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Isa Soares Tonight
U.S. Markets Plunge As Trump Confirms 145 Percent Tariffs on China; Woman Jailed in Russia Over Ukraine Charity Donation Freed in U.S.-Russia Prisoner Swap; Trump Administration Strips 300-Plus Legally Obtained Visas from Students at More Than 50 Universities in the U.S. U.S. Stocks Plunge Thursday; Tariffs on China Now at Least 145 Percent; Tariffs Could Impact Pharmaceutical Drugs; Prada Buys Versace. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired April 10, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, reality sets back in on Wall Street.
U.S. stocks, as you can see, are sinking again after Wednesday's historic rally. Despite, of course, a calmer day in European markets which we'll
bring to your attention in just a moment.
This all -- this thread as the White House confirms even higher tariffs on China. But how high is President Trump willing to go? We'll bring you the
very latest from Washington. Plus, a Russian-American woman released. We'll bring you the latest on this prisoner swap between Moscow and Washington.
But first, sinking back into reality less than one day after the U.S. President paused most of his reciprocal tariffs. U.S. stocks are tumbling,
and tumbling quite significantly once again. Let me bring you the big board so you can see. As you can see, live markets there, Dow down just almost 3
percent. It was sharply lower two hours or so ago, almost 5 percent or 6 percent, S&P 500 down just over 3.5 percent, similar picture with the
Nasdaq, 4 and three-tenths of 1 percent, red arrows right across the board.
And the picture you're seeing out of the United States is very different to what we have been seeing in Europe. Let me show you the European markets
because they have closed, and they rose, as you can see sharply today. What a -- you know, difference 24-hour makes. Biggest gainer there, Xetra Dax by
far in Germany.
But green arrows right across the board. Asian markets, that's the European view. Asian markets also surging higher, surged higher today, Nikkei up 9
percent, Hang Seng, Hong Kong Hang Seng up 2 percent and the Shanghai index just over 1 percent higher. The White House, meanwhile, is saying today
that its tariff on all Chinese imports is actually 145 percent at least.
Just let that sink in. That number you're seeing on your screen, that is higher than previously believed. There is still a 25 percent tariff on
certain Canadian as well as Mexican imports, 10 percent on nearly all other nations, as well as 25 percent for steel, aluminum and auto imports. And as
this trade war escalates, many experts believe the U.S. and global economies could fall into recession. Just moments ago, President Trump
spoke on the U.S. markets wild swings. Have a listen to what he just said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We had a big day yesterday. There will always be transition difficulty, but we had a -- in history, it
was the biggest day in history, the markets. So, we're very happy with the way the country is running. We're trying to get the world to treat us
fairly. And this is something that should have been done 25 years ago, and it wasn't.
It should have been done 40 years ago and it wasn't. But no President was willing to take it on. But you had to -- it's not sustainable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Let's get more on all these angles. Betsy Klein is tracking Mr. Trump's plan on tariffs from the White House, Anna Stewart is here, we're
in London. Do stay with us, Betsy. Let me go to Anna very quickly, because I think it's important for us to look at these stock markets. The U.S.
markets -- if we can bring that back up, because I think it's so important.
Paint us such a different picture to what we saw in Europe and in Asia. But it shows Anna, as we look at red arrows across the board, and significant
losses at the moment that really investors are not confident in what this administration's tariff plan is. Give us a sense of what the reaction has
been beyond the stock market.
ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, even prior to the announcement that the tariff on China is not 125 percent, it's actually 145 percent. We were
actually already seeing U.S. markets in the red. And more than that, we're actually seeing a decline in asset prices really across the board. And what
we're seeing here is assets relating to the recession risk.
The risk of a recession has not changed even with this 90-day pause. So, we are seeing sharp declines in the oil markets. We are seeing the U.S. dollar
falling sharply against all major currencies, even, Isa, the ten-year treasury yield, which of course, is something the President says he was
watching, it hasn't moved that much today at all. So, that relief rally we saw yesterday in Wall Street, that is firmly over at this stage.
[14:05:00]
SOARES: Stay with us. Let me go to Betsy. And Betsy, in the meantime, we have heard the President -- we played a little clip there of him meeting
with his cabinet. And whilst he meets with his cabinet, we are hearing him say -- you know, we're seeing the world's two biggest economies kind of
engaged in a stare-down.
And it's unclear at this point who is going to blink first. Where are we on any sort of negotiations with China, as of course, we see imports, you
know, goods coming from China to U.S. increase of 145 percent.
BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE PRODUCER: Yes, it's a great question. And there's been so much whiplash both at the White House and on Wall
Street. And President Trump, for his part, signaling openness, continued openness toward making a deal with China. But if yesterday was a victory
lap for President Trump, really highlighting his decision to pause these tariffs today, the reality is setting in that the U.S. is in an
increasingly intensifying trade war with China right now.
Those 145 percent tariffs in place, as you mentioned, President's economic adviser, Kevin Hassett, really downplayed any concerns that this was a
trade war. He said, hopefully, this is the beginning of a fruitful negotiation. But Hassett said and told reporters earlier today that
everyone with skin in the game in the President's team would be meeting today at this cabinet meeting that we just witnessed moments ago, still
ongoing.
The President told his cabinet he believes they're all doing an incredible job, even as we've reported that there is both internal and public sparring
about how to proceed amongst the President's economic advisors. But those cabinet members, just moments ago going around the table, heaping praise on
the President and his trade policies, even as stocks tumble. The President, for his part, offering a more sober assessment. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Everybody wants to come and make a deal, and we're working with a lot of different countries, and it's all going to work out very well. I
think it's going to work out really very well. We think we're in very good shape. We think we're doing very well. Again, there will be a transition
cost and transition problems, but in the end, it's going to be -- it's going to be a beautiful thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KLEIN: We are witnessing that transition cost right now. It appears in the markets. But the President said he would still like to get a deal with
China, he called China's President Xi, quote, "a friend". And we do expect many world leaders here at the White House in the coming days and weeks to
nail down some of those trade deals that are already in progress.
The White House could potentially have a goal of bringing together some allies in the region. For example, South Korea and Japan together to cut a
broader deal with China, that is one of the potential negotiation goals at play here. Isa.
SOARES: Stay with us, Betsy, let me go back to Anna, just on that point, picking up from what we heard from the President. He also said I could make
every deal in one day. Looking for a deal, at least, sounding like they want a deal. Is the European Union, how likely is that going to happen in
90 days? What do you hear from the European side?
STEWART: It could happen, and clearly in one day for President Trump. Well, the interesting thing -- and we can show you European markets
actually, is they are significantly higher. The Xetra Dax is up 4.5 percent. Now, a lot of this is due to the fact that there is a huge amount
of relief, that actually there is a 90-day pause. The tariff is a 10 percent, and for the EU, it looks like negotiations may actually happen.
Because you have to remember at this point, the EU is being one of the big targets for the President's ire.
SOARES: Yes --
STEWART: They have offered zero-for-zero tariffs on industrial goods, on autos. It went absolutely nowhere. So, this pause for the EU feels quite
meaningful. However, there is a warning, Ursula von der Leyen, who is the EU Commission President, added to her announcement if negotiations are not
satisfactory, our counter-measures will kick in.
And they're also going to keep talking because the measures they announced yesterday were actually only on the steel and aluminum tariff reaction. It
wasn't on autos, it wasn't on the 20 percent tariff that was announced, it was implemented yesterday before it was lifted. So, there's a lot more
potentially to come.
SOARES: We shall see, and I heard -- we heard from President Trump, they will be dealing on the EU as a whole rather than individual countries. I
think President Maloney is going to the U.S. sometime, I think, is it next week? So, we shall see what comes out of this. Anna, thank you very much.
Our thanks as well to Betsy.
Betsy, appreciate. Betsy Klein there for us outside the White House. Thank you. Well, earlier, CNN spoke with former Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen
in an exclusive interview. Here's a little of what she had to say. Have a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANET YELLEN, FORMER U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: This is the worst self- inflicted wound that I have ever seen in an administration impose on a well-functioning economy. It is if you take the whole complex of Trump
policies, tariffs that, as I just said, could cost the average household up to 4 -- around $4,000 a year.
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The DOGE cuts in services, whether it's for our veterans, Social Security, the Internal Revenue Service, the agencies, the public interacts with a
spending plan that is likely to involve huge cuts in Medicaid and food stamps that lower income families particularly rely on, all in order to
support tax cuts that mainly benefit the wealthy.
You had an administration that said its worker focused, and I really can't think of an overall economic agenda that could be more devastating on every
front, from tariffs to cuts in government services, to leaving very large deficits, taking policies that will expand the deficit when we need to see
exactly the opposite. This is going to be devastating for American households and workers.
BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: And quickly, the likelihood of a recession due to President Trump's economic policies, in your view.
YELLEN: Well, it's clearly risen. And in addition to the tariffs --
(CLEARS THROAT)
YELLEN: In the negative likely impact on consumer spending. We have a huge uncertainty shock. No one knows where any of this is going.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And that is the problem indeed, as we showed you in the markets. In about 15 minutes or so, we'll be joined by Jason Furman. He's a
professor at Harvard University and serves as Chairman of the White House Council of Economic advisors under President Barack Obama. You do not want
to miss that conversation in roughly 20 minutes time right here on the show.
