Return to Transcripts main page
Isa Soares Tonight
Israeli Chief Pathologist Who Autopsied Yahya Sinwar's Body Says Sinwar Died Of A Gunshot Wound To The Head; Biden Says Sinwar's Killing Could Be "A Path To Peace"; Trump And Harris Both Campaign In Michigan; Hamas Confirms Death Of Its Leader, Yahya Sinwar; Questions Remain In Death Of One Direction's Liam Payne; Some Christian Trump Supporters Say He Was Sent By God; Scientists Pinpoint The Origins Of Our Love Of Carbs; October Supermoon Lights Up In The Night Sky. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired October 18, 2024 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, the chief pathologist who autopsied the
body of Yahya Sinwar, tells CNN what he believes killed the Hamas leader. We are live for you in Israel in just a moment.
Also ahead, President Biden says Sinwar's killing could be quote, "a path to peace". Well, Israel and Hamas shared that optimism in this moment.
I'll chat with a former Irish President Mary Robinson on the diplomatic path ahead. And Kamala Harris and Donald Trump are both campaigning for
pivotal votes in the swing state of Michigan today.
We'll have a closer look at the blue wall, and why it matters so much. But first, tonight, the Middle East remains on edge after Israel eliminated its
number one enemy, that's Yahya Sinwar. Hamas confirming that its leader was killed by Israeli forces. Palestinians who are mourning Sinwar's death
gathered on Friday in Mosques to pray for their slain leader who they perceive as a martyr.
Thousands of protesters rallied in Yemen's capital to honor Sinwar as you can see there. Many there were chanting slogans and carrying posters of the
dead Hamas leader. Top U.S. officials were hoping Sinwar's death sparks an opportunity for progress in the war in Gaza. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LLOYD AUSTIN, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, UNITED STATES: Clearly, there are opportunities for a change in direction, and we would hope that, you know,
parties would take advantage of that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, U.S. President Joe Biden detailed his discussions with Israel. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I told the Prime Minister of Israel yesterday, let's also make this moment an opportunity to seek a path
to peace, a better future in Gaza without Hamas. And I look forward discussing Iran.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, Hamas remains defiant, saying it will not free the remaining hostages until Israel ends the war, withdraws from Gaza and Palestinian
prisoners are released. And a brief note on this story on yesterday's show, I misspoke when discussing casualty figures in Gaza. And just to clarify,
the latest numbers from the Gaza Ministry of Health put the death toll in the -- at the enclave more than 42,000 people since the war began.
I want to get right to our Jeremy Diamond for all those strands right now, he joins us from Tel Aviv. And Jeremy, suppose a question this hour, and
I'm not sure whether we even have an answer at this moment. Is where the war goes next, right? We've seen Israel today calling up additional reserve
brigades to northern Israel. That doesn't suggest that the end is in sight. But what are you hearing first and foremost?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, we heard the Israeli Prime Minister last night say that while this is an important step in the
war, killing Sinwar, he made clear that it does not immediately spell the end of that war. Instead, he kind of phrased this as the beginning of the
end of Hamas, the beginning of the end of the war, perhaps as well.
But the pathway to getting there still remains quite uncertain. But at this hour, as we are about 24 hours removed now from this kind of earth-
shattering news that Sinwar was killed in Gaza by Israeli forces, I actually sat down today with the man who did the autopsy on Sinwar's body,
and while the Israeli military has told us that -- suggested at least, that a tank shell fired at a building dealt the final blow to Sinwar, that he
was found dead in the rubble of that building.
This doctor, the chief pathologist at the Israeli Forensic National Institute tells me that he believes it was a gunshot wound to the head that
actually killed Sinwar. He says that a bullet was actually found inside of Sinwar's skull, and he believes, based on his examination of the body,
that, that is what killed him.
Before he made that determination though, Israeli -- the Israeli military first needed to understand whether or not this was actually Sinwar. And
we've seen, of course, these images in which it appeared that a finger from Sinwar's body was cut off, and Dr. Kugel; the pathologist explained to me
why that was.
[14:05:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHEN KUGEL, CHIEF PATHOLOGIST, ISRAEL NATIONAL CENTER OF FORENSIC MEDICINE: There's a suspicion that this is Yahya Sinwar, and they sent a sample, a
finger that they cut from his body in order to make the DNA profile, and after the laboratory here made the profile, we compared it with the profile
that Sinwar had in that he was serving here as a prisoner.
So then, we could identify him finally by his DNA. After the final identification, then the body arrived here at about 9:30 yesterday.
DIAMOND: What percentage of certainty do you have based on that DNA analysis?
KUGEL: One hundred percent, one hundred percent, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DIAMOND: And now, the Israeli military, we reached out about this, you know, finding that it was a gunshot wound to the head that killed Sinwar.
And they say that for now, all they know is that there was an exchange of fire, but that they believe that the way that this battle ultimately ended,
it was with a tank shell being fired at that building, but they say they are still looking into exactly what caused Sinwar's death.
