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Isa Soares Tonight
U.S.-China Trade War Escalates Again; EU Warns Remaining 10 Percent Universal Tariff Will Be A Blow To The Global Economy; U.S. Special Envoy To The Middle East Witkoff Meets President Putin; Source: Ceasefire Talks Seemingly Politicized By Israeli Team; New Hearing On Columbia Graduate's Continued Detention; Trump Admin Won't Tell Judge Where Kilmar Abrego Garcia Is. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired April 11, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, not backing down. A trade war between
the world's two largest economies escalates again. Beijing says it's not afraid. And now some U.S. investors are worried Donald Trump isn't acting
rationally.
Then some European leaders are preparing to negotiate with the U.S. President, but the EU warned the remaining 10 percent universal tariff will
be a blow to the global economy. I will get reaction from the Irish Finance Minister a bit later this hour. Then, a major face-to-face meeting in
Russia. U.S. special envoy Steve Witkoff sits down with Vladimir Putin.
We'll bring you the very latest. But first, who will blink first? The world's two biggest economic powers are rushing to escalate this trade war.
Chinese leader Xi Jinping says his nation is not afraid. While the Trump administration claims world leaders are lining up to make deals as we heard
from the U.S. Press Secretary.
I want to check in on the stock markets this hour, which as we have seen, as we've shown you every single day, have been incredibly volatile. Green
arrows across the board as we end the trading week. Dow Industrials up just 1.5 percent, a slightly better picture for the Nasdaq, up almost 1 percent,
almost 2 percent, and the S&P 502.
But what an incredibly hard and volatile wheel -- week it has been for the stock markets, from the bond markets, which we'll get to that with our Anna
Stewart in just a moment. But just to recap what has happened just in the past 20 -- less than 24 hours in fact, China has now raised its retaliatory
tariffs on U.S. imports from 84 percent to 125 percent.
Beyond Wall Street, President Donald Trump's trade war could blow a sizable hole in Americans' wallets. And this is according to new research published
by the budget lab at Yale. The latest tariffs will cost a typical middle class household about 34,000 -- $3,700 a year. Is it 34 or 37? We'll get a
clarification. Do we know which one?
Let me -- let me know in my year. But it is -- it is staggering to think this will cost them a year. Jeff Zeleny is tracking this trade war from the
White House. Anna Stewart joins me here in London. And Jeff, let me go to you first, because this is escalating rather quickly. Xi Jinping now saying
China is not afraid as it's raising, as we just said, its tariffs.
What has been the reaction from this administration? I know the White House Press Secretary just had her briefing, did she address this?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Not with much clarity, I can say. I mean, the bottom line here at the White House after
really a tumultuous week with the President leading the sweeping tariff policy and then pulling it back in dramatic fashion. The White House says
trust in Trump. They said that his policies in the long run, will make the economy hum again. We shall see about that.
But as for China, specifically, we are learning that U.S. officials have been urging a back channel communications, and we're urging against a
retaliation. Well, China's posture was quite clear, retaliating once again. So, now there is a -- not only a tit-for-tat, that is clear, but also a
really open question of who will blink first?
And it clearly is not a sign -- the White House has said that the President -- the U.S. President has no immediate plans to reach out and call
President Xi Jinping. They want China to do the outreach. There's also no guarantee that the U.S. believes that many of its allies, if it's a South
Korea, if it's Japan, will make deals with the U.S. and then present a united front against China.
There is zero guarantee or evidence that, that would be the case. So, right now, it seems that there's a sense of a delusion hanging over this White
House in terms of how this broader trade war is shaping up.
SOARES: Yes, delusion is the appropriate word for what we are seeing. Jeff, do stay with us, let me bring in Anna. Anna, just to update our viewers on
that number we had is 3,700 -- thousand a year. That will cost middle class households in the United States, it was up from 3,400 just in the last few
days.
[14:05:00]
But look, as Jeff was saying, this delusion that we're seeing from the White House, the markets clearly not convinced from stock markets --
slightly better today. But you know, the volatility we've seen this week, bonds as well, the yields. Talk to us about what the market has been doing
today, but also put into context for the wider weekly picture. What a roller-coaster it's been.
ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's been a wild week. It's been one of the most volatile weeks for Wall Street on record. We've seen huge swings,
the Dow on Monday, I think it was more than 2,000 points. We may end the week with Wall Street actually higher than it started, we'll have to wait
until the market close to see.
But some assets I want to have a look at. So, the U.S. dollar is considerably weaker. In fact, earlier today, it hit a three-year low
against the euro, and also, another metric that's really worth watching right now is bond yields. Now --
SOARES: Tell us why because we heard President Trump move because of this, right? Supposedly --
STEWART: This is --
SOARES: Because of this --
STEWART: Yes, he said that people were getting a little bit yippy, and he was a little worried looking at the bond markets. And this was on Wednesday
and bond markets were a worry. Now why? Because this is an asset that is usually a safe haven. You can only bet on the U.S. government, particularly
over a ten-year horizon.
