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Isa Soares Tonight

Fed. Judge Blocks Trump's Order to End Birthright Citizenship; ICC Seeks Arrest Warrants for Taliban Officials; Israel Presses on West Bank Operation; New Fires Burn in Los Angeles. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired January 23, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:00:00]

ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, U.S. President Donald Trump rails

against the EU in a wide-ranging speech to the World Economic Forum. We are live in Davos with the Norwegian Foreign Minister.

And a federal judge temporarily blocks the President's executive order ending birthright citizenship in the United States, calling it, quote,

"blatantly unconstitutional". Plus, the International Criminal Court, the ICC looks to issue arrest warrants for Taliban leaders over their

persecution of women and girls.

But first, tonight, U.S. President Donald Trump had promised to end the Russia-Ukraine war on day one, if you remember of his second term. Now,

nearly three years after the bloody conflict began, he says the U.S. administration's efforts to reach peace are hopefully, he says, underway.

Trump spoke via video conference, as you can see there today during the World Economic Forum that is held at Davos. He told business as well as

political leaders he wants to set up a meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin to discuss ways to bring an end to the war. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One thing very important I really would like to be able to meet with President Putin soon and get that

war ended. And that's not from the standpoint of economy or anything else. It's from the standpoint of millions of lives are being wasted, beautiful

young people are being shot in the battlefield.

You know, the bullet -- very flat land as I said. And the bullet goes -- there's no -- there's no hiding. And the bullet, the only thing going to

stop the bullet is a human body. And you have to see -- I've seen pictures of what's taking place. It's a carnage and we really have to stop that war.

That war is horrible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Well, the President says he'll ask Saudi Arabia as well as OPEC to cut oil prices, which he claims would bring an immediate end to the Russia-

Ukraine war. In his remarks, Mr. Trump also slammed EU regulators, accusing them of targeting U.S. tech giants like Apple, Google and Meta. And he told

the Davos crowd that America is, quote, "open for business."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: My message to every business in the world is very simple. Come make your product in America and we will give you among the lowest taxes of any

nation on earth. We're bringing them down very substantially, even from the original Trump tax cuts.

But if you don't make your product in America, which is your prerogative, then very simply you will have to pay a tariff, differing amounts, but a

tariff which will direct hundreds of billions of dollars and even trillions of dollars into our treasury to strengthen our economy and pay down debt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Well, Richard Quest; the anchor of "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" and business editor-at-large joins us now from Davos as he says it in

Switzerland. And Richard, I heard you speaking earlier today off the back of this speech, and you said it was a potpourri of a speech. I mean, what

stood out to you from what we heard today?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Oh, where do we begin? Well, we have to sift the rhetoric from the actual policies that we were heard

from today. And there I think you're talking about, for example, actually saying he's going to ask NATO countries to increase their defense spending

from 2 percent, which most just about now do, to 5 percent.

So, he wants a doubling of that. He had speculated that he was going to, but now he actually said he was going to do it. Then of course, you have

the whole question of the tariffs. And I love the way he -- the President said they can manufacture elsewhere, which is their prerogative, but then

I'm going to hit them with tariffs.

Now, this is the big fear of Europe. This is the big fear of every company anywhere in the world that sells into the United States, that at some

point, the U.S. government is going to say, excuse me, would you transfer your manufacturing to the U.S.? It's your prerogative not to.

And I can tell you, Isa, I have spoken to two or three global CEOs here this evening who all say they are now considering just how much production

they should move to the U.S. or how they can finagle it.

[14:05:00]

Because what the -- just to finish what the President said, not only will you not be penalized with the higher tariffs, but you will even be

rewarded with a lower corporate tax break.

SOARES: And on the defense spending, I will be speaking to the Norwegian Foreign Minister in just a moment. And on that --

QUEST: Right --

SOARES: Exact point, Richard, but you know, as he was speaking, I saw oil prices drop on the back of those comments that he made tied to the Ukraine

and Russia war. I'm not sure how the euro do. I didn't check on the euro on the back of the -- you know, the bashing around --

QUEST: Right --

SOARES: Europe over regulation. I mean, it all sounded like very much like a transactional presidency, is what you're telling me -- does that resound

with what --

QUEST: Oh --

SOARES: CEOs are saying there, Richard?

QUEST: Oh, yes, they absolutely, completely, totally, that's exactly what they see. On that oil price, Isa, just to put that in perspective, the

reason that fell back was largely because he says he's going to -- he's going to insist that Saudi and OPEC lower oil prices. Well, he doesn't have

the power to do that.

