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Isa Soares Tonight

Pope Francis Dies At Age 88. World Leaders Pay Tribute To Pope Francis; Pope's Cause Of Death Stroke And Heart Failure; Honoring the Life And Legacy Of Pope Francis; Hegseth Lashing Out On Second Signal Chat Scandal; Trump Defends Hegseth; U.S. Stocks Fall As Trump Slams Powell; Remembering Pope Francis. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired April 21, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

MAX FOSTER, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: Hello, I'm Max Foster in for ISA SOARES TONIGHT. He was a champion of the poor, a voice for social justice,

and the moral conscience of more than a billion Catholics around the world. Mourners are gathering in St. Peter's Square to remember the life and

legacy of Pope Francis, who died just a day after Easter at the age of 88.

This hour, a traditional rite takes place. The pope's body will be placed in his coffin during a certification of death ceremony. A short time ago,

this was the scene at St. Peter's Square, as a rosary prayer was read by Cardinal Mauro Gambetti. He called Pope Francis a pilgrim of hope who never

disappointed.

Earlier today, bells tolled at St. Peter's Square as nine days of mourning began. The pope's body could lie in state at St. Peter's basilica as soon

as Wednesday, so mourners come -- can come and pay their respects. Now, Pope Francis continued his ministry right until the very end, despite

recently suffering double pneumonia.

He delighted crowds just yesterday on Easter Sunday, waving to the faithful from his popemobile. The pope broke ground in so many ways, including

pushing to modernize the Catholic Church. His death will now open a debate about the church's future direction, and who should take over the reins.

We're joined now by Bishop Paul Tighe; Secretary of the Dicastery for Culture and Education at the Vatican. He's live for us in Rome. Thank you

so much for joining us on this very difficult day, I know for the whole church. Are you able to sum up how people are feeling there today?

PAUL TIGHE, SECRETARY OF DICASTERY FOR CULTURE & EDUCATION, VATICAN: Yes, it's been a very strange day for all of us here, I mean, it's strange. It

was a shock this morning to hear the news, and yet, at the same time, it wasn't a complete surprise, if that's not a contrast. But you know, there's

the shock that something that was seen to be on the horizon, that was clearly the pope was not doing well.

He had overcome a crisis, but it wasn't clear where the whole illness was going. And that's kind of resolved today. To some extent, I think, you

know, the way he went, I'm delighted he had his Easter. He had his day yesterday when what he always wanted to do was give his life in service for

other people.

People may argue that the choice to be public, to be out there yesterday, to meet people, was probably not the choice doctors would have made for

him. But this was this man. He wanted to be among the people, he gave his life for people continuously. And I think his death is an example, embodies

many of his fundamental values.

I think, you know, over the last while, I've been thinking about him, I remember feeling he wasn't a man I could have imagined being retired. He

wasn't a man who would have been able to just live life for his own sake, surviving. He was a man who saw life as a gift, a gift that is given to us

that we put in service of others, something that he embodied so fully himself.

FOSTER: He was the latest in a long line of popes, wasn't he? How would you define him? What made him different from the others?

TIGHE: I think what made him different from the others was that he came to Rome very late in life, and I think he had a slightly different view of the

church to many others. I think he saw the church not so much as an institution, but more as a community of believers whose job was to journey

of one of his favorite words, to be pilgrims.

[14:05:00]

To go through life, journeying, traveling with other people, and trying to contribute to the well-being of our world. So, who was a pope who valued

the church, but he valued the church as a community that could be of service to others, that could work with others to make up this world a

better place, especially for those who are most disadvantaged, those who are poor, those who are suffering, those whose circumstances had obliged to

migration.

He had a huge sense of sympathy, empathy and compassion for those who are disadvantaged. And he lived that fully, and he wanted the church to be on

the side of the poor. Even his choice of the name, Francis was clearly a choice to be a pope for the poor and with the poor.

FOSTER: Simplicity is a word I often heard today as well. How he didn't want to live in the palace. He lived a very simple life, was always very

careful about, you know, not wasting the church's money. And also, you know, it's always going to be a difficult position, isn't it? There are two

wings of the church, you're never going to satisfy both. But do you think he made some major changes? And if so, what were they?

