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Isa Soares Tonight
South Korean Lawmakers Vote To Block Martial Law; Soldiers Hold Back Crowds Outside South Korea's National Assembly After Martial Law Declaration; U.S. Says It was Not Notified Of South Korea's Martial Law Declaration In Advance; President Yoon Drops Martial Law Order. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired December 03, 2024 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: And we begin this hour with breaking news. Shocked, outraged and plunged into political uncertainty. South
Koreans are waking up to a very different country today, one that is now under martial law. A very good evening everyone. Hours ago, lawmakers voted
to block President Yoon Suk Yeol's decree, calling it invalid.
And here you can see some of the dramatic images from overnight in Seoul, where protesters -- you could hear them erupted just outside the National
Assembly. Later, dozens of troops that had entered the main parliamentary building began to withdraw after the vote.
And under South Korean law, the President is obliged to comply. But at this hour, it remains unclear what effect the vote will have on the declaration.
We haven't heard from the President now coming into the fifth hour, and just taking a few steps back, it began with a late night TV address to the
nation as you can see there on Tuesday night.
President Yoon accused the main South Korean opposition party of sympathizing with the north, and he said his declaration was necessary, he
said to protect the country from what he called the, quote, "danger of North Korean communist forces". Our Mike Valerio is in Seoul with some of
the crowds gathered just outside South Korea's National Assembly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE VALERIO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're here in the crowd, and there are two military vehicles that are trying to get out of here. We're just a few
blocks away from the National Assembly. There were some soldiers that were saying their military vehicles are trying to leave the area and get back to
their base.
Protesters of course, voicing their huge outrage and dismay at this moment. Local police with shields around us and we're going to -- we're going to
move a couple of steps away -- oh, and look at this one over here, unbelievable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Paula Hancocks joins us now live from Abu Dhabi. She spent more than a decade leading CNN's coverage of the Korean Peninsula and the
surrounding region. Paula, good to see you. It's 4 O'clock or so in the morning now in South Korea, we have yet to hear from the President.
But what is clear is just how many people right around the world including in South Korea are just outraged, surprised, dismayed at what is unfolding.
Give us a sense of what you understand is happening this hour.
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Isa, at this time we understand that some lawmakers are still in the National Assembly in the
early hours of the morning. They have voted to block this martial law decree that President Yoon Suk Yeol announced in the middle of the night
effectively.
But they're not leaving at this point. There is a concern about what comes next. Now, we know that there are still protesters surrounding the National
Assembly as well. Those who are very much against this martial law declaration. There are many in South Korea who in -- the older generation,
who remember martial law?
They remember military dictatorships in South Korea. It was really only in the 1980s where democracy became the norm in South Korea. And there had
been a belief and understanding that democracy had flourished within the country. So, this has come as a huge shock for many within South Korea that
this could happen.
I mean, the background to it is that there has been a political stalemate. We heard that or we have seen that the democratic party who is in
opposition, who controls the parliament, they have the majority in parliament according to President Yoon, has not allowed him to do his job.
He said that they are shameless pro-north, anti-state forces.
This is what he said within his statement, pointing out that he is calling this martial law for to act against communist forces, to act against these
-- the fact that they have paralyzed state affairs. So, on the face of it, and I should point out, there could be more to this than we understand at
this point.
[14:05:00]
We only know what we have been told by the President. But on the face of it, Isa, it looks as though President Yoon Suk Yeol has decided to use a
military solution if you like, to deal with a political stalemate.
SOARES: Yes, because he talked also not just about communist forces, because he cited a North Korean threat, anti-state forces, but he didn't
actually expand on that. And of course, we haven't heard from him since, Paula, but we have heard in the last few moments from the State Department
-- deputy State Department spokesman saying the U.S. wants the situation in South Korea to quote, "to be resolved peacefully in accordance with the
rule of law."
And as you were talking, we saw lawmakers still inside, of course, parliament there. They voted to overturn martial law, defying, of course,
the President's ruling. I suppose the question this hour, Paula, is how will the President -- I mean, will the President back down at this point?
And where does this leave the military? Will they follow through here?
HANCOCKS: We haven't heard anybody speak publicly in support of President Yoon at this point. We know that 190 lawmakers out of 300 voted to block
this declaration, but only 190 lawmakers were present at the time. It was the middle of the night that this was -- this vote was called, so, it was a
unanimous decision.
There were members of President Yoon's own party, the leader of his own party were against what he had done. So, he will certainly be feeling
pressure now, whether this was a high-stakes gamble that has not paid off, we simply don't know at this point. We don't know his exact rationale for
doing this.
But the parliament has voted that this should not go ahead. The President, under South Korean law, we understand, should comply with this. But there
are some complications within this law as to whether or not that could be the case. So, we are waiting to hear from President Yoon. He is obviously a
President embattled at this point.