But regardless, Saudis got no interest in lowering oil prices. Their fiscal deficit means they have to have an oil price about $94 a barrel. It's

already in the 70s, just around in the 80s. And they -- so, they need the oil price. But transactional Trump says he's going to get the MBS, the

Crown Prince to increase the amount that he said he'll invest in the U.S. from $600 billion to a nice round, $1 trillion. Well, good luck with that.

They need the higher oil price to pay that money.

SOARES: Richard Quest, always important to get your insight, especially you're there on the ground in Davos, and Richard will be back in less than

two hours with "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS". Richard, thank you. And President Trump also said the U.S. administration's peace efforts between Russia and

Ukraine are hopefully, as you heard me at the top of the show saying underway.

Joining us now to discuss is our chief global affairs correspondent Matthew Chance, who is live for us in Moscow with the very latest. And Matthew,

what we heard -- I think from what I got from that very long speech was very much a carrot-and-stick approach on what relates to Ukraine and other

allies as well.

And I am kind of paraphrasing here. He said if he doesn't stop the war, there will be sanctions and there will be tariffs. On Wednesday, of course,

he said, we can do the easy way or the hard way. How were these words, Matthew -- how are these threats being received where you are?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, the idea that there's some kind of, you know -- you know, ultimatum being

delivered by the U.S. President has not gone down, as you might expect, particularly well amongst Russian officials or on Russian state media.

They've kind of -- kind of scoffed at it, not least because, I mean, Russia is one of the most heavily-sanctioned countries in the world. It's been the

subject of international financial measures for several years to try and punish it for its -- you know, sort of various malign activities really

since 2014.

And it hasn't really made a blind bit of difference in terms of changing Russia's policy. And so, not only is there not much left to sanction there,

but you know, even if there were, it's not clear that Russia would bend as it were as a result of that -- of that kind of pressure. So, it's been --

it's been scoffed at, this threat.

But you know, I would say that the idea that you have to force Russia to the negotiating table is, you know, I think a little bit, you know, sort of

misrepresentative. You know, Russia is as Trump rightly pointed out, suffering a great deal economically. Its economy is under a great deal of

stress because it's been geared towards fighting this war.

There's been a lot of treasure and a lot of blood lost as well. Hundreds of thousands of people on both sides, in both Ukraine and Russia have been

killed and injured in the war so far, and they are still being killed and injured on a daily basis. So, just from that point of view, you know, it's

in sort of everyone's interest to try and bring this to an end.

The big question is, what will the cost of that be? And, you know, I think that the Kremlin has often seen the idea of negotiations as an opportunity

for it to consolidate its territory and to rebuild its military. And so, Trump may be pushing on a sort of open door as it were when it comes to

getting Trump, you know, in face-to-face talks with him over Ukraine.

SOARES: So, from just -- from your context and your -- the sense that you're getting on the ground, what would be the quid pro quo here? What

would bring Putin to the negotiating table? Because Trump said today, you know, you're going to have to ask Russia in terms of getting a peace

agreement by next year because Ukraine, he says, is ready to make a deal.

[14:10:00]

I mean, first of all, is Ukraine ready to make a deal? And what would Russia accept?

CHANCE: Well, I mean, look, Ukraine is in a difficult position because it has to sort of play along with the idea that it's ready to, you know, kind

of work with President Trump's initiative. It's so heavily-dependent on American weapons and American money to prosecute this war. And so, yes, I

mean, Ukraine is, you know, hoping it can get the best possible deal out of this negotiation.

But I think probably Ukrainian leaders are realistic in sort of understanding they may have to make very painful territorial concessions.

You know, from a Russian point of view -- well, look, I mean, the maximalist position that Putin often talks about is that, yes, he wants an

end to Ukraine. He wants it to be a friend. He wants it basically to be under Russian dominion.

But there is, you know, as I say, economic pressures, there are political pressures on the Kremlin. You know, latest opinion polls suggest that, you

know, enthusiasm for the total domination of the Ukrainian neighbor is not that popular. People aren't that enthusiastic about that inside Russia

because of the economic and the sort of human cost that is being paid for that.

And so, you know, it may well be that, you know, the Russians could be very happy indeed with consolidating the gains in territory they've already

made, and you know, give them a bit of a respite so they can, you know, rebuild what has been a battered military in three years of war in Ukraine.