TIGHE: I think he made major changes in a sense that I think he challenged all of us who are in the church, who work with the church, who all of us

believers, to think more about, not so much ourselves and our own church, but to think about the people around us, particularly about the less

fortunate, and to be attentive to them and to their needs.

And I think that will be part of his lasting legacy. I think part of that was -- and I think that simplicity, that directness, that lack of maybe

being overly diplomatic at times struck a chord with people. And I'm very struck that very often, those who appreciated Pope Francis the most were

those who were somewhat, maybe distant from the church, but who saw in him a person who was trying to bring us back to core human values, and to put

the church on the side of those who are working for the good of all.

FOSTER: Bishop Paul Tighe, thoughts with everyone in the church today. Thank you very much for joining us from Rome.

TIGHE: Thank you very much, Max --

FOSTER: We're going to go straight to the Vatican now. Ben Wedeman is live for us in St. Peter's Square. And sir, you know, there is some sadness, of

course, that he's passed, but there's also a lot of people talking about the poetry, really, of the timing of his death, and the fact he was able to

work right up until his last day.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, certainly, he left this world the way he lived it. He was involved to the very last

moment. I remember the final weeks and months of Pope John Paul II back in 2005. He was in very bad condition, barely able to function, and it was a

long, drawn-out illness before he passed away.

With Pope Francis, of course, he was in the Gemelli Hospital suffering from double pneumonia for 38 days. But two weeks ago, he came out after first

appearing on a balcony at the hotel there, he waved at us from his Fiat Cinquecento as he left the hospital, and the assumption was that he would

slowly regain his level of activity, even though the doctors told him to rest.

Please, rest for at least two months when he got out of the hospital. But this was a man known to be very stubborn, very headstrong. He insisted on

getting back to work, and yesterday, was probably his most active public day since leaving the hospital, prior to driving around in St. Peter's

Square behind me in the popemobile and greeting the crowd, he had met with U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance.

He has been doing something every single day since getting out of the hospital, and it was a shock. It was a shock. I, like many other people

here in Rome, assumed that he was on demand. And to hear this morning, just around breakfast time, that he had passed away really jolted so many of us.

But yes, he was serving, working, speaking, preaching to almost the very last moment of his very long life. Max.

FOSTER: Just describe what's -- the scene behind you will look like over the next few days, because it becomes a pilgrimage, doesn't it? For many

people affected by this death, they just -- they're drawn to the square behind you.

WEDEMAN: Yes, for many Catholics, this is now the center of attention. And it's not going to be days. It is going to be weeks that people are focused,

of course, the lead up to the funeral, the funeral, and after the funeral for the conclave, when more than 250 popes, approximately will make their

way to Rome from around the world to participate in the conclave, where his -- the successor of Pope Francis will be elected.

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Now, back in 2013, the conclave took two days. There were five ballots, the final one, of course, resulting in white smoke, and the selection or rather

the election of Jorge Bergoglio, who took the name of Francis. So, yes, this is going to be very much the focus of people. And what I saw back in

2013, on the evening of March 13th, we were at the very end of the Via della Conciliazione, which leads to the Vatican.

That was when we saw the white smoke. And what we saw was hundreds of people, residents, not just tourists, but residents of the city of Rome

flocking up that long boulevard to St. Peter's Square to wait to hear the announcement from the balcony behind me in pope -- in St. Peter's basilica

to hear the name of the new pope.

And of course, at the time, you know, there was much speculation, Max, who it might be, and Jorge Bergoglio, who became Francis, was not a name that

was on many people's lips at the time. And I turned to my cameraman, Alessandro Gentile(ph), and our producer, Caroline Paterson(ph), and we all

said, who is it? Who is that?

But there are those, obviously, the true Vaticanistic like our Chris Lamb, who have a much better idea of who is coming next. But that aside, there is

much drama to come in the next few weeks. Max.

FOSTER: You'll be there throughout, Ben, thank you so much for bringing us that from St. Peter's Square. The Catholic Church has entered into a nine-

day period of mourning then, following the passing of Pope Francis, much of what comes next is predetermined. The cardinals will decide when to hold

the funeral, and after that, figure out when the conclave can begin to elect the successor.