Now, a Russian-American woman is now free and headed back to the United States. Ksenia Karelina had been serving time in a Russian prison for a
little more than a year on treason charges. She was sentenced to 12 years in prison after donating to a pro-Ukrainian charity. Her release is part of
a prisoner swap with U.S. releasing Arthur Petrov; a Russian-German national who was being held on smuggling wire fraud as well as money
laundering charges.
I want to go to our Fred Pleitgen who is keeping an eye on this story. So, Fred, what more do we know about Ksenia Karelina and this prisoner
exchange?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know she's on her way back to the U.S. right now. Apparently, they took off from
Abu Dhabi after that exchange took place there. They then went for refueling somewhere in Europe, and now that jet is on its way back to the
United States.
There was a picture that was posted by the Trump administration of Ksenia Karelina in that jet holding an American flag, together with some of the
State Department staffers who were on that plane as well. So, certainly right now, some very good news for her, some very good news for her family,
and certainly some very good news for her boyfriend as well, who, of course, has been making the rounds, trying to get her released.
But as far as this release is concerned, I think this is another really important signal between the Trump administration and the Putin
administration in Moscow about trying to reach some sort of rapprochement, trying to build trust between the two sides. That, at least, is the way
that Kirill Dmitriev, who of course, was one of the top negotiators for the Russians, sees it.
Now, we know, Isa, that this is already the second American who was released since President Trump took office in February, of course, the
teacher, Marc Fogel, who was in jail on drug charges in Russia was released. And already then, the Trump administration said they consider
this a goodwill gesture. And that's exactly what the Trump administration is saying now.
All of this, of course, coming as the efforts to try and reach a ceasefire in Ukraine doesn't really seem to be moving forward at this point in time,
where you heard the Trump administration saying that -- or President Trump saying that right now, he isn't really very happy with the lack of
momentum, and also some of those very severe missile and drone strikes that have been happening in Ukraine by the Russians.
And so, therefore, this could be another goodwill gesture on the part of the Russians. And what we know is that in the past couple of days, of
course, as that top negotiator, Kirill Dmitriev was in Washington D.C., for talks, that's really when this exchange appears to have gained momentum.
They had been talking about it for a while, but that's where it really gained momentum.
And of course, we know on the Russian side, Arthur Petrov of course, he was in jail being charged, especially with export violations, apparently for
trying to acquire micro electronics in the United States, to send those to Russia for those to be used, the U.S. says in Russia's war effort in
Ukraine. But certainly, both sides hailing this as another trust-building moment between them as they're trying to get relations back on track.
And of course, this happening today is probably no coincidence either, as the U.S. and Russia sat together in Istanbul to try and normalize
diplomatic relations between the two countries.
[14:15:00]
Of course, one of the big issues that the U.S. and Russia both have is that their diplomatic installations in each other's countries have been all but
gutted, so very difficult for any consular services to take place there. Isa.
SOARES: Certainly improvement, a thawing -- the thawing of relations between both sides whilst we wait, still wait for a deal on Ukraine. Fred
Pleitgen there for us in Berlin. Appreciate it, Fred, good to see you. Well, as President Trump encourages Palestinians to leave Gaza so he can
turn their homeland into a Riviera, a major European power could be on the verge of recognizing an independent Palestinian state.
France, a permanent member of the U.N. Security Council says it can make the move in June. Nearly, 150 other countries already recognize a
Palestinian state, but most major western powers do not. President Emmanuel Macron says France is committed to a political solution. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT, FRANCE (through translator): We need to move towards a recognition of a Palestinian state. And so, in the coming months,
we will, and I won't do it for the unity or to please this or that person. I would do it because I believe that at some point it will be right. And
because I want to participate in a collective dynamic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Meanwhile, the Israeli military has fired Air Force reservists who publicly criticized their motivation into -- for the Gaza war. In a letter
published in major Israeli newspapers, reservists and Air Force retirees accused the IDF of fighting for, quote, "political purposes without a
military goal."
They called for an immediate return of the remaining hostages in Gaza, even if it requires an immediate ceasefire. The IDF says it cannot have members
who serve coming out and expressing, quote, "a lack of confidence in the mission." Still to come tonight, a judge has given the U.S. government
until tomorrow to submit evidence against a Columbia University student who's been detained for more than a month. We'll have that latest.