SOARES: Important context there from our Matthew Chance this evening from Moscow, appreciate it, thank you, Matthew. Well, my next guest serves as

Norway's Minister of Foreign Affairs, he joins us live from Davos in Switzerland is Espen Barth Eide. Foreign Minister, great to have you back

on the show. You are perfectly positioned there in Davos, and I suspect that you like so many heard President Trump's speech today, addressing the

business leaders at Davos.

Let me focus to start off where Matthew Chance really was -- where he just finished our correspondent in Moscow and that's Ukraine and Russian war.

President Trump said today he would call on NATO allies and NATO countries to spend 5 percent of their GDP on defense. In the first term, I remember

he was asking for 2 percent. How realistic is this?

ESPEN BARTH EIDE, FOREIGN MINISTER, NORWAY: Well, I think there is a broad understanding also in Europe and European members of NATO that we have to

do more, and that we are already doing more. Many -- and most of us are way beyond the 2 percent now, which was the traditional demand.

And there is an expectation that, that has to rise exactly to what -- it is something that we have to discuss in NATO, of course, because we set these

targets collectively. But this was, I think, the first time he said it as President. He has been speaking about this number previously as well.

But that's a clear message of laying down the position he has, as we will go into these discussions in NATO. And it should be said, of course, that 5

percent is significantly higher than what the U.S. itself is doing right now. So, that would require an effort also on their side as well as on the

European side.

SOARES: And Foreign Minister, let me just bring up the graphic, as you were talking, we were showing viewers to get a sense of that percentage,

because from what I can see in that graphic, only Poland really -- Poland's closest for 4 percent. Many countries there --

EIDE: Yes --

SOARES: Who are not even marking the 2 percent threshold really, and there are already so many of those countries under economic strain from their own

-- from their own constituents, of course, who want see prices coming down, pressures coming down, want to bring an end to this war. So, speak to those

pressures, and as you try to get to that 5 percent, and how realistic that will be.

EIDE: Well, you know, that's a very high target. And I think most --

SOARES: Yes --

EIDE: NATO countries would not be ready to do that in quite some time. But there is an understanding because there is a full scale war in Europe, the

first large interstate war in Europe since 1945. There is an understanding in this continent that we all have to do more. We need to do more together,

which is why we are not only spending more, but also trying to spend together and integrate better our defense forces.

So, while I don't think there will be agreement at this point at such a number, I think the idea that we will set a higher target is already

factored in among many NATO countries. And you are totally correct, of course, that the economic situation in many countries is strained. There

are many other demands.

[14:15:00]

There are, of course, discussions between public spending and tax cuts and so on. But these are conversations that we will have in NATO, and we very

much look forward to work with the new U.S. administration in NATO, in strengthening our collective defense, which I think is an alliance that is

good for Europeans, but good for Americans alike because we have a solid history over these 75 years of alliance that no country that is member of

NATO has ever been attacked by another state --

SOARES: Yes. And what we didn't hear today from President Trump was a very focused policy when it comes to Ukraine and bringing the end -- the war to

an end. He said he wants to meet with President Putin, wants to end what he called this ridiculous war, but I wonder whether you think, Foreign

Minister, that the West the U.S. has leveraged right now, or do you feel that there's some security, U.S. security guarantees are needed? I mean,

what would bring President Putin to the table right now?

EIDE: Well, I have to say, I think it was good that President Trump spent so much of his speech on this issue. You are right and it was not very

precise or concrete right now, but it was a clear message that he wants to be the President that ends the war in Ukraine. And in principle, ending

wars is a good idea.

But of course, it has to have a just end. There has to be a peace that is favorable to Ukrainian independence, sovereignty, integrity, and in line

with international law. This is very important for Ukrainians. But for all of our Europeans, all allies, that we do not end this in a way which will

tempt Putin to start new wars or to come back to this war.

So, the quality of the peace matters, but the fact that he -- that President Trump puts so much emphasis on Putin, and that it is Putin that

has to move, I think has been welcomed by the crowd here, including as far as I understand it by my Ukrainian colleagues.

SOARES: Well, he certainly sounding more aggressive towards Putin than in his first term that we can remember. One of the ideas that President Trump

mentioned, Foreign Minister, was applying new sanctions and tariffs if Russia doesn't end the war in Ukraine. I mean, as you heard our

correspondent Matthew Chance saying there in Moscow, Russia is already heavily-sanctioned. Will this make a difference do you think?

