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Isa Soares Tonight
To Resolve Global Issues, Meloni Advocates Collaboration with U.S.; Trump to Engage in Tariff Negotiations with Meloni; Shooting at Florida State University Resulted in at Least Six Injuries; Trump Slams Jerome Powell. Trump Hosts Italian Prime Minister at the White House. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired April 17, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Job, and now eggs are all over the place, and the price went down 92 percent, and our Commissioner of
Agriculture, Brooke, has done a fantastic job. They've really done a fantastic job. So, prices haven't gone up. The only thing that's gone up
actually is interest rates because we have a Federal Reserve chairman that is playing politics.
Somebody that I've never been very fond of actually. But he's playing politics. Interest rates should be down now, they should be coming down. In
Europe, as you know, they've reduced them, I guess seven times. It looks like they're going to reduce them again and again and again.
But our guy wants to play cute. But interest rates are pretty much even, maybe they went up just a slight bit, but that's the only thing. But that's
because of the Federal Reserve and because they're not very smart people.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Go ahead, yes, sir, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President --
TRUMP: Go ahead, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you regret nominating him, Jerome Powell?
TRUMP: Look, in the first four years, we had the greatest economy in the history of our country. Stock market went up 88 points. I think he's
terrible, but I can't complain because we had the most successful administration economically in the history of our country. I think we're
going to do even better this time, because you will see that the numbers that we're taking in are astronomical.
We're taking in tremendous amounts of money with the tariffs. We were treated very unfairly on trade, and countries are having a hard time
getting used to the fact that they can't do that to us anymore because we have a real President. We have a President that understands what it's all
about.
We had Presidents that in some cases were smart, but they didn't understand business or they didn't like business or, you know, wasn't like a priority.
And then you had like the last administration, the only thing they were good at was cheating in elections. That's about all they could do. They
couldn't do anything.
They were useless. They were incompetent. Worst administration in the history of our country. Worse than Jimmy Carter. Jimmy Carter died a happy
man. You know why? Because he wasn't the worst President, Joe Biden was. So, I think you're going to see some fantastic numbers when this all
happens. It's happening now.
I mean, everybody wants to make a deal. And if they don't want to make a deal, we'll make the deal for them, because that's what's going to happen.
We'll just say, this is what it is. But we want to listen to everybody --
(CROSSTALK)
I think -- I think I can say for Scott and the other people that are working on it that we're listening and we're going to be very fair to
people. But you know, we're the one that really sets the deal, and that's what we'll be doing.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Go ahead, please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Question to our Prime Minister --
TRUMP: Oh, you have a great Prime Minister. You're so lucky, you guys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Italiano --
TRUMP: Yes --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK --
GIORGIA MELONI, PRIME MINISTER, ITALY: I'm not sure that would be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The technology -- it was OK, (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
MELONI: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: I want to hear what she said. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, President, Prime Minister Meloni was asked whether what she thinks about the fact that President Trump holds Zelenskyy
responsible for the war in Ukraine, and Prime Minister Meloni answered, well, actually, we were -- we have a -- and also, if -- you talked about
the military spending, how in the raising of the military spending --
TRUMP: Yes --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the first thing, President -- Prime Minister Meloni said is that, no, actually, we -- what she thinks about the fact
that President Trump holds Zelenskyy responsible for the war in Ukraine.
[14:05:00]
And Prime Minister Meloni answered, well, actually, we were -- we have -- and also, if -- you talked about the military spending, how -- and the
raising of the military spending --
TRUMP: Yes --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the -- and the first thing, President -- Prime Minister Meloni said is that, no, actually, we didn't talk about the raise
in military spending, of course, Italy will keep its commitments with 2 percent, and then we will see because we are absolutely aware of the fact
that it is very important to --
MELONI: Well, I will do that --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Defense is very important --
MELONI: Wait, I will do that. They've been asking if we agree -- if we decided another percentage about this defense spending --
TRUMP: Well, yes --
MELONI: And I said, yes, NATO. And I said that Italy is reaching 2 percent as it was already decided. We didn't speak about specific other --
TRUMP: Yes --
MELONI: Percentage, but we are aware of the fact that defense is important for the future, and we see what -- also the war that we are trying to do at
the European level.
TRUMP: And I don't hold -- I don't hold Zelenskyy responsible, but I'm not exactly thrilled with the fact that, that war started. That was a war that
would have never started if I were President, you'd have millions of people living right now that are dead. You'd have cities that would be open and
thriving, and they'd have their beautiful tourists.
Those tourists are the most beautiful in the world, but they're not with us any longer. They're smashed to smithereens, laying on the ground in a
million pieces, getting hit by rockets, bombs and bullets. And so, I'm not happy with him, and I'm not happy with anybody involved. I think it's a war
-- I know it's a war. It didn't happen for four years. It was never close to happening.
