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Isa Soares Tonight

Serious Political Future Begins To Take Shape After Collapse Of The Assad Regime; Benjamin Netanyahu Takes The Stands In His Own Corruption Trial; Luigi Mangione Yells Outside Courthouse As He Seeks To Fight Extradition To New York On Murder Charges; Syrian Rebels Appoints Mohammed Al-Bashir As Caretaker PM; Restoring Order In Syria; Russia's Influence In The New Syria; U.S. Will Recognize Syrian Govt. That Adheres To Four Key Principles; Wildfire Out Of Control In California. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired December 10, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: Hello, everyone, I'm Bianna Golodryga in for my colleague Isa Soares. Tonight, serious political future

begins to take shape after collapse of the Assad regime. The rebels appoint a caretaker prime minister. We'll have a report from inside Damascus.

Benjamin Netanyahu takes the stands in his own corruption trial, charged with bribery, fraud and breach of trust. The first time a sitting Israeli

Prime Minister is facing criminal charges. And a wildfire burns out of control in southern California. Thousands are forced to flee their homes.

The latest on weather conditions fueling the flames there.

President Bashar al Assad's regime is over, and now Syrian rebels are facing a new challenge deciding how they want to govern the country. And

that includes appointing a caretaker Prime Minister. Mohammad al-Bashir seen here, says that he will oversee the transition for the next three

months.

The rebels announcing they will soon name senior Assad regime officials wanted for torture. The U.S. is not currently reviewing the terrorist

designation of the leading Syrian rebel group, Hayat Tahrir al-Sham, but Washington could change the designation in the future. Meantime, many

Syrians are celebrating Assad's fall from power. CNN's Clarissa Ward gives us a rare look from the capital.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): The first couple of days we were here, the streets were pretty subdued. There was a

lot of anxiety, and today, we're really seeing people are out and they are celebrating. Take a look behind me, all these young people, they are

celebrating.

They are posing for photographs, holding up their babies to show with rebel fighters, and I actually wanted to bring in, I've just been talking here

with this young Syrian woman, Judith(ph). Tell me how this moment feels.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As you can -- is this working?

WARD: Yes, it's working.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As you can see, this is 50 years of silence. This is the action of 50 years. He kept us in the dark. He kept us in the death.

This is the reaction of the Syrian people after 50 years of this regime, of this death, of this darkness. This is the new generation that will come out

to the light now. This is the reaction.

WARD: So, how does it feel for you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For me, as a 25 years old daughter, this is my father and this is my mother. This is -- this is unspeakable reaction. This is me

coming to the light again. It's the rebirth of the Syrian people again.

WARD: Did you ever imagine after --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No --

WARD: Fourteen years?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, for me, it's been 13 years. For my dad, it's been 50 years.

WARD: When you see -- look behind you, you see rebel fighters with their technicals, with their big weapons --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is -- this is victory. This is the -- this is the happiness I have never witnessed before. I've been living 13 years in war,

in death, in darkness. And this is amazing. This is unspeakable actually. This is -- here you can see the birth of freedom. This is absolutely

amazing. This is -- I hope we can do more. This is -- this is only the beginning.

This -- it has to be a mess in the beginning, but I'm sure we can do something more and more in the future.

WARD: Thank you so much, Judith(ph) --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much --

WARD: And it really is sort of wonderful, honestly, to hear that kind of optimism because as I mentioned, those first couple of days, those first

few days, a lot of tension, a lot of anxiety, some chaos and looting in the beginning. Now, that there is a degree of calm and control in the city, you

are seeing people come out and finally, just this outpouring of jubilation after more than 50 years under the totalian(ph) regime -- totalitarian

regime of Bashar al-Assad and Hafez al-Assad, his father before him after 14 years of the most brutal and ugly civil war.

These people want the world to know that Syria is free and is beginning a new chapter.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: Well, as we mentioned, the Syrian rebels are now taking on the difficult task of uniting a fractured country. My next guest is a Senior

Fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, Aaron Zelin joins me live from Washington. Aaron, welcome to the program.

So, let's start with what lies ahead for HTS, for the country as a whole, trying to unite these rival factions. And I want to begin by asking you,

what more do we know about Mohamed al-Bashir? He's the head of now the de facto government going forward as a permanent government is set to be

established in the months ahead.

[14:05:00]

We know he's a rebel-linked government leader who also holds a degree in Sharia law. What should we extrapolate from this move?