Plus, the Trump administration continues to revoke student visas, but declines to clarify what the criteria actually is. We have a live report
from -- on that story just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: U.S. House Republicans are advancing key parts of President Trump's tax cuts and border priorities. Speaker Mike Johnson had been
holding around the clock negotiations with Republicans who oppose the high cost of the budget bills. Senate Majority leader John Thune joined Speaker
Johnson, a united front, both trying to reassure House Conservatives that the Senate would later back spending cuts.
[14:20:00]
The Republican holdouts wanted Thune's commitment to future spending cuts before approving the budget. Well, President Trump is using the power of
the Justice Department to go after two officials who criticized him during his first term. He's ordered investigations into former Homeland Security
official Miles Taylor and former cybersecurity official Chris Krebs.
Taylor wrote an op-ed, an opinion piece, anonymous, at first saying he was part of the resistance against Mr. Trump, and Krebs rejected Mr. Trump's
claims of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election. The President called Taylor a traitor, suggesting he is guilty of treason. We'll stay across
those stories for you as they develop.
Now, a federal judge is giving the Trump administration until Friday to provide evidence to support its case against Mahmoud Khalil. He is, if you
remember, the Columbia University graduate student and pro-Palestinian activist who has been held in a Louisiana detention center since his arrest
in New York last month.
Khalil, a legal U.S. resident the administration is trying to deport, is accused of, quote, "terrorist and anti-Semitic activity." Next hour, his
legal team is set to hold a briefing on what may happen at the hearing tomorrow. We'll have more details in the next hour. Meantime, the Trump
administration continues to strip legally-obtained visas from more than 300 students at a long list of U.S. universities as part of its immigration
crackdown.
We brought some of those stories to you in the past few weeks, but U.S. officials declined to say exactly what the critera(ph) -- the criteria, I
should say, pardon me, they are using to revoke those documents. One student has, in fact, spoken to our Gloria Pazmino really about the fear
and the uncertainty he has been facing after his visa was revoked.
And really, this is his motivation to speak out -- speak out. So, Gloria, just to -- give us a sense of what you heard from this particular student,
what did he say?
GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Isa. You know, over the past few days, ever since these visa revocations started here in the United
States, we really set out to try and understand how this was happening, why it was happening, and just how many people it's affecting. So far, CNN has
confirmed that more than 345 students, scholars, faculty members here in the United States have been affected by this immigration crackdown.
Now, student statuses are being revoked at several universities. Often they are not being told about it, they're finding out after the fact. And this
is creating a lot of panic, a lot of fear and a lot of uncertainty. And for that reason, there's a lot of concern among students and not really a
desire to speak publicly because they are afraid given what's happened in these other high profile cases where people have been detained.
So, I met Jason Ma yesterday, he is a student at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. He's a Chinese national, and he's been here
since 2016 pursuing his education. He is expected to graduate in December, but he told me last night that now he has no idea if he's going to be able
to do that. He has started to pack his bags in the last few days just to be prepared, but he made it clear that he really does not want to leave. Take
a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JASON MA, STUDENT STATUS REVOKED AT CARNEGIE MELLON UNIVERSITY, PITTSBURGH, PENNSYLVANIA: I have, you know, my suitcase half-packed and it's a real
possibility. It is something that I'm mentally preparing for, I just want my life to go back to normal. I want to go back to school, finish school. I
want to, you know, not have to worry about getting arrested.
And I trust that my school is doing everything they can to help me, but it doesn't help when they're confused about what's happening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAZMINO: Now, you are seeing Jason there with his attorney, who explained to us that Jason previously had a DUI charge on his record, but he had that
charge dismissed in court after he completed a course that was ordered by the court, and that case was dismissed and expunged from his record. Now,
it's not clear to them whether that's the reason the status has been revoked.
They have gotten no information from the federal government, no explanation about the revocation of status. So, they are in the space of really not
knowing how to proceed. Jason told me that he's going to continue to go to classes until someone tells him that he can't. So far, the university has
not revoked his enrollment.
Isa, he also told me that he hasn't told his parents in China about the situation that he's been facing here in the last several days. His mother
is sick with cancer, one of her last wishes is that he can complete the education that he's been working on so hard over the last few years.
[14:25:00]
So, a really good reminder that behind all of these numbers, there are real people and lives that are being affected by this policy.