He is not a popular President, his approval ratings are in the 20 percent at this point and have been there for some time. And he has criticized the
opposition for paralyzing the government. We know it is a hugely polarized country at this point. The parliamentary system has been at a stalemate,
has not been very much that either side has been able to do this because of the political difference --
SOARES: Paula, apologies for interrupt. Paula, apologies to interrupt right now. I want to go to Pentagon, they're just talking about South Korea.
Let's listen in.
PATRICK RYDER, PRESS SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, UNITED STATES: Writ- large is in contact with the Republic of Korea and of course, we'll keep you updated on that front.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have there been any changes to U.S. force posture with the number of troops we have in --
RYDER: There have been no changes to my knowledge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And have you seen any indications North Korea is poised or trying or willing to take advantage of the situation?
RYDER: Of course, we're closely monitoring the situation, but I'm not aware of any forced posture changes, Jennifer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: General Ryder, can you assure the American people that U.S. troops in Syria are secure and defended tonight?
RYDER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And who do you think -- can you explain a little bit more about the HTS. Are the Syrian democratic forces joining them in sort
of potentially overthrowing Assad in these areas? Are they operating separately? Who is behind this group? Do you describe them as an al Qaeda
affiliate?
RYDER: Yes, so, you know, I'll answer your question, but I'll say up front for SDS operations, I'd refer you to them. But I can tell you from what
I've seen, two separate things. You've got HTS, HTS rather operating up near Aleppo, moving southwards toward Hama, this group is essentially a
spinoff of Al-Nusra Front, which was an al Qaeda spin-off.
And so again, a recognized terrorist group and part of the morass, so-to- speak, of many different groups that have been fighting the Assad regime for several years now. The SDF, of course, do have personnel that are up in
that area of northwest Syria, but predominantly down in eastern and northeastern Syria. Our focus has been on working with the SDF rather, as
it relates to countering ISIS, and that continues to be our focus.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you seeing Iranian-backed groups come across from Iraq? Are you concerned about again, a flood of foreign fighters coming in
from either Lebanon or Iraq?
RYDER: Jennifer, I haven't seen anything at this point to indicate anything large scale like that. I have seen some press reports speculating that
that's a potential -- you know, there is the potential for that, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that that's the case at this point. So,
OK, Joseph(ph).
[14:10:00]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, just to stay on Syria. Yesterday, the SDF, U.S.- backed SDF seized several villages and that result from Iranian-backed or Syrian government forces, and then the strikes that you just mentioned,
U.S. strikes earlier today. I just want to ask what kind of coordination is taking place between the U.S. and SDF as it pertains to potentially taking
over these areas that were -- potentially taking over areas that were previous under the control of either the Syrian government or Iranian-
backed militias.
RYDER: Yes, as I mentioned to Jennifer, I'd refer you to the SDF to talk about their operations. Joseph(ph), MSS Euphrates is, of course, down in
that region. And our focus is on protecting our forces and also preserving our efforts to conduct counter ISIS operations in partnership with the SDF.
But in terms of anything that the SDF is doing, I'd refer you to them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just one more. Yesterday, you mentioned that a department in Lebanon -- the department was working to help ensure Lebanese
Armed Forces had the training capacity and strategy development of basically how they'll implement the ceasefire. That was agreed.
You also said that the department was working with partners to help support the LAF and their ability to provide security and implement the ceasefire
as well. Can you put a finer point on that and explain what exactly you all are doing from this department to help in those areas?
RYDER: Yes, so recognizing that we're in the early days of the ceasefire, right? And the fact that a lot of work remains in terms of putting the
mechanisms into place as far as enabling the LAF to be able to provide that security. The way that I would characterize this is almost equated to the
security assistance that the U.S. provides in other places, although in this case, it's obviously, you know, some significant challenges.
But what General Jeffers and his team will do is work as part of the country team and with State Department and coordinating with IDF and with
the Lebanese Armed Forces, France and others, to look at what are the needs in terms of training capacity for the LAF, and then also strategy
development in terms of how the LAF can provide security along the southern Lebanon border to essentially fill the void that's been left by Hezbollah
being routed out.
And so, ensuring that there is a force in place that can provide security for the people of Lebanon, but also ensure that the kinds of terrorist
attacks that we've seen in the past from Hezbollah can occur. So, working out of the embassy and coordinating on what those needs are, and then
working with other countries and the inter-agency to help fulfill those needs, if that makes sense.
Again, much more to follow in the days ahead, but that's the basic concept. Thanks. Charlie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How does martial law impact U.S. troops in South Korea?
RYDER: Well, as I mentioned, Charlie, you know, we're continuing to monitor we're in touch with the ROK right now. There has been essentially no impact
on U.S. forces. But again, you know, we'll continue to monitor and we'll keep you updated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are they hunkering down? Is leave being canceled? I mean, if we've got army vehicles on the streets, it's going to affect U.S.
forces.