But Dr. Kugel, as you can hear there, is very confident in his findings and also very confident that this man was indeed Yahya Sinwar, and he said that
he was proud to have signed his death certificate.
SOARES: Important to hear from him directly, Jeremy, appreciate it, thank you very much. Let's stay in the region. Mary Robinson served as the former
U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights as well as the first female President of Ireland, today, she chairs the Elders, a group of world
leaders founded by Nelson Mandela back in 2007.
And she joins me now. Mary, welcome back to the show, very good to see you. I want to start our conversation in Gaza, really, and what the death of
Yahya Sinwar means for Palestinians, not only for Palestinians, but for the region. President Biden, as you would have seen, Mary, said that this is an
opportunity to seek a path to peace.
But as you probably heard, Netanyahu said in the last 24 hours that the war is not over yet. How do you assess this moment, Mary?
MARY ROBINSON, CHAIR, THE ELDERS: Well, it could be a real turning point for peace, but unfortunately, it seems to be slipping away because of a
lack of leadership that is needed, especially on the Israeli side at this point. Of course, I would have liked Sinwar to have been brought before the
International Criminal Court for the terrible crimes he committed on the 7th of October, organized.
But there is a moment now, I'm very glad that President Biden is urging a ceasefire, the release of hostages, the release of the Palestinians that
have been really detained. And you know, the end to the 42,500 at least to have been killed in Gaza, and a huge number in a very short time in
Lebanon.
Civilians, women and children, this must stop. There is an opportunity for it to stop, there's no excuse not to stop at this stage. Hamas has been
depleted, it's time for peace.
SOARES: Yes, and I'm not sure whether you saw, but Hamas, even though it has been severely depleted, said today they will not release the hostages
until Israel ends its -- the war, withdraws from Gaza. And then we have this statement, I want to make -- the tweet, I should say on X, from Benny
Gantz, I'm just going to ask my producer to bring it up where he says, of course, he's Israel's Minister of Defense.
He said "the circle is closed, but the mission is not over. The IDF will continue to operate in the Gaza Strip for years to come." Which kind of
brings me to kind of my initial question, Mary, I mean, what would it take at this point you think for the war to end? And do you see -- and where do
you see a path, if you see one at all at this juncture, Mary, for a two- state solution?
ROBINSON: Well, in a way or sadly, the failure to seize this moment and bring --
SOARES: Yes --
ROBINSON: About a ceasefire and cease this killing of civilians and the destruction of the homes and terrible wounding of so many. The failure to
do that is a failure of leadership, and you know, I hope President Biden will really lean on Prime Minister Netanyahu, he has not been very
effective because he has not withheld arms. That's the way to be effective with the Israelis, to withhold arms when they are crossing a line on
humanitarian killing.
SOARES: A failure of leadership, are you saying that President Biden has failed here?
ROBINSON: Well, let me put it this way. I know President Biden is very keen on peace. I know he's worked --
SOARES: Yes --
ROBINSON: Day and night. He's now on the phone to the Prime Minister of Qatar, as he should be in Egypt and all the others, and I hope that
Netanyahu will for change really listen to him. He's a wise man, President Biden, he's had a lot of experience. He may not have used the levers that
the elders would have liked, and I think many in the developing world in particular, see as being double-standards and not restraining the way in
which Israel has over reacted. I understand that the trauma of the 7th of October, we've talked to some of the --
SOARES: Yes --
ROBINSON: Families of hostages, I grieve for the hostages now because they want this moment to be their moment of peace. A peace, a --
SOARES: Yes --
ROBINSON: Ceasefire, and let's move on.
[14:10:00]
SOARES: Let's talk about those levers and the pressure that can be applied because -- and I think context is important here, Mary, we are less than
what? Three weeks from a U.S. election in the last week, you would have known, our viewers would have noticed, I mean, it was one of our top
stories on that day that the Biden administration sent a letter to the Israeli government demanding action to improve the humanitarian situation
in Gaza within the next 30 days, right?
Or risk military aid, basically putting that in jeopardy. One, do you think, you know, this is post-U.S. election? Do you think that U.S. would
follow through on that, Mary, and how do you assess to -- how the Biden administration has handled this and its relationship, key me here, to
Netanyahu. Is as you clearly said, who seems to not have heeded Biden's advice?
ROBINSON: Well, certainly, I think 30 days is a very long time given the killing that's going on both in Gaza and in Lebanon of --
SOARES: Yes --
ROBINSON: Civilians. I'm talking about the civilian population, women and children. It's heartbreaking and you know, it happened overnight in Gaza.
It is not stopping. So, it's good that the Biden administration has sanctioned some of the settlers in the West Bank. It's very good that
United Kingdom has come out with sanctions for organizations and for the outpost, which are part of the problem of, you know, growing settler --
taking over parts of the West Bank.