It was never even a thought. And I spoke to President Putin about it a lot. It was the apple of his eye. But there's no way he would have ever gone in
if I were president. Now, I'm trying to get him to stop because, as you know, Russia is a lot bigger. It's a bigger military force. And if you're
smart, you don't go involve and get involved in wars that -- you can blame the man that was sitting in this seat.
Biden, he didn't know what the hell was going on. But I can guarantee you that -- and everybody agrees to it. If I were President, that war would
have never taken place. I'm not blaming him, but what I am saying is that I wouldn't say he's done the greatest job, OK? I'm not a big fan, I really
am. I'm not a big fan.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE) Mr. President, are you sure about the definition of the parasite? Would you say again that
Europeans are parasites?
MELONI: He's never said --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you say again that European --
TRUMP: You approve it?
MELONI: Have you said that Europeans are parasites?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes --
MELONI: Have you said it?
TRUMP: No, I haven't said, I don't know --
MELONI: He didn't say --
TRUMP: I don't even know what you're talking about --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Go ahead, please. Go ahead. No, wait -- next. Go --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. Prime Minister Meloni just said we want to make Europe great again, and we want to do it together. Together with the -
-
TRUMP: Sure --
MELONI: West, yes --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you -- I guess that's what you said. Mr. Prime Minister, how are you going to do that? And are you looking to do it to
counter China, who is really trying to gather influence against the United States with the help of a disjointed --
TRUMP: I hope that Europe is going to be great again. Europe is going through a lot of problems, and a lot of it is having to do with
immigration. And I'm not a big fan of Europe and what they've done with immigration at all. And I think they've got to get smart because Europe is
being very badly hurt by what they've done with immigration.
Now, I'll say this, that the Prime Minister has taken a very tough stand on immigration, and I commented to her before, I said, I wish more people
would be like you having to do with that subject, but they're not. Europe is very important to me. Europe is very important to the world. I want
Europe to do very well. I think they have to get a lot smarter on immigration.
MELONI: But we are beginning to doing it. You've seen -- you will see now the quality -- the policies of the European Union in the last -- let's say,
two and a half years have been changing, OK? At the beginning, we were talking only about how we were redistributing illegal migrants coming to
Italy, now, we are talking mainly about how to stop illegal migration, work with the countries of origin and transit, and to return people.
[14:10:00]
The European Commission just did the new rules about repatriations and things like that. So, things are changing.
TRUMP: Yes, OK --
MELONI: Thanks also to the example that Italy brought in lowering the rates of illegal migration. So, they -- we are working now together. So,
I'm optimistic on that.
TRUMP: Good. I hope so.
(CROSSTALK)
Go ahead, please, go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would like to ask -- I would like to ask President Meloni if you have discussed the option of some employee -- even though you
answered the right communications, and President Trump, if you want to see the Google problem(ph) going up?
TRUMP: The Google what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Google problem(ph) --
TRUMP: What about it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Google (INAUDIBLE) --
TRUMP: Go ahead, please.
MELONI: Oh well, we didn't discuss about --
TRUMP: No --
MELONI: About Starlink. We've been discussing about defense space where we will work together also in the --
TRUMP: Sure --
MELONI: Mars missions. So, there are big things to do together. But we didn't discuss it.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Prime Minister that changed your mind potentially about tariffs and what you plan to do going forward?
TRUMP: No --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe the Prime Minister said to you that changed your perspective?
TRUMP: No, tariffs are making us rich. We were losing a lot of money under Biden. Trillions of dollars, trillions on trade. And now that whole tide
has turned, we're making a lot of money. We're taking a lot of money. Don't forget, we're taking in 25 percent on cars, 25 percent on steel, 25 percent
on aluminum, 10 percent baseline.
We put penalties on China for sending us fentanyl. We put penalties on Mexico and Canada, 25 percent for allowing fentanyl and allowing the
borders to be weak. No, we're taking in billions and billions of dollars while I sit here and talk to you. And we didn't do -- we didn't take in
anything before other than the tariffs that I put on previous to Biden, which were the tariffs I put on China, where we took in up until this
point, probably $700 billion.
They were Trump tariffs. He tried to weaken them. He did everything he could. You know, he got paid money by China, right? Family got paid money.
He did. And so, I don't know, maybe that was the reason or maybe it wasn't. But he tried to weaken them, but he couldn't because there was so much
money that his budgets, you know, they couldn't stand not doing it.
But I took in -- in the up until this point, my tariffs on China, nobody ever took in 10 cents from China. No other President took in 10 cents, I
took in more than $700 billion from China. So, we're doing very well. I mean, our country is doing very well. They had a bad report today from one
of the health care companies that had an impact on the stock market.
But this isn't about the -- this is really -- we're building a base. We're building a country like no other. And again, I had the -- I had the
strongest economy in the history of our country by far, history of any country, probably, but the history of our country in four years. And I
think this has a chance to be much better.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will that be signed here at the White House with Ukraine on Thursday? Will President Zelenskyy be coming here for that?