RYDER: Yes, so, I'd refer you to U.S. forces Korea for much more information. But my understanding is no, they're not. You know, there's --
they've not been put under any type of curfew, but obviously in any of these kinds of situations, you want to make sure that you're paying
attention, that you're checking in with your unit, making sure that there's accountability. But I'm not aware at this point of any significant impact.
But again, we'll continue to monitor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. Can I ask you a question too, about what's happening in Syria? You mentioned an A-10 was used in the previous strikes.
There has been video of --
SOARES: Right, we've been listening there to the Press Secretary for the Department of Defense fielding questions, of course, about the rebel
offensive that we are hearing in Syria, but also, of course, what is happening in South Korea where President Yoon declared martial law. We've
seen lawmakers vetoing that, blocking that now.
Giving some reaction in terms of what this means for U.S. troops in South Korea. There are roughly 28,500 or so, 28,000 U.S. service members
stationed in South Korea. They said there was no changes to posture. They're closely monitoring situation, has no impact. The Press Secretary
said there, on U.S. forces, and as you know so far, no type of curfew.
But they are continuing to monitor this. I want to bring CNN's Natasha Bertrand from the Pentagon. And Natasha, what we have been -- do we have
Natasha with us? Yes, we do. And Natasha, what we have been listening, not just from the Pentagon, but also from the United States is that they are
following -- closely followed the developments out of South Korea but with grave concern.
[14:15:00]
What stood out to you from what you are hearing in terms of what is unfolding at this hour in South Korea? We have, of course, we have yet to
hear from President Yoon.
NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Isa, in our conversations with people here in the building, really what stood out is
just the sheer level of surprise at this --
SOARES: Yes --
BERTRAND: Development. I mean, really, no one saw this coming, especially because the Pentagon, the White House, really the entire Biden
administration for the entire U.S. administration for years now has really held South Korea up as this kind of pillar of democracy in the region, an
ally that the U.S. can really depend on when it comes to, for example, joint military exercises, standing as kind of a bulwark against China and
North Korea.
And so, this has really taken a lot of people by surprise here, and you know, I think that the biggest question now is, you heard Pentagon Press
Secretary Ryder address in the briefing is how this is going to impact the almost 29,000 U.S. service members in South Korea as well as an additional,
you know, 10,000 or so number of contractors, family members of these service members who were there.
You know, is this military, you know, and martial law situation going to impact the way that they operate there? Is the U.S. even going to be able
to continue its joint military exercises with the Koreans knowing that the President is now apparently seeking to weaponize the military for these --
for martial law.
And so, there are just so many questions swirling here that really throw such a wrench in the U.S.-South Korean relationship. And Secretary of
Defense Austin actually hosted Yoon here at the Pentagon recently. And he said something that was very notable that really underscores just how much
this situation has turned everything on its head.
He said that the ROK and the U.S. have a shared vision that is rooted in freedom, democracy and the rule of law. Now, we should note that a senior
State Department official was speaking today in Washington on a different subject about Japan, but still, you know, obviously on regional issues, and
continue to say that the U.S. stands in solidarity, of course, with the Korean people, still is very supportive of South Korea and that the
administration hopes that this political crisis is going to be resolved peacefully.
But for now, just so many unanswered questions. And here in the building --
SOARES: Yes --
BERTRAND: Obviously, people struggling to try to get a handle on it.
SOARES: Certainly, took everyone by surprise. That is for sure, including South Korea's strongest, most -- South Korea's strongest ally. Thanks very
much, Natasha Bertrand there. Well, my next guest is a Professor of International Relations at King's College London and Adjunct fellow with
the Korea Chair at CSIS.
Joining me now in London is Ramon Pacheco Pardo. Ramon, really appreciate you being with us, I'm just seeing news coming in to us that President
Yoon's party, own political party have now urged him to drop martial law orders. So, closely, watching what is unfolding at this hour, it's just 17
minutes past 4:00 or so in the morning.
How do you see this, Ramon then playing out? It's incredibly tense as well as fluid situation, but we have yet to hear from the President.
RAMON PACHECO PARDO, PROFESSOR OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, KING'S COLLEGE LONDON: It is tense. I agree, but as you just pointed out, there is no real
support, even Yoon, President Yoon's party thinks that the situation should be resolved peacefully. The martial law should be lifted and the National
Assembly has voted in this direction.
And I will assume that over the next few hours, the pressure coming from within South Korea, but also from the U.S. for President Yoon to leave the
martial law should have an effect. It should also be said that even the military is not supporting martial law. We have seen the press operating
freely in South Korea, we have seen a vote in the National Assembly, so, not even the military is enforcing the martial law.