If you're looking at the sort of longer-dated bonds. Now, what we saw was a sharp selloff on Wednesday, and it continued through the week. Today, it
actually hit a new high in terms of the yield, which moves inversely to the price of the bond rather confusingly. So, we saw that hitting a record
we've not seen since mid-February.
Now, what this means is that despite all the turnarounds, despite some of the -- some of the rallies we've seen over the week with Wall Street, there
is concern here, not just about the potential for a recession, but also a concern about the credibility of the U.S., and all of this, the reason
bonds matter so much is it feeds into how much it costs to borrow, not only for people with mortgages and business loans, but also for the U.S.
government.
So, if you have all these tariffs bringing in all this revenue, but you're having to spend a lot more on borrowing, it can frankly wipe that out.
SOARES: And what we know investors want is stability. And with a lack of stability and the lack of credibility, that puts all that into question.
We're looking there, your bonds, your U.S. treasury bonds, I know you were talking about and how they've been faring? I know this is the picture that
we have been told that we need to keep an eye on. Stock markets are important, but bond yields are critical at this stage.
STEWART: And it's important to remember that as you're seeing them in the green because yields are up, that actually means the bond prices are down,
and it means you're seeing a sell off. And that ten-year yield on Friday last week was beneath 4 percent. It was at 4.5 percent, and actually
breached that barrier earlier today.
So, that is a big concern, and that is something President Trump will be watching. But I have to say, the response this week to that --
SOARES: Yes --
STEWART: Was to do a turnaround on tariffs. It hasn't worked.
SOARES: Yes --
STEWART: What now?
SOARES: Let me go -- Jeff, I don't know if you are hearing our discussion that we're having with Anna, and the discussion at this side of the pond is
the question of long-term credibility for the United States. We heard President Trump, I think said yesterday -- or pardon me, on Wednesday that
it was the bond market that, you know, that he found. What was the word, Anna, the --
STEWART: Yippee --
SOARES: Yippee was the word he used.
ZELENY: Right --
SOARES: I mean, how is that being -- how are you sensing the mood there in the White House? Are they keeping a close eye on the stock markets and not
being rattled by these moves as very dramatic moves?
ZELENY: There's no doubt that the President is keeping a close eye on the stock market, the bond market, and we actually asked the President on
Wednesday what led to his dramatic reversal. And he said, yippee! Things are -- people were getting a little bit yippee. But then we also asked
about the credibility. What has this done to your credibility, the word of the United States administration and the government?
And he calls it flexibility. He said, you have to be flexible in these negotiations. But what that has led to is uncertainty, dramatic uncertainty
about what he may do next. And there is certainly a deepening worry about the bond market. It is one of the big reasons that the Treasury Secretary
Scott Bessent sort of persuaded or prevailed, we shall say, in his argument on the President to pull back on Wednesday from that sweeping tariff plan.
But now, there is a full-on trade war underway. So, it is unclear what is the next shoe to fall in that. Never mind that this hasn't even actually
been felt by consumers in terms of higher prices, closed markets, in terms of soybeans. What will America's soybean farmers do when China has said
they are closing off the market? So many more shoes to drop in the weeks ahead, starting next week.
SOARES: Indeed. Meantime, the U.S. White House Press Secretary saying phones are ringing off the hook, I'm not sure whether stock markets or bond
markets will be convinced by that. Jeff, great to see you, Anna Stewart, appreciate it. Thank you both. Well, as a trade war between the world's two
largest economies escalates, dozens of other nations now have less than 90 days to either make a trade deal with the United States or return to
punishing trade tariffs.
[14:10:00]
A representative from the EU will travel to Washington on Sunday in an attempt to negotiate an agreement. The bloc is already warning that even
the remaining 10 percent of the universal tariff is a blow to the global economy. Ireland, meanwhile, is a member of the EU and is the European base
for many global tech as well as pharmaceutical companies.
And it could be hit particularly hard if Trump reinstates his 20 percent tariffs against the EU or follows through in fact on his threats to slap
tariffs on imported pharmaceuticals. Paschal Donohoe is Minister for Finance of Ireland, he joins me now from Warsaw where EU Finance Ministers
have been meeting today.
Finance Minister, welcome to the show. Let me get first your reaction to, you know, give us a sense of what came out of this meeting from EU leaders.
I know you've been sharing that meeting of Finance Ministers. What has come out of that? Where are we on the negotiations with the U.S.?
