept your point about doctors and nurses, but as the head of the organization, you're also a fairly seasoned diplomat in your own right. I
mean, you know how -- you know how these things work. So where does the pressure now need to be put?
NICOLAI: Well, the pressure needs to be put on the parties to the conflict and with their supporters. We are not sitting at the diplomatic tables. We
are not part of that. We can witness from what we see in hospitals, what we see in healthcare clinics, what current situation is. It's unbearable. We
cannot have almost 2 million people --
QUEST: Right --
NICOLAI: With hardly any relief coming in and the bombing continue. So I think the -- I'm very sorry, the fighting needs to end there.
QUEST: Grateful to have your time with us this evening. Thank you very much indeed, we will talk more, of course, as matters continue. Thank you.
Still to come, an attack that has stunned the Czech Republic, horror at the university! More than a dozen dead. We'll bring you the latest on that.
And the danger is not over in Iceland. Magma may be slowing, but we've got a bird's-eye view of the volcano zone. A live report in just a second.
QUEST: The lava flowing from the volcano in Iceland is slowing. So far, so good, and geologists say the situation is still very dangerous. The magma
is coming to the surface at extremely hot temperatures. Thousands of people have been evacuated from their homes near the volcano, and it looks like
residents won't be able to return home, certainly not in time for Christmas.
CNN's Fred Pleitgen got a firsthand look at the volcano zone with the Icelandic Coast Guard. What was it like?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Richard. It was pretty remarkable. We did -- as we did a chopper tour with
the Icelandic Coast Guard over the entire eruption zone.
I can tell you, the eruption zone is extremely big. We had, of course, that giant fisher that opened up on Monday night spewing lava hundreds of feet
into the air. That was about -- I'd say about 2.5 miles wide. Now, when we flew over there, we do have to say that the eruption had certainly subsided
a great deal, but we did still see a massive sea of lava.
And you know, one of the things that was really remarkable about all of it is that, first of all, you could feel the heat, but you could also
literally smell the gases that were coming from that eruption. It was quite a remarkable trip with the Icelandic Coast Guard, very important for them
to also do those flights though, in case they have to evacuate people. Here's what we saw.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): Iceland's Coast Guard flying into the eruption zone in the Arctic night.
(on camera): These flights are extremely important for the Icelandic Coast Guard. On the one hand, they have to survey the area, but they also have to
practice in case they need to do mass evacuations at night.
(voice-over): Iceland was prepared for the massive eruption that started early this week. A more than 2-mile long fisher spewing magma hundreds of
feet into the air. But while residents have been evacuated, authorities are still working in the area.
JENS POR SIGUROARSON, COMMANDER, ICELANDIC COAST GUARD: So, this is highly important for us to do this during the night. And there's a lot of hazards
PLEITGEN: The crew even spots a person walking close to the lava, and say they notified police to check it out. The eruption has weakened
considerably, but magma is still bubbling below us. The crew strap me in for a closer look.
(on camera): This is an amazing thing to be witnessing from up here. You can see just how active the volcanic zone still is. We can see th lava,
we can smell the magma, we can feel the power that our planet is unleashing.
(voice-over): The chopper drops us off right by the lava field to train evacuations.
(on camera): This is extremely challenging, flying for these aviators. Right now, they're practicing hoist operations in case they have to
medically evacuate a casualty from this area in the dark.
(voice-over): As furious as the eruption was initially, it also seems to be subsiding fast. Seismologist Kristin Jonsdottir tells me.
KRISTIN JONSDOTTIR, ICELANDIC METEOROLOGICAL OFFICE: It was very active in the beginning, 4 kilometers long, a fissure that opened, and very high
rates of magma flow. So it's a bit of a surprise that it has all culminated.
