Return to Transcripts main page
Isa Soares Tonight
Almost 1,000 Arrested in U.S. Immigration Raids; Lukashenko Re- Elected Again in Belarus; Undersea Cables Damaged. Aired 2:00-3p ET
Aired January 27, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, it's President Trump versus Latin
America. We'll be live as plane-loads of illegal migrants arrive after deportation from the United States. Plus, tens of thousands of Palestinians
flood back to northern Gaza. But how do they start to rebuild amongst that rubble?
And the horrors of Auschwitz 80 years on. I speak with one survivor working to educate children, so the world never faces another such tragedy again.
But first, tonight, after months and months of a devastating war, tens of thousands of Palestinians are now returning to what's left of their homes
in northern Gaza.
And these extraordinary scenes show men, women and children, as you can see there, walking on foot carrying whatever belongings they can and they have.
They've relived to leave their tents, of course, and makeshift shelters behind, but their joy is tempered by the shock of the destruction as the
world they once knew has been wiped out.
Hospitals have gone, schools have gone, bakeries and markets and so much more that once sustained life here. Still, many say they'd rather be
nowhere else but home. And the fragile ceasefire between Israel and Hamas is allowing for some emotional reunions. You can see there, two of the men
you see embracing is Gaza city -- in Gaza city, twin brothers reunited after more than a year of separation.
Israel delayed the Palestinians return to the north by two days after accusing Hamas of breaching the terms of a ceasefire agreement. But amid
the joyous scenes, comments by U.S. President Donald Trump are raising fears of a mass expulsion of Palestinians. Just listen to what he said
about Gaza over the weekend.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And we just clean out that whole thing -- and said, you know, it's over the centuries, it's had many
conflicts, that site. And I don't know, it's -- something has to happen. But it's literally a demolition site right now. Almost everything is
demolished.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SOARES: Let's get more now from our Jeremy Diamond who joins us in Tel Aviv. And Jeremy, that President -- that comment from President Trump and
from what I understand is already being endorsed by one of the more kind of far-right voices within Netanyahu's party. And I'm thinking here of
Bezalel Smotrich. Just widen it out for us. I mean, how are those words being received?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, indeed, by far-right lawmakers, it is being received with open arms. And that's because those
very same lawmakers have been calling for the same thing that President Trump just called for. And that is the mass displacement of Palestinians
from the Gaza Strip, presumably to move them away from a war zone.
But in reality, in particular, when it comes to these far-right ministers, it is in order to lay the groundwork for Israel to resettle Gaza. Now,
President Trump didn't quite take it that far. But what he did make clear is that this could be a temporary solution, but it could also be a long-
term one.
And for Palestinians in Gaza and indeed in Israel and in the West Bank, that is very triggering and reminiscent of decades of displacement,
sometimes forced displacement that Palestinians have experienced in Israel and in the Palestinian territories. And so, we heard today from
Palestinians as they were trudging along the miles of road from southern Gaza to the northern part of the Strip, finally returning home after months
of displacement, rejecting out-of-hand any notion of leaving Gaza.
And that was evident in these extraordinary scenes that we saw today of tens of thousands of Palestinians returning to northern Gaza, showing their
resolve to return to their homes, even though many of them knew that they were returning to scenes of absolute destruction. We heard from many people
today expressing their uncertainty about whether or not their homes were indeed still standing before arriving in northern Gaza.
And as they arrive there, we saw rare moments of joy among Palestinians, scenes that we haven't seen play out in so long in Gaza as people were
reunited with their families as they cried tears of joy for being able to return to the part of northern Gaza that they themselves consider home.
[14:05:00]
There's no question, though, that amid these scenes of joy, amid the chants that we heard from so many along this winding road back to northern Gaza,
we also know that there is a very long road to recovery ahead, and also very much the uncertainty of whether or not the six weeks ceasefire
actually will spell an end to the war or whether these people will be forced to flee back the other way once again.
SOARES: Yes, and in the meantime, incredibly-moving scenes that we are seeing as you were talking there, Jeremy. Jeremy Diamond there for us.
Thanks very much, Jeremy. Well, one veteran Palestinian politician is condemning President Trump's comments on Gaza, saying, quote, "the
conspiracy of ethnic cleansing will not succeed in Gaza or the West Bank."
Mustafa Barghouti is President of the Palestinian National Initiative and a member of the Palestinian parliament. Dr. Barghouti, really appreciate you
coming back on the show. Let me start really where our Jeremy Diamond, which is talking about where he left off and those comments from President
Trump of "cleaning out the whole thing", speaking of Gaza. This is pretty alarming. Your reaction, first of all, to what you heard.
