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Isa Soares Tonight
European Leaders Meet in Paris to Discuss Ukraine-Russia War; President Trump Announces 25 Percent Tariffs on Cars Imported to the U.S.; U.S. Health Department Says It's Cutting Nearly a Quarter of its Workforce. Aired 14-15:00p ET
Aired March 27, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, European leaders stand firm on Russian
sanctions as they look to support Ukraine with reassurance forces instead of peacekeeping forces. We'll have the very latest. Plus, President Trump's
auto tariffs throw the car industry into reverse, and set world leaders on the defensive. How will other countries retaliate?
And the U.S. Health Department says it's cutting nearly a quarter of its workforce. What that means for Americans right across the country. We'll
have the very latest for you this hour. But first this hour, European leaders say they're standing with Ukraine and standing firm against lifting
sanctions on Russia.
In Paris, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy met with leaders, you can see there from the U.K., Germany and France today and so many others at
this so-called Coalition of the Willing Summit. It was a strong show of support, but ended without any firm security guarantees for Kyiv. As for
the role of the U.S. in the peace process, Mr. Zelenskyy had this eye- opening remark aimed at President Trump. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT, UKRAINE (through translator): We all need America to be stronger in relation to Russia. We really want the U.S.
President to be stronger in relation to the Kremlin's master. It is important for us. We need to work on this issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And if you are confused as to what Moscow and Kyiv have agreed to recently, well, let's just say you're not alone. Both sides have agreed to
temporarily stop attacks on energy facilities. Ukraine says it will cease fighting in the Black Sea, while the Kremlin says it won't sign on unless
Russian economic sanctions are lifted.
So, let's get more now from CNN's chief national security correspondent, Alex Marquardt, who joins us from Washington. Right here in the studio with
me is our Clare Sebastian. Thank you both for being here. There's a lot for us to get through. So, Clare, let me just start first from what we heard
from the European side, a pretty unified but blunt message from European leaders.
I heard Putin's playing games, playing for time, filibustering when it comes to this maritime ceasefire. But what did this coalition of the
willing actually agree to in terms of security guarantees here for Ukraine?
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, we don't have a firm sort of outline of what the security guarantees will look like. Yet, what we have,
according to both Zelenskyy and French President Macron is progress. They both said that more countries have said that they'll be willing to
participate in some kind of security guarantee, not necessarily the boots on the ground, but maybe air support, maritime support, that kind of thing.
So, more countries are signing on. It's not unanimous, but it doesn't have to be unanimous as French President Macron said. That's why it's called,
you know, a Coalition of the Willing. They can sign on and contribute in the ways they want. So, the next step, according to Macron, will be to send
a Franco-British team to Kyiv to talk to Ukraine about strengthening --
SOARES: The Defense Ministers, right?
SEBASTIAN: Their -- not necessarily Defense Ministers --
SOARES: All right --
SEBASTIAN: Given some kind of team, we're not sure yet who to Kyiv in the coming days to talk about, you know, how to strengthen Ukraine's army as
part of that eventual deterrent and then talk about the reassurance force, which Macron said would be deployed at strategic locations that would be
predetermined with the Ukrainians.
So, no unanimity on that yet. But when it comes to the issue of sanctions, which of course is the key conditions that Russia has put up and said that
it won't implement the Black Sea ceasefire without this, we did get unanimity on. Take a listen to some of that.
SOARES: Yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEIR STARMER, PRIME MINISTER, UNITED KINGDOM: Complete clarity that now is not the time for lifting of sanctions. Quite the contrary. What we
discussed is how we can increase sanctions to support the U.S. Initiative to bring Russia to the table through further the pressure from this group
of countries.
EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT, FRANCE (through translator): In terms of short term support for Ukraine, we also decided unanimously that this is not the
time to lift whatever sanctions are on Russia, and there will not be a lifting of sanctions before peace is clearly established.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SEBASTIAN: So, this is really good news for Ukraine. And it's not --
SOARES: Yes --
SEBASTIAN: Just words, right? It carries weight when Europe says it, because the sanctions -- most of the sanctions package were brought in, in
coordination between Europe and the U.S. Swift for example --
SOARES: Yes --
SEBASTIAN: The international payment system is based in Brussels, so, under EU jurisdiction. But I think the risk here for the Europeans, because
of course, we haven't heard from the U.S. that they are not -- that it's a flat no on these conditions that Russia has put in. Trump has said he's
looking at them.
So, the risk is that they look like they're breaking with the U.S. at a time when they are still clearly trying to salvage some semblance of unity
in this Trans-Atlantic alliance.
