Return to Transcripts main page
Isa Soares Tonight
Protesters Defy Bans in Turkey; European Leaders Responds to U.S. Group Chat Texts; Trump Admin. Defends Upcoming Trip to Greenland; Trump Signs Number of Executive Orders; Pope Francis Came So Close to Death. Aired 2:00-3p ET
Aired March 25, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, emojis and war plans. Washington and
Europe aghast as Trump administration officials discuss highly sensitive Yemen strike plans. Plus, there will be silence at sea, says President
Zelenskyy.
This as Ukraine and Russia agree to stop using military force in the Black Sea. But the Kremlin says sanctions must be lifted first. We have the very
latest. And new details emerge on the health of Pope Francis. His doctor said the 88-year-old pontiff was very close to death during his recent
hospital stay. We have the very latest for you on that.
We begin though, tonight, with the -- really the reverberations being felt today from a government group chat that leaked U.S. war plan to a
journalist in an extraordinary breach of national security. It was a text chain that included some celebratory emojis that we're showing you just
behind me from the U.S. National Security adviser following strikes on the Houthis in Yemen earlier this month.
In an already scheduled hearing on global threats facing the U.S., Senate Democrats called the leak mind-boggling. They grilled top Trump
Intelligence officials, including the Director of National Intelligence. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): Director Gabbard, did you participate in the group chat with Secretary of Defense and other Trump senior officials
discussing the Yemen war plans?
TULSI GABBARD, U.S. DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Senator, I don't want to get into the specifics --
WARNER: Ma'am, did you -- were you on? You're not going to be willing to address --
GABBARD: Conversations --
(CROSSTALK)
WARNER: So, you're not -- are you denying -- ma'am, were you -- answer my question, ma'am. You were not TG on this group chat?
GABBARD: I'm not going to get into the specifics --
WARNER: So, you refuse to acknowledge whether you were on this group chat?
GABBARD: Senator, I'm not going to get into the specifics --
WARNER: Why are they -- why are you not going to get into specifics? Is this -- is it because it's all classified?
GABBARD: Because this is currently under review by the national security.
WARNER: Because it's all classified, if it's not classified, share the text now!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Intense grilling there. When asked whether information about weapons systems that were shared should have been classified, Gabbard
deferred to Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, saying he would be more equipped to answer that question, of course, he wasn't there. She, along
with the CIA director, both echoed claims by Hegseth and the White House that no classified information was shared on the unsecured Signal app.
The hearing follows a story published by the editor-in-chief of "The Atlantic". We brought you the story yesterday. It was breaking news at this
hour. Jeffrey Goldberg, the man you're looking at there, who says he was added to a group text about Yemen war plans shortly before the U.S.
military strike.
Much more now from our Washington team, CNN senior White House reporter Kevin Liptak, chief National Security correspondent Alex Marquardt, who
broke the story yesterday roughly at this time. But Kevin, let me go to you first this evening, give me a sense of what you are hearing from the White
House, because I see internationally, domestically, certainly here in Europe, it's been one of utter shock and utter disbelief.
The White House, as I'm seeing from the statement they've just sent out, seems to be downplaying this.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Very much so. But I do think you know that feeling of shock is one that was shared among many White House
officials here yesterday when the story was breaking, sort of shocked that this could have happened by some of the top national security aides in the
federal government.
But as they have regrouped and as they have all sort of slept on the incidents of yesterday, you are seeing this concerted effort on the part of
the White House to try and downplay what precisely happened here. And you've heard from the President himself saying that he didn't think that
this breach affected the war plans in Yemen.
They didn't have an effect on the ground there. And saying that he also believed that Mike Waltz; the National Security adviser, who added Jeffrey
Goldberg to this encrypted chat, had learned his lesson in some way. But what we also heard the President say in an interview with "NBC" was that
this was a glitch.
He says it was the only glitch in the first two months of his administration, but that is a tacit -- a tacit acknowledgment, at least,
that this was an unforced error on the part of one of his senior most aides. And the question, I think, for a lot of officials here is who will
pay the price, whether there will be any repercussions?
[14:05:00]
President Trump at this stage does not seem to be in a firing mood. And what we have heard from him is that he has confidence in Waltz. We've heard
that from the press secretary as well. But there are a lot of questions about how exactly this was allowed to happen. And that is the crux of the
investigation that officials say the National Security Council is conducting, not necessarily whether any classified information was
compromised, but how a reporter was added to this chat to begin with, they insist.
And you heard this on the Hill as well today, that there was actually no classified information contained in that chat. The White House putting out
a statement earlier calling this all a coordinated effort to distract from the successful actions taken by President Trump and his administration to
make America's enemies pay and keep Americans safe.