MUSTAFA BARGHOUTI, PRESIDENT, PALESTINIAN NATIONAL INITIATIVE: Well, thank you, Isa, for having me. I think what President Trump has said is very
dangerous. I don't know how if he comprehends completely the meaning of what he said. But I add Bernie Sanders, Senator Bernie Sanders said what
Trump called for is nothing but a war -- but a war crime and a call for ethnic cleansing, which is a war crime.
President Trump wants to receive -- maybe he hopes to receive the Nobel Peace Prize, but if he continues saying these things, he will be classified
as a war criminal. That is very dangerous. And what he calls for is absolutely not going to happen. You have seen how Palestinians returned
after suffering from genocide, collective punishment and ethnic cleansing by the Israeli army.
They went back to the places that were devastated, 90 percent of their homes were destroyed, but they still insisted on going back to the north of
Gaza because this is their home, and they won't leave it and they would not accept to be displaced again after they have been displaced in 1948 by
Israel.
So, the thing is that -- the other thing is that who is going to accept what Mr. Trump spoke about today? We've heard the responsible people in
Jordan and in Egypt declaring very clearly that they will never accept this kind of displacement of Palestinians to Jordan or Egypt. They said it very
clearly that this would be a very big threat to the national security of both Jordan and Egypt.
So, I don't know who advised President Trump to say these things, but whoever did harmed him terribly, and he should retract what he said, in my
opinion. And we, the Palestinian people will not be accepting to be displaced from anywhere to anywhere.
SOARES: So, what do you think? I mean, he's a week into his presidency and he's already saying this. Do you think it was a slip of the tongue, or do
you fear, Dr. Barghouti, that this is the future of potentially U.S. policy vis-a-vis Gaza? That is the real fear, I imagine.
BARGHOUTI: No, it's not a slip of a tongue. I think there are advisors to Mr. Trump and people in his administration like Mike Huckabee, who is going
to be the American ambassador to Israel, who clearly and openly said that Palestinians don't exist. We don't exist for him. We are an invention, as
he claimed. We've heard also other terrible comments by the new American representative in the United Nations.
SOARES: Yes --
BARGHOUTI: This kind of racist approach that is totally biased to Israel is not going to be helpful and is going to harm even the administration. I
don't think Americans would ever imagine somebody saying that Americans should be displaced, for instance, to Afghanistan or Mexico. What you don't
accept for yourself, you cannot accept for us as Palestinians.
SOARES: And you were mentioning there, Elise Stefanik, who's been nominee -- Donald Trump's nominee to be U.S. ambassador to the U.N., who said last
week, quote, "Israel has a biblical right to annex the West Bank." So, I think that's what you were referencing there, Dr. Barghouti.
Whatever -- you know, it is however he said it. You know that it's already -- as we heard from our Jeremy Diamond there in Tel Aviv, it's already been
endorsed by some far-right voices. Bezalel Smotrich who said here that -- he said "encouraging migration is the only solution that will bring peace
and security to the residents of Israel and alleviate the suffering of Gaza's Arab residents."
And then he added that he was working on a plan to implement trans-vision. So, speak to the pressure that needs to be applied here from neighboring
states. I'm thinking here of the likes of Saudi Arabia. What do we think -- what do you want to see here?
[14:10:00]
BARGHOUTI: What you refer to is in fact fascist Israeli ministers who are advocating not only ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, but total annexation
of the West Bank. And Smotrich, this fascist minister who is still in the Israeli government and who was against the ceasefire like Ben-Gvir and
others, said it very clearly when they came to power.
He said that they should fill the West Bank with settlers and settlements so that Palestinians would lose any hope of a state of their own. And then
Palestinians have to choose between leaving, which is ethnic cleansing that it's advocating or accepting a life of subjugation which is eternal
apartheid or die.
And that's exactly the kind of genocide that was committed in Gaza. So, of course, the Arab countries like Saudi Arabia and others, Trump is hoping
that they will be investing in the United States, of course, have the duty to say to Trump today that this is unacceptable. And another ethnic
cleansing will not be allowed.
And I hope they will say so. But we already heard from many western governments, almost condemnation of what Trump said, maybe indirectly. But
they all declared today that ethnic cleansing is not an acceptable option, and that Palestinians should not be removed from their homeland.
SOARES: Let me get your inner Ramallah in the West Bank. It's important that I get your take on what has been happening there. We have seen the
Israeli military intensifying its operations, military operations in Jenin. And while it does say it's going after terrorists, our teams on the ground,
Dr. Barghouti and Nada Bashir and team, they said they have seen civilians being forced out of their homes, some with 20 minutes warning.