[14:05:00]
SOARES: You read my mind because this is a discussion we were having today in our editorial meeting. We're trying to understand whether the U.S. stand
on this. How do they read this moment, Alex? Because really, what we have heard from the Europeans, you know, sanction relief, that is a no. So, and
we know from the Russians that they have this pre-conditions, right? Yes, we'll sign up to this maritime deal.
But first, you have to take sanctions off the table. Where then does that leave the United States? Is the Kremlin -- is Putin hoping that he can
twist President Trump's arm to then push Europe to then agree to this deal? What is -- what are you hearing from Washington on this?
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, almost certainly, Isa. And obviously, there are significant concerns about the
possibility that Putin is not just playing for time, but playing the Trump administration, because there have already been accusations that the Trump
administration has given Russia concessions before these negotiations get underway.
When talking about the possibility of U.S. troops in Ukraine or NATO membership for Ukraine. So, there is certainly a fear that President Trump
is going to fall into this trap. And this has been the debate that we have obviously discussed quite a bit over the carrot or the stick approach. And
so far, we have not seen the Trump administration use any kind of aggressive tactics, pressure tactics that the Europeans are advocating to
keep Russia at the table and get them to agree to certain things.
It's actually what we have heard in the past few days is actually positions from the American side, I'm thinking specifically of Steve Witkoff, who
just came back from meeting with President Putin, that have erred on the side of the Kremlin's talking point. So, we really do have to see how the
Trump administration reacts to these talks that just ended in Riyadh several days ago, as the two -- the three sides left those talks, there was
no mention from the Americans about these -- about lifting of sanctions that the Russians have now demanded.
Remember, two-and-a-half weeks ago in Jeddah, and I was there, the Americans said that they wanted a full and complete ceasefire that
Ukrainians immediately signed on. And then from there, it really hasn't progressed very far. Yes, there is this 30-day moratorium on the fighting,
the targeting of energy infrastructure.
But even just this Black Sea deal does not seem to be really going anywhere. What we have heard from the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, who
is traveling this week, is that this is an agreement in principle. But they say that there are more discussions that need to be had on these new
Russian conditions.
So, we have not heard from the Trump administration that they are planning on lifting these sanctions. But Clare is making a terrific point that over
the past few years, the U.S. and the EU have done all these things in conjunction with each other. Could we be reaching a point where we see some
kind of divergence, and we have President Zelenskyy saying there needs to be more American pressure on President Putin. I think that is certainly a
feeling that is shared by the Europeans as well.
SOARES: Yes, and President Zelenskyy made that point several times today in Paris. There is on that then, just picking up from what Alex said, there
is also some cynicism. If the -- even if Europe does go it alone, let's just say the U.S. is not part of this, how it would actually work over this
force, Clare, you know, reassurance force.
So far, I know it's Coalition of the Willing. So far --
SEBASTIAN: Yes --
SOARES: Only France and the U.K. have really thrown their weight around it. Do we know where it goes from there? Do we know what capacity there
will be, what role they will play? Because I'm guessing they will still want that sort of backstop from the United States. And maybe that is the
play that Europe has here, waiting for more clarity on this front before turning to President Trump.
SEBASTIAN: Well, I think they were clearly treading a very fine line today, right? Because obviously, they allowed this message on sanctions to
come through very clearly. And certainly, President Zelenskyy also allowed sort of a level of bluntness to come through on his -- on the U.S. saying
that U.S. needs to be stronger, even as he spent the last several weeks sort of mopping up the damage from that Oval Office bout, and repairing his
relationship with Trump.
I think in terms of this force, it's clearly being presented as a deterrent. They're not using the word peacekeepers. They're using the word,
"reassurance force". It's going to be positioned away from the frontline. It's designed to sort of deter rather than actively engage. And then in
terms of the U.S. backstop, we just don't know at this point.
There's been no clear signals from the U.S. The Europeans are waiting to see, which is why you see this strenuous effort to sort of keep the U.S.,
the Trump administration engaged. President Macron even spoke to President Trump. Before this summit today, he didn't rule out in his press conference
afterwards that he would speak to him again.
SOARES: Yes --
SEBASTIAN: So, they are studiously trying to keep the Trump administration engaged, but of course, there is -- they have to allow for the -- for their
message on sanctions, and on the Russian preconditions and how damaging they've been to an eventual ceasefire to get through there.
SOARES: In the meantime, the diplomatic dance continues and the attacks, of course, continue in Ukraine. Clare, thank you very much indeed, and,
Alex, thank you very much for talking us through these negotiations, appreciate it.
[14:10:00]
Well, from Kyiv, we're joined now by Ukrainian parliament member Oleksiy Goncharenko, a well-known guest here on the show. Oleksiy, great to have
you back on the show. I'm not sure whether you heard the discussion that I was having there with my colleagues over what we heard from, you know, from
European leaders.