It typically starts two weeks, roughly after the pope's passing away. Joining us now is Dr. Kurt Martens. He's a professor at the Catholic

University School of Canon Law, and he knows this process very well because, doctor, it is very laid out, isn't it? And I think the first

moment we're going to see today is when we see the coffin, perhaps.

KURT MARTENS, PROFESSOR, CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF CANON LAW: Yes, that's right. Everything has been planned for centuries. Pope Francis

actually changed the funeral liturgy a little bit, with little details that were tweaked, but it's pretty much the same as we've seen with John Paul II

in 2005.

So, tonight or at this moment as we're speaking, is the official recognition of the death of the Roman pontiff. And so, then they will lay

him in his coffin. That's a little changed. They're not carrying him around on a piece of wood that's draped with red velvet. But they're going to put

him in his chapel for a few moments, and then as soon as tomorrow night, when they are going to transfer him to St. Peter's basilica to be -- for

the faithful to be able to pay their respects to him. And then, of course, the cardinal --

FOSTER: Yes --

MARTENS: Oh, sorry.

FOSTER: No --

MARTENS: Right --

FOSTER: The funeral, I understand would be 5 to 7 days away, but that date will be set tomorrow by the congregation of cardinals. Is that correct?

MARTENS: That is correct. That's the general congregation. It's called for tomorrow what we hear. And so, the cardinals who are present in Rome,

electors and non-electors will decide on that. So, it's between 4 and 6 days after the death of the Roman pontiff that we're looking at a funeral.

The day of the funeral is actually the first day of the nine days of mourning, the novemdiales. So, the nine days don't start today. They start

with the day of the funeral.

FOSTER: And then, of course, we move into the conclave phase, which is obviously held in complete secrecy. Ben was talking about how we'll be

looking to whether or not smoke, white smoke comes from, you know, this glorious --

MARTENS: That's right --

FOSTER: Scene that we're looking at right now. Ben was also talking about - - you know, he's very experienced correspondent. He was talking about how they were so surprised to hear Pope Francis' name. But the reality is that

it's nearly always a surprise, isn't it? The successor, apart from perhaps Benedict, who some had touted. But the pope before and after him were

complete surprises, and that's often the case.

MARTENS: That's often the case. And actually, there is this rule, unwritten rule that whoever enters the conclave as pope comes out as a cardinal. In

other words, the favorite never win. And it was also the case in 2005 because everybody said, oh, Ratzinger is never going to become pope. What

we didn't know is that, what the cardinals were thinking, and that's the big -- the big key.

What are they thinking? Who are they looking at? What type of profile do we need for the church and the world? What are the problems we're dealing with

right now?

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And that's going to resolve some of the problems. But it's fun to make those lists and have them published and talk about that.

FOSTER: We should be realistic, though. It's a lot of politics as well, isn't it? You know, it's not necessarily choosing one successor that you're

going to stick with at the beginning of the conclave. There's a lot of politics that goes on as the process unfolds.

MARTENS: It is politics, absolutely. We're talking about 135 cardinals who are under the age of 80 and who are supposed to participate. Someone cannot

-- can choose not to participate if they're unable to come, if they have a legitimate reason. So, 135 voters, you need to have a two-third majority of

them for -- to be elected.

So, that's a huge majority. So, that means extremes usually don't get elected. That also means that with a group of people who really do not know

each other, say for the cardinals that are known by everyone, it's going to be an unpredictable conclave. That's what we're hearing everywhere.

FOSTER: OK, thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Kurt Martens, appreciate your time today.

MARTENS: Very well --

FOSTER: We just heard actually that the -- we've had the cause of death confirmed here on CNN. Pope Francis died of a stroke and heart failure.

We'll have some more details as they come through. But still to come, much more on our coverage of the death of Pope Francis. We'll have some of the

reaction pouring in from world leaders too.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: We are just learning from the Vatican. The official cause of death for Pope Francis. It says the 88-year-old pontiff died from a stroke and

heart failure. World leaders paying tributes today. U.S. President Donald Trump offered a brief statement online saying "rest in peace, Pope Francis.