SOARES: Indeed, or lack of details on this policy, lack of clarity is just heard. That is having a huge impact on so many students. Thank you very
much, Gloria Pazmino there with that important sound and interview. Thank you Gloria. Still to come tonight in our book club --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNETH ROTH, AMERICAN ATTORNEY & HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST: I felt a duty to speak up and apply the human rights principles that we applied in 100 other
countries around the world, to Israel as well. You know, some making Israel exception to these human rights principles that weakens the principles.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: At the helm of Human Rights Watch, for three decades, Kenneth Roth tells me of the backlash he faced as a Jew in the pursuit of upholding
human rights. And more on our top story, the Trump tariff retreat and market fallout. A former chairman of the Council of Economic advisors joins
me after this very short break. Do stay right here. You are watching CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back everyone. The U.S. stock market is down sharply once again one day after its third best day in modern history. Let me just look
-- show you the numbers of how they're faring right now. Dow Jones, you can see there, down just over 2 percent, S&P 500 almost 3 percent lower.
The Nasdaq faring the worst of this hour, 3.5 percent. The Dow has eased somewhat. It was down from the last time I saw, close to 6 percent. So, it
is retreating somewhat. But red hours right across the board, very different picture from what you saw in Asia and in Europe. And President
Trump today offering a more sober estimate of the aftermath of the tariff pause.
During a cabinet meeting just in the last hour, he said there may be, quote, "transition problems, he said, as markets plunge again.
Meantime, there's analysis of the real impact of the tariff turmoil, data from research group called the Budget Lab shows Trump's latest tariffs will
cost a typical U.S. middle class household more than $3,400 a year.
Let's get more on what has been a rollercoaster ride. Jason Furman joins. He's a professor at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government and is the
former chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers. Jason, welcome to the show.
We are looking at the stock markets, keeping my eye on the board, down 2 percent, is somewhat from the earlier trading, but it has been, look, eight
days of upheaval. Investors panicking. Bond markets tumbling. And now, we have a pause, a U-turn.
Though markets, as we -- as I look at them today, Jason, don't seem convinced by this administration's tariff policy, your reaction to not just
what we've seen, but also the strategy, the rationale, if there's one behind all of this.
JASON FURMAN, FORMER CHAIRMAN, COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS AND PROFESSOR, HARVARD KENNEDY SCHOOL: Yes, I did not understand the magnitude of
yesterday's euphoria. Definitely it was good news that the president cared about markets. Definitely it was good news that he backed off some of these
tariffs, but the place he backed off to is still a very, very high level of tariffs. Moreover, there's still a very, very high amount of uncertainty
about how he's going to handle this tariff going forward. This is not a situation that any economic decision maker should feel good about.
SOARES: What do you make then, Jason, of the pause? Why did he buckle? Because he said yesterday that the bond market was getting queasy. Was this
it? Was this what rattled him?
FURMAN: Every story has actually been quite consistent that it really was the bond market. And I was talking to people who were quite nervous about
what was going on, even using words like financial crisis.
SOARES: Yes.
FURMAN: Frankly, I was more sanguine about the bond market. When there's a lot of dysfunction. It's something the Fed actually can step in and handle.
What the Fed can handle though is the inevitable increase in both the rate of inflation and the rate of unemployment that is ahead of us.
SCIUTTO: We heard from President Trump who was meeting with his cabinet just in the last hour, and he said, as he was discussing his tariff
policies, there'll be a transition cost and transition problems. We think we are in a very good shape. Does this look like the U.S. is in a very good
shape right now?
FURMAN: It doesn't look good to me. We were in good shape, by the way. I mean, we now have the economic data for March. March looked like a
perfectly wonderful month for the U.S. economy. I mean, one might have had the attitude, if it's not broken, don't fix it. And certainly, don't fix it
with a sledgehammer.
But going forward, you know, there's going to be, you know, things that we have never seen before. Trading relationship as large as the United States
and China coming to an abrupt almost end in the way it's going to.
SOARES: We heard from Janet Yellen who spoke to my colleagues on the show today, and she said that Trump's tariffs are the worst inflicted wound that
I have ever seen. She also said this, Jason, have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANET YELLEN, FORMER U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: We have a huge uncertainty shock. No one knows where any of this is going. We're now in a huge war
with China and the tariffs that have been imposed on China are what I would call prohibitive. They're going to result in massive impacts on the United
States and the global economy. No one knows where these policies are headed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Do you agree with that? You also went on to talk about U.S. credibility. What impact will this have on U.S. credibility right around
the world?
FURMAN: I absolutely agree with everything that Secretary Yellen just said there. And that's the issue, China is out aggressively saying, we are the
country you should trust. We follow rules. We, you know, understand that trade is positive some, and can benefit both parties. And they're making
some headway. The United States right now is an incredibly unreliable partner to anyone in the world, and I don't know how we're going to get
back to being reliable.
SOARES: Yes. In meantime, Trump doesn't seem to be backing off really any sort of his, you know, alarming trade war with China, even though he said
in the last hour, I have great respect for President Xi. He's been a friend of mine for a long time. I think that we'll end up working out something
that's very good for both countries. I look forward to it.