TRUMP: I don't know exactly. I'm going to leave that to Scott. What do you think? Where would it be signed and when?
SCOTT BESSENT, SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY, UNITED STATES: Yes, we're still working on the details. We're shooting for around April 26th.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is there any more detail that you could tell us about what's in that deal and how it came together?
BESSENT: It's substantially of what we agreed on previously when the President was here, we had a memorandum of understanding. We went straight
to the big deal. And I think it's an 80-page agreement, and that's what we'll be signing.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Trump, in the meantime, in the meantime, can you clarify -- can you clarify on rate cuts? Do you intend to seek
Powell's firing if he doesn't change his stance on rate cuts, or is that -- is that on the table or is that --
TRUMP: Well, I think he should do the rate cuts because I think if Europe has done it, I mean, it puts us at a disadvantage to Europe. I mean, he
plays right into their hands. So, I think he should do the rate cuts. We don't have really inflation now. I just said the major things are going
down. Oil is great. Oil is way ahead of schedule.
And that's because of our policies. But oil is down into the $60-$65 range now per barrel, and I told you in certain states, we have less than $2 for
gasoline. And food is down, groceries, as we call it, are down -- other than interest rates, everything is down. Interest rates are pretty flat.
They're not -- it's not that they're up, but we should be better than flat.
[14:15:00]
We should. If he would lower the interest rate, I think it would have a good impact on that too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And if --
TRUMP: But the costs are down. We have very little inflation. I would say we have essentially no inflation. It's hard to have inflation when oil goes
down and oil goes down. When Biden came in, oil went through the roof. That's what caused our problem. That and his very dumb spending. But when
the oil prices go down, and they have gone down a lot, we've gotten it down really good.
We've opened it up and we've gotten them down. And that means that people driving cars are going to be paying $2 and $2.50 instead of $4.50. And you
know, even at the end and they tried -- they tried just for the purpose of the election to get it down. But they had really lost that sucker. That was
really -- it was not good.
But if they had won oil right now, would be at $7 or $8, because of their policy. And we're going to be at about $2, could be even a little bit less
than that, and you're starting to see it. So, I don't know how you can have inflation when oil is -- has come down quite a bit. And I would say the Fed
really owes it to the American people to get interest rates down.
That's the only thing he's good for. And he would have an effect on that if he -- if he -- if he lowered them. And I think at some point, he will. He's
going to have a lot of political pressure. You know, they are political also. And I think there's a lot of political pressure for him to lower
interest rates. Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: Yes, go ahead. Please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think that Italy can be your best ally in Europe? And also, do you ever notice when you walk, if you step on hands?
TRUMP: Only if the Prime Minister remains the Prime Minister, can it be our best --
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: She's doing -- no, she's doing a great job. And -- yes, certainly one of our great allies, not just in Europe, anywhere. She's a fantastic
person and doing a great job, and our relationship is great -- and we have a lot of Italians in this country --
MELONI: I know --
TRUMP: I'll tell you, and they like Trump and they voted for Trump. Thank you very much, everybody.
(CROSSTALK)
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: You have been listening there to President Trump hosting Italians, Italy's Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni
here, pretty amicable meeting there as you saw -- call saying they're one of our great allies, saying she is a fantastic person. We'll get to some of
those top lines, there were many on Ukraine, on Iran in particular, attacks also on Jerome Powell, the Fed chair.
But I want to leave that for just a moment and turn our attention to a breaking news that the President says, you heard there has been briefed on,
and we are getting breaking news out of Florida. I just want to bring you our attention to, at least, we've been told six people have been injured in
a mass shooting on the campus of Florida State University.
One of those is said to be in critical condition. Now, students are being told to shelter in place while police respond. And we've been told the
suspect has been arrested in connection to the shooting. This is what we're getting in to us at this very moment. At least, six people injured in what
we've been told is a mass shooting at the -- on the campus of Florida State University in Tallahassee there in Florida.
One of those said to be in critical condition, and we have been told that the suspect has been arrested. The suspect in connection to the shooting
has been arrested. We'll have much more on this in the coming minutes. But this coming in to us just in the last few moments. I want to return,
though, as we gather more information on this breaking news story to really that press conference there, that gathering, that meeting between President
Trump and Giorgia Meloni.
As you heard -- as you heard there, Italian Prime Minister visiting Donald Trump, clearly seeing eye-to-eye. The first one to visit, European since,
of course, he put those tariffs in place. And her aim here is to see whether she can help or convince the President to reach some sort of deal
on tariffs when it comes to the EU.
The two leaders have been meeting amid, of course, these tariffs and this 90-day pause, I should say, on tariffs, on 20 percent tariffs on the
European Union. Prime Minister Meloni has been calling for scrapping reciprocal tariffs between them both. President Trump, she says he's a 100
percent confident about the prospect of reaching an agreement with Brussels. This is what he said earlier. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What if there is not a trade deal with the EU by the time of the end of your 90-day pause on reciprocal tariffs?