SOARES: Do you think then he will relent in the coming hours, not just from pressure at -- you know, from his political party, but from allies right
around the world. But I'm guessing as well from the people of Korea who many of whom seem pretty as we've seen from the scenes outside, pretty
angry and pretty unhappy.
And I know, and you can correct me here, Ramon, that he's pretty unpopular among South Koreans and very low approving rate -- approval ratings.
PARDO: So, his approval rating right now is around 20 percent. It is true that it is very low. It has been very low for many months. And what we have
seen is that not only liberals are opposed to his presidency, we have also seen many conservatives turning their backs against the President, not
necessarily the party, but the President himself.
[14:20:00]
So, I think what we're going to see in the following hours is the pressure that you have been mentioning. I think we're going to see bigger protests
in South Korea like we have seen in the past. And I think we're going to see a huge pressure for the situation really to go back to normal or as
normal as it could be with the lifting of the martial law and the National Assembly continue to play its role, it's a place of debate, sometimes very
heated debate, but that's how it should be resolved --
SOARES: Yes --
PARDO: In that democracy. And that's what liberals and conservatives have been doing for decades as your correspondent mentioned before really since
the late 1980s.
SOARES: And so, Ramon, what happens if he doesn't relent? What happens if he doesn't bow to this pressure? Because are we then facing a
constitutional crisis? What would this mean? How unprecedented would that be?
PARDO: Yes, it would be a constitutional crisis because if we look at the law of the land in South Korea, the President has to follow the vote of the
National Assembly. It would be unprecedented because the last time we saw martial law being decreed in South Korea was during the dictatorial years,
1979, 1980.
This hasn't really happened since the transition to democracy in 1987 and 1988. Hence, what we don't know what can happen if the President doesn't
follow the vote from the National Assembly because we have never been in this situation.
SOARES: And what we don't know, and I was having this conversation with our Paula Hancocks, who was covering the Koreas for some time for us, what we
don't know at this stage, because it wasn't made very clear from President Yoon, is what really forced him, Ramon, to do this? He claimed in his
speech that the opposition party which has the majority in parliament is sympathizing with North Korea.
He spoke about a North Korean threat and anti-state forces. I mean, can you just flesh this out? Do we know what he's referencing here? Is there any
merit to this sort of accusation?
PARDO: I don't think they really have any merit. This is a long-standing accusation from some conservatives in South Korea against some liberals. It
really goes back to the 1950s, 1960s. The idea that they don't really support South Korea itself as a democratic country, that they really
wouldn't be unhappy with North Korea taking over.
I don't think it has any basis today, and I think even within the military, you don't see support for these ideas. You may have seen in the 1960s,
1970s, and never mind in conservative circles. I mean, this is a view that really if you talk to younger and not so young, really South Koreans, they
think it belongs to the past.
In my opinion, President Yoon is frustrated because the National Assembly is controlled by the opposition party. But even as we have seen within his
own party, he has limited support. We see leaders in his own party who really are preparing for the next presidential election in two years time,
two years and a half, which President Yoon cannot run.
So, they're really beefing up their own credentials as the true leaders of the conservative party. And this has been detrimental to President Yoon's
agenda, not only the opposition, but the position of his own party.
SOARES: Right, so, you're not paying much attention to when he talks about communist forces at play.
PARDO: I don't think so. I think --
SOARES: Yes --
PARDO: There's very limited support, as you know, for North --
SOARES: Yes --
PARDO: Korea today in South Korea, and I don't know that many people who really want to go and to transform the country into a communist regime
today.
SOARES: Yes -- no, the reason I asked this, Ramon, is, of course, we have North Korea strengthening ties with Russia in Ukraine, we have a change of
President in the coming months in the United States, I wonder -- and there's a lot we don't know because obviously President Yoon didn't
elaborate on this.
But I just wanted to flesh this out to see if there was some sense, some writing on the wall to these -- to these accusations from the President.
PARDO: I think that what is true is that the growing relationship between Russia and North Korea is worrying --
SOARES: Yes --
PARDO: For South Korea. It's worrying for South Korea certainly, because we know Russia is providing technological support, military support, food aid,
economic support to North Korea. So, this is only going to strengthen the North Korean regime and North Korean military posture vis-a-vis South
Korea, so that's all down.
Of course, we're going to see a change in President in the United States and some in South Korea think that President Trump, when he goes back to
office, he's going to have new meetings with North Korean leader Kim Jong un, and therefore, this could lead to the isolation of South Korea. I don't
think this is a widespread view, but certainly --
SOARES: Yes --
PARDO: There are those in South Korea that are concerned about these developments.
SOARES: Professor Ramon Pacheco Pardo, appreciate you being with us, thank you professor, thank you very much.
PARDO: Thank you.