And I'm very glad that they have sanctioned AMANA(ph), which is a construction company for the all the settler community. That's what needs
to happen, it should have happened a while ago, but I really welcome that has happened.
SOARES: And if after 30 days, Mary, we don't see any change in terms of the humanitarian situation which we know is incredibly dire as you well know,
the U.N. Human Rights Office warned that Israel's quote, "effectively sealing off north Gaza", and may be carrying out in their words, large-
scale forced transfer of the civilian population.
We have also heard from doctors in northern Gaza who have been describing a catastrophic situation, fatigue over-crowding, hunger, you know the dire
picture on the ground and particularly in northern Gaza. If after --
ROBINSON: Yes --
SOARES: Thirty days, Israel doesn't change its ways when it relate -- and what relates to the humanitarian situation and aid. What then -- what
levers? Because you were talking about levers the U.S. can apply, and it hasn't. Do you think that President Biden with -- you know, post-U.S.
election will have -- will want to spend political capital on this and can he, you think?
ROBINSON: I actually don't think we can wait those 30 days so-called, because of the killings that are going on. Because it's unnecessary now.
Hamas has been depleted. We can bring about the end to this awful war that has hurt so many civilians, including the Israelis and their families who
were killed and kidnapped.
But we can -- we can end it now with a focus on a ceasefire for both Gaza and Lebanon. Let's be -- you know, let's be human about this. It's
appalling what has happened. Red lines have been crossed. Now, the Knesset is trying to ban or unravel UNRWA. UNRWA is vital as I know, and all elders
know we've worked with UNRWA over the years.
Yes, UNRWA, you know, investigates when there are allegations, so they should. But UNRWA is vital to the West Bank, vital to Gaza, vital to east
Jerusalem, vital to refugees elsewhere in Jordan, et cetera. And so, we need to be very -- and in Lebanon, we need to be very --
SOARES: Yes --
ROBINSON: Careful to criticize this government of Prime Minister Netanyahu when it is not doing the right thing. I actually feel very strongly for the
Israeli people. This has been a terrible trauma, but you're being badly led. Honestly, you're being badly led at the moment because there is no end
point. It seems to be military --
SOARES: Yes --
ROBINSON: Solutions. And I hope there will be a very sensible approach to Iran, and the elders have been in conversation with Iran. We met the
President of Iran, one Manuel Santos(ph) and myself during the U.N. General Assembly. And Iran is ready to talk about a regional way of resolving the
nuclear weapons issue.
And that's how it should be done. Diplomacy, hard work of getting down and sitting with people. That's what should happen.
SOARES: Mary Robinson, always great to get your perspective and insight, thank you, Mary, good to see you.
ROBINSON: Thank you.
SOARES: Well, the U.S. President is headed home following a high stakes visit to Berlin. Joe Biden met with his European counterparts as well as
allies from the U.K., Germany and France. Those talks of course, on the heels of news of the leader of Hamas' death.
[14:15:00]
The discussions are centered also on Ukraine. On the tarmac before leaving Berlin, Mr. Biden said there was unanimous support for Ukraine between the
leaders, but still no consensus on allowing its military to hit targets in Russia using long-range weapons. That is something as you well know that
Ukraine's President has made clear is key part -- a key part of his so- called victory plan, which we had more details of earlier this week.
Fred Pleitgen is live in Berlin for us. And Fred, as leaders met in Berlin discussing Ukraine and no doubt, I imagine also what's happening and
unfolding in the Middle East. We were learning -- and I wonder if you can shed more light here on this, learning than North Korea is sending some
1,500 troops to aid Russia's war in Ukraine. What more can you tell us about this and what has been the reaction from these allies to this
development?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, the Ukrainians have been saying that they believe that the North Koreans
are sending people to aid the Russians there in their battle against the Ukrainians. And certainly, there are some pictures and videos that appear
to have emerged that seem to show North Koreans possibly getting a Russian military gear, Russian military uniforms, that is certainly something that
the Ukrainians are saying is happening.
So far here, what you're hearing from the leaders of those allies of the United States, and of course, the European countries as well is that they
want to continue to aid Ukraine. There really wasn't anything specific about this possible new aid from North Korea, but at the same time, the
European allies and the United States are saying that they are going to full-on continue to support Ukraine.
You mentioned that he said there was near unanimity, one of the things obviously that the Ukrainians have been asking for again and again, Isa, is
to -- for the U.S. and other countries to allow them to use some of those longer distance weapons that they have already gotten from the United
States and other countries to be able to strike deep into Russia.
And so far, that hasn't been forthcoming. The Ukrainians say that, that is something that's very detrimental to their defense. They believe that they
can hold up some of the Russian advances that have been going on in the east of the country, and of course, that are made more powerful the
Ukrainians say by North Korean ammunition that they're getting, and then possibly North Korean fighters as well if they're allowed to strike deep
into Russian territory.