TRUMP: Oh, there will be a trade deal, at least --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President --
TRUMP: Why you think there won't be a -- of course, there will be a trade deal very much. They want to make one very much. And we're going to make a
trade deal. I fully expect it, but it will be a fair deal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:20:00]
SOARES: Well, the Prime Minister seems to have much warmer relationship with President Trump than her EU counterparts, thanks in no small part to
their shared hardline stances on issues such as immigration, which we heard there going in and talking about, criticizing illegal immigration, talking
about woke ideology, saying also, we hope to make, the West great again.
Some of the lines we heard from Giorgia Meloni. Well, our Ben Wedeman is in Rome for us. But first, I want to go to White House and CNN Betsy Klein for
us. And Betsy, I want to leave Italy for just a second, and perhaps focus on what I heard from the President attacking repeatedly, I should say,
Jerome Powell, the Fed chair, who, of course, was on the wake of this message he put out today on Truth Social on the back of the European
Central Bank.
ECB cutting interest rates, we got him super angry, and he said the Fed Reserve chairman is playing politics, I'm not happy with him, interest
rates should be down. And then he also said Powell will leave if I ask him. Talk -- just talk to the importance of that. I know they've always been
quibbling for some time, these two for -- since the first term, but this is different now.
BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE PRODUCER: Certainly, it's different, because it comes on the backdrop of this significant economic stability as
a result of the President's tariffs, and of course, that subsequent 90-day pause on some tariffs as well as this intensifying trade war with China.
But the President there really sharply going after Jerome Powell.
He said interest rates should be down. He said members of the Federal Reserve are not very smart people. He chastised Powell for not doing more
to bring rates down and really expanded upon that post to social media earlier this morning that essentially said that Powell should be
terminated. Of course, the President has previously threatened to remove Powell from his post.
And Powell, for his part, has said that he plans to serve the remainder of his term. It's not entirely clear whether the President has the authority
to remove Powell from office. Of course, Powell remaining strong there, saying he's not going to leave, but certainly, something that we'll be
watching quite closely in the coming days and weeks, and how Powell responds to this and whether it impacts his plans to change interest rates
in the coming -- in the coming weeks ahead.
SOARES: Yes, he said the Fed owes -- the Fed owes a cut to the American people, which I thought that was interesting. The pressure that's putting
on the Fed chairman. Let me go to our Ben Wedeman, and just focus for just a moment, Ben, on what we heard. Do we have Ben with us? Yes, we do, what
we heard from Giorgia Meloni.
Look, these two know each other well. They are aligned ideologically, Ben. We heard Meloni hitting on those key points of, you know, on migration, on
woke ideology and then saying, she said again, well, we hope to make the West great again. But the timing of this is interesting, given, of course,
these tariffs, these 90-day pause as we try to get a trade deal. What did you make of what we heard from her?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, Isa, what we heard in that dog's breakfast of a press conference was that, these
are two leaders who do seem to see eye-to-eye. They certainly -- it's a great mutual admiration club there, but in reality, they don't necessarily
see eye-to-eye on some things.
For instance, Italy did vote to impose retaliatory tariffs on the United States, along with 25 other members of the European Union. In retaliation
to the Independence Day, the April 2nd blanket tariffs that Trump imposed upon the European community. Now, those retaliatory EU tariffs have been
suspended after Trump paused for 90 days.
The 2nd of April, tariffs on Europe and certainly Meloni does have the advantage of -- she's been in power for three years, which is quite an
achievement for an Italian Prime Minister, represents somebody who the European Union is hoping will act as an interlocutor, so-to-speak, with the
Trump administration to get it to lessen the severity of the tariffs that he wants to impose on Europe.
Now, how that's going to happen is a good question. Keep in mind that trade agreements are not something you can work out overnight. They are
complicated agreements. Look at how long it took Britain to work out its post-Brexit agreement with the European Union.
[14:25:00]
On things like Ukraine, Meloni has been a -- despite her previous positions tend leaning in the direction of Russia, she has been a consistent
supporter of Ukraine after the full-scale Russian invasion of that country in February of 2022. She's met with Zelenskyy more than a dozen times since
that war began. And we did say that she's a -- we heard -- hear her say she's a supporter of the freedom of Ukraine. Trump not such an enthusiastic
supporter, certainly, of the Ukrainian position and definitely not of Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
SOARES: Indeed --
WEDEMAN: Isa --
SOARES: Let's take -- let's stick with Ukraine. Let me go to our Nic Robertson who is listening in. And Nic, President Trump saying he does not
-- do we have Nic? OK, he does not blame President Zelenskyy for what? For the war. But he also said that he expects a minerals deal to be signed.
This mineral's deal that we've all been waiting on for some time to be signed, he said, next Thursday, I wrote down if I can read my handwriting.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, we got -- we got a couple of versions of it, didn't we? I think there was a next Thursday
and then Scott Bessent was asked and he said, the 20th of April, we've heard from President Zelenskyy today saying that he expects there to be a
memorandum of intent about a minerals deal to be signed, you know, fairly soon.
