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Isa Soares Tonight
Israel-Hezbollah Ceasefire in Effect; How Could Lebanon Ceasefire Impact Gaza; Thanksgiving Celebration, Travel Headache; Record Thanksgiving Travel Season in U.S.; Preparations for Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. Aired 2:00-3p ET
Aired November 27, 2024 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, cautious optimism in the initial hours
of a ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah as Lebanese residents return home, Israelis in the north are apprehensive. Plus, Trump turns up the heat
on tariffs as Mexico warns the move will cost hundreds of thousands of U.S. jobs.
And my book club, Isa's Book Club is back. We are speaking with bestselling author Jodi Picoult about her brand new novel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JODI PICOULT, AMERICAN WRITER: And I write about controversies that I'm usually not living, and this is one I live every day. What does it mean to
be a woman judged differently than a man? I cannot tell you how often being a woman writer means being pigeonholed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: You do not want to miss that interview a bit later this hour. But first, there is celebration relief as well as guarded optimism in the first
few hours of a ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon. Smiles, hugs as well as cheers as thousands of people poured into Beirut. You can
see there and its surrounding suburbs looking to return to their homes and begin what they hope will be a new chapter in their lives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're overwhelmed with joy seeing the joy of people and hearing the car horns. There's been destruction. People have had to leave
their houses and houses have been destroyed, but we're used to it as southern people. Even if our homes have been destroyed, we stay with our
heads held high, thanks to the resistance and Hezbollah.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Even for those whose houses are still standing, rebuilding will be a monumental task following more than a year of hostilities between Israel
and Hezbollah. In another step toward the return of -- to normalcy, really. Schools across Lebanon are expected to reopen next week, that is according
to the country's national news agency.
The Lebanese army, meantime, is beefing up its presence in the south as part of the ceasefire agreement. Under the terms of the 60-day truce,
Israeli ground forces must withdraw from Lebanese territory, while Hezbollah fighters have to retreat about 40 kilometers, that's roughly 25
miles from the Israel-Lebanon border.
And despite the truce, the IDF is ramping up a warning, not allowing anyone to move south of the Litani River. And those living on the other side of
the border have also seen their lives turned upside down by the fighting. Our Jeremy Diamond went to one northern Israeli town to talk to residents
now that a ceasefire is in place.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (on camera): The last time I was here, the Israeli military told me I had just three minutes to get in
and out, that's because the Lebanese border is right across those concrete barriers on that hillside. Hezbollah sitting right across the border.
But now, we are just hours into this ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah, which is intended to bring calm and peace to this region. But
the residents here in northern Israel, in this town of Shtula, are extremely distrustful of this ceasefire. They don't believe that it is
actually, truly making them safer.
That's because they fear that this threat of anti-tank missiles which wrought the destruction on this house right here, just several months ago,
they fear that, that threat still very much exists, that Hezbollah will be able to come back, re-infiltrate southern Lebanon and ultimately pose a
threat to these communities once again.
The Israeli government insists that it will act unilaterally against Hezbollah should Hezbollah violate that ceasefire. But we are just hours
into it. And for now, this fragile peace has a lot of tests to endure.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Indeed, Jeremy Diamond. Then we go to Nic Robertson who is with us from Jerusalem. And Nic, let me pick up where Jeremy just left off there in
the north. Some of the impetus, I believe, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, of this war, at least Netanyahu's argument for fighting against
Hezbollah was to return those 60,000 Israeli residents back to their homes as Jeremy just outlined there.
But many clearly there, as we heard hesitant to do so. Does then -- does this make less of a strategic victory for Netanyahu? I mean, how is the
ceasefire deal playing out where you are?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, certainly, there is that real sense in the north where Jeremy is, that the people just don't
have a high degree of faith in it because it looks too much like the 2006 ceasefire.
[14:05:00]
And they don't feel, therefore, that Hezbollah will be kept away from the border because they don't think that the U.N. will be strong enough or the
Lebanese army will be strong enough. What we're hearing from people here is, yes, they are happy that you know, that one of the wars Israel is
fighting has sort of come to an end.
It has taken a toll and caused 46 -- the lives of 46 Israeli troops inside of Lebanon and the lives of Israeli civilians and troops inside of --
inside of the country, 84 in total. The very premise on which the Prime Minister really increased the fight against Hezbollah, remembering the
night before the uptick in the -- in the airstrikes into Lebanon, at Hezbollah targets.
There was a vote in the Knesset in the -- in Prime Minister Netanyahu's cabinet here, and that was to include the northern border in their war
aims. And that was solely to get back those 60,000 people back into their homes. So, I don't think the political victory, if you will, that Prime
Minister Netanyahu, perhaps might have hoped to have realized immediately.