And I think it's something that the Ukrainians are going to keep pushing for, and I also think that there's actually quite an interesting dynamic
that's going on there as well, and that we've seen time and again, that the way that the United States goes is the way that the main allies of the
United States go as far as supporting Ukraine is concerned.
And so, therefore, countries like the United Kingdom, for instance, could give Ukraine the possibility to use those Storm Shadows missiles deep into
Russia -- into Russian territory if for instance, the U.S. allows Ukraine to use its weapons to do the same thing. So, all of that is very important,
but it doesn't seem as though there's been much headway made on that, despite all these leaders saying that they are going to continue Ukraine --
Olaf Scholz said, once again, for as long as it takes, Isa.
SOARES: Yes, and despite the many meetings and gatherings, it doesn't seem like the needle is moving on that front for now, Fred Pleitgen, appreciate
it, thank you very much, Fred. And still to come tonight, the Great Lake's state is front and center in the U.S. presidential race, both Donald Trump
and Kamala Harris are in Michigan today.
We'll have a live report from both campaigns. That's just ahead for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:20:00]
SOARES: In what you could call a blue wall blitz, Vice President Kamala Harris is campaigning in Michigan today after visiting two other
battleground states, earlier this week, Pennsylvania as well as Wisconsin. Harris will make three stops on Friday, including a meeting with union
workers whose votes will be critical in Michigan.
On Saturday, she'll be joined by pop star Lizzo for a get-out-the-vote event in Detroit. Our Priscilla Alvarez is following the Harris campaign
for Michigan's Oakland County and she joins us now. So, Priscilla, just explain to our viewers right around the world how crucial Michigan is for
Harris right now and the strategy in the state here.
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is certainly the Vice President trying to fortify what's known as the blue wall states. It is the
most favorable path to 270 electoral votes. And that's exactly what this campaign has to clinch, or either campaign has to clinch to get that
victory in November.
So, it is why this state in particular is so crucial. Now, it is one that President Biden only won narrowly in 2020. Some of the counties that the
Vice President is going to, today, are trying to keep those gains. For example, there's Kent County, that is a county that voted for former
President Donald Trump in 2016, but then voted for Biden in 2020.
The other two counties are counties that Biden won by wider margins in 2020 versus 2016. So, certainly, this is the campaign trying to make sure that
they can lock in their coalition in these different parts of the state. Now, in Lansing, the Vice President in particular is going to be focused on
union workers.
Of course, that is a crucial part of the voter bloc that she needs to keep to try to win this state. And as she's going to draw a stark contrast with
former President Donald Trump, especially on manufacturing. Now, the other sort of new element here is that, this is going to be the first
presidential election where Michigan can early vote in person.
And that is something that campaign officials tell me they were trying to capitalize on because this seat is very complicated. There are a lot of
different parts of the coalition here, the Arab-American community, for example is one where the campaign knows are going to have some losses given
the Israel-Hamas war.
But they're trying to make up ground, say, with a suburban areas in the state in those white college-educated voters, and they want to try to do
that early on and try to get them to early vote. They're going to use the star power to do that. I'm told that tomorrow in Detroit, the Vice
President will be joined by Lizzo, and then later she'll be in Georgia where she's going to be joined by Usher.
So, clearly, trying to bring in those big names this week, then again next week with the Obamas to get and mobilize voters to the polls.
SOARES: Priscilla, appreciate it, thank you very much. Well, further underscoring just how critical the vote in Michigan will be. Donald Trump
is also in the state today, the former President will take part in a roundtable in the Detroit suburb and later hold a campaign rally in the
city.
Trump is back after Thursday's appearance, if you remember, at a Catholic charity fundraiser where he slammed Harris for not attending the event, and
took verbal shots at her family. Our Alayna Treene is with the Trump campaign in Detroit. And Alayna, let me just ask the question that I put to
Priscilla in terms of how critical or important that the Trump campaign view Michigan and what we're likely to see today?
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Oh, they absolutely view this state as critical. You've seen Donald Trump here every single week. In recent
months, and he's going to continue to be hitting the ground here aggressively ahead of November 5th. Remember, Michigan has 15 electoral
votes.
That is crucial in this broader election and in the pathway that Priscilla was discussing, of trying to reach 200 -- 270 electoral votes in November.
And again, it is a state he won in 2016, but lost to Joe Biden in 2020. Now, when I talked to Donald Trump's senior advisors, they tell me that out
of all of the three so-called blue wall states, that includes Michigan, but also Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.
[14:25:00]
They are actually the most confident in winning Michigan. And that's why they're spending so much time here to really shore up that support. Now,
you did mention he's going to first be in Oakland County as well, the Vice President. Now, Oakland County is just north of Detroit, it is the second
largest county in Michigan, and it is in the Detroit suburbs.
And that's -- the suburbs are really where Donald Trump is also trying to make in-roads with a ton of voters, specifically women voters. I'd remind
you that earlier this week, Donald Trump did a "Fox News" town-hall with an all-female audience, and really trying to close that gender gap where you
see a lot of women voters actually going for Kamala Harris.