AARON ZELIN, SENIOR FELLOW, WASHINGTON INSTITUTE FOR NEAR EAST POLICY: He's essentially the person that was the head of the salvation government, which

is the government that HTS set up for civilian control in Idlib prior to this takeover. He's been the Prime Minister since January this year, so, he

doesn't have a ton of experience in this.

Prior to that, he was one of the ministers related to humanitarian affairs in the government. He does have an engineering degree in addition to Sharia

law. But I think part of it is bolstering the legitimacy of his rule as a civilian leader to do so within this context.

GOLODRYGA: As we've noted for the past week now, it's one thing for rival factions to fight for the same outcome, and that is the ouster of Bashar

al-Assad. It's quite another to govern together in unity, especially when you've got various entities that have a stake in what's happening in Syria

that have different interests in the outcome.

I'm talking about Turkey, I'm talking about the United States specifically here. What will you be watching for going forward in terms of what any

semblance of a government looks like? What do you think al-Jolani is hoping to mirror a future Syrian government after? Is it -- is it a present day

Turkey?

ZELIN: Based off of what we've seen so far, it seems as if they're creating facts on the ground and ignoring sort of the process in the U.N. and other

countries are hoping for in trying to carbon-copy the salvation government model that they created in Idlib over these years, which is essentially run

by a small coterie of men making decisions within the elite over everyone else.

So, the minorities in Idlib, they don't have representation in it and neither do women. So, while they might not be the Assad regime, which is

totalitarian, the way that they ruled Idlib was still authoritarian. And then there's also the question beyond just the western part of Syria, where

HTS is now controlling, but the east, where there continues to be fighting between the Turkish-backed Syrian national army and the U.S.-backed Syrian

Democratic Forces and this potential stability issues there, because the Islamic states still lurks in the background with a low level insurgency.

GOLODRYGA: And we know that the United States has been bombing ISIS positions in the country there over the past several days, Israel has been

bombing weapons depots as well as chemical weapons depots, and then also has re-established a presence on the Golan Heights there in the buffer zone

region and striking at Syria's Naval fleet.

What will you be watching for in the days ahead that gives you any sort of indication that there is more stability in a future Syrian government, as

opposed to a different form of chaos and violence?

ZELIN: I think one of the keys will be to see how the U.S. and Turkey navigates the current fighting between the forces that they each back on

the ground. If they're able to come up with a solution, it would better help stabilize the issue because I think the SDF, which is U.S.-backed,

would be able to cut a deal with HTS.

And then if Turkey is allowing this, then HTS would be able to probably take over the SNA since there are certain factions within the SNA that are

already pro HTS. But a lot of it, I think, will depend on the discussions happening behind the scenes now between Turkey and the United States. And

the hope is that it won't be destabilized because it's important to remember that there are 10,000 male ISIS fighters imprisoned by the SDF in

northeast Syria. So, it could go poorly if there isn't a solution created.

GOLODRYGA: So, when you hear Jake Sullivan will be in the region later this week, obviously this is a lame-duck government for all intents and

purposes, we will have a new administration in just a few weeks time here in the United States. So, we hear from Jake Sullivan this week in the

region, we hear from Secretary of State Blinken stating that at this moment, the United States has not changed its designation of HTS as a

terrorist organization.

But that can change. Then President-elect Trump has already stated that the U.S. should have no presence in Syria. What does that tell you about what

any sort of involvement or influence the United States may have in Syria going forward?

ZELIN: For now, it seems like it's on the outside looking in. Obviously, it maintains a presence through the global coalition to fight ISIS in eastern

Syria. But beyond that, it's not doing too much. We should note that today, a number of Arab countries as well as Italy met with the Political Affairs

Department of HTS, so the U.S. could potentially send messages via its allies from the gulf states in particular.

[14:10:00]

But at this point, it's unlikely that the Biden administration being in -- you know, the last month of its power-rule changed too much, and the

biggest question is whether we'll see a pivot amongst the officials that will be in the future Trump administration, you know, as we saw in his

first term, he tried to withdraw from Syria twice.

But it's important to remember that the Islamic State still lurks in Syria and it's had three times as many attacks this year as it did last year,

highlighting that while it might not be the top news anymore, it could become a bigger problem if it's not stabilized.

GOLODRYGA: All right, Aaron, so, we'll have to leave it there. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us this evening. We appreciate it.

ZELIN: Thanks for having me.