EIDE: Indeed, Russia is heavily-sanctioned, but there is more we could do. I mean, there's the shadow fleet, for instance, where you see a lot of --

in our view, illegal exports from Russia, you know, violating sanctions regimes. There are still more that could be done when it comes to sanctions

and also the clarity, the "or else" message that he basically sends to Russia is something I think is welcome on this side of the Atlantic.

Because you know, if we are to move towards some kind of settlement, Ukraine needs to negotiate from a position of strength. And there must be -

- it must be clear to President Putin in Russia that continuing the war has a real cost, and that cost will actually increase. And that's the way I

read Trump's message. And I think that if we work together as allies and trying to influence the direction of this newfound Trumpian-American energy

to try to end the war, that could actually lead us to a good place.

But I would underline, it is the quality of the peace --

SOARES: Yes --

EIDE: After every war in history, there is a post-war and we need to influence that in a positive direction.

SOARES: And you know, when you were talking about cost, Foreign Minister, you -- President Trump was -- made the connection and Richard Quest was

talking about this at the beginning of the show between oil prices and the war, saying that he will ask OPEC to lower oil prices because that will

bring an end to the war. Do you buy that?

EIDE: I mean, it's no secret that one of the reasons that President Putin has been able to fund his war and to maintain activity in the -- in the

Russian economy is that oil prices have been high. So, you know, if you isolate the question of oil prices, it would -- it would weaken his

position if the oil prices went down. But I think that would be one of many factors.

SOARES: Yes --

EIDE: And I don't think that in itself would do the trick because it will take too much time. We need to do more than that. But it's part of the

story, I think that's fair to say. And I am definitely not the spokesperson of OPEC, so I'm not going to comment on how they will react to that. But

I'm sure you will ask the right people about what they think about that suggestion.

SOARES: I appreciate that, thank you very much Foreign Minister. But now that I have you here, I want to ask you, get your reaction really to what

we have been seeing out of the West Bank. You know, the last time you and I spoke, we focused primarily --

EIDE: Yes --

[14:20:00]

SOARES: About the war in Gaza. We have now a ceasefire, a hostage negotiation in Gaza. It's now in its fifth day, the ceasefire agreement.

But now we're seeing Israel pushing ahead with the major military operation in the West Bank. The Palestinian Authority's Foreign Minister told my

colleague right there in Davos today, our Becky Anderson, that Israel wants to do to the West Bank what it did to Gaza. Your reaction, Foreign

Minister?

EIDE: So, I must say that this is a very worrying development because now we have a ceasefire in Gaza. It is -- it has to hold. It's important that

the sides stick to their promises. But they have been doing that so far. We've seen and welcomed the release of hostages finally after 15 months,

and also Palestinian prisoners.

But you know, the long-term solution to Gaza must be that it is returned under Palestinian Authority rule. And if this -- these incursions and these

actions in the West Bank continues, that is actually undermining the moderate forces, undermining the Palestine Authority, which is exactly at

the time we need to strengthen them so that they can replace Hamas in Gaza.

So, I think that I am actually quite worried about what we're seeing in the West Bank politically. This is as dramatic. The humanitarian disaster is

much bigger in Gaza, but politically, if we weaken that part of Palestine, which has been until now under the control of the -- of the recognized

Palestine Authority, which does cooperate with Israel, I think that it will -- the road to from ceasefire to peace will be much longer than if we are

now trying to rather strengthen the Palestinian Authority so that they can come into Gaza and replace Hamas and get the Palestinians more joined up

than they have been so far.

SOARES: Foreign Minister, as always appreciate your time, always very generous. Thank you very much, sir.

EIDE: Thank you very much.

SOARES: And we have some breaking news coming in to CNN. Donald Trump's pick for U.S. Defense Secretary is facing what could be potentially a major

road block. Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski says she'll oppose Pete Hegseth's bid to lead the Pentagon. She is -- I mean, this is important

context here, the first Republican to do so.

Hegseth is facing a key procedural vote today. The former TV host has faced allegations, as you well know, of sexual and work place misconduct and

suggestions he has drinking problems. He has -- he denies all those accusations. But this is the first Republican senator saying she will

oppose Hegseth's nomination. We'll stay across this breaking news story for you.

Still to come right here on the show, a judge temporarily blocks what he's calling Donald Trump's blatantly unconstitutional executive order that aims

to end birthright citi-ship(ph) -- citizenship, pardon me in the United States. We have that story for you just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:25:00]

SOARES: And we have breaking news out of Seattle, Washington, where a federal judge has rejected President Donald Trump's executive order banning

birthright citizenship. The judge called the order blatantly unconstitutional and says he's suing -- is issuing a temporary restraining

order to block it. Now, the lawsuit challenging the order was brought by the state of Washington, Oregon, Illinois and Arizona.