They go on to say Biden's weakness invited these unacceptable attacks, while President Trump put these terrorists on notice. And so, you do start
to see their messaging really coming around to this idea that President Trump's rivals and President Trump's adversaries are trying to use this to
distract from those strikes on the Houthi rebels in Yemen.
The other aspect that you're starting to see out -- starting to see play out very clearly today, is trying to discredit this reporter, Jeffrey
Goldberg -- President Trump has long sort of been an adversary of his -- in his own mind because of his reporting on Trump's first administration. And
what officials say is that when the President was briefed on this yesterday for the first time, that was his initial reaction, was, how could this have
happened to Jeffrey Goldberg, this reporter whom I have tried to discredit for so long.
And so, you are starting to see the White House really sort of come around to a messaging strategy here that stops well short, of holding consequences
for those who were involved.
SOARES: Yes, a glitch is the message we heard, but no apology, which is clear what we heard from the Hill today. Let me go to Alex, because Alex, I
mean, I heard one Senate Democrat basically calling it a colossal screw up, but neither really Ratcliffe nor Tulsi Gabbard acknowledged any error.
Didn't even word glitch, right?
They're simply saying as Kevin was just outlining there, there was nothing classified to which then Senator Mark Warner, we played there, said, well,
if it's not classified, share the text now. So, talk us through the standout moments and what happens next here.
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was a remarkably partisan hearing in the Senate Intelligence Committee, Isa.
Republicans essentially falling in line with the White House and not seeming to have any issue with what happened here. And it was Democrats
who, one after the other, every single one questioned these top Intelligence officials about this extraordinary scandal and breach of
security.
Director Ratcliffe of the CIA was asked point blank whether this was a mistake, and he said simply, no. He did say at one point that it was not
appropriate for Jeffrey Goldberg to be added to this chat. I think we would all agree with him there, and it was just extraordinary to watch the length
to which both Tulsi Gabbard; the director of National Intelligence and Director Ratcliffe of the CIA, went to claim that nothing that was in this
chat over the course of several days, including the plans to bomb Yemen, was in fact classified.
They repeatedly denied that anything in that conversation was classified. I just want to remind our viewers what Jeffrey Goldberg reported that Pete
Hegseth, the Secretary of Defense said in the chat he was talking about the forthcoming strikes on Yemen, which took place on March 15th. He talked
about targets, specifically about weapons that the U.S. would be deploying and the attack sequencing.
So, the timing of this. I want to play a little clip from the hearing today where the Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona was questioning Gabbard
and Ratcliffe about what they had read. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Was there any mention of a target in Yemen?
GABBARD: I don't remember mention of specific targets.
KELLY: Any generic target?
GABBARD: I believe there was discussion around targets in general.
KELLY: Mr. Ratcliffe.
JOHN RATCLIFFE, DIRECTOR, CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY: I think that's consistent with my recollection. Again, I don't have access to that.
KELLY: Was there -- was there any mention, Miss Gabbard, of a weapon or weapons system?
GABBARD: I don't recall specific weapons systems being named.
KELLY: I'm not talking about specific. Any weapon or weapon system?
[14:10:00]
GABBARD: I don't recall specific names of systems or weapons being used or named within the --
KELLY: Well, I'm not asking whether -- I don't want you to tell me what the specific weapon was, but any weapon at all? Mr. Ratcliffe, same
question.
RATCLIFFE: I don't recall.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARQUARDT: Isa, there was a lot in there about that conversation that they did not recall. I should note that Ratcliffe did say that decisions about
strike planning should be conducted, he said, through classified channels. He also --
(CLEARS THROAT)
MARQUARDT: Excuse me. He also denied that anything that he had said himself in that group chat was classified. So, that did beg the question
from those Democrats about why they couldn't just hand over the transcript of the text. And of course, now whether our colleague Jeffrey Goldberg at
"The Atlantic" could do the same, Isa.
SOARES: Yes, very quickly on that. Will, though those senators then, will they see those texts? What happens? I mean, do we know what the next stage
is, whether there will be investigation at all on this?
MARQUARDT: Kash Patel, the FBI director who was -- who was there as well, had said -- declined to say whether he was planning to investigate. And
Isa, a lot of this will fall to the FBI, to the Department of Justice, of course, both of which are under Donald Trump's control or Congress. But
Republicans control both the Senate and the House.
Democrats have very little say here. So, it's really going to fall to the executive branch or the Republicans in Congress to carry out any kind of
comprehensive investigation. And right now, there's no indication that's going to happen.