GOLODRYGA: Well, charged with bribery, fraud and breach of trust. Today, Israel's Prime Minister took the stand in a Tel Aviv courtroom, testifying

for hours, Benjamin Netanyahu said that he was astonished by the injustice of being put on trial, and that he was being hounded because of his

security policies.

If he is convicted and loses a potential appeal, he will have to resign. CNN's Jeremy Diamond has more from Tel Aviv.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, this is the first time that a sitting Israeli Prime Minister has taken the stand in his

own defense in a criminal trial. It is an extraordinary moment, not only for the history that is being made, as the Israeli Prime Minister walked

into this courthouse and then began testifying in his own defense.

But also because of the moment at which it comes with Israel facing a multi-front war. That was part of the reason why the Israeli Prime Minister

sought to delay this very moment of testifying in this case unsuccessfully, though, as the judges ultimately ruled that he would have to show up to

testify in his own defense, a process that could take several weeks.

We expect that the Prime Minister will testify as many as three times a week for as long as six hours per day, initially beginning with questions

from his own defense attorneys who have been giving him a lot of running room here to make comments about foreign policy accusations against the

media as he really tries to make his own case.

But then the more serious cross-examination will come from the prosecution. And there are three cases that are involved in the trial that the Prime

Minister has been facing for four years now. They are case 1,000, case 2,000 and case 4,000, all of them effectively boiling down to allegations

of corruption that the Israeli Prime Minister offered favors to wealthy businessmen in exchange for more favorable media coverage or in exchange

for lavish gifts.

Some several $100,000 in champagne bottles, in jewelry and other gifts that these businessmen allegedly provided. Now, the Prime Minister and his

attorneys, of course, maintain that he is innocent, and we have heard the Prime Minister already on the stand making his case, defending himself

against these allegations, insisting that he is innocent. Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: Turning now to the war in Gaza, where an Israeli strike on a residential building has killed at least 25 people. Local authorities say

an entire family, including ten children are among the dead. The strike hit a multi-story building in Beit Hanoun, where displaced families were

sheltering in northern Gaza.

Gaza's civil defense spokesperson said some bodies remain under the rubble. Well, the Middle East is a key focus for the White House during the final

weeks of the Biden administration. Sources say the administration is working closely with officials from the incoming Trump team to secure a

ceasefire and hostage deal to halt the war in Gaza.

Now, it comes in the wake of a recent ceasefire deal between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon. And as the Palestinian Health Ministry says, the

death toll in Gaza is now nearing 45,000. Our Alex Marquardt has more details from Washington D.C.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (on camera): There is a wide range of issues on which President-elect Trump and

President Biden, of course, disagree. But on one thing they do agree that they would like to see a ceasefire in Gaza for the war to end and for those

hostages inside Gaza to come home.

And they would both like to see this happen before Trump is inaugurated on January 20th. My colleagues and I are told from multiple sources that there

is a notable, remarkable degree of coordination between the Trump and the Biden camps, that both are working on this issue hand-in-hand.

It is still being led, we are told, by the White House's Brett McGurk, who is in charge of the Middle East, the CIA Director, Bill Burns. But that on

the Trump side, his future Middle East envoy, Steve Witkoff, has been coordinating with the Biden administration on this ceasefire deal. They

have been communicating and in contact about this ceasefire deal.

Now, after the Hezbollah-Israel ceasefire deal was struck in Lebanon, effectively ending the war in Lebanon, the Biden administration felt that

there was an opening, an opportunity to refocus their efforts on the ceasefire in Gaza. They felt that perhaps if Hamas believed that they were

isolated, that they might be more flexible and agree to a ceasefire.

[14:15:00]

The Biden administration has long felt that Israel has accomplished all that it can militarily inside Gaza. So, they felt that there was an

opportunity there. They have revived those ceasefire talks in Gaza alongside allies Qatar and Egypt, which have been the mediators for the

past year of these talks that really have gone nowhere.

Turkey is also involved in these conversations because Qatar closed the Hamas office in Doha, and several of the Hamas leaders on the negotiating

team went to Turkey. I'm also told that Trump's Middle East envoy, Steve Witkoff, has himself traveled to the region, both to Doha and to Israel,

where he held conversations with senior leaders in which he talked about the war in Gaza and the possibility for these hostages coming home.

Witkoff is in contact as I mentioned with the Biden administration. We've also heard from the National Security adviser for Biden, Jake Sullivan, who

has talked about the coordination with his successor, Congressman Mike Waltz. Now, there was some speculation and some surprise that Trump would

want to see a ceasefire in Gaza before he's inaugurated, the thinking being that he might want to take credit for ending the war and bringing those

hostages home.