May God bless him and all who loved him."

He's ordered flags to be flown at half-staff as a mark of respect for the memory of Pope Francis. Former U.S. President Barack Obama wrote, he's

remembering the pope as the rare leader who made us want to be better people. The Kremlin says Russian President Vladimir Putin will forever

cherish the brightest memory of Pope Francis.

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And Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says he's mourning the pope, who prayed for peace in Ukraine and for Ukrainians. Our Nic Robertson is

with us. Also, we've had a -- away from the cause of death, a few more details about how the funeral may play out.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: And what Pope Francis wanted in terms of where he should be buried, which he had said before back

in late 2003. It's the basilica of Saint Mary Major. This is the place of the four basilicas in the Vatican. This is the one that he chose, but it's

been quite specific here.

The details are here. I request that my tomb be prepared in the niche of the side of the nave, between the Pauline Chapel and the Chapel of Salus

Populi Romani. He goes on to say, the tomb must be on earth, simple, without particular decoration, and the only inscription should be

Franciscus, which was obviously his chosen name --

FOSTER: It's such reflection of his life. This very simple life he led.

ROBERTSON: This is the message -- this is the message he communicated when he was alive, and in his death, the message continues. It's a -- it's --

his not being buried, if you will, in the -- in the basilica of Saint Peter. Sort of where more of the popes have been buried. It's a simpler

basilica. It's as is described in very simple terms, so, yes, absolutely, communicating that message of simplicity, of humbleness.

And of course, this is what has struck the chord that he spoke for the simple person. He tried to bring peace for the simple people. He tried to

bring better lives for the simple, for the poorer. And this is where -- how he's being remembered by leaders, but absolutely, in his death, following

that through.

FOSTER: We're hearing tributes from President of Russia, President of Ukraine. He was quite outspoken, wasn't he? About the conflicts in the

world and how they were being perpetrated if I can say that.

ROBERTSON: He didn't criticize President Putin per se, but he was critical of the predicament that Russia had created in Ukraine, and had called for

an end to it, and the same in South Sudan, the same also in Gaza --

FOSTER: How did he --

ROBERTSON: Had called for the -- for the hostages to be released and an end of the war there. And I think a lot of people are understanding this was a

pope who potentially understood the weakness and frailty of his health. And when he came out, above St. Peter's Square yesterday, and the crowds could

see him and his speech was delivered not by him because he was too weak.

He spoke of the war in Gaza. You know, and this really tells people that even at the end of his life, this is what he understood. You know, think of

some of his early missions as well, to the Middle East and very early in his papacy. You know, it was -- it was a mission at that time to the

countries that were hotspots of violence.

Iraq was one of them. And it was a message of peace, of course, the Jesuits, of which he was one. That's where their foundation is, and that's

where their strength lay in sort of being the peacemakers, their founder, of course, being a knight injured and reflected and found his way to find

peace and strength through that mission of bringing peace.

FOSTER: Thank you so much. The pontiff, known affectionately as the people's pope, is being remembered by more than a billion Catholics around

the world as the first pope from the Americas. The 88-year-old's papacy leaves a lasting legacy there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): A man who has innovated the church, and a man who has left a great mark. And this absence causes great

pain.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I am truly in grief. I have been crying for God to receive him. May he rest in peace in the after-life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It is going to hurt the soul of the people that the pope has died, honestly. It hurts me like crazy. It hurts

me a lot because I agreed more than anything with his words in support of bisexuals and homosexuals, and it literally hurts me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We were honestly surprised with the news and very sad. We want to pray for his soul in this holy day after the

day of resurrection. May God receive him in heaven, in paradise, along with the souls of the saints. May God have mercy on his soul.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I thought he was a unique and extraordinary person. Also during COVID 19, as a priest, he got up every

day to pray for the world. He was simply a ten and died at a marvelous and beautiful time worthy of him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I feel sad because this was a person who always helped us in the street, always gave us food and

clothing. I feel sad, but what can I do? God knows everything.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): If we see the pope's death from a human point of view, farewell is always sad and a sorrowful thing. But from