You know, money -- I've got to tell you, I just jumped back in here to the European trade tariff stuff, and I thought there was a couple of takeaways
from Giorgia Meloni that were really interesting because that -- there was a point in her discussion. She said, look, we've talked about defense,
economy, space, energy.
And she said, and I guess we'll be buying more liquid natural gas from the United States. Wow, what a line. Because of course, there's been this sort
of rumor coming out of the United States that hasn't been understood in Europe, that the U.S. perhaps thinks that they can offset this trade
imbalance that Trump perceives by buying more liquefied natural gas from the United States.
So, here's Meloni saying -- well, I think she's informing us here, actually, that that's something that's going to be coming along. And I
thought it was interesting that she stuck up for the European Union on the issue of migration. Italy down, she said -- well, either he -- either she
said or Trump has said Italy itself reduced migration to Italy by 60 percent.
But when Trump tried to sort of take a blow at the European Union for being bad on immigration, she said, you know, actually if you look at the stats
on what's happening over the past couple of years, that is changing. So I think -- look, you do see here, Meloni in this role, the White House hopes
that she can be, that what perhaps she thinks she can be about being this bridge between the European Union and the U.S. And of course, she's invited
Trump to come to Italy where --
SOARES: Yes --
ROBERTSON: She says there can be this European Union meeting. So, you know, that would send a strong message to European partners that she's
there on their behalf as well, sticking up for the European Union. So --
SOARES: Yes --
ROBERTSON: The messaging looking good both ways.
SOARES: Building a bridge, so-to-speak. She -- besides LNG, she also said we want to work together with nuclear, which I thought was interesting.
Just before we go, Ben, let me go back to you on that point that Nic was making regarding an invitation to Italy. I mean, we know President Trump
has made no secret to be completely honest of his animosity or even some within his administration towards Europe. What kind of reception would he
receive, would he get if he were to visit Italy?
WEDEMAN: Well, we've seen recent opinion polls that a majority, two-thirds of Italians are very unhappy about the American imposition of tariffs on
the EU, of course, paused at the moment. And President Trump, I think here back in January right when he was inaugurated, he had a 42 percent positive
rate from Italians.
That has fallen to 23 percent since then. So, the Italians are not big fans of President Trump. On the other hand, Prime Minister Meloni is -- has
survived for three years as Prime Minister, which is something of an accomplishment for an Italian Prime Minister. There are many people who are
unhappy with her policies, for instance, on migration.
Italy has spent hundreds of millions of dollars trying to set up a reception center for illegal migrants entering Italy and Albania. The
center is in Albania, but they have yet to receive a single migrant because the European court and Italian courts have made it clear that what she's
doing is illegal nonetheless.
So, her policy in that regard has not been particularly successful. The economy -- well, the economy has improved somewhat. Unemployment is down in
Italy, but she has many critics here. Nonetheless, when President Trump comes, I don't think we can expect massive demonstrations because Italians
are a little distracted with just trying to get by under the current circumstances. But as I said, two-thirds of Italians are unhappy with the
tariffs that the United States is trying to impose on Italy. So, Trump is generally not particularly well-liked here.
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Well, she's got the moniker of the Trump whisperer, doesn't she? Let's see if she is effective today with
President Trump. Betsy, Ben, and Nic Robertson, really appreciate it. Thank you.
Let's get more on the story. Joining me now is Giovanni Orsina. He's the head of the political science department in Luiss Guido Carli University.
Giovanni, welcome to the show. I don't -- I'm not sure whether you heard the -- both presidents, the Prime Minister Meloni and President Trump,
clearly, they get on. How much is riding, would you say, on her visit here on what relates to a trade deal and trying to avoid any sort of tariff war
here?
GIOVANNI ORSINA, HEAD OF POLITICAL SCIENCE DEPARTMENT, LUISS GUIDO CARLI: Well, thank you for adding me first. And well, I wouldn't, of course, you
know, imagine that this meeting is over important and everything is depending on its success, but I think that this can be one step forward
towards the negotiation between the U.S. and Europe on tariffs and more generally on other issues and also on the bilateral relations of U.S. and
Italy.
The situation at the moment, as we know, is at our -- at a very low level. So, anything that can help lower that level is welcome. And I think that
Meloni's trip can be an important set towards bettering these relations. Now, of course, this is not going to be final decision or, you know, change
everything overnight, but I think that this can be a relevant first step.
SOARES: Do you -- speaking as Italian but also as European here, do you see her as a bridge to Washington or do you think her visit will rattle
some leading European invoices in Europe? I'm thinking of the likes of Ursula von der Leyen here.
ORSINA: I think that she can act as a bridge. I mean, again, I wouldn't overemphasize it. I mean, there are many bridges and there is a lot going
on and countries, of course, have their own interests. And so, I wouldn't say that, you know, personal relations or ideological affinity can, you
know, do the trick almost magically and change interests and clashes of interests.