I was told by a person who is close to Trump, who is familiar with his thinking, that if a ceasefire is accomplished before January 20th, that he

would still claim some credit for helping push it through, and that, of course, it will fall to him to maintain the ceasefire, and that if he is

successful, he will take credit for doing that as well. Alex Marquardt, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: Our thanks to Alex for the latest developments there. And still to come for us tonight, the suspect in the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO

Brian Thompson. He has now been charged with murder. We'll give you more details. Plus, Pete Hegseth is facing a critical test today in its bid to

become the next Defense Secretary. Just days ago, his hopes appeared to be dashed, but is the tide now turning in the Senate?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: An extradition hearing is getting underway for the suspect in the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. Here, you can see Luigi

Mangione arriving at court in Pennsylvania less than an hour ago, yelling in part, it's completely out-of-touch and an insult to the Intelligence of

the American people.

CNN is working to confirm what else he said. Prosecutors have charged him with one count of murder amongst other offenses. The suspect appears to

have been driven by anger against the health insurance industry.

[14:20:00]

That's according to an NYPD Intelligence report obtained by CNN. It's based on Mangione's three-page handwritten manifesto and his social media posts.

The 26-year-old Ivy League graduate was arrested in Pennsylvania on Monday. Brynn Gingras joins me now to give us more details on the case.

And that was rather startling, Brynn, to see live there as he was being walked into the courtroom from the police car, escorted by those officers,

suddenly getting very agitated and yelling out to reporters.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it took a couple of officers, as you could see, to subdue him and get him into the courthouse. And, Bianna, you

have the court according to our review of that video, you had it almost fully there. But let me read it back to you. We believe he says "it's

completely out-of-touch and an insult to the Intelligence of the American people -- its lived experience."

This is the first time we're really hearing from Luigi Mangione ahead of this extradition hearing. We know that New York requested this extradition

with a warrant earlier this morning, and now he's going to go in front of a judge. We understand he now has a defense attorney who might actually talk

to us after this hearing is completed.

But when he goes in front of this judge, of course, it's -- he will have the option to deny extradition and fight it or he can agree to it. And of

course, then we know that the NYPD marshals are going to be there on the scene, ready to take him to New York to face the charges that were filed

earlier today against him, including that one count of second-degree murder.

And it's possible, if he decides that he -- you know, is going to agree with the extradition, he could come back as early as tonight or maybe even

tomorrow. So, we're waiting to learn more about that. But look, we're not quite sure about that extradition hearing if it started just yet. There

aren't any cams inside the courtroom, so, we're still waiting to hear from our reporter who is inside.

But let me quickly just go over those new charges that he is facing. It is detailed in this complaint, really how investigators in New York were able

to tie Mangione to what they say -- this -- he did in New York, this murder. And it really has a lot to do with the surveillance video that

we've heard from police.

They collected hundreds and hundreds of pictures and video and really scoured through it to try to trace what they say are his steps before and

after the killing. We understand they were able to actually find that he checked into the Upper West Side hostel. According to this report on the

24th of November at night, he actually left that hostel about an hour or so before the murder was committed.

And he also used that fake New Jersey ID, and that really was a strong connection according to this complaint. Because remember, that is the same

ID that he gave to the officers who responded to that McDonald's in Pennsylvania when they got the call from that employee and the customer who

spotted him.

So, a little bit more detail of how police are connecting the dots. And you talked a little bit about motive, that's all still being pieced together as

part of this investigation. But right now, we're just waiting to hear what happens in this extradition hearing, the next steps in this case, and

getting Mangione back here in New York.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, that is the next big step, and whether we'll hear from the New York governor in terms of extraditing him from Pennsylvania right now.

Brynn Gingras, you've been on this story now since it began. Thank you so much --

GINGRAS: Yes --

GOLODRYGA: For your coverage. Well, Donald Trump's pick for Defense Secretary is back on Capitol Hill today, and there are some indications

that his bid to lead the Pentagon could be picking up steam. Pete Hegseth is meeting with Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski, who says she absolutely

plans to address the sexual assault allegations against the former "Fox News" host.

Hegseth denies any wrongdoing. Key Republican Senators including Joni Ernst are signaling that they are open to supporting Hegseth. She called her

conversation with him encouraging. With more from Capitol Hill, here's CNN chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Pete Hegseth's choice to be the next U.S. Defense Secretary, well, that is

getting a much better reception among Republicans now, despite all the allegations of misconduct, things that he has denied about excessive

drinking, about womanizing, about sexual assault.