SOARES: Yes, Alex and Kevin, appreciate it, thank you very much indeed to you both. Let's get more perspective from Sabrina Singh, a former deputy
Pentagon Press Secretary in the Biden administration, joins me now. Sabrina, welcome to the show. I mean, Alex there and Kevin, just really
laying out some of the things that we heard as you -- as you heard there.
There wasn't much of a recollection from Tulsi Gabbard and others today. Just give me a sense of what you heard today. One senator called it sloppy,
careless, incompetent behavior. One even went as far as calling it -- calling it a colossal screw up. But just give me a sense of what you heard
there, if anything, from both of them.
SABRINA SINGH, ADMINISTRATOR & FORMER DEPUTY PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: Yes, I think what you're seeing today is, you know, selective memory loss
from some of the folks, including, you know, Tulsi Gabbard and John Ratcliffe not remembering what they sent. But the reality is exactly how
these senators are characterizing these texts.
It's completely reckless. I mean, the Secretary of Defense, no matter what is being said, put operational details about an ongoing operation into an
unclassified text thread. And I think what's really important here to remember is that a classified system is very separate from an unclassified
phone.
So, that means he literally had to type up classified information, put it into this text thread, and what we're hearing from the reporting is that
allegedly, what was shared is locations, timing and potentially the leadership that was going to be targeted. When an operation like this
happens -- and when I was there at the Pentagon, you know, our fighter pilots are up in the air for hours before an operation happens.
So, if any of these text messages had ever been intercepted, their lives were put at risk by that. So, you know, I understand that there is a debate
about whether there was classified information being shared or not, if there was any information being shared before an operation, it's inherently
classified. And that's why you saw those senators pushing for those text messages to being released.
SOARES: Yes, and it will be interesting to see -- to see if they will and what that means for the -- for Goldberg at "The Atlantic", if it's nothing,
if it's not classified, then where does that leave him?
SINGH: Right --
SOARES: But let me tap into your expertise here, Sabrina at the -- you know, at the Pentagon. The Senate hearing we heard from the Democratic
Senator Mark Warner, who said, you know, make no mistake, these actions, he said, make America less safe. Do you agree with this? And if so, how does
this make America less safe?
SINGH: Oh, absolutely. It makes America less safe. I mean, when you have an operation, especially one against the Houthis, these are conversations
and coordination that happens in specialized compartmented spaces. These are classified spaces called SCIFs. That is where the Secretary of Defense,
the Secretary of State, the National Security Council can coordinate with each other or including -- being in person and being at the Situation Room.
When you are taking information that is shared in classified spaces and moving it to an unclassified and likely what is going to be their personal
phones, which an investigation will, you know, ultimately yield and find out, it puts at risk not only in operation, it does make the United States
less safe because our adversaries are always looking to intercept methods, messages from key leadership, from the national security apparatus, and
that entire national security apparatus is on that unclassified Signal text app, which, you know, anyone can have on their phone.
[14:15:00]
And you're seeing reports today that, you know, Russia is looking for ways to exploit Signal. So, this is not a safe app to coordinate on or to
communicate on about an ongoing operation or of course, any classified information on at all.
SOARES: Yes, and I also wonder if you're an ally of the United States, whether you'll be willing or partner -- will you be thinking twice about
sharing --
SINGH: OK --
SOARES: Any sort of information with the U.S., if this is the way the messages and the information is being shared? But let me ask you this, what
struck me as I was reading some of the conversation, it's the tone of the chat. It was very kind of bro like, very chummy, which to me kind of
suggests, Sabrina, that this might not be the only conversation being had on Signal. Just your thoughts.
SINGH: Yes, I think unfortunately -- you know, unfortunately the Signal thread was created and inadvertently someone added a reporter to it. We
have no idea what other conversations are being had on this platform, and it clearly seems like this is not the first time. So, it's really
concerning. I think it's right that, you know, Democrats especially are leading on this and calling for an investigation, because at the end of the
day, we want to do everything possible to keep Americans safe and our military safe.
And if you are having these conversations in these unclassified settings, there needs to be accountability for that, and there needs to be, you know,
next steps addressed so this never happens again.
SOARES: And very quickly, Sabrina, if this had happened, you know, in the Pentagon, an employee, what would happen?
SINGH: So, if this had happened when I was there, what would have immediately happened? If someone, you know, was found out that a DOD
employee was sharing information on an unclassified system, that person would be put on leave, and absolutely there would be an investigation into
this.
The problem here is that we're not talking about any DOD, State or NSC employee, we are literally talking about the most senior members of the
cabinet coordinating on a Signal thread about, you know, ongoing military operations.
So, this isn't just any employee. These are the most senior members of the national security apparatus, they need to be held accountable for that.