PLEITGEN: Those evacuated cannot return home, yet, as the magma tunnel here remains active and authorities say further eruptions are still
PLEITGEN: First of all, I was quite in awe of those aviators from the Icelandic Coast Guard, those guys really know what they're doing. But as
far as that town of Grindavik, and I'm at the last checkpoint before that town, Richard, as far as that's concerned, the people, as you've noted are
not going to be able to return home for Christmas.
That's because that magma tunnel that caused --
QUEST: Right --
PLEITGEN: That giant eruption is still very active, and it is underneath the town of Grindavik. But it hasn't burst through there just yet, but I
was in that town actually earlier today, you can still see the cracks on the ground, even though crews are working on it.
And the authorities there told us, if the situation changes, we needed to be ready to get out of there in an instant. Richard?
QUEST: Is it likely that these places like Grindavik will not be habitable again?
PLEITGEN: You know what, it's a really interesting question, I think it is something that is certainly possible. I've been coming to here in the past
sort of month and a half since all of this has been going on, and there were people who told me, who were evacuating from Grindavik, who said they
weren't sure that they were going to be able to move back there.
One of the things about this area of Iceland that the authorities here have told us, which I think is absolutely remarkable is they said, this part of
Iceland has been dormant for about --
QUEST: Right --
PLEITGEN: Eight hundred years. But in the last two years, there have been several major eruptions, none of them as big as the one that we've seen
just there. But that crack that we saw is -- just goes straight through Grindavik to the Atlantic Ocean. So it could be that places like that might
become unviable in the future. Richard.
QUEST: Yes, Fred, I've got an interesting fact for you. You may not realize, obviously, you make -- you know today is the northern solstice.
Fred, you have had precisely 4 hours and 27 minutes of daylight today. But it's felt like it's been night time all day.
PLEITGEN: It certainly has, it felt like it's been night time all day, but at least we used the night to fly with the Icelandic Coast Guard --
QUEST: Exactly --
PLEITGEN: That was cool, but yes, the days are very short here.
QUEST: Thank you very much, Fred. Fred got 4 hours. Thank you, Fred. I got a bit more than that. I got nearly 7 or 8 hours here in London. Because
tonight, at 3:27 U.K. and Iceland, and half past 10:00 at night in the U.S., the northern hemisphere welcomes the Winter solstice. The shortest
day of the year and the longest night. So today, 7 hours and 50 minutes of daylight. I can hear you, that's for northern hemisphere.
Let's go south. The opposite, of course, in Sydney. The southern hemisphere where you've got 14 hours, 25 minutes, you're marking the Summer solstice,
your longest day will be on Friday. And while we're here in the north, wait for our days to get longer -- look at this fantastic image, a Christmas
tree in space, two and a half thousand light years from us.
NASA's space telescope has captured the Christmas tree, it's a cluster showing young stars surrounded by gas clouds. Did they find it or did they
create it? Interesting. Still, short days and long to come, a landmark ruling in Europe's top court about the upending in the world of football.
And Europe leaders -- European leaders solidarity after the shooting in the Czech Republic.
QUEST: Isa is off tonight, I am Richard Quest. Remind you of our breaking news in the Czech Republic. Police say at least 15 people have been killed
after an attack at Charles University. Twenty four people have been injured, the police say that the gunman has been killed.
This photo posted on social media shows the -- I mean, just the awfulness of it, what they were all facing. Students climbed out onto the ledge of
the building to get away from the attack. Speaking over the last hour, the Czech Prime Minister says he feels a deep sorrow and disgust over the
Despite the rising number of casualties in Gaza and the escalating humanitarian crisis, according to one group's research, an overwhelming
majority of Palestinians support a mass and the October 7th attack. In a new poll by 12,000 people in Gaza and the West Bank by the Palestinian
Center for Policy and Survey Research, 72 percent said Hamas's decision to attack Israel was correct, 22 percent say it was incorrect. The Gaza survey
was done during the recent truce.
Added to that, U.S. intelligence agencies are warning that Hamas's influence has grown dramatically since the attacks. And some analysts fear
in the U.S. that Israel's military response is actually fueling Hamas' popularity and inspiring more terrorism. One official said, support has
grown in the region, with many viewing it as the one group that is actually standing up to Israel.