And more than a dozen other states have also sued trying to stop the ban if Mr. Trump got his way most children born in the U.S. to foreign parents

wouldn't automatically be American citizens. It is part of the new White House immigration crackdown. But birthright citizenship is currently

guaranteed by the 14th Amendment in the U.S. constitution.

And as of right now, it remains very much the law of the land. I want to bring in Corey Brettschneider; he's a Professor of political science at

Brown University and author of the book, "The President and the People: Five Leaders Who Threaten Democracy and the Citizens Who Fought to Defend

It".

Brett, you're just the person we need to try and make sense of what is going on here. But let's start -- let's start with first of all, Corey,

what this pushback, this breaking news, right? Breaking news, this judge rejecting Trump's executive order, a sign of things to come you think,

Corey?

COREY BRETTSCHNEIDER, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, BROWN UNIVERSITY: Well, it's hard to predict. It's certainly the right thing to do, and I

couldn't agree more with what this judge says. This is an -- blatantly unconstitutional executive order. The 14th Amendment says very clearly, if

you are born in the United States, you are a citizen.

And so, by executive order, you can't revoke the constitution, and yet that's what Trump is trying to do here. Now, why would he do such a thing?

I think it's part of his authoritarian playbook. His wannabe authoritarian playbook to say, hey, I am the President. I don't have to follow the

constitution. I could essentially revoke it with an executive order, and I dare you, the Supreme Court, which ultimately will decide this to defy me.

SOARES: And Corey, it's not so much why he would do at this point, but just for our viewers around the world, can he do it? Can he, with a stroke

of a pen basically change the constitution?

BRETTSCHNEIDER: Absolutely not. The way the system is supposed to work and the law works is that, the constitution is the highest law of the land, and

an executive order can't just say, hey, I don't like this part of the constitution. For instance, he couldn't have an executive order that just

revoked the First Amendment guaranteeing the freedom of speech. And yet, he is doing it.

And the people who are going to decide whether or not he can, as a matter of course, get away with it, are the Supreme Court. And that includes three

people who he's nominated and who he regards as really his judges. Now, what should they do? Absolutely, they should say this is unconstitutional.

They should push back as hard as they can.

And even if they don't, even if they bow to this wannabe authoritarian, the fact is legitimately, it should not stand. The constitution stands above

any act of a President.

SOARES: So, how do you think then, Corey, is he going to navigate these challenges, these legal challenges, because there is an argument playing

out, and I'm not sure if there's any -- there's much truth to this, and maybe you can flesh this out for us, that the Trump team may try to argue a

new re-interpretation of the clause subject to jurisdiction of the United States, right? Flesh this out for us --

BRETTSCHNEIDER: It's absolutely --

SOARES: What are the -- what are the chances here? What will the argument be on that part of the statement?

BRETTSCHNEIDER: It's absolutely right, and there's a case, for instance, called Wong Kim Ark that says, look, there are exceptions to this idea that

being born in the United States makes you a citizen. But they're very narrow. They include, for instance, children of ambassadors or at the time,

given a very different setup that we had in the United States, that was the -- that was the exception anyway.

And there was an exception in some cases too for native Americans. But that case, Wong Kim Ark made it clear at the same time that absent those very

narrow exceptions, there's a broad protection for people born in the United States as citizens.

Now, what he's going to try to do is really make it up and say that this language of jurisdiction doesn't apply if there are children of

undocumented people in the United States. That is not a good argument. It's not one --

SOARES: Yes --

BRETTSCHNEIDER: That serious legal scholars respect, but it might be one that the court goes along with, unfortunately.

ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Corey, appreciated it. I have a feeling you and I will be talking quite a bit about this and days ahead.

And of course, next time you can just call me Soares. I call you -- I was about to call you Brettschneider as a first name. So, feel free to call me

Soares so that we're even. Thanks very much. Appreciate it. Thanks, Corey.

BRETTSCHNEIDER: Thank you. Always a pleasure.

SOARES: And still to come tonight, the ICC is seeking arrest warrants for top Taliban leaders in Afghanistan. But what does that mean for the women

and the girls living under their repressive rule? We'll have the details after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. Imagine a world where you can't go to secondary school, you can't speak in public, and you can't even look

outside a window in your own home. That is the reality for Afghan women and girls living under the Taliban's repressive rules.