PASCHAL DONOHOE, FINANCE MINISTER, IRELAND: So, the tone that came out of our meeting here in Warsaw is of a commitment to engage with the United
States of America, to bring certainty to global trade, to use the approach you used earlier on in the program by trying to identify a negotiated
outcome to avoid a past lower growth to fewer jobs and higher prices, and a determination from all member states of the European Union that we approach
this negotiation in a unified way.
And engage in a way that is -- reflects the scale of the economy of the European Union. So, we want to engage constructively with the U.S., and we
look forward to doing so.
SOARES: And I understand the European Union's trade commissioner is going to travel to the United States on Sunday in a bid, of course, to reach this
negotiation, this deal. Can you give us more insight Finance Minister, on what Europe is presenting, proposing here to President Trump?
DONOHOE: Well, we're willing to engage with President Trump to identify an alternative trade arrangement to where we are at the moment. That would
cover off many parts of our economy and aim to find ways in which we can lower barriers to trade between the EU and the U.S. This is a relationship
that is worth many billions of euros per day.
And we have in Commissioner Sefcovic, who is our Commissioner for Trade, somebody who has the full confidence and support of the EU in these
negotiations. In terms of the detail of it, to go back to your question, what I'm reluctant to do is, given the uncertainty that we're all
confronting, and the desire to maximize certainty is prejudge those discussions or indeed get in the way.
SOARES: Yes --
DONOHOE: And we want to develop a positive relationship at this complex time and see, can we find a way of avoiding, adding to global trade tension
and creating a mutually-beneficial relationship for the EU and U.S.? I believe it already is mutually --
SOARES: Yes --
DONOHOE: Beneficial, but clearly, we need to find ways of making it even more so.
SOARES: I wonder how far, Finance Minister, Europe is prepared to go, because the U.S. trade adviser Peter Navarro, has said that the tariff's
reductions and the discussions around it, quote, I'm going to quote him here, "are a good small start", he said. But then, he said that the EU
needs to lower non-tariff barriers, and he was talking about food safety regulations, VAT. Is Europe prepared to go there?
DONOHOE: Well, again, I made the point about the dangers of engaging with negotiation in a public way, given the sensitivity of these issues and the
future of global trade. But it is fair to say --
SOARES: Yes --
DONOHOE: That the issues that you've just raised with me are ones that are very important and sensitive for the European Union. If you look at the
issue of VAT, VAT is a really important tax within the European Union that collects very important tax revenue for European governments, and
critically, treats all goods the same.
SOARES: Yes --
DONOHOE: So, I don't accept that VAT in some way differentiates between products that are created within the European Union and products that are
brought into the European Union, because they tax both of them in the same way. So, these are the kind of issues that are very important to us here in
the European Union.
And from a food safety point of view, we treat really seriously safety of the food, the quality of our agriculture here within the European Union,
and the need to ensure that consumers here in the European Union are buying products and food that they're fully confident in.
[14:15:00]
So, again, a very sensitive and important area for us here in the European Union. And that will be reflected in the mandate that the commission is
developing on our behalf.
SOARES: I hear you and understand fully. Let's talk then, Finance Minister, if talks don't go according to plan, because I'm sure you saw the interview
in the "Financial Times" today with the President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, who said that the EU could tax tech
giants, I'm going to quote what she says. "We are developing retaliatory measures, which potentially includes taxing the digital advertising
revenues of companies like Meta, Google and Facebook.
There's a wide range of countermeasures in case negotiations are not satisfactory." Where does this, Finance Minister, leave Ireland, which
relies heavily on U.S. investment particularly -- and I'll talk about you know -- we'll talk about the health sector in just a moment, but relies
heavily in the tech -- in the tech aspect -- tech sector here.
DONOHOE: So, we absolutely support the work the commission is doing and will do on our behalf. And the key words that President von der Leyen
outlined in her interview and elsewhere is, these are countermeasures. It's why we should do all we can to avoid these countermeasures be needed. And
the commission has also talked about the need for us to respond back in a graduated, a proportionate and in a careful way.
That does mean we have to leave all measures on the table. They have to be available to use if our negotiations turn out not to be successful. We want
the negotiations to be successful, but accept that in scenarios in which things get even harder, difficult measures will have to be considered. We
hope it doesn't come to that. But the President is right that all these matters have to be considered, and different options have to be on the
table.
SOARES: Do you think you can get a deal in 19 days?
DONOHOE: Well, we'll certainly spare no effort to reach an --
SOARES: Yes --
DONOHOE: Agreement, and we'll work very hard to try to do this. But it's not the European Union, is not the cause of this trade difficulty or the
cause of the global uncertainty that we are now facing. And for us, while we know the 90-day framework has been introduced, we have interests in this
as well. We have an agreement that we have to get that -- we hope we can get -- that can work for the European Union too.