a religious perspective, we can think that God called him because he had fulfilled all the missions from God. When we think of it that way, we must

give thanks and glory to God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was so brave yesterday. The fact that we saw him on TV with the crowds doing his duty to the very last moment. I respect him so

much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was very open to different communities, different cultures. So, we hope that the next person will follow this -- his lead and

be open to people that maybe are not really appreciated from the Catholic Church.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Still to come tonight, we'll go live to Mexico, in Argentina for a closer look at Pope Francis' impact across the Americas.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: The Vatican says Pope Francis died from a stroke and heart failure. The pope had been hospitalized for respiratory illness, and had only

recently left hospital. CNN's Ben Wedeman is live in St. Peter's Square. So, you know, it's not directly related to what happened in hospital, but

there may have been some sort of link.

WEDEMAN: Yes, I think the cumulative effect of his ill health, obviously, is what was sort of the final cause of his death. Keeping in mind that he

was, of course, in hospital for 38 days. He entered the hospital on the 14th of February, and several days later, he was diagnosed as suffering

from double pneumonia, pneumonia in both lungs. And the doctors who were treating him said twice during those 38 days they thought he was almost

going to die.

[14:30:23]

And so, we don't have the exact details -- no, the basic statement very brief out from the press office was heart stroke and failure. However, we

don't have more details than that at this point. But he was 88 years old. He'd been suffering from ill health for quite a long time. Respiratory

problems, mobility problems, sciatica. He had the part of his right lung removed years and years ago in his youth, but it was a persistent problem

with him.

So, he was 88 years old. He was not in good health, and so not a surprise. I mean, people who were here in St. Peters Square yesterday saw that he did

not look well. He did -- he was very sluggish, very slow to react. And so, the signs were there. The signs have been there for quite some time

actually. But yes, heart and stroke -- heart failure and stroke were the causes announced this evening from the Vatican Press Office. Max.

FOSTER: OK. Ben, thank you so much. Mourners began arriving there at St. Peter's Square shortly after the Vatican announced the pontiff had passed,

which was of course earlier today. Some in tears for the voice who overcame fierce resistance to reshape the Catholic church. Christopher Lamb takes a

look back at Pope Francis' monumental life.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A pope from the ends of the Earth. Francis was the first Latin American pontiff, the first

from Argentina.

A native of Buenos Aires, much of his life spent in the Argentine capital, shaping him as a future pope. Born Jorge Mario Bergoglio, the grandson of

Italian immigrants, he had an ordinary childhood growing up, playing soccer, developing a love of literature, and going to school to study

chemistry.

In a memoir he writes, he had a childhood infatuation with a little girl in florist, the pope sending her a letter with a promise.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): He said to me, if I don't marry you, I'll become a priest.

LAMB (voice-over): Francis, true to his word, first training for the priesthood and then joining the Jesuit order. Quickly identified as a

rising star. He was chosen to lead the Jesuits in Argentina at the young age of 36. It was a time of turmoil in his country during the brutal

military dictatorship. Bergoglio was accused of not doing enough to help two Jesuits kidnapped by the regime. He denied this and insisted he helped

people escape. But disagreements over his leadership style saw the Jesuit send Bergoglio into exile to this residence in Cordova, Central Argentina.

He went through a dark night of the soul and later admitted to making many mistakes, a lesson in humility.

Eventually, he was tapped to become a bishop and cardinal in Buenos Aires. He focused his time among the poorest communities.

OSCAR CRESPO, FRIEND OF POPE FRANCIS (through translator): He told me clearly, look, I said I'm going to be a priest because my goal is to be at

the service of the people. That's why I love going to the slums. That's why I'm going to the heart of the country.

LAMB (voice-over): Adopting a simple lifestyle, similar to the one he had as pope, never owning a car and using the subway to get around. He wanted a

church open to all and focused on those on the margins.

In the annual run up to Easter, he would often wash the feet of prisoners, something he continued as pontiff.

ELISABETTA PIQUE, POPE FRANCIS' BIOGRAPHER: His legacy is about this matter of a church open, a church inclusive, a church that is for all, not of a

little group of perfect people. But this is a pope who speaks to everybody and who speak specially to the people, to the seniors.