But despite those denials, he still had a number of concerns from Republican senators, that tide has shifted in some ways because Senator

Joni Ernst, for one, is signaling that she's ready to back the nomination or at least she's getting closer to backing the nomination. Also, Senator

Lindsey Graham, someone who just last week said it would be very difficult to get Hegseth confirmed. Well, now, he's changed his tune.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): The accusations are anonymous. The police report I've read right now, he's in pretty good shape, I think he's very

smart, I actually was with him in Afghanistan when he was doing his duty, I was over there very briefly as a reservist.

[14:25:00]

So, the accusations about mismanaging money and about non-consensual behavior, if they come forward, I will listen to those accusations. But

they have to be credible and they have to be presented in a fashion that Pete can rebut. So, he's much better off this week than he was last week.

RAJU: This all comes as Republicans are dealing with how the nominees for the Justice Department in particular, well, carried out some of Donald

Trump's plans for retaliation, or at least what he said on the campaign trail, including things that he said over the weekend in an interview with

"Meet the Press".

In that interview, he said that members of the January 6th select committee, members of Congress who served on that committee that

investigated the insurrection that happened in the Capitol in 2021, he said that they should go to jail. I asked Republican senators if they agree with

that.

Trump also said in that interview that the January 6th committee members should go to jail. Are you concerned about that comment?

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): You know, that's not something that Congress is going to have anything to do with. So, that's entirely up to the President.

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): I've got to figure out people need to go to jail when they break laws, right? So, if they broke a law, sure, they should go

to jail.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think they broke the law?

TILLIS: I'm not --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm asking you --

TILLIS: I'm not a judge, I'm not an attorney, I'm not an investigator, I'm not a prosecutor. I'm a U.S. senator who has to work on facts. And these

are innuendos. They're not facts.

RAJU: This all comes as Kash Patel who is Donald Trump's choice to be the next FBI director is also on Capitol Hill, making his rounds today, meeting

with key senators. Of course, Donald Trump would have to push out the existing FBI Director Christopher Wray, who has three years left on his

term.

But despite that very controversial move, really a move that breaks with norms in how to deal with the FBI. Despite that, all that, Republicans are

signaling, they're OK with that. And since they control the United States Senate, all he needs is to keep a majority of Republican senators on board.

Majority of the Senate on board, 50 senators, and that seems very possible given the reaction that a lot of Republicans are giving right now to

Donald Trump's even most controversial choices. Manu Raju, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: And still to come for us tonight, the destruction of war can still be seen in parts of Syria. Details ahead on the path available to

Syrian rebels to help rebuild. The world is reacting to new leadership in Syria. We'll take a look at what this means for Bashar al-Assad's biggest

ally and the West.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:30:55]

GOLODRYGA: First, they toppled a dictatorship. Now, Syrian rebels are facing a new challenge, deciding how they want to govern the country.

Mohammed al-Bashir, seen here, has been appointed caretaker prime minister for the next three months. That transition of power coming as Israel

launched airstrikes throughout Syria and deployed ground troops beyond the buffer zone for the first time in 50 years between the two countries.

Meanwhile, the Syrian civil defense, known as the White Helmets, have called for Russia to pressure former Syrian President Bashar al Assad to

reveal the location of secret prisons in Syria.

While many Syrians are celebrating Assad's fall in the streets of Damascus, there is much work to be done to repair what has been lost in this war.

CNN's Jomana Karadsheh is in the suburb of Daraya.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're in Daraya. This is a Damascus suburb. One of the hardest hit areas in Syria by the war. It all started

here as a peaceful uprising in 2011. People took to the streets and peaceful protests. They were met with violent repression that turned into

an armed rebellion and that civil war.

The regime used some of its most horrific tactics in Daraya. It was besieging, bombing, and starving the civilian population and the people of

Daraya into surrender. And you see the scale of destruction here and it's just so hard to imagine what people went through. And speaking to residents

of Daraya, people who had to leave their homes years ago, they say that most of the destruction we're seeing was caused by barrel bombs.

This was used a lot by the regime in different areas. These are crude, unguided munitions where they pack explosives into barrels and just drop

them from the skies. And you can see what this has caused. And you can think back and imagine that there were civilians, that there were women and

children here.