SOARES: Very concerning indeed. Sabrina Singh, really appreciate you coming on the show, Sabrina. Thank you.
SINGH: Thank you.
SOARES: We're going to leave the United States and turn our attention to Ukraine and Russia, because Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says
Russia and Ukraine have agreed to stop using military force in the black sea following separate talks, if you remember, with the United States. Mr.
Zelenskyy also said Moscow and Kyiv have agreed to pause strikes on each other's energy infrastructure, although, as we've seen, civilian
infrastructure is not included.
The Kremlin, however, says the Black Sea Initiative will only go into effect once sanctions on Russian financial institutions are lifted. Our
Fred Pleitgen is live with all the details from Moscow. So, Fred, just talk us through this limited maritime --
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes --
SOARES: Agreement. How realistic it is that sanctions will be lifted here are quickly at all, they -- this will go into effect?
PLEITGEN: Well, I think it's very difficult to see sanctions being lifted very quickly. The U.S. could possibly do that, and the U.S. in the
communique that the United States put out, both the one that the U.S. has with Russia or as it pertains to those meetings with Russia, as well as the
one that it has pertaining to the communications with Ukraine.
The U.S. is saying that it will or wants to help the Russians gain access to international markets to facilitate payments and also make insurance on
shipping cheaper as well or more affordable as well. So, the U.S. is putting that out there, but of course, one of the things that we have to
keep in mind that as part of those sanctions, there are a lot of other countries that are involved in those as well.
Of course, the first and foremost, the European and NATO members, other NATO members that also have pretty tough sanctions on the Russians. And if
you look, for instance, at swift, that's not something that the United States can easily hook the Russians back up to without the Europeans being
part of that as well.
So, all of that certainly doesn't appear as though any of that could happen very quickly. And that is, of course, a major caveat for the Russians in
all of this. All three communiques that we're reading, the one from the Ukrainians, the one from the Russians, and the two that we're seeing from
the United States.
But on the same topic, obviously, all say that they have agreed to this maritime, essentially ceasefire, where they are saying there's going to be
navigation, free navigation on the Black Sea, no use of force on the Black Sea, and stopping the use of commercial vessels for military purposes and
making sure that all of that is observed and checked.
But the Russians are saying that all of that only goes into force once those sanctions are lifted. And to Sergey Lavrov; the Russian Foreign
Minister actually gave a press conference here tonight where he once again made -- or he had given interview -- I'm sorry, here tonight, where he once
again made that point, saying that the Russians fear that they are going to be pushed out of international markets.
[14:20:00]
And that is why they are adamant that, that needs to go into effect first. And there's a big disagreement, as one would expect with the Ukrainians,
all of that, because President Zelenskyy of Ukraine has said that he believes that all of this goes into effect when the U.S. put out their
statements, the Russians, though, saying not so fast, Isa.
SOARES: Yes, what is clear as well is that, you know, Russia has signed up to an agreement, but asking for conditions, you know, more conditions, and
seems like not conceding much. But it is an agreement and it's progress, I think many would say, Fred, but where does this leave then the rest of the
negotiations? Because this is not the original plan that U.S. had in mind in terms of the ceasefire. So, what's next here?
PLEITGEN: No, by no means. And one of the things that we have to keep in mind is that the U.S. had a very different plan, and --
SOARES: Yes --
PLEITGEN: Some of the things that the U.S. have communicated in the past, where they said that they want a full-on, 30-day ceasefire for everybody to
sign up to it, and to then deal with all of the issues, the underlying issues of the conflict in Ukraine, of course, the Black Sea being one of
them, attacks on energy infrastructure where there does seem to be that 30- day ceasefire in place now.
But in general, of course, the big questions, like for instance, territorial questions where the Russians are saying they want all of that
to be sorted out before there can be a full-on ceasefire. So, that seems to still be pretty far off. However, what we're hearing from the Russians
here, from negotiators is that they believe that very soon, there are going to be further negotiations, that these talks are going to be moved on.
One of the things that the Russians have said about the talks that went on in Riyadh on Monday is they said, look, those were technical talks to get
things on the way to, for instance, hammer out all of the minor little issues that are out there, for instance, with this Black Sea initiative.
But of course, they were talking about other things as well.
I mean, it was 12-hour talks between the Russians and the United States. Nevertheless, as far as a full-on ceasefire is concerned, it doesn't appear
to, though, as though that, that is something that is imminent and certainly, the Russians are saying there are still some really tough
questions at hand. Isa.