LAMB (voice-over): Despite his position, Francis tried not to take himself too seriously, loving to crack a joke, whether with world leaders or groups

of children.

MARIA ELENA BERGOGLIO, SISTER OF POPE FRANCIS (through translator): He has a great sense of humor. I think he got that from my father. When he had to

be firm for something, he was, but with good humor.

LAMB (voice-over): But relations with his homeland weren't always easy. He never managed to visit home after becoming pope in 2013. He was unafraid to

criticize those in power and wasn't always popular with Argentina's politicians.

[14:35:00]

The first Latin American pope chosen to lead the Catholic church leaves a lasting impression, a pontiff who came from the ends of the Earth and

called on the church to go out to the peripheries. What he began in Argentina, he continued during his papacy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Our thanks to Christopher Lamb for that report. Now, news of Pope Francis' death echoing in bell towers worldwide.

In Mexico City, cathedral bells rang shortly after the pontiff's passing. Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum says the pope was a, quote, "humanist"

who stood for the poor, peace, and equality. She's one of many leaders across the Americas who are paying tribute to Pope Francis this week. The

region is home to about half of the world's Catholic population.

Valeria Leon joins us now from Mexico City. And, you know, this was his region, wasn't it?

VALERIA LEON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Max, with the second largest Catholic population in the world, Mexico received the news of the dead of the pope

of -- Francis, pope, by tolling Mexico City Cathedral bells a hundred times.

Pope Francis visited this cathedral in 2016. And now, a mass is being held in his honor. Many Mexicans have gathered here to celebrate his legacy and

also to mourn his loss. And President Sheinbaum said in a message this morning through X that it was a great loss, and she described him as a

great humanist that always supported the poor. Also, she said that it was a great privilege and honor to have known him.

And Pope Francis visited four Mexican states, including Chiapas and also Michoacan and the border city of Ciudad Juarez, where he had addressed many

issues, including violence against migrants. He also rejected anti- immigration policies. And also, he rejected this drug related killings in Mexico, including general violence in the country.

And as the first Latin American pope, many of his legacies has been remembered here. Many Mexicans have gathered right now to honor his memory

in this mass that is being held in this -- in the cathedral in Mexico City. Max.

FOSTER: Valeria Leon, thank you so much for joining us from there. People around the world honoring the pope after his passing, especially in the

pontiff's home country of Argentina, of course. The country's president is declared seven days of mourning. And a mass is going to be held for him at

the cathedral in Bueno Aires.

Let's bring in CNN's Cecilia Dominguez who's in Buenos Aires. And you know, he was a son of that country, so the connection is particularly tight.

CECILIA DOMINGUEZ, CNN REPORTER: It's a very, very sad day in Argentina. As you may imagine, mourners. Have gathered during the morning, during the

afternoon. There was a mass at the cathedral, the Metropolitan Cathedral of Buenos Aires, where we are working. The doors opened at 7:30 in the morning

and people have been coming to pay their tribute, to pray in silence and to honor Pope Francis' legacy.

He was loved by Argentinians. So many Argentinians have many memories with Pope Francis. Many met him in person when he was a priest, serving the poor

in the City of Buenos Aires. And as you can see, this is the entrance of the cathedral. The Metropolitan Cathedral of Buenos Aires where many

people, mourners have gathered two light candles, to bring pictures, to bring thank you letters to Pope Francis.

There are as well football badges, because as you know, Pope Francis has always been proud football fan. San Lorenzo was his team, his football

team. He was a supporter. He was a proud supporter. He always mentioned that in the interviews. That's why so many supporters brought not only

candles and flowers and pictures, but also jerseys, San Lorenzo jerseys. There's a flag, there are badges.

Also, many people think that that's a way to connect with Pope Francis besides what he did as a pope. Many people connect with Pope Francis

because he was a great supporter of San Lorenzo.

[14:40:00]

The cathedral organized its first mass at 8:30 local time in Argentina. And there are so many masses coming the next few hours for people, for mourners

to say goodbye to Pope Francis here in Buenos Aires.