That's not happening at the moment, but you know, I think he will be rewarded, you know, in popularity for ending the war there. But there are
so many other pieces to the puzzle of course, like how Israel got into the war with Hamas in the first place. That's really a cloud hanging over the
Prime Minister's head.
There are court cases against him due to start next week. There are many things that shape opinion about him, but I don't think the -- stopping the
war with Hezbollah right now is going to -- is going to win a lot of extra favor if you will.
SOARES: And one of the reasons, from what we heard from him, what? Twenty four hours or so ago from Prime Minister Netanyahu for the ceasefire, and
the ceasefire now, Nic, according to Netanyahu, was to focus on the Iranian threat. You and I spoke about this yesterday. Today, though, we have heard
from Iran's Foreign Ministry who say quote, "I'm just going to read here, "the Palestinian and Lebanese resistance is more determined than ever." He
also had this to say. Have a listen, Nic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBAS ARAGHCHI, FOREIGN MINISTER, IRAN: Well, if the Israeli regime wants to have more, concentrate on Iran, they can try it. They have tried it in
the past, they know our capabilities. They know how we can defend ourselves. But I have to emphasize that, contrary to Israelis, we don't
want escalation in the region. We don't want war -- of course, we are prepared for a war, even a full-scale war. But this is not our wish. This
is not our choice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: So, we don't want escalation in the region. We don't want war. What then does this ceasefire mean for Hezbollah's main sponsor here, Iran?
And what is Israel's strategy with those words we heard from Netanyahu in the last 24 hours, Nic?
ROBERTSON: Yes, look, I don't think the Israelis -- any Israeli politicians or the public, frankly, take Iranian politicians words at their
face value. Hezbollah is just one of Iran's many proxies in the region. Hamas is another, that also is close to defeat. But look at the Houthis who
are heavily supported and built up really by Iran and having massive disruption to international shipping, and their statement after the --
after Hezbollah agreed to a ceasefire with Israel, unlike Hamas' statement, the Houthis essentially said, well, we're going to carry on with our fight.
So, I think that's the sort of prism that Prime Minister Netanyahu is going to look at Iran, and that they -- he will believe that they will rebuild
Hezbollah. He has said that they will -- Israel will stop them doing that if they see any missiles resupplied to Hezbollah, then Israel will strike -
- will strike at those, even if they weren't used, just being transited into Lebanon for Hezbollah.
But I think where the Prime Minister is going on this issue of Iran, it certainly is a recognition that, President-elect Donald Trump will be in
the White House soon. And I think Prime Minister Netanyahu, for his sort of more regional defense, if you will, and Iran as the principal enemy there,
as he sees, will find himself better aligned with perhaps the policies towards Iran of Donald Trump.
And I think he's looking towards that at the moment. But in terms of, any sort of immediate effects on the ground, I don't think we're going to see
immediate effects.
[14:10:00]
I think the Prime Minister is looking forward, you know, politically looking forward to Donald Trump being in the White House.
SOARES: Yes, indeed. That is very clear there. Certainly, the relationship is far stronger than with the current administration. Nic, as always,
appreciate it. And right now, we're going to take you live to Beirut where I'm joined now by Dr. Saleh El Machnouk, who is a Non-Resident Fellow at
the Middle East Institute. Dr. Saleh, welcome to the show. We have been seeing -- we've seen there --
SALEH EL MACHNOUK, NON-RESIDENT FELLOW, MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: Thank you - -
SOARES: Just at the top of the show of pretty much jubilation on the streets of Beirut, many people returning home. You know, not sure what
they're returning to, given, of course, the level of destruction. The Lebanese army, meanwhile, is kind of urging people to delay this. So, just
give us a sense of the mood on the ground and what you make of this ceasefire deal?
EL MACHNOUK: So, the mood is a mix of jubilation, surely, because of the end of combat on the one hand. But it is also one of immense grief because
of the amount of death and destruction brought about by this war. But I think essentially, the mood is one of extremely cautious optimism.
Lebanese modern history is infamous for an exasperating repeat of mistakes. This is a war that we've seen in one way, shape or form. In 1978 and 1982,
in 1993, 1996, 2006 and 2024. So, the real question to be asked today is what is being done to ensure that this is the last war between the militant
faction operating in Lebanon and Israel. And we cannot allow the mistakes of 2006 specifically to be repeated. I remind you, Isa --
SOARES: Yes --
EL MACHNOUK: That in 2006, Hezbollah agreed to U.N. Security Council 1701, within a couple of years it had undermined UNIFIL through a series of
bombings, one of which killed five Spanish peacekeepers after which UNIFIL retreated to its barracks. In 2008, it orchestrated a military takeover of
the Lebanese government, undermining the Lebanese political establishment and co-opting it.