SOARES: Fred Pleitgen there for us this evening from Moscow, good to see you, Fred. Thank you. And still to come tonight, Arab nations hitting out
as Israel pushes on with its plans to, quote, "relocate Palestinians out of Gaza". Plus, protests continue in Turkey and now journalists covering those
protests have been detained. We'll have the very latest for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:25:00]
SOARES: Qatar, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan are condemning plans approved by Israel's security cabinet to relocate Palestinians out of Gaza.
Israel says the relocation would be voluntary and in line with international legal standards. It didn't, however, specify where plans to
relocate the Palestinians to. Critics say that any mass displacement of Palestinians from Gaza in the midst of a war would be illegal really under
international law, and could amount to ethnic cleansing.
An Oscar-winning Palestinian director has been released from an Israeli custody after being attacked as well as detained overnight. According to
his wife, Hamdan Ballal was beaten with brass knuckles, a rifle butt and stones by a group of Israeli settlers outside his home in the West Bank on
Monday.
She said he was trying to document settlers attacking their village when they went after him. Ballal's brother says the director was treated for his
injuries at a hospital, but has since gone home. A Turkish court has ordered the detention of seven journalists covering the protests in the
country. This as people across Turkey gather once again for a night of anti-government protests.
These are live images we're showing you there from Istanbul. The demonstrations began after the rest of Istanbul's popular mayor, who is
also, of course, the main rival of the country's resident -- president. CNN's Nada Bashir looks at how Turkey has reached this boiling point.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER (voice-over): It was a shock election result, a virtual unknown, now mayor of Istanbul. Ekrem Imamoglu's win in 2019
wrestling control of Turkey's largest city from its governing AK Party and its predecessor after 25 years in power. The victory catapulted him to
national fame and set the scene for the rockiest of political standoffs.
The country's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan was Istanbul Mayor in the '90s. For a rival to win the city had seemed near impossible, and his party
demanded a recount, alleging election irregularities. An unprecedented moment for Turkey and a defining moment for Imamoglu's career. "Everything
will be fine", he told angry supporters.
A slogan then hung on billboards and chanted in soccer stadiums. They won the runoff with an even wider margin, and it's been Imamoglu's catchphrase
ever since.
MAYOR EKREM IMAMOGLU, ISTANBUL, TURKEY: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
BASHIR: Tensions with Erdogan have simmered on. Imamoglu gaining in popularity and winning a second term as mayor last year. Nominated as the
next presidential candidate for his Republican People's Party, many believed him to be on a trajectory to one day lead the country with the
potential to shake up Turkey's political landscape.
SONER CAGAPTAY, THE WASHINGTON INSTITUTE: Like Erdogan, Imamoglu is relatable and charismatic. On top of it, he's almost 20 years younger than
Erdogan.
BASHIR: Erdogan's party has political Islamist roots and has reshaped Turkey's secular state over the past 20 years. Imamoglu's party is
staunchly secular.
CAGAPTAY: It's a brand that's more inclusive than President Erdogan. He's a social Democrat in the context of European politics. He reaches across
the aisle. He's more egalitarian in his approach to politics. He has empowered a number of women in Istanbul city government.
BASHIR: Now, amid a widening legal crackdown on Turkey's opposition, there are numerous indictments against Imamoglu.
IMAMOGLU: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
BASHIR: His message last week, even as police prepare to detain him, that he, quote, "will not give up". Just days before he was named his party's
2028 presidential nominee, Imamoglu was taken into police custody on corruption and terror charges, which he denies. A political move supporters
say to keep him out of office.
President Erdogan has said opposition anger and protests are, quote, "theatrics", and says no one is outside the scope of the law. But Imamoglu
has described his arrest as a dark stain on democracy in Turkey. For now, even behind bars, this political upstart is still seen by many as a serious
threat to Erdogan's grip on Turkey's top job. Nada Bashir, CNN, in London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Our thanks to Nada for that report, and those protests, as you can see, continue for a sixth night in Istanbul. It's half past 9:00 in the
evening, and as you can see, that protests is filling -- is filling our screen there, security forces as well on the ground. We're going to keep
our eyes peeled on these images, of course, and on this story.
Any developments, we will bring them to your attention. But clearly, the people of Turkey, of Istanbul, defying those orders and taking to the
streets and expressing their anger over the arrest of Imamoglu, the Istanbul mayor. Still to come, though, tonight, harsh words in black and
white sent during the U.S. group chat text. How European leaders are responding.
[14:30:00]
Plus, the Trump administration is defending an upcoming trip to Greenland by Second Lady Usha Vance. We'll have reaction from Greenland on that trip.
That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Back to our top story this evening, the stunning group chat text for strikes in Yemen exposed the Trump administration's disdain for
European reliance on the United States. Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth derided Europe as, quote, "pathetic" as you can see, pathetic freeloaders
and Vice President J. D. Vance added, he just hates, quote, "bailing out Europe" again.