I really want to touch on the point that Clare was making. This idea of sending a French and British delegation, you know, calling it a reassurance
force and not peacekeepers. How would this work in principle? What is this force going to do? How will that deter Russian attacks here or if it's a
policing mechanism?
OLEKSIY GONCHARENKO, UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER: Hello, first of all, we are definitely looking for a European contingent, not for delegation.
Delegation is great, but I mean, the final aim should be to have European boots on the ground. Yes, we understand clearly that they will not fight,
and they -- maybe they will be kind of peacekeepers.
Oh, I think it's also possible like President Macron was saying, he started to say this a year ago about sending contingent to Ukraine, which can
operate, for example, secure Ukrainian-Belarusian border, giving us possibility to free our forces, to fight against Russians, also to make
training missions inside Ukraine, cybersecurity, demining.
A lot of missions where European boots on the ground can be involved without an actual participation in hostilities. So, I think that would be
great thing from Europe, because now we want to see how Europe is stepping in, in the moment when it's not clear how the United States will continue
to support Ukraine.
So, that would be a great thing if they would do this, and that would be a symbol and signal to Putin that he will not achieve his maximalist goals in
Ukraine. I think that would be very powerful, and that is very needed.
SOARES: Twin question then here, Oleksiy, you know, we heard Macron saying that, you know, these -- this reassurance force there won't patrol the
contact line, but strategic areas. I wonder what you interpreted by strategic areas. Will these be special facilities? And in your last point
that you made there, regarding the United States, where then do you read this?
Because at the moment, it's France, and it's U.K., is this enough? And what happens on Intelligence in the air? Do you still -- still pushing for this
U.S. backstop and the U.S. support, be it in those two ways, if obviously desirable?
GONCHARENKO: First of all, your first question, I think French, I know they're interested in Odesa, Black Sea is super strategic, super important.
So, for example, French base, French units can be in Odesa, in the capital of the Black Sea. British units can be, for example, in the northern part.
So, there are possibilities, and one more thing which Europeans can do, and I just address them that they should do this, is to concentrate air defense
on the Polish, Ukrainian, Romanian-Ukrainian border from the Polish and Romanian side.
But creating kind of umbrella, at least over the part of Ukraine where their forces will operate. I think this is very needed, and also can be a
very strong step. Speaking about -- and by the way, one more thing which we await from Europe is definitely seizing of Russian frozen assets.
SOARES: Yes --
GONCHARENKO: It's time to do this. In other case, Russia will raise this issue and try to negotiate this, too. Speaking about the United States,
it's super important for us to have at least some U.S. involvement. For example, this contingent can be led by American General. Just one, two
boots on the ground, not too many, but these two boots would be really super important if United States can do this. And definitely air and
supervision and Air Force, that's also very important. That's how I see it.
SOARES: Yes, and so, Oleksiy, going back to the conversation I was having with my colleague Alex Marquardt in D.C., you know, we heard what Putin had
to say, that yes, he will sign to this maritime deal with preconditions, right? With the sanction -- the lifting of sanctions and the Swift system.
Europeans have been very clear.
No, that is a no. Forget about it. That we heard very clearly today. Where then does the conversation go from here? Because we have yet to hear from
the United States on the next steps. I mean, they're all talking. There's lots of summits, there's lots of noise, but everything is moving very
slowly. So, where does it go from here?
GONCHARENKO: That's a very good point. And I don't know. We will see. But I want to tell about Putin and negotiations. This agreement on the Black
Sea is super beneficial for Putin. It's not really so beneficial for Ukraine, because we already, by force, opened the Black Sea for the ships
that come in to the ports of Odesa and leaving them and without any Russian acceptance or agree on this, we don't need it.
[14:15:00]
But Russia today, they -- and they are interested in this truce on the Black Sea because they have a Black Sea fleet, which is partly already
destroyed by Ukraine, and they want to at least keep it safe, at least, part of it. Ukraine doesn't have this issue because we don't have a fleet,
but we have sea drones, which are very effectively destroying Russian fleet.
So, they need it. And even in these, they are trying to win the time and they are dragging feet, and they are doing all this stuff. It shows that
Putin doesn't want any peace. And I think it's already clear for American negotiators. And I think we're moving to the moment when President Trump
should use not a carrot for Russians, but a stick, because unfortunately, Russians, they don't understand the language of carrots.
They understand only the language of force, the language of stick. And I think the moment is coming because in other case, these negotiations will
really give us nothing.
SOARES: Yes, and this is actually what we heard from European leaders, even from Prime Minister Starmer, Russia is playing games, Putin's back to
his old playbook. Really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us, thank you very much, Oleksiy as always, great insight. Thank you.
GONCHARENKO: Thank you.
SOARES: Thank you. Well, global leaders are reacting to U.S. President Donald Trump's newly announced 25 percent tariffs on all imported cars.