The U.N. said the entrances of major Palestinian cities have been closed. Can you tell us what is happening because there may be a ceasefire in Gaza,
but life is certainly -- looks like it's getting harder in the West Bank.
BARGHOUTI: Absolutely. Actually, while the military actions have stopped in Gaza and we have ceasefire, Israel has moved the war to the West Bank,
not only Jenin Camp is attacked continuously, and actually there is an act of ethnic cleansing taking place there where thousands of families have
been forced by Israeli military to leave their refugee camp.
And several houses have been already burned or bombarded completely, and the Israeli military action has expanded today to Tulkarm area. Another
Palestinian city where the Israeli army has occupied the city, spread its military everywhere, are shooting people in the streets. They have already
besieged the hospitals in the -- in the city, and they are attacking now Tulkarem Refugee Camp as well.
So, we are talking about an expanding military operation that will take the lives of many Palestinians. But on top of that, 900 military checkpoints
have already been imposed on the West Bank, including gates that shut off completely, villages and towns in the West Bank, preventing economic life,
preventing freedom of movement. A trip that usually takes 40 minutes now could take five hours, and sometimes --
SOARES: Well --
BARGHOUTI: It cannot happen at all. So, we see now a massive oppression of the Palestinian people. And while the world is now conducting --
remembering actually the holocaust, the big question here is, what does the -- what do the Israelis do to us? Are they trying to create another
holocaust? They've suffered a lot.
Their ancestors suffered a lot from the holocaust. So, why are they doing it to us now? This should stop. Palestinian people are entitled to freedom,
are entitled to self-determination. We want real peace. We want just peace. But we want to be treated as equal human beings. And what Israel is doing
now in the West Bank as it did in Gaza is absolutely unacceptable and a violation of every international law.
SOARES: Dr. Barghouti, appreciate you taking the time to speak to us as always. Always appreciate your analysis. Thank you, sir.
BARGHOUTI: Thank you, Isa.
SOARES: Now, the Trump administration has agreed to Israel's request to extend a ceasefire agreement in Lebanon, saying it will remain in effect
for three more weeks. The announcement came after Israeli troops failed to withdraw from southern Lebanon by Sunday, the deadline set by the ceasefire
deal between Israel and Hezbollah.
Lebanese authorities say Israeli forces killed 22 people in the area yesterday as that deadline passed. Israel blames Lebanon for not upholding
its part of the deal. Lebanon accuses Israel of procrastination. And still to come tonight, survivors and world leaders are gathering in Poland today.
We'll tell you about the ceremony to mark the 80th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. And the remaining survivors want to make sure the
next generation never forgets. I speak with one survivor at a school in London.
[14:15:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACKIE YOUNG, HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR: I'd like to think that they have opened their eyes a bit to what can happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, today, the world marks the 80th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. Survivors, family members and world leaders have
gathered to remember the atrocities at the notorious Nazi concentration camp. Approximately 1.1 million people were murdered there between 1940 and
1945. Those who survived Auschwitz shared their stories. It gave them warning against the rise in anti-Semitism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOVA FRIEDMAN, AUSCHWITZ SURVIVOR: We are also here to proclaim and to pledge that we will never ever allow history to repeat itself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: CNN senior international correspondent Melissa Bell joins us now from Auschwitz-Birkenau. And Melissa, that message from Tova -- from Tova,
we just heard there is so important. Was that something that you heard from many of the holocaust survivors who returned there today?
MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It was Isa. And remember that for those who made the trip back, these are people who were
very small children at the time and are now of a very advanced age, many of them very frail. And you saw that very moving ceremony earlier, they were
accompanied each by a family member, really holding some of them up as they made their way towards the front of that memorial tent to place their
candles.
But in some of the speeches we heard from those survivors, the memory, of course, of the many millions who weren't ever able to make it out of the
camps and make their voices heard, many of the survivors spoke to them. But this was, of course, a particularly poignant commemorative event because,
Isa, the fact is that it's likely the last time there will be any living witnesses to what happened here at Auschwitz-Birkenau, able to speak about
it.
They don't expect that at the 85th, they will have many if any of those voices attending at all. So, there was a real poignancy to what they had to
say to the effort that they made to make their way here. As difficult as it was, one of the survivors told us, for her heart and for her head to return
to where she and her twin sister had been experimented on by Josef Mengele 80 odd years ago.