And we are now getting reaction from European officials to their words. Our Max Foster joins me now for more. And, Max, I suspect -- I mean, it
shouldn't come as a surprise to so many Europeans, because this is some of the messaging that we have heard from Hegseth, from J. D. Vance on Europe.
But seeing it printed might be quite hard to swallow.
MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the language free loading.
SOARES: Yes.
FOSTER: It has caused some offense because it's pretty offensive language, but also, as we were discussing earlier in the office, I mean, there is I
think an acceptance here, you know, whatever you think about this whole ordeal, it has made Europe aware that perhaps there is some truth to it.
They have relied too much on the U.S. They haven't invested properly in their own defense.
[14:35:00]
And even when you consider the Suez Canal, then Europe does benefit from that. But yes, it does contribute and did contribute to that mission in
Yemen. But not on any of the level that America did. So, I think they're having to own the freeloader name.
SOARES: Yes.
FOSTER: So, there's a bit of that, but there's -- the frustration is that the one thing the Europeans, particularly the U.K., through Five Eyes,
feels they do contribute to the U.S. is intelligent sharing. And that is vital to the U.S. And now, you know, frankly, there is a conversation about
whether or not their intelligence is safe with the Trump administration.
SOARES: Handing it over and of course, being exposed like it was with Signal. So, give us a sense, Max, of what you are hearing from your
European officials. I'm guessing that some that in power may not want to talk given the relations right now.
FOSTER: Yes.
SOARES: But give me a sense of the tone from European officials.
FOSTER: So, you know, Keir Starmer, British prime minister, asked about this, it is pretty vital for him because they pretty much share all their
intelligence with the U.S.
SOARES: And they're part of the Houthi attacks, right, in the first --
FOSTER: Yes. Yes, exactly. They -- he was asked a question, he's very good at tiptoeing around sort of any criticism of the Trump administration, but
he did say for any classified information that has to be communicated across appropriate security platforms. So, he didn't criticize them, but
he's pretty obviously saying he didn't think Signal was the right security platform for that, for, you know, intelligence if he was supplying it.
And then, the Democrat leader, one of the opposition leaders saying J. D. Vance and his mates clearly aren't fit to run a group chat, let alone the
world's -- the strongest military it has to make our security services nervous about the intelligence that they're -- we're sharing with them. And
he would be -- you know, get access to intelligence briefings as an opposition leader. So, he's -- he is speaking as a current opposition
leader.
And then, I think Belgium former prime minister speaks to the bigger point, which is this, another wake up call for a real European defense. When will
E.U. leaders act?
SOARES: Especially given some of the language and the proposals being put on the table from this administration on Ukraine and how Europe feels on
this. Some of the talking points that we've heard from some officials are very pro-Kremlin. I think that's a concern certainly from what I heard from
my show.
Max, I know you'll stay across this for us. Thank you very much. And Max will be back in, what, less than 20 minutes or so with his show. Thank you,
Max.
Let's get more on this. Nathalie Loiseau is a member of the European Parliament from France and chair of the Special Committee on the European
Democracy Shield. She joins me from Paris. Nathalie, good to see you. Welcome to the show. Max and I discussing there --
NATHALIE LOISEAU, MEMBER OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND CHAIR, SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON THE EUROPEAN DEMOCRACY SHIELD: Thank you.
SOARES: -- a very mixed of anger and hurt to the leak of these private messages from J. D. Vance and other top level Trump administrations
officials. Just tell me, first of all, how you reacted when you saw that printed in black and white and what you are hearing, Nathalie from your
European colleagues?
LOISEAU: Well, first I was flabbergasted because I worked very much on security issues and knowing that principles were exchanging attack planning
on a chat group with a stranger inside was worse than fiction. It could be funny if it was not so serious. Even my teenagers behave more responsibly.
But it's not really a security breach. It's one more breach of trust between the two sides of the Atlantic on the methods. Indeed. How do you
share classified information with people who would take it so likely? And we had very low expectations about the kind of respect to expect from the
Trump administration, but that was one more step in the wrong direction.
SOARES: It's quite sad to hear you say this, given, you know, the fact that it's one of Europe's strongest allies, closest allies, and the way you
framed it, it must been incredibly hard to see this printed and to swallow some of the language. But I wonder whether you can get to really -- go
ahead. Go ahead, Nathalie.
LOISEAU: Thousands of French soldiers died in Afghanistan. So, yes, it's very hard. And I spent five years in the U.S. myself. So, yes, it's a very
tough moment, but we have to be realistic and have our eyes wide open and organize ourselves in Europe, not waiting for anything positive from the
U.S. administration right now.