Britain's Finance Minister Rachel Reeves says the U.K. does not plan to impose retaliatory tariffs on car imports for now. South Korea's government
says it will work closely with its country's auto industry and Washington to lessen the impact.
Japan's Prime Minister says his country will consider all options in response to the tariffs. Shares in South Korea and Japanese automakers fell
on Thursday as a result. Germany's Chancellor, meanwhile, says President Trump's decision is wrong and will hurt everyone. The country's car lobby
is calling for immediate negotiations between the U.S. and the EU. We're also waiting -- I've got Anna Stewart here for us, with me to make sense of
this.
We're also waiting, and apologies if I have to interrupt -- if we can bring up the image, waiting to hear from the Canadian Prime Minister as well to -
- his reaction to this, no doubt that we'll hear from him on this. But first, give me a sense of what -- how leaders are reacting. Let's start on
leaders reacting, and that's a live shot. Thank you very much for bringing it up to my director. What has been the reaction? Is anyone here going to
retaliate?
ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: So, no tit-for-tat tariffs as of today. But we've had a real spectrum of responses. And for instance, Canadian Prime
Minister Mark Carney has called it a direct attack on Canada. And we are waiting for those comments. It's interesting. Mexican President says April
3rd is when they're going to give a comprehensive response.
We know that the EU has delayed half of their tariff plan until after so- called Liberation Day, so they can absorb it all and discuss. But what has been interesting, actually, particularly with the EU, is perhaps how it's
splintering a little bit. So, you have the EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, playing it pretty straight, saying, you know, we'll continue
to seek negotiated solutions.
We're going to have to discuss this. But you also had President Macron of France saying, you know, the tariffs are a waste of time, create a lot of
uncertainty, and Europeans will respond by reciprocating. And it was a similar line from the German Economy Minister. So, certainly, there is
appetite here for a retaliation.
President Trump last night in a post on Truth Social really interesting, said if the EU works with Canada in order to do harm against the U.S., they
will get even bigger tariffs than, you know, can currently be expected.
SOARES: All right, so, if you go -- if you go behind our backs and do another deal, then --
(CROSSTALK)
STEWART: So, whether or not it is founded, there is concern from the Trump administration --
SOARES: Yes --
STEWART: That not only could there be retaliation, but some of these countries could gang up together.
SOARES: And we shall see if Prime Minister Mark Carney addresses that when he speaks as we wait for that. Talk to us, we'll get to how this impacts
U.S. consumers in price of autos. But how are stocks? I'm thinking here -- when I heard of the news yesterday that this was happening, I immediately
thought of Germany auto stocks and the impact that was going to have. What has it been the impact?
STEWART: The impact has been really interesting. Obviously, we were expecting auto --
SOARES: Yes --
STEWART: Tariffs at some stage, particularly for Europe, but still we saw a big share price reaction. We saw actually right through the day from Asia
where Hyundai, Toyota, Nissan, right through to Europe. And you're right, Volkswagen, BMW, some of the big car brands also took a knock. But also
really interesting, the U.S. stocks are probably the worst hit today.
General Motors down 8 percent for most of the day, I think it's come back ever so slightly, but this is going to show that it's such an
interconnected sector --
SOARES: Yes --
STEWART: It doesn't matter if you are the best known U.S. car brand, and you make your cars in America, you rely on parts from elsewhere.
[14:20:00]
SOARES: So, what does that mean for U.S. consumers, if you are talking about these tariffs? How much will price of cars of -- you know, go up in
the United States potentially here?
STEWART: I mean, it's costing everyone, and it will cost the U.S. consumer at the end of the day. The analysis today has been, it could range from
anywhere between $3,500 and $12,000 a car. And that is for a car made in the United States. We're not even talking about a Ferrari --
SOARES: Yes --
STEWART: Being imported from Italy. And it's also punishing a lot of European carmakers, for instance, who have factories in the U.S., who have
made those investments, but again, rely on parts from elsewhere. And that won't change instantly. It will take years if any kind of really sort of
onshoring is to happen. It won't happen until the end of the Trump administration.
SOARES: Anna, do stay around for us in case, of course, we do hear from Mark Carney on these tariffs, appreciate it meantime, thanks very much,
Anna. Well, one suspect is under arrest and four people were injured in a stabbing incident in Amsterdam. And it happened near Dam Square, an area
in the central part of the city that's popular with tourists.