Since the extremist group came to power more than three years ago, the list of restrictions, as you can see here, just keeps on going. Everything from

banned from public parks and gyms, must wear face coverings, no education of the age of 20, even couldn't even travel further than 75 kilometers or

45 miles without a male chaperone. In Afghanistan, if you're female, wearing the wrong thing could get you arrested and possibly even beaten.

[14:35:00]

But today, there is a flicker of hope. The International Criminal Court, the ICC, is now seeking arrest warrants for two Taliban officials for

alleged gender-based crimes. Here's what the ICC prosecutor, Karim Khan, said earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARIM KHAN, ICC PROSECUTOR: My office has concluded that these two Afghan nationals are criminally responsible for persecuting Afghan girls and

women, as well as persons whom the Taliban perceived are not conforming with their ideological expectations of gender identity or expression.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Joining me now is Fawzia Koofi. She's a former deputy speaker of the Afghan parliament and a former member of the Afghan delegation

negotiating peace with the Taliban. And she joins us this evening from Davos. Fawzia, wonderful to have you back on the show.

This move, as we just play that little clip there from the ICC, has -- important point out, has not been approved yet. Yes, it's long overdue, but

not approved. What are you hearing, first of all, from your Afghan sisters on girls? What is the reaction?

FAWZIA KOOFI, FORMER DEPUTY SPEAKER FOR AFGHAN PARLIAMENT: Isa, just two hours ago, as soon as this news was out, a former university professor

texted me and say the -- it looks like a breeze of fresh air in the midst of a suffocated, you know, environment.

So, as much as many people say women inside Afghanistan are disconnected, they are not resistant, they're not resilience, they are not taking any

action, probably some even justified that they are happy with the situation, which I don't think any human beings will be happy with the life

that Afghan women are experiencing. But you can see that they actually are watching the world -- they're watching what the world can do about their

situation.

So, it is a breeze of fresh air and hope in this dark period. I know that it will probably take long, but I think we need to make these international

institutions gain the trust of people.

SOARES: And, Fawzia, I mean, you and I have spoken before here on the show, you came to shoot. We talked about this. It feels like the last time

we spoke is three years ago. So, incredible to think that we're still talking today about this.

But give us a sense of what we know about these two Taliban senior leaders. What play -- what role, I should say, did they play in this gender-based

violence that the ICC is talking off here?

KOOFI: Yes. I mean, we know that Ayatollah, since the Taliban were brought back to power, he slowly and gradually issued one edict after the other,

one letter after the other, banning women from their fundamental human rights, but also even Islamic rights.

Starting from their first edict, which was about women's education, banning women from attending school beyond grade six, which is age 12, all the way

to the recent one, which was banning women from attending medical studies. Basically, women cannot become any more nurses or midwives or even medical

doctors, which is going to disrupt our medical -- our health system and eventually affect the life of women and children.

And I must say that I was a medical college student when the Taliban first came, they allow women to go to the university beyond -- at the senior

classes, but a contradiction to their first time, they ban women from becoming doctors or even nurses and midwives. And also, recently, they say,

you know, there should be a certain size of the window so that woman cannot see outside their homes. And they order all the induce (ph) and

international induce (ph) to stop recruiting women, otherwise, their licenses will be canceled.

Most of these, or all -- I must say, all these edicts comes from the leader and these edicts were justified by a book that the chief -- their chief

justice, who was also chief negotiator during the negotiation time that we met, and we know that most of their statements were very much different

than now, justified the edicts of the leader in a book.

There are many others among the Taliban who actually should face similar situation for committing crimes against humanity on the basis of gender,

you know, the minister of vice and virtue, the minister of higher education. You know, the minister of higher education -- and I'm laughing

because, on one hand, I must say I'm happy. And you can see the smile. On the other hand, it's a tragic smile because he said in one of his public

statements yesterday, the minister of higher education, he said, the youth, and pardon me for using this word, the woman also.

So, even by mentioning the word of woman, he asked a pardon from the public. This is insane. They must actually be hold accountable for what

they do.

SOARES: And look, one of the last edicts you talked about the from the Taliban, latest decree, says new buildings must not be constructed with

windows through which women can be seen. I mean, so existing buildings with windows must now be walled up or covered.