[14:25:00]
SOARES: We will continue to monitor, of course, the breaking news. And still to come on that tonight, the U.S. President Joe Biden is in the
African nation of Angola, what he's had to say about the situation in South Korea. We'll bring you that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: We return to development in South Korea, which seemed to have caught the White House by surprise. U.S. President Joe Biden is in Angola
on what could be his last international trip. Mr. Biden told reporters just hours ago in Luanda that he was, quote, just getting briefed.
A U.S. National Security Council spokesperson tells CNN, the Biden administration is in contact with South Korea's government and is
monitoring the situation closely, adding that it was not notified in advance. Let's get more on the Biden administration's reaction with senior
White House correspondent M.J. Lee in Washington, Arlette Saenz who's traveling with the President in Angola.
Arlette, let me go to you first. So, seriously concerned is what we've heard, the words we've heard from Biden administration official. What else
are you hearing from the President? Because initially in the last hour or so, or even probably longer, apologies if I've misplaced time. He said he
was just getting briefed. Do we know any more?
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's all that President Biden has said so far of this matter after he had delivered a speech at the
National Museum of Slavery here in Angola, President Biden told reporters he was about to be briefed, but did not offer any other substantive
comments relating to this decision by South Korean President Yoon to declare martial law in his country.
Now, National Security Council spokesperson did say that the U.S. is still working to gather more details of what exactly has happened. But as you
noted, they were caught by surprise by this. They did not receive any type of heads-up from the South Korean government about this situation.
Now, the U.S. government has been in touch with the South Korean government as they're trying to learn more. But it will come as officials are really
trying to determine what this could mean for the South Koreans, but also many Americans. There are more than 28,000 U.S. troops who are currently
stationed in South Korea.
And of course, South Korea is one of the United States closest allies as President Biden himself has really sought to foster that relationship with
the country and with President Yoon. Now, President Biden was briefed on this matter as he was traveling back to his hotel in the motorcade this
evening.
We will see whether he will say anything else or release any type of statement, but it will be interesting to see how the President navigates
this, because South Korea is a very close ally of the U.S.
[14:30:05]
But President Biden has also staked so much of his presidency on the fact that democracy needs to be protected both at home and abroad.
SOARES: Yes, and we'll wait to see, of course, in terms of what kind of pressure, M.J. -- if I bring M.J. into this conversation, the U.S. applies
here because South Korea and the U.S. are strong allies. President Biden has previously praised Yoon -- President Yoon as a great friend. Speak to
their relationship and perhaps to the kind of pressure that may be applied here on South Korea, because we are watching -- we're still waiting to hear
from President Yoon in the fifth hour or so to see whether he will yield, of course, to the vote that we've seen on martial law by lawmakers.
M.J. LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's a great question. How the Biden White House is going to respond, as Arlette was just laying
out there, we've barely heard anything from President Joe Biden on this situation, only confirming that he had been briefed.
The NSC, we know, as Arlette was saying, never got a heads up from Yoon and his government that he was going to be making this shocking move. I do
think it's really important, as you were just saying, to put into context the U.S.-ROK relationship and particularly the Biden-Yoon relationship.
You know, a big part of President Biden's foreign policy work and I guess, ultimately, his legacy is going to be how much effort he has put into and
how much emphasis he has put into improving and strengthening U.S.-Korean relations. The bigger context here, of course, is trying to counter China's
influence in the region. It's actually a part of the reason why the U.S., under President Biden, has seen it as such an important task to improve
South Korean and Japanese relations, obviously a long antagonistic history there between those two countries.
But the Biden administration has basically been of the belief, I'm simplifying a little bit here, that the stronger the ties are between South
Korea and Japan and the U.S. as well, the better chance they have of countering China's growth and influence in the Indo-Pacific region and in
the world overall, and that has meant that President Biden himself has had to have some warm relations and really some warm overtures to Yoon Suk
Yeol, a very unpopular president in South Korea.
When he went to visit Asia for the first time as president back in 2022, South Korea was one of the places he visited, obviously arriving in Seoul
too much fanfare. And then, he was --
SOARES: M.J., apologies to interrupt you because we are seeing some moments of celebration. Can we just -- do we have audio on this video? Because I'm
just seeing on Reuters -- this is according to Reuters, South Korea's Yoon says he will lift martial law after parliament voted to block it. This is
coming in to us from Reuters. I take it is moments of celebration for the protesters who've been out there for several hours. It's 4:30 in the
morning or so in Seoul.
And the timing of this is interesting. M.J., given what you were saying, we were talking about the kind of pressure, perhaps that President Biden would
have been applying to South Korea, a strong ally of the United States. Significant number of U.S. troops on the ground there. Speak to this
moment, because just hours ago, you know, we'd heard from Cedric Leighton, the CNN military analyst, who was talking about how this, if it continue,
it became a constitutional crisis, it would have became -- would have become a dangerous moment because of instability in the region and what
that would do for the Indo-Pacific region and the U.S.'s standpoint in the in terms of projecting power.