[14:20:00]
Still necessary, she said, for the world to hear and understand what had happened in front of these survivors, of course, speaking. There was a cast
of many European leaders, King Charles, the Spanish king, the Belgian king, also political leaders, Volodymyr Zelenskyy was here, so was the French
President, the German President and the German chancellor. But this was not about their voices.
In fact, none of them spoke at all. They listened to what the survivors had to say about the past and about their fears for the future. But a really
poignant moment for anyone who was able to watch and listen to their words, Isa, because it's one of the last times I think we're likely --
SOARES: Yes --
BELL: To be able to do so.
SOARES: Yes, their testimony is important now more than ever. Melissa, appreciate there. Melissa at the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp. Thank you,
Melissa. Well, as the world observes this milestone anniversary, some of the remaining holocaust survivors are working to share the horrific story
of the Nazi death camps with the next generation.
I visited one school in North London where a survivor Jackie Young gives his testimony to students, reflecting on the hard-learned lessons the world
should never forget.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
YOUNG: What I'm about to tell you now, I had absolutely no knowledge of myself.
SOARES (voice-over): For the last 13 years, Jackie Young has been taking teenagers beyond the history books.
YOUNG: The war had been on already two -- over two years.
SOARES: Educating them about the holocaust by retelling his harrowing story as a baby sent to a Nazi concentration camp.
YOUNG: How and why I survived two years, eight months as a nine-month-old baby, I still do not know.
SOARES: It was 1945 when Jackie arrived in the U.K. on a British Royal Air Force plane. His adopted parents never told Jackie was a holocaust
survivor, keeping his early life secret for years.
YOUNG: Any little piece of the puzzle of my past would be more than welcome.
SOARES: It's a puzzle that he is yet to complete, but with each piece, a moment of clarity for 83-year-old Jackie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is something you haven't found out yet but you would like to?
SOARES: And an awakening of the minds for this younger generation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did the whole process change your identity and the way you see the world today?
YOUNG: It's what I call cathartic.
SOARES: With each passing year, some fear this generation could be the last to hear from holocaust survivors. Their testimonies consigned to
footnotes in history books.
(on camera): Given what we heard from Jackie and the lessons from history, and what is playing out in the world right now, how does his story shape
all of you who are the future?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel that it really highlights the importance and the need to stand up to -- you know, prejudice and stand up for those who are
vulnerable. And I feel that it's -- it reminds us of the importance of teaching and educating younger generations to really combat prejudice and
promote peace.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I agree, and that kind of story kind of leaves you wondering, what about the other children that have their same story? What
happened to them? Do they know what happened? Do they not know?
SOARES (voice-over): Jackie says he has found peace that the puzzle of his life may never be complete.
YOUNG: I resigned myself to the fact that the pieces are smaller by the day.
SOARES (on camera): The reception you get from the teenagers, many of them have studied it. But as I heard today, it's quite -- it's quite another
story hearing it directly from someone who lived it and breathed it. What do you think they take away from it?
YOUNG: I'd like to think that they have opened their eyes a bit to what can happen with humanity. I mean, we've got no other game in on this world.
SOARES (voice-over): Life lessons from a holocaust survivor whose story of trauma and resilience will hopefully reverberate beyond the school walls.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And our thanks to Jackie Young and to everyone, the teachers and the students at the Hendon School in North London. Thank you very much
indeed for your time. Now, the Chairman of the World Holocaust Remembrance Center is accusing the world's richest man of insulting victims of Nazism.
His comments come two days after Elon Musk appeared virtually at a campaign rally for Germany's far-right AFD Party, and told the crowd it's time to
move on from the past guilt.
The tech billionaire said AFD, which is known for its populist, anti- immigrant views was Germany's best hope in next month's snap election. Just last week, Musk faced criticism for this. A hand warm gesture that some say
mirrored a Nazi salute during a speech in Washington D.C. Still to come tonight, U.S. President Donald Trump's immigration crackdown is now well
underway. But what does that mean for Latin America? Try to grapple with that next.
[14:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. We are eight days into the Trump administration. U.S. President is already turning Latin America upside
down. We want to start in Colombia where trade war with U.S. now appears to have been averted. Late on Sunday, Trump imposed a 25 percent tariff on the
country after this man, President Gustavo Petro of Colombia refused to accept flights carrying deported migrants.
Those tariffs were then suspended after the two countries reached an agreement. But this crackdown goes beyond Colombia's borders. And you can
see here some of the flights that are also headed out of the United States. They're going to Mexico, Guatemala, not just Colombia, but also to Brazil.