We want to be constructive. We really value the relationship with the U.S., we really regret that we've got to this point. They have deep issues with
the tariffs as they stand at the moment, but want to use the window of opportunity that is available to us to see if we can find an agreement that
works for both sides of the Atlantic, and that's what we are committed to doing.
SOARES: Can I just focus in particular on Ireland, because President Trump suggested, I think it was this week, there will be specific tariffs on
pharmaceuticals. As you said, the U.S. doesn't make anything in terms of drugs or medicine. And I was looking at trade figures between the U.S. and
Ireland in 2024, and of the 73 billion euros of goods exported in 2024, 44 billion of those euros came from pharmaceuticals. What would be the impact,
Finance Minister, on these tariffs, on Ireland's economy, on Ireland's businesses here?
DONOHOE: So, firstly, it's important to make the case why we have a big life science and medicine sector in Ireland. And many of the companies that
you refer to have been present in Ireland now for many decades, and have many thousands, and indeed tens of thousands in our economy overall of
highly-skilled workers creating these medicines, creating these medical devices.
They do that in a way that is beneficial for those who use these medicines, and it's ultimately beneficial for the companies who sell them in America
and elsewhere. We'll be making the case for the role of mutually-beneficial trade when it comes in particular to life science and medicine. In terms of
the effect that it could have on our economy, the government of Ireland has published different scenarios where we have said that over the medium term,
the impact of an escalating trade difficulty could be between 2 to 4 percentage points of GDP growth over the medium term --
SOARES: And significance --
DONOHOE: And would result in between -- indeed, and would result between 50 and 80,000 jobs that would otherwise be created not being created. But our
same scenario analysis points to our economy continuing to have a high level of employment and continuing to grow, albeit at a lower rate.
So, yes, it is indeed significant, but the way we would approach this is through our membership of the European Union. It's complementing the work
that our trade commissioner will do. He has a mandate from us to negotiate on our behalf, and we'll do so excellently, because by approaching this
collectively through our membership of the European Union, it gives us the best prospect of reaching a fair trade deal --
SOARES: Yes --
[14:20:00]
DONOHOE: With the U.S. on these issues. And it also reflects the political unity that we have here on the EU, in the EU, on this really complex and
important economic challenge.
SOARES: Finance Minister, really appreciate you taking the time this --
DONOHOE: Thank you very much --
SOARES: Friday afternoon -- thank you very much for your time, sir. Thank you.
DONOHOE: Thank you, bye-bye.
SOARES: Want to leave the European Union focus on China for just a moment, because as we said at the top of the hour in the last 90 minutes or so,
China has been striking a defiant tone, calling the U.S. tariff hikes, quote, "a joke", while ratcheting up its own tariffs against U.S. goods to
125 percent.
And if this continues, the risks for both sides, as you can imagine, are huge. Neither leader, though, is showing any signs of backing down.
Instead, they seem to be staking their political reputations on not being the first one to blink. Wen-Ti Sung is a Nonresident Fellow at the Atlantic
Council's Global China Hub and joins me now.
Wen-Ti, welcome to the show. Look, this tit-for-tat between the world's two biggest economies doesn't seem like it's going to end any time soon. And
the question is, who blinks first? What is your sense, first of all, as to how Xi Jinping and the community -- communist party are seeing this
challenge right now from President Trump?
WEN-TI SUNG, NONRESIDENT FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL'S GLOBAL CHINA HUB: Yes, this is certainly a challenging game of chicken that the U.S. and China
seem to be locked in at the moment. And I think China is trying to find a way to get out of a game of chicken gracefully without losing face, first
and foremost.
And to do that, I think you are seeing over the last few hours China's reaction. First of all, China raises tariffs against U.S. imports up to 125
percent, more or less matching Trump's level against China. What that's doing, number one, is to show to China's own domestic audience that there's
firmness and toughness in China's response, even in the front of China's -- in front of Trumps threat.
Because China needs to reassure domestic audience that the world is still bipolar, that there's polarity, polarity -- parity between the two sides,
and that the east is rising and the west is falling. And so, in that sense, China cannot be seen to be conceding. And I think in doing so, China is
also trying to also say that even though China is tough, China will not however, after this point match any more increase in Trump's tariffs --
against China after this point.
What that is doing is that China is trying to tell other countries that China is trying to be the adult in the room here, that there will be a
limit to how far China is escalating, and therefore, when other countries think about whether China or U.S. to do more business with in the future,
maybe China will be seen as a less executor(ph) of the two superpowers.