LEE: Yes, the celebration there on the streets is clearly because so many people were concerned as they waited for a number of hours to hear anything
from Yoon Suk Yeol after the government basically said, we are not OK with this. They voted to basically overturn the martial law. But the -- how the
process, how the machinations really work is that then the president technically has to respond. And again, for the last few hours, we hadn't
heard a peep from President Yoon.
So, the reporting that you said that was coming in through the wires that Yoon is now saying he will in fact lift martial law, that is going to be
welcome news for the Biden administration, even though, again, we haven't yet heard much of a reaction, a fulsome reaction from the U.S. government.
[14:35:00]
By the way, they also haven't said much about some of the reasons that were cited by President Yoon in the first place for putting in place martial law
overnight, saying, you know, he has to counter North Korean forces and needs to counter anti-state forces. Of course, a lot of folks there on the
ground in the country basically don't believe that. They think that this is about a self, sort of, political survival because he has been under so much
scrutiny. His government, those around him have been under so much scrutiny for allegations of corruption and the like.
I think this is going to be a really interesting and important space to watch, when we do finally get a more fulsome response from the White House
and President Biden. Even if this moment appears to be sort of in the rearview mirror, it is going to have a long legs, and President Biden is
going to have to figure out how he explains this to the American people and to the world that's tuning in and also, how he speaks to an ally, somebody
that he has had relatively warm relations with.
SOARES: Many questions, indeed, at this hour, still. M.J. Lee, as well as Arlette Saenz for us in Luanda, Angola. Thank you very much, ladies.
Appreciate it.
Let me go to Paula Hancocks, who joins us from Abu Dhabi. Of course, as I was saying at the top of the show, Paula knows the region well. She spent
over a decade leading CNN's coverage there. So, Paula, it does seem from what we are hearing that he will lift martial law after, of course,
parliament voted to block it. What more are you hearing?
HANCOCKS: Well, that's the line we have at this point, Isa. We have been waiting for the response from President Yoon Suk Yeol. It's taken a few
hours since that vote took place, a unanimous vote against the call for a martial law decree. Even those on President Yoon's own side, those within
his own political party had voted against it. We'd heard the leader of his own party saying that it shouldn't go ahead and he would try and block it
as well.
So, presumably, President Yoon was looking at the overwhelming response to his declaration. There wasn't one single person that I saw that had spoken
up publicly in favor of it. So, presumably, he has seen that this is the way it had to go.
Now, we did understand that under South Korean law, once the parliament had voted to block that martial law decree, the president was supposed to
accept that and to lift the martial law. Of course, if he hadn't done that, there would be a very different and dangerous situation we would be in. But
according to Reuters, it does appear as though he has dropped that order for martial law.
Now, what, of course, can now happen is any soldiers, if there are any soldiers left on the street, we certainly saw a pullback from the National
Assembly, a number of hours ago, when it came to military presence, but any that are remaining will now be able to go home or to go back to their
barracks.
So, there will be a collective sigh of relief that this is the way that this has materialized, but this hasn't ended. There is going to be -- there
are going to be a number of questions asked of the president as to why this had to happen, why he decided that there should be this martial law decree?
Was there more to it than simply this political stalemate, if you like?
There really have been some very dramatic scenes over recent hours. And, as I say, this certainly isn't the end of it. There could be a huge amount of
political pressure now on the president. Isa.
SOARES: Indeed. Stay with us, Paula. I want to go to Seoul. John Nilsson joins me now live. He's the head of Japan and Korea's program at Cambridge
University's Centre for Geopolitics.
John, appreciate you being with us. We just heard in the last few minutes that President Yoon says he's now going to lift martial law order. This is
not the end of it, as you heard our correspondent Paula Hancock, saying there. I suppose the obvious question that many will be asking is why he
called it in the first place?
JOHN NILSSON-WRIGHT, JAPAN AND KOREAS PROGRAMME, CENTRE FOR GEOPOLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF CAMBRIDGE: Well, I mean, his claim that this was prompted by
threats from North Korea seemed to be extremely hollow. And I think the most plausible explanation is that the president felt cornered with the
National Assembly and the opposition party, the Democratic Party, challenging prosecutors who had been appointed to investigate allegations
of insider trade dealing by his wife, the first lady, impeached by the National Assembly for failing to pursue those investigations seriously as
the opposition claimed.
[14:40:00]
I think President Yoon felt that the political movements by the opposition were limiting his freedom of maneuver. He's badly miscalculated. We've
seen, as your correspondent was pointing out, not only the opposition party, but conservative members denouncing the president for his
unconstitutional action.