Today, Mexico and Guatemala have said that they have not seen increased numbers of migrants since Trump came to power, while Brazilian officials
have called the administration's treatment of migrants, in their words, degrading. All of this while ICE ramps up raids throughout the United
States with a sweep over the weekend resulting in nearly 1,000 arrests alone.
And those policies are, of course, affecting families, as you can imagine, right across the United States. Here are the words of one woman whose
father was arrested on Sunday. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YELTZA MARQUINA, FATHER ARRESTED BY ICE: For them to just take my dad. I'm already have broken myself like can really imagine little kids whose
families are breaking apart because of this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Our David Culver was in Guatemala with some of those flights landed today. Have a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Now, there's two flights today that have been planned for and one is the commercial one that
just arrived and another later today will be a military aircraft from the U.S. that has been allowed here to land, according to the vice president,
without any issues. And I spoke with her a short time ago, just before she welcomed these migrants.
Now, I can't show you their faces right now, but you can see behind me some of these folks in vests. They're at computers and they're going to start
registering some of them.
Let me show you what they walk into as they come in here. Here, Jerry, watch your step here as we come around. You're going to see some of these
chargers that are set up. This is where they come in and charge their phones to try to be in touch, then, with family and folks on the ground who
can help them with transportation to figure out next steps.
This is an interesting area, too. This is where their belongings are. So, you can see there's a guitar case. You've got just what basically are
potato sacks, if you will. I mean, that's basically what I'm looking at here that are stapled with their names and their information. And I even
see some things like packets of sugar from Wawa, you know, a store in the U.S. Things that must have just been in their pockets that they emptied
out, which is pretty standard.
They also aren't wearing shoelaces. It's pretty typical from what we've seen when they've been picked up by Border Patrol, for example, on the U.S.
side. That tends to be part of the protocol, to remove shoelaces, anything that could be deemed a hazard.
And so, these are what they're going to pick up after they finally are done with their registration and their reintegration process. Speaking to the
vice president here, though, one of the things I wanted to get a sense of is what has changed now under President Trump that is different from
deportation flights, say, a week and a half ago under President Biden.
The vice president telling me the numbers and the capacity have not changed. That that is staying the same as of now. The one difference,
though, is that they are allowing military flights to move forward with some of these deportations. Obviously, that was an issue, as we saw in the
past 24 hours, in Colombia, but here, the vice president telling me it's not going to be an issue. They're going to allow that to continue forward.
She was very careful in how she was describing this, saying that she wants relations between Guatemala and the U.S. to remain stable, to be at ease as
they're going through this challenging moment. But all in all, she said, this is an opportunity for them to really focus, as she put it, on the
migrants who are coming here.
Once they come in here, this is kind of the final step before they then go back into life here in Guatemala, which for many of them is decades ago
that they left, amidst a brutal civil war from the '60s into the mid-'90s, and then found themselves in the U.S. trying to build new lives.
It's a challenge, no question, for many of them. There's a lot of security here. I mean, us to go through this area, not only because the vice
president's here, but just because this is an area where you have coyotes, which are essentially, I think, cartel-backed smugglers that are preying on
the exteriors of this place.
And so, you have armed forces who are carrying rifles, you've got police who are armed as well. And they will escort these migrants onto the buses
and make sure that they can get from this location to a central bus terminal without being exploited because that seems to be a huge issue.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: So, that was our David Culver in Guatemala City. Let me take you to Bogota when that -- we had that spat, of course, over the weekend on
Sunday between President Trump and President Petro. Stefano Pozzebon joins me now.
So, Stefano, I mean, President Petro, I think it's fair to say, relented quite quickly. Do we know why he changed his mind? What are you hearing?
STEFANO POZZEBON, JOURNALIST: Well, I think that, Isa, in order to understand what went through Petro's mind, and especially the aids of
Petro's in those frantic hours yesterday, look where we are here. We are in the Oxford Street version of -- the Bogota version of Oxford Street. And
you can see there is a Mac Centre, which is an apple store, and a Starbucks coffee. So, Starbucks sells coffee even in Colombia, which is the world's
capital of coffee.
Now, the prospect of a tariff trade war with the United States, it's something that eventually the Colombian government wanted to avoid as much
as possible, no matter how the rhetoric and how strong the rhetoric from Petro was and his insistence that the migrants had to be treated
dignifiedly and had to receive all the proper treatments in coming back towards Colombia, the idea of going into trade war with the United States
in this country was too much to bear.
We're talking about 50 percent on a lot of expensive goods, technology, the security situation, and that's why I think, in the end, the aid of both
Trump and Gustavo Petro were able to carve out a compromise. Colombia will still accept migrants.