SOARES: Yes. And look, what was laid bare and I think it's not the first time it's been laid bare, but it's just the clarity in which it was said
is, you know what we heard from the U.S. defense secretary who said, I fully share, he said, your loathing of European freeloading. It's pathetic.
And it's a -- and it's kind of disdain that we know that J. D. Vance has articulated not so long ago, if you remember, at the Munich Security
Conference.
So, if you're a European leader -
LOISEAU: I was in the room.
SOARES: If -- so, give me that. If you're European leader, you've seen these messages. You were there at the security conference, you heard that -
- you heard if there in that room. You are thinking what here?
[14:40:00]
LOISEAU: I'm thinking that this administration doesn't want to have any ally around the world. They want to agree with authoritarian regimes on
economic deals, but alliances, they don't seem to pay attention. They don't seem to see the price of an alliance. They don't seem to have any historic
culture about what we've done together recently in Afghanistan or even now fighting ISIS in Northeast Syria and Iraq. They don't seem to be aware of
it.
You know, this novel from a Czech novelist, Milan Kundera, "The Unbearable Lightness of Being," it make me think of this title. Unbearable lightness
of being principles in the Trump administration.
AMANPOUR: And you've written on that, Nathalie, on X, you've written -- was it on X? I'm not sure if -- I think it was via New York Times -- yes,
it was on X. You said, Putin is now unemployed. No point in spying anymore. No point in crossing Ukraine. Basically, you're saying the leaks now come
from the American themselves. Trump will take care of it. Just expand on that point. On that point, of course, as negotiations are now ongoing with
Russia, of course, over Ukraine.
LOISEAU: There must be shortage of champagne in Moscow right now, because as you've seen the last discussions between the U.S. and Russia did not
come with the ceasefire. They came with little bits and pieces and the U.S. is constantly providing presence to the Russian side and putting pressure
on Ukraine and not vice versa. It's one of the widest dreams of Putin coming true.
SOARES: Yes. It is plenty of carrots as we have seen today, even with the deal that has just been assigned, of course, Russia asking for concessions,
of course, on the relief of sanctions. But we did hear from the former Belgian prime minister who said, this is another wake up call for real
European defense. When will the E.U. leaders act? And I think that is the message potentially, would you say, from this exchange?
LOISEAU: Well, unfortunately, the former Belgian leader is not in office anymore. So, he was not able to notice that the E.U. has woken up and we
are well awake. The decisions which we have taken last week by the E.U. on providing money to member states to increase their defense efforts,
everything we are doing now is really wakeup call. And the meeting that will take place in Paris on Thursday on how we provide security guarantees
to Ukraine shows that, yes, we are a power which was not aware that we were a power until recently.
SOARES: Nathalie, really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us. Thank you very much indeed.
LOISEAU: Thank you.
SOARES: Now, the Trump administration is defending an upcoming visit by U.S. officials to Greenland. While President Trump has expressed interest,
of course, in annexing Greenland. He insists these strips are meant as a gesture of friendliness. But the prime minister of Greenland rejects this
overture. Here's CNN's Tom Foreman with a very latest for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Teeth are showing at Greenland's national dog Sled race, with the Prime minister slamming a
pending visit to the contest by U.S. government dignitaries as highly aggressive and adding the only purpose is to demonstrate power over us and
fuel American belief in Trump's mission to take over the world's largest island.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: This is friendliness, not provocation.
FOREMAN (voice-over): President Trump is racing to defend the trip by second lady Usha Vance, a likely visit by national security adviser Mike
Waltz and possibly a stop there by Secretary of State Marco Rubio, too. Vance is soft selling her visit.
USHA VANCE, SECOND LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm also coming to celebrate the long history of mutual respect and cooperation between our nations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're here as tourists. Seeing it looks like an incredible place.
FOREMAN (voice-over): But these are not the first visits from Team Trump, which for months has pushed the notion that annexing Greenland is critical
to U.S. interests as America, Russia and China vie for commercial and military control of arctic waters.
TRUMP: We need that for international security, not just security -- international. We have a lot of our favorite players, you know, cruising
around the coasts, and we have to be careful.
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Denmark, which controls Greenland, it's not doing its job and it's not being a good ally.
FOREMAN (voice-over): And the point person on that argument is the second lady's husband, Vice President J.D. Vance.
VANCE: If that means that we need to take more territorial interest in Greenland, that is what President Trump is going to do, because he doesn't
care about what the Europeans scream at us. He cares about putting the interests of America's citizens first.