And since then, it built its military infrastructure again in south Lebanon, eventually leading to the war that we witnessed this year. So, I
think what's essential this time --
SOARES: Yes --
EL MACHNOUK: Is for the international community to remain steadfast, determined and committed to ensure we do not witness a repeat of the
overthrow of 17 -- U.N. Security Council resolution 1701, which happened over the past decade.
SOARES: Yes, it certainly is fragile. A lot of this will depend, as you say, Saleh, on the -- on the enforcement of this ceasefire agreement. Let's
talk about Hezbollah you mentioned there. Look, it's certainly been weakened and its losses have been profound as we imagine here. But in the
same way that as we've heard in the last 24 hours from Prime Minister Netanyahu, that Israel is agreeing to a deal to allow the IDF to kind of
regroup and re-arm, it would also allow Hezbollah to do the same.
So, what does Hezbollah get out of this? Do you think it has made peace with this, with this ceasefire?
EL MACHNOUK: Oh, absolutely not. I think what we've seen today is Hezbollah making a tactical retreat mainly because the Iranians want to
preserve a strategic asset in Lebanon. But in their mindset, they live to fight another day. Just today, during the Lebanese government meeting today
at noon, Hezbollah ministers were already objecting to the role of the Lebanese army in the south.
They even objected to the presence of the Lebanese army commander in the cabinet meeting. Hezbollah is infamous for overturning past agreements. And
what we have today, Isa, in Lebanon, we don't have similarly to Bosnia for example. Troops that are not under U.N. command in large number that can
enforce the peace.
So, the peace really depends on three main factors. One is the Lebanese army, which needs immense support from the international community, both
political, financial and military. It depends on overturning the hostage mindset of UNIFIL that they've been subjected to for the past decade in
making sure that UNIFIL can do its job and has enough international support to do its job.
And third, and most importantly, as you've seen, which I'm sure you've read the text of the agreement, so much of the ability to enforce the agreement
depends on the political will of the Lebanese government.
[14:15:00]
SOARES: Yes --
EL MACHNOUK: Unless there is enough effort to ensure that the Lebanese political establishment is not beholden to Hezbollah as it is now, and as
it has been for the past decade. Then the Lebanese government will not ensure that Lebanon is compliant with this agreement, and it will only be a
matter of time before we're back to --
SOARES: To square one --
EL MACHNOUK: Another round of conflict with devastating consequences for Lebanon.
SOARES: Let's -- let me pick on the last point, because I think it's -- this is certainly interesting. This is clearly, Saleh, a moment for the
Lebanese government to kind of re-establish control of all of the country's territory. But, you know, Lebanon hasn't had a head of state for over two
years.
And I think the World Bank has said in the last few years -- in the last few weeks, estimates the damage to Lebanon, to be around $8.5 billion in
damage and losses. So, at a political level, given the vacuum, given the pressures from Hezbollah, what will be the biggest challenges? How do we
change -- how do we change the power balance here to be in favor of the political power of Lebanon?
EL MACHNOUK: So, we need to understand some context here. For the past decade, Hezbollah has been able to co-opt a large segment of the political
class --
SOARES: Yes --
EL MACHNOUK: In a sort of -- in a sort of deal whereby the political class was able to hold power, engage in large-scale corruption, which led to the
complete breakdown of the Lebanese economy. And in return for allowing that the Lebanese political class has given Hezbollah a carte blanche in
operating both inside and outside Lebanon.
This has been at the detriment of the political will of the Lebanese people as expressed in the elections of 2022. So, basically, what needs to happen
is the international community needs not enforce a political establishment, but it needs to allow the democratic political --
SOARES: Yes --
EL MACHNOUK: Process to go through -- to go through and as need be. And if it is allowed to operate as it should, then the Lebanese parliamentarians
will elect a head of state that is both willing and able to play a constructive role in enforcing this deal. And then they will nominate a
Prime Minister that can also play a constructive role in enforcing this deal.
Because unless you have a Lebanese President and a Lebanese Prime Minister and cabinet ministers that are genuinely committed to this --
SOARES: Yes --
EL MACHNOUK: Deal, not co-opted by Hezbollah, it will be a matter of years, if not months that we will see a return of hostilities along the
Lebanese-Israeli border.
SOARES: The next 60 days will be crucial, a lot, of course, depends on the political pressures at home and the international pressures of what can be
achieved here. Doctor, I really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us. Dr. Saleh El Machnouk, thank you doctor --
EL MACHNOUK: Thank you for having me --
SOARES: Great insight, thank you. And still to come tonight, Mexico's report -- Mexico's response to Donald Trump's threats of tariffs. We'll
tell you what the country is saying about the impact on jobs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PICOULT: But the Stratfordians who believe it had to be Shakespeare usually say, well, women were not writing at that time. That is not true.