[14:40:00]

I mean, this really beggars' belief. You know, you and I, when you were talking -- we were talking last time here in the studios that it's

unbelievable that we're still talking about this. The ICC is now starting to get this arrest warrants. Now, they'll be discussing it. What would you

like to see from the International Community? Many of whom of course do not recognize the Taliban, but what else needs to be done right now?

KOOFI: I think the International Community must hold the Taliban accountable. Why I'm asking the International Community while we know that

many of these countries around the world, especially the Global North, actually, in a way, betrayed women in Afghanistan. Because, you know, for

very long, they said, we're supporting women's rights and we are here to protect democracy. All of a sudden, they went and signed a deal with the

Taliban and basically abandoned women.

But I'm asking still the same International Community because they are responsible for what happened in Afghanistan. They must hold the Taliban

accountable for the statements, for the, you know, narrative that was created during the negotiation and bring them to ICC, ICJ, because I feel

at the end of the day, there should be a political process.

We need to, you know, create a government that is acceptable for all. But without using these leverages, without, you know, ending the culture of

impunity, nothing will change in Afghanistan.

SOARES: Fawzia Koofi, appreciated as always. Fawzia, thank you very much. Great to see you.

KOOFI: Thank you, Isa.

SOARES: And do stay right here, we'll be taking a short break. We'll see you on the other side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOARES: Well, as the fragile ceasefire in Gaza enters its fifth day, Israel is pushing ahead with a major military operation in the West Bank.

It's focused on Jenin. Soldiers have put up new roadblocks across the West Bank, cutting off some communities from the outside world. Israel calls it

an anti-terror operation. It says its forces kill two men near Jenin overnight, who were suspected in a deadly shooting attack earlier this

month.

Janine's governor says the area is, quote, "under siege." He says some 20,000 people have been forced from their homes. One teenager describes how

Israeli soldiers pushed his family to leave. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUSSAM SAADI, DISPLACED FROM JENIN, WEST BANK (through translator): They sent down a drone to our neighborhood telling us to leave the camp and that

they will blow it up. They said no houses will be left or anything. They want to do us like they did in Gaza.

[14:45:00]

They got us out and closed the roads. Now, they are holding up all the youth and are not letting anyone through.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Well, the Palestinian Authority's foreign minister talked about the Israeli operation during a CNN panel in Davos today. Have a listen to

this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VARSEN AGHABEKIAN, PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY FOREIGN AFFAIRS MINISTER: I think what is happening in Jenin is very unfortunate, and it's a deliberate

attempt by Israel to undermine the Palestinians in general. And we're hearing it, they don't shy away from voicing it. They're telling us very

clearly, we're done with Gaza for the time being. We don't know for how long, because they are also voicing that they are going back into Gaza. But

now it's a time on the West Bank and we will do on the West Bank what we have done on the Gaza Strip.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: And I want to stay in the West Bank, because a journalist from the West Bank was one of the first Palestinian prisoners released as part of

the Gaza ceasefire as well as hostage deal. Jailed by an Israeli military tribunal for her social media posts, she's now giving a chilling account of

disturbing conditions and repeated abuse in Israeli custody. Our Nada Bashir has this story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Little Elia is still adjusting to finally having her mother back home. Rula Hassanein, a

Palestinian journalist from the occupied West Bank, was arrested by Israeli security forces when her daughter was just nine months old.

Now, after 10 months in detention, she is among the first Palestinian prisoners to be freed as part of the Israel-Hamas ceasefire agreement.

RULA HASSANEIN, PALESTINIAN JOURNALIST AND RELEASED DETAINEE (through translator): Of course, my daughter forgot what I looked like. My husband

and family members would show her photos of me. They would tell her that this is your mother, but a photo is nothing like the real thing.

I would dream about my daughter a lot. My first Ramadan after having Elia was spend in prison. I was in prison for her first Eid and I also missed

out on the memory of her first birthday.

BASHIR (voice-over): This was the moment Rula was reunited with her daughter and husband last week, having suffered from health complications

in the first few months of life, Rula says it was a relief to see her daughter doing well after almost a year of agonizing separation. But Rula

herself has also been through unimaginable suffering while in detention.

HASSANEIN (through translator): During our transfer, we weren't allowed to drink water, eat any food, use the bathroom or even to pray.

BASHIR (voice-over): Rula says that the day she and 89 other prisoners were transferred for release as part of the ceasefire deal, they were

subjected to hours of psychological and physical abuse. She recalls that they were pushed down to their knees, dragged across the ground while

handcuffed, and dressed only in thin layers while out in the cold. They were then made to watch hours of Israeli propaganda video before being

released.