And now, of course, public opinion, which has rallied behind the institutions of democratic governance, mindful of the challenge that the
president has posed, will almost certainly go further and call as they have been for the president's resignation, for his impeachment, and possibly a
trial at some point, which will involve the Supreme Court having to rule on the legitimacy of impeachment.
But this is an event that I don't think can be exaggerated in terms of its significance. It was 44 years ago that a president sought to impose martial
law. Since that time, South Korea has moved on, has become a vibrant democratic society, in which ordinary citizens recognize their power to
hold politicians to account.
Remember in 2016, the so-called candlelight demonstrations against then- President Park Geun-hye, a slightly different situation. Now, of course, President Yoon, who had been appointed as a special prosecutor to go after
political corruption has been criticized for the very same crimes that he was investigating in the past.
And this is a very sad end, I would say, to a political career that had looked so promising two and a half years ago. And I think the -- probably
the good news we can take from this is that the democratic process and democratic institutions seem to have been sufficiently resilient to check
this very anti-constitutional illegal action by the president.
SOARES: So, clearly, he -- from what you're saying here, John, he kind of overplayed his hand as he was facing kind of this heavy political weather.
But I mean, was the writing already on the wall? What did you -- as you were following the developments and seeing the political pressure he was
facing, the investigations, the variety of scandals, the low approval ratings? I mean, that is a situation where you enter into dialogue with the
opposition, not calling for this, for martial law. Did that -- I mean, was the writing there? Because it took many people by surprise.
NILSSON-WRIGHT: I mean, this sort of action, of course, is pretty much unprecedented.
SOARES: Yes.
NILSSON-WRIGHT: There's no doubt that the political situation had moved decisively against the president. Not only was he facing, over the last few
weeks, opposition from the opposition party, which has the majority in the National Assembly, but within his own party. There were suggestions that
senior conservative figures were leaking damaging information relating to this corruption, these corruption allegations. And of course, it wasn't
just the first lady, there were others in the president's orbit who had been implicated.
The president himself, it was being argued had overreached, had acted in ways that were seen as unpresidential and potentially illegal. And his
steadily plummeting approval ratings on the back of problems to do with domestic politics, the status of medical doctors, all of this had counted
against him. But it had been assumed that there were ways in which he could compensate for that by being very active on the global stage with
diplomacy. And of course, we saw him recently at the APEC and G20 Summits in Latin America speaking very forcefully about the rule of law and
upholding international principles.
So, it's ironic that he now seems to have violated some of those very principles that are at the heart of democratic politics in his own country.
SOARES: John, I really appreciate you taking the time from your busy schedule to speak to us. I know it's very late in the morning. Thank you
very much. Thank you.
NILSSON-WRIGHT: Pleasure.
SOARES: We're going to take a short break. We'll be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:00]
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. If you are just joining us, this is the scene outside -- in Seoul in South Korea. As you can see, it's almost 5:00
in the morning. Can I just listen?
Earlier, I was told by my producer that they were chanting, this protest in the streets was chanting, lock him up. Those are the chants we're hearing.
In the last few minutes, if you're just joining us, the South Korean president, Yoon Suk Yeol, has said he will lift his martial law order, if
you remember from last five hours or so. That follows parliamentary vote which blocked it basically.
We've seen lawmakers voting against it, but we have seen a country and world pretty much taken by surprise, shocked, and outraged as we saw for
several hours. The political uncertainty and instability that could lead to, of course, martial law. But lawmakers who were able to get into
parliament there, that just -- that image in front of you, voted to block President Yoon's decree. They called it invalid.
And we've seen some dramatic images in the very early hours of this morning as crowds erupted, protests erupted, and the National Assembly, we've seen
troops entering the main parliamentary building. We see the lights on there. And under South Korean law the president was obliged to comply. So,
the president in the last few minutes has complied. He said he will lift his martial law. What we don't know at this stage is whether the president
will address the country and what will this mean for the president. Because as we heard the protesters there in Seoul, they were calling -- they were
chanting, lock him up.
Let's get more from our Paula Hancocks. There's a lot we don't know why he called this decree in the first place. Paula, we had some chants there of
lock him up. I'm wondering, at this stage, whether we're expecting to hear from President Yoon, whether we know whether he would rest the country. And
what will this mean for him? I mean, we're looking at impeachment here as we hear these chants?
HANCOCKS: I mean, it's certainly a possibility. Those protesters that are outside the National Assembly at this point would certainly want that to
happen, and it's -- it has a precedent. We've seen it just several years ago with the former conservative president as well. There were weeks upon
weeks of candlelight vigils, they were called, protests every single Saturday night, every single weekend, all through the winter, trying to get
a president to step down and it worked.
So, the people power in South Korea is quite strong. And I think there will be many, certainly within the Democratic Party, maybe even some within
President Yoon's own party that that would support this kind of call, but we simply don't know at this point. It's speculation.