SOARES: And you're talking a lot there in detail on the political aspect, and I want to go more into that in just a moment, because not only have we
heard from Xi Jinping, we've also heard from the Chinese Ministry, and we'll play that in just a moment. But let me just get first your -- Wen-Ti,
your reaction to on the economic aspect of this, because facing -- China now facing 145 percent, right level on some of its goods imported to
America.
How damaging is this to China if it drags on, if those tariffs are increased? Can it endure the pain? What are you hearing from economists in
the country?
SUNG: Certainly, quite a lot of pessimism from the Chinese discussion at the moment. I mean, we know that China has been struggling economically --
SOARES: Yes --
SUNG: Over the last couple of years for sure. And you are seeing just a couple of months ago, you see Chinese leadership after cracking down
against China's own domestic private businesses over the last couple of years. You see Xi Jinping convening a major central level work conference
with private entrepreneurs inside China again to send a signal to them that, hey, China is open for business again, please come back and invest.
You guys are back in the good graces of the party again, because the party needs you guys to help out. So, definitely, economic challenges a lot for
China. I think at the moment, they're hoping that they can get private capital back. They can get some other third party capital back, which is
why two days ago, you see China again convening this central level work conference to consolidate neighborhood called the periphery work conference
at the moment.
Trying to build this regional capital, hopefully to find a way to tough it out for the next couple of years, maybe after U.S. Midterms. They are
hoping that perhaps things will change, perhaps U.S. Congress may change hands, and there may be some way to put a break on this tariff war.
SOARES: On the political front, not only did we hear from Xi Jinping in his first comments saying he's not afraid, but the spokesperson for the Chinese
Ministry also spoke today. Let me just play you that little clip and we can talk after that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIN JIAN, SPOKESPERSON, CHINESE FOREIGN MINISTRY (through translator): China has repeatedly stated its solemn position on tariffs. There are no
winners in a tariff and trade war. China is unwilling but unafraid to engage in it. I want to stress that if the United States truly wants to
resolve the issue through dialogue and negotiation, it should cease extreme pressure and reckless actions.
[14:25:00]
Any dialogue must be based on equality, respect, mutual benefit. If the U.S. is determined to fight a tariff and trade war, China will fight until
the end.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: China will fight to the end. Now Xi Jinping, of course, has a reputation for refusing to yield. I heard this, though, today from a
political scientist, and I wonder whether you agree, who said "this will actually save Xi Jinping from having to take responsibility for the lack of
economic growth in China.
It is a get-out of jail free card for him. Chinese citizens and business leaders will view this as an outside of this control. Do you agree with
that? Do you think if this goes on, drags on, do that -- how this communist party will spin this?
SUNG: Most likely, yes. I mean, it's when things are challenging, the easiest thing to do is to blame it on foreigners. And at the moment,
certainly, the foreigner in question here are President Trump and the U.S. government at the moment, have not been made difficult for China to be
blaming China's macroeconomic challenges on a broader macro environment internationally.
So, certainly, I think that's something they're going to do. And again, I think for even President Xi Jinping, however, even if China wants to show
some kind of grace at this juncture, trying to find a way to keep an off- ramp to tone, turn down the temperature, if you will, on the trade war and let Trump have this round, China still needs some kind of assurance,
credible assurance from the U.S. administration that if China were to let Trump have this round, that will not only wet Trump's appetite even more,
that will not invite further more coercion from the U.S. side.
At the moment, with leaders from both sides not talking, it's harder to see that level of assurance coming into the picture.
SOARES: Yes, let's see who blinks first at this point. Wen-Ti Sung, really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us and for staying up for us
live there from Taipei in Taiwan. Thank you. And still to come tonight, a top White House envoy is in Russia talking with Vladimir Putin about the
Ukraine war. We're watching for any developments. That's after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:24]
SOARES: A major face-to-face meeting is underway in Russia right now. One of President Donald Trump's top envoys, Steve Witkoff is talking with
Russian President Vladimir Putin. And here you see them there shaking hands. They're expected to talk about the war in Ukraine. A potential
Putin-Trump meeting could also be up for discussion.
Our Fred Pleitgen is tracking all of this for us. So, Fred, just talk us through what has come out if anything so far out of today's meeting. And
just a reminder for people -- for viewers, it's almost a month, I think it was a month ago that Ukraine signed up to the ceasefire agreement, yet
silence from Russia's part. Where are we here?
[14:30:24]
FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, you're absolutely right that not much has come out of that since the
Russians and the Ukrainians -- or the Ukrainians signed on to a ceasefire and the Russians said they were thinking about it but they wanted
guarantees first.
Now, the only thing that we can tell you about this meeting because it is behind closed doors, is that's been going on for a very long time. Steve
Witkoff and Vladimir Putin have now been talking I would say about three and a half hours.