[14:35:00]
So, just speak before we get to any sort of deal, because we're talking about 90 days here for the rest of the world, what are the consequences you
think here, Jason, singling out China with this kind of high levels of tariffs? We're talking 145 percent right now.
FURMAN: Yes. I mean, the economic relationship with China is a fraught one, but at its core are enormous benefits to both countries. Benefits that
we are giving up now. It's going to mean lower growth in the United States lower growth in China. I think they'll be better able to protect themselves
from the hit. They can't fully protect themselves, but they have measures that they can and are deploying domestically to support their economy.
We're actually not doing anything resembling that here in the United States. But this is a -- you know, this isn't a ga a win-lose game. This is
a lose-lose.
SOARES: It's a long wait for the moment to see until we get any sort of deal, and this is just the beginning. Jason Furman, really appreciate you
taking the time to speak to us. Thank you, Jason.
FURMAN: Thank you.
SOARES: Now, President Trump's tariff plans could soon impact the prices of pharmaceutical drugs in the United States. The president says he's
trying to bring drug manufacturing back to the United States. However, patient advocates warn the tariffs could actually drive the price of drugs
higher and create shortages. Our Medical Correspondent Meg Tirrell has a story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, pharmaceutical tariffs were left out of that original round of tariffs that President Trump announced
on what he called Liberation Day, April 2nd. But he did talk in that speech about why he has pharmaceutical tariffs in his sights. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: The United States can no longer produce enough antibiotics to treat our sick. We have a tremendous problem. We have
to go to foreign countries to treat our sick. If anything ever happened from a war standpoint, we wouldn't be able to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TIRRELL: Now, essentially, universally experts agree that this is a problem that needs to be fixed, but they warn that tariffs are
unfortunately likely to make this problem worse before they bring any manufacturing back to the United States, if they do that at all. And it
really comes down to the fact that most antibiotics are generic medicines. These are older medicines that sell sometimes for pennies per dose, which
is really great for their accessibility, but it creates a very fragile ecosystem around creating them. And in fact, 92 percent of prescriptions
dispensed in the U.S. are for generic drugs.
Now, here's how experts say tariffs could cause more drug shortages. Generic medicines have very low profit margins, so they're sold for not
much more than it costs to make them. But there are also limits on how much generic drug makers can raise the price of generic drugs, both because of
group purchasing organization contracts that typically are locked in for a few years, also because of laws that exist that limit their ability to
raise drug prices faster than the price of inflation.
So, if the price of the inputs, the ingredients that go into these drugs starts to rise, but you can't raise the price commensurately, that could
actually make it unprofitable to manufacture these generic medicines. And that could cause some of these manufacturers, experts tell us, to just
decide to stop making the drug or providing it for the U.S. market.
And already we see a lot of drug shortages out there that are causing problems for patients and for hospitals and doctors, and antibiotics are
one of the top five categories where we see these shortages. But we also see them in things like cancer and chemotherapy drugs, and many other drug
classes. So, this is a major problem.
But unfortunately, tariffs, experts tell us, will likely make this problem worse in the short-term, and they're not convinced because it's so
expensive to build manufacturing plants and takes a long time in the United States that this is actually going to bring manufacturing back.
We should also note that on branded medicines, those pricier drugs, this could potentially raise those prices even further, making pricey drugs even
more expensive.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Thank you very much to our Meg Tirrell. And be sure to join us Friday for an interview with Ireland's finance minister. We'll talk to
Paschal Donohoe about its concerns on tariffs and pharmaceutical exports. Mr. Donohue is also president of the Euro Group, which shapes E.U. economic
and fiscal policy. We want to join us for that interview Friday at 2:00 p.m. Eastern. That's 7:00 p.m. GMT.
Now, fashion giants Prada and Versace will now be under one roof after Prada has struck a deal to buy its rival for more than $1.3 billion today.
Prada is moving to expand after slowdown in luxury demand while Versace has been running at a loss in the last few quarters. The deal comes after
Donatella Versace announced in March that she will be stepping down as the chief creative officer of Versace founded of course, by her late brother
Gianni. The huge move unites two of the biggest names in Italian fashion.
And still to come tonight, CNN goes the hometown of a trailblazer in the sporting world. We catch up with U.S. women's football team, head coach
Emma Hayes in the London Borough of London. That's next.
[14:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, this week we are turning the spotlight on pioneers of business, sport, and tech as part of our CNN series "Visionaries." When it
comes to leaders in sport, Emma Hayes is the top of the pack. The championship winning coach of U.S. women's national football team credits
her London roots with much of her success. Here's our Amanda Davies.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Excuse me, love.