[14:35:00]
We are hearing from the White House that Colombia has accepted military flights. We're not hearing that line from the Colombians just yet. If we
hear that, we'll report it back to you. But basically, the diplomacy worked in trying -- that was created by the two populist presidents live on social
media as we were reporting the news. Isa.
SOARES: And just to frame this for us, Stefano, I mean, how much is a sentiment that was -- you know, that was put out by Petro on that long
tweet, that tirade, really, against Trump, how much is that shared by Colombians or some in the south, in Latin America?
POZZEBON: Well, surely it is shared by Colombia -- by Petro's base, the left-wing. He came on to power in 2022 on a strong anti-U.S. sentiment.
He's been a guerrilla fighter, a Marxist before becoming a politician and before becoming the president.
There is an element of almost martyrdom around Petro, the fact that he firmly believes that he's on a mission to change this country, to change
this region, and he's ready to sacrifice whatever is necessary to reach that goal.
Now, his aides, apparently, were able to sway himself out of this big confrontation with the U.S. and reach a compromise, which is perhaps what a
president is meant to be doing. This is a statement instead of a guerrilla fighter.
SOARES: Yes, clearly did sacrifice what he really wanted to sacrifice, and I'm sure his words are being dissected, I should say, in Colombia. Thanks,
Stefano. Appreciate it.
Well, my next guest is a senior fellow for Latin America, Chatham House, Christopher Sabatini, joins me now. Chris, great to have you here. I mean,
this was quite a spat. I think you saw it playing out on X yesterday. These -- both these countries have strong strategic relations, partnerships, both
economic in terms of security for years. I mean, what do you make of how it all unfolded, first of all?
CHRISTOPHER SABATINI, SENIOR FELLOW FOR LATIN AMERICA, CHATHAM HOUSE: well, I think it was a surprise and it was odd to watch this escalate in
such a way. And the truth is, is Petro originally was complaining about the treatment of his citizens, of his country's citizens. He's elected
presidents, it's his right to raise that concern.
He was echoing, by the way, the concerns the foreign ministry of Brazil had also raised about the treatment of Brazilian deportees. And so, he's trying
to strike a note of he raises concern dignity for his citizens that sort of is going to have some resonance in Brazil, in Colombia, across the region,
but also among the leftist governments. And so, that was clearly his attempt.
But I don't think he was expecting Trump to go effectively nuclear. I mean, to threaten 25 to 50 percent tariffs to halt visas, to close down the visa
office, to revoke the visas of government officials was really an over-the- top response. I think it sort of demonstrated a certain amount of disregard for the difficult position these elected presidents are in, who are trying
to protect the lives and dignity of their citizens, but it clearly worked. And we'll have to see.
But I think, you know, in many ways, though, this has demonstrated a real fissure in Trump's deportation policy. It's one thing to protect borders,
it's another thing to treat a country's or a president's citizens inhumanely, which is what Petro was complaining about.
SOARES: And -- you know, and, Chris, you know, though a trade war may have been averted for now, the kind of this tit for tat, and I think it speaks
to the point you're making, kind of highlights the expensive fallout, the one that could cause the possibility of looking elsewhere. I mean, Petro
said that -- today he said -- let me get it, from today on, Colombia is open to the entire world with open arms. And I'm guessing wink, wink,
China.
You and I have spoken at great length about China's position in Latin America and China's looking at this and thinking what?
SABATINI: Yes. Isa, as you mentioned, Colombia is a major strategic partner of the United States. It funded and helped actually achieve the
peace that Juan Manuel Santos achieved with the guerrilla groups, on take back a large chunk of Colombian territory. Colombia is an associate member
of NATO. The U.S. even has a free trade agreement with Colombia. So, this was completely unexpected.
And Colombia is one of the only countries, I think the only country in South America for which China is not its number one trade partner. And
Petro is already beginning to flirt a little bit with China. I think this really risks driving a number of these countries deeper into the arms of
China, which is precisely what President Trump and Marco Rubio, the secretary of state, want to avoid.
SOARES: Yes. Look, Petro also said, there was a lot he said, as you saw in that very long tweet, that he called for an extraordinary meeting of Latin
American presidents, he said to examine the problems of migration and drugs in America, saying, quote, "If they don't want us in the north, the south
must unite." How realistic is that?
[14:40:00]
SABATINI: Well, right now, Latin America is very divided ideologically.
SOARES: Yes.
SABATINI: You have sort of Trump like right-wing outsider candidates like Milei in Argentina, Bukele in El Salvador. Not coincidentally, Trump had a
very friendly discussion with Nayib Bukele of El Salvador, who is going to be accepting the deportees. So, it's not going to be easy to get them all
to agree.