One of the interesting things about this meeting unlike the two previous meetings that they've had which happened in complete secrecy where we
really only found out that Steve Witkoff was in Moscow as he was already about to leave is that the Russians really are making a big media deal out
of this as well.
Dmitry Peskov, the Kremlin spokesman, he is there on the ground. Several Russian media are there on the ground. Russian media were in the room as
Vladimir Putin and Steve Witkoff greeted each other and then went to go to their negotiations.
Now, there's several things that are in play in all of this. The U.S. obviously still wants a ceasefire for Ukraine as fast as possible. If you
recall that a month ago what President Trump said is that he wants the weapons to be silenced, he wants a ceasefire to take effect, and for then
the two sides Ukraine and Russia to deal with all of the underlying issues of the Ukraine conflict.
The Russians of course are saying that they want to solve those issues first and then there can be a ceasefire. At the same time though the
Russians are trying to move full steam ahead when it comes to the normalization of relations between Russia and the United States where they
have gotten some positive signals from the U.S.
But one of the things that we've been seeing sort of throughout the course of the day is that it does seem as though President Trump's patience
appears to be wearing somewhat thin. He might be growing frustrated with the slow pace of the process and the seeming lack of much movement in that
process. He posted on his social media account "Russia needs to get moving. Too many people are dying. Dying in capital letters. Thousands each week."
So, clearly President Trump is somewhat frustrated. You did have that prisoner exchange. Of course, that happened yesterday between Russia and
the United States where both sides are saying those are trust-building measures, those are goodwill measures. But at the same time, right now I
think it's becoming more and more difficult to gloss over the fact -- the fact that on the battlefield the fighting is still extremely brutal. The
most minimal consensus that has been reached so far has been for both sides to not attack certain energy infrastructure. Even a deal to stop fighting
in the Black Sea and in short agriculture exports through the Black Sea so far is not in effect.
So, it seems as though the Trump Administration growing somewhat frustrated and that seems to be sort of the air in which Steve Witkoff is now on the
ground there in St. Petersburg. But again that meeting taking on or has been going on for a very long time. It's unclear when it's going to end.
The only thing that we've heard from the Kremlin so far is that they might discuss a future meeting between President Trump and Russian President
Vladimir Putin and that there could also be a call between Trump and Putin later today. However, that's one thing that the Kremlin testers have just
been dangling saying it may happen or it may not happen, Isa.
SOARES: And I know you'll be across it. May it happen or may not happen, you're crossing all these angles for us. Fred, I appreciate it. Good to see
you.
Now, the United Nations says the very existence of the Palestinian people in Gaza is under threat as Israel escalates attacks and orders more mass
evacuations. Dozens of people have been killed in air strikes in Gaza City this week alone. A U.N. report says hundreds of residential buildings as
well as tents have been hit since mid-March. And it says in 36 of those strikes, the only fatalities were women and children.
Israel is ordering new evacuations to parts of Gaza City saying it's destroying terrorist infrastructure there. One woman says her family
doesn't know where they will go, only wherever our feet takes us, is what she said. The U.N. is accusing Israel of forcibly transferring Palestinians
into ever-shrinking spaces.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Ravina Shamdasani, SPOKESPERSON, U.N. HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR HUMAN RIGHTS: The cumulative effect of what is happening in Gaza today, the death, the
destruction, the displacement, the denial of access to basic necessities within Gaza and the repeated suggestion that Gazans should leave the
territory entirely raise real concerns as to the future viability of Palestinians as a group in Gaza.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Meantime, discussions are underway to resurrect the broken ceasefire and hostage deal. But a source tells CNN Israel made an important
change to his negotiating team that has significantly slowed progress. Our Alex Marquardt is following that story and joins us from Washington.
It's just slowed progress but it seems to, according to reporting, Alex, frustrated mediators. What more can you tell us?
[14:35:04]
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's been little progress, Isa, since this ceasefire broke down in mid-March.
People involved in the conversation say that there are signs of hope but nothing appears imminent. It is clear that Hamas is reluctant to give up
the biggest leverage that they have, the hostages, without some kind of promise to end the war which Israel is so far refusing to do.
And there's another element that has made these talks more complicated, more frustrating for many of the parties, and slower we're told. A number
of sources telling my colleague, Jeremy Diamond, and myself that there's been a shift on the Israeli side of things in that their team had been led
for most of the past year and a half by intelligence professionals from the Mossad and Shin Bet security services.
Now, it is Netanyahu's top political aid Ron Dermer who back in February took over the lead on the Israeli team, and that has slowed things down.
According to one person I spoke with who was directly involved in the talks, Dermer's involvement has made a significant difference this person
said in the momentum, that the priorities have shifted from getting the hostages out, getting to a ceasefire, to taking on more of a political
dimension. I also spoke with an American source who advocates on behalf of several of the hostage families who said that Dermer is a big problem to
getting their loved ones home.