So, that's been a lot of the road work that Donald Trump has been trying to work on in recent weeks. We also know -- and this is some new reporting I
have, that he -- his campaign as well as Nikki Haley; the former South Carolina governor and also his former primary challenger, they are in talks
to have her appear and be deployed on the trail with Donald Trump.
Again, a sign that they are really trying to court female voters. So, that's part of why Donald Trump is here today, but I also think you'll hear
him talk a lot about the auto industry, about the economy, and how he wants to make Detroit a once great city --
SOARES: Alayna Treene there for us --
TREENE: A great city once again, Isa --
SOARES: I appreciate it, thanks very much Alayna Treene there. Well, all of Cuba is without power right now after one of the island's major power
plants fell, leaving millions without electricity. For more, I want to go to Havana and CNN's Patrick Oppmann. Patrick, just give us a sense how wide
this is. Is it across Cuba island wide and how long may this last do you think?
PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we're coming to you off generator for -- of course, as long as we can. And Cubans are no strangers, Isa, as
you know, to power outages, but not like this. The entire island has been without power now for about almost three hours. And that is very worrying
because already officials were warning people that power outages were expected to get worse.
They did not announce so, that an island-wide power outage was in the offing. That is something that has only ever happened, and I remember, at
least, after major hurricanes. And so, for Cuban officials just sort of tell people, get prepared for longer, proud outage -- power outages, and
then to have this, where the entire island, you know, some 10 million people do not have power is very worrying because of course, people's food
after a while sure to go bad.
Yes, we have generators, but you can't get more fuel unless you haven't stored up. So, the situation starts to get worse and worse, and having gone
through this after storms and with the problems that you encounter living in a country like Cuba, the longer it goes on, the worse it gets for
people.
Officials say they're working to get the power restored as quickly as they can. No update on that yet, and when they had earlier -- before the island-
wide powder -- power outage took place, you know, earlier, they said it was going to be a very long weekend because they were waiting for boats to come
in carrying more fuel.
I think, perhaps they underestimated exactly how difficult the next few days are going to be as we all wait for the lights to come back on.
SOARES: Indeed, and I know you'll stay across it, thanks very much, Patrick Oppmann there for us in Havana in Cuba. And still to come tonight --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Do you think Trump was sent from God?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do. I do.
O'SULLIVAN: Tell me more about that --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was divine intervention.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Why Christian nationalists are fighting to put Donald Trump back in the White House. Plus, we'll take a closer look at what the death of Hamas
leader Yahya Sinwar can mean for the war in Gaza and beyond. That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:31:41]
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. Iranian President Masoud Pezeshkian says that Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar fought heroically, his words, in the final
moments before his death. In comments made on Iranian State media, he said the struggle against Israeli aggression will go on.
Well, the militant group has confirmed Sinwar is dead, killed by Israeli forces in Gaza on Wednesday. And this new video shows what the Israel
Defense Forces say is the moment IDF troops fired on the building where Sinwar was hiding. The Hamas leader's death is raising renewed optimism as
you've been here for the past 24 hours for a possible ceasefire and hostage release deal, but all of that is far from certain.
Joining me now is Colin Clarke. He's the Director of Policy and Research at the Soufan Group and the author of After the Caliphate: The Islamic State
and the Future of the Terrorist Diaspora. Welcome to the show.
COLIN CLARKE, DIRECTOR OF POLICY AND RESEARCH, THE SOUFAN GROUP: Thank you so much for having me.
SOARES: Great to have you and see you in person.
CLARKE: Likewise.
SOARES: We have lot to get through let's talk about what we have seen just in the past 24 hours. Yahya Sinwar now is gone. And I wonder whether you
think that changes anything not only what is happening in Gaza if we bring up Gaza for just a moment, the map of Gaza, where it's been go -- we've
seen the war going for over a year. Does that change first of all the operations in Gaza because we've seen what, 60 percent or so of -- we've
got 70 percent of people displaced, we've seen a lot of these buildings completely destroyed. How do you think the IDF will proceed from here on
end?
CLARKE: You're right. This is a pivotal moment. This was what everyone was talking about that the Israelis needed yeah if there was an off-ramp to the
ongoing conflict. Personally, I don't see it. I think Netanyahu is all in. I think he's going to stay in Gaza. I warned about this in a February
foreign affairs piece, what I called the slippery slope or mission creep. He's being pressured by some far-right ministers to "finish the job" and
we're likely going to see some more destruction here.
Hamas is totally decimated. But again, if you look at the collateral damage, if you look at the civilian casualties, that's going to give
younger people, hardliners, a chance to regroup. This story is far from over.
SOARES: So, what exactly are they going after? Because we heard, and you would have heard this, our viewers have heard this, that -- and the U.S.
have said this repeatedly that Sinwar was the main person stopping the ceasefire and bringing the hostages home, 101 hostages. Now that he's gone,
what are they going after?