But I think that she can help. And she has made it very clear before this meeting many times, and Ursula von der Leyen too has made it very clear
many times that they were seeing eye to eye. They were in complete agreement. They're listening very, very careful not to let this visit be
portrayed as an attack on the European Union, rather as an attempt to make the relations between the E.U. and the U.S. better in the interest of both
partners. And I think that she has also demonstrated that in the press conference today.
So, I think that she has really worked together with the European Commission on that even though we know that not all European countries were
particularly happy about this. But finally, I think most of them have come to seeing this trip as something that can help the relationship.
SOARES: Yes, and we saw her on that point, Giovanni, we did see her defend Europe when it relates to immigration -- to migration, I should say. She
said, you know, over the last two years, numbers have reduced. She also took her very strong stance as she always has done on new Ukraine.
And she has taken a -- like President Trump, she has taken a tough line on Putin. Do you think she can persuade President Trump to pressure Russia
because President Trump was asked how much longer, you know, are you going to give Putin? And he said, you know, we will hear from Putin this week,
hearing of him very shortly. Do you think she can bend his ear on this?
ORSINA: That is why it's difficult. I mean, I don't think that Meloni can persuade Trump, of course. I mean, she's part of a more general
international situation that is also, you know, moving the situation and the decisions of President Trump. And I think that what can change Trump's
stance on Russia is Russia itself, that is not at all participating or cooperating towards a peace deal. I think that is the most relevant thing.
[14:35:00]
I think though that Meloni asked Kashlin (ph) something today. I mean, a clear statement that Europeans are not parasites which is quite relevant.
And a clear statement that Zelenskyy is not -- the fault of the war is not Zelenskyy's, which was quite clearly said, which I think is something of an
improvement. And certainly of course she defended also beyond migration, but because this is a very main line for her because her line in Italy is,
I have convinced the E.U., I've changed the European policies towards migration.
SOARES: Yes, and he said not responsible for Zelenskyy and/or anyone involved, but he did add not that he was not happy with him. Giovanni, I
really appreciate the time you've taken to speak to us and for staying on much longer. Thank you very much, Giovanni. Appreciate it.
And as we told you --
ORSINA: Thank you.
SOARES: And as we told you at the top of the hour, we continue to follow breaking news out of Florida, at least six people have been injured in a
mass shooting on a campus in the State of -- Florida State University. A Tallahassee hospital says at least one person is in critical condition. One
suspect has been arrested in connection to the shooting. The university confirmed the shooting on social media and is telling students to shelter
in place.
Let's bring our Ryan Young who -- to bring us up to date. So, Ryan, just for our viewers just joining us, bring us up to date with the very latest
here.
RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, very quickly here. Florida State University is located in Tallahassee, Florida, which is
the capital of Florida. It is near the state capitol. So, you have that whole apparatus there.
Around 12:02, there was a tweet put out by the university telling everyone to shelter in place that there was reports of an active shooter. And then
from there, we do know at this point there have been several weapons that have been found on that campus, and the shooter has been taken into custody
according to law enforcement sources. We also know from the hospital team there that one person is in critical and five others are in serious
condition.
Now, what they're doing right now is they're going dorm by dorm, also campus building by campus building to try to clear some of these kids.
They're going to take them to the Civic Center and have them be reunite with family members or friends. But at that point, there are so many people
on this campus that remain on lockdown.
There is -- just trying to make sure, an abundance of caution to make sure there was only one shooter involved in this case. Right now, we don't have
any additional information about whether the shooter was injured, what that status of that situation is, but we do know from talking to law enforcement
sources, there are a blood trail on campus. They have been following these details to try to figure out exactly what's going on in terms of who was
injured. There could be more numbers as we go through the afternoon.
This campus, the student union where this happened is pretty much the center of campus. I attended university there, and that campus is a very
large open campus. About 30,000 students attend this university. It's really the hub of Leon County, Tallahassee, Florida. It's almost its own
city within itself. And that union is really the place where so many students come and gather every single day. There's like, clubs there. There
are student university events happening there.
And so, all that has been canceled right now. But right now, the eyes of the nation are on this campus, trying to figure out exactly what happened.
What happened to the shooter and what created the shooting. We do know a shotgun and a handgun were discovered there on campus so far I.
SOARES: Ryan, I know you'll stay across it. You'll bring us up to date if they have more information, but clearly very concerning at this hour. Thank
you very much indeed.
Let me get more on this. Let me go to Brett Bruen, he's a national security council office -- official for Former President Obama. Great to see you,
Brett. Wish we were in better circumstances. So, we heard that from Ryan, giving us a sense of what we are hearing right now. Still very much
breaking. But I found interesting what he said, this is an open campus, buildings are pretty spread out. That would be pretty difficult to go --
take quite time consuming to go through each one of those buildings to ascertain that everyone is safe and secure.