Absence of evidence in this case is not evidence --
SOARES: Yes --
PICOULT: Of absence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Literary powerhouse Jodi Picoult takes on William Shakespeare, writing about the theories that another author could have penned some of
the bard's famous works. That's in my club after the show.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:20:00]
SOARES: Donald Trump's transition team says several of his cabinet picks have been the target of death threats being investigated by law
enforcement. Among them Elise Stefanik, chosen by Trump to serve as U.N. ambassador and Lee Zeldin, his choice to lead the Environmental Protection
Agency.
Let's get more details now from our Steve Contorno in West Palm Beach, Florida. Just -- Steve, just what are you hearing about this, very
concerning indeed. What are you hearing from the FBI as well?
STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: From what we understand, these threats took place on Tuesday night through Wednesday morning targeting several members
of Trump's administration. Now, we reached out to the Trump campaign to ask who those individuals were. And so far, they have not said specifically who
was targeted.
Elise Stefanik, who you mentioned and Lee Zeldin both released statements on their own, acknowledging that they were the targets of these attacks.
But we do understand there are other individuals who were targeted as well with these death threats, bomb threats as well as swatting attempts, which
is an act where someone calls police claiming they are seeing some sort of illegal activity, a shooting threat inside of a residence, causing a police
presence potentially, them showing up in a threatening manner can be very scary.
And unfortunately, has been happening more and more lately with political opponents as the targets. However, the FBI so far has said that they --
while they are taking these threats seriously, there is nothing to suspect that anyone was in immediate danger, and they have been investigating these
incidents one by one.
And so far, none of them have proven to be an actual threat to these individuals. But we are still waiting to get more answers from the Trump
campaign and from authorities as well.
SOARES: And I know you'll stay across this for us. Steve Contorno there, thanks very much, Steve. Well, meanwhile, Donald Trump has announced a key
pick for his administration, the future of trade with the United States. If confirmed by the Senate, lawyer Jamieson Greer will act as the next U.S.
trade representative and will be tasked with implementing Trump's plan to increase tariffs on trade partners.
Greer had a key -- had key roles in the previous Trump administration and its implementation of tariffs. So, clearly on board when it comes to
tariffs with the President-elect. And during the presidential campaign, Donald Trump frequently spoke about imposing high tariffs on Chinese goods.
Now, he's making it clear that neighbors such as Canada and Mexico may also be included.
The President-elect is proposing a 25 percent tariff on goods from those two nations. But earlier today, Mexico estimated that 400,000 jobs in the
U.S. will be affected if this happens. Canada's Prime Minister, meantime, is also speaking out about Trump's proposal and its potential impact.
Justin Trudeau says he spoke to Trump about his concerns -- trade on ways their two countries can tackle shared issues together. No details on what
actually came out of that. Joining us now is the President of the Canadian Automotive Parts and Manufacturers Association, Flavio Volpe.
Flavio, welcome to the show, just the man, I know you've been very busy in the past 24 hours, so, I appreciate you being with us. Look, there's always
a possibility, Flavio, and I think you -- we've been here before, that perhaps this doesn't come to pass, right? That this is only a negotiating
tactic. But assuming it does, let's take him at his word for the time being.
What impact would this have on the automotive industry in Canada? I mean, how disastrous would this be?
[14:25:00]
FLAVIO VOLPE, PRESIDENT, CANADIAN AUTOMOTIVE PARTS & MANUFACTURERS' ASSOCIATION: Well, the Canadian automotive industry is highlighted by 2
million vehicles made in a year, but a million of those by American companies. And 50 percent of the parts that go into those cars from
American companies, and 55 percent of the raw materials from American sources. So, it would have a catastrophic impact if it hypothetically -- if
it wasn't hypothetical and it --
SOARES: Yes --
VOLPE: And it went through. But the impact would be immediate on the biggest American automakers and suppliers. Which is why I think we're -- we
should not take the number at face value, but we should take the principle that he wants to pressurize trade negotiations with his closest partners,
probably as an example for the rest of the world very early on.
SOARES: So, give us a sense, I want to dig deeper in this, because I was looking at some of the automotive industry statistics, and in terms of, you
know, 1.9 million vehicles are assembled in Canada, and, you know, contributes around 19 percent -- $19 to Canada's GDP -- $90 million, I'm
sure, and has a revenue of over $100 billion.
So, just talk us through and walk us through, if you could, Flavio here, the supply chain and how integrated this is for like -- from the likes of
raw materials to components?
VOLPE: So, since 1965, Canada-U.S. have had a free trade agreement on automotive. It was called the auto pact, then turned into the free trade
agreement, and then the NAFTA to include Mexico. What happened is that the industry grew, the assemblers set up in Canada to take advantage of
proximity to market for the 2 million cars that Canadians now buy a year.