There are competing forces if you will on the Israeli side of things whether to prioritize getting the hostages home or prioritize the defeat of
Hamas. And there have been accusations by critics of Prime Minister Netanyahu including many of the hostages and hostage families themselves
who say that that Netanyahu has prioritized continuing the war against Hamas. And there is -- there is a major political dimension to that because
there are members, far-right members of the governing coalition in Israel who have pulled out or threatened to pull out if Israel ends this war
against Hamas. So, there is a growing frustration with the lack of speed, the lack of momentum, and this political nature from the Israeli side amid
the mediators.
For the Americans part, they are trying to get out the remaining American hostages. There is one who is alive, Edan Alexander, and there are four who
are deceased. Now, where things stand right now, Isa, we understand that Hamas has offered to start getting a new truce back into place by releasing
five living hostages. The Israelis have countered saying they want 11 or more and they have the backing of the U.S.
So, right now the U.S. and the other mediators, Qatar and Egypt, are trying to bridge that gap to try to get this ceasefire back in place. Isa?
SOARES: Important reporting there from our Alex Marquardt. Alex, I appreciate it. Thank you.
And from the war in Gaza, to the protests that have surrounded it. A judge could make a key ruling at a hearing for the Palestinian activist who's
facing deportation from the U.S. We'll have the latest on Mahmoud Khalil's case after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:41:39]
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. This hour, hearing is taking place to decide whether or not a Columbia University graduate and Palestinian
activist can continue to be detained by the U.S. government. The Trump Administration has been laying out its evidence against Mahmud Khalil who
is a legal permanent resident. A two-page memo from U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio says he can be deported based on his "believed statements or
associations, saying, they would compromise U.S. foreign policy interests."
The memo contains no allegations of criminal activity. Khalil's attorney says the right to protest is protected by the U.S. Constitution.
Well, a U.S. federal judge is showing clear frustration with the Trump Administration after it failed to comply with a court order over a man
wrongly deported to El Salvador. At a hearing in Maryland, the judge said it's extremely troubling that the government won't identify Kilmar Abrego
Garcia's whereabouts. The Supreme Court yesterday upheld the judge's order that the administration explain how it is facilitating his return. But the
government failed to meet a deadline to provide that information. It said "foreign affairs cannot operate on judicial timelines."
I want to bring in Priscilla Alvarez from Washington who was following this story. And it's been, Priscilla, I understand tense and confrontational
moments as well inside this courtroom. Talk us through just the very latest here.
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the hearing ended moments ago and it was tense just as it was tense a week ago. Again, this is a federal
judge who has been seeking additional information on the deportation of the Salvadoran national to El Salvador, particularly after the administration
conceded that they made "an administrative error in removing him to his native country," a country where an immigration judge found in 2019 that he
may fear persecution.
So, this has been ongoing dizzying few days as it has bounced around in the courts going all the way up to the Supreme Court which last night said that
the administration has to facilitate his return, though they did not require his return. They also said that there needs to be due difference to
foreign affairs which gives the administration some wiggle room in how they go about this.
Now, what happened today was a follow to what the Supreme Court decision was because the Supreme Court decision also sent it back to the lower
court. And what the federal judge was looking for here was more information, any information about this Salvadoran national, Kilmar Abrego
Garcia. And what happened was that she didn't get what she was looking for.
In questioning with the Justice Department, the Justice Department attorney could not answer where he was or any information about him. Now, it's
understood that he is in El Salvador, but there was very little information that the Justice Department was willing to give in this setting. So, how it
ended was with the federal judge saying that she expects there to be status updates, daily reports about how the administration is facilitating the
return of this man.
Now, the Justice Department was opposed to that but that is what the order is expected to state and what the expectation would be moving forward. Now,
this has been moving at a snail's pace according to the attorneys of Kilmar Abrego Garcia who say that his life is at risk and that there needs to be
urgency for the administration to bring him back.
But look, his fate is still very much up in the air. It's unclear up in the air. It's unclear whether he does return or not because again the Supreme
Court was saying that there's a facilitating that needs to happen but not necessarily his full return. So, again, we're still in wait and see. But
certainly, the judge making very clear today that she wants more updates, more regular updates from the government about what they're doing.
[14:45:30]
SOARES: And on that point, Priscilla, I mean, the status reports that they can't even -- they didn't even be able to identify where he is. What are
they looking from the status reports? How often are they going to get these status reports here?
ALVAREZ: Well, they -- she wants -- she the federal judge, wants daily reports and basic answers to basic questions. Where is he? Has there been
any attempt by the government to reach the Salvadoran government about this case? I mean, really basic questions were asked during the hearing and what
is expected in the status updates.