Now, our next guest has studied public opinion in the Arab world for decades, Shibley Telhami is the Anwar Sadat: Professor for Peace and
Development at the University of Maryland, also senior fellow at Brookings. With me now, sir, thank you.
Now, to the point on right away, we all -- everybody said, well, you're just breeding the next generation of terrorists if you continue to -- with
the war like it's going. So, that much was known from the beginning. But this idea that such a very high percentage support the attack on October
7th, doesn't that give Israel its justification for basically saying, what were we supposed to do? You've got a bunch of people here who are happy
that our civilians got massacred.
SHIBLEY TELHAMI, ANWAR SADAT: PROFESSOR FOR PEACE AND DEVELOPMENT, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND AND SENIOR FELLOW, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: I know
that the instinct, of course, but, Richard, you and I know, you've looked at many conflicts before. This is not the only one, as I have studied many
conflicts. And when you have a lot of suffering, a lot of death on your side, we see that on every side of the conflict where the hearts hardened -
- harden and you find it hard to empathize with the other. You always focus on your own suffering on the need to answer your own problems.
So, we see that not only on the Palestinian side, we see it on the Israeli side. I mean, look at how the Israelis, many of them, after the horrific
attack by Hamas on October 7th, many said, let's level Gaza, including even the president of Israel who's considered moderate by Israeli political
standards said, you know, there are no, you know, innocent people, essentially, in Gaza. Now, you find also despite the fact that every human
rights organization has essentially labeled, you know, Israeli action in Gaza as a war crime. The overwhelming majority of Israelis don't see it
And on the Palestinian side, by the way, in the same poll, remember, most of them don't believe that Hamas committed war crimes. Most of them have
never seen the evidence or looked at it. And that's what happened. So, it's not a shocking thing to me. It is an unfortunate product of war, typically.
QUEST: Right. But -- OK. So, if that is the scenario or that is the situation, the one big difference, I think, is that in Israel, if there
were to be -- which there's not, I'll take your point. But if there were to be a democratic movement to stop the war. In other words, enough Israelis
got up and said to Netanyahu, stop it and stop it now. The political process would have to take place. We're not seeing anything like that.
20,000 Palestinians dead. And, frankly, the view from Hamas is, well, we really don't care.
TELHAMI: Well, I mean, the bottom line, is you're right. There is no political process on the horizon. And I think, you know, this reality, of
course, existed prior to October 7th. I mean, in fact, one reason why many Palestinians support Hamas is not because they embrace Hamas's message or
they believe in its Islamist ideology. Many Palestinians who are now saying their support are really secular. They don't want Hamas to rule over them.
But there's been so much despair, over the years, the decades, really, you know, more than a lifetime for -- in a lifetime for most of them, more than
a half a century, both in Gaza and in the West Bank who have been suffering.
TELHAMI: And peaceful methods didn't work, right? So that essentially, I wrote a piece in April saying that our own administration, the Biden
administration, I know it wants to clamp down on violence, but instead it was stoking it by essentially taking away the peaceful means. For example -
- and I'm responding to increasing settler violence. For example, protecting settlement building at the U.N., for example, seeking Israeli
agreements with Arab states at the expense of the Palestinians.
People, were very, very frustrated even if they didn't embrace Hamas. And they were frustrated by the Palestinian authority which was seen to be
essentially a subcontractor for Israeli security instead of looking at such interest.
TELHAMI: So, that is essentially the dynamic that Hamas exploited for its own purposes, but exploited in October 7th -- on October 7th.
QUEST: Now, obviously, I realize that neither in Israel or indeed in the Muslim world as Christmas celebrated per se. But we are only several days
away, and the birthplace is in the region. And there is no -- as I stand here or sit here tonight talking to you, Shibley, I cannot see any way in
which this moves forward with -- to some sort of truce or to some sort of ceasefire. Now, of course, it can come out of left field at the last
minute, and a bit of Christmas cheer may somehow, somewhere. But am I wrong?