AMANDA DAVIES, CNN WORLD SPORT (voice-over): Emma Hayes is no stranger to being the center of attention regarded, as one of the most successful
football coaches in history. Her career has taken her all over the world, but Emma's roots remain here in Camden.
DAVIES: Emma, it's fab to speak to you. I didn't expect to be sitting here in Camden talking to you.
EMMA HAYES, MANAGER, U.S. WOMEN'S NATIONAL TEAM: Neither did I?
DAVIES: What does home mean to you and how has it shaped kind of who you are today?
HAYES: Oh, I will be here all day with that, but driving here today, going past school and driving past the house, the flats that I grew up in was
really emotional. And I was with a couple of my friends talking about like the impact Camden had on my life, I'd even talked about like times I'd been
in this pub over the years, and I think this diverse, eclectic, multicultural neighborhood I think had -- has had such a big impact on who
I am.
DAVIES (voice-over): Emma's journey to one of the most coveted positions in football manager of the iconic Olympic gold medal winning U.S. women's
national team began simply with a love of the game.
DAVIES: And what was it about football that drew you to it as a game, but equally that you saw had such an ability to do more than just be a game?
HAYES: I just don't know anything else. I -- my mom was asked this the other day when someone said, when did Emma start playing? And she said, the
minute she came out of my womb. I was the kid that would come home from school, drop my school bag, run down to the pitch, play till 10:00 at
night, stop for dinner. My dad has always been at the heart of that, I think watching a lot of football, Italia. All of those things I just -- I
couldn't imagine a life without football. I just couldn't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:45:00]
SOARES: And you can see more from Amanda's interview with Emma Hayes on "Visionary" premiering this weekend. And still to come on the show tonight,
"Righting Wrongs" in the latest edition of our Book Club. Kenneth Roth tells me why the common wisdom that autocracy is beating democracy doesn't
necessarily ring true. That conversation next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Joining us today on the Book Club is Kenneth Roth, the author of "Righting Wrongs." Ken, welcome to the show.
KENNETH ROTH, AUTHOR, "RIGHTING WRONGS": Great to be with you, Isa.
SOARES: This is a fascinating and such a timely book to be reading. For those who don't know you, I think you're very well-known right around the
world, you were the director of Human Rights Watch for three decades.
ROTH: Correct, yes.
SOARES: And your role has been, as the title here, suggests to try and convince world leaders to protect human rights, stop them from abusing
human rights. Just tell us, give us a sense over those three decades, first, Ken, what you took away, what worked and what didn't work over that
time?
ROTH: Well, Isa, the reason I wrote this book is, you know, when I would tell people that I defend human rights, they would kind of look at me and
say, oh, isn't that nice? You know, and they just couldn't believe that you could do anything. You know, they envision us like sitting around, holding
hands and singing kumbaya. And what I wanted to show is that the defensive human rights is a matter of hardball.
We, you know, figure out what are the pressure points and we push on them. And there is always something, that's a big lesson from the book. There's
always something that the leaders care about and the human rights movement can deprive them of it until they change. It's always at least their
reputation, but often it's something else that they want from the rest of the community. They want arms sales or military aid, or a preferential
trade package or, you know, to be invited to a fancy summit. Whatever it is we can get allied governments to say, no, until you fix these serious human
rights problems. And I tell story after story in the book about examples of just how we got stuff done.
SOARES: And some of the stories, and -- you know, you peppered your book with some wins and some losses, covering everything from Rwanda to Iraq, I
mean, kind of China. And so, much more, Guantanamo. Covered a lot of ground and a lot of angles and crises that are still topical today.
[14:50:00]
But you also talk of a strategy of pressure points. You call it, leverage here. So, speak to that. Speak to the leverage. How you steer these
governments? What -- how do you approach them, first of all?
ROTH: Well, I mean, the first thing to remember is in today's world, everybody pretends to respect human rights. It's a matter of, you know, how
you tell the people in your country that you're serving them, not just yourself. And so, a big tool of the human rights movement is to spotlight
the discrepancy between this high pretense and the ugly reality. And that is shameful. It's embarrassing. It delegitimizes governments. They hate it.
And they always push back. And you know, they always say, oh, you know, you're biased. You misunderstand. You were deceived. But we're right.
And when we get into these battles of the facts, we win and they lose, till ultimately, they recognize they won't get rid of the bad press until they
change the bad conduct. And that's when we make progress.