BRETT BRUEN, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL OFFICIAL IN OBAMA WH: And you can imagine the fear, the anxiety that that creates if you're holed up in one
of these buildings. And, you know, that unfortunately is a very slow process because American universities, particularly these large state
universities are quite spread out. They involve a whole lot of buildings, and you want to make sure that there aren't secondary individuals involved
or any other threats that could be there and that's the process that a law enforcement currently is undertaking.
SOARES: And do you know what we were hearing the last few minutes, Brett, just as you was talking, I'm being informed that Tallahassee Police said
they were expected to give a news conference soon. Of course, as soon as we bring that to everyone's attention -- if that happens, we'll bring that to
everyone's attention. But how does the university -- Brett, just very quickly, a university like FSU prepare for something like this?
[14:40:00]
What sort of security measures can be put in place for such a large -- as like you outlined there, for such a large -- and Ryan, an open campus.
BRUEN: Well one, this is sadly a feature of American school life. So, American students are from elementary school up through secondary and
university, very familiar with these active shooter drills. They will have been through numerous simulations of that and they will know what to do.
When it comes to how do you secure, there are going to be locations on campus where students, faculty, and other staff members can have more
secure facilities. And you know, a lot of those facilities are reinforced. The doors, the windows and other installations because we've had so many of
these incidents.
I have to say also, this is going to be a task for President Trump. He obviously is facing his first national security crisis in this situation.
And, you know, how he responds will, I think, be indicative of whether or not just not only on the issue of the right to bear arms, but what is he,
what is his administration going to do to ensure that America's universities are more secure?
SOARES: Yes, and he did say, as you heard in meeting there, Brett, with the Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni, that he'd been briefed on the
situation, but he wasn't asked any further questions on this. We are hearing from FSU that all university activities have been canceled through
tomorrow. But it -- and the commission has said -- the city commission -- Tallahassee, I should say, city commission is saying that the community is
on high alert.
And I think he highlighted because given of course the -- how large this campus is, but also what Ryan was saying there, the number -- a handgun was
found on the person law enforcement took into custody. A shotgun was also found, and another gun was found in the same suspect's car. This is
incredibly nerve wracking for students, for parents, right across the state.
BRUEN: It is. And one consideration to bear in mind is you will also have a lot of students that are not from Florida.
SOARES: Yes.
BRUEN: Students who come from other parts of the country. So, this does have national implications. It also, because of the size of these public
universities, it will touch every aspect. People in Tallahassee will know numerous people who work or study at the university. So, it does have a
wide-reaching touch and implicates the entire community.
I do think you, know, this is obviously also Governor Ron DeSantis home state. He will obviously be intimately involved in the response to this.
And again, the questions will fall to him. Governor, what are you going to do to ensure that your state universities are more secure because this
happened on your watch?
SOARES: Sorry to send you -- to throw this curve of all, Brett. Did we have -- just for viewers around the world and for myself included, did we
have a sense of the number of students attending this university? This is - - because you're talking about how large of a campus it is. Give us a sense of the size here.
BRUEN: Yes, without a precise figure, it's going to be around 30,000 students.
SOARES: Wow.
BRUEN: And that's just the number of students. You have an extraordinary number of staff and faculty, as well as just others from the community that
go on for events or activities that are taking place. And so, it is an enormous community of individuals, and obviously all of them are directly
involved as the university campus is on lockdown. So, you have essentially a small European city that is, for all intents and purposes right now, hold
up.
SOARES: Yes, there's a lot we do not know at this hour. We are trying to gather more information. What we do know, the breaking news we've been
following if you're just joining us, at least six people have been injured in a mass shooting on the campus of Florida State University. Tallahassee
Hospital, as Brett and I were just speaking there, at least one person is in critical condition.
One suspect has been arrested in connection to the shooting, but we have very little in terms of details about this suspect. We have been told that
Tallahassee Police will give a press briefing. Of course, we'll bring that to you as soon as it gets underway. Our thanks to Brett Bruen there for
taking the time to speak to us.
Still to come here tonight, break -- President Trump suggests that if it were up to him, Fed Chair Jerome Powell could soon be out of a job. We'll
speak to CNN's Richard Quest about the implications of that increasingly frosty relationship.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:00]
SOARES: U.S. President Donald Trump is hitting out at Fed Chair Jerome Powell, writing on social media, quote, as you can see there, "His
termination cannot come fast enough." U.S. stocks dropped on Wednesday after Powell warned that the president's on again, off again tariffs and
the uncertainty surrounding them could inflict lasting damage on the U.S. economy.
Mr. Trump's comments, well, they aren't the first time he's hit out at the Fed chair. As a candidate, the president suggested he could do the job
better, have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I think it's the greatest job in government. You show up to the office once a month. And you say, let's see, flip a
coin. And everybody talks about you like you're a God. I think I have the right to say that, you know, I think I'm better than he would be. I think
I'm better than most people would be in that position. I think I have the right to say, I think you should go up or down a little bit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: For more on this, I'm joined by the anchor of "Quest Means Business" and CNN's business-editor-large Richard Quest. Richard, you and
I, last time we had the Fed speak and make a decision there, we spoke about this. This is not new. He's been lashing against him for the first term.