But also everything from major complex assemblies like motors right down to wheels and tires were made everywhere around the continent. The automotive
business is a proximity business, meaning you make cars in a -- in a locale. The biggest, most important pieces usually come from within one
hour concentric circles of supply.
And so, the American investments have been all over North America including on the north side of the border here, and there's 156 plants employing
50,000 Americans in the U.S., owned by Canadian suppliers.
SOARES: Yes --
VOLPE: You know, when we look at the sector and we talk about integration, I always use the analogy that it's an omelet. It's very difficult after
it's done to separate the yolks from the whites.
SOARES: Yes --
VOLPE: And together we're the most competitive and compelling automotive market in the world. If the Americans are going to compete with China,
probably the worst thing they could do is cut off American interests north of the border.
SOARES: And I suspect that, you know, this will not only be costly and maybe you know, potentially, possibly, financially ruinous for automakers,
but also expensive for consumers, too, right? For Americans.
VOLPE: Yes, definitely. Look, in the hypothetical that there's any tariff that gets -- it gets borne by the consumer, that ultimately receives the
goods. So, if a -- if a Trump supporter in Texas would like a pickup truck made just north of Toronto, yesterday it would have been $60,000, tomorrow,
$75,000.
I'm sure he's not going to be eager to wear his red hat around for that. We've been down this path before during the original NAFTA re-negotiations
in Trump's first term. What we --
SOARES: Yes --
VOLPE: Did with humility was to demonstrate how closely-aligned we are. What can we tweak? We're your best partner in competing with the rest of
the world. And we grounded down to an agreement that works for both sides of the border because it was very clear then that the American interest is
the Canadian interest in automotive.
And better to fight the market -- the players in markets like China that will try to win market share by selling at a loss, rather than your partner
in making a profit.
SOARES: We shall find out whether this is just bluster or whether he goes ahead with this. Flavio, really appreciate you taking the time to speak to
us. Thank you.
VOLPE: Thank you for having me.
SOARES: Three American citizens detained for years in China are giving thanks today for their freedom. U.S. officials tell CNN that Kai Li, Mark
Swidan and John Leung have all been released in a prisoner swap between Washington and Beijing. A U.S. official says the Biden administration
worked to free the Americans in exchange for unidentified Chinese nationals.
And the Americans expect to be reunited with their families soon. North Korea is expanding a weapons plant that makes missiles used by Russia
against Ukraine. This is according to research by the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies, a U.S.-based think-tank. New satellite images
indicate North Korea is adding to the current facility and adding a second building for final assemblies.
You can see there, they also appear to be building housing for workers. Ukrainian military officials say about a third of recent Russian ballistic
missile attacks used North Korean weapons.
And still to come tonight a fragile truce seems to be holding in Lebanon. But what could it mean for the conflict in Gaza? That conversation is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: More on our top story this hour, the ceasefire deal now in effect between Israel and Hezbollah. Nearly 24 hours after it was announced, early
signs suggest that a 60-day pause in fighting between Israel and Hezbollah appears to be holding. Thousands of Lebanese people, you can see there, are
already making their way back home. Though for many, the neighborhoods they'll be returning to will look very different, of course, after months
of war.
Negotiators are hoping that the temporary ceasefire could be the basis of a more lasting truce. And many are now questioning how this deal in Lebanon
could impact on the other war, in Gaza, where Israel, of course, is still at war with Hamas.
Countries including Turkey and Jordan are also urging the International Community to keep up the pressure on Israel to re-enter negotiations. And
according to a senior U.S. official, the White House believes that Israel- Hezbollah deal could be a game changer in the efforts to get a deal between Israel and Hamas.
Speaking to my colleague, John Berman, U.S. National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan spoke to the opportunity that this moment presents. This is what
he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Since the beginning of this conflict, Hezbollah linked its fight against Israel to the fight that Hamas
was having with Israel from Gaza. And it said, we won't stop until the war in Gaza ends. That link has now been broken, which means Hamas is isolated.
Hamas is now under pressure. And all eyes, not just from the U.S. and Israel, but the rest of the world, are going to turn to Hamas.
[14:35:00]
And so, there is now newfound opportunity and possibility to drive forward a ceasefire and hostage deal in Gaza. But I'm not going to stand here and
make any predictions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Newfound opportunity. Jennifer Hansler is following the developments from the U.S. State Department. And, Jennifer, we not just
heard from Sullivan there, but also President Biden just in the last 24 hours, pretty much suggesting that this deal gives new hope, right, to
ending Israel's other war, and that is with Hamas. Does this administration, you know, in the fact that we've got 60 plus days left off
President Biden's term in office, does it believe it can achieve those goals given that President Biden has tried and failed before?