SOARES: And you have -- as any of your followers will know on X, you have faced numerous accusations. We focus just on Israel. And you really, the
wrath, you felt the wrath of the Israeli government for many, many years as we know. And I just want to read one part from your book that stood out to
me. I mean, this is a great chapter anyway. It's the part on Israel. Apart from my position, you write, as Human Rights Watch director, the vitriol
was in part the product of my significant following on Twitter, although it started long before that, I drew higher (ph) because having survived so
many of their attacks, I did not hesitate to spotlight Israeli abusers or the hypocrisy of the Israeli government's defenders. Indeed, I felt a
responsibility to do so. I'm sure that part of what drove these partisans' crazy is that I am Jewish.
Speak to that. Speak to what you have faced over the years.
ROTH: Well, just first in terms of my background. I am Jewish. I was brought to the human rights cause in significant part because my father
fled the Nazis as a young boy. He grew up in Frankfurt. He fled to New York in July 1938. I grew up with Hitler stories. I grew up very aware of the
evil that governments could do.
SOARES: And your grandmothers have faced anti-Semitism, right? Is that right?
ROTH: Oh my -- on my maternal side, my grandparents fled the -- you know, the anti-Semitism of Poland and Belarus. So, on both sides of the family I
came from this background. And so, when people, you know, accuse me of being anti-Semitic, it's just ridiculous. I mean, I just dismiss it.
Indeed, I think it harms the very important fight against anti-Semitism because anti-Semitism is a real problem that you face.
SOARES: Yes, absolutely. As we've seen. Yes.
ROTH: But if people think that charges of anti-Semitism are just an excuse to save Israel from criticism, it cheapens the concept at a point where we
need a strong defense against anti-Semitism.
But, you know, knowing that they're not going to get away with the usual slurs, I felt a duty to speak up and apply the human rights principles that
we applied in a hundred other countries around the world to Israel as well. You know, some make an Israel exception to these human rights principles
that weakens the principles, and I felt if I couldn't stand up for these, you know, nobody could.
SOARES: Yes.
ROTH: So, that was just an important part of my job.
SOARES: What is the message? You know, how do you see the state of human rights? Because we are seeing the rise of the -- of autocracy, of
autocrats? Do you still have faith in the institutions? What can we do as individuals here, Ken?
ROTH: Well, first, in terms of the global contest between autocracy and democracy, I think the common wisdom that the autocrats are winning is not
entirely true. Because if you look at most of the world that has lived under autocrats, they want out, they want democracy. And we've seen these
mass protests in country after country. You know, sometimes overthrowing the autocrat is in Bangladesh or Sri Lanka.
The real problem has been in western democracies, established democracies where people who are left behind are more ripe for the autocrats appeal.
So, we do need to, you know, do a better job of shoring up the established democracies.
In terms of what can ordinary people do, and I get this question a lot, the key tool, as I show in the book, of the human rights movement, is the
capacity to shame, to reflect governmental misconduct off the public sense of right and wrong. And in today's world where people tend to trust most
their family members, their friends, their work acquaintances, what you say, you know, around the coffee machine, what you say on social media
actually reinforces people's sense of right and wrong and provides the foundation that the human rights movement needs to move governments.
So, we kind of need everybody in this effort. It's not a specialized effort. You can leave it to a few groups. You need this to be a kind of a
common purpose.
SOARES: Speak up.
ROTH: Yes.
SOARES: Thanks very much.
ROTH: Exactly.
SOARES: Ken, great to have you on the show.
ROTH: Thank you, Isa.
SOARES: I'll pass your book. If you do as the honor.
ROTH: Of course.
SOARES: There you go.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[14:55:00]
SOARES: A very good advice there from the wonderful Ken Roth. And our love of books on the show stretches far and wide, including to America's largest
book seller, Barnes & Noble, CEO James Daunt tells our Richard Quest what he's reading right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES DAUNT, CEO, BARNES &AND NOBLE: I'm James Daunt CEO at Barnes &and Noble. And I'm reading this quite amazing book. Arundhati Roy, "Mother Mary
Comes to Me," it's her autobiography. She is an extraordinary writer. This is a funny, brave, sometimes shocking, extraordinary book about at the
heart of a relationship between a daughter and her mother, both of them formidable. Every page has got words of wisdom on it. Things that make you
be startled or laugh or frankly want to cry. Come September when this comes out. I strongly suggest you pick a cup of copy and read it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Our thanks to the CEO and to Richard for sending us that little clip. And you can see all our interviews on our website there, Isa's Book
Club, all the clips as well as all our previous interviews.
And that does it for us for tonight. Thank you very much for your company. Do stay right here. Newsroom with my colleague Erica Hill is up next. I'll
see you tomorrow. Bye-bye.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