But look, just -- we heard him just now with Meloni and I was -- I mean, I -- repeatedly he said, Fed chairman who is playing politics, interest rates
should be down, the ECB reduced rate seven times. Powell need to do it. He owes it to the American people. And then he said, Powell could leave if I
ask him.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE AND ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: Oh, and then he went on to say after he made -- having called
him terrible, incompetent.
SOARES: Yes.
QUEST: Then he went on to say -- with that, sort of, Donald Trump menacingly, sort of, mob-like, you know, he said, if I wanted Powell to go,
believe me, he'd be gone. And you know, that was really like, that's a nice car you've got out there. You wouldn't like something to happen to it.
I mean, this -- look, here's where we are with this. You're right, Isa. We've heard it all before, and the market knows that Donald Trump can't
fire Powell. However, and this is where you get the market knows he can't fire him. But what if he could?
SOARES: Yes.
QUEST: What if he done?
SOARES: That was my question.
QUEST: What if it happens? What if he really puts pressure? What -- and that's --
SOARES: Yes, that's my question.
QUEST: Exactly.
SOARES: Tell me, can -- OK. It's independent. Can he fire him? Can he --
QUEST: No, Powell said --
SOARES: That's the concern.
[14:50:00]
QUEST: Powell has said, and it's well documented, the conventional wisdom is he can't be fired. He could be impeached only at the highest level by
Congress. But here's the problem. Let's just say, it's same as birthright citizenship. Let's say, the president, as he is doing now, is putting so
much chaff into the air. So much confusion. So much questioning. And bearing in mind, we know that next June -- well, we know in January, he
gets to replace one Fed governor, and next June he gets to replace Powell.
So, there is enough, nod, nod, wink, wink, watch, watch, I'm going to put pressure that the market could, could eventually say, hang on, we don't
like the smell of this. The independence of the central bank is now starting to be questioned. If that happens, all bets are off. Turn off the
lights on the way out, please.
SOARES: But -- and then it's -- that's the aspect, isn't it, of undermining the credibility --
QUEST: Completely.
SOARES: -- and the position of the Fed chair and the impact that has, potentially.
QUEST: Yes, because your credibility is only as good as people believe it to be. You know, don't fight the Fed. Don't mess with the Fed. But the
moment you believe -- go ahead. Yes.
SOARES: No, go ahead. Finish your thought. Yes.
QUEST: Well, the moment you believe that the president is not only going to undermine Powell, but he is going to replace the next Fed chair. He's
going to -- the next Fed chair and the next Fed governor with somebody pliable, malleable, compliant, then I think you're into a very different
game because you'll still have three years left also of his term when he could have a Fed that is not perceived to be independent.
Remember Christine Lagarde today in her press conference, President Lagarde came to the rescue and defense of Jerome Powell.
SOARES: And in case anyone has forgotten, Richard, it was Trump who put him in that position --
QUEST: Well -- yes. But that --
SOARES: -- in the first place, right?
QUEST: Yes. Yes, it was. But remember why he put him in that place. He was the vice chair. And who did he want to get rid of? He wanted to get rid of
Janet Yellen. So, he shoved her out the door.
SOARES: Yes.
QUEST: First woman Fed chair. Put Powell in thinking Powell was going to be his man. It's a nice car there. Shame if something happened to it. And
now look what we've got going forward.
SOARES: We are running out of time, but I'm sure in your show, Richard, in about an hour or so --
QUEST: Oh, yes.
SOARES: -- you are looking to those allegations. The ECB has cut rates. Why are we not cutting rates? You'll be looking at that, no doubt. Richard
Quest there for us out of New York.
QUEST: Thank you.
SOARES: Thank you, Richard.
QUEST: Thank you.
SOARES: We're going to take a short break. We'll see you on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:00]
SOARES: It is been a busy hour breaking news, and we have some more news just coming into CNN. The U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to hear arguments
in the dispute of restricting automatic birthright citizenship. President Donald Trump wants to end the practice of giving citizenship to illegal
children of illegal immigrants if they're born in the United States. And keep in mind, the 14th amended -- amendment of the U.S. Constitution says,
anyone born on U.S. soil is a citizen.
And let me quickly update you on the breaking news we brought you at the top of the hour. At least six people have been injured in a mass shooting
on the campus of Florida State University. We've been told that one of the victims is set to be in a critical condition. We have also been told that a
suspect has been arrested in connection to the shooting.
Students, we have been told, to shelter in place. In the meantime, all classes, events, activities, business operations at the university have
been canceled, being told through tomorrow. Do stay tuned right here. We'll have much more on the breaking news situation with my colleague Max Foster.
That does it for me today. Max Foster's next with Newsroom.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