I think this is going to be more an issue of -- for governments of the center left or the extreme left in Latin America. One of the key issues for
Trump is going to be trying to get Venezuela to accept deportees. And for that, he made a huge issue of the Tren de Aragua, which is the criminal
network in Venezuela. And it's supposed, if it wasn't true, takeover of the town of Aurora, Colombia. But we don't have relations. The United States
doesn't have relations with Venezuela, and the treatment of these immigrants.
And it's worth mentioning that even in Guatemala, Trump tweeted pictures of Guatemalan deportees in shackles being taken off the plane and saying these
were all criminals. More than 1,000 Guatemalans. It is an incredibly disrespectful way and a complete violation of the tone and patterns of
partnership that have existed between the United States and Latin America. And these issues could be raised in partnership, but they're not.
SOARES: Yes. And of course, we haven't heard anything from Maduro or from President Trump regarding Venezuela. Of course, roughly 70 percent of
migrants arriving in the United States are from Venezuela. And important to note, he's actually not going to the heart of the problem, which is where
we've been here for all those years. Chris Sabatini, as always, appreciate it. Great to see you, Chris.
SABATINI: Thank you, Isa.
SOARES: Thank you. Still to come tonight, some undersea fiber optic cables have been severely damaged. Now, European officials are looking into what
or who caused it. Our Nic Robertson was with NATO on one of its missions to protect similar targets. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Belarus' president is extending his 31-year rule after winning an election the west is calling a sham. Putin ally, Alexander Lukashenko, was
re-elected with almost 87 percent of the vote. Critics say the election wasn't free or fair. All opposition leaders have either been jailed or
forced to flee the country. Lukashenko, for his part, says he doesn't care whether the west recognizes the election results or not.
Meantime, U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio says Belarus unilaterally (ph) freed an American woman who had been detained since last month in the
former Soviet Republic.
Well, earlier I spoke with Estonia's foreign minister, Margus Tsahkna, and asked for his thoughts on the elections in Belarus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARGUS TSAHKNA, ESTONIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Let's be clear, there were no elections yesterday in Belarus. Lukashenko could have, you know, announced
as well, 170 percent of support or whatever figure it is. So, no elections. He was just repeatedly nominated himself as a dictator of Belarus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:45:00]
SOARES: And you can hear the rest of our conversation on tomorrow's show covering the war in Ukraine, President Trump's position on NATO and much
more. That's at 2:00 p.m. Eastern, 7:00 p.m. if you're watching us in London.
European officials are trying to -- trying the possibility of sabotage to undersea fiber optic cables on Sunday. A cable between Sweden and Latvia
was damaged. Latvian officials say some external force likely caused the damage, though it is unclear whether it was intentional.
Today, Swedish authorities confirmed that they had seized a bulk carrier that was passing over the cable around the time it was damaged. It comes as
NATO has stepped up patrols in the Baltic Sea. Our Nic Robertson went along on one of these missions aimed at protecting an underwater target.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): Sunrise around a hundred miles from Russia. On the near freezing Baltic Sea,
tension mounts.
NATO is retooling for a new war, a hybrid war. Ultra-modern sophisticated tech is being prepped for underwater action. Specialized subsea drones
designed to dive deep below the surface.
ROBERTSON: This is the sharp end of the mission, protecting our internet is not up there in the sky, it's under the sea.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): NATO's mission, Baltic Sentry, is a rapid response to an escalating new threat. Multiple cables cut in recent months.
ROBERTSON: And this is what the undersea internet cables look like, this size. They're tiny, they're vulnerable, they're easily cut.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): In these waters between Estonia and Finland and beyond, an unseen enemy is believed to have been targeting internet and
power cables, the subsea drones and the battleships getting eyes on the threat.
ARJEN WARNAAR, COMMANDER, NATO MARITIME GROUP 1: A lot of the ships that we found are acting strangely originate in a Russian port or are going to a
Russian port.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): This ship anchor suspected of being dragged on the seabed, intentionally damaging cables, Christmas Day.
ROBERTSON: How far have these anchors been dragged to the sea?
WARNAAR: I understand a couple of hundred miles.
ROBERTSON: Is that normal?
WARNAAR: No. That's not normal.
ROBERTSON: How does that happen? Can a captain not notice?
WARNAAR: Very good question. And my guess is no, a captain does know that, and that's probably intentional.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Repairs can be complicated, costly, and take months. Worst case, an entire nation can be cut off from the internet.