Police say the suspect was overpowered with the help of a citizen, and they add a motive remains unclear. But an investigation, we've been told is
underway. Still to come tonight --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We're forced to come up to the fourth floor even though the building may collapse, says Manar(ph). We have
to get internet connection from an E-SIM card so we can download our lectures.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Their classrooms have been reduced to rubble, but these young people in Gaza are determined to beat the odds and complete their
education. We'll bring you their story. And coming up later in our book club, my conversation with Catherine Airey about her stunning debut novel,
"Confessions".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CATHERINE AIREY, AUTHOR: I really like that none of the characters sort of end up in this happy, ever after --
SOARES: Yes --
AIREY: Sort of marriage --
SOARES: Yes --
AIREY: Dynamic, where they're -- that is the place that they get to. And I didn't want one romantic sort of relationship to be upheld as something
that would sort of fix the characters, although it should be seen as an end goal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: I want to take you live to Israel. These are live images you can see, they're coming to us from Tel Aviv where it's 8:24 in the evening.
Large crowds of protesters are on the streets this hour of Tel Aviv. It's an outpouring, as you can see, of anger and frustration coming after
Israel's parliament today passed the law giving politicians more power over how judges are appointed.
[14:25:00]
Legal watchdogs have been warning the new law will undermine judicial independence in the country, and opposition groups are accusing Prime
Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government of a systematic dismantling of Israeli democracy. Thousands of people have already taken part in protests
as this week, as we've been showing you after the Netanyahu government moved to dismiss Israel's Attorney General and then sacked the head of
Israel's internal security service, Shin Bet.
So, a lot of political internal dynamics and pressures on Netanyahu, of course, as the war against Hamas in Gaza continues. We'll keep our eyes, of
course, on these images and any news that comes out of Tel Aviv. I want to leave Tel Aviv for a moment and turn to Gaza, because hundreds of
Palestinians have also taken to streets this week in what has been a rare public show of opposition to Hamas.
CNN crews have seen large crowds gathered in what appeared to be the largest demonstrations against the militant group since the war began. It
is the civilians in Gaza, of course, who are paying the price for this war and in more ways than we can really possibly imagine. Officials estimate
that more than 600,000 children have missed out on at least one year of school.
For those who do still have access to their education, their classrooms and playgrounds have been left completely unrecognizable. As our Paula Hancocks
now reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Learning to write the letter D, "dal" in Arabic on what's left of the chalkboard. Basic
education that Gaza's young have been denied for so long. This was last December when the war was raging, where rubble was their playground and a
building that looked ready to collapse their place of learning.
"Many children were initially too scared to come", the teacher says, "because of the destruction all around." Thirteen-year-old Farrah
Zakzouk(ph) was one of the students grieving for lost relatives, but determined to learn. "My school had everything", she says. Chairs, pencils,
notebooks and chalkboards. Now we sit on rubble. If we find a notebook among the ruins, we try to use it."
During the two-month ceasefire, Farrah(ph) walked on the ruins of her school in Khan Younis, a seventh grader who used to be top of her class. 'I
feel no ceasefire", she says. "There's destruction everywhere. It's the same as war." What had changed is she had space to realize how much she had
lost. No home and no school.
"I feel my heart is ripped apart like I'm in pieces", she says. "I don't know how else to describe it." And now, a devastating return to war
threatens the limited education spaces that had been created.
PHILLIPPE LAZZARINI, COMMISSIONER-GENERAL, UNRWA: It's as important as providing life-saving assistance. And the more we wait, the more we take
the risk to sacrifice an entire generation.
HANCOCKS: Pre-conflict just under half of Gaza's school age children attended UNRWA's schools. Israel has since banned the U.N. agency's
presence in Gaza, accusing it of ties to Hamas, which the U.N. denies. More than 95 percent of educational facilities in Gaza have been partially or
completely destroyed since October 7th, 2023, according to a U.N. report released last November, including many that have been turned into shelters.
Israel's military claimed many were used by Hamas as command and control centers, making them legitimate targets, an accusation Hamas denies.
Sisters, Manar(ph) and Rawan(ph) should have been close to graduating from university by now. One is an architect, the other is a pharmacist. The war
forced them to continue their studies remotely, almost impossible given the scant electricity and internet, they were displaced multiple times.
"We're forced to come up to the fourth floor even though the building may collapse", says Manar. "We have to get internet connection from an E-SIM
card so we can download our lectures." Almost half of Gaza's population is under the age of 18. For them, education is a lifeline, a hope for a better
future that has been taken away from them. Paula Hancocks, CNN, Abu Dhabi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Thanks to Paula for that report. At least, six people are dead and nine others injured after a tourist submarine sank off Egypt's Red Sea
coast. That is according to Egyptian state media. Twenty nine people were rescued after security forces and rescue teams responded. The Russian
Embassy says the submarine was carrying 45 Russian tourists.
[14:30:00]
It was on a regular underwater expedition to view coral reefs when it crashed a short distance from the shore. An investigation into what caused
the sinking is underway.
Still to come tonight, big cross cutting hits to another U.S. government agency. We'll see who and what is impacting in a live report coming to us
from Washington, just a few minutes.