[14:45:00]
FOREMAN (voice-over): Greenlanders clearly don't like that talk. A January poll commissioned by Danish and Greenlandic newspapers found 85 percent
oppose joining the U.S., and many consider Trump's designs a threat even after years of cooperation including hosting a big American military base.
Things have turned upside down now with the current president in the U.S.A., the prime minister says. "We must face the seriousness of the
situation and acknowledge that every minute counts to ensure that the Americans' dream of annexing our country does not become a reality.
FOREMAN: And while President Trump insists there's a lot of enthusiasm there for the takeover, Denmark itself, which is overseeing this autonomous
nation for hundreds of years says it's not for sale, meaning the dog sled delegation may be on thin ice even before it arrives.
Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Well, let me take you to Washington. You are seeing there President Trump sitting in the cabinet room. It's 2:45 in the evening. The
president is signing a number of executive orders. We are keeping our eyes peeled, of course, given what we have been seeing, really the
reverberations that have been felt today following at that group chat that leaked U.S. war plans to a journalist and what is -- has been extraordinary
breach of national security.
We've seen several of President Trump's representatives at the -- at -- on the hill today. Tulsi Gabbard, of course, defense secretary -- Tulsi
Gabbard defending herself, but also FBI. We are listening, keeping an ear out for what the president has to say. We are monitoring it. If there's
anything new and whether he addresses this, we will of course bring that to you. But as we heard from the White House today, they consider this only a
glitch. We are going to take a short break. We'll be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: The medical staff taking care of Pope Francis considered ending his treatment so he could die in peace, that is according to the doctor who
led the team looking out for the pontiff. The doctor says, Francis' most critical moment came on February 28th when he had a breathing crisis. Of
course, many breathing crisis over that period.
[14:50:00]
For more, let's bring in our Vatican Correspondent Christopher Lamb, who's back here in London with us. So, Christopher, I mean I -- when I was
reading this, I -- first, I was surprised to hear that this doctor actually given (INAUDIBLE) but also how frank he is in this. Just bring us up to
date with how unusual this is.
CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This is all unusual and it comes from the pope himself, who right from the beginning of his
hospitalization, told the doctors to update the world with the truth about his condition. He didn't want things to be held back. And of course, in the
past, the Vatican hasn't always been transparent about papal health matters.
I think what's interesting about this interview is we get in very clear terms just how close the pope was to death during this hospitalization and
that it was thanks to the skill of the medical team and the pope's own, you know, inner resilience and strength. And he's talked about being supported
by the prayers and good wishes of Catholics and many people around the world. That's what got him through.
He's now back in the Vatican and recovering. He's got two months of convalescence as he continues his recovery. It's still very, you know,
uncertain times, I would say.
SOARES: How is he doing? Because we have in the last, what, 10, 15 minutes, we heard that King Charles is no longer going to visit the pope.
Do we have any more information on this?
LAMB: Well, that visit had been penciled in.
SOARES: Yes.
LAMB: Now, we are hearing, by mutual consent, that it's not going to happen. The pope, it seems, is determined to have this period of
convalescence. So, perhaps if he met King Charles, that would give a green light for other people to come. And so, he obviously needs to take the time
to convalesce, be obedient to the doctors because Francis hasn't always been so obedient to the doctors.
SOARES: But going back to what, he said, we had to choose -- this is a doctor saying, we had to choose whether to stop and let him go or force it
and try all the drugs and therapies possible, running the very high risk of damaging other organs. In the end, we took this path. Who decided what path
to take?
LAMB: Well, according to Alfieri, the pope's personal healthcare assistant, his nurse. A nurse called Massimiliano Strappetti, a male nurse
who is very close to Francis. He was the one who said to Alfieri and the team, continue with the treatment. And the pope had effectively delegated
medical decisions to Strappetti the nurse. Of course, it is the pope who effectively decides, but he had delegated that decision to the nurse.
SOARES: It pays to be stubborn, it seems. Chris, good to see you. Thank you very much indeed. And we are going to take a short break. We'll be back
after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:00]
SOARES: And finally, right now, more than a hundred giant egg sculptures are hidden in plain sight around London. The big egg hunt is an interactive
art show where the public can use an app to find and collect the eggs as well as win rewards. The event was initiated by Elephant Family. A charity
focused on wildlife conservation in Asia.
The eggs were designed by big names in the art, design, fashion, art, as well as food worlds. They'll be in display, if you're visiting here, until
April 27th, and then will be auctioned off to raise funds for Elephant Family.
That does it for us for tonight. Thank you very much for your company. Do stay right here. Next hour of Newsroom with Max Foster is up next. Plenty,
plenty of news. A very busy day today here. Thanks very much for your company.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