FOSTER: Just reading here that he's asked for a very simple tomb for his funeral. Just a simple inscription of Franciscus, really reflecting this

very simple life that he lived and how he wants to be remembered as not someone who was very -- would live in the big palace and lived with all the

trappings of his position. He wanted to be a straightforward pope who anyone could connect with.

DOMINGUEZ: Well, we had the chance to talk to many people during the morning, and that's what they highlighted about Pope Francis. Many were

saying Pope Francis was a human being. Many were saying that, he was a human being. Besides being the pope the -- a world leader, he was a human

being and he was very humble. He wore the same pair of shoes in the Vatican as the ones he used to wear in Argentina while walking in very, very poor

neighborhoods in Buenos Aires where we used to -- where he used to work, we -- to serve for the poor. So, that's something that people highlighted

during the morning and we'll be highlighting during the -- these days.

FOSTER: OK. Cecilia Dominguez, thank you very much for joining us from Pope Francis' home country. We'll have more on the death of Pope Francis and

what's next for the papacy later. Up next, though, the U.S. defense secretary lashing out after finding himself embroiled in another Signal

chat scandal. We'll go live to Washington for the detail just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Let's get you up to date with some of the other big stories around the world today, because we're going to turn to what could be a mounting

national security disaster for the White House and a defiant response from the U.S. defense secretary.

Pete Hegseth is attacking some of his closest former advisers and the media after sources say he shared detailed military plans in a second Signal

chat. This one, including his wife, brother, and personal lawyer. The defense secretary is under increasing scrutiny after using the unsecured

app to discuss military strikes with cabinet officials last month.

[14:45:00]

Hegseth is slamming the new allegations as anonymous smears.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: This is what the media does. They take anonymous sources from disgruntled former employees, and then they try

to slash and burn people and ruin their reputations. Not going to work with me. Because we're changing the Defense Department, according to the

Pentagon back in the hands of war fighters. And anonymous smears from disgruntled former employees on old news, doesn't matter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Well, a short while ago, the White House press secretary said, President Trump stands strongly behind his defense secretary. CNN's Chief

National Security Correspondent Alex Marquardt joins me now. I mean, what - - do we know exactly -- he didn't admit to this chat, did he there? But what do we know of the truth of it?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Max, this certainly is adding more fuel to the fire for people who have argued that

Hegseth simply doesn't have the temperament or the experience to be the secretary of defense, certainly his judgment was questioned after the

revelations of the first Signal chat in which he put very specific attack plans about the intentions to strike the Houthis on March 15th.

What we know about this second Signal chat was, unlike the first one, he created this group and he created the group in the lead up to his

confirmation hearing and it has persisted since then. It has included his wife, who is not an employee of the Defense Department, his brother and his

personal lawyer who are. There are questions over who in that group of around a dozen, we understand, actually have security clearances. But it's

hard to look at those three characters right there on the screen and think that they had any reason to know about the strike that was coming up

against the Houthis.

Now, this comes at a very turbulent time in the Defense Department. There was something of a purge last week. Three senior officials who have been

close to Hegseth for years were fired, including a top confidant, a deputy chief of staff to Hegseth, and the chief of staff to the number two at the

Pentagon.

There was also a scathing op-ed that was written last night in Politico by the former press secretary to Hegseth. He himself, John Elliott, was not

fired. But in this op-ed, he talks about a full-blown meltdown at the Pentagon. He writes, it's been a month of total chaos at the Pentagon from

leaks of sensitive operational plans to a mass firings. The dysfunction is now a major distraction for the president who deserves better from his

senior leadership. President Donald Trump has a strong record of holding his top officials to account. Given that, it's hard to see Defense

Secretary Pete Hegseth remaining in his role for much longer.

But as you noted, Max, we have heard from the president today, President Trump still expressing support for his defense secretary. Here's what he

had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, are you concerned about the level of chaos and dysfunction that's being described at your Pentagon?

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: There's no dysfunction. Well, ask the Houthis how much dysfunction they have. There's none. Pete's doing a great job.

Just fake news. They just bring up stories. I guess it sounds like disgruntled employees. You know, he was put there to get rid of a lot of

bad people and that's what he's doing. So, you don't always have friends when you do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: Max, if Hegseth were to lose his job following all this reporting, President Trump could see it as giving the press a win, which of

course, he is loathed to do. The White House may not want to go through another combative, contentious confirmation hearing, which they certainly

had to for Hegseth the first time around.