[14:50:00]
But I was just tallying up the time, Isa. It was only six hours ago, less than six hours ago, that President Yoon declared this martial law. It has
already gone to parliament. So, they have voted to block it unanimously, and President Yoon Suk Yeol has backed down and said that he is now lifting
martial law. That is an incredible amount to happen within such a short amount of time.
But South Korea cannot go back to its reality of just six hours ago. Too much I think has changed to be able to just pick up the pieces and go back
to the political stalemate that we saw within this country. There will be some very serious questions asked now as to why exactly this martial law
decree was issued. And why so quickly that it was voted down, that there are many questions.
SOARES: Yes, South Koreans waking up, of course, for a whole bunch of questions. Of course, we'll -- obviously, we'll keep an eye also on the
stock markets as they open. Let's -- stay with us, Paula. Let me bring in Mike Valerio, who joins us now from Seoul. Do we have Mike? Mike, give us a
sense of what you are seeing, we were hearing, just in the last few minutes, celebrations, but also chants for President Yoon to be locked up.
MIKE VALERIO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. You know, we're a couple of meters away from the National Assembly and you can hear those chants of
locking him up, for him to step down that are echoing across the corridors, like right now, near the National Assembly.
So, just to give you a sense of the tableau, right behind me, you can see it clearly, if you read Korean, impeach and remove Yoon Suk Yeol, is what's
said on the bottom banner. And all of these people here are not going anywhere until they hear from the president about what is going to happen
next and frankly, what he was thinking. There is just such a palpable mood of people being stunned across South Korea of why he did this and what was
his possible exit strategy? Why he thought that, you know, this could possibly succeed?
So, we're seeing people, we're expecting demonstrations to grow and grow through the -- as the sun comes up through the morning hours. I should
note, though, how we got here, you know, Paula may have said this, forgive me, Paula, forever, if you talked about this, just tuning in through our
earpiece. We have a very weak president, Yoon Suk Yeol. Conservative politician, long time prosecutor. And you know, approval ratings have been
hovering in the low 20 percent range. And weekend after weekend, there have been calls and demonstrations emanating throughout Seoul for him to step
down. Scandal after scandal roiling his administration.
So, the thinking among people who we're talking to who inhabit this quarter of the city, Oedo, where the national assembly is found, is did he do this
to potentially quash dissent? Did he do this because he was and is so weak, now weaker beyond imagination, to try to go into a new position of
strength? Completely unclear.
But I think that, you know, in addition, as we look back at the crowd again to those feelings of being so stunned and dismayed, there is absolutely a
sense of anger, a sense that we have been here before in the '80s and earlier ever since the Korean War, you know, military rule back and forth,
that they are not going back, that the people of this nation do not ever want to go back to a time where military rule was the law of the land or
where martial law was the law of the land.
So, we will be waiting to see how the president responds. If he goes on TV. How many days he has left in his term, because his days certainly seem to
be numbered.
SOARES: As a new day then set on South Korea, it's almost 5:00 in the morning there, Mike. I mean, speak to that main question that you have
been, I'm guessing you've been hearing from many of those protesting is, why did he call this? Why did he declare martial law? Did they make --
those you've spoken to on the ground, what did they make of some of the arguments that he was making, you know, the anti-state forces, North Korean
threats? Did they -- what were people telling you?
VALERIO: We can say, objectively speaking, people are befuddled. People are certainly befuddled at the arguments that President Yoon Suk Yeol was
making in his speech. They were very vague. There was no specific elements of pro-North Korea forces in the government trying to subvert the
government or incite rebellion. There were no specific marks of evidence, people have said, who we've run into throughout the evening hours, of anti-
state forces trying to incite rebellion. People say that it's crazy, who we've talked to over the past six hours.
[14:55:00]
So, there -- I think shock, again, is too light a word to describe how people are feeling. What was he thinking? Are -- how people are feeling?
And that certainly is being expressed over loud speakers. And one wonders how much longer President Yoon can stay in power when so many people are
wondering, why did you take us down this route, if very briefly?
SOARES: And we haven't -- of course, we haven't heard from him in something like six hours. Have you heard anything, Mike, whether he will address the
country, whether he will explain his actions here?
VALERIO: We haven't. We haven't heard that, but that is the hope. People are so angry they want to hear why he would do such a thing. But no
concrete developments on if and when he will address the nation again. ' SOARES: Mike Valerio there for us. Appreciate, Mike, very early hours for many there in Seoul. Still large protests, as you can see, in South Korea
as they wait for -- try to get some answers, really, to what has happened and happened very quickly in six hours or so. We'll stay across this
breaking news. Newsroom with my colleague Omar Jimenez is up next. Have a wonderful day.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
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