And speaking to people, they say that their sacrifice, all that they went through, is worth it. Because they say, now, they finally have the chance

at handing over a different, a new and a free Syria, they say, to their children. But they say that this is up to the rebel groups and the

different opposition groups right now to ensure that that is what happens.

Jomana Karadsheh, CNN, in Daraya, Syria.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: Well, Bashar al-Assad has been granted asylum in Russia after leaving Syria. Rebels raced into Damascus on Sunday, ending nearly six

decades of his family's rule. So, what influence, if any, will Moscow have in the new Syria? CNN's Fred Pleitgen takes a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (VOICE-OVER): As Syrians embark on a new era after ousting longtime dictator Bashar al-

Assad, Russia fears the era of its massive military footprint in Syria could be coming to an end.

The former commander of Russian forces in Syria and now member of parliament is already warning Russia's leadership not to make concessions.

Any gesture of goodwill in the Middle East is perceived as weakness. Weakness is unacceptable, he says. What should be done in this situation,

he's asked, talk from a position of strength, he answers.

But how much power does Russia still hold in Syria? Kremlin control TV strategizes over what might come next with maps showing Russia's bases in

Syria. A guest acknowledges Moscow was caught off guard again.

Thinking about how it all happened in Syria reminds me about how it all happened in Ukraine in 2014, he says. I want to highlight one universal

lesson for world powers, don't take wishful thinking for reality. When a power is crumbling in days and can't protect itself, this is a verdict.

[14:35:00]

For years, it was the Russian military that kept the Assad regime afloat. Russia's air force pounding rebel groups, its navy firing cruise missiles

at ISIS militants in Eastern Syria. In return, Assad gave Moscow a 49-year lease on both its main airbase near Latakia and a military port in Tartus,

allowing Vladimir Putin to project power throughout the Middle East.

PLEITGEN: The fact that Russia has its military assets in Syria also makes Moscow a key player in the Middle East. But now, the Russians acknowledge

that that status is in jeopardy.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Once a key ally for the Russian leader, Putin now allowed Assad and some of his family members to flee to Moscow. A decision

folks in Moscow told us they support.

We don't abandon our men, he says. He is our man. It was the right decision. He has nowhere to go. He would have been killed.

But even here, Syrians living in Russia telling me they're happy Assad's been ousted.

We will be able to live in calm and peace and be able to safely visit our country, he says. We don't have to worry that someone can throw us in

prison because they don't like what we said. We're happy that the dictatorship is over.

Moscow hopes the end of Assad's rule will not spell the end of its military engagement in the Middle East, while acknowledging it's still too early to

predict.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: Joining me now is CNN Political and National Security Analyst David Sanger. He's also the author of "The New Cold Wars: China's Rise,

Russia's Invasion, and America's Struggle to Defend the West." David, always good to see you, my friend.

So, as we heard from Fred's piece there, it doesn't appear that, at this stage, there is a withdrawal either from the naval base that Russia holds

in the west or the air base. What do you make of that and the fact that many analysts are suggesting that Russia may attempt to at least cooperate

and work with the H -- the T -- the HTS going forward?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Bianna, it's certainly in their interest to do so. As French report suggested, they

had a lease that lasted 49 years, and that is the main naval base that Russia has beyond its own borders, gives it tremendous access in the

Mediterranean.

So, if the Russians believe that they are going to be into 10 or 20 or 30 years of competition, confrontation, maybe something worse with the United

States and with NATO, having that base would be quite critical for them. At the same time, it's strongly in America's interest to make sure that the

Russians are thrown out of there, that the new government gets rid of that lease.

And so, when you saw President-Elect Trump say, you know, the only thing for the U.S. to do right now is stay out, it sort of begs the question,

well, don't we have interests about Russia's presence? And certainly, we have interests about ISIS's presence.

GOLODRYGA: To that exact point, earlier today I interviewed Ksenia Svetlova. She is a former member of the Israeli Knesset. She was born in

Russia, immigrated to Israel, is an expert in the Middle East as well. And I asked her specifically about that point of Donald Trump emphatically

stating over the weekend that it is not in the U.S.'s interest to have any role whatsoever in the conflict in Syria. Here was her response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KSENIA SVETLOVA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ROPES: The only reason why Russia initially was involved in Syria is because of the power vacuum that was

created there since the U.S. was not interested for many reasons that, of course, resonate for, you know, many Americans. The decision to get a

little bit of a distance from this, you know, multiple Middle Eastern crises and wars. But in the end of the day, this is what allowed Russia to

establish its basis there in the first place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: So, David, we're now seeing and getting into news that General Kurilla, the head of Centcom, has met with Kurdish-led SDF forces today as

he was visiting U.S. troops in Syria. But as we're just a month away from a transition into a new administration, what message is this sending? The

message from Trump and now the fact that you have the head of Centcom visiting troops there and Kurdish forces?