Plus, grabbed off the street in broad daylight. Details ahead on what U.S. officials are and are not saying about the detention of a Tufts doctoral
student. Both those stories after this very short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy has announced sweeping changes to department he leads,
including massive layoffs and the elimination of entire agencies. Kennedy says at least 10,000 full-time workers will be laid off, and what he
acknowledges will be a, quote, "painful period." Employee notices could go out as soon as Friday.
[14:35:00]
HHS includes vital services like the Food and Drug Administration and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. And this massive
restructuring comes as the worst measles outbreak in U.S. in decades is surging and is spreading and as concerns grow over a potential bird flu
pandemic. The new job cuts come in addition, this is important, to thousands of previous layoffs, all buyouts.
Let's get more from our medical correspondent, Meg Tirrell. So, Meg, just give us a sense of, you know, really these essential health services that
will be impacted and what the response has been from them.
MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, there's real shock to the depth of these cuts that we are seeing and just how quickly they're all
going to happen. As you noted, we're seeing 10,000 new firings of full-time employees across health agencies being announced today, that's on top of
10,000 previous departures. So, altogether, the size of the Health and Human Services Department is being reduced by about a quarter, from 82,000
employees to 62,000 employees.
HHS says this should save taxpayers $1.8 billion per year. And they say that they're trying to streamline things and get rid of redundancies by
basically taking 28 divisions and consolidating them into 15.
Now, as part of this Robert F. Kennedy Jr. also said he is creating a new agency. Here's what he said about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., U.S. HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: If we're going to eliminate an entire alphabet (INAUDIBLE) of departments and
agencies, while preserving their core functions by merging them into a new organization called the Administration for a Healthy America, or AHA.
We have two goals. The first is obvious, to save the taxpayer money by making our department more efficient. And the second is to radically
improve our quality of service.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TIRRELL: Now, AHA obviously sounds a lot like MAHA, Make America Healthy Again. Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s slogan, but they're really wrapping five
agencies from across HHS into this one agency, including the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, the Agency for Toxic
Substances and Disease Registry and the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health.
But we are going to see cuts across all of the agencies we're familiar with, from the FDA, 3,500 employees, the CDC, 2,400, the NIH, 1,200, 300
from CMS. Now, HHS is trying to say that this will not affect services like Medicare and Medicaid, which is under CMS. They're also saying this won't
affect reviewers of food, medical devices, and drugs at FDA or inspectors there as well.
But, Isa, I'm talking with people who are saying, you can't make cuts that are this deep, this big and not affect the federal health services that are
provided by these government agencies. And what I'm really hearing is fear that these are going to be so sweeping that you are going to take out some
of the people who do these really obscure things and only they know how to do them. And they're incredibly important. And if you get rid of those
people, it's really hard to replace them and it could really slow things down. Back to you.
SCIUTTO: Indeed. Meg Tirrell, thank you. I think they could come up with a better name than AHA. But anyway, that's a conversation for another time.
Thanks, Meg. Appreciate it.
Now, nearly 48 hours later, we still don't know what a Tufts University doctoral student from Turkey is being charged with in the United States.
Rumeysa Ozturk was arrested and taken into custody by masked federal agents on Tuesday. The Fulbright Scholar is accused -- and look at the video of
how she was approached, accused of engaging, quote, "activities in support of Hamas."
Though the U.S. government has not yet offered any specifics, a short time ago, Secretary of State Marco Rubio confirmed Ozturk's visa has been
revoked, and he said hers is just one of hundreds taken away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Every time I find one of these lunatics, I take away their visa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It could -- you're saying it could be more than 300 visas?
RUBIO: Sure. I hope -- I mean, at some point I hope we run out because we've gotten rid of all of them. But we're looking every day for these
lunatics that are tearing things up. And by the way, we want to get rid of gang members too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And it comes as a growing list of international students. Take a look at them from across universities are being targeted by the Trump
administration immigration crackdown. We just looked at some of the names on your screen right now of those who have been detained. Our Priscilla
Alvarez has all the details for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Rumeysa Ozturk is the latest string of arrests in the United States of foreign nationals linked to prestigious
universities and purported to be related or have ties to a terrorist organization.
Now, the administration is using an obscure law to target these individuals. It gives the secretary of state authority to revoke a visa if
that individual or individuals is believed to have an adverse foreign policy consequence.
Now, there are no charges against Rumeysa, according to her attorney. She was here legally. But the Department of Homeland Security, which has not
provided evidence, said the following in a statement, quote, "DHS and ICE investigations found Ozturk engaged in activities in support of Hamas."
They go on to say, "Glorifying and supporting terrorists who kill Americans is ground for visa issuance to be terminated."