SOARES: Yes, very basic, very simple which they haven't been able to answer. Priscilla, I know you'll stay across it for us. Thank you.
Now, an investigation is underway after a family of five and a pilot were killed in a helicopter crash in New York's Hudson River on Thursday.
Authorities are working to determine how the sightseeing chopper went down just 16 minutes after takeoff.
A Spanish executive with the German company Siemens was with his wife and their three children. Officials say the husband was in town for a business
trip and his family came to join him in New York to celebrate his wife's 40th birthday. The cause of the crash is still unclear.
We're going to take a short break. We'll be seeing you on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: This week we've been spotlighting pioneers of business, sport, and technology as part of a CNN series "VISIONARIES." CNN's Amanda Davies sat
down with U.S. Women's National Football Team Coach Emma Hayes for a look at the way Emma's father influenced the biggest choice of her -- of her
career. Have a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANDA DAVIES, CNN SPORTS COMMENTATOR (voice-over): Emma Hayes had an American dream of her own. Inspired by her father, she wanted the top job
at a program synonymous with worldwide football success, the U.S. Women's National Team. But first, she needed to make a name for herself.
DAVIES: You are somebody who is very openly emotional. You talk about your loyalty very openly, but they are two things that aren't necessarily
married to sport. They can be counterproductive. How have you balanced those emotions and being as successful as you have?
[14:50:15]
EMMA HAYES, HEAD COACH, U.S. WOMEN'S NATIONAL FOOTBALL TEAM: Well, I think first of all, work every day like you're going to get fired. And that
sounds mental, doesn't it? Like having been fired, what you learn is you have to stay so present in everything you're doing to make sure you do it
at the best possible level.
DAVIES: But that's not fear.
HAYES: No, it's not fear. It's acceptance that the of the reality of the profession. And I accept all of those things. But I also think without
being fired, I don't think I'd be the coach that I am. I think that that shapes you. And I think you should be fired. I think it's good for the soul
because it develops that little bit of resilience that's required. And it's a job. Much as I love it, it's a job. And most important thing is my health
and family.
DAVIES (voice-over): Emma spent time coaching in America before returning to England and becoming the manager of Chelsea's Women's Team in 2012. She
won an unprecedented 15 trophies in 12 years with the club, including five straight league titles. Amidst all of that, she gave birth to her son,
Harry. But at the height of her professional career, when her dream job came calling, the man who had meant everything to her, her father, died of
lung cancer.
DAVIES: It was just after your dad passed away that you got the U.S. Women's job.
HAYES: Yes.
DAVIES: How much did you think about him in the decision-making process?
HAYES: I think the hardest thing was family were grieving, so the last thing I wanted to do was abandon anyone. I didn't want to abandon mom. My
sisters needed me. We all needed each other. And all I kept thinking was I can't do this. This is selfish. And then I kept hearing my dad in the
background going, "This is what you worked your whole life for. This is the one you want."
And I could feel the whole time and I remember driving to Chelsea one day on the M25 and I just had a moment. He just came into my head and he said
"You got to go to that interview. You got to get that job." And I remember ringing my agent and saying I've got -- I've got to go. Dad wants me to do
it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And you can see more from Amanda's interview with Emma Hayes on "VISIONARIES" premiering this weekend. We're going to take a short break.
We're back on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:23]
SOARES: One of the biggest shows in television is back this weekend. The Last of Us returns for its season 2 premiere on HBO Max on Sunday, and it's
set five years in the future. We talked with the program's co-creator Craig Mazin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRAIG MAZIN, WRITER AND DIRECTOR: We have always as humans turned to drama to help us process some of these feelings in a way that is safe. We can
experience grief and loss. We can experience love and romance and identity and what it means to be threatened in a way that doesn't immediately put us
at risk but lets us feel the feelings.
And I think that's in part why The Last of Us is successful because it has some universal themes that are relevant to everybody and have always been.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And you can watch more of his interview next hour here on CNN with my colleague Erica Hill. HBO Max and CNN are divisions of parent company
Warner Brothers Discovery.
And stay tuned for a new opening to a popular U.S. TV series as it debuts overseas live from London. It's Saturday Night. The sketch comedy show
which celebrated 50 years of broadcasting this year is set to air next year on the Sky Networks. SNL creator Lorne Michaels' program will follow a
similar format to the American version Sky Studio's set. So, you can probably expect U.K. popular culture and politicians of course to be
skewered and maybe the return of the SNL skit called British Caveman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: See them now, the warriors, the upper class, the working class, even little cave children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: That does it for us for tonight ending on a lighter note. Thank you very much for your company. Do stay right here. My colleague Erica Hill is
up next. Have a wonderful weekend. I'll see you next week.
END