SANGER: Well, Mr. Trump's record on this is a little bit wobbly. I mean, the tweet, as you said, suggested we should stay away, but you could

interpret that tweet as stay away from the activity that was happening over the weekend.

[14:40:00]

As president, he was tempted to pull the U.S. forces out of Syria, the ones that are making such a mark against ISIS. But ultimately, decided to keep

them in after the argument was made that this would do us a lot of damage.

You know, I think what you're seeing happen here, Bianna, and you'll see it happened as well in Ukraine and other places, is the struggling to come to

terms with what America first means to Donald Trump. To many of its followers, it means just pull back to America's borders, build up a big

military, we're not going to mess around in the world as long as no one messes with us.

But the point that your last interview was making was that when you do that, you create vacuums and someone's going to fill them. And if the

person that fills them, the country that fills them does not share American values and interests, you could be in for a much larger confrontation

later.

GOLODRYGA: This as we're hearing from administration officials, first Admiral Kirby, saying that the U.S. is not seriously considering delisting

HTS a terror designation. And then, following that, we heard from Secretary of State Blinken saying that the U.S. will recognize and fully support a

new Syrian government chosen by the people that adheres to these four principles, that it should be led to -- by credible, inclusive, and

nonsectarian governance that meets international standards of transparency and fully respects the rights of minorities, facilitates the flow of

humanitarian assistance to all that need -- that in need, prevent Syria from being used as a base for terrorism or opposing a threat to its

neighbors, and ensuring any chemical or biological weapons stockpiles are secured and safely disposed destroyed.

Is that just too lofty of an ambition at this point, given that we have yet to see what sort -- any sort of governance will look like in Syria?

SANGER: Well, it's the right set of long-term goals. It would be hard to argue with any of those goals. But the unease here is no one's really quite

sure what this amalgam of terror groups, former terror groups, rebels is going to look like.

Syria hasn't had a real election in decades. So, it's very hard to understand how you would begin to establish a true, free, and fair

election. And of course, there are many Syrians living overseas, out of the country. Some of those will be flowing back in.

So, while I think that Secretary Blinken's goals, you know, sound right, they're pretty aspirational for the point we're in right now where we don't

even know what kind of government might be formed over the next few weeks, much less a long-term elected government.

GOLODRYGA: Another key player here in the region that has gained quite a bit of leverage and influence over the last week, obviously, is Turkey, a

complicated but ally of the United States, a member of NATO as well. And there are different interests given who Turkey is supporting versus who the

United States is supporting. With Turkey and President Erdogan viewing the Kurds as a top enemy. And as I just noted General Kurilla meeting with

Kurdish rebels as well, who the United States have been supporting. How do you see that dynamic playing out?

SANGER: This is going to be really tricky, because on the one hand, the Turks played a big role in getting rid of Assad, and on that we are in

total accord. On the other hand, they have been bitterly fighting the Kurds. It's the Kurds who the U.S. hires to run the camps in which ISIS

fighters and others are being kept. The U.S. is strongly on the side of the Kurds, as you can see with the visit of General Kurilla today.

So, this is going to be pretty tricky. And it's going to require some pretty deft management. And, you know, made not easier by the fact that

we're in the middle of a transition in which President Trump hasn't even assembled his Middle East team yet.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, no doubt. Of course, very important days at lie ahead as well in the region. David Sanger, thank you so much for joining us.

SANGER: Great to be with you as always.

GOLODRYGA: And still to come for us tonight, a wildfire burns out of control in Southern California, threatening a beach community. We'll bring

you more details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:45:00]

GOLODRYGA: A new episode of our series called "Visionaries" is highlighting trailblazers and leaders across sport, tech, business, and the arts.

Kristine Tompkins spent 20 years at outdoor apparel brand Patagonia before leaving the corporate world behind in favor of the natural one. Chief

Climate Correspondent Bill Weir met up with her in Argentina for a look into the company's origins.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: What is your earliest memory of nature and being sort of drawn to it?