JENNIFER HANSLER, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT REPORTER: Well, they're certainly trying to project this optimism that they can push forward these efforts
that have been going on for months and months, Isa. But I think a big question here is whether that is actually realistic.
We have seen these efforts stall out almost entirely over the past several months. There have been moments where there seemed to be a movement forward
on these initiatives in the past, only for those to be dashed. And, you know, the rhetoric we are hearing for the administration putting this all
Hamas, you and I both know that there have been cases where it has been Hamas that has been the deterrent to this deal.
But there have been also cases where Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu also was putting forward opposition to any sort of plan to bring
the war to an end in Gaza. There are reports that his military advisers have pushed him in the past to accept a deal and he has refused to bring an
end to the war in Gaza. So, there are questions of whether that motivation has changed, whether the Israeli prime minister is ready to bring an end to
the military operations there in the Strip.
Now, in terms of this newfound push to get a deal moving forward, we don't have a lot of details of what that will actually look like. President Biden
said this would involve a number of countries who have been involved in the past, Qatar and Egypt, for example, but he also said Turkey could play a
role here.
Now, Isa, we know a number of Hamas officials seem to have relocated to Turkey after Qatar sort of expelled them from the country. So, there is a
chance that Istanbul could play -- Ankara, excuse me, could play a role here. But it remains to be seen at what level the negotiations could take
place when there will actually be meetings in the past. We've seen Bill Burns lead the negotiations there. We have no sense of when or if he will
be traveling to the region.
So, there are all a lot of questions that remain about whether this optimism can actually produce any results here, Isa.
SOARES: Yes. And in the meantime, Hamas is committed to cooperating with quote, "any efforts to achieve a ceasefire in Gaza." Jennifer, appreciate
it. Thank you very much.
And still to come tonight, history is written by those who hold the pen. My chat with author Jodi Picoult. She is challenging what we know about one of
history's greatest playwrights, William Shakespeare. That discussion after this break.
And still to come, Americans can't wait for those Thanksgiving meals with family and friends tomorrow, but just getting there could be the biggest
challenge of them all. We'll explain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:40:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Joining us today on the Book Club is Jodi Picoult, the author "By Any Other Name." Jodi, welcome to our book club.
JODI PICOULT, AUTHOR, "BY ANY OTHER NAME": Thank you.
SOARES: I wonder whether you can talk, first of all, before we get into the nitty-gritty, about the crux of the story.
PICOULT: Absolutely.
SOARES: Because it's centered on two women.
PICOULT: So, the book is about how women have been written out of history by the men who were holding the pen. It follows two women. The first in
1581 is Amelia Bassano. She is a real-life historical figure, a female playwright, who couldn't put her work in front of the public because she
was a female playwright. So, she pays a man for the use of his name, and that man's name happens to be William Shakespeare.
And it's also about her fictional descendant, Melina Greene, who also is a female playwright, in 2024, and who has written a play about her ancestor's
life. And she's having a lot of trouble getting it to Broadway because Broadway is a very male dominated world. And the question is whether she,
too, is going to write herself out of history in order to see her words on a stage.
SOARES: How little things have changed over that period.
PICOULT: Well, that's probably why it feels somber.
SOARES: Right? That's exactly why it feels somber.
PICOULT: Yes.
SOARES: And I wonder whether where you got your idea from this, because -- you know, did you always think about -- did you know about Amelia? How did
you come across her?
PICOULT: So, actually, this started years ago, because I was an English major, and I fell in love with the Shakespearean plays, right? I love the
language, but even more than that, I absolutely love the female characters. You've got Portia and Rosalind and Beatrice and Kate, and they're so three
dimensional.
SOARES: Macbeth. One of my favorites.
PICOULT: Lady Macbeth is amazing, right? And so, you know, I loved it because nobody else was writing women like that.
SOARES: Yes.
PICOULT: And we had a professor who said, you know, maybe for five minutes, there's a question about the authorship of the Shakespeare plays.
And all of us laughed because who else but Shakespeare could possibly have written them.
SOARES: Yes.
PICOULT: And I didn't think about it for years until I read an article in The Atlantic by Elizabeth Winkler. And something she said stopped me in my
tracks, which was that Shakespeare had two daughters who survived infancy. He taught neither of them to read or write. They signed with a mark. And I
just went, no, I don't believe it.
SOARES: You didn't buy that?
PICOULT: I don't. I do not believe that that man would have written those incredibly three-dimensional female characters. I had never heard of Amelia
Bassano. And I wound up doing a deep dive into her history based on what Elizabeth Winkler was saying as having her as a potential author candidate.
And what I found was that almost seamlessly, all of Amelia's life plugs the gaps that for years scholars have twisted themselves in knots to explain
about Shakespeare's life and how he might have still been able to write the plays without education or experience or the means to do so.