[14:40:00]
Now, as you see in the video, she was approached by plainclothes officers while she was walking, and it was then that they detained her, arrested
her, and then detained her. This was an issue that came up in court where a judge said that she should not be moved out of Massachusetts. The
Department of Homeland Security saying however that they had already moved her to an ICE facility in Louisiana. She becomes the third student to be
detained in that facility.
Her family believes that it is an op-ed that she wrote last year that has served as the basis for this, where she criticized the response to the pro-
Palestinian movement. Her brother saying in a statement, quote, "It seems that she has been subjected to the activities of ICE, which has been on a
witch hunt in the post-Trump period against those who support Palestine." Going on to say that, "The land of the free, the freedom of expression and
the freedom of belief are under -- or rather that they have been targeted."
Now, the secretary of state, Marco Rubio, did weigh in on this, and he has suggested that there are more to come, saying that there may have been more
than 300 visas to date that have been revoked. Now, again, the secretary of state here is critical in the invoking of this law to, again, revoke visas
from those who they deem could be national security threats.
But the major concern with immigrant advocates and immigration attorneys is that there is not evidence that is being provided to justify or serve as
the basis for this, or at times, the evidence that is being presented is flimsy, and that has been a major concern and is also part of ongoing
lawsuits. But certainly, the administration indicating that they are not backing down anytime soon. Back to you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Yes. Thank you very much, Priscilla Alvarez. Not only flimsy, but absent as we have seen so far. We'll stay across that story for you.
And it looks like there won't be any criminal charges for an intelligence breach by senior Trump officials. U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi is
downplaying the security implications. The top U.S. law enforcement official says, well, the chat contains sensitive information, she's
claiming it was not classified. That echoes other Trump officials who have deflected or downplayed the importance of the breach. Bondi's Justice
Departments would take the lead if criminal charges were ever considered against officials who shared of an attack in Yemen with a journalist.
Of course, at least one defense official tell CNN the chat would have meant a court martial if the participants were an (INAUDIBLE).
And we have some news just coming into CNN. President Donald Trump is withdrawing his nominee to be the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations.
Mr. Trump had, if you remember, tapped House Republic Elise Stefanik to serve in that role. But her move would -- actually, to the U.N. would leave
Republicans with an even smaller majority in the House. And President Trump has said, I'm going to quote him here, "With a very tight majority, I don't
want to take a chance on anyone else running for Elise's seat." He writes, that people love Elise and with her, we have nothing to worry about come
election day. There are others that can do a good job at the United Nations. Therefore, Elise will stay in Congress. Rejoin the house
leadership team and continue to fight for amazing American people. We'll stay across that story for you.
And still to come tonight, my conversation with debut novelist Catherine Airey, where she explores how secrets and confessions shape our lives.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:00]
SOARES: And no, E.T. is not calling home just yet. A dazzling blue spiral mesmerized European star gazers on Monday. Let me show it to you. With this
footage captured in an English village there of Billingborough. However, the celestial mystery was short-lived. Experts believe the glowing
spectacle was likely caused by the exhaust of a SpaceX rocket launch interacting with the atmosphere. Nonetheless, it's a marvelous sight to be
seen.
And happy opening day for all the baseball fans out there. I know there are a few in my team. Thursday is the official start of Major League Baseball
in the U.S. as well as Canada. It is the time of the year when last year's wins and losses are forgotten and fans renew their belief that their team
can win it all. Keep on believing. Although, the season technically started last week with the Tokyo Series, between the Los Angeles Dodgers and
Chicago Cubs, the Dodgers won those games. Let me know who you think is going to win. We'll have much more after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And joining us today in the Book Club is Catherine Airey with this fantastic book called "Confessions." Catherine, welcome to the show.
CATHERINE AIREY, AUTHOR, "CONFESSIONS": Hi. Thanks so much for having me.
SOARES: This is an incredibly emotive and immersive book and it covers -- and it centers around, I should you say, four women across three
generations, from the 1970s to present day.
[14:50:00]
Tell us about the crux of the book here. Because there's lots of themes that'll break down afterwards. But tell us about the synopsis, first of
all.
AIREY: It's a family saga that follows women who are within the same family, but in different times and places. At the center, it's the story of
two sisters who have a troubled relationship and we see how the sort of secrets that they have in their lives are passed down through the
generations and still reverberate through time.
SCIUTTO: To me, reading it, it clearly is focused, like you said, Catherine, this intergenerational trauma, but you have themes of addiction,
adoption, rape. But the main theme, as obviously the book suggests, confessions, really focused on secrets and the weight of those secrets and
the impact those secrets can have in terms of -- between families among generations. Why did you decide to focus on that main theme, secrets?