TELHAMI: No, I think -- let's put it this way. Theoretically, major crisis of this sort, this is -- we don't want, in decades, kind of, crisis, can
open up theoretically, you know, political opportunities, diplomatic opportunities. I don't see it for several reasons. One is that I don't see
it happening in Israel right now. I don't see it happening in -- amongst Palestinians. But more importantly, the U.S. which has the biggest role, I
don't see anything in this president's resume that says he is able to do what needs to be done to move anything moving forward given the fact that
he couldn't even condemn the bombings that most in the world see as, at a minimum, war crimes.
So, it's -- and even worse being essentially complicit in them. So, it's a problem right now for diplomacy. And I would go even further. I don't think
it's right to talk about it now because we're near an ending. We need to think about ending the conflict, both the Palestinians and Israelis are
suffering. A lot of innocents mostly innocents, as you know. I mean, people are homeless. People are, you know, facing increasing casualties. But also,
we still are possibly facing escalation.
It's not on the question that the northern front between Hezbollah and Israel could erupt any time. It's not on the question that Iran could be
drawn in. It's not on the question that the U.S. could be drawn in. So, we really are up against what we should put all our efforts in is not thinking
so much, because we don't know how this is going to end. Anybody who thinks they do -- well, I, at least they're smarter than me as a political
scientist who've been observing this for decades. I don't know how this is going to go. And I think we need to put our efforts right now to end it
QUEST: Sir, I'm grateful for you. We will talk more. And whatever you may be celebrating over the days or weeks ahead, I wish you well over it. Thank
Now, whether it likes it or not, the U.S. Supreme Court is very likely to play a major role in next year's U.S. presidential election. It's already
got at least two cases. Lawyers for Former President Donald Trump are asking the court to stay out of a dispute on immunity. This may be a
delaying tactic after the special counsel for extraordinary rulings on Trump's immunity claims.
Trump's team is also vowing to appeal a rule by Colorado's Supreme Court. Kicking the former president off the ballot because of the 14th Amendment
to the constitution, insurrection. Smith has weighed in today. He's urged the court to decide immediately on immunity. He said the charges of the
CNN's Justice Correspondent Jessica Schneider joins me from Washington. I'm fascinated by the Colorado decision because I'm seeing lots of serious
academic people saying that, actually, the Colorado majority is right. Legally, they got the decision right. But if we -- and since this is a
state matter, what happens when it gets to the Supreme Court? And then just to really muddle your mind, the three people that Trump put on the court.
Help me out here.
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So -- I mean, there's a lot of debate over this 14th Amendment question, Richard. You know, we saw
the lower court interpret the 14th Amendment Section 3 one way, and then we saw the Colorado Supreme Court interpret it a different way. Saying that
Trump shouldn't be on the ballot based on his provision. And that's why there's a lot of debate here, and that's why, ultimately, this will
probably be up to the U.S. Supreme Court to potentially settle this issue that's never been fully litigated in this context, especially.
I mean, just to break it down for viewers here, Section 4 -- sorry, the 14th Amendment Section 3, it says that anyone involved in insurrection
can't hold certain offices, and it specifically lists Senate and Congress.
There's no specific listing of the presidency, and that's why the lower court said, I find that Donald Trump was part of this insurrection, that he
incited it. However, because this section of the 14th Amendment doesn't specifically say the presidency, I can't exclude Trump from the ballot. The
Colorado Supreme Court said, but, of course, an office means the presidency, so we're going to find that it does.
QUEST: Right. So, let so let me just quickly jump in there. We're talking about -- we're talking about jurisprudence at the highest level. And I
don't think for one second that the three -- that he put on the court would find in a way in his favor because he put them on a court -- on the court,
I don't think that for one split second. What I do find fascinating is whether their jurisprudence, might -- and their view of government and its
relationship might mean that they are more favorable to those arguments.