But like so many other Palestinians in Israeli jails, abuse and harassment had become a daily occurrence for Rula.

BASHIR: What were the conditions like inside the prison?

HASSANEIN (through translator): Regarding the female prisoners, they violate all international human rights to protect us. We were also deprived

of our most private needs. During our time of the month, male guards would say we don't need to change our sanitary pads every hour, only every four

or five hours. They confiscated our underwear and left us with only one piece to wear.

We saw female prisoners from Gaza who were brought to Daman Prison. Some of them looked like they were in a very difficult state. During their time of

the month their clothes would be covered in blood. It was horrifying. The guards were mocking them.

BASHIR (voice-over): The Israeli prison service has told CNN that they are not aware of any such claims, but the harsh conditions faced by

Palestinians in Israeli jails has been widely documented.

In a report published in July 2024, the U.N. Human Rights Office said Palestinian detainees are subjected to systematic beatings, humiliation and

threats in addition to severe restrictions on food, water, and essential hygiene products.

Like many Palestinians, Rula was tried before a military court rather than a civil court and later charged with incitement on social media of a post

shared where she had expressed frustration over the suffering of Palestinians in Gaza.

HASSANEIN (through translator): It isn't a new policy to hold Palestinian accountable for their thoughts. Many Palestinians have been targeted for

their art or writing. It has become so easy for them to arrest someone simply by accusing them of incitement on social media.

[14:50:00]

BASHIR (voice-over): For Rula, it is impossible to forget the suffering that she and other Palestinian detainees have been forced to endure. But,

she says, her focus now is on enjoying each moment with her daughter and husband.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: And our thanks to Nada Bashir for that report. And still to come tonight, firefighters are battling three new fires in Southern California.

We have the latest on the conditions in Los Angeles next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOARES: The nominations for the 97th Academy Awards were announced today with a few big surprises. The news was delayed several days, of course, due

to the impact of the Los Angeles Fire Wildfires. But let me bring you up to date on the list of the Best Picture nominees. The Netflix film, "Emilia

Perez," leads the way with 13 total nominations, while "Wicked" and "The Brutalist" got each 10, I think. Yes, they did. Unfortunately, I haven't

seen any of them.

One of the most interesting races will come in Best Actress, where Karla Sofia Gascon is the first opening trans woman to be nominated. Golden Globe

winner Demi Moore is also in that category, getting the first Oscar nomination of her long career. I'm actually very excited about Fernanda

Torres from Brazil. I'm a huge fan and have always been. And the race will play out in the weeks to come, culminating at the March 2nd ceremony hosted

by Conan O'Brien.

And we were talking about those L.A. wildfires and firefighters in the Los Angeles area are battling three new fires and red flag wind warnings have

been extended for the region.

The latest broke out just a few hours ago, and this is the Laguna Fire in Ventura County. That's just north of Los Angeles. So far, 50 acres, that's

about 20 hectares, have burned. The other fire we've been following is the Hughes Fire, which is burning near Castaic -- pardon me if I'm saying this

wrong, Castaic, that's also north of Los Angeles. And it has scorched more than 10,000 acres, or 4,000 hectares of brush. It's 14 -- only 14 percent

contained. And then, you have the Sepulveda Fire, which is burning near the busy 405 Freeway in the heart of L.A.

[14:55:00]

Just look at those images. It's something out of a movie. Just incredible to think that these are still ongoing. Crews have been able to get 60

percent containment by using water dropping aircraft. We, of course, will stay across those fires. The very latest for you, we'll bring them to your

attention.

There is a new outdoor art exhibit though that is in London. It's lighting up London. 12 new works from international artists are on display in the

Financial District for the annual Winter Lights Festival. Organizers say the exhibit explores otherworldly qualities of art and light. Those who

brave the cold can see displays including an illuminated bird in flight and glowing life size figures. The festival runs through February the 1st. Just

put your jackets on.

And to Australia, a once-in-a-decade event is happening right now at the Botanic Gardens of Sydney. These are pictures of a corpse flower blooming.

It's named after the putrid stench it gives off. Some saying it smells like death. And it attracts pollinators like beetles and flies when it blooms as

well as huge crowds of people since each bloom only lasts 24 to 48 hours, sometimes just once every 10 years. It is a spectacle indeed.

That does it for us for tonight. Thanks very much for your company. Do you stay here. Newsroom with Zain Asher, actually, is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:00]

END