AIREY: I grew up in a Catholic family. And I'm not going to say that my family like had loads and loads of secrets. They definitely had no more or
less, I guess, than other families. But I think it is something that sort of stuck with me in my childhood. I also grew up in the house, that was my
grandparents' house, and I was a very curious child, perhaps the author within me was already sort of looking for stories and looking for stuff.
SOARES: You said that your grandmother, she kept secrets. And one of the biggest secrets, from what I understand, was the fact that it was her
accent when she moved to London. Can you tell us about that?
AIREY: Yes. She moved to London just after the Second World War. She definitely faced quite a lot of discrimination as an Irish person, I guess.
And she was also a doctor at a time when women weren't really doctors, particularly in Ireland. So, I think she did have to sort of keep a lot of
that in and perhaps, you know, wouldn't want her accent to be heard out on the tube.
The secrets were kind of always there. And she also, like myself, struggle with like mental health and addiction problems and then she was diagnosed
with dementia when I was 14 years old, which I think led even more to this sense of there being stuff inside you that -- and memories that sort of
haunt you.
SOARES: This is your debut novel. For viewers, for those on social media, on book talk who are interested in writing, how did you even start? How did
you decide -- why did you decide this is the moment to do it?
AIREY: It was always something I'd wanted to do, and I kept a diary since I was seven. So, I had that practice there. And I think I'd been waiting
for maybe 10 years thinking this idea will come to me and I will write this novel, but I wasn't doing it. And that was really getting me down and it
was COVID and I thought, you're not really doing what you want to be doing.
So, I think it was a combination of different things. But I'd moved to Ireland in the summer of 2021, and I was recently single, and I was
thinking a lot about my life and I'd gone through my 20s and I'd not done this thing, and then I thought, what an incredible freedom to be able to go
and quit my job and move to another country. That was a huge freedom.
SOARES: Yes. Well, I'm interested if there was one character that came to your mind first that really spurred on the whole thing.
AIREY: Yes. I think the opening paragraph in the novel, that voice did come to me pretty fully formed. And so, that's 16-year-old Cora Brady.
She's living in New York City in 2001. And it did come to me quite clearly, I think, once I've decided that that's what I was going to do. I've changed
various bits of it. But yes, she came to me first and it was 20 years since 9/11 happened at that point when I was writing, and it was October. So, it
was just been the 20-year anniversary. So, that must have been in my head.
SOARES: And the dynamics are really fascinating of these incredibly strong women. But the relationship with men and the role men play here are
interesting too. Talk to us about that.
AIREY: When my sister read the book, she said, I really like that none of the characters sort of end up in this happy ever after sort of marriage
dynamic where there -- that is the place that they get to. And I didn't want one romantic sort of relationship to be upheld as something that would
sort of fix the characters or that should be seen as an end goal.
SOARES: But some of the men, intentionally or unintentionally, kind of drive a wedge between some of these women. Was that intentional?
AIREY: I wanted the novel to exist very much in the real world, and I was living in Ireland while I was writing and doing a lot of historical
research to try and make it seem authentic. And I think I realized that it's only really, really recently that women kind of have been able to
exist without the power of men getting in the way and affecting their choices.
So, yes, I wanted to show women trying to make choices, but those choices being taken away from them and it being men who would often be sort of
changing the direction of their lives without them necessarily saying yes. So, I think it's kind of a question of consent in a way, but looking at it
a bit more broadly than sexual consent. Although, that comes up as well.
[14:55:00]
SOARES: There's also the aspect of abortion through the book. And I wonder whether that was done on purpose given the times that we are living, I'm
thinking in the United States now, where we're seeing the rollback of -- you know, of rights for -- so many rights for women. Was that done on
purpose or were you thinking more the themes of that time, do you think?
AIREY: I don't think it's a coincidence that that was happening in America at the time that I was writing it, that was coming up. And it was something
I was thinking about because I've moved to a country where abortion had only very recently been made legal, which was in 2018 when the people in
Ireland, they had a referendum and voted to make abortion legal, which I think people would be sort of surprised that it only happened so recently
when in the U.K., abortion's been legal for a long time.
And I think it just made me look back on my own life and realize that my teenage life and early adult life would've been very different if I'd grown
up in Ireland. I just realized that that's a huge freedom, a huge sense of freedom, whether it's something that you need access to or not, knowing
that you could get an abortion if you needed to, I think, is a huge freedom that I certainly think needs to be fought for and that lots of people in
lots of countries still don't have that.
SOARES: I really appreciate you coming on the show. I'm going to pass you the book and ask you if you do as the honor of signing it.
AIREY: Thank you.
SOARES: There you go.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And our thanks to Catherine Airey. For all our Book Clubs, you can go to our website, Isa's Book Club on CNN's website.
That does it for me for tonight. Thanks very much for your company. Max Foster is up next with Newsroom.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