SCHNEIDER: Well, look -- I mean, those justices pride themselves in being very conservative. So, we have a majority conservative court here. And what
they tend to do is they tend to look very specifically at the text of the constitution.
So, you know, political preferences aside, Richard, of these three justices in particular who Donald Trump put on the court, they're potentially going
to say because the 14th Amendment here doesn't say presidency, we can't exclude a presidential candidate from the ballot based on this sort of
reading of the 14th Amendment. So, yes, I would agree with you. I think they will find ultimately if when -- if and when they take up this case to
keep Donald Trump on the ballot. People will argue that's a political, but they're going to say, look, we're reading the exact text of the 14th
QUEST: Oh, glad to have had you with us this evening. I hope -- and you and I are going to discuss this many times more.
QUEST: I feel absolutely so. Thank you very much. Good to have you with us tonight.
Oh, yes. I'll need a glass of water. Now, the Former New York City Mayor, Rudy Giuliani, has filed for bankruptcy. It obviously follows that case
where a jury ordered him to pay nearly a $150 million to two former election workers who sued him for defamation. The debts, he says, are
between $100 million and $500 million dollars. He has assets of $10 million.
As you and I continue tonight, Europe's controversial Super League, is it going to come back? Well, highly possible. Not likely, I don't know. But
the Europe's top court and the beautiful game in a moment.
QUEST: OK. Good news if you're hoping to travel on the Eurostar. Well, maybe not good, but better. The sudden strike has ended, and Eurostar
services between London, Paris, Anthem are gradually resuming on Brussels. The strike force Eurostar to cancel many trains, the strikers were workers
at the tunnel, the Eurotunnel, not the actual train service. Eurotunnel said, they've reached an agreement with the union over dispute. It's all
about the amount of money that we're going to have for the end of year, but services can be expected to be very busy.
Now, ruling by Europe's top court on Thursday basically could open up new opportunities for competitive football. You remember a few years ago, there
was an idea for a Super League involving Europe's 12 biggest clubs. It ended in failure in less than 48 hours after UEFA and FIFA really went
after it. There was outrage, players in the sporting and governing bodies.
Now, the European courts ruled that the actions of FIFA and UEFA were monopolistic. That they had no right to do what they did, or if they did,
it was so un -- in transparent that these acted as a monopoly.
Darren Lewis is with me, CNN Senior Sports Analyst. The interesting thing is, Darren, the court didn't say, you can't have this or you can't do this.
They basically said, FIFA and UEFA had acted as a monopoly and therefore had acted unfairly. And as I read FIFA's statement tonight, they have sort
of avoided that little bit of it.
DARREN LEWIS, CNN SENIOR SPORTS ANALYST: You know, I knew coming on here that you'd be somewhat very adept at reading the tea leaves of the business
aspect of this, Richard, rather than the footballing aspect because there is still a sporting pulse still beating as far as the people behind the
Super League are concerned. And this is -- let's not make any mistake, this is turning into a fight for the future of European club football because,
as you say, had the European Court of Justice ruled in UEFA's favor then that would have been it. The whole idea of a Super League would have been
Instead, crucially, they did say no uncertain terms that FIFA and UEFA rules blocking the formation of a Super League are contrary to E.U. law.
And they also did say crucially that the commercial rights, the rules around those are anti-competitive.
Now, as you and our viewers know UEFA are the European football's governing body. FIFA, our world football's governing body. Now, UEFA, they organize
the Champions League. They regulate the competition. They sell the T.V. rights and that earns them billions.
LEWIS: And the courts didn't rule on the specific Super League project, but it did say that UEFA's market dominance was an abuse, and threatening
sanctions for the clubs trying to join this breakaway was wrong.