SOARES: And it's not so foreign to many of us who -- you know, if we're English majors, like a lot of us are, we study this. We looked at the
complexity of these characters that you were saying, the Lady Macbeths, how can he write these complex and multilayered characters, right?
PICOULT: It's also really important to point out that the Stratfordians who believe it had to be Shakespeare usually say, well, women were not
writing at that time. That is not true. Absence of evidence in this case is not evidence of absence.
SOARES: Yes.
PICOULT: In fact, as we start to have more female Shakespearean scholars and Elizabethan scholars, what they have actually found are women's
writings of the time. And many of them were letters that women wrote to their unborn children because you expected to die in childbirth. You would
buy your own shroud and you would write a letter to your unborn child. And it had in it all of this wisdom that you wanted to pass on when you weren't
here.
And from these few extant letters, we know women were writing, women had something to say, women knew that if you put something in writing, it was
worthy. Now, it's the men who decided that those letters were not important to preserve.
SOARES: Silenced, yet again. And it's interesting, of course, Amelia, takes us all the way back to Shakespear and Shakespearean times, but of
course, Melina, who's a playwright, still experiences those same frustrations, and I wonder whether you see yourself in her or you --
whether you've gone through similar experiences very much this day and age.
PICOULT: Very much so. So, in addition to writing novels, I've also, for the past 10 years, been writing for the Broadway world. And the first
adaptation that I ever did was actually an adaptation of my own novel, "Between the Lines." Worked on it for eight years as a co-librettist to
write the musical.
[14:45:00]
And I was shocked actually at how male dominated that world was. Everything Melina is told about the coming of age of a female story that she writes
fictionally, I was told to my face about "Between the Lines," which is also a coming-of-age story of a young girl.
It's too small. It's too emotional. Nobody wants to see a girl's coming of age on the stage. I also realized after I finished the book that I've made
the same decision that Amelia and Melina have made. When I was working on "Between the Lines," my first show, my producer said that she didn't want
my name on the libretto, even though I was the co-librettist, because she felt it would be seen as a vanity project, because I'd also written the
source material.
So, when we finally made it off Broadway in 2022, there, the program came out and I was listed for writing the novel, but not for writing the
libretto. I would make that decision again just to get there because it's so hard to thread that needle.
SOARES: Yes. Do you find that, as an author and a female author, that you are pigeonholed, that you come up against huge barriers, and (INAUDIBLE)?
PICOULT: Yes, yes.
SOARES: I mean --
PICOULT: And you know, I'm a successful author. I've been doing this for 35 years. But I think -- I've been calling this the book of my heart. If
you want to know who I am, this is the book of mine you should read.
SOARES: And you've written 29 books, right, in something like 32 years or 35 years, right?
PICOULT: YEs. But I write about controversies that I'm usually not living. And this is one I live every day. What does it mean to be a woman judged
differently than a man? I cannot tell you how often being a woman writer means being pigeonholed.
If I tell someone I'm a writer, their first comment is, oh, you write children's books. And if I say no, they say romance, women's fiction? I
don't even know what women's fiction is.
SOARES: I was going to say, what is women's fiction?
PICOULT: Why can't we have fiction? Right. To me, the idea that in 2024 we are still pigeonholing women into the places where we think they should fit
is insane.
SOARES: It is scary to think that you're still facing this, and so many women, and important point out, we are white, privileged.
PICOULT: Exactly.
SOARES: Imagine --
PICOULT: Imagine what happens when you're a woman of color.
SOARES: Of color, and the changes that go to that.
PICOULT: Absolutely.
SOARES: And it's -- you know, and given what we've seen in the United States, it shouldn't surprise us as well. And I'm thinking here of some of
the fights that women in the United States have on their hands right now that have had the last years or so, and what I'm thinking in the rolling
back of Roe v. Wade.
PICOULT: Absolutely.
SOARES: Did you think that you would get to this point where women would have to fight for their own reproductive rights, for a decision that they
can make about their own bodies?
PICOULT: I think that being in a woman -- being a woman right now in America is a very strange place to be because we are standing at a
crossroads. We are watching our reproductive rights being stripped away. We are losing our voice. It feels an awful lot like Elizabethan England
sometimes.
SOARES: Very somber at the same time. Very worrying indeed. Jodi, really appreciate you being with us.
PICOULT: My pleasure.
SOARES: I'm just going to give you this pen. If you do is the honor of signing your book.
PICOULT: I would love to.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Lovely. And thanks to Jodi Picoult for that fantastic conversation. And coming up on -- next on our Book Club, I'll speak to
acclaimed American author Rumaan Alam about his new book "Entitlement." Quite a different conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUMAAN ALAM, AUTHOR, "ENTITLEMENT": The book sort of looks at what happens when you have an intimate relationship with lots of money and what that can
do to the psyche.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: You do not want to miss that. We'll play that for you on tomorrow's show. And still to come tonight, it could be a record setting
Thanksgiving on Thursday as millions of Americans hit the road. But the weather could dampen the holiday. What to expect for Turkey Day travel,
coming up.