ROBERTSON: Under the sea here, there are multiple cables linking Estonia with Finland. In the Baltic Sea, dozens more. The numbers keep growing
across the globe. There are hundreds of cables.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): According to NATO, more than 800,000 miles of cable carrying $10 trillion of international trade. The mission critical
enough to have expensive fighter jets on tap. Conditions at sea level though, the biggest challenge, as we saw on a relatively calm day.
Each NATO warship bringing its own speciality. This one, sonar. Less than two weeks into the mission, commanders at sea increasingly confident who is
responsible.
ROBERTSON: And who is the threat here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Russia, that's for -- that's quite clear.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Russia denies any role, but by this day's end, more NATO nations committing forces to Baltic Sentry. The flotilla growing.
NATO HQ commanders facing tough choices.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The proof of the smoking gun, it's very, very difficult. We have to balance between this moving into something that can
become very ugly. And what I mean by that is warfare.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Nic Robertson, CNN in the Gulf of Finland, the Baltic Sea.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Now, to Africa, where Rwanda-backed M23 rebels claim to have captured eastern Congo's largest city, Goma, from Congolese forces.
Fighting has escalated in recent days, and experts warn this moment could further destabilize the region.
It is already home to one of the world's largest humanitarian crises, with more than 6 million people displaced. The rebels are one of about 100 armed
groups vying for control in the mineral rich region in a decades long conflict. The U.N. Security Council is calling for the M23 rebels to
withdraw.
[14:50:00]
And still to come tonight, it's a World Cup with a twist. We'll have details of the winner on the Pastry World Cup. Really, you do not want to
miss that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: A Chinese, pardon, A.I. startup is sending shockwaves from Silicon Valley to Wall Street. The company is called DeepSeek and it's unveiled a
ChatGPT-like model that can operate at just a fraction of the price of models from American tech giants, Meta, Google, as well as OpenAI. It has
those tech companies in U.S. re-evaluating their approach to artificial intelligence.
And the news, well, you can imagine sent U.S. markets tumbling, especially the tech heavy NASDAQ. As you can see there, down more than three and a
half percent, it was much lower early in the day. NVIDIA stocks down 17 percent actually, just check the last few minutes, down even further now at
18 percent. Our Matt Egan has more for you from New York.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: So, we are having a bit of a tech sell off this morning and it's being caused by some earth-shattering developments in the
A.I. space. There's a Chinese startup that few people had ever heard of until the past few days and it has emerged as a real player in the A.I.
arms race.
Now, we're talking about DeepSeek. And investors are stunned to learn that this Chinese startup has come up with technology that is rivaling that of
the more established players like OpenAI and Google's Gemini.
Now, DeepSeek hasn't been around for long, but it has skyrocketed to the top of Apple's app store, surpassing more established apps like ChatGPT.
Legendary tech investor Marc Andreessen has praised DeepSeek as quote, "one of the most amazing and impressive breakthroughs that he's ever seen."
The most stunning thing here isn't that China has come up with a really good A.I. model, it's how cheap it is. DeepSeek says that one of its models
only cost $5.6 million to train. Compare that to the $100 million to $1 billion that another leading A.I. company, Anthropic, has said that it
costs these days to build A.I. models.
[14:55:00]
Mark Zuckerberg said that his company, Meta, plans to invest $65 billion on A.I. this year alone. So, this is really challenging the conventional
wisdom that, one, you've got to spend gobs of money to develop A.I. tools. And B, that you need access to the highest end computer chips. Because
remember, the United States has export restrictions on those chips to China.
And so, that's why we've seen companies like A.I. superstar NVIDIA go sharply lower. Some of the companies that invest in the data centers or the
energy that would power those data centers, all of them taking a big hit. Markets were priced for perfection coming in here, skyrocketing to all-time
highs, evaluations in the tech space and A.I. in particular were really high.
So, there was always the risk of a pullback. But clearly, clearly, this is a gut check moment for the tech space and the A.I. boom. Back to you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Matt Egan there. Thank you very much, Matt.
Now, you may be familiar with the Football World Cup, but perhaps not the Pastry World Cup. The event is one of national pride, with carefully
selected teams spending years training to win the highest culinary honor. Japan was crowned victorious this year, beating France, who hosted the
competition in Lyon.
Each team is made up of three members, who are specialists in chocolate, ice and sugar, respectively. The (INAUDIBLE) had just five hours to rustle
up three desserts for representative country. Congratulations to Japan.
That does it for us. Thanks very much for your company. Do stay right here in Newsroom with Rahel Solomon is up next. I shall see you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END