QUEST: So, we'll -- in the next hour, in "Quest Means Business", we'll discuss the business aspects of that. But from the sporting aspects because
you alluded to that at the beginning of your answer, it now that there's sort of a glimmer of hope has been put, is it your view that somebody,
sooner or later, is going to have another run at this?
LEWIS: Well, they're already having a run at this because A22 is the organization behind the original plans today. They launched a really slick,
promotional video to outline their vision for European football's future.
Now, the UEFA president, Aleksander Ceferin, you may remember I interviewed him exclusively for CNN in April 22 when the plans were first mooted. He
has dismissed these latest plans. But A22 say they would run like the champions league in midweek, and they would open up football for all. And,
crucially, their CEO, Bernd Reichart, he has said that the ruling today has, in his words, opened the door to new innovation in football.
So, yes, in answer to your question, that has not gone away. Someone is going to make a run at it. And at the moment, it is A22.
QUEST: And you, sir, will help us understand every twist and turn when it happens. I'm grateful for your time tonight, sir. Thank you.
LEWIS: You too. Thank you.
QUEST: Tonight, we continue, Argentina's new president, well, he said he was going to do it, and he's doing it. 300 changes to the Argentinean
economy, in a moment, people are protesting.
QUEST: To Argentina, the new president said he was going to deregulate the economy, and that's exactly what he started to do. Javier Milei said the
measures will eliminate or change more than 300 rules in what he describes as returning freedom and autonomy to individuals. Many, in a degree,
protests on the street.
David Shortell is with me. I mean, no one can say Milei didn't say what he's going to do. And now he's doing it.
DAVID SHORTELL, CNN JOURNALIST: Yes, Richard, that's right. This was a guy who literally campaigned with a chainsaw in his hand that are not so subtle
reference to what he planned to do to government spending when he took office. And just a few days ago in his inaugural speech, the basic thesis
there was this is going to hurt. He called it shock therapy. But he said, in the long run, it will work.
Now, Wednesday evening, announcing more than 300 laws and regulations on the books, currently in the country set to be repealed or reformed in the
coming days of this policy that he calls a new economic plan for the country in fact goes through. The main idea here is to take the government
out of the economy. As you know, this is an economy that's not in very good shape. Argentina contending with one of the highest inflation rates in the
I'll take you through a few of the pieces of reform that he outlined in these decrees signing ceremony last night. Well, one of them was a plan to
take steps to privatize the country's state-run companies that include a national airline and some energy groups. He's also said he's going to end
export tariffs in the country and deregulate around the country's rental housing market.
Importantly, he says, he's also set to roll back some more employee benefits, which is certain to be a flashpoint in the country. Argentina
already contending with very high rates of poverty. There are some very powerful unions in that country as well. Take a listen to Milei on the
radio this morning, explaining a bit of the rationale around this reform.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAVIER MILEI, PRESIDENT OF ARGENTINA (through translator): People will benefit from lower inflation. They will benefit with the economy
recovering. They will find a better job, a better quality of life.
What's the alternative? I do nothing and we go into hyperinflation? And profits will not drop 10 percent, 20 percent, but will drop 90 percent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHORTELL: And markets reacting largely positively on the back of this announcement. Markets, of course, just one metric. The mood in the street
vastly different, as you noted, thousands taking to the street. Richard, there are protests planned for tonight and tomorrow as well. Protesters
want these austerity measures rolled back.
QUEST: I'm grateful, sir. Thank you very much.
Earlier in the program, I told you it was the winter solstice tonight, the shortest day of the year, and the start of the astronomical winter. Now,
you might think it's all very cold and Christmassy and all of that, but remember that famous quote, leave you with this thought. Remember it's from
Shelley, "If winter comes, can spring be far behind"? It's from the "Ode to the West Wind" by Shelley. It's one of Britain's best love romantic poets.
And that is the thought I take with me tonight as I baffle off into the blue yonder on the cold -- well, not the coldest, but the shortest night of
the year. I leave you with that thought. "If winter comes, can spring be far behind?" "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" next.