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[14:50:00]
SOARES: Well, Thanksgiving in the U.S. is just one day away, and this could be the busiest U.S. travel season ever. The American Automobile
Association, or AAA, estimates records are being broken right now. And it says nearly 80 million people are traveling, with more than 70 million
people on the road over the coming days.
It is a big Thanksgiving Day for air travel too. The Transportation Security Administration expects to screen more than 18 million people. But
passengers could face some major weather delays. Two storms are set to hammer the Midwest as well as the East Coast.
Let's get more really on Thanksgiving travel. Whitney Wild has been monitoring the scenes there, Chicago O'Hare Airport. You're still looking
quite chirpy, which I suspect is a good sign.
WHITNEY WILD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A very good sign. That is the general mood here at O'Hare. It has been so smooth for -- especially for a
Thanksgiving weekend, but like really for any time, this has been a dream.
So, let me walk you through what we know and how good this is. I think it puts it all into context. So, what we know is that at least a million and a
half people are going to come through O'Hare and Midway. Those are the two Chicago area airports. That -- those numbers are starting yesterday and
ending Monday. They're thinking the busiest day is going to be Sunday when the Chicago Airport Authority says that there are going to be around
254,000 people coming through O'Hare alone.
When you look nationwide, 18 million people are expected to fly over this holiday weekend. Fortunately, luckily, whatever, however you want to
explain it, the weather today is perfect. So, there are very few air flight problems up here.
So, let me take you to the big board. That's the proof that things are going very well here. Look at this. On time, on time, boarding, on time, on
time, on time. I don't see any cancellations. I don't see very few delays here.
Nationwide, there have been only a few dozen cancellations so far. So, things are looking very, very good. That weather system not causing any
problems yet. We're keeping a watch for tomorrow. But so far so good here. Back to you.
SOARES: And give me a sense of -- and I know you've been speaking to a lot of people at the airport, how people are preparing, of course, to set off.
Talk us through the routine for some of the travelers on this major travel day, turkey day travel.
WILD: Oh, yes. If you're ready for turkey day travel, you have a system. And the system is this, get to the airport early, make sure the kids have
books, snacks, whatever device they have to have, make sure they have it. And then, also, just keep a good attitude and make sure that they're
checking the TSA website to make sure that they're abiding by the TSA rules, because sometimes what happens is you forget, is it four ounces, is
it six ounces, what can I bring, and that causes problems when you get to security, who is happy to remind you what the rules are.
So, just a refresher. At TSA, 3.4 ounces for liquids, aerosols, gels, it has to be in a one-quart zipper, and there's only one clear bag per person.
So, those are the rules. If you stick to them, everything will be fine. Back to you.
SOARES: Very, very quick question, because I just saw graphics. It says, check what food you can take. What food do people actually take on these
holidays? What are we talking about here?
WILD: Well, our one John Berman told me today that he once took a Brussels sprouts stock, like the long thing of Brussels sprouts. So, it is a range.
I'm telling you, it is a range. I went to interview a woman years ago who had taken pumpkin -- like pumpkin pie cans. I think -- look, it's
Thanksgiving. OK. It's game day. Everybody wants to put forth their best effort. So, they're bringing whatever they need to do to deliver on the
Super Bowl of food holidays.
[14:55:00]
SOARES: Oh, my God. John Berman is so keen, isn't he? I'm glad he -- I hope he got through with that. Thanks very much. Appreciate it.
Now, one of the most anticipated holiday events is the annual, as you know, Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. The balloons are being inflated and put in
place. The live entertainment is rehearsing, and parade visitors are hoping it won't be a soggy day. This year's annual march through New York will
feature 17 giant character balloons, 15 novelty and heritage inflatables, 22 floats, 11 marching bands, 10 performance groups, and 700 clowns. Star
just as Kylie Minogue and Jennifer Hudson will be performing for you.
Now, they won't be home for Thanksgiving, but that's not stopping astronauts on board the International Space Station from celebrating. They
have delivered a holiday message and shared what they'll be having for their Thanksgiving meal, which includes Brussels sprouts, butternut squash,
apples, and spice, and even smoked turkey.
The group celebrating this year includes Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams who were stranded, remember, on the ISS after the detective Boeing
Starliner spacecraft had to return to Earth without them. But everything -- is just perspective here, everything, all that food is in pouches. Imagine
that. Enjoy your Thanksgiving.
That does it for us. Thanks very much for your company. Do stay right here. Newsroom with Jim Sciutto is up next. I'll see you tomorrow.
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