But at the same time, if it becomes clear to President Trump that Hegseth's scandals are swirl -- continue to swirl around him, he may, at some point,

decide that it's simply not worth it. But for now, Hegseth does remain in his job with the president's support. Max.

FOSTER: OK. Alex, thank you so much for that update. U.S. stocks meanwhile tumbling after President Trump renewed his tirade against Fed Chairman

Jerome Powell, calling him a major loser and demanding that he lower interest rates immediately.

Let's go to New York and CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich. I mean, this is a real problem, isn't it, for the markets because the independence of the Central

Bank is so important.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, a major sell-off happening on Wall Street right now. You have the Dow down 1,200

points. You have the NASDAQ down more than 3.5 percent.

And so, there's sort of two things playing out right now. One, you have investors and traders realizing that this trade war and these negotiations

around this trade war may take a lot longer than expected. Japan and the United States has been negotiating for a while now, and they still haven't

heard, sort of a key tangible trade deal that has been reached with Japan, one of our key trading partners and allies.

So, now, you have investors thinking that, wow, OK, if Japan and the U.S. can't get a deal, what does that mean for the dozens of other countries

that were set to negotiate with? And so, they're expecting really a long- drawn-out process here.

[14:50:00]

And then, as you mentioned, Max, on the other side, you have President Trump on Truth Social this morning, essentially upping the ante on

criticizing the chair of the Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell.

Now, the Federal Reserve is a key independent body, not directed by Congress, not directed by the federal government. The Federal Reserve

really operates sort of as a safety net oftentimes for the U.S. economy. And so, when you have the president sort of trying to tell the Federal

Reserve what to do, lower interest rates or higher interest rates, and talking about the removal of the head of that agency, it makes investors

really worried. Because, ultimately, the Federal Reserve is there to act independently and to respond to what is happening in the economy.

And, Max, as you know, the trade war that is playing out right now, most economists agree it's only going to raise prices, and you have the Federal

Reserve there to try to combat inflation. But when you try to sort of meddle or int intervene from the federal government's perspective, it

really puts doubt in trader's minds about whether the Federal Reserve can really act independently and make choices that are for the better of the

whole U.S. economy.

But next month is when we will know what the Federal Reserve plans to do around interest rates. They're meeting in May. Jerome Powell has forecasted

that there's no real need to make any large-scale decisions around monetary policy. Of course, as we heard from the president today on Truth Social

though he would like to see, otherwise, he wants interest rates dropped. He believes that's better for everyday Americans, but ultimately, that is not

his decision. Max.

FOSTER: OK. Vanessa, thank you so much. A really big day on the markets and worth noting those numbers.

Pope Francis being remembered as well for many things. Amongst them, is his steadfast advocacy for migrants and refugees. After the break, we'll look

at his tireless work on their behalf.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Returning to our top story, the passing of Pope Francis, the 88- year-old pontiff dying this Easter Monday. He spent its final days participating in Easter services there at the Vatican. The Argentine born

to Italian parents became the first Latin American pope in 2013. He had recently endured serious respiratory illness that left him hospitalized for

weeks.

The Vatican confirming this hour that he died of a stroke and heart failure. The body of Pope Francis will lie in state ahead of his funeral.

The process to find a new pope to lead the more than 1 billion Catholics around the world is expected to begin several days after that.

[14:55:00]

Now, around the world, more than 1 billion Catholics are now in mourning. Pope Francis was the first pope, as I say, from Latin America. Mourners in

Buenos Aires, held mass there following news of his death.

That's the sound of the bells ringing in Paris at Notre-Dame Cathedral. Elsewhere in Europe, the faithful gathered at Cologne Cathedral in Germany

to light candles and offer prayers for the pope. Meanwhile, worshipers in the Spanish capital, Madrid, held a memorial mass at Almudena Cathedral.

And we leave you this hour with these pictures from earlier today of the Vatican, where the bells tolled in honor of a remarkable pope.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END