KRISTINE TOMPKINS, PRESIDENT AND CO-FOUNDER, TOMPKINS CONSERVATION: You know, a lot of people think because I grew up on a ranch that this is my

foundation for nature, but you don't think about nature, really. Not in the way that we come to think about it today. But really, it was Yvon Chouinard

in the mid-70s who really began to show me that not only is nature a thing all on its own, but that it's being damaged.

WEIR (voice-over): Yvonne Chouinard, he would co-create a climbing equipment company that later became an outdoor apparel brand in 1973 called

Patagonia. And he put Kris in charge.

WEIR: It's one thing to build a successful outerwear brand or outdoor adventure brand, it's another thing to make people rethink consumerism and

our relationship with the outdoors, which I know is at the soul of what he -- was that what he was trying to build all along?

TOMPKINS: Oh, I think so. I mean, it was just the early '80s when he said, OK, we have to start giving away 1 percent of our profits every year to

environmental groups who typically had a harder time raising money. And within a few years he said, well, wait a second, everybody can hide

profits. So, he said, let's make it 10 percent of our revenue. So, sink or swim, we owed Mother Earth 10 percent of whatever we were selling, and it's

still that way today.

WEIR (voice-over): Kris would spend 20 years as the CEO of Patagonia, from its beginnings in the 1970s to setting a solid foundation in the '80s and

guiding the company through a tumultuous period in the early 1990s.

TOMPKINS: I loved that period because we were in the doghouse with the bankers and we weren't sure if we could really get the company back into a

form and fashion that we had always believed it should be. And I love the stress of that. I love the risk of doing that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[14:50:00]

GOLODRYGA: And you can see more of Kristine Tompkins interview on "Visionaries" this weekend. Still to come tonight, students at one Southern

California university had to shelter in place. We'll have the latest on a wildfire threatening a coastal community.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOLODRYGA: A section of the famous U.S. Pacific Coast Highway is closed just north of Los Angeles. As high winds and low humidity fuel the so-

called Franklin Fire in the coastal community of Malibu. This infrared video showing the large number of heat signatures in the area, according to

firefighters. At one point, students at nearby university had to shelter in place. CNN's Chief Climate Correspondent Bill Weir reports this fire has an

unusual characteristic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WEIR: When it comes to total acreage burned in California, this year has been pretty much on average, but the speed of these fires is something to

behold. Off the charts. And the Franklin Fire, the latest example of that, exploding from just a couple hundred acres in the wee hours to thousands of

acres hours later.

At one point, it was consuming about a football field every 15 seconds as it rushed into the hills above Pepperdine University there in Malibu,

California. 800 students were sheltering in place in the wee hours. That shelter order has now been lifted as the flames move past. But that campus

hardened by fire over the years, they have lakes and a sprinkler system, fireproof construction around the campus there, and they know they don't

want hundreds of students scattering into the canyons when a fire is underway, driving over charged hoses and whatnot. So, that is the safest

place. Now, that order has been lifted.

The concern is for residents in the hills as this fire moves up towards the San Gabriel Mountains. These rapidly moving fires, the first one we saw

back in July, the Park Fire, moving so quickly. And then, there was the bridge and the line fire down to San Diego. The result of really wet

winters, which create a lot of fresh vegetation, which then turns into tinder over really hot summers.

Climate scientists say this is a trend that could extend fire season in California by a couple, if not three weeks in the coming generation and it

is going to put a real toll on the sort of consolidated firefighting efforts. Cal Fire, it's a mutual aid state where one community says, I'll

help you with your fire if you help me with mine.

[14:55:00]

If all those crews are stretched too thin, the whole thing breaks down. Thankfully, there's been enough rain and snow up in Central and Northern

California where crews don't have to worry about fires up there. But right now, the concern around the Franklin Fire is containing these -- despite

those scorching and screaming high winds.

Bill Weir, CNN New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA: Just incredible images. Our thanks to Bill for that report. Well, tech giant Google says that it solved a major quantum computing

challenge through the creation of a new chip. A report released on Monday said the new chip was able to solve a computing problem in just five

minutes, a problem that would have taken a classical computer more time than the history of the universe to solve, to put it in perspective.

And finally, for us, with Christmas just around the corner, we're all wondering what Santa will bring us for the holidays. Well, hopefully not

these presents found in one flyer's luggage. A Canadian woman has been arrested for attempting to smuggle 10 kilograms, or about 20 pounds of

methamphetamine into New Zealand. All wrapped up as Christmas gifts and worth up to $2 million. I'm glad she was caught.

Well, thanks so much for watching tonight. Stay with CNN. Newsroom with Jim Sciutto is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:00]

END