CLARKE: They're basically going after small bands of guerrilla fighters that are hiding in rubble, they're hiding in the tunnel still. They're
coming out, they're conducting ambushes. They're attempting to conduct small arms attacks. The Israelis want to totally eliminate any Hamas
presence. It's just really not possible when you think about an organization with tens of thousands of people.
SOARES: You don't think that's achievable?
CLARKE: Likely not, particularly when you look at the devastation there, when you look at the way that Gaza has basically been destroyed. It's
laying the groundwork for the future generation, whether you want to call that Hamas 2.0, 3.0, etcetera. Likely the same thing in Lebanon with
Hezbollah.
SOARES: Go back to the whole idea, you can't kill off an ideology, right?
CLARKE: Precisely.
SOARES: And we don't know at this -- at this -- at this point who would take over from Yahya Sinwar. So, this is Gaza, but this is not of course
the only wall that they are facing, right? If we go back to our first map, you know, they -- Israel talks about the ring of fire around them or the
access of resistance.
CLARKE: Right, exactly.
SOARES: So, you have Gaza, you've got Hamas in Palestine, in Gaza, and then you have Hezbollah in Lebanon, and we'll talk about Iran in just a second.
How do you see this going with Hezbollah? Because we heard from President Biden today hinting at the fact that that might be more difficult than
actually Gaza ending this.
[14:35:27]
CLARKE: It will be. Look, we have to admit from a military standpoint, I think most people including myself are surprised at how systematically the
Israelis have been able to dismantle Hezbollah. But this is part of the social fabric of Lebanon. This isn't a group that's going to be defeated.
They've been there since the 1980s. There's new generations coming up through the ranks. And it's also what I like -- I often call Iran's crown
jewel in the broader axis of resistance. They're going to put the resources necessary to rebuild it. You've also got these other groups on the
periphery, the Houthis in Yemen.
SOARES: The Houthis, yes.
CLARKE: Hostile Shabi or Shia militias in Iraq, groups in Syria. You know, this is really what the Iranians designed as a trip wire to protect
themselves essentially.
SOARES: But how effective, Colin, do you think the IDF and Israel's being at decapitating and debilitating this axis of resistance? They've been very
effective with the decapitation strikes taking out the leaders, even taking out some of the mid-level commanders. But again, this is -- if you think
about the access of resistance, the sum of the parts are greater to or equal than the whole, right? It also includes the Islamic Revolutionary
Guard corpse Quds Forces. There's so many different variables here. It's really difficult if not impossible to decimate the totality.
SOARES: That takes us to Iran.
CLARKE: Right.
SOARES: We are waiting. I think the world is expecting Israel to retaliate. We don't know when. Do you think it will retaliate? How long do you think
you'll take them to retaliate? Because of course we've got the U.S. election in less than three -- in three weeks. And what kind of retaliation
do you think we'll see?
CLARKE: Yes. They're absolutely going to retaliate. That's really kind of the back and forth between Benjamin Netanyahu and the Biden Administration.
What do the targets look like? The United States is trying to dissuade the Israelis from going after any of the nuclear sites. Logistically it's also
difficult if not impossible for them to do that without us assistance.
Given the election coming up, President Biden also doesn't want the Israelis to go after energy infrastructure. So, that leaves military
installation sites and targets. That's probably where they start. They may ratchet up after that.
SOARES: We started in Gaza, and I want to go back to Gaza, if I can bring the back the map back, because we heard -- and you can correct me if I'm
wrong -- from Hezbollah at the beginning that if there was a ceasefire here, then that -- they would -- they would follow through, right?
CLARKE: Right.
SOARES: Are you hopeful there will be one here? And do you think if there is a ceasefire here you know with Biden now calling for this, this is the
moment for to bring hostages home in a ceasefire, that then Netanyahu head those calls and both sides will pull back in Lebanon.
CLARKE: The optimism in me is hopeful because there could be that domino effect of diplomacy where we get a ceasefire, the other axis of resistance
troops which are being badly beaten down at the moment agree to that, and that gives some space to diplomacy. The military analyst, the realist to
me, someone that's been watching the behavior of Netanyahu and his cabinet, thinks it's unlikely. I think he's going to see this as an opportunity to
press the advantage and continue forward.
SOARES: I kind of wish we had some happy news, some optimistic news but it's really concerning picture. When we look, if we go back to the second
map, I'm just get my producer to bring it back. To think how many players there are and how bleak it is, of course, as we waiting for that
retaliation, then who knows whether Iran will retaliate. No, this wasn't the one, but the wider map, but I appreciate it.
Colin, always great to get your insight. Thanks. Come back. Come to London more often.
CLARKE: Absolutely.
SOARES: I appreciate it.
CLARKE: Thank you.
SOARES: Thank you very much.
CLARKE: Thanks so much.
SOARES: Well, the humanitarian in crisis in Gaza continues to deepen by the day with many of course lacking access to food, water, as well as medical
supplies. The director of one of the few functioning hospitals in Northern Gaza describes the situation as catastrophic, saying they're desperate for
aid amid overcrowding, fatigue, and hunger.
And this comes as Israel denies accusations from the World Health Organization that it's blocking medical specialists from entering Gaza. The
U.S. continues to apply pressure to Israel on this issue. The White House said on Thursday it expects to see progress after the U.S. recently warned
Israel if you -- if you remember, it must allow humanitarian aid into Gaza or risk losing military assistance.
And still to come on the show tonight, shock and sadness as family friends as well as fans of Liam Payne. Investigators are piecing together what led
to the star performer's fatal fall. We have the latest just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:42:33]
SOARES: Well, there's heartbreak as well as devastation as mourners remember former One Direction star Liam Payne. And 31-year-old Payne died
on Wednesday after falling from the third floor of a hotel in Buenos Aires. Officials are piecing together what happened, but they say substances were
seized from Payne's hotel room and that he may not have been fully conscious when he fell.
Anna Stewart is joining us from London with more. So, Anna, what are we hearing from authorities in Buenos Aires.
ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, investigations are ongoing at this stage. A lot of questions about what happened in the hours prior to Liam
falling from this balcony, and as you say, whether or not he was conscious. Prosecutors are saying that from the shape of his body and the injuries
that he had that perhaps he was semiconscious or even fully unconscious.
Toxicology results of course aren't in yet, but there were lots of substances found there. And we know from Liam himself from interviews past
that he had some substance abuse problems as well as mental health issues. So, all of this being pieced together. This investigation is ongoing. But
of course, plenty of witnesses at that hotel, so there's a lot coming through the media in terms of who saw what.
SOARES: And we've seen as we hear the picture -- see the pictures now outpouring of love and grief as well from so many, including band members,
girlfriends, and people who knew him. What has been the reaction? What comments have we seen?
STEWART: You mentioned the band members. And really this is how people are resonating with this news. People saw Liam growing up. You know, he first -
-
SOARES: Yes, we grew up to that.
STEWART: He was X Factor when he was 14 years old. People wrote the successes, the huge meteoric rise to fame. And the brothers as they all
call each other at the moment all giving their own statements. Also Simon Cowell who of course co-created the band, a very long statement from him.
He mentions how Liam never forgot the fans. He really cared about them. And he again says I always thought of the five of you in the band as brothers.
There will perhaps be questions about children growing up with this sort of fame, this sort of spotlight. Liam actually said himself in an interview
once that in those years where the fame almost became too much, when they were on tour, he would almost be locked in his room because that was the
most secure way to keep them and he would have a party of one.
[14:45:00]
SOARES: Has Simon Cowell addressed this? Talk to the industry and whether the industry is addressing this because he was so young when he started.
There was so much attention. And also, the social media can be so cruel.
STEWART: So cruel and in many ways we're always seeing that today as people post theories on social media about what happened. But yes, I think you're
right. There aren't -- there isn't a huge amount being addressed right now. I think the news is too fresh and the grief is being processed. But I think
there are questions to be had about children and teenagers growing up in the spotlight like this with security concerns, having to restrict their
movements, their lives. And I think those questions will have to be answered.
SOARES: Very quickly. Have we heard from the girlfriend?
STEWART: We have literally just got a statement through from Kate Cassidy who was actually with Liam. She left two days from Argentina before this
happened. So, she was out there with him. Instagram, the holiday, she says I want you to know I loved you unconditionally and completely. I will
continue to love you for the rest of my life. And she's asked for some privacy while she processes this.
SOARES: And these are pictures coming toward us live outside the hotel in Buenos Aires. As you can see candles, we've seen a crowd of people,
mourners, many of times singing. Tears flowing as well. Lots of pictures and messages remembering of course Liam Payne.
Anna, I appreciate it. Thank you very much.
And still to come tonight, some Christian nationalists are fighting to put Donald Trump back in the White House, but some religious leaders are
warning he's a danger to democracy as well as the church. We'll explain next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, turning now to an exclusive look at ever-increasing confluence of religion and politics, with some preachers pushing that
Donald Trump is God's chosen leader. Our Donie O'Sullivan has a story for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have to take God and put him back into the very moral fabric of this country. Otherwise, we will continue to see the decay.
Just like Rome, Rome fell and so will America.
SEAN FEUCHT, CHRISTIAN SINGER AND TRUMP SUPPORTER: They said why are you going to all these Battleground States because I said it's not just a
Battleground politically, it's a Battleground in the spirit.
O'SULLIVAN: Do you think Trump was sent from God?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do. I do.
O'SULLIVAN: Tell me more about that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was divine intervention. God calls people and they're not perfect people. So, he has to call someone that's going to take
a stand. And that's what Trump is doing. He is fulfilling his calling.
[14:50:11]
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): It's a few weeks before election day and Christian singer, preacher, and Trump supporter Sean Feucht is here outside the North
Carolina state capitol.
FEUCHT: We're going to plead the blood over the capitol.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Feucht didn't mention Trump's name at this event at all, but the political undertones were very clear.
FEUCHT: We plead the blood of Jesus. Your blood speaks a better word than whatever is happening inside that building.
O'SULLIVAN: You're traveling to state capital.
FEUCHT: Yes.
O'SULLIVAN: Just tell us the significance of that.
FEUCHT: It feels like it's more acceptable a lot of times in capitals to have a drag queen -- a drag queen reading to kids rather than Christians
worshiping. And so, my heart is like hey, let's empower people in the church to understand the significance of what happens in that building.
Really, we're in many ways putting the politicians on notice in that building. Hey, the church is alive. We're aware. And you know, there's --
there are things that we're going to stand for and things that we're going to stand against.
O'SULLIVAN: There's no official religion of this country, you would agree?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The religion that this country was based on is Christianity. I mean, for anyone to go and dispute that, they're completely
ignorant and blind.
O'SULLIVAN: But you believe in freedom of religion.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yes.
O'SULLIVAN: People can be --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People can be of different face and practice as they wish, but this is a Christian country and this is what it was founded on.
And that is what makes America so phenomenally great.
O'SULLIVAN: What does that mean though? Let's ask that question. What does it mean America is a Christian country?
BEN MARSH, PASTOR: We have a constitution that is rooted in liberal democracy. We don't arrive at the American Constitution with just the
Bible, unless you're buying a trump Bible which already has the American Constitution in it.
This was the flag that went into the Senate when the doors were broken.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): I first met Pastor Ben Marsh almost four years ago.
MARSH: The Christian flag.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): After I saw this sermon that was posted online where he explains the role of Christianity in January 6.
MARSH: They thought they were doing the work of God because pastors and leaders have lied to them.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Marsh says equating Christianity and American patriotism the way some of the Trump movement do is dangerous.
MARSH: It can create a cult-like attitude towards the leaders that are there because they're no longer just, oh, that's the right guy, I like his
policies. Now it's oh, Jesus has chosen that person. So, we have to follow that person to wherever they go.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): What Pastor Marsh is describing is Christian Nationalism.
FEUCHT: I believe that's a term that's been weaponized to kind of try to put Christians into a corner, right, where we don't exercise our faith in
the public square.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): But Pastor Marsh disagrees. He's worried that Christian Nationalism could lead to more violence.
MARSH: We are in a time when political violence is just kind of the air that we're breathing. And people are so afraid it comes back to fear. So,
Trump supporters looking at Democrats, if they win, they're going to commit all these atrocities. You have Christian leaders that are saying they're
going to lock you up, they're going to take away your pulpits, just rampant lies.
DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Promoting the God Bless the USA Bible.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Far from distancing himself from Christian Nationalism, Trump has embraced it, even selling a $60.00 Bible complete
with the founding documents.
MARSH: You brought me a Trump Bible, God Bless the USA. And then we say the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. And then all of a
sudden you have the Declaration of Independence? What's the implication there, Donie? That government has been set in place to enact the will of
Christ somehow? Honestly, it breaks my heart.
O'SULLIVAN: What about to people who say you're overreacting? I love my country. I'm a Christian. I love the Bible. I love the founding documents.
What's so bad about putting them together in one book?
MARSH: As a local pastor with my local church, I think what's so bad about this not just this Bible but the whole movement is it is enticing people to
do things that really aren't Christian that make them feel like they're doing something that's Christian. And that's ultimately the problem.
All this partisan nonsense is that it's all designed to make people think that they're doing something for Jesus when they're really not. They're
doing something for Trump. And look, they're going to do something for whoever replaces Trump.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Donie O'Sullivan there reporting a fascinating piece.
Well, if your love affair with carbs have you feeling guilty, don't. It's probably in your genes. A new study published in the journal science
suggests ancient humans like to chow down on starchy foods just supposed to just hunks of meat. Researchers found this out by analyzing bacteria stuck
in teeth.
[14:55:09]
Scientists found multiple copies of a gene that enables humans to digest starch more easily, suggesting that homo sapiens had a taste for the good
stuff thousands of years ago. And that kind of explains maybe why I love pasta so much. There it is. That's my excuse.
And in case you missed it, we want to bring you some of the eye-catching views of this week's super moon, when the moon appears of course bigger
because it's closer to the Eart than usual due to elliptical orbit. And here's a time lapse of the Moon passing by New York's Statue of Liberty.
Have a look at that, absolutely stunning. The October Lunar Spectacle is the closest Super Moon of the year. It's also known as The Hunters Moon
named for early hunters who benefited from the extra light as they gathered food for the long winter ahead. No doubt some carbs were involved there
too.
That does it for us. Thanks very much for your company. Do stay right here. "NEWSROOM" with Jim Sciutto is up next. Have a wonderful weekend. I shall
see you on Monday. Bye